Unless McCain completely loses his broad appeal by watering down his maverick persona, I can't see him losing in 08' to anybody.

Hillary? Forget it.

Joe Biden? Sorry.

Bayh? Not a prayer.

The dems do have somebody who has a shot though. But the trouble is he may not even have ambitions to run.....

John Murtha

Think about it. McCain is Pro Iraq war, Murtha is Against.

Giuliani

Ah-nold (assuming legislation passes)

The Antichrist

The republican party (unless desperate) will do all in its power to see that McCain will not be their candidate. They like him because he helps the party with a few swing votes, but that's also his problem. He is not republican enough for them, and they wont want him.

Idealy though, he runs with Feingold (Democratic Senator from Wisconsin) who he's good friends with and originally proposed his campaign finance reform with. They would be a great combination and despite my liberal tendencies I would easily for for McCain as president if Feindgold were with him.

I think you are misreading the shift in the Republican party.

Bush and that faction has ALIENATED the party. BIG TIME. They are secretly wishing they went with McCain.

Also if you look at pure philosophy, it is MCCAIN who is more Republican than Bush, or at least what the Republicans SHOULD BE.

The faction of the party that supported Gingrich are gonna back McCain.

Gingrich himself has been VERY vocal in his criticsms of the president. Not that the media has been paying attention to him....

I think you are misreading the shift in the Republican party.

Bush and that faction has ALIENATED the party. BIG TIME. They are secretly wishing they went with McCain.

Also if you look at pure philosophy, it is MCCAIN who is more Republican than Bush, or at least what the Republicans SHOULD BE.

The republican party is a contradiction in itself. What the party SHOULD BE and ARE, are 2 completely different things.

Bush's campaign proved you can still brainwash the american public by waving a cross in front of their face and bringing up non-issues in an election year to gain the "moral majority." The republican party in its current state doesn't want a Do Something president in McCain... they merely want a puppet as Bush is.

bill frist, senate majority leader, very republican but a proponent of stem cell research. just barely liberal enough to pull a swing vote, but maybe not a big enough name.

bill frist, senate majority leader, very republican but a proponent of stem cell research. just barely liberal enough to pull a swing vote, but maybe not a big enough name.

Also has a few scandals to his name unfortunately.

He is too close to Bush to be an attractive candidate.

Unless McCain completely loses his broad appeal by watering down his maverick persona, I can't see him losing in 08' to anybody.

Hillary? Forget it.

Joe Biden? Sorry.

Bayh? Not a prayer.

The dems do have somebody who has a shot though. But the trouble is he may not even have ambitions to run.....

John Murtha

Think about it. McCain is Pro Iraq war, Murtha is Against.

Rudy G and Mitt Romney are other potential candidates that could beat McCain

The republican party is a contradiction in itself. What the party SHOULD BE and ARE, are 2 completely different things.

Bush's campaign proved you can still brainwash the american public by waving a cross in front of their face and bringing up non-issues in an election year to gain the "moral majority." The republican party in its current state doesn't want a Do Something president in McCain... they merely want a puppet as Bush is.

More important is they want a candidate who will WIN. McCain will. Anybody who GW endorses will probably be hurt. We will know in the 06' elections if this is true.

Rudy G and Mitt Romney are other potential candidates that could beat McCain

Giuliani is not as strong as people think. I like Giuliani and all, but he just is not as strong as McCain.

Mitt Romney I have no idea who he is.

PA..POOSE......PA...........POOSE!!!!.

More important is they want a candidate who will WIN. McCain will. Anybody who GW endorses will probably be hurt. We will know in the 06' elections if this is true.

You're assuming that the average american citizen (I should say non-average by voter turnout really...) will learn from their mistake. They wont. People are dumb. They will continue to vote for "their" political party until it ****s them or they die.

Don't get me wrong... I'd like to believe you... but my better judgment disagrees.

Giuliani is not as strong as people think. I like Giuliani and all, but he just is not as strong as McCain.

Mitt Romney I have no idea who he is.

Mitt Romney is the governor of mass, a republican whos a good guy, but im not sure if hes running for pres or not. he was also in charge of the 2002 olympic games in salt lake
the guy is a republican who won the gubernatorial race in mass, peraps the most liberal state in the us. hes got a shot if he runs.

You're assuming that the average american citizen (I should say non-average by voter turnout really...) will learn from their mistake. They wont. People are dumb. They will continue to vote for "their" political party until it ****s them or they die.

Don't get me wrong... I'd like to believe you... but my better judgment disagrees.


Well, I can't say there isn't evidence to voters being stupid.

However, I think that McCain's obstacle is not the voters but his own party, like in the last election. But because the people who opposed him are losing power anyways, that may not be an insurmountable obstacle at all....

Well, I can't say there isn't evidence to voters being stupid.

However, I think that McCain's obstacle is not the voters but his own party, like in the last election. But because the people who opposed him are losing power anyways, that may not be an insurmountable obstacle at all....

Oh, I agree whole heartedly. THe general public will be much more likely to vote for McCain than any other republican. Myself, as a liberal for the most part, would vote for McCain simply because I trust his judgment and his politics for the most part... regardless of party. I feel that the Republican will do all in its power to smear his name in the primaries so he doesn't win. If he did, then they'd be forced to obviously.

McCain could get the nomination simply because, as much as the Republicans associate themselves with the rural religious right, they would drop them in a second if it meant that they could curry more favour with the centrist upper middle-class element. That's not a knock specifically on the Republicans...this is exactly what Bill Clinton did to ensure himself of a second term.

If you had McCain running a lot of moderate Democrats would vote for him. This would make the difference in a lot of key states like California. If that's the case then who the **** cares how they vote in Nebraska? Not trying to be cruel here, just spelling things out exactly as they are. And the thing that in Nebraska and a lot of those other red states they'll vote for McCain anyway because they'll have no other better choice.

The only two things in McCain's way right now are opposition in his own party due to internal power struggles and the ongoing backlash against the Republican party. If their fortunes keep on sinking for the next few years a lot of voters might go with an "anyone but the Republican" attitude when they vote, no matter who is actually running.

Oh, I agree whole heartedly. THe general public will be much more likely to vote for McCain than any other republican. Myself, as a liberal for the most part, would vote for McCain simply because I trust his judgment and his politics for the most part... regardless of party. I feel that the Republican will do all in its power to smear his name in the primaries so he doesn't win. If he did, then they'd be forced to obviously.

I tend to be more conservative, and would lean towards romney, but thats just bc hes gov. of my home state and i know alot about him. McCain should garner alot of votes because hes more central than any other candidate

**** IT! I'm running for president in 08" and if I win every family will be given a midget and a hooker to do with what they please.

Unless McCain completely loses his broad appeal by watering down his maverick persona, I can't see him losing in 08' to anybody.

Hillary? Forget it.

Joe Biden? Sorry.

Bayh? Not a prayer.

The dems do have somebody who has a shot though. But the trouble is he may not even have ambitions to run.....

John Murtha

Think about it. McCain is Pro Iraq war, Murtha is Against.

Is this a joke? The very reason mcCain might lose is due to his maverickism. Bayh would have a shot of politics went on merit alone, but obviously they do not. I wish he would win though.

Hillary has a small chance. Rudy has a shot. I don't know what might happen with Al Gore and Cond Rice. Big question marks there. Possible threats.

Is this a joke? The very reason mcCain might lose is due to his maverickism. Bayh would have a shot of politics went on merit alone, but obviously they do not. I wish he would win though.

Hillary has a small chance. Rudy has a shot. I don't know what might happen with Al Gore and Cond Rice. Big question marks there. Possible threats.

His maverickism might cost him the nomination, but it he got the nod it would be a huge asset. He would draw in most of the votes from the centre, including a large proportion of moderate Dems, plus the Republican vote, because even those that were upset that he was nominated would likely vote for him in the end. However if he loses his maverick appeal he will lose those moderate Dem votes, and the way things are going with the poll numbers they could make the difference in the next election.

i think it's safe to say that John McCain is the next president of the United States in 2009.

http://indian.senate.gov/mccain.jpg

One thing is sure it can't get any worse than that little ass pimple Bush....................

I think you are misreading the shift in the Republican party.

Bush and that faction has ALIENATED the party. BIG TIME. They are secretly wishing they went with McCain.

Also if you look at pure philosophy, it is MCCAIN who is more Republican than Bush, or at least what the Republicans SHOULD BE.


I think the GOP has finally come around and understand that Bush is not up for reelection and they are so I think your right when you talk about a shift...now how quickly can a shift like this take place throughout the party?


I also believe that a candidate like John McCain is going to have a very tough time getting the "church" vote that W got (McCain wont get it-people filled out absentees at church in enormous numbers). Sure McCain may garner more support from moderates on both sides but he will not get the hardliners who would rather die then live in a country that is considered socially liberal or at the very least take a turn in that direction.

The party is shifting (it has no choice) but it wont happen in 1 election cycle-christian conservatives are going to stay home on election night in larger numbers then they did in 04-say what you want this is still the base.

Plus with McCain being the pro-war candidate how is this war going to get better in the next three years? I can only envision things staying the same and most likely getting worse-if we are still over their I gotta believe that a pro-war candidate like McCain is going to struggle?

The Amercian people are already sick and tired of this war how are things going to change their minds? I dont care if JESUS was leading the country the IRAQ mess is unfixable in my estimation and in 3 years you are gonna be hardpressed to find Amercians who dont understand that.

**** IT! I'm running for president in 08" and if I win every family will be given a midget and a hooker to do with what they please.
you got my vote.

I like McCain a lot.
I voted for him in the Florida primaries back in 2000 but it just didnt happen. :(

I think the GOP has finally come around and understand that Bush is not up for reelection and they are so I think your right when you talk about a shift...now how quickly can a shift like this take place throughout the party?


I also believe that a candidate like John McCain is going to have a very tough time getting the "church" vote that W got (McCain wont get it-people filled out absentees at church in enormous numbers). Sure McCain may garner more support from moderates on both sides but he will not get the hardliners who would rather die then live in a country that is considered socially liberal or at the very least take a turn in that direction.

The party is shifting (it has no choice) but it wont happen in 1 election cycle-christian conservatives are going to stay home on election night in larger numbers then they did in 04-say what you want this is still the base.

Plus with McCain being the pro-war candidate how is this war going to get better in the next three years? I can only envision things staying the same and most likely getting worse-if we are still over their I gotta believe that a pro-war candidate like McCain is going to struggle?

The Amercian people are already sick and tired of this war how are things going to change their minds? I dont care if JESUS was leading the country the IRAQ mess is unfixable in my estimation and in 3 years you are gonna be hardpressed to find Amercians who dont understand that.

Though I find it a bit distasteful he has done a bit to court the church vote. For one thing, he does not oppose Intelligent Design being taught. He is not opposed to stem cell research either. I think he is a moderate "pro lifer" as well.

You're assuming that the average american citizen (I should say non-average by voter turnout really...) will learn from their mistake. They wont. People are dumb. They will continue to vote for "their" political party until it ****s them or they die.

Don't get me wrong... I'd like to believe you... but my better judgment disagrees.


good karma for this statement people are lemmings in my opinion!

But I cannot stand the deomcrats they are so vocal about hating people and insulted the republicans yet they have no idea how they look!

I am non particant! I have no political party.

I am really sick of this back and force stuff especially sick of hearing libral dems with their arnold and bush smashing but yet when you ask them well then mr smarty pants what is your plan they get quiet and cannot answer all they know how to do is back their party and ***** at anyone who is republican.

Not hating on dems but I notice they love to bash people and they tend to have no class.

Those are far left wingers you're talking about and the bashing is two way, except you see more liberal bashing because of Bush's fallacies that are coming to light.

But its true, people will vote for political party rather than principals because NO WAY IN HELL WOULD BUSH HAVE BEEN REELECTED.

People are stupid. What changed in the last 6 months for people to start being against the war that was different a year or two years ago?
good karma for this statement people are lemmings in my opinion!

But I cannot stand the deomcrats they are so vocal about hating people and insulted the republicans yet they have no idea how they look!

I am non particant! I have no political party.

I am really sick of this back and force stuff especially sick of hearing libral dems with their arnold and bush smashing but yet when you ask them well then mr smarty pants what is your plan they get quiet and cannot answer all they know how to do is back their party and ***** at anyone who is republican.

Not hating on dems but I notice they love to bash people and they tend to have no class.

Though I find it a bit distasteful he has done a bit to court the church vote. For one thing, he does not oppose Intelligent Design being taught. He is not opposed to stem cell research either. I think he is a moderate "pro lifer" as well.


1 thing is for sure he was a good little soldier at the convention when he stood up their and endorsed a man he probably loathed.

He did this for the 08 run I have no doubt-as for his courting of the church vote...sure he may sway a few of them but not like GW, GW could **** a three year old on the white house lawn and these Christconservs would look right past it, they love his ass and McCain will need to make a lot fo votes up elsewhere.

As for the war...it is gonna be huge, what will McCain say after 3 more years of **** in Iraq? Is he gonna propose sending in more troops? Being Pro-war in my estimation is trouble, Lukahn how do you think he spins this in order to gain support from the moderates who are not into this war?

How does he sell this war after 6 years of death and ****?

good karma for this statement people are lemmings in my opinion!

But I cannot stand the deomcrats they are so vocal about hating people and insulted the republicans yet they have no idea how they look!

I am non particant! I have no political party.

I am really sick of this back and force stuff especially sick of hearing libral dems with their arnold and bush smashing but yet when you ask them well then mr smarty pants what is your plan they get quiet and cannot answer all they know how to do is back their party and ***** at anyone who is republican.

Not hating on dems but I notice they love to bash people and they tend to have no class.

Liberals have no class...I love generalizations they are so accurate arent they!

The answer from the majority of the dems would have been to never get in the war in the first place and as for now your right everyone is quiet and has no plan but the dems should not be singled out the Republicans have no plan either.

We are all ****ed with this war-we are gonna leave at some point and we are gonna leave without accomplishing our goals...what difference does it make if we leave now and not accomplish our goals or in 5 years without accomplishing our goals?

The point is we are gonna leave...but your right dems dont have a plan your only mistake in the post was you stopped at dems, just because republicans act like they have a plan does not mean they do.

After all wasnt this MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?

I like McCain a lot.
I voted for him in the Florida primaries back in 2000 but it just didnt happen. :(

Was that before Bush tried to make him look CRAZY? GWB is one of the dirtiest polticians around. He really had people believing that McCain was LOONEY for being in a POW camp. It would be funny to see the same Republicans who turned their back on McCain in 2000 (all indications pointed to McCain running away with the Republican stamp of approval until Dubya and his flunkies started that rumor) turn out to vote for him in 2008.

He is a strong choice though, and would be very tough to beat in the primaries or in the actual election. What do you guys think of Barrack Obama (Senator from Illinois)? I know the racial thing would come into play, but people are saying Condi so why not!?

Was that before Bush tried to make him look CRAZY? GWB is one of the dirtiest polticians around. He really had people believing that McCain was LOONEY for being in a POW camp. It would be funny to see the same Republicans who turned their back on McCain in 2000 (all indications pointed to McCain running away with the Republican stamp of approval until Dubya and his flunkies started that rumor) turn out to vote for him in 2008.

He is a strong choice though, and would be very tough to beat in the primaries or in the actual election. What do you guys think of Barrack Obama (Senator from Illinois)? I know the racial thing would come into play, but people are saying Condi so why not!?


Obama would have a better shot to run in 2012 in my opinion...there are still A LOT of people who aren't ready or will never be ready to have a president of color.

Sad but true. As for the thread topic...I think McCain is the strongest choice option right now. I think he'll win.

Was that before Bush tried to make him look CRAZY? GWB is one of the dirtiest polticians around. He really had people believing that McCain was LOONEY for being in a POW camp. It would be funny to see the same Republicans who turned their back on McCain in 2000 (all indications pointed to McCain running away with the Republican stamp of approval until Dubya and his flunkies started that rumor) turn out to vote for him in 2008.

He is a strong choice though, and would be very tough to beat in the primaries or in the actual election. What do you guys think of Barrack Obama (Senator from Illinois)? I know the racial thing would come into play, but people are saying Condi so why not!?

Can you imagine how difficult it was for McCain to get up and endorse Bush for president after what his team (ROVE) did to him?

Had to be damn tough, but like I said earlier he is one lyal solider.

Agree with Gringo it is too early for Barack, Im also looking forward to the day that Harold Ford Jr. runs-there is no better prospect out there than Mr. Ford!

Kwame Kilpatrick for PREZ 2008 MY NINJA

1 thing is for sure he was a good little soldier at the convention when he stood up their and endorsed a man he probably loathed.

He did this for the 08 run I have no doubt-as for his courting of the church vote...sure he may sway a few of them but not like GW, GW could **** a three year old on the white house lawn and these Christconservs would look right past it, they love his ass and McCain will need to make a lot fo votes up elsewhere.

As for the war...it is gonna be huge, what will McCain say after 3 more years of **** in Iraq? Is he gonna propose sending in more troops? Being Pro-war in my estimation is trouble, Lukahn how do you think he spins this in order to gain support from the moderates who are not into this war?

How does he sell this war after 6 years of death and ****?

WEll, the way he HAS been spinning it is, "I will get the job done right." He will probably try to send more troops to do so. And who knows, if he is the one making the decisions it just may work out......his judgement is more trustworthy in my opinion.

In the long run, it is probably best if we for a short time did have more troops as long as we know **** was gonna get done right.

Liberals have no class...I love generalizations they are so accurate arent they!

The answer from the majority of the dems would have been to never get in the war in the first place and as for now your right everyone is quiet and has no plan but the dems should not be singled out the Republicans have no plan either.

We are all ****ed with this war-we are gonna leave at some point and we are gonna leave without accomplishing our goals...what difference does it make if we leave now and not accomplish our goals or in 5 years without accomplishing our goals?

The point is we are gonna leave...but your right dems dont have a plan your only mistake in the post was you stopped at dems, just because republicans act like they have a plan does not mean they do.

After all wasnt this MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?

As far as the plan goes, Dems oughta defer to Murtha. He at least SOUNDS like he has a clue. Given his background, he probably does.

That was great seeing the Replubicans back away from attacking Murtha.

Ownage.
As far as the plan goes, Dems oughta defer to Murtha. He at least SOUNDS like he has a clue. Given his background, he probably does.

What do you guys think of Barrack Obama (Senator from Illinois)? I know the racial thing would come into play, but people are saying Condi so why not!?

I like him at the DNC in 2004. He is well spoken and he gave a very powerful speech. Other than that speech though, I know very little about him or how he has been doing since elected to the Senate - after all he has only been in office for about one year.

He does have things going against him to be elected President: Race and age (he might have to grey his hair like Clinton;) ) I know he is old enough to run but he looks much younger than he is.

I would like to see each ticket have a black american running that way we could overcome this hurdle in american polotics - no matter what party ends up winning.

i think it's safe to say that John McCain is the next president president of the United States in 2009.

http://indian.senate.gov/mccain.jpg

its absolutly not safe to say that McCain will be the next president, its questionable if he will even get through the primaries

I like him at the DNC in 2004. He is well spoken and he gave a very powerful speech. Other than that speech though, I know very little about him or how he has been doing since elected to the Senate - after all he has only been in office for about one year.

He does have things going against him to be elected President: Race and age (he might have to grey his hair like Clinton;) ) I know he is old enough to run but he looks much younger than he is.

I would like to see each ticket have a black american running that way we could overcome this hurdle in american polotics - no matter what party ends up winning.

I like him. But he needs to sit the 08' election out. Just be really vocal like he has been. By 12' he will be a strong candidate.

WEll, the way he HAS been spinning it is, "I will get the job done right." He will probably try to send more troops to do so. And who knows, if he is the one making the decisions it just may work out......his judgement is more trustworthy in my opinion.

In the long run, it is probably best if we for a short time did have more troops as long as we know **** was gonna get done right.


I understand what your saying but do you think after three more years of this occupation that the Amercian people are gonna say "ok now lets do this thing right with McCain" or are they gonna say "lets cut our loses and get the **** out of here" (In three years time this war is gonna make people puke)

If it was as easy as just throwing more troops in Iraq dont you think W would have done that by now (I do-its not like he needs to win reelection))? I dont care how many troops we have in there the second we leave that country is up for grabs in a sense.

McCain certainly has credibility but I dont think anyone in the world credibility or not has a plan to clean up Iraq because it is a "cant win" job.

So Howard Dean is being called YELLOW/nuts because he has come out and said we cant win but what if he is right? No one Republican or Democrat has put forth a plan that you can really say "ok I like the sound of that" ...people are not quite ready to listen to Dean but I think he is 100% right, just like when Adrian told Rocky "you cant win" Dean is telling us now except this mess in Iraq appears to be even tougher then Ivan Drago!

In 3 years time this war turned occupation is gonna make people puke and I believe at some point the vast majority of the American people are gonna side with the wild liberal from Vermont!

Scap

In all likelihood, the Bush administration is gonna begin pulling out of Iraq themselves.

If we are pulled out completely by 08' I doubt McCain is gonna recommit troops.

If the troop presence is scaled back significantly and the situation is somewhat stable, he may keep it that way.

Scap, it's sad to see you take such a defeatist attitude on the war in Iraq. There's plenty to be optimistic about with the elections coming up. If only the media would report it more often. There are plenty of reasons the war in iraq can end successfully.

Also, I wouldn't describe McCain as some socially liberal person at all, which is good if you ask me. He's a good nod.

As far as Murtha goes...this dude does not have a clue. Please. The man is just remembering how scared he was in war and feels sorry for the young guys dying. 2140 troops, while nothing to sneeze at, is not a large number at all. Re-enlistment is high, and that wouldn't be true if the Iraq War was as bad as defeatists would have you believe. There may be a time when we need to just get out, but that time isn't here yet. Thank God McCain realizes that.

Scap, it's sad to see you take such a defeatist attitude on the war in Iraq. There's plenty to be optimistic about with the elections coming up. If only the media would report it more often. There are plenty of reasons the war in iraq can end successfully.

Also, I wouldn't describe McCain as some socially liberal person at all, which is good if you ask me. He's a good nod.

As far as Murtha goes...this dude does not have a clue. Please. The man is just remembering how scared he was in war and feels sorry for the young guys dying. 2140 troops, while nothing to sneeze at, is not a large number at all. Re-enlistment is high, and that wouldn't be true if the Iraq War was as bad as defeatists would have you believe. There may be a time when we need to just get out, but that time isn't here yet. Thank God McCain realizes that.

Super,

This country has had alot of elections so far, it seems like there is a new election coming up every week......what do we have to show for it? Yes, the people are voting, but will the body they elect have any power without us backing them up?

As far as Murtha goes...this dude does not have a clue. Please. The man is just remembering how scared he was in war and feels sorry for the young guys dying. 2140 troops, while nothing to sneeze at, is not a large number at all. Re-enlistment is high, and that wouldn't be true if the Iraq War was as bad as defeatists would have you believe. There may be a time when we need to just get out, but that time isn't here yet. Thank God McCain realizes that.

Woah, Murtha is a decorated vietnam vet. He is more Hawkish than many Republicans. You are barking up the wrong tree here.
What exactly has he said that indicates to you he does not have a clue?

Super,

This country has had alot of elections so far, it seems like there is a new election coming up every week......what do we have to show for it? Yes, the people are voting, but will the body they elect have any power without us backing them up?

And? The elections coming up are still very important and potentially very promising. I'm sure there have been elections every week... :rolleyes:

Time will tell what power they hold, but we cannot just leave because there's a chance it won't work out.

Woah, Murtha is a decorated vietnam vet. He is more Hawkish than many Republicans. You are barking up the wrong tree here.
What exactly has he said that indicates to you he does not have a clue?

Murtha is not hawkish just because he is a war vet. And what does that have to do with anything anyway? The dude is obviously a sentamentalist and his emotions are swaying his opinion. His negative comments... ie "flawed policy wrapped in illusion." Yeah, I bet that helps his soldier buddies in Iraq. Also it's just in direct contrast to what others have said who have visited Iraq. The dude is just plain scared, end of story.

Murtha is not hawkish just because he is a war vet. And what does that have to do with anything anyway? The dude is obviously a sentamentalist and his emotions are swaying his opinion. His negative comments... ie "flawed policy wrapped in illusion." Yeah, I bet that helps his soldier buddies in Iraq. Also it's just in direct contrast to what others have said who have visited Iraq. The dude is just plain scared, end of story.

Research before you make statements like that. Murtha is considered Hawkish because he is ALWAYS in favor of military action and votes in the affirmative for EVERY military spending bill that he comes across. He ROUTINELY breaks from the democratic party ranks on military issues. If you want specific bills I can provide them.

http://www.ontheissues.org

Contains voting records for Murtha and other Senators.

Research before you make statements like that. Murtha is considered Hawkish because he is ALWAYS in favor of military action and votes in the affirmative for EVERY military spending bill that he comes across. He ROUTINELY breaks from the democratic party ranks on military issues. If you want specific bills I can provide them.

Very presumptous. I visit on the issues all the time. One of my favorite sites. Still doesn't meant he's hawkish. A true "hawk" wouldn't be saying the things he is saying right now. Also, just because you perceive him as a hawk doesn't make his comments on the war any more legit.

Very presumptous. I visit on the issues all the time. One of my favorite sites. Still doesn't meant he's hawkish. A true "hawk" wouldn't be saying the things he is saying right now. Also, just because you perceive him as a hawk doesn't make his comments on the war any more legit.

Maybe he just changed his mind in this case because overwhelming evidence shows that now is not the time to be hawkish. Practical people come to conclusions like this all the time.

And yes, I was being a bit presumptous. I had assumed that anyone who saw his voting record would be of the opinion that he is extremely pro military.

So in your opinion, to be Hawkish, that person has to be in favor of a war they feel is not going well? This makes very little sense to me.

No, a hawk is a fool who just favors war period. Someone who cares about military families and votes bills that give them more money is not a hawk to me.

I don't agree that Pro-military and hawk are the same thing.

No, a hawk is a fool who just favors war period. Someone who cares about military families and votes bills that give them more money is not a hawk to me.

Pro-military and pro-hawk are not the same thing.

Okay, for me they are the same thing.

Since Murtha is no fool in my opinion, he does not fit your definition of Hawk.

He is however, pro military. Do you really think he is against this war because he was "scared" in vietnam while winning his bronze star and cross of galantry? Especially in light of the fact that he was initially in favor of the war in Iraq?

Scap, it's sad to see you take such a defeatist attitude on the war in Iraq. There's plenty to be optimistic about with the elections coming up. If only the media would report it more often. There are plenty of reasons the war in iraq can end successfully.

Also, I wouldn't describe McCain as some socially liberal person at all, which is good if you ask me. He's a good nod.

As far as Murtha goes...this dude does not have a clue. Please. The man is just remembering how scared he was in war and feels sorry for the young guys dying. 2140 troops, while nothing to sneeze at, is not a large number at all. Re-enlistment is high, and that wouldn't be true if the Iraq War was as bad as defeatists would have you believe. There may be a time when we need to just get out, but that time isn't here yet. Thank God McCain realizes that.


I call it like I see it!

Ya know you hear everybody saying these days in the media "whats your plan congressmen, whats your plan mr. senator, how do we fix Iraq"...well what do you hear?

You hear the same **** from both Republicans and Democrats, some want to pull out and cut our lossses, some want to put more troops in their, some want a timetable for withdrawl...but the point is you hear the same **** over and over and over-there is no plan we havent heard and too my ears none of them sound like they have a prayer to work-again I call it like I see it (what new unique idea have we heard for Iraq?).

Lets say we stay there for 5 more years and how many billion per day? Then we leave-do you believe that the factions in that country are gonna learn to live in peace? Is Iran just gonna chill out and let their neighbors be? Al Queda is gonna have a field day with a state as Bush likes to say "the size of California"....what the hell is gonna happen when we leave? Any ideas?

Are we gonna simply be able to say, "at least we gave it a good effort"...Superlightweight-what do you think we can achieve over there? What are your expectations? I know what the administration set out to do in the beginning and what they are hoping for now are completely different-but again what are your expectations of this and if you thought that this was a hopless effort would you simply keep it to yourself because you didnt want to sound soft or weak-would you actually call it like you see it or would that sound far to YELLOW?

How can we on 1 hand go into a a war that the president now admits was based off of FALSE/INCORRECT/BULL**** intelligence but on the other hand he says that this war was still the right move?

How does that makes sense?


Why was WAR the first option of this administration and not the last? Why do you call Murtha clueless? Who would you rather walk down an alley with Bush and Cheney and Rummy and Wolfie or Kerry, Murtha and Cleeland, you dont have to answer that because youd be a fool to take the neocon side!


Again again again I call it like I see it and if I saw light at the end of the tunnel I would certainly say so-in fact I read about success stories on a weekly basis in the USA today, hell Ive been looking for some success stories on FOX news but I dont think they have covered the War or the adminsitration in about a month-and that is no joke!

Off the subject just a tad here Superlightweight but I have a question for you...had Al Gore have been president and then 9/11 occurred and Al basically promised us Bin LAden's head and then 5 years later we still didnt have it and a very good case can be made (hell a slam dunk case) that we did not do everything in our power to get him what would you say about AL, the libs and their ability to protect America?

Why dont we have him, why? Why dont we have him?

But I digress-this is an unwinnable war based upon the expectations that were stated in the beginning-we are ****ed and yes sir the truth hurts!

Liberals have no class...I love generalizations they are so accurate arent they!

The answer from the majority of the dems would have been to never get in the war in the first place and as for now your right everyone is quiet and has no plan but the dems should not be singled out the Republicans have no plan either.

We are all ****ed with this war-we are gonna leave at some point and we are gonna leave without accomplishing our goals...what difference does it make if we leave now and not accomplish our goals or in 5 years without accomplishing our goals?

The point is we are gonna leave...but your right dems dont have a plan your only mistake in the post was you stopped at dems, just because republicans act like they have a plan does not mean they do.

After all wasnt this MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?
WTF are y'all talkin' about. Do any of you know what time it is or day, year, etc.. "The Plan" has been laid out in front of us from the very beginning. Just to refresh your guys' memory here was GW and Cheney's plan

Step 1. Elbow our way into Iraq
Step 2. Secure oil fields
Step 3. Give out contracts to our "Rich Boy Network"
Step 4. Collect our dough
Step 5. Pat each other on the back while we sit in the boardroom
with our cronies laughing, bull*****ting, smoking some
communist made cigars while counting our dough.

Step 6. Laugh nonstop at the middle-class idiots that put us in
office.

Step 7. Repeat Step 4,5,and 6.

Now folks, where in this plan does it include "liberating the Iraqi people". It doesn't get any clearer, Bush might as well come out on National T.V. and start playing that chorus to that rap song "Hey stupid, hey stupid...(lol)

WTF are y'all talkin' about. Do any of you know what time it is or day, year, etc.. "The Plan" has been laid out in front of us from the very beginning. Just to refresh your guys' memory here was GW and Cheney's plan

Step 1. Elbow our way into Iraq
Step 2. Secure oil fields
Step 3. Give out contracts to our "Rich Boy Network"
Step 4. Collect our dough
Step 5. Pat each other on the back while we sit in the boardroom
with our cronies laughing, bull*****ting, smoking some
communist made cigars while counting our dough.

Step 6. Laugh nonstop at the middle-class idiots that put us in
office.

Step 7. Repeat Step 4,5,and 6.

Now folks, where in this plan does it include "liberating the Iraqi people". It doesn't get any clearer, Bush might as well come out on National T.V. and start playing that chorus to that rap song "Hey stupid, hey stupid...(lol)


Im not 1 of these idealogues that is going to slam the administration to slam it but you do make a little sense.

I doubt we would have ever considered going into Iraq if they held 25% of the worlds corn.

Im not 1 of these idealogues that is going to slam the administration to slam it but you do make a little sense.

I doubt we would have ever considered going into Iraq if they held 25% of the worlds corn.
A little sense... at least I have a little, unfortunately these days people just don't have any at all. I mean I generally don't give a ***** about the Presidential elections, I'd vote in local elections 'cause it's about the "popular vote", anyhow up there in D.C. it's nothing but one huge fraternity.

Too drunk to post anything meaningful......but not to drunk to want to bump this thread.

Do you really think he is against this war because he was "scared" in vietnam while winning his bronze star and cross of galantry? Especially in light of the fact that he was initially in favor of the war in Iraq?

That has nothing to do with what I mean. Murtha knows how scary war is, and as a result is feeling sentamentalism for the young soldiers, which is erring his judgement.

Murtha was also the one who wanted Clinton out of Somalia, and when we got out as a partial result of Murtha's bantering, Osama said this was proof we are a paper tiger. Leaving Iraq is a mistake.

Scap...I believe we can accomplish a lot and we already have accomplished some very good things. Many Iraqi's feel good about the direction the country is going. If it is **** in 2007, then leave. For now we stay.

That has nothing to do with what I mean. Murtha knows how scary war is, and as a result is feeling sentamentalism for the young soldiers, which is erring his judgement.

Murtha was also the one who wanted Clinton out of Somalia, and when we got out as a partial result of Murtha's bantering, Osama said this was proof we are a paper tiger. Leaving Iraq is a mistake.

Scap...I believe we can accomplish a lot and we already have accomplished some very good things. Many Iraqi's feel good about the direction the country is going. If it is **** in 2007, then leave. For now we stay.

Fair enough...is my opinion about the war being unwinnable still sad though?

Oh if you like tell me who you would rather walk down the alley with?

That has nothing to do with what I mean. Murtha knows how scary war is, and as a result is feeling sentamentalism for the young soldiers, which is erring his judgement.

Murtha was also the one who wanted Clinton out of Somalia, and when we got out as a partial result of Murtha's bantering, Osama said this was proof we are a paper tiger. Leaving Iraq is a mistake.

Scap...I believe we can accomplish a lot and we already have accomplished some very good things. Many Iraqi's feel good about the direction the country is going. If it is **** in 2007, then leave. For now we stay.

You are really going to site something 12 years ago as evidence that Murtha has some sort of compassionate bias? Murtha was one of many who were urging us to pull out of Somalia. EVEN WHEN MURTHA VOTED TO GO INTO IRAQ IN THE FIRST PLACE?

You are really going to site something 12 years ago as evidence that Murtha has some sort of compassionate bias? Murtha was one of many who were urging us to pull out of Somalia. EVEN WHEN MURTHA VOTED TO GO INTO IRAQ IN THE FIRST PLACE?

And? He was still Murtha 12 years last I checked. So what if Murtha voted to go into Iraq in the 1st place? Is that somehow the end all of the issue? That doesn't stop him from being overcome by compassion for young kids at his old sentamental age.

Good for Murtha if he was "one of many". There are lots of Iraqi War detractors as well. Just cuz everyone's doin it that doesn't make it the best option.

And? He was still Murtha 12 years last I checked. So what if Murtha voted to go into Iraq in the 1st place? Is that somehow the end all of the issue? That doesn't stop him from being overcome by compassion for young kids at his old sentamental age.

Good for Murtha if he was "one of many". There are lots of Iraqi War detractors as well. Just cuz everyone's doin it that doesn't make it the best option.

Well I see we are at an impasse. Oh well. No big deal.

<img src="http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/december2006/151206mccain.jpg">

McCain Bill Is Lethal Injection For Internet Freedom

Republican Senator John McCain has introduced legislation that would fine blogs up to $300,000 for offensive statements, photos and videos posted by visitors on comment boards, effectively nixing the open exchange of ideas on the Internet, providing a lethal injection for unrestrained opinion, and acting as the latest attack tool to chill freedom of speech on the world wide web.

<a href="http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2006/151206mccainbill.htm">http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2006/151206mccainbill.htm</a>

I thought to win an election this time around you would pretty much be anti-iraq war not for it.

I thought to win an election this time around you would pretty much be anti-iraq war not for it.
I still don't trust the American public to elect a black man or a woman - so if Obama or Clinton goes up against McCain, all bets are off...

Vote fro "truthiness"!

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/N9ntyFoGTO/220px-John_stewart.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/N9ntyFoGTO/SC3.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/N9ntyFoGTO/BT-stewartcolbert.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/N9ntyFoGTO/sb08.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/N9ntyFoGTO/11_1.jpg

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I'd like to, but I'm afraid my vote is taken:

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5180/b34fcca7e9nl0.gif" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>

http://www.myspace.com/stanhope08

The thing is McCain will have trouble in the Republican primaries.

Obama. Nuff Said.

Obama. Nuff Said.
No way Obama is getting elected. America isn't ready for a black or woman president, sad but true...sorry son. If the nations mentality wasn't like this I would be voting for Clinton though.

No way Obama is getting elected. America isn't ready for a black or woman president, sad but true...sorry son. If the nations mentality wasn't like this I would be voting for Clinton though.

People need to look past colors and look at what actually counts. I wish Gore won his race..That dude is a genius with his take on global warming. Had to watch him in class, damn he woulda done a better job than bush..

People need to look past colors and look at what actually counts. I wish Gore won his race..That dude is a genius with his take on global warming. Had to watch him in class, damn he woulda done a better job than bush..
Definetly, I give it probably another 15 years until we are past that. I honestly believe that If Gore would have been in office he wouldn't of looked passed that report that said Al Quaida was planning to attack. The Clinton admin. had a weekly briefing on Osama and he would have known to look into it right away...How George Bush could have shrugged off such a report I do not know.
I honestly believe 9/11 would not have happened if he was in power though.

I think you are misreading the shift in the Republican party.

Bush and that faction has ALIENATED the party. BIG TIME. They are secretly wishing they went with McCain

I voted for him in the 2000 primary but he lots..................

Obama. Nuff Said.

I like him but I dont think he has what it takes.....yet.