I believe Trinidad has successfully carried his power from weight to weight while still looking good in the ring. I believe he is a good middleweight.

I believe that Trinidad isn't a legitimate middleweight, simply because he never really fought as a middleweight. He always fought at 156 when he fought middleweights. He looked small compared to Hopkins. The only 3 guys hes beaten at middleweight were Mayorga, Joppy, and that French guy. All of them were small.

I believe that Trinidad isn't a legitimate middleweight, simply because he never really fought as a middleweight. He always fought at 156 when he fought middleweights. He looked small compared to Hopkins. The only 3 guys hes beaten at middleweight were Mayorga, Joppy, and that French guy. All of them were small.Joppy was the WBA Middleweight Title holder at the time.Thats pretty good for a middleweight.
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=004995

Joppy was the WBA Middleweight Title holder at the time.Thats pretty good for a middleweight.
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=004995
But he was a small middleweight. On top of that, he was an average fighter, not an elite fighter. If he's having life and death struggles with Julio Cesar Green, maybe getting in there with Trinidad isn't smart.

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things, Joppy is an average middleweight. But once you look at the division, you'll notice that it also sucked/sucks. When he fought Trinidad, Joppy was regarded as the second best middleweight around, or at least one of the better ones. Trinidad dismantled him. Hopkins is so far ahead of the division that it's simply ridiculous.

In today's middleweight picture, if you put a fighter of Trinidad's calibre and skill in there, he's a contender.

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things, Joppy is an average middleweight. But once you look at the division, you'll notice that it also sucked/sucks. When he fought Trinidad, Joppy was regarded as the second best middleweight around, or at least one of the better ones. Trinidad dismantled him. Hopkins is so far ahead of the division that it's simply ridiculous.

In today's middleweight picture, if you put a fighter of Trinidad's calibre and skill in there, he's a contender.Who is so good in Middleweight today that is so much better than Joppys time?

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things, Joppy is an average middleweight. But once you look at the division, you'll notice that it also sucked/sucks. When he fought Trinidad, Joppy was regarded as the second best middleweight around, or at least one of the better ones. Trinidad dismantled him. Hopkins is so far ahead of the division that it's simply ridiculous.

In today's middleweight picture, if you put a fighter of Trinidad's calibre and skill in there, he's a contender.
Hopkins really is so far ahead of the pack at 160. You know, a bunch of bums surrounding an average fighter make the average fighter look great.

So you're saying if the 160lb. division had the same amount of stars as the 140lb. has that Hopkins wouldn't be undisputed champ?

Of course he is a legit Middleweight he's had 4 fights and has looked great in 3. Hopkins is just a better fighter.

Of course he is a middleweight, when he was "retired" he was around 180...At least when he fought Nard he didn't request Nard not to weight more than 156 like DLH did... :cool: He can even go up to 168 IMO...

Tito is and has always been a middleweight. The guy struggle for years to make the welterweight limit.

Trinidad started boxing at 100 pounds.

Trinidad started boxing at 100 pounds.

Trinidad had a solid amateur career winning five Puerto Rican National Amateur Championships at (100 pounds, 112, 119, 126 and 132). He posted an amateur career record of 51-6, but only had 12 knockouts.

give me a ****ing break. Tito turned pro at 147 when he was like 16 or 17. So he was what 100lbs when he was 12.

give me a ****ing break. Tito turned pro at 147 when he was like 16 or 17. So he was what 100lbs when he was 12.
http://www.latinosportslegends.com/Trinidad_Felix_bio.htm
Heres your break :D

Ha he was 12

when you use the term "a guy started at" that means what weight did he turn pro at. Not what he weighted when he was a child.

I used to hate TRINIDAD as lots of u remember


but now i think he's GREAT
even though he lost to DLH

Didnt u see what trinidad did to Joppy destroyed him, mayorga destroyed him, like jose said hopkins is just a better figter and probably always will be

but Trinidad is a devastating middleweight

Not a natural middleweight. At Welterweight Trinidad was awesome but that was because he drained himself and came into welter fights in like two divisions above. When Trinidad ventured to middleweight only Joppy who was the best he beat he looked really good against. I think part of Trinidad`s talent stems from being able to weight drain and be so much more powerful than the opponent. At middleweight his advantage is taken away and his power, even though still formidable, is easier to deal with, especially against world class fighters. Imagine that Wright fights Tito and Wright is able to increase his punch resistance against tito through added pounds ( Winky always had a god chin anyhow ). It is possible that Wright could stay for 12 rds. And he`ll box, his chance of beating Tito are increased. I wanna see Tito beat Wright, Strum or Lacy before he even imagines fighting Hopkins again. 109 - 100 on scorecards then you KO the guy, thats class, and it will take more than crazed fans to convince me Trinidad is middleweight enough to win a rematch vs hopkins!

Trinidad only lost to one middleweight and that was B-hop so to me he is a real middleweight.

So you're saying if the 160lb. division had the same amount of stars as the 140lb. has that Hopkins wouldn't be undisputed champ?
Exactly. He looks like superman against Echols and Allen, just as Michael Grant looked invincible against all those subpar gatekeepers. The middleweight division is the only division above 108 that has gatekeepers as contendors.

Tito did not start his pro career at 147, he did so at 140. Anyone with ANY boxing knowledge should be able to tell you that. He moved to 147 after 8 fights (I believe, I'd have to check my facts) and campaigned at Welterweight until he won against DLH (he got the W and that's good enough for me, I had it a draw just like Letterman did) and then moved on to 154 since it was too hard for him to make 147 anymore.

Tito has come into his Middleweight fights at 156 and 157 but Hopkins also came in at 157 when he fought Tito. Trinidad gains about 10 pounds between the weigh in and the fight just as most fighters do. Tito's conditioning and stamina are superb and I've rarely seen a fighter with such conditioning. As a matter of fact, I remember Tito only taking 35 seconds for his heart rate to drop to normal (resting heart rate) after a 3 minute sparring session; that means he comes out fresh every round. I dare you to find another fighter that can do that.

Tito did not start his pro career at 147, he did so at 140. Anyone with ANY boxing knowledge should be able to tell you that. He moved to 147 after 8 fights (I believe, I'd have to check my facts) and campaigned at Welterweight until he won against DLH (he got the W and that's good enough for me, I had it a draw just like Letterman did) and then moved on to 154 since it was too hard for him to make 147 anymore.

Tito has come into his Middleweight fights at 156 and 157 but Hopkins also came in at 157 when he fought Tito. Trinidad gains about 10 pounds between the weigh in and the fight just as most fighters do. Tito's conditioning and stamina are superb and I've rarely seen a fighter with such conditioning. As a matter of fact, I remember Tito only taking 35 seconds for his heart rate to drop to normal (resting heart rate) after a 3 minute sparring session; that means he comes out fresh every round. I dare you to find another fighter that can do that.

Trinidad had a whole 2 fights at 140. Oh wow*rolleyes*.

Trinidad had a whole 2 fights at 140. Oh wow*rolleyes*.

ha haa, que mamao'

Sometimes fighters move up because they can't make weight anymore. Those are the fighters who are sucessful.

Other fighters move up to chase money and belts they are not sucessful.

Trindad couldn't make 140, so he moved up to 147, 154, and then 160. He naturaly grew into his body and the increase was solid.

DLH couldn't make weight at 130, 135, maybe 140. He could always make 147 and when he got bigger than that, he was getting fatter.

Sometimes fighters still try to make weight even when they are too big, and that leads to situations where a fighter is too big and creates uneven playing feilds. I think Cotto and Cintron are both in too small weight classes. Those are fighters that can move up.

When Zab Judah showed up to fight spinks at 147 and Spinks was 157, that is when I knew Spinks would win. Judah moved up for the wrong reasons. I also favor Judah to win the rematch because he has been growing the last year to be the correct size for his division.

I say lets throw Tito in with Left Hook Lacy @ 168lbs, put lacy's chin to the test and visa versa

Trinidad had a whole 2 fights at 140. Oh wow*rolleyes*.
Actually, his first SIXTEEN fights were at 140. Get your facts straigt. It's one thing to appear to be an idiot but it's another thing altogether to remove all doubt with a post like that.

I thought, at first, that only the first 7 or 8 were but, after checking my facts, he "officially" fought as a Welterweight for the first time against Henry Hughes. Before that, even though he weighed between 139-143, he was an official Jr. Welterweight.

Thanx for playing "I'm an idiot and I don't know how to look up facts on the Internet."

I say lets throw Tito in with Left Hook Lacy @ 168lbs, put lacy's chin to the test and visa versa

I think Lacy is too dangerous because of his size/power for now, let's Tito have a few more big fights at middle and then go to bigger boys if he's successful..

I think Lacy is too dangerous because of his size/power for now, let's Tito have a few more big fights at middle and then go to bigger boys if he's successful..I know it would be a big mismatch for tito but so was the mayorga fight for mayorga, tito picked him apart no contest, hell Farnando Vargas game a better fight than tito. But I would love to see him face lacy. :cool:

Lacy KO1.....

Tito is certainly a legit middleweight, he is not however a great middleweight and the only way he becomes great is by beating nard...not welter and super welters...

Lacy v. Tito...how many weight divisions can Tito's left hook be devistating? This fight is a u pickem with the edge going to the stronger but greener Jeff Lacy...I would cut off a testicle to see this fight, and that is saying a lot since I only got one to begin with!

Who gives a **** if he fought most of his big fights at 154. People act like 4 pounds is the world or something. He fights at middle, and he can win at middle. The fact of the matter is that Trinidad beats peoples asses at whatever weight he fights.

Actually, his first SIXTEEN fights were at 140. Get your facts straigt. It's one thing to appear to be an idiot but it's another thing altogether to remove all doubt with a post like that.

I thought, at first, that only the first 7 or 8 were but, after checking my facts, he "officially" fought as a Welterweight for the first time against Henry Hughes. Before that, even though he weighed between 139-143, he was an official Jr. Welterweight.

Thanx for playing "I'm an idiot and I don't know how to look up facts on the Internet."


*Warning Warning*

Please take your children away from the computer screen because it about to get very brutal.

WRONG

Felix Trinidad's first two fighters were at 140. In his 3rd fight with William Lopez Tito weighted in at 144 now I dont know if you know this or not you dumb ****, but EVERYTHING over 140 is WELTERWEIGHT. If you weight in at 141 you are a WELTERWEIGHT.

"Before that, even though he weighed between 139-143, he was an official Jr. Welterweight"-PR

Pay attention, if when the time comes to jump on the scale and weight in if you weight 143 YOU ARE A WELTERWEIGHT, you are not "an official Jr. Welterweight" If you weight more than 140.

Felix Trinidad all together had 4 fights at 140. 4 Of his first 8 were at 140.

My ****ing god.

School is officially out now hurry up kid, put your football helmet back on, wipe the drool off your chin and hurry up because the short bus is about to pull out and we wouldn't want you to miss your ride. Go home sit in the corner and think about what you've done today.

Legitimate Middle? We can talk all day, but there's just one way to prove it. Seek today's top Middles and go at it.

Right now, Tito would be rightfully a "legitimate" Middle if he fought well against Sturm for instance. Make that fight happen and wipe away any thoughts of not being "legitimate".

As far as Tito beating the WBA holder, that doesn't give you a whole lot of braggin' rights.

*Warning Warning*

Please take your children away from the computer screen because it about to get very brutal.

WRONG

Felix Trinidad's first two fighters were at 140. In his 3rd fight with William Lopez Tito weighted in at 144 now I dont know if you know this or not you dumb ****, but EVERYTHING over 140 is WELTERWEIGHT. If you weight in at 141 you are a WELTERWEIGHT.

"Before that, even though he weighed between 139-143, he was an official Jr. Welterweight"-PR

Pay attention, if when the time comes to jump on the scale and weight in if you weight 143 YOU ARE A WELTERWEIGHT, you are not "an official Jr. Welterweight" If you weight more than 140.

Felix Trinidad all together had 4 fights at 140. 4 Of his first 8 were at 140.

My ****ing god.

School is officially out now hurry up kid, put your football helmet back on, wipe the drool off your chin and hurry up because the short bus is about to pull out and we wouldn't want you to miss your ride. Go home sit in the corner and think about what you've done today.
Ok, let's see who's wrong. When a fighter comes in overweight (by an ounce or 5 pounds) it is up to the sanctioning body to decide if the fight is still at a certain weight class and if that fight is for a title if the titles are still on the line. Remember when Mayorga was going to fight M.A. Gonzalez but came in at 155? Well, they were still going to fight at WELTERWEIGHT but not for the titles because the weight difference was too much but if M.A. Gonzalez came in at 155 also they would've sanctioned it for the belts because there is no advantage to either fighter. The WBA was going to sanction the fight at Welterweight but chose to allow Mayorga to fight Mitchell instead and still sanctioned it as a 147 pound fight (meaning that it counts for his ranking in the Welterweight division and not the Jr. Middleweight).

The same goes for Jose Miguel Cotto; he has fought above 130 pounds for his last six fights but is still classified as a Jr. Lightweight by the sanctioning bodies (WBO # 4, IBF # 8, WBA #12, WBC # 16). Look it up if you don't believe me. Why would they keep him in a division that, according to his weight, he hasn't fought in since 2001? Because that is what they classify him as. When he fights the contracts say a weight above 130 but the fights are still classified as Jr. Lightweight fights.

The weights and the divisions they are fighting in are determined in the contracts, not by the weight. If both Bernard Hopkins and Howard Eastman decide to step up to the scales and, by contract, weigh in at 154 pounds, it won't make the fight a Jr. Middleweight fight; if the contract called for a weight not to exceed 162 and both fighters stepped on the scale weighing 161 the fight would still take place at Middleweight and for the Middleweight titles.

So, since Tito was classified as a Jr. Welterweight for those fights that is, in fact, what he was.

Don't waste ur time in Jose...
He's a member of "I love DLH, Hate Tito" Fan Club...

I found an example. On 1997-04-18 Marco Antonio Barrera fought Junior Jones for the Super Bantamweight title (122 pounds) and officially weighed 124. The WBO sanctioned the bout and the title was on the line. It wasn't a S. Bantamweight vs. a Featherweight; they were both classified as Super Bantamweights. Look here in Boxrec (http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=008010) if you don't believe me.

Jose, I guess your theory just doesn't hold water.

Don't waste ur time in Jose...
He's a member of "I love DLH, Hate Tito" Fan Club...
Papi, I just proved him wrong. A ver si ahora se calla la boca.

Lets see...Dlh and Nard fought at 156...but it was for the middleweight titles... :cool:

You didn't prove anyone wrong you tard. If anything all you did was confirm how little you know about boxing.

Ok, let's see who's wrong. When a fighter comes in overweight (by an ounce or 5 pounds) it is up to the sanctioning body to decide if the fight is still at a certain weight class and if that fight is for a title if the titles are still on the line. Remember when Mayorga was going to fight M.A. Gonzalez but came in at 155? Well, they were still going to fight at WELTERWEIGHT but not for the titles because the weight difference was too much but if M.A. Gonzalez came in at 155 also they would've sanctioned it for the belts because there is no advantage to either fighter. The WBA was going to sanction the fight at Welterweight but chose to allow Mayorga to fight Mitchell instead and still sanctioned it as a 147 pound fight (meaning that it counts for his ranking in the Welterweight division and not the Jr. Middleweight).

The same goes for Jose Miguel Cotto; he has fought above 130 pounds for his last six fights but is still classified as a Jr. Lightweight by the sanctioning bodies (WBO # 4, IBF # 8, WBA #12, WBC # 16). Look it up if you don't believe me. Why would they keep him in a division that, according to his weight, he hasn't fought in since 2001? Because that is what they classify him as. When he fights the contracts say a weight above 130 but the fights are still classified as Jr. Lightweight fights.

The weights and the divisions they are fighting in are determined in the contracts, not by the weight. If both Bernard Hopkins and Howard Eastman decide to step up to the scales and, by contract, weigh in at 154 pounds, it won't make the fight a Jr. Middleweight fight; if the contract called for a weight not to exceed 162 and both fighters stepped on the scale weighing 161 the fight would still take place at Middleweight and for the Middleweight titles.

So, since Tito was classified as a Jr. Welterweight for those fights that is, in fact, what he was.

Mayorga vs M.A Gonzales WTF?

No its not he was a Weltwerweight. When BOTH you and your opponent are coming in 140+ its a welterweight fight.

The examples you are trying to use...even though you just made them up. Are of world title fights and guys who have big time promotors who have gotten exeptions for there champions. Your talking about sanctioning bodies and what not, im sorry but what belt was on the line for Tito's 4 round fights in PR? oh thats right there weren't any.


Yes what weight yoiu fight at is determined in contracts, but when you and your opponent both come in well over 140 then its a welterweight fight. Dont you think its a bit odd that not only Tito came in overweight but his opponenst also came in as weltwerweights..hmmm interesting.


I found an example. On 1997-04-18 Marco Antonio Barrera fought Junior Jones for the Super Bantamweight title (122 pounds) and officially weighed 124. The WBO sanctioned the bout and the title was on the line. It wasn't a S. Bantamweight vs. a Featherweight; they were both classified as Super Bantamweights. Look here in Boxrec if you don't believe me.

Jose, I guess your theory just doesn't hold water.


Its not a "theory" its a fact. You pointed that fight but what you forgot is that while MAB came in over Junior Jones came in right on the spot at 122. When that happens that fighter who came in overweight he losses the belt on the scales and only his opponent can win it.

sorry but when Tito and his opponents are coming in at 143/144/145 gues what there weltweights.

Lets see...Dlh and Nard fought at 156...but it was for the middleweight titles... :cool:


*shakes head*

156 is Middleweight dumbass

anything over 154 is middleweight

..... while MAB came in over Junior Jones came in right on the spot at 122. When that happens that fighter who came in overweight he losses the belt on the scales and only his opponent can win it.

Jose, Question.

If two guys meet for a vacant belt and one is on-weight and one over-weight, they won't be fighting for the same prize? The over-weight guy would be fighting for a "win", while the on-weight guy is fighting for a "title"?

Ha he was 12

when you use the term "a guy started at" that means what weight did he turn pro at. Not what he weighted when he was a child.
lmao so true
by that standard
all the HW were straweights at one time
:D

Of course he is a middleweight, when he was "retired" he was around 180...At least when he fought Nard he didn't request Nard not to weight more than 156 like DLH did... :cool: He can even go up to 168 IMO...

why not 175 :D

lmao so true
by that standard
all the HW were straweights at one time
:D

u cant say the same for butterbean

Of course he is a middleweight, when he was "retired" he was around 180...At least when he fought Nard he didn't request Nard not to weight more than 156 like DLH did... :cool: He can even go up to 168 IMO...
i dont think the question was
can he carry the weight
anyone can plump up 20lbs
no big deal
think he was aksin if hes a "true" as in effective and honestly belongs there
Lets see...Dlh and Nard fought at 156...but it was for the middleweight titles... :cool:
do you happen to remember what tito and mayo weighed?
that was for some intrem title as well

i dont think the question was
can he carry the weight
anyone can plump up 20lbs
no big deal
think he was aksin if hes a "true" as in effective and honestly belongs there

do you happen to remember what tito and mayo weighed?
that was for some intrem title as well

don't remember...check boxrec. mofo

i think the correct term would be that tito only weighed in at 140 a few times. you can still be over the weight limit and have official fights at your weight class unless its a title fight, i believe as long as both fighters agree to it. why youre allowed to do this is beyond me but thats just the way it is. tito has grown over the years i feel he is a complete middle now. he has the power to knock middleweights out, can take a middleweight punch and his stamina is great, what more do you need?

Don't waste ur time in Jose...
He's a member of "I love DLH, Hate Tito" Fan Club...
me too, how funny, lol
www.ihatetito.com
check it out sometime ;)
of course I am playing

don't remember...check boxrec. mofo
well it was under 160
just thought that was interesting
157 and 158
atleast oscar fought a real middle wieght
not a blown up one

i think the correct term would be that tito only weighed in at 140 a few times. you can still be over the weight limit and have official fights at your weight class unless its a title fight, i believe as long as both fighters agree to it. why youre allowed to do this is beyond me but thats just the way it is.
Exactly! You are allowed to fight for the title if the sanctioning bodies allow you to. Barrera WAS fighting for the title even though he was 2 pounds overweight. It's at the other fighter's discresion if he wants to put his title on the line while at a disadvantage.

I think Jose thinks he knows it all but, in fact, has no clue of what he's talking about.

IMO tito is abig super welter which makes him an average middleweight size wise .

what you need to know is that trinidad moved up in weight YEARS BEFORE facing DLH.

he stepped up to super welter to face TERRY NORRIS , and had a warm up fight in the division. NORRIS lost to mullings so he moved back to welter , but obviously he could have moved up a long time ago.


and Ike QUARTEY started at 140 , did he seem small at junior welter ??not to mention welterweight.

me too, how funny, lol
www.ihatetito.com
check it out sometime ;)
of course I am playing

LMAO...(i even click on the link) :D

well it was under 160
just thought that was interesting
157 and 158
atleast oscar fought a real middle wieght
not a blown up one

That's the weight in right? at the fight they were over 160...right?

And about Oscar...He demanded Nard to not weight over 156 at the weight in and not to gain more than 10pnds...right?

That's the weight in right? at the fight they were over 160...right?

And about Oscar...He demanded Nard to not weight over 156 at the weight in and not to gain more than 10pnds...right?
true true
but tito.....
he ummmmmm....
TITO SMELLLSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

true true
but tito.....
he ummmmmm....
TITO SMELLLSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

like chicken a la Hoya? :D

Exactly! You are allowed to fight for the title if the sanctioning bodies allow you to. Barrera WAS fighting for the title even though he was 2 pounds overweight. It's at the other fighter's discresion if he wants to put his title on the line while at a disadvantage.

I think Jose thinks he knows it all but, in fact, has no clue of what he's talking about.

No you got pretty much exposed in this one and what makes it even worse your PR.

No you got pretty much exposed in this one and what makes it even worse your PR.
Tu eres un mamao y no tengo dudas de eso. You don't know what you're talking about.

I believe Trinidad has successfully carried his power from weight to weight while still looking good in the ring. I believe he is a good middleweight.

Of course he is in the same manner that RJJ is a legit HW.

Tito Trinidad greatest Jr Weltwerweight of all tiiiiime