View Full Version : Pura sangre Mexicana....!!!


Cuauhtémoc1520
05-16-2012, 11:54 AM
La Panterita. This is why we have the most heart in boxing.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zlEpt7YSoUg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

MEXGBP
05-16-2012, 02:52 PM
en la madre, asta me emocione mirando la pelea,
lo mejor fue el turkey que ganaro:boxing:

Cuauhtémoc1520
05-16-2012, 02:55 PM
A fukin turkey for the win is awesome. I actually won one too when I was an amateur for thankgiving day.

piojo del norte
05-16-2012, 03:02 PM
Stupid trainer for allowing her to fight someone much bigger than her.

MalikKnucklez
05-16-2012, 04:20 PM
Stupid trainer for allowing her to fight someone much bigger than her.

u gonna fight people much bigger than you all the time. its part of the sport. that's why they have weight classes.

i been tryna find this movie on netflix but no luck. youtube is only offering a 24 hr pass.

piojo del norte
05-16-2012, 08:08 PM
In the amateurs unlike the pro's your trainer can agree to fight someone who may be 6 or 7 pounds heavier than you. And remember on the amateurs the weight-ins are the same day of the fights just hours before the actual fight so they can't put on weight.

I am sure you can tell both girls are substantially different in weight.

u gonna fight people much bigger than you all the time. its part of the sport. that's why they have weight classes.

i been tryna find this movie on netflix but no luck. youtube is only offering a 24 hr pass.

piojo del norte
05-16-2012, 08:16 PM
I am sure you know how the amateurs work I don't think little girls should be fighting that hard that young. But that is just me.

u gonna fight people much bigger than you all the time. its part of the sport. that's why they have weight classes.

i been tryna find this movie on netflix but no luck. youtube is only offering a 24 hr pass.

Ki11a Cam
05-17-2012, 12:27 AM
La Panterita. This is why we have the most heart in boxing.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zlEpt7YSoUg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Strongly disagree.......its impossible to quantify which nation has the most heart.....

A lot of this "he has the most heart stems from how a fighter is trained"....notice how no one ever says Vitali or Wlad has heart because the fighting style dictates that there are rarely in a battle where they have to rely on heart....same as Roy Jones Jr. Im absolutely sure that if Mexico had the same amateur system/mentality/trainng methods of Cuba /USA, they would produce the same type of fighter.........

For every country men who has "heart", there is another who doesnt have "heart"

Further

Mars Volta
05-17-2012, 12:32 AM
Strongly disagree.......its impossible to quantify which nation has the most heart.....

A lot of this "he has the most heart stems from how a fighter is trained"....notice how no one ever says Vitali or Wlad has heart because the fighting style dictates that there are rarely in a battle where they have to rely on heart....same as Roy Jones Jr. Im absolutely sure that if Mexico had the same amateur system/mentality/trainng methods of Cuba /USA, they would produce the same type of fighter.........

For every country men who has "heart", there is another who doesnt have "heart"

Further

Vitali himself said that Mexicans fighters had the most heart when he was going to face arrerola

el.azteca
05-17-2012, 01:06 AM
Strongly disagree.......its impossible to quantify which nation has the most heart.....

A lot of this "he has the most heart stems from how a fighter is trained"....notice how no one ever says Vitali or Wlad has heart because the fighting style dictates that there are rarely in a battle where they have to rely on heart....same as Roy Jones Jr. Im absolutely sure that if Mexico had the same amateur system/mentality/trainng methods of Cuba /USA, they would produce the same type of fighter.........

For every country men who has "heart", there is another who doesnt have "heart"

Further
Mexicans have the most heart in boxing. You can tell by the way they fight at least 95 percent of them. They give it their all and dont back down never in a boring fight just what boxing should be.

Ki11a Cam
05-17-2012, 01:57 AM
Mexicans have the most heart in boxing. You can tell by the way they fight at least 95 percent of them. They give it their all and dont back down never in a boring fight just what boxing should be.

The way a fighter fights doesnt dictate how much heart they have....no idea how you came to that theory.....for example you could never prove to me that JMM has more heart than, say, Pernell Whittaker just because he fights in a more crowd pleasing manner.....Whittaker never had to show he had "heart" because he fought in a way that never had to rely on "heart"....he fought the way he was trained......

For the most part, fighters fight the way they do because of two things, their physical gifts...(chin, speed etc), and how they were trained before turning pro.......

Ki11a Cam
05-17-2012, 01:58 AM
Vitali himself said that Mexicans fighters had the most heart when he was going to face arrerola

Vitali also said he beat Lennox lewis.....

el.azteca
05-17-2012, 02:03 AM
The way a fighter fights doesnt dictate how much heart they have....no idea how you came to that theory.....for example you could never prove to me that JMM has more heart than, say, Pernell Whittaker just because he fights in a more crowd pleasing manner.....Whittaker never had to show he had "heart" because he fought in a way that never had to rely on "heart"....he fought the way he was trained......

For the most part, fighters fight the way they do because of two things, their physical gifts...(chin, speed etc), and how they were trained before turning pro.......

Most african americans fight like cowards no offence. They dont like to get hit while mexicans look for that type of fight bc they want to please the fans and show their heart and will to win. Which in most cases pulls them thru against these so called great boxers

Ki11a Cam
05-17-2012, 02:27 AM
Most african americans fight like cowards no offence. They dont like to get hit while mexicans look for that type of fight bc they want to please the fans and show their heart and will to win. Which in most cases pulls them thru against these so called great boxers

African Americans dont tend to like to get hit because they were brought up to not get hit..which is a philosopy taught in American gyms by American boxing trainers...be it black or white.....

There is a reason why America is the most successful boxing nation in the history of boxing and there is a reason these African American "cowards" (about 30million) have won more champions in more divisions than any other nation/ethnicity........

LeG00N
05-17-2012, 02:48 AM
I'd knock them both out......

dj Calleti
05-17-2012, 04:04 AM
My boy ki11a Cam schooling these clowns..........

Cuauhtémoc1520
05-17-2012, 10:37 AM
Strongly disagree.......its impossible to quantify which nation has the most heart.....

A lot of this "he has the most heart stems from how a fighter is trained"....notice how no one ever says Vitali or Wlad has heart because the fighting style dictates that there are rarely in a battle where they have to rely on heart....same as Roy Jones Jr. Im absolutely sure that if Mexico had the same amateur system/mentality/trainng methods of Cuba /USA, they would produce the same type of fighter.........

For every country men who has "heart", there is another who doesnt have "heart"

Further

You kind of just proved my point in what you said. IF Mexicans trained and fought like Cubans then....

The problem is, they don't. I have no doubt in my mind that where you are from dictates the style and mentality you have. In Mexico it is a very macho culture and the men who fight, tend to relay that in the ring.

I'm not saying that there aren't tough men from all over the world but you can see Eastern European fighters with toughness, British fighters, etc....

Your culture dictates what type of mentality you may have and some even argue genetics as well but that's another conversation. Heart comes from what you have been through, its the same reason in the early part of the 20th century, it was the Irish who were the toughest because they were doing the bottom of the barrel work.

Mexicans are the workmen of this country and it's no coincidence that they tranfer that toughness and blue collar work into the ring.

Ki11a Cam
05-17-2012, 11:53 AM
You kind of just proved my point in what you said. IF Mexicans trained and fought like Cubans then....

The problem is, they don't. I have no doubt in my mind that where you are from dictates the style and mentality you have. In Mexico it is a very macho culture and the men who fight, tend to relay that in the ring.

I'm not saying that there aren't tough men from all over the world but you can see Eastern European fighters with toughness, British fighters, etc....

Your culture dictates what type of mentality you may have and some even argue genetics as well but that's another conversation. Heart comes from what you have been through, its the same reason in the early part of the 20th century, it was the Irish who were the toughest because they were doing the bottom of the barrel work.

Mexicans are the workmen of this country and it's no coincidence that they tranfer that toughness and blue collar work into the ring.

See, but thats my whole point...you keep working under the assumption that the way one fights is, for the most part, indicative of how much heart one has......again, I use the example that you could never prove to me that JMM has more heart than Pernell Whittaker, just because JMM fought a more crowd pleasing style. You can never prove with good examples how much heart Wlad Klitsckho has comapared to a JCC has because his style of fighting is not one that will reveal how much Heart he has...same as Roy Jones Jr....

Cleto_Reyes
05-17-2012, 12:05 PM
See, but thats my whole point...you keep working under the assumption that the way one fights is, for the most part, indicative of how much heart one has......again, I use the example that you could never prove to me that JMM has more heart than Pernell Whittaker, just because JMM fought a more crowd pleasing style. You can never prove with good examples how much heart Wlad Klitsckho has comapared to a JCC has because his style of fighting is not one that will reveal how much Heart he has...same as Roy Jones Jr....

Why dont they show that they got heart?? JMM can box all day like pernell if he wanted counter 1 ,2 and move. He chooses to get in there and bang sometimes. why? cause he's got heart and not afraid to show it. Now these guys that you mention like sweet pea only have one style and never change. yea we will never know if they have heart or not. Ill am saynig is if you have the goods your not afriad to show it..

MalikKnucklez
05-17-2012, 12:14 PM
I agree with a lot of whats been said, and disagree with some of it as well.

First of all, the "HEART" is nothing but an organ that pumps blood throughout your body...so lets make this perfectly clear...I say that to say this...having "heart", is actually a MENTAL thing, just like everything else. It is a mind state and process of coordination and thought.

anybody who chooses to make a career/life out of Boxing should never have their "toughness" or "heart" questioned. Boxing is a tough sport by nature, regardless of what school of boxing a fighter is from. Anybody who has been involved with the sport (as a trainer or fighter) knows this.

Geography has a lot to do with how a fighter fights, but in no way should it be used as a measure of a fighter's "heart" or will to fight, or even to make generalizations on a people's culture. That s**t is ridiculous.

Thats like saying because fighters from Panama or Cuba have a more "technical" style that they don't come from "tough" backgrounds where they have had to deal with poverty, crime, drugs, political repression,being financially destitute, etc. lol.....fam that is the case in just about every country outside of North America and Europe.

Thats like me saying because Mexican fighters aren't "traditionally technical" boxers that Mexican men lack intelligence, diligence and craftsmanship. Is that an accurate observation? No.

Most of it boils down to your region and its historical relationship to the SPORT of boxing. And in most cases, contradicts where the fighters are from...

A Few Examples:

Detroit (and Michigan in general), specifically the Kronk gym, has had a long , rich history of proficient technically & defensively skilled boxers...Detroit isn't known for pumping out "brawlers"...but yet Detroit is one of the roughest cities in America, with one of the highest crime, unemployment and drug rates. So how does that translate into the gym?

Cubans on the island that train under the Cuban Olympic system train that way because in the beginning stages of Cuban Olympic boxing it was being modeled after the Soviets, with Soviet trainers and Soviet fighters. Boxing in Cuba as an olympic sport was a "scientific" process, because it was used as a political & social development tool. Cubans then took the "fundamentals" that they were taught and made it a style of their own, it became more flexible, more athletic and "slicker" than Eastern European fighters.

But, in contrast, Cuban-American fighters who train under the P.A.L system here in Miami fight COMPLETELY different than Cuban-American fighters who were trained in the Cuban Olympic/Amateur system. Are they both not Cuban? Do they both not share similar backgrounds?

Training. the way they were taught to adjust to the sport. Trust me, to be a "technically" skilled fighter takes an enormous amount of blood, sweat and work in the gym. That comes with taking a tremendous amount of ass whoopings. Somebody who doesn't have "heart" or is afraid to get "hit", will never have the tools to develop into a technically proficient fighter. Nobody was born a Pernell Whitaker or a Floyd Mayweather, these fighters were made.

MalikKnucklez
05-17-2012, 12:27 PM
p.s. any of these tough guys that want to make such "keen" observations about a fighters heart and dedication to the sport has an open invitation to come down to the Dungeon gym on 107th & Fntbl on Wednesdays (where we have 'open' sparring) to come down here and spar with some of our Panamanian, Puerto Rican & Cuban boxers lol....

Ki11a Cam
05-17-2012, 01:01 PM
Why dont they show that they got heart?? JMM can box all day like pernell if he wanted counter 1 ,2 and move. He chooses to get in there and bang sometimes. why? cause he's got heart and not afraid to show it. Now these guys that you mention like sweet pea only have one style and never change. yea we will never know if they have heart or not. Ill am saynig is if you have the goods your not afriad to show it..

My argument is that Pernell was a lot better at what he did than JMM, thus there was no reason for Pernell to change his style........there is a reason why most observers rank Pernell a lot higher than JMM (which is no disrespect to JMM)....Pernell is a top 5 defensive figter of all time and won a lot of fights using such a style that he didnt need to change it....

Now you could argue that his defensive style cost him a few wins that he was robbed of but thats a different argument......

Ki11a Cam
05-17-2012, 01:07 PM
I agree with a lot of whats been said, and disagree with some of it as well.

First of all, the "HEART" is nothing but an organ that pumps blood throughout your body...so lets make this perfectly clear...I say that to say this...having "heart", is actually a MENTAL thing, just like everything else. It is a mind state and process of coordination and thought.

anybody who chooses to make a career/life out of Boxing should never have their "toughness" or "heart" questioned. Boxing is a tough sport by nature, regardless of what school of boxing a fighter is from. Anybody who has been involved with the sport (as a trainer or fighter) knows this.

Geography has a lot to do with how a fighter fights, but in no way should it be used as a measure of a fighter's "heart" or will to fight, or even to make generalizations on a people's culture. That s**t is ridiculous.

Thats like saying because fighters from Panama or Cuba have a more "technical" style that they don't come from "tough" backgrounds where they have had to deal with poverty, crime, drugs, political repression,being financially destitute, etc. lol.....fam that is the case in just about every country outside of North America and Europe.

Thats like me saying because Mexican fighters aren't "traditionally technical" boxers that Mexican men lack intelligence, diligence and craftsmanship. Is that an accurate observation? No.

Most of it boils down to your region and its historical relationship to the SPORT of boxing. And in most cases, contradicts where the fighters are from...

A Few Examples:

Detroit (and Michigan in general), specifically the Kronk gym, has had a long , rich history of proficient technically & defensively skilled boxers...Detroit isn't known for pumping out "brawlers"...but yet Detroit is one of the roughest cities in America, with one of the highest crime, unemployment and drug rates. So how does that translate into the gym?

Cubans on the island that train under the Cuban Olympic system train that way because in the beginning stages of Cuban Olympic boxing it was being modeled after the Soviets, with Soviet trainers and Soviet fighters. Boxing in Cuba as an olympic sport was a "scientific" process, because it was used as a political & social development tool. Cubans then took the "fundamentals" that they were taught and made it a style of their own, it became more flexible, more athletic and "slicker" than Eastern European fighters.

But, in contrast, Cuban-American fighters who train under the P.A.L system here in Miami fight COMPLETELY different than Cuban-American fighters who were trained in the Cuban Olympic/Amateur system. Are they both not Cuban? Do they both not share similar backgrounds?

Training. the way they were taught to adjust to the sport. Trust me, to be a "technically" skilled fighter takes an enormous amount of blood, sweat and work in the gym. That comes with taking a tremendous amount of ass whoopings. Somebody who doesn't have "heart" or is afraid to get "hit", will never have the tools to develop into a technically proficient fighter. Nobody was born a Pernell Whitaker or a Floyd Mayweather, these fighters were made.

I agree, there were many a skilled fighter that had so called "heart", but where technicians....such as James Toney, Muhammad Ali etc.

My overall point is that fighting a certain style will bring out such "he has a lot of heart" comments, but that doesnt mean that someone who is defensive or technical doesnt have heart, he was just trained to fight in a certain way (with obvious exceptions), which doesnt bring out such qualities, such as Wlad Klitschko and Pernell Whittaker.

Cuauhtémoc1520
05-17-2012, 02:49 PM
See, but thats my whole point...you keep working under the assumption that the way one fights is, for the most part, indicative of how much heart one has......again, I use the example that you could never prove to me that JMM has more heart than Pernell Whittaker, just because JMM fought a more crowd pleasing style. You can never prove with good examples how much heart Wlad Klitsckho has comapared to a JCC has because his style of fighting is not one that will reveal how much Heart he has...same as Roy Jones Jr....


The mere fact that they engage in that style makes the point though. You are talking in hypotheticals, we don't know what type of wars Whitaker for example would have engaged in. He had heart but his style never lent itself for us to see him pushed to that limit.

I agree with a lot of whats been said, and disagree with some of it as well.

First of all, the "HEART" is nothing but an organ that pumps blood throughout your body...so lets make this perfectly clear...I say that to say this...having "heart", is actually a MENTAL thing, just like everything else. It is a mind state and process of coordination and thought.

anybody who chooses to make a career/life out of Boxing should never have their "toughness" or "heart" questioned. Boxing is a tough sport by nature, regardless of what school of boxing a fighter is from. Anybody who has been involved with the sport (as a trainer or fighter) knows this.

Geography has a lot to do with how a fighter fights, but in no way should it be used as a measure of a fighter's "heart" or will to fight, or even to make generalizations on a people's culture. That s**t is ridiculous.

Thats like saying because fighters from Panama or Cuba have a more "technical" style that they don't come from "tough" backgrounds where they have had to deal with poverty, crime, drugs, political repression,being financially destitute, etc. lol.....fam that is the case in just about every country outside of North America and Europe.

Thats like me saying because Mexican fighters aren't "traditionally technical" boxers that Mexican men lack intelligence, diligence and craftsmanship. Is that an accurate observation? No.

Most of it boils down to your region and its historical relationship to the SPORT of boxing. And in most cases, contradicts where the fighters are from...

A Few Examples:

Detroit (and Michigan in general), specifically the Kronk gym, has had a long , rich history of proficient technically & defensively skilled boxers...Detroit isn't known for pumping out "brawlers"...but yet Detroit is one of the roughest cities in America, with one of the highest crime, unemployment and drug rates. So how does that translate into the gym?

Cubans on the island that train under the Cuban Olympic system train that way because in the beginning stages of Cuban Olympic boxing it was being modeled after the Soviets, with Soviet trainers and Soviet fighters. Boxing in Cuba as an olympic sport was a "scientific" process, because it was used as a political & social development tool. Cubans then took the "fundamentals" that they were taught and made it a style of their own, it became more flexible, more athletic and "slicker" than Eastern European fighters.

But, in contrast, Cuban-American fighters who train under the P.A.L system here in Miami fight COMPLETELY different than Cuban-American fighters who were trained in the Cuban Olympic/Amateur system. Are they both not Cuban? Do they both not share similar backgrounds?

Training. the way they were taught to adjust to the sport. Trust me, to be a "technically" skilled fighter takes an enormous amount of blood, sweat and work in the gym. That comes with taking a tremendous amount of ass whoopings. Somebody who doesn't have "heart" or is afraid to get "hit", will never have the tools to develop into a technically proficient fighter. Nobody was born a Pernell Whitaker or a Floyd Mayweather, these fighters were made.

Nobody in the world is saying that other fighters don't have heart (and by heart that is what I meant, toughness, mental toughness etc)

What I said was that in Mexico, that hit and be hit style is what people want, fighters want and because of it's style, it lends itself to fighters who are willing to take great punishment to please the crowd.

That is also why I said it's a matter of how you were brought up. For example, Erik Morales is a very good boxer, much better than people give him credit for. Yet he CHOSE to brawl because it pleased the crowd and he wanted to hand out as much damage as possible.

This isn't a disrespect to other fighters, just a thread to show the heart, toughness that Mexicans have that is bred in them from day one.

You can deny that all you want but that's why there is a "philly" style, "European" style, "Amatuer" style etc......differences do exist.

MalikKnucklez
05-17-2012, 06:36 PM
This isn't a disrespect to other fighters, just a thread to show the heart, toughness that Mexicans have that is bred in them from day one.

You can deny that all you want but that's why there is a "philly" style, "European" style, "Amatuer" style etc......differences do exist.

I agree and never denied that. I just don't like when these styles get used as a reference point for somebody's "heart" or mental toughness. That's all.

I recognize that there are different styles...and I love the fact that there are different styles...its what makes boxing,- boxing.

we use the term "Es un Mexicano" or "Es un Cubano" in the gym all the time, even when referring to non-Mexicans and non-Cubans...just so it gives us an idea of who it is we working with.

If anybody knows where I can download the actual Born & Bred movie let me know.

MalikKnucklez
05-17-2012, 06:38 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-bCOOF6E0nM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Luffy
05-17-2012, 08:23 PM
See, but thats my whole point...you keep working under the assumption that the way one fights is, for the most part, indicative of how much heart one has......again, I use the example that you could never prove to me that JMM has more heart than Pernell Whittaker, just because JMM fought a more crowd pleasing style. You can never prove with good examples how much heart Wlad Klitsckho has comapared to a JCC has because his style of fighting is not one that will reveal how much Heart he has...same as Roy Jones Jr....

are you KPB?

el.azteca
05-18-2012, 01:53 AM
African Americans dont tend to like to get hit because they were brought up to not get hit..which is a philosopy taught in American gyms by American boxing trainers...be it black or white.....

There is a reason why America is the most successful boxing nation in the history of boxing and there is a reason these African American "cowards" (about 30million) have won more champions in more divisions than any other nation/ethnicity........

so is that why mexico has like 14 or so champs? And they are cowards when they decide to run like many do. I respect some like williams kirland and russel but hate cowards like broner mayweather who suck the life out of a fight

bigsmoothh
05-18-2012, 02:37 PM
great vid, thanks for sharing................

Cuauhtémoc1520
05-18-2012, 03:48 PM
I agree and never denied that. I just don't like when these styles get used as a reference point for somebody's "heart" or mental toughness. That's all.

I recognize that there are different styles...and I love the fact that there are different styles...its what makes boxing,- boxing.

we use the term "Es un Mexicano" or "Es un Cubano" in the gym all the time, even when referring to non-Mexicans and non-Cubans...just so it gives us an idea of who it is we working with.

If anybody knows where I can download the actual Born & Bred movie let me know.

Those are used for a reason. I'm a local trainer in S. Fla and I think I might stop by and check out the gym you posted. I always enjoy watching a good sparring session. I still spar myself, getting a little too old though but I would like to see some young up and comers spar hard.