thx to JOSE i watched a few MMA (ufc and pride) and i found it entertaining , but less than boxing.

ground fighting is so damn boring and gay friendly , but the stand up action and some wrestling movements are good to see.

i noticed that most guys use boxing and a few knees when striking and wrestling when grounded.

which proves boxing is a very effective striking sport. you dont see that much kicks , besides maybe crocop.

anyone watches it too ? and do you prefer boxing?

Bruce Lee in one of his books about Jeet Kune Do analyzed every Martial Arts Style and said that Western boxing is one of the most complete and most applicable.

Boxing is more action packed because punches are faster than kicks and kicks are almost ALWAYS shot from long range. Whereas with punching, if you are in range to hit your opponent, he is generally within range to hit you.

i know i fought in kickboxing

i know i fought in kickboxing

Yeah, I do other martial arts as well. I have had trouble explaining to people how boxing is MUCH more fast paced when you are actually in the ring, than any other type of fighting.

Which kickboxing style?

Savate?

yes savate obviously , it s teached in schools here. then i moved to thai kickboxing , as you may know it is popular in france.

then i started boxing cause i understood it was the real stuff , and made a respectable amateur career .

yes savate obviously , it s teached in schools here. then i moved to thai kickboxing , as you may know it is popular in france.

then i started boxing cause i understood it was the real stuff , and made a respectable amateur career .

Thats cool. I have been training for a couple years now. But school and work have kept me from competing so far. I hope I can this year.

in what sport do you plan on competing ?

Boxing. I am in good enough shape. Despite being born with Astma, I can spar 5 3 minute rounds when I have been OUT of the gym. I am still young enough too.

I am not looking for a looooong amateur career. Hell I wouldn't have time. Just so I could say I did it really.

I will study martial arts in some capacity all my life.

boxing seems so much more "civilized", that MMA and UFC pride is just a bunch of animals like Crocop and Minotauro. i'll watch it, but every fight starts with grappling, and then ends with the ground and pound. i'd rather watch kickboxing, i don't get bored as fast. there's n o ****ing way i'll go in the octagon, i can box but can't do that grappling ****

I feel I would do better in those types of matches than in boxing.

I have trained in Martial Arts, wrestled in high school and had 12 amateur boxing matches. I am both a fan of UFC/Pride and boxing. However I like watching boxing better, MMA has been reduced to the wrestlers taking over and just ground and pounding the opponent to a decision victory...VERY VERY boring to watch. Not only that...I believe most of the top athletes in boxing are much more talented world class athletes than the top guys in MMA...the key word is MOST not all. Also don't let people fool you into thinking boxers can't be effective in MMA...problem is that so far the boxers representing in MMA have been of ****ty quality...I guarantee you if Mike Tyson as washed up as he is, entered UFC he would decapitate 99% of the fighters put in front of him with just his fists alone.

Yes boxing is the most effective stand up technique folowed by Muay Thai.

You dont see alot of kicks because kicks are risky to the fighter that is kickcing. If he misses then he is mist likely going to be taken to the ground.

To say MMA is just a "bunch of animals" is just stupid. There profesional fighters who train hard and are highly skilled just like boxers.

A boxer will always have a punchers chance in any fight, but the boxer also has no take down defense and could be taken down with ease. Once the fight is on the ground the boxer has no chance because he cant guard himself.

oh yeah Bruce Lee was a fraud.

I have trained in Martial Arts, wrestled in high school and had 12 amateur boxing matches. I am both a fan of UFC/Pride and boxing. However I like watching boxing better, MMA has been reduced to the wrestlers taking over and just ground and pounding the opponent to a decision victory...VERY VERY boring to watch. Not only that...I believe most of the top athletes in boxing are much more talented world class athletes than the top guys in MMA...the key word is MOST not all. Also don't let people fool you into thinking boxers can't be effective in MMA...problem is that so far the boxers representing in MMA have been of ****ty quality...I guarantee you if Mike Tyson as washed up as he is, entered UFC he would decapitate 99% of the fighters put in front of him with just his fists alone.


for sure a great boxer would do well especially an heavyweight with one punch KO power.

look at botha he is at best a second tier heavyweight with no talent and he beated top kickboxers in K1.

Yes boxing is the most effective stand up technique folowed by Muay Thai.

You dont see alot of kicks because kicks are risky to the fighter that is kickcing. If he misses then he is mist likely going to be taken to the ground.

To say MMA is just a "bunch of animals" is just stupid. There profesional fighters who train hard and are highly skilled just like boxers.

A boxer will always have a punchers chance in any fight, but the boxer also has no take down defense and could be taken down with ease. Once the fight is on the ground the boxer has no chance because he cant guard himself.

oh yeah Bruce Lee was a fraud.

i think boxers can still ground and pound well with a little training .

i think the term of "animals" may be right in the fact that most guys defnitly look like steroids monkeys. but there are some superbs athletes though.

and yes JOSE that 120 pounds screaming midget was a fraud

jose , react !

jose react !

MMA is okay i like K1 allthough the level isnt near boxing.

And yes the top hw would whop every k1 and uc fighter, damn Botha who is an okay hw pro can beat some of them, and look at botha now old, out of shape and way past his prime.

I dont realy like the grappling, its to boring but the fights with the normal k1 rules with punches, kicks, knees and sometimes elbows are cool.

ok!!

As far as Botha goes he' hasn't been able to compete. He's only won 2 fight and has like 7 or 8 losses. One fight that he won was because the guy he was fighting hurt himself when he was kicking and couldn't continue.

Ground and Pouns is more than just getting on top of a guy and swinging. You also need to learn how to position yourself right, you need to learn how to avoid and stay out of submisions aswell.

why does it say that jose answered and that was leff instead ?

and leff , did you see that shannon briggs did well too in k1 ?

ok it worked

why does it say that jose answered and that was leff instead ?

and leff , did you see that shannon briggs did well too in k1 ?

No havent seen it, do you know ere i can find som of his k1 fights it?

How exactly was Bruce Lee a fraud? I hear alot of people say this.

How exactly was Bruce Lee a fraud? I hear alot of people say this.


he never actually beat anyone,fought in anything worth mentioning or won anything

he never actually beat anyone,fought in anything worth mentioning or won anything

Sammo Hung challenged him to a fight during the production of Enter the Dragon and got KO'd easily. This is by Sammo Hung's admission. Bruce Lee was challenged to a fight on the production of Enter the Dragon almost DAILY.

Now that I think about it, everyone I know who calls Bruce Lee a fraud studies more modern martial arts styles.

Have you actually read about him? Or watched any video of him other than the movies he stared him?

they say that norris and a big guy (i dont remember it s name) tried to fight him while shooting a movie and that he kicked both asses.

still a 122 pound guy with no significant victory is far from a fight master as jose said.

they say that norris and a big guy (i dont remember it s name) tried to fight him while shooting a movie and that he kicked both asses.

still a 122 pound guy with no significant victory is far from a fight master as jose said.

That would be Bob Wall, an Amercian professional Karate Champ. He studied with Norris. and yes Bruce Lee kicked his ass.

I dunno, that is pretty damn significant.

I mean, Chuck Zito KO'd Jean Claude Van Damme with a sucker punch but nobody said any less of him because of it.

All I am saying is, Lee may not have fought professinally, but that doesn't make him a fraud. He fought for real PLENTY of times.

I think a fight outside a tournament setting where there are less rules is more telling than a fight inside.

Ive fought real a couple of times, it doesnt make a fighting legend what oposition did lee realy have? Did he fight any boxers?

Van Dame was never even a fighter. He was a gymnast. He claimed he won a world middleweight kickboxing title and he never did.

Those are all rumors and urban legands with Lee. I dont doubt he could beat Hung. Hell you can find websites and books that say Bruce Lee walked on water. alot more is myth than actual fact.

Lee also never fought Norris. Norris was a real fighter and a real world champion

Van Dame was never even a fighter. He was a gymnast. He claimed he won a world middleweight kickboxing title and he never did.

Those are all rumors and urban legands with Lee. I dont doubt he could beat Hung. Hell you can find websites and books that say Bruce Lee walked on water. alot more is myth than actual fact.

Lee also never fought Norris. Norris was a real fighter and a real world champion

I don't think one should make generalizations like that. Saying those are ALL rumors and urban legends. There are URBAN LEGENDS and Rumors. But there are also incidents that have been confirmed. Hell, there are plenty of people who say Bruce Lee worked for the Triads. So there are rumors that go both ways.

What I have SEEN, is footage of him hitting a 100lb heavybag.
What I have SEEN, is him doing a two finger pushup.
What I have SEEN, is his agility in a demonstration.

I read that Lee fought Bob Wall during Enter the Dragon. Bob Wall won't admit it took place but people who witnessed it say it did. They say Bruce beat him. Wall WAS a professional Karate Champ.

Sammo Hung HIMSELF said he challenged Bruce Lee to a fight and Lee KO'd him.

How much about him have you seen and read Jose? I am not trying to be combative, I am just saying it may not be a good idea to dismiss someone as a fraud unless you have done the research yourself.

I guess all I am trying to say is that, I believe what I do about him because I have read statements from people who saw it or participated in it. Not just because someone told me they heard it from so and so.

If you believe he is a fraud just cuz someone said so, then you fall into the same rumor trap as those who believe he walked on water.

in fact what is really annoying is the retards with acne explaining me that bruce lee could kill with "whatthe****yadragonpower" tecknik of "jumbojet to NY kune do" .not to mention the karate newspapers making a "special bruce lee " every month.

made me leephobiac. plus he was a great martial artist but a poor actor.

Oh yeah, the hype surrounding him IS irritating. I agree.

There ARE many myths about him. But because there are things that aren't true that people say, it doesn't mean he was a fraud. If you say he was a fraud then you are discounting what IS true and documented as well.

anyway , he is dead . lets look forward. JET LI is a fantastic martial artist waisting his talent in poor movies , dont ya think ?

plus he is a good actor when playin the bad guy, he was scary in lethal weapon 4 .

Agree completely.

I thought he was excellent in HERO though.
The new movie by Luc Besson UNleashed looks promising too.

I loved Jet Li in Swordsman 2. I think that was the best acting job he ever did.

I don't think one should make generalizations like that. Saying those are ALL rumors and urban legends. There are URBAN LEGENDS and Rumors. But there are also incidents that have been confirmed. Hell, there are plenty of people who say Bruce Lee worked for the Triads. So there are rumors that go both ways.

What I have SEEN, is footage of him hitting a 100lb heavybag.
What I have SEEN, is him doing a two finger pushup.
What I have SEEN, is his agility in a demonstration.

I read that Lee fought Bob Wall during Enter the Dragon. Bob Wall won't admit it took place but people who witnessed it say it did. They say Bruce beat him. Wall WAS a professional Karate Champ.

Sammo Hung HIMSELF said he challenged Bruce Lee to a fight and Lee KO'd him.

How much about him have you seen and read Jose? I am not trying to be combative, I am just saying it may not be a good idea to dismiss someone as a fraud unless you have done the research yourself.

Wow Bruce looked great in the gym I can name a million other fighters from every fighting sport that look amazing in the gym. Everyone looks great hitting the bag.


Hell im the one who posted that two finger push up video in the gallery. Im not impressed.

about Wall like you said is there any VIDEO of this? no of course there isn't its just all hear say and rumors. All the videos that exist on his are all exabisions.

Bruce Lee never worked for any triads he was never a gangster he was an actor from day 1. I think he got his first part when he was a child.

All I keep hearing is Samo Hung so what? Listen take Bruce Lee in his prime and if you would have brought Heilo Gracie over from Brazil at that time he would have murdered Bruce Lee.

Fact is Lee never won anything or even competed in anything worth mentioning. There are no videos of all these supposed fights.

Wow Bruce looked great in the gym I can name a million other fighters from every fighting sport that look amazing in the gym. Everyone looks great hitting the bag.


Hell im the one who posted that two finger push up video in the gallery. Im not impressed.


I was merely citing this in addition to the fights against prominent martial artists he was involved in.


about Wall like you said is there any VIDEO of this? no of course there isn't its just all hear say and rumors. All the videos that exist on his are all exabisions.

A real fight is unlikely to be caught on video. No matter WHO the combatants are. So really the standard of proof you demand is an unfair one.

Just because there isn't video evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen.

****, there was no video evidence of OJ killing NIcole. You gonna say he didn't do it? Hell, there wasn't even a witness!!! There WERE witnesses to the fights I talked about.

Bruce Lee never worked for any triads he was never a gangster he was an actor from day 1. I think he got his first part when he was a child.

I just said the triad thing was a rumor. It is true that he acted as a child. But that doesn't mean he acted from childhood until adulthood. In between he immigrated to the US and began a martial arts school.

All I keep hearing is Samo Hung so what? Listen take Bruce Lee in his prime and if you would have brought Heilo Gracie over from Brazil at that time he would have murdered Bruce Lee.

That is pure speculation. Why bother?

Fact is Lee never won anything or even competed in anything worth mentioning. There are no videos of all these supposed fights.

I can understand where you are coming from. I don't believe the measure in a martial artist is in trophies, rankings, or tournaments. Such scenarios are SPORT settings in my opinion, so of COURSE there would be video footage.

We don't have video footage of many great fighters throughout history. DOes that mean they are ALL FRAUDS and could be destroyed by the fighters of today?

Hell, the same could be said of history in general. Much isn't on video should it be disbelieved?

Anyways, it is clear we are coming from different perspectives on martial arts and will not be able to convince eachother. So why don't we agree to disagree?

calm down guys .

who cares about his capacities as a warrior , we are in year 2005 , the real question is would he **** Paris HILTON ?

be modern for godsake

http://imgsrv.gsol.it/upddv/snew/paris-hilton.jpg


http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/j/v/jvn103/PICS/bruce%20lee%20pose1.jpg

I would almost be scared to.

She has the EXACT same expression on her face in EVERY picture I see.

hmmmmmmm but maybe she is just waiting for me to change it.

so would have bruce lee ****ed paris hilton ?

oscar de la hoya did .

I think so. Even if he was married. If the opportunity presented itself.

Jose, please forgive me. I could not resist.

I was merely citing this in addition to the fights against prominent martial artists he was involved in.




A real fight is unlikely to be caught on video. No matter WHO the combatants are. So really the standard of proof you demand is an unfair one.

Just because there isn't video evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen.

****, there was no video evidence of OJ killing NIcole. You gonna say he didn't do it? Hell, there wasn't even a witness!!! There WERE witnesses to the fights I talked about.



I just said the triad thing was a rumor. It is true that he acted as a child. But that doesn't mean he acted from childhood until adulthood. In between he immigrated to the US and began a martial arts school.



That is pure speculation. Why bother?



I can understand where you are coming from. I don't believe the measure in a martial artist is in trophies, rankings, or tournaments. Such scenarios are SPORT settings in my opinion, so of COURSE there would be video footage.

We don't have video footage of many great fighters throughout history. DOes that mean they are ALL FRAUDS and could be destroyed by the fighters of today?

Hell, the same could be said of history in general. Much isn't on video should it be disbelieved?

a real fight is in a ring or sactioned with someone of equal talent not beating up some drunk in a bar or beating some extra on a movie set.

The jurry found him inocent. If you think he killed her than thats only your opnion.

No its not specualtion. The fight would not have been close.

Well if fans are gonna call him agreat fighter dont you think they ought to have a little more to back there point rather than just some rumors?

No we pretty much have footage of every great fighter in the modern era and Bruce Lee should be part of that considering its not like he fought in 1910 or anything.

Jose, please forgive me. I could not resist.


Yes I just noticed this. I also notice all the option to change your title are gone aswell.

a real fight is in a ring or sactioned with someone of equal talent not beating up some drunk in a bar or beating some extra on a movie set.

The jurry found him inocent. If you think he killed her than thats only your opnion.

No its not specualtion. The fight would not have been close.

Well if fans are gonna call him agreat fighter dont you think they ought to have a little more to back there point rather than just some rumors?

No we pretty much have footage of every great fighter in the modern era and Bruce Lee should be part of that considering its not like he fought in 1910 or anything.




Yes I just noticed this. I also notice all the option to change your title are gone aswell.

As I said, we are approaching this from different perspectives. To me a sanctioned fight is a sport. A real fight IS one that means life and death.

Like I also said, we are probably best served to agree to disagree.

As I said, we are approaching this from different perspectives. To me a sanctioned fight is a sport. A real fight IS one that means life and death.

Like I also said, we are probably best served to agree to disagree.


A fight in the ring does mean life or death consider there have been far too many to die in the ring.

A fight in the ring does mean life or death consider there have been far too many to die in the ring.

It isn't life and death because KILLING your opponent is not your goal.

If someone dies in the ring or octagon, it is not intentional. Why elese would you have safety equipment, rules and a referee?

In the ring, winning and hurting your opponent are not the same thing.

In a real fight, the more you hurt your opponent the better.

It isn't life and death because KILLING your opponent is not your goal.

If someone dies in the ring or octagon, it is not intentional. Why elese would you have safety equipment, rules and a referee?

In the ring, winning and hurting your opponent are not the same thing.

In a real fight, you the more you hurt your opponent the better.



great point...in a real fight you can do things like gouge someone in the eyes, punch their balls, crush their windpipe...you can not do these things in a tournament.

In a real fight it is unlikely you will be wearing gloves and hand wraps.

In a REAL FIGHT Bruce would beat out anybody. :)

In a REAL FIGHT Bruce would beat out anybody. :)

Hell no

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

Hell no



iz a joke. :)

The message you have entered is too smart. Please dumbass your message to at least 10 levels.

eu tambem curto mma e k1

I love Mixed Martial Arts. Huge Pride and UFC fan and need to find more Hook 'n' Shoot tapes fast but can't get into K-1 at all. Don't know why, even when guys I like or pro wrestlers do it.

great point...in a real fight you can do things like gouge someone in the eyes, punch their balls, crush their windpipe...you can not do these things in a tournament.



I have never seen anyone win a street fight using any of those methods.

I've been punched & booted dead in the balls in many a street fight....& it had no effect (please, place lame "no balls" joke/ comment in next post).

People who talk about that **** working have no real street fighting experience.

Pride is awesome. I've become a big fan of it.
Those guys would murder 99% of the population in a street fight.

All I keep hearing is Samo Hung so what? Listen take Bruce Lee in his prime and if you would have brought Heilo Gracie over from Brazil at that time he would have murdered Bruce Lee.

Fact is Lee never won anything or even competed in anything worth mentioning. There are no videos of all these supposed fights.

Exactly! Personally, I don't think Bruce Lee could hang with most of the top names in MMA today. They are just far better trained and well more adapted to varities of fighting skills. A Tito Ortiz or Vanderlai Silva who whoever matches up to Bruce Lee's weight would murder him.

any top featherweight would murder bruce lee.*

dont say it to JOSE he is a bruce lee worshiper

As I said, we are approaching this from different perspectives. To me a sanctioned fight is a sport. A real fight IS one that means life and death.

So what you're saying is that unless one guy gets the **** kicked out of him to the point of him breathing his last breath that it's not a fight? Have a word with yourself mate.

for sure a great boxer would do well especially an heavyweight with one punch KO power.

look at botha he is at best a second tier heavyweight with no talent and he beated top kickboxers in K1.

Who has Botha beat who didn't lose the fight by hurting himself?

Most heavyweight boxers would get beat. Of course they would have a punchers chance but the likes of a Frank Mir would go straight to the ground or keep using kicks and the boxer would have no other form of offense. I was cringing when WWE was negociating with Lennox Lewis and Michael Moorer to fight Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle with their previous legit wrestling creditials.

Some of you guys have no idea about fighting. If you're interessted in real fighting check out if there's a Wing Tsun gym in your city. It's the most complete and effective way of killing someone wihtout weapons at close distance. And there's no other fighting art even close to Wing Tsuns top spot at close distance.

Bruce Lee had a high position in the school of WT before he decided to leave it. He could've killed any boxer of any time without sweating. Just like Leung Ting or Keith R. Kernspecht could do the same today.

By the way you don't become a great fighter by showing every one your skills. There are no WT Tournaments because this isn't a sport. It's a fighting art that if you have to use in real life it's already to late for you and your opponent. And there are no rules in the streets. Of course every good Boxer would beat a WT practician in the ring with boxing rules. But that's the only place where he could dominate.

PS: For those of you who are interessted in fighting with weapons try Escrima.

So what you're saying is that unless one guy gets the **** kicked out of him to the point of him breathing his last breath that it's not a fight?

That's what he's saying and he's totally right. A real fight has no rules and no breaks between "rounds". It's a big difference between competeing in a sport or tournament and fighting without any rules. In boxing gyms you learn how to score with a punch, in WT gyms you learn how to kill with a movement.

Some of you guys have no idea about fighting. If you're interessted in real fighting check out if there's a Wing Tsun gym in your city. It's the most complete and effective way of killing someone wihtout weapons at close distance. And there's no other fighting art even close to Wing Tsuns top spot at close distance.

Bruce Lee had a high position in the school of WT before he decided to leave it. He could've killed any boxer of any time without sweating. Just like Leung Ting or Keith R. Kernspecht could do the same today.

By the way you don't become a great fighter by showing every one your skills. There are no WT Tournaments because this isn't a sport. It's a fighting art that if you have to use in real life it's already to late for you and your opponent. And there are no rules in the streets. Of course every good Boxer would beat a WT practician in the ring with boxing rules. But that's the only place where he could dominate.

PS: For those of you who are interessted in fighting with weapons try Escrima.

That post made me laugh out loud.

The two most effective forms of stand up are Boxing and Muay Thai and and anyone who doubts that is really the one who knows nothing about fighting.

Please spare me the whole this is too deadly to practice in real life bull****.

In boxing gyms you learn how to score with a punch, in WT gyms you learn how to kill with a movement.

hahaha

this guy is on a roll

That post made me laugh out loud.

The two most effective forms of stand up are Boxing and Muay Thai and and anyone who doubts that is really the one who knows nothing about fighting.

Please spare me the whole this is too deadly to practice in real life bull****.

Have you ever heard of Wing Tsun or are you just trying to be funny? It is without a doubt the most effective form in close distance. You can ask anyone who has ever trained it or seen a Sifu practicing.

I'm cracking up hard at these mofos too. Killing a guy is the only ends of winning a real fight? So basically you have to be a murderer to be a tough guy now. ****ing morons.

hahaha

this guy is on a roll

I'm just wasting my time with you right? Either you accept that I don't have to brag about the art I practice or we can't have a proper discussion.

Have you ever heard of Wing Tsun or are you just trying to be funny? It is without a doubt the most effective form in close distance. You can ask anyone who has ever trained it or seen a Sifu practicing.

I have found Muay Thai and boxing to be the most effective street fighting techniques.

Sorry but i just dont rate martial arts anymore becasue i seen so many black belts get a beating from average boxers and Muay thai fighters.

I'll admit there are some very good fighter who do martial arts but in general there not so good.

I'm cracking up hard at these mofos too. Killing a guy is the only ends of winning a real fight? So basically you have to be a murderer to be a tough guy now. ****ing morons.

You don't understand me pal. If you do boxing, kickboxing or Taekwando, Judo or Jiu Jitsu or whatever you can have a competition and try to win. You learn it to be succesfull at it. If you do WT you learn it to defend yourself and that's it. And if I have to defend myself I can't wait for my opponent to raise at the count of 11 and celebrate. I'm not good enough yet to judge all my moves to reduce their impact to a point were they don't seriously hurt. Try it yourself and you'll understand what I mean.

And you don't become a tough guy by beating up anyone. You're tough if you can avoid that.

I have found Muay Thai and boxing to be the most effective street fighting techniques.

Sorry but i just dont rate martial arts anymore becasue i seen so many black belts get a beating from average boxers and Muay thai fighters.

I'll admit there are some very good fighter who do martial arts but in general there not so good.

There are no black belts in WT, it is completly different from most material arts as f.e. Ju-Jitsu. A lot of elite police or military forces learn "Blitz Defense" which is a shortcut form of WT, for example the German GSG9.

Have you ever trained WT or seen a Sifu teaching?

In case somebody misunderstood me because english is still a foreign language for me I've searched the net to give you some well written information:

What is WT?
History
Legend has it that Wing Tsun was created over 300 years ago in southern China by a Buddhist nun named Ng Mui. The young girl Yim Wing Tsun, after whom the martial art is named, was Ng Mui's first student. Refined through the generations by the coastal and urban inhabitants of southeast China, Wing Tsun gained international prominence through the efforts of the Hong Kong students of the late Grandmaster Yip Man. Perhaps the most famous of these students was Bruce Lee.
In the early 1970's, Leung Ting, the last "closed-door disciple" of the late Grandmaster Yip Man, devoted all of his energies to promoting the development of Wing Tsun—first in Hong Kong and later in Europe. Leung Ting and his head European student, Keith R. Kernspecht, standardized the Wing Tsun curriculum to make it more palatable to Westerners and more applicable to the modern-day needs of civilians (as well as soldiers and law enforcement officers).

In the mid-1980's Sifu Emin Boztepe emerged as the best Wing Tsun fighter, and Keith R. Kernspecht's top student. Taking charge of the development of Wing Tsun in the U.S. and parts of Europe, Sifu Emin began to add his own innovations to the Wing Tsun curriculum, including: the Anti-Grappling program, control techniques for law enforcement, and modifications to the existing program to make it more realistic. Sifu Emin soon acquired quite an international following, thanks to his realistic and sincere teaching methods—which are based on his vast experience applying Wing Tsun in the real world.

Now independent of the international and European Wing Tsun organizations, Sifu Emin continues to innovate and spread Wing Tsun internationally for the benefit of all people under the banner of the EBMAS organization.


WT is the acronym for Wing Tsun, a realistic, scientific method of self-defense. It is considered a "soft" or "flexible" style of Chinese Kung-Fu, in that it relies on efficiency, relaxation, and movement, rather than rigidity or brute strength.

Wing Tsun is an alive system of concepts and priciples, not a mere collection of movements and "dead" techniques. Wing Tsun offers unlimited freedom of movement and expression to those who learn to internalize the concepts and apply them to all aspects of life.

Although considered a "traditional" martial art, WingTsun (WT) is the product of continuous research and development for over 250 years. The WingTsun (WT) system was initially devised by a woman, to protect her against a much stronger attacker, she devised a system that would work WITH and not AGAINST the power of an attacker. This fact sets the WingTsun (WT) system apart from other martial styles where power and size determine success.

Once a strong foundation in the basic principles of WingTsun (WT) has been developed by the student, the level of self-defence skills and each individual's physical capabilities will have greatly increased. Each student will have a greater understanding of what it takes mentally and physically to defend yourself and your loved ones - should the need ever arise. Best of all you will have a fun and interesting work-out, in a relaxed and friendly environment, meet people with similar interests and at the same time, increasing your knowledge of your body while you are learning. The WingTsun (WT) system is the largest professional martial arts organisation in the world, with in excess of 2,500 schools - just in Europe alone!

The WingTsun (WT) self-defence techniques are taught and practised by international elite police and military units such as the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team, GSG9 (Germany), NOCS (Italy) and the US Marines, to name just a few.

The WingTsun system is self defence in its most efficient and consistent form. Your own physical strength or prior abilities NEED NOT be the decisive factor in a threatening situation. The young or physically weak are always the first targets of aggressors. However, ANY person without major physical disabilities can gain self confidence and a level of fitness which will increase their self defence abilities by 500%. WingTsun training will teach you to direct the force of an attack against the attacker, i.e. to 'borrow' the energy of the attacker, 'charging up' one's own body and then effortlessly redirecting the energy back against its source. The Leung Ting system is one of the very few self defence systems that prepare you for every phase of a fight, using feet, fists, elbows and knees. Instead of retreating, a WingTsun student will advance and glue themselves to their assailant, rendering them unable to continue their attack. This proximity, combined with well-defined movements, will force the attacker into a helpless position. Advanced WingTsun students turn into an instant nightmare for any aggressor.

For more information about WingTsun® we highly recommend the book ON SINGLE COMBAT by Grandmaster K.R. Kernspecht.

I have found Muay Thai and boxing to be the most effective street fighting techniques.

Sorry but i just dont rate martial arts anymore becasue i seen so many black belts get a beating from average boxers and Muay thai fighters.

I'll admit there are some very good fighter who do martial arts but in general there not so good.

Exactly. We have seen tons of these experts in Kung-Fu and other martial arts try and fight MMA and they all get beaten and beaten badly. Ron Van Clief is suppossed to be this great martial artist and Royce Gracie clowned him. I dont buy any guy who tells me his stuff is too deadly to practice in real life.

I found this awhile back. I get a kick out of it everytime I watch it.
http://s8.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0V8QJ0OFJXXA30ETTESII8YHT0

I'm not good enough yet to judge all my moves to reduce their impact to a point were they don't seriously hurt. Try it yourself and you'll understand what I mean.


So this would mean you cant actually spar because you would "kill" everyone you used this on. So your telling me your class consist of you punching at air and hitting a dummy?

So this would mean you cant actually spar because you would "kill" everyone you used this on. So your telling me your class consist of you punching at air and hitting a dummy?

No, we can spar like everyone else but only under rules and if we don't use all technics and if we don't execute when our partner is lost. But basicly you're right if you're saying that you can't spar real WT. If you do Escrima you can spar with a wooden sword and protection gear as well but if two people would have a normal sword one of them would get hurt badly.

And yes, some of my training consists of me punching in the air and hitting a dummy. Most of the times I learn movements and how to use the force of my opponent. Your training partner acts like your enemey and you defend yourself. Normal students (maybe till the 1fst Technician Grade) are only teached to defend themselves. But you learn forms as well. If you're interessted what WT training is like I suggest you go to http://www.wingtsun.com.au/site/AboutWT/blitzdefence.html and read the things under "About WT".

Its pretty safe to say everyone of these WingTsun sites you link or get stuff from is gonna say its the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Thats like me getting a Pac article from the Manilla Times.

also the FBI and othe agencies around the world train in Boxing, Muay Thai, Gracie Jui Jitsu...etc. None train in just one thing.

Basically what your trying to tell me that this form has never been proven in actual filmed fights(UFC, Pride..etc,) against other qualified fighters, Its so deadly you cant practice all out in the gym.

So its pretty much all in theory.

I found this awhile back. I get a kick out of it everytime I watch it.
http://s8.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0V8QJ0OFJXXA30ETTESII8YHT0

The so called kungfu expert in this video isn't trained in ground technics and doesn't use any of WTs technics (we learn ground technics and about positions on the ground). He gets a free lesson there but he's far from being an expert or a good representative of Kungfu let alone WT which is totally different.

I have trained in Martial Arts, wrestled in high school and had 12 amateur boxing matches. I am both a fan of UFC/Pride and boxing. However I like watching boxing better, MMA has been reduced to the wrestlers taking over and just ground and pounding the opponent to a decision victory...VERY VERY boring to watch. Not only that...I believe most of the top athletes in boxing are much more talented world class athletes than the top guys in MMA...the key word is MOST not all. Also don't let people fool you into thinking boxers can't be effective in MMA...problem is that so far the boxers representing in MMA have been of ****ty quality...I guarantee you if Mike Tyson as washed up as he is, entered UFC he would decapitate 99% of the fighters put in front of him with just his fists alone.


....Yeah, I have never trained in martial arts, my ***** friends rassled in high school while I played basketball and football, and I have never had any boxing experience, but I bet I would beat your ass from pilar to post in a real scrap.:) Seriously though, Tyson would have gotten his ass kicked in there just like Botha did. Lets not forget that the "great" ha ha Frans Botha was beating Tysons ass when he got hit with one lucky punch. The Gracies would fricking tie Tyson in a not and he would be finished.

The so called kungfu expert in this video isn't trained in ground technics and doesn't use any of WTs technics (we learn ground technics and about positions on the ground). He gets a free lesson there but he's far from being an expert or a good representative of Kungfu let alone WT which is totally different.

Oh of course.

Im sure all these guys who you say would be good represenatives would just love to go in and prove themselves...oh wait*rolleyes*.

I never once heard a fighter say he used WT.

Its pretty safe to say everyone of these WingTsun sites you link or get stuff from is gonna say its the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Thats like me getting a Pac article from the Manilla Times.

also the FBI and othe agencies around the world train in Boxing, Muay Thai, Gracie Jui Jitsu...etc. None train in just one thing.

Basically what your trying to tell me that this form has never been proven in actual filmed fights(UFC, Pride..etc,) against other qualified fighters, Its so deadly you cant practice all out in the gym.

So its pretty much all in theory.

If you learn how to use a gun you normally don't learn it by shooting someone. Of course it's theory at the beginning.

Have you seen actual filmed fights where there are no rounds, no gloves, no referes, no ring, no rules, no prize money or announcers? WT Practicians are teached to avoid fighting. We use our knowledge if we have to. What would happen in Pride if someone would stick his finger into his opponents eyes or nerve points? Or if someone would kick his opponent to the groin? These are no explict WT technics ( :D ) but maybe it'll help you to understand.

And I'm not saying that the stars competing in UFC or Pride are helpless bums but they wouldn't be able to beat up Kernspecht.

Oh of course.

Im sure all these guys who you say would be good represenatives would just love to go in and prove themselves...oh wait*rolleyes*.

I never once heard a fighter say he used WT.

So you're trying to prove me wrong that WT is the most effective close distance form by showing a video of someone not even trained in WT getting crushed on the ground? *rolleyes*

You are talking of Pride "fighters" right? WT is a popular art because of its stand out effectivness so you should've met some people if you're into fighting arts and train yourself.

Your entire argument basically is.

Well I have no proof of any kind to show this is the most effective style out there, but take my word for it.

Your entire argument basically is.

Well I have no proof of any kind to show this is the most effective style out there, but take my word for it.

So you're not training any fighting art yourself and all your knowledge is based on the shows you see on TV or the Internet right?

If you want a proof go to a Wing Tsun or Wing Chun dojo and train yourself.

So you're not training any fighting art yourself and all your knowledge is based on the shows you see on TV or the Internet right?

If you want a proof go to a Wing Tsun or Wing Chun dojo and train yourself.


I Box and no I never met anyone who trains in WT and im talking about all fighters.

I Box and no I never met anyone who trains in WT and im talking about all fighters.

Well, so you're talking about something you don't even know, trying to judge it and its effectivness without knowing a single rule.

For how long have you been boxing? And have you ever tried anything else? Have you ever been unlucky enough to have a streetfight?

I've trained boxing for some time (only half a year though). At this stage of my life I went to Italy with my school class. I thought of myself as pretty talented and good (I've always been a lil arrogant ;) ). In my class there was a friend of mine who was training WT for about 1 year. We joked around and somehow came to the discussion wether boxing or WT would be the more effective. And he proved me wrong. I tried everything I knew back than (which certainly wasn't good enough to make this story an objective one) and he just showed me how to counter it. Two weeks after that I went to his WT dojo and after having a tryout I was accepted.

Since than I've seen a lot of other fighting arts and people who thought that WT was nothing more than another freakin chinese theory who got proved wrong. I've seen my teacher toying with Taekwando and Ju-Jitsu black belts and well trained boxers. If you ask a objective student of all available and well know forms he'll confirm me.

If you're happy with boxing that's fine. But I can assure you that every well trained WT person would toy around with you. If you don't believe me try it yourself. It's the only way for you to find out.

And as far as UFC goes. It doesn't proof anything since no great Master of any traditional fighting art ever participated.

Plus I just got this to help you understand:

From the UFC web site, These are the fouls - Not Allowed.....
Butting with the head.
Eye gouging of any kind.
Biting.
Hair pulling.
Fish hooking.
Groin attacks of any kind.
Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
Small joint manipulation.
Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
Grabbing the clavicle.
Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
Stomping a grounded opponent.
Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
****ing an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
Spitting at an opponent.
Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
Holding the ropes or the fence.
Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
Interference by the corner.
Throwing in the towel during competition.

Im sitting here still waiting for you to provide me with an ounce of proof. Like I said before all I get you from you is uh...uh...uh...uh...just take my word for it

I do find it funny as hell that you said MMA does not prove anything because no one of any worth has ever competed, but then go on to say that your Sifu has toyed with Boxers and Ju Jitsu fighters...Oh im sorry did Bernard Hopkins and Rickson Gracie take a trip over to your little DoJo?

The singel most effective form of fighting in the world is Brazilian Ju Jitsu and its not up for debate.

The two best forms of stand up in the world are Boxing and Muay Thai.

do you know how we know this?

because we have seen fighters from these backgrounds fight and PROVE they are the best techniques. They dont sit back and talk all kind of **** about how deadly they are and how this and that, they go out and fight foreal.

Im sorry until I see a proffesional fighter introduced like and fighting out of the blue couner he's a master in the art of WingTsun. I will continue to dismiss it just like I do every other bull**** art that its participants tell me is "too deadly" to practice in real life.

The best way to fight, is to cheat. :D

me i pratice TINO WUSHOTHAI

consists mainly of brekaing bottles on skulls , fingers in the eyes , kicks in the balls , and biting ears .

very effective , and training is light , mainly drinkin beer .

Well, I'm wasting my time. I've told you over and over again that I'd suggest you better see it yourself and go to a WT dojo.

You keep telling me about sportive competitions and mention "fighting for real" in the next senteces. You seem to have no clue at all. Have you ever had a street fight, been kicked to the groin and told the guy that he wasn't allowed to do that? Because that's what I think you'd do out of your comments.

There's no ultimate fighting art, there are only more or less effective in every part of the game. Brazilian Ju Jitsu is not up for debate? Gimme a break. You've never heard of JKD or anything else, huh?

I'm tired of trying to convince you of a "Bull**** art". Just shows your ignorance. Keep on watching them UFC and whatever shows and believe that they are the real deal. Someday you'll find out yourself.

Well, I'm wasting my time. I've told you over and over again that I'd suggest you better see it yourself and go to a WT dojo.

You keep telling me about sportive competitions and mention "fighting for real" in the next senteces. You seem to have no clue at all. Have you ever had a street fight, been kicked to the groin and told the guy that he wasn't allowed to do that? Because that's what I think you'd do out of your comments.

There's no ultimate fighting art, there are only more or less effective in every part of the game. Brazilian Ju Jitsu is not up for debate? Gimme a break. You've never heard of JKD or anything else, huh?

I'm tired of trying to convince you of a "Bull**** art". Just shows your ignorance. Keep on watching them UFC and whatever shows and believe that they are the real deal. Someday you'll find out yourself.


God your a tool.

Why dont you tell guys like Gerald McClelan, Meldrick Taylor, Jimmy Garcia and Du Ko Kim that boxing "aint real".

Why dont you go tell guys like Tim Silvia, Heath Hearing that MMA is "not real"

If you think the only "real fights" are street fights then you are a dumbass.

Yes Brazilian Ju Jitsu is the most effective form of fighting in the world thats why every single MMA fighter on the planet trains in it and incorperates it into his game.

Im sure you know all about "real fights"...Oh wait you cant fight because your technique is so deadly.

God your a tool.

Why dont you tell guys like Gerald McClelan, Meldrick Taylor, Jimmy Garcia and Du Ko Kim that boxing "aint real".

Why dont you go tell guys like Tim Silvia, Heath Hearing that MMA is "not real"

If you think the only "real fights" are street fights then you are a dumbass.

Yes Brazilian Ju Jitsu is the most effective form of fighting in the world thats why every single MMA fighter on the planet trains in it and incorperates it into his game.

Im sure you know all about "real fights"...Oh wait you cant fight because your technique is so deadly.

Why don't you go to a WT gym and tell them about their "bull**** art"?

Or you got to a KDJ gym and tell them about their "bull**** art".

That's my last post on this "discussion" with you. MMA and UFC rules favour grapplers and Muay Thai practicians. These are NOT fair plattforms for all fighting arts. But since that's all you've ever seen and known it doesn't surprise me that you can't seperate a sport from and a fight.

You have never practiced Brazilian Ju Jitsu nor Gracie Ju Jitsu yourself right? You almost certainly don't know about them either. But keep talking about them, it makes you look even more funny.

Now go watching your "real fights" with gloves and roundgirls and feel free to enjoy a coke and popcorn meanwhile.

And I haven't I told you that we spar as well ...oh wait, I forgot that you ignored everything I've told you the last hour.

Why don't you go to a WT gym and tell them about their "bull**** art"?

Or you got to a KDJ gym and tell them about their "bull**** art".

That's my last post on this "discussion" with you. MMA and UFC rules favour grapplers and Muay Thai practicians. These are NOT fair plattforms for all fighting arts. But since that's all you've ever seen and known it doesn't surprise me that you can't seperate a sport from and a fight.

You have never practiced Brazilian Ju Jitsu nor Gracie Ju Jitsu yourself right? You almost certainly don't know about them either. But keep talking about them, it makes you look even more funny.

Now go watching your "real fights" with gloves and roundgirls and feel free to enjoy a coke and popcorn meanwhile.

And I haven't I told you that we spar as well ...oh wait, I forgot that you ignored everything I've told you the last hour.

Its a bull**** art and its bull**** because the people who train in it like YOU are all talk. Dont sit here and tell me how deadly it is and how its the most effective form of fighting in the world when NO ONE in MMA trains in it and no one who practices WT has every competed in any kind of orginized events. Your sitting here rambling on and on about something and you have no proof what so ever to back up any of your claims. Like I said its pretty much uh take my word for it.

You keep talking all kind of **** about street fights, but then say you cant get in street fights because its just do deadly to use so you avoid them.

No I have never practiced Ju Jitsu, but I have seen plenty of it and I have seen it in real fighting situation unlike some other arts.

Like I said go tell fighters familers who dies or suffered server injuire is the ring that Boxing and MMA "aint real"

Yes you did tell me about your "sparring"

your exact word were
No, we can spar like everyone else but only under rules and if we don't use all technics and if we don't execute when our partner is lost. But basicly you're right if you're saying that you can't spar real WT.

No video came up when I downloaded the kungfu vs. Royce Gracie :(
It was just audio....I used winamp...still nothing. :(

No video came up when I downloaded the kungfu vs. Royce Gracie :(
It was just audio....I used winamp...still nothing. :(

Worked fine when I tried it. Wasn't really worth it though since Royce was just playing with him on the ground.

....Yeah, I have never trained in martial arts, my ***** friends rassled in high school while I played basketball and football, and I have never had any boxing experience, but I bet I would beat your ass from pilar to post in a real scrap.:) Seriously though, Tyson would have gotten his ass kicked in there just like Botha did. Lets not forget that the "great" ha ha Frans Botha was beating Tysons ass when he got hit with one lucky punch. The Gracies would fricking tie Tyson in a not and he would be finished.



Well I agree with you on some things...not the beating my ass part obviously cuz I'll knock the taste out your mouth :D ...But yeah about Tyson in the UFC...why do you think I only said he would kick 99% of people's ass and not 100%. Against Royce Gracie I say it's 50/50...if Tyson lands a shot to the head before Gracie can take him to the ground he will surely knock Gracie the fuk out. But of course if Gracie takes him to the ground Tyson is finished. Look at "The Iceman" Chuck Lidell he is the #1 contender in the light heavyweight division in the UFC he is just about a pure striker(his main dispcipline is kick boxing)...most of his fights end in KO with his fists only...and that includes beating grapplers...he beat Vitor Belfort who is a Gracie disciple...and he knocked the fuk out of Tito Ortiz who wrestles,uses Jujitsu...Lidell KO'd him in the second round...with nothing but strikes...and Lidell is only half as good of the level of a TOP pro boxer as far as speed and reflexes. All I'm saying is so far only ****ty boxers have entered MMA...yes Botha is a sack of ****. Imagine if someone like Tyson in his prime entered he would kick alot of ass...and the success of Chuck Lidell is proof that a striker with some devestating hands can be very successful in MMA.

Liddel is also an All American wrestler.

As for the MMA and UFC rules favouring grapplers and Muay Thai practicians, that's bull****. Back in the early days of UFC when there was next to no rules, after Royce Gracie had his moment, wrestlers went in a dominated everyone. Ken Shamrock, Kevin Randleman, Mark Coleman, Don Fyre, Dan Severn, Randy Couture, etc just took over. They had to change the rules to stop this happening and open up the competition. Once they did, the most of the wrestlers adapted better than others.

As for the "****ty boxers only" comment above, maybe my head is playing tricks on me but didn't Shannon Briggs and Frans Botha both fight for world heavyweight titles?

Oh and why didn't Ali knock out Antonio Inoki if it's that easy for the great boxers?

There are no black belts in WT, it is completly different from most material arts as f.e. Ju-Jitsu. A lot of elite police or military forces learn "Blitz Defense" which is a shortcut form of WT, for example the German GSG9.

Have you ever trained WT or seen a Sifu teaching?

I took the time to watch some clips before posting, here are the links for others to see.

http://www.wingchun.com/video/wt/KeithKernspetch.mpeg

http://www.wingchun.com/video/wt/GermanWTstuff.mpeg

http://www.wingchun.com/video/wt/PortugueseWTguy.mpeg

I have watched the clips for a second time and still dont see any major differences from many martial arts, it will help you in a street fight but its not IMO as good as Muay thai and Boxing.

Every combat sport is useful against the average man but i have found boxing to most successful in street fights.

As a standing fight there is nothing that compares(even Muay thai) and if someone takes me down they better watch out for my secret weapon!! :D

I took the time to watch some clips before posting, here are the links for others to see.

http://www.wingchun.com/video/wt/KeithKernspetch.mpeg

http://www.wingchun.com/video/wt/GermanWTstuff.mpeg

http://www.wingchun.com/video/wt/PortugueseWTguy.mpeg

I have watched the clips for a second time and still dont see any major differences from many martial arts, it will help you in a street fight but its not IMO as good as Muay thai and Boxing.

The clips you've found show Blitz Denfense and Chain Punches. If you practice WT you will want to immediatly close the distance between you and your opponent because at distance we would be lost against a good kickboxer, or at middle distance aigants a good boxer.

But if you were the boxer and I'd run at you, kicking with my right foot and throwing chain punches (which defend you as well) what would you do? You're not trained in kicking and you're not especially trained in close distance or at the ground. If I throw my chain punches the right way you wont be able to come through with an uppercut and by the time you tried you will have up to 6 punches to your breast or head anyway. I've seen people throwing 8 punches a second and I'm sure there are faster ones.

Boxing is to slow for the streets because you don't have enough time to throw hooks when somebody is punching straight and you can't outjab him and move backwards because he'll follow you. And your totally vulnerable to kicks.

I respect you for getting some information before makeing your statement and therefor I respect your opinion. But Wing Tsun and especially Blitz Defense are created for the streets and Boxing is still more like a sport. At least that's my opinion.

Every combat sport is useful against the average man but i have found boxing to most successful in street fights.

As a standing fight there is nothing that compares(even Muay thai) and if someone takes me down they better watch out for my secret weapon!! :D

The only boy I could imagine in suceeding to take you down would be Tinos mum anyway. :D

The clips you've found show Blitz Denfense and Chain Punches. If you practice WT you will want to immediatly close the distance between you and your opponent because at distance we would be lost against a good kickboxer, or at middle distance aigants a good boxer.

But if you were the boxer and I'd run at you, kicking with my right foot and throwing chain punches (which defend you as well) what would you do? You're not trained in kicking and you're not especially trained in close distance or at the ground. If I throw my chain punches the right way you wont be able to come through with an uppercut and by the time you tried you will have up to 6 punches to your breast or head anyway. I've seen people throwing 8 punches a second and I'm sure there are faster ones.

Boxing is to slow for the streets because you don't have enough time to throw hooks when somebody is punching straight and you can't outjab him and move backwards because he'll follow you. And your totally vulnerable to kicks.

I respect you for getting some information before makeing your statement and therefor I respect your opinion. But Wing Tsun and especially Blitz Defense are created for the streets and Boxing is still more like a sport. At least that's my opinion.

no offense but you really need to go do some homework of fighting.

If youe technique is to come running at someone kicking and throwing chain punches your gonna get your ass kicked.

Boxing is to slow for the streets?

The only boy I could imagine in suceeding to take you down would be Tinos mum anyway. :D

The only boy? you better watch what you say about tino's mum!! She's all woman and i love her :D

http://www.amateursexpremium.com/amazing-fat-women/fatwomen4.jpg

no offense but you really need to go do some homework of fighting.

If youe technique is to come running at someone kicking and throwing chain punches your gonna get your ass kicked.

Boxing is to slow for the streets?

Well, while I'm closing the gap between me and you I'm defending and attacking you at the same time. What would you do?

But it is called "Blitz Defense" for a reason. Normally the WT practician wouldn't be the aggressor. First rule is "Free yourself from your own strenght". A good WT pupil as an good KDJ pupil should be like a glass of water that easily adapts if someone attacks.

The only boy? you better watch what you say about tino's mum!! She's all woman and i love her :D

http://www.amateursexpremium.com/amazing-fat-women/fatwomen4.jpg

Wow, I'd run for me life before being taken to the ground by her. Imagine her on top mountain position. :D

The only boy I could imagine in suceeding to take you down would be Tinos mum anyway. :D


DUDE , let me explain something.

elveiel is what i would call a "friend" here , therefore i enjoy joking with him.

i havent talk to you enough to know you , youre not my friend , so watch what youre sayin.

no offense but you really need to go do some homework of fighting.

If youe technique is to come running at someone kicking and throwing chain punches your gonna get your ass kicked.

Boxing is to slow for the streets?

I think boxing perfect for the street, its a simple and effective self defence.

It was routine to be attacked when i was younger, boxing saved my ass loads of times!! It didnt just save my ass from the thugs but from prison too!! I was able to take out my attackers with a single shots and successfuly claim self defence.

If i had run at the guys doing chain punches and kicks then i'm 99% certain the courts would have seen my actions as more than minimal force.

Your WT technique may work well for you Dude but i think my talent and best self defence is in boxing, i could even attempt that stuff!

My best self defence is being aware of the people around you, assess who's the threat, say the script(so u can tell the courts u did warn them), land a nice big powerful uppercut and light out!! ;)

Well, while I'm closing the gap between me and you I'm defending and attacking you at the same time. What would you do?

But it is called "Blitz Defense" for a reason. Normally the WT practician wouldn't be the aggressor. First rule is "Free yourself from your own strenght". A good WT pupil as an good KDJ pupil should be like a glass of water that easily adapts if someone attacks.


i ve never , i mean NEVER see a glass of water win a streetfight.

DUDE , let me explain something.

elveiel is what i would call a "friend" here , therefore i enjoy joking with him.

i havent talk to you enough to know you , youre not my friend , so watch what youre sayin.

C'mon Tino, your mum is a running gag on boxingscene. Everybody's gonna use her some time. ;)

You know that I'm just kidding but I will stop if it annoys you.

Liddel is also an All American wrestler.

As for the MMA and UFC rules favouring grapplers and Muay Thai practicians, that's bull****. Back in the early days of UFC when there was next to no rules, after Royce Gracie had his moment, wrestlers went in a dominated everyone. Ken Shamrock, Kevin Randleman, Mark Coleman, Don Fyre, Dan Severn, Randy Couture, etc just took over. They had to change the rules to stop this happening and open up the competition. Once they did, the most of the wrestlers adapted better than others.

As for the "****ty boxers only" comment above, maybe my head is playing tricks on me but didn't Shannon Briggs and Frans Botha both fight for world heavyweight titles?

Oh and why didn't Ali knock out Antonio Inoki if it's that easy for the great boxers?


...I would love to think that Heavyweight boxers are the baddest men on the planet because they are supposed to be. However, they are out of their element in that UFC ****. Tyson and Roy Jones turned down a multi milion dollar offer from Gracie just to step into a ring with him. Tyson wouldn't even open his mouth about the offer and Roy said that it "wasn't his thing". At least Jones was smart enough to realize that he would have gotten smoked and basically said it was out of his area of expertise. Tyson would have gotten whiped just like Briggs and Botha did. He would have maybe had a 50/50 record in UFC if he entered when we all thought he was going to.

i ve never , i mean NEVER see a glass of water win a streetfight.

I have seen a glass of beer win a pub fight!! Very nasty :eek:

I think boxing perfect for the street, its a simple and effective self defence.

It was routine to be attacked when i was younger, boxing saved my ass loads of times!! It didnt just save my ass from the thugs but from prison too!! I was able to take out my attackers with a single shots and successfuly claim self defence.

If i had run at the guys doing chain punches and kicks then i'm 99% certain the courts would have seen my actions as more than minimal force.

Your WT technique may work well for you Dude but i think my talent and best self defence is in boxing, i could even attempt that stuff!

My best self defence is being aware of the people around you, assess who's the threat, say the script(so u can tell the courts u did warn them), land a nice big powerful uppercut and light out!! ;)

I like to be asbolutly sure that he isn't going to stand up again. Who knows if he has got a knife or something and if he started **** with me he's likely to use it. Part of our training is to know the laws because this knowledge might be power at a given day. I don't want to hurt anyone but even less I want to get hurt. The higher you go in the school of WT the more you get teached about how to reduce or how to judge the impact of your strikes or holds. Unfortunatly I'm not there yet.

C'mon Tino, your mum is a running gag on boxingscene. Everybody's gonna use her some time. ;)

You know that I'm just kidding but I will stop if it annoys you.

it annoys me .

I have seen a glass of beer win a pub fight!! Very nasty :eek:


yeah glasses of beer are tough customers , glasses of water are *******.

Well, while I'm closing the gap between me and you I'm defending and attacking you at the same time. What would you do?

But it is called "Blitz Defense" for a reason. Normally the WT practician wouldn't be the aggressor. First rule is "Free yourself from your own strenght". A good WT pupil as an good KDJ pupil should be like a glass of water that easily adapts if someone attacks.


Like I said go do some homework ok.

My god man you act like the guy your fighting is just gonna stand there and let you do this stiff. Look at that guy in video throwing those punches thats straight out of a comic book type ****.

Ok good come running right at me kicking and punching, im gonna bob, side step, come up and then beat the living **** out of you.

Be like waaaata my fiend*rolleyes*

no offense but you really need to go do some homework of fighting.

If youe technique is to come running at someone kicking and throwing chain punches your gonna get your ass kicked.

Boxing is to slow for the streets?


....Yeah, and no offense Dude, but in my experience in sizing up a guy and seeing what he has to offer before throwing down, you look like the curl up in ball type of cat when hit with the first good shot. All your training and technique study won't help you one bit when your steping off a curb in front of a seedy bar at 3:00 A.M. and it's the real deal. Truthfully, you don't look like the street fighting type. Maybe they street fight differently in Germany but I just aint buying you as a tough guy. Be honest and tell me how many actual fights you have been in.

Like I said go do some homework ok.

My god man you act like the guy your fighting is just gonna stand there and let you do this stiff. Look at that guy in video throwing those punches thats straight out of a comic book type ****.

Ok good come running right at me kicking and punching, im gonna bob, side step, come up and then beat the living **** out of you.

Be like waaaata my fiend*rolleyes*

Yeah, and if you bob, side step and come up I'll just continue running straight? Of course I'd follow you and I doubt that you'd have the timing to let me come close and hit me while I'm defending myself and hitting you low and high. If you open your arms I have a lot of options to either avoid your punch or work with that arm or continue going straight.

I like to be asbolutly sure that he isn't going to stand up again. Who knows if he has got a knife or something and if he started **** with me he's likely to use it. Part of our training is to know the laws because this knowledge might be power at a given day. I don't want to hurt anyone but even less I want to get hurt. The higher you go in the school of WT the more you get teached about how to reduce or how to judge the impact of your strikes or holds. Unfortunatly I'm not there yet.

I dont really care if i hurt people who attack me, the last guy who picked a fight with got a fractured skull. Its the only language these idiot understand and that fight is probably the reason i havent been in a street fight for years.

Its very important to know the law if you do a combat sport, thats good if the teach you.

....Yeah, and no offense Dude, but in my experience in sizing up a guy and seeing what he has to offer before throwing down, you look like the curl up in ball type of cat when hit with the first good shot. All your training and technique study won't help you one bit when your steping off a curb in front of a seedy bar at 3:00 A.M. and it's the real deal. Truthfully, you don't look like the street fighting type. Maybe they street fight differently in Germany but I just aint buying you as a tough guy. Be honest and tell me how many actual fights you have been in.

I have been in two street fights since I'm practicing WT. One of them at the Oktoberfest last year. I was there with a friend of mine and some trunken idiots smacked his girlfriend at the ass, didn't want to apologize and threatend to beat us up. I broke my wrist at that occassion.

The other incident happend when I was going to the cinema with my girlfriend and we had to hurry and accidently parked the car on a wrong spot that was reserved for someone. We really didn't know until her mother called her during the movie that the police had called to remove the car. So we got out, waited for the police but it didn't come. Shortly afterwards the guy for whom this spot was reserved came and started screaming and shouting at my gf (it's her car and she drove). I couldn't tolerate that, asked him to act like a gentleman and he threatend to be me up. I invited him to and he threw the first punch.

I'm not looking for trouble and if I can I'll talk my way out or run. But if there are (and there have been) situations where you can't avoid it you have to do what has to be done.

You need to clear your PM's tino, *******!!

pm cleared , retard

pm cleared , retard

Yeah but i bet your STD hasnt cleared yet!!

The clips you've found show Blitz Denfense and Chain Punches. If you practice WT you will want to immediatly close the distance between you and your opponent because at distance we would be lost against a good kickboxer, or at middle distance aigants a good boxer.

But if you were the boxer and I'd run at you, kicking with my right foot and throwing chain punches (which defend you as well) what would you do? You're not trained in kicking and you're not especially trained in close distance or at the ground. If I throw my chain punches the right way you wont be able to come through with an uppercut and by the time you tried you will have up to 6 punches to your breast or head anyway. I've seen people throwing 8 punches a second and I'm sure there are faster ones.

Boxing is to slow for the streets because you don't have enough time to throw hooks when somebody is punching straight and you can't outjab him and move backwards because he'll follow you. And your totally vulnerable to kicks.

I respect you for getting some information before makeing your statement and therefor I respect your opinion. But Wing Tsun and especially Blitz Defense are created for the streets and Boxing is still more like a sport. At least that's my opinion.I see where you are coming from, but from my experiences in street fights, you just have to go for what you know and hope you come out on top. What you are talking about is too scripted. It may have it's adavantages against a boxer, but if you plan on running up throwing them crazy punches and kicks like that at someone that can "fight" you will either get side stepped and dropped by some type of hook, or side stepped and picked up and slammed on the side of your face that's just my opinion...

I see where you are coming from, but from my experiences in street fights, you just have to go for what you know and hope you come out on top. What you are talking about is too scripted. It may have it's adavantages against a boxer, but if you plan on running up throwing them crazy punches and kicks like that at someone that can "fight" you will either get side stepped and dropped by some type of hook, or side stepped and picked up and slammed on the side of your face that's just my opinion...

If you side step, I'll side step as well. My aim is to come so close that you can't throw any punches anymore, that's where I'm best trained to work. It's not like I'll close my eyes, scream and run at you. ;)

And if you sidestepp you're still vulnerable to kicks especially as a boxer. Even if you manage (what I find is pretty unrealistic) to beat my hands and hit me clean, I'll have a broken nose and you might have a broken knee.

And of course it sounds scripted if I talk about it. If you would have to describe a left uppercut and when to use it, it would sound scripted as well. The only way to really know and understand is to go to a gym and see yourself.

I dont really care if i hurt people who attack me, the last guy who picked a fight with got a fractured skull. Its the only language these idiot understand and that fight is probably the reason i havent been in a street fight for years.

Its very important to know the law if you do a combat sport, thats good if the teach you.

As a young boy I couldn't punch anyone to the head. Even after a boy punched me like 10 times to the head I couldn't punch back. I only tried to choke him. I've lost this blockade as I got older but I still don't like to hurt anyone. It's not like I'd feel bad while throwing a punch but afterwards when I'm cooling down.

Actually one of the first things I was teached was when and how I was allowed to use WT in real life.

If you side step, I'll side step as well. My aim is to come so close that you can't throw any punches anymore, that's where I'm best trained to work. It's not like I'll close my eyes, scream and run at you. ;)

And if you sidestepp you're still vulnerable to kicks especially as a boxer. Even if you manage (what I find is pretty unrealistic) to beat my hands and hit me clean, I'll have a broken nose and you might have a broken knee.

And of course it sounds scripted if I talk about it. If you would have to describe a left uppercut and when to use it, it would sound scripted as well. The only way to really know and understand is to go to a gym and see yourself.

Like guys who box cant throw short punches, come on now.

and unless your name is Cro Cop kicking in a street fight is a very bad idea. If you miss your body is going swing and put you in a very awkward position and then thats your ass and even if you do land the guy is most likely gonna step right in and send you to the ground.

Like guys who box cant throw short punches, come on now.

and unless your name is Cro Cop kicking in a street fight is a very bad idea. If you miss your body is going swing and put you in a very awkward position and then thats your ass and even if you do land the guy is most likely gonna step right in and send you to the ground.


...Yeah, I could count on uh wel uh um er uh exactly no hands the number of times I saw a guy throw a succesful kick in a street fight!!

Like guys who box cant throw short punches, come on now.

and unless your name is Cro Cop kicking in a street fight is a very bad idea. If you miss your body is going swing and put you in a very awkward position and then thats your ass and even if you do land the guy is most likely gonna step right in and send you to the ground.

We're not talking of some crazy wheel kicks, a simple low kick to the upperthigh or a kick to the knee can be very effective and dont put you in awkward positions. I'm not going to Yakuza Kick anyone.

And normally that guy would step right in even before I landed if I tried to kick high.

As a boxer you need at least a little space to generize power don't you?

We're not talking of some crazy wheel kicks, a simple low kick to the upperthigh or a kick to the knee can be very effective and dont put you in awkward positions. I'm not going to Yakuza Kick anyone.

And normally that guy would step right in even before I landed if I tried to kick high.

As a boxer you need at least a little space to generize power don't you?


oh ok Neo

No kicking of any kind is not good because you take one foot off the ground and compramise your balance and your pretty much gonna be taken down. If your a Muay Thia fighter and you can get a guy in a clich and start throwing knees thats different.

and no a boxer does not need space. Like I said go back and do some homework.

street fighting is dirty .

be dirty , that s what work. and most people tend to froze facing danger , everybody loses at least 50% of their capacities due to stress .

throw punches , low kicks , bite , spit , whatever , you better unleash hell quick , cause it last a few seconds.

i m the creator of the thread , so i m right , thx.

oh ok Neo

No kicking of any kind is not good because you take one foot off the ground and compramise your balance and your pretty much gonna be taken down. If your a Muay Thia fighter and you can get a guy in a clich and start throwing knees thats different.

and no a boxer does not need space. Like I said go back and do some homework.

i m a former amateur boxer ( i m mean i fought in both , not only sparring) , and boxing mixed with muay thai knee bash is deadly , knee bash is easy and deadly.

in one word jose is right. jose is always right anyway.

Liddel is also an All American wrestler.

As for the MMA and UFC rules favouring grapplers and Muay Thai practicians, that's bull****. Back in the early days of UFC when there was next to no rules, after Royce Gracie had his moment, wrestlers went in a dominated everyone. Ken Shamrock, Kevin Randleman, Mark Coleman, Don Fyre, Dan Severn, Randy Couture, etc just took over. They had to change the rules to stop this happening and open up the competition. Once they did, the most of the wrestlers adapted better than others.

As for the "****ty boxers only" comment above, maybe my head is playing tricks on me but didn't Shannon Briggs and Frans Botha both fight for world heavyweight titles?

Oh and why didn't Ali knock out Antonio Inoki if it's that easy for the great boxers?


I never said it would be easy for boxers, in fact I said they would be successful against 99% and not 100% of people...that means they would do good but most likely not dominate. Also Chuck Lidell hardly ever wrestles when he fights in the UFC...what he does is he escapes the grappler's hold then gets back on his feet...then uses his hands most of the time to defeat his opponents. Look at when Lidell beat Tito Ortiz...That fight NEVER went to the ground. Tito Ortiz attempted to take him to the ground but everytime he tried Lidell stopped him from doing so. That fight was almost a pure boxing match. Also just because a boxer fought for a world title does not mean they are any good...Frans Botha is a sack of ****...and Shannon Briggs isn't very good either. Niether of those guys are top boxers.

I never said it would be easy for boxers, in fact I said they would be successful against 99% and not 100% of people...that means they would do good but most likely not dominate. Also Chuck Lidell hardly ever wrestles when he fights in the UFC...what he does is he escapes the grappler's hold then gets back on his feet...then uses his hands most of the time to defeat his opponents. Look at when Lidell beat Tito Ortiz...That fight NEVER went to the ground. Tito Ortiz attempted to take him to the ground but everytime he tried Lidell stopped him from doing so. That fight was almost a pure boxing match. Also just because a boxer fought for a world title does not mean they are any good...Frans Botha is a sack of ****...and Shannon Briggs isn't very good either. Niether of those guys are top boxers.


The fight never went to ground because Lidell has spectacular take down defense.

oh ok Neo

No kicking of any kind is not good because you take one foot off the ground and compramise your balance and your pretty much gonna be taken down. If your a Muay Thia fighter and you can get a guy in a clich and start throwing knees thats different.

and no a boxer does not need space. Like I said go back and do some homework.

well Tank

you're thinking of someone in a ring face to face with his opponent searching for the spot and executing a high roundhouse.

I'm thinking of someone consisently moving forward protecting and attacking with his hands so you can't move in AND going to the knee, the groin or whatever is a nice target whit his free foot. As a boxer you don't want to be on the ground and you can't defend your knee or your upper thigh.

And since when can a boxer create real power by moving his hand 5 cms straight? You're punching totally different to the WT scheme. A good WT punch is harder than a boxers straight punch because it's more concentrated to a single point and a lot faster. It's another story with gloves on. Have you ever tried to break sth. and tried it once with force and once with speed?

be dirty , that s what work. and most people tend to froze facing danger , everybody loses at least 50% of their capacities due to stress .

That's not right. Due to the adrenalin you can take more of a punch, punch harder and get extremly focused.

The fight never went to ground because Lidell has spectacular take down defense.


I agree...of course a boxer will have to learn some things to compete in MMA like takedown defense or a little wrestling, it is MIXED martial arts of course...but I'm just trying to make a point because it seems a lot of these guys dont respect boxing. They think it's just throwing punches like in a street fight without any skill. Anyone who thinks like this, I dare you to go to your local boxing gym and challenge any of the boxers to a spar...you will find out 2 things.
1) The average non boxing civilian really doesn't know how to punch correctly...and will get decapitated by a skilled boxer
2) The average non boxing civilian doesn't know how to take a punch very well especially to the body....and will get decapitated by a skilled boxer.

if you think I'm full of **** take a trip to your local boxing gym and see for yourselves :D

I agree...of course a boxer will have to learn some things to compete in MMA like takedown defense or a little wrestling, it is MIXED martial arts of course...but I'm just trying to make a point because it seems a lot of these guys dont respect boxing. They think it's just throwing punches like in a street fight without any skill. Anyone who thinks like this, I dare you to go to your local boxing gym and challenge any of the boxers to a spar...you will find out 2 things.
1) The average non boxing civilian really doesn't know how to punch correctly...and will get decapitated by a skilled boxer
2) The average non boxing civilian doesn't know how to take a punch very well especially to the body....and will get decapitated by a skilled boxer.

if you think I'm full of **** take a trip to your local boxing gym and see for yourselves :D

1) Punching like teached in Boxing is not the best solution in a street fight since you'll almost certainly hurt your hand.
2) That's right. Normally people aren't used to pain.

And there are no ultimate take down defenses. There are things you get teached and assume them to work but you can never predict what happens in a fight. If there were ultimate take down defenses Pride or UFC would be totally different.

My first time to view this thread and no I'm not into mma but I was nearly blown out of my seat by tino's title.Is that true? Damn, who put that? elveiel or you? elveiel bangs your mum? Ok, must be elveiel.

1) Punching like teached in Boxing is not the best solution in a street fight since you'll almost certainly hurt your hand.
2) That's right. Normally people aren't used to pain.

And there are no ultimate take down defenses. There are things you get teached and assume them to work but you can never predict what happens in a fight. If there were ultimate take down defenses Pride or UFC would be totally different.




You're kidding of course....I took Okinawan Uechi Ryu Karate when I was younger got to brown belt ....before i boxed and wrestled. A lot of the things you learn in traditional Karate just DOES NOT work on the street. Especially the Karate reverse punch which is a joke..not only is it not as powerful as a boxer's punch but you leave yourself wide open for a counter. Even Bruce Lee said this "If you take boxing for a year and wrestling for a year you can defeat any martial artist"....that is true to some degree...The only traditional martial arts that TRULY does work and is worth anything in my opinion is Ju-Jitsu....IN fact the best MMA fighters in my opinion are the ones who mix Brazilian Ju-Jitsu with boxing...BJ Penn is a perfect example- not only will he twist you like a pretzel on the ground with his Ju-Jitsu skills, but if you get on your feet he will knock you the fuk out with his lethal boxing skills...BJ Penn is one of the most dangerous men on the planet.

And since when can a boxer create real power by moving his hand 5 cms straight? You're punching totally different to the WT scheme. A good WT punch is harder than a boxers straight punch because it's more concentrated to a single point and a lot faster. It's another story with gloves on. Have you ever tried to break sth. and tried it once with force and once with speed?


1) Punching like teached in Boxing is not the best solution in a street fight since you'll almost certainly hurt your hand.

Do you know how stupid you sound when you say stuff like this? Im being dead serious here

Do you know how stupid you sound when you say stuff like this? Im being dead serious here



the karate reverse punch does not work on the street i know this from first hand experience....it might have worked a thousand years ago when it was created in Asia...but it does not work in modern society.

the karate reverse punch does not work on the street i know this from first hand experience....it might have worked a thousand years ago when it was created in Asia...but it does not work in modern society.


Thats pretty much the rule for most old martial arts.

Thats pretty much the rule for most old martial arts.



there are exceptions...like Muy Thai and Ju-Jitsu...which are still lethal to this day.

there are exceptions...like Muy Thai and Ju-Jitsu...which are still lethal to this day.

agree

thats what I have been saying for pages

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

the karate reverse punch does not work on the street i know this from first hand experience....it might have worked a thousand years ago when it was created in Asia...but it does not work in modern society.
My gosh, we're not talking of a reverse punch or spinning wheel kicks. We're not talking of traditional kungfu. It has evolved.

Modern WT or WC and especially Blitz Denfese is created for modern days street fights. Either you haven't red or understood what I was talking about three or/and two pages earlier.

Boxing is a sport and it may help you and make you superior to any untrained individual but as soon as you meet someone with MT background you're lost.

Thats pretty much the rule for most old martial arts. That's right but we're not talking about old and traditional martial arts.

there are exceptions...like Muy Thai and Ju-Jitsu...which are still lethal to this day.

If you think the Gracies teach traditional Ju-Jitsu you're yet wrong again. It has changed as well. There are thousand of different Ju-Jitsu forms and there are some that don't even claim to teach the fighting element.

And it's Muay Thai by the way.

Do you know how stupid you sound when you say stuff like this? Im being dead serious here

You can be as serious as you want to be, unless you don't proof me wrong (which you obviously yet again can't) it doesn't change a thing. How many times do I have to tell you to go to a WT dojo and see it for yourself?

If you think the Gracies teach traditional Ju-Jitsu you're yet wrong again. It has changed as well. There are thousand of different Ju-Jitsu forms and there are some that don't even claim to teach the fighting element.

And it's Muay Thai by the way.



true ju-jitsu has evolved....ha ha ha...you are correcting me for mispelling Muay Thai...dude do you know how many words you mispelled? It's like the pot calling the kettle black...ha ha ha :D

hum hum 16 pages , good , keep on arguing...

I am 100% with JOSE, in this debate.

The guys in MMA have PROVEN abilities.
So much of the martial arts like DUDE speaks of....are based on speculation.....& a lot of HELP from the opponent (choreography helps as well.).
They also involve too much thinking. There is no real time to think when brawling on the street.
"Uh, you should do this when he does that."....Take that approach, & you're a dead man.

I am 100% with JOSE, in this debate.

The guys in MMA have PROVEN abilities.
So much of the martial arts like DUDE speaks of....are based on speculation.....& a lot of HELP from the opponent (choreography helps as well.).
They also involve too much thinking. There is no real time to think when brawling on the street.
"Uh, you should do this when he does that."....Take that approach, & you're a dead man.

That's exactly where the great idea of WT lies in and what makes it unique. It is NOT a "Uh, you should do this when he does that." concept. You are teached to adapt to your opponent.

Most important is the concept of not using force against force, which allows a weak fighter to overcome stronger opponents. Generally, a Wing Chun practitioner will seek to use his opponent's own force against him. A great deal of training is put in to this area, and is done with the cultivation of a concept called Contact Reflexes.

Also of importance are the use of several targeting ideas in Wing
Chun. The Mother Line is an imaginary pole running vertically through the center of your body. From the Mother Line emanates the Center Line, which is a vertical 3D grid that divides the body in to a right half and a left half. Most of the vital points of the body are along the Center Line, and it is this area that the Wing Chun student learns to protect as well as work off of in his own offensive techniques. Also emanating from the Mother Line is the Central Line. The Central Line is seen as the shortest path between you and your opponent, which
is generally where most of the exchange is going to take place.
Because of this linear concept, most of the techniques seek to occupy one of the two lines and take on a linear nature.

This leads to the expression of another very important concept in Wing Chun: "Economy of Motion". The analogy of a mobile tank with a turret (that of course shoots straight out of the cannon) is often used to describe the linear concept.

We're not talking about traditional kungfu or karate. Our first rule is to "free ourself from our own strenght". A good WC or Wt practitian will not think anymore when he fights, he will feel what to do immediatly. You guys just show over and over again that you're talking about things you don't even know.

"Also of importance are the use of several targeting ideas in Wing
Chun. The Mother Line is an imaginary pole running vertically through the center of your body. From the Mother Line emanates the Center Line, which is a vertical 3D grid that divides the body in to a right half and a left half. Most of the vital points of the body are along the Center Line, and it is this area that the Wing Chun student learns to protect as well as work off of in his own offensive techniques. Also emanating from the Mother Line is the Central Line. The Central Line is seen as the shortest path between you and your opponent, which
is generally where most of the exchange is going to take place.
Because of this linear concept, most of the techniques seek to occupy one of the two lines and take on a linear nature. "


No offense, but you're living in a fantasy world.
That is just too involved to work on the street, sorry.

"Linear concept".....for street fighting ? LMAO !

I never said it would be easy for boxers, in fact I said they would be successful against 99% and not 100% of people...that means they would do good but most likely not dominate. Also Chuck Lidell hardly ever wrestles when he fights in the UFC...what he does is he escapes the grappler's hold then gets back on his feet...then uses his hands most of the time to defeat his opponents. Look at when Lidell beat Tito Ortiz...That fight NEVER went to the ground. Tito Ortiz attempted to take him to the ground but everytime he tried Lidell stopped him from doing so. That fight was almost a pure boxing match. Also just because a boxer fought for a world title does not mean they are any good...Frans Botha is a sack of ****...and Shannon Briggs isn't very good either. Niether of those guys are top boxers.

Ortiz tried to stand with Liddell. Clearly never worked.

Why didn't Ali smash Inoki then?

That's exactly where the great idea of WT lies in and what makes it unique. It is NOT a "Uh, you should do this when he does that." concept. You are teached to adapt to your opponent.

Most important is the concept of not using force against force, which allows a weak fighter to overcome stronger opponents. Generally, a Wing Chun practitioner will seek to use his opponent's own force against him. A great deal of training is put in to this area, and is done with the cultivation of a concept called Contact Reflexes.

Also of importance are the use of several targeting ideas in Wing
Chun. The Mother Line is an imaginary pole running vertically through the center of your body. From the Mother Line emanates the Center Line, which is a vertical 3D grid that divides the body in to a right half and a left half. Most of the vital points of the body are along the Center Line, and it is this area that the Wing Chun student learns to protect as well as work off of in his own offensive techniques. Also emanating from the Mother Line is the Central Line. The Central Line is seen as the shortest path between you and your opponent, which
is generally where most of the exchange is going to take place.
Because of this linear concept, most of the techniques seek to occupy one of the two lines and take on a linear nature.

This leads to the expression of another very important concept in Wing Chun: "Economy of Motion". The analogy of a mobile tank with a turret (that of course shoots straight out of the cannon) is often used to describe the linear concept.

We're not talking about traditional kungfu or karate. Our first rule is to "free ourself from our own strenght". A good WC or Wt practitian will not think anymore when he fights, he will feel what to do immediatly. You guys just show over and over again that you're talking about things you don't even know.

AHAHAHAHAHA

It cracked me up too jose

That's exactly where the great idea of WT lies in and what makes it unique. It is NOT a "Uh, you should do this when he does that." concept. You are teached to adapt to your opponent.

Most important is the concept of not using force against force, which allows a weak fighter to overcome stronger opponents. Generally, a Wing Chun practitioner will seek to use his opponent's own force against him. A great deal of training is put in to this area, and is done with the cultivation of a concept called Contact Reflexes.

Also of importance are the use of several targeting ideas in Wing
Chun. The Mother Line is an imaginary pole running vertically through the center of your body. From the Mother Line emanates the Center Line, which is a vertical 3D grid that divides the body in to a right half and a left half. Most of the vital points of the body are along the Center Line, and it is this area that the Wing Chun student learns to protect as well as work off of in his own offensive techniques. Also emanating from the Mother Line is the Central Line. The Central Line is seen as the shortest path between you and your opponent, which
is generally where most of the exchange is going to take place.
Because of this linear concept, most of the techniques seek to occupy one of the two lines and take on a linear nature.

This leads to the expression of another very important concept in Wing Chun: "Economy of Motion". The analogy of a mobile tank with a turret (that of course shoots straight out of the cannon) is often used to describe the linear concept.

We're not talking about traditional kungfu or karate. Our first rule is to "free ourself from our own strenght". A good WC or Wt practitian will not think anymore when he fights, he will feel what to do immediatly. You guys just show over and over again that you're talking about things you don't even know.


i use the linear concept in street fight too.

i say " dont cross the line with me *******!!!!"


j/k dude ;)

i use the linear concept in street fight too.

i say " dont cross the line with me *******!!!!"


j/k dude ;)

Whats wrong with you tino? you let every other man cross the line to your *******!! :p

Whats wrong with you tino? you let every other man cross the line to your *******!! :p


listen , you better not **** with me . cause i just learned to fight using the lines , vertical and horizontal , and i m cold like a martini on the rocks , euh i mean a glass of water , and i punch like a tank since i ve learn about WT kung fu.

disrespect me again and i ll broke your FAVORITE TEA CUP MISTER ****NEY .

listen , you better not **** with me . cause i just learned to fight using the lines , vertical and horizontal , and i m cold like a martini on the rocks , euh i mean a glass of water , and i punch like a tank since i ve learn about WT kung fu.

disrespect me again and i ll broke your FAVORITE TEA CUP MISTER ****NEY .

WTF, you dont call a northern guy a ****ney!! :eek: the only insult worst than that is being called french

you disrespect me again and i'll smack you round the head with this French stick
http://www.fabfoliage.com.au/products/Images/FRENCH-STICK.jpg

shut up , boxingscene ' s billy elliot.

youre worst than a david beckham's penalty shot.

shut up , boxingscene ' s billy elliot.

youre worst than a david beckham's penalty shot.

You have worst dress sense than David Beckham.
http://www.transgenderzone.com/features/Davidbeckhamsarong.jpghttp://idrottsforum.org/articles/dahlen/sarong.jpg

shouldnt you be at work or something?

i am at work . we share more or less the same time , so shouldnt you be at work too ?

or you are to busy enjoying your new wallpaper ?

http://gayjourney.com/flags_gay/england.gif

i am at work . we share more or less the same time , so shouldnt you be at work too ?

or you are to busy enjoying your new wallpaper ?

http://gayjourney.com/flags_gay/england.gif

Should be at work but i'm ill, its ****ing lame!! :(

what do you do for a job, other than post on here?

i m a diplomat .

i m a diplomat .

What type of role?

official *******!! :D

i work mainly with south and central america , being half hispanic i m fluent in spanish and i have easyer acess to people .

i not into political stuff , i help french compagnies make businness overseas , making people meet each others , creating joint-ventures , stuff like that.

youre in the bank/insurance business if i remember well ?

i work mainly with south and central america , being half hispanic i m fluent in spanish and i have easyer acess to people .

i not into political stuff , i help french compagnies make businness overseas , making people meet each others , creating joint-ventures , stuff like that.

youre in the bank/insurance business if i remember well ?

WTF!! i never knew that, tino you now have my support
:cool:

WTF, you dont call a northern guy a ****ney!! :eek: the only insult worst than that is being called french

you disrespect me again and i'll smack you round the head with this French stick
http://www.fabfoliage.com.au/products/Images/FRENCH-STICK.jpg

put that next to german bread and watch it surrender :eek: :D

WTF!! i never knew that, tino you now have my support
:cool:

you didnt knew ? maybe cause you joined recently , i use spanish with other latinos like BIGDBL TOP RANK and most of the boricuas here.

you have my support too , BTW.

i work mainly with south and central america , being half hispanic i m fluent in spanish and i have easyer acess to people .

i not into political stuff , i help french compagnies make businness overseas , making people meet each others , creating joint-ventures , stuff like that.

youre in the bank/insurance business if i remember well ?

Helping people meet each other, lol!! sounds like a pimp to me.

I work for a bank, its annoying me at the moment because i want the big job and some idiots are dragging me down! their just some less qualified fools who want me out so they have a chance, it just means i've gotta kick their asses even harder!!

you didnt knew ? maybe cause you joined recently , i use spanish with other latinos like BIGDBL TOP RANK and most of the boricuas here.

you have my support too , BTW.

i am Top Rank, i got a new username :D

damn , stop changing username

you didnt knew ? maybe cause you joined recently , i use spanish with other latinos like BIGDBL TOP RANK and most of the boricuas here.

you have my support too , BTW.

Maybe because you joined recently!?!?

he's got over 5,000 posts :D

damn , stop changing username

maybe some time i'll decide to go back to P4P86 :D

Helping people meet each other, lol!! sounds like a pimp to me.

I work for a bank, its annoying me at the moment because i want the big job and some idiots are dragging me down! their just some less qualified fools who want me out so they have a chance, it just means i've gotta kick their asses even harder!!

if had to choose i would choose being a pimp , frankly.

youre into corporate clientele or private clientele ?

i used to work in finances , i liked it but youre always under pressure , i changed work to have more free time and less headhaches.

Maybe because you joined recently!?!?

he's got over 5,000 posts :D

king of spamming

if had to choose i would choose being a pimp , frankly.

youre into corporate clientele or private clientele ?

i used to work in finances , i liked it but youre always under pressure , i changed work to have more free time and less headhaches.

Private but i'm thinking about corporate, what do you prefer?

Its a head ****, i'm always getting the money in!! the moneys good, its always getting better but its not enough for the stress.

king of spamming

no, the EMPEROR :D

i prefer corporate . private youre selling products to people mainly.(i only did it for a few months so that s just what i ve learned ) , corporate youre creating things , youre financing projects , that is cooler , but the pressure is awful.

did you serve in your country forces ? cause i joined the forces as a volunteer when i was younger and i worked with ROYAL MARINES and those guys had your kind of humour and vision of life .

i prefer corporate . private youre selling products to people mainly.(i only did it for a few months so that s just what i ve learned ) , corporate youre creating things , youre financing projects , that is cooler , but the pressure is awful.

did you serve in your country forces ? cause i joined the forces as a volunteer when i was younger and i worked with ROYAL MARINES and those guys had your kind of humour and vision of life .

No way, i had a lot of mates who served but after a while they became idiots!! when there's too many men and not enough females around they turn into idiots, act the hard man all the time. it definitly not for me.

i grew with some rough guys, not stupid thugs but the type of people who can have a laugh and not take themselves too seriously. thats probably why i dont take myself too seriously!

Anyone who's new to MMA...you must check out BJ Penn...he has the ground skills of Brazilian Ju-Jitsu, in fact he was the first non-Brazilian to win a Ju-Jitsu championship in Brazil..AND he is also a devestating boxer...he has the intensity and viciousness of a young Mike Tyson. Can you imagine that? A guy with the crushing boxing skills of a young Tyson with the grappling skills of a Gracie. BJ Penn one dangerous mother fuker.

yeah i saw a few of his fight , at first i tought the guy was a boxer then it went to the ground where he has mad skills too.

a great fighter for sure , but to compare him with mike tyson , i disagree , he as the boxing skills of a good amateur nothin more , his BJJ is exceptional on the other hand.

he proves boxing is a great stand up fighting sport , ala vitor belfort , so i like him.

yeah i saw a few of his fight , at first i tought the guy was a boxer then it went to the ground where he has mad skills too.

a great fighter for sure , but to compare him with mike tyson , i disagree , he as the boxing skills of a good amateur nothin more , his BJJ is exceptional on the other hand.

he proves boxing is a great stand up fighting sport , ala vitor belfort , so i like him.



yeah I see your point ...there's not too many people like the young Tyson...BUT BJ Penn has the same intensity of a young Tyson the way he charges at the dude and let's his hands go with wicked combos...absolutely brutal.

sure he has a strong and short build like tyson and uses combos of hooks and uppercuts.

but he doenst move his head much and seems easy to hit.

sure he has a strong and short build like tyson and uses combos of hooks and uppercuts.

but he doenst move his head much and seems easy to hit.

So he's more like the Tyson of today right? ;)

sure he has a strong and short build like tyson and uses combos of hooks and uppercuts.

but he doenst move his head much and seems easy to hit.



oh yeah I agree...of course Tyson is a better BOXER because that is what Tyson specializes in. I was just saying that BJ Penn has the same intensity...he holds one of the records for the fastest knockouts in the UFC.

ok i agree , he is indeed a good boxer but i think the better boxer in MMA was by far vitor belfort , he has awesome handspeed , great lateral movement , jabs and put punches together.

Also BJ Penn is very dangerous on the ground...he did some training with Light Heavyweight Champion and legend Randy Couture. Everyone knows how great Randy Couture is on the ground. And Randy Couture says that BJ Penn is so incredible that even he..an olympic class wrestler...could not keep BJ Penn on his back during training. And Randy Couture is a lightheavyweight while Bj Penn is a welterweight. Fighters like BJ Penn are the future of MMA devestating on the ground as well as devestating on his feet.

sure he has tons of energy and seems to have awesome physical strenght for a man his size .


he he really stand against couture he is someone , because he gives away a lot of weight.

Oh yeah you mentioned Vitor Belfort...yes I agree he has the most devestating hands in the UFC. His KO of Vanderlei Silva was VERY VERY violent.

What's your favourite UFC, MMA, Pride or whatever fight anyone and would you mind to upload it? Thx in advance.

This topic still alive? Incredible.

I think Vitor Belfort is so devestating with his hands that he should enter Boxing as a pro in the heavyweight division. I think he would be pretty successful...he has some of the most explosive power I have ever seen.

I think Vitor Belfort is so devestating with his hands that he should enter Boxing as a pro in the heavyweight division. I think he would be pretty successful...he has some of the most explosive power I have ever seen.

His handspeed & power would be nothing special against a real boxer.

For a guy in MMA....it's excellent.

His handspeed & power would be nothing special against a real boxer.

For a guy in MMA....it's excellent.

he is a former brasilian team member , i think.

he is a former brasilian team member , i think.


Yes tino you are right he was on the Brazilian National Boxing Team....he was even considered for the Olympics...I don't think he went though. Jabs-R-Stiff I have to disagree with you...with the current crappy Heavyweight Division...I think Vitor Belfort would do very good if he went into boxing...I'd put my money down on him against Ruiz anyday.

Vitor Belfort was/is a member of Brazilian Top Team. He left and then came back. I think thats what he ment.

Vitor was never considered for the Olympiucs or ever on the National Team for Boxing. That was just all hype.

He used to have great hand speed, but its left him now. He still does have fast hands but not like he used to.

by the way check the download section.

Vitor Belfort was/is a member of Brazilian Top Team. He left and then came back. I think thats what he ment.

Vitor was never considered for the Olympiucs or ever on the National Team for Boxing. That was just all hype.

He used to have great hand speed, but its left him now. He still does have fast hands but not like he used to.

by the way check the download section.


My mistake. I got that information from a UFC tape...I forget which one...the commentator said it. I still think Vitor is pretty devestating though...although you are right,when he was 20 he was much quicker.

he obviously bulked up too much and skipped to a muay thai foot position which helps for knees and low kicks but decreases weight transfert in punches.

Have any of you ever heard of the Japanese fighter Sakuraba they call him "The Gracie Killer"...he's beaten a few of the Gracies...including Royce Gracie...he broke Royce Gracie's leg in a match.

I just had my first BJJ lesson last night, it was a lot of fun. They also teach Kickboxing and MMA there so hopefully in a couple of years I'll be able to handle myself. Anyone else here train in these styles? Ever had to use them?

Have any of you ever heard of the Japanese fighter Sakuraba they call him "The Gracie Killer"...he's beaten a few of the Gracies...including Royce Gracie...he broke Royce Gracie's leg in a match.


I have

Sakuraba vs Newton
Sakuraba vs Jackson
Sakuraba vs Silva 1
Sakuraba vs Ryan Gracie
Sakuraba vs Renzo Gracie

ans I had his Royler Gracie fight, but I dont know if I deleted it by accident or what cause I cant find the damn thing. I dont have his fight with Royce that damn thing lasted an hour and a half.

Saku is the man.

Ken Shamrock doesn't even rate him as a fighter. He must be insane or something. His record reads like the "who's who?" of MMA.

this thread seems blessed with immortality

Saku is the man.

Ken Shamrock doesn't even rate him as a fighter. He must be insane or something. His record reads like the "who's who?" of MMA.



Ken Shamrock is outdated anyway...he was good in his day but there have since been better fighters...and his brother Frank Shamrock is better than him.

what about rickson gracie is it true he has never lost?

what about rickson gracie is it true he has never lost?


Yes its true Rickson has never lost. However he never really fought anyone of any kind of worth. Thats is also not really his fault he was in his prime before MMA was a real sport and what it is today. He had some fights in the 90's but was already past it.

He doesn't fight competative anymore

Yes its true Rickson has never lost. However he never really fought anyone of any kind of worth. Thats is also not really his fault he was in his prime before MMA was a real sport and what it is today. He had some fights in the 90's but was already past it.

He doesn't fight competative anymore
so who's the best mma fighter right now?

so who's the best mma fighter right now?


Fedor.

I uploaded his fight with Heath Herring in the download section. The link is still good so go ahead and download that if your interested.

Fedor.

I uploaded his fight with Heath Herring in the download section. The link is still good so go ahead and download that if your interested.
saw it does heath herring suck real bad or was it that fedor was just so good.

saw it does heath herring suck real bad or was it that fedor was just so good.

Fedor is just that good. He does that to everybody. Thats why he might be the best ever.

Fedor is just that good. He does that to everybody. Thats why he might be the best ever.
whats his record.damn he was just pounding the **** out of herring.i like herring's hair.so what's better ufc or pride?

whats his record.damn he was just pounding the **** out of herring.i like herring's hair.so what's better ufc or pride?


He's 20-1(the 1 fight he loss he lost because of a cut)

Pride has the better fighters because they can afford to pay them more.

Pride favors strikers more and the UFC favors ground guys. Its just depends on what you like.

He's 20-1(the 1 fight he loss he lost because of a cut)

Pride has the better fighters because they can afford to pay them more.

Pride favors strikers more and the UFC favors ground guys. Its just depends on what you like.
thanks for the info man.

any one watch the ufc reality show on ****e last night?your thought's on some of the fighters?

Don't get here in UK. If anyone knows where I can download it, let me know.

Why the hell are those guys ears all ****ed up?

For the record Rickson has lost.

any one watch the ufc reality show on ****e last night?your thought's on some of the fighters?

The show was great. I was actually sirprised how good it as. Its hard to tell how good the fighters are after just one show, but some look like they have real talent.

Why the hell are those guys ears all ****ed up?

Its called Cauliflower ear.

here is some information. You get it when your ear takes abuse that its not suppossed to.

http://www.medicinenet.com/cauliflower_ear/article.htm

For the record Rickson has lost.

No he hasn't

For the record Rickson has lost.
Ithought he didn't.and to who if he did.

I have

Sakuraba vs Newton
Sakuraba vs Jackson
Sakuraba vs Silva 1
Sakuraba vs Ryan Gracie
Sakuraba vs Renzo Gracie

ans I had his Royler Gracie fight, but I dont know if I deleted it by accident or what cause I cant find the damn thing. I dont have his fight with Royce that damn thing lasted an hour and a half.


Definitely would love to see a couple of Sakuraba fights and that Fedor guy you're talking about.

Definitely would love to see a couple of Sakuraba fights and that Fedor guy you're talking about.


I'll upload some for you later on tonight.

I'll upload some for you later on tonight.


Thanks Jose.

RICKSON GRACIE
Date of Birth: Nov.21,1959.
Brazilian Lightheavyweight
7th Degree Black Belt in JuJitsu
Trained by Helio Gracie.
Height: 5ft. 10inch. Weight: 185lbs.

RING RECORD:

SEM DATA :
Draw with Marcos Ruas
Defeated Saulo Ribiero
Defeated Jamelao
Defeated Aljandre Paiva
Defeated Leonardo Castello
Defeated Branca
Defeated Tom Haezle
Defeated Equada
1972:
Defeated R.Kilpatrick,U.S.Army by submission
1973:
Defeated Mateo Macia(1/10)by choke(0:14)
Defeated Ingnacio Paulino(1/13)by choke(0:12)
Defeated Ernesto Hoau(1/16)by choke(0:21)
Defeated Melio Acuna(1/19)by choke(0:16)
Defeated Guillermo"Billy"Sanchez(1/23)
Defeated Franco DeLaVechio(1/30)
Defeated Cheyenne Riveria(2/16)by clock choke(0:09)
Defeated Ed"Slim"Greene(2/21)
Defeated Hans"The Great"Stachel(2/28)
Defeated Raul Martinez(3/09)
Defeated Poli Vasquez(3/16)
Defeated Felix Polo(?)by rear mount(0:23)
Defeated Hector Grazos(?)by choke
Defeated Joa DaSilva(?)by choke
Defeated Wilson Rodrigues(?)
Defeated Eder Pires(?)by choke
Defeated Ado Jua(?)by submission(1:04)
Defeated Manoel Silva(?)by triangle choke(0:07)
Defeated Hector Girouz(?)by clock choke(0:11)
Defeated Luies Rodriguez(?)by submission(0:19)
Defeated Miguel BoggWright(4/2)
Defeated Fracno Rendarogue(4/6)
Defeated Ted Tackman(4/13)
Defeated Rouxton Grisoulyon(6/16)
Defeated Andoulet Voiter(6/23)
Defeated Steven Kentman(4/20)
Defeated Dadari Ryomu(5/14)
Defeated Frank Kentwick(7/14)
Defeated Kurasetsu Nisho(9/12)
Defeated Baltazar Silva
Defeated Costenito Montes
Defeated Benito Valdez
Defeated Alejandro Melendez
Defeated Tomas Chavez
Defeated Jeronimo Flores
Defeated Miguel Clemente
Defeated Romeo Castillo
Defeated Alex Cazares
Defeated Jorge Pacheco
Defeated Farolito Ayala
Defeated Armando Castro
Defeated Guillermo Guillen
Defeated Jose Rosa by TKO
Defeated Memo Lopez by armbar(0:08)
Defeated Pajarito Rivera
Defeated Raul Herrera
Defeated Felipe Pinder by submission(0:10)_
Defeated Arlindo Chang by choke(0:07)
Defeated Famoso Lara by triangle choke(0:16)
1974:
Defeated Felix Chaez(?) by rear choke(0:14)
Defeated Joa Klein(?)
Defeated Luies Steiner(?)
Defeated Hans Leisjua(?) by knockout
Defeated Miguel Garzo(?)
Defeated Eder Montes(?)
Defeated Poli Hernandez(?)
Defeated Chatieroux Chavez(1/3)
Defeated Luies Chavez(1/10) by choke
Defeated Roberto Neres(1/16) by choke
Defeated Jacquim Rodrigues(1/19) by choke
Defeated Nelson Danton(1/23)) by choke(0:09)
Defeated Helio Miesergauez(1/30)
Defeated Valintin Xavier(2/14)
Defeated Romero Baltazr(2/24)
Defeated German Soto(3/11)
Defeated Hernon Uribe(3/19) by submission(0:17)
Defeated Mauro Zenos(3/25) by submission(0:10)
Defeated Bekim Tonna(3/31) by clock choke(0:13)
Defeated Sergio Villegas(4/05)
Defeated Ronaldo Suarza(4/12)
Defeated Lachie Fernandez(4/19)
Defeated Shane Cartbel((4/22)
Defeated Voitier Readieson(5/17)
Defeated Rougatat Jeanette(5/1)
Defeated Fernando Andison(5/25)
Defeated Wayami Hiho(6/7)
Defeated Taisumei Futomo(7/1)
Defeated Fakuyari Roso(9/26) by knockout (0:19)
Defeated Brad Hedgewick(9/6)
Defeated Grisenoire Rendardier(5/9)
Defeated Val Xavier(10/12)
Defeated Fernandeo Sawlo(10/16)
Defeated Tony Dulseti(10/)
Defeated Hernando Lopez(10/19)
Defeated Humberto Gurreo(10/23)
Defeated Anicato Rodriguez(10/25)
Defeated Franciso Navaro(10/30)
Defeated Hip Yi-Lee(11/14)
Defeated Alcio Mierjous(11/18)
Defeated Gilberto Almonte(11/23)
Defeated Young Joffre(11/27)
Defeated Micheal Von-Ryan(12/06) by choke(0:07)
Defeated Mandingo(12/15) by choke(0:08)
Defeated KiKo Jineres(12/22) by choke(0:05)
Defeated Larry Robinson(12/26)by clock choke(0:14)
Defeated Daniel Santi(12/30)by triangle chock(0:09)

1975:
Defeated Mao Calderon(1/17)
Defeated Renato Juao(1/28)
Defeated Ricky Navarro(2/14)
Defeated Franco Mitsumi(2/26)
Defeated Al Simaratana(3/05)
Defeated Bansumei Nakushu(3/23)
Defeated Rudy Boggwood(3/28)
Defeated Joel Hodgeton(4/25)
Defeated Spencer Cartwood(5/18)
Defeated Jean Dobman(6/21)
Defeated Fernando Chaturue(7/7)
Defeated Jon Campham(7/24)
Defeated Bob Fairwood(8/20)
Defeated Julio Bonardier(10/2)
Defeated Jason Jean-Pierre(10/9)
Defeated Gomeo Boyd(10/16)
Defeated Hans Kruger(10/23)
Defeated Angel Rodrigeuz(10/30)
Defeated Fighting Fernandez(11/14)
Defeated Ado Ramos(11/21)
Defeated Pu Yi Tong(11/28) by submission(0:18)
Defeated Milnos Branski(12/06)
Defeated Shane Scott(12/13)
Defeated Julious Hernaou(12/20)
Defeated Ramiro Hojas(12/27)
Defeated Jean-Pierre Thoonen(12/31)
1976:
Defeated Kyle Sinclair(1/03)by tap out(0:15)
Defeated Gomeo Boyd(1/17)by TKO(0:17)
Defeated Mandingo(1/24)
Defeated Denton Duphas(1/30)
Defeated Manuel Rosado(2/21)
Defeated Romeo Acuna(2/27) by submission(0:17)
Defeated Miles O'Neal(3/10)
Defeated Henry Akerwick(3/22)
Defeated Sukari Kenfucu(6/1)
Defeated Ichiyaka Nakunaga(6/8)
Defeated Gyyaku Hiiki(6/10) by choke(0:23)
Defeated Bonquet Verdanoire(6/20)
Defeated Jean Dobman(6/21)
Defeated Boneture D'Marignon(6/23)by triangle choke(0:15)
Defeated Lewis Crawston(7/14)
Defeated Kaikari Okafuto(7/16)
Defeated Dagumi Tsuari(8/7)
Defeated Dagmar Valintin(9/6)
Defeated Carey West(9/16) by TKO(0:19)
Defeated Dave"Great"Scott(9/26) by TKO(0:14)
Defeated Marc Gomes(10/02) by choke(0:09)
Defeated Luis Cruz(10/06) by submission(0:11)
Defeated Ernesto Gallio(10/15)by submission(0:09)
Defeated Sergio Peralta(10/22)by tap out(0:06)
Defeated Casanova Marcalino(10/29) by armbar(0:18)
Defeated Walter Paez(11/16) by tap out(0:17)
Defeated Fabio Quintanna(11/26)
Defeated Raul Espinosa(11/30)
Defeated Henri DasSilva(12/08)
Defeated Wilfredo Silverstein(12/16)
Defeated Milo Morra(12/22) by triangle chck(0:47)
Defeated David Bloomberg(12/27) by TKO(0:12)
Defeated Manolo Zerous(12/29)
1977:
Defeated Hector Acevedo(1/14)
Defeated Felix Zarza(2/25)
Defeated Toshi Suzuki(3/31)
Defeated Hepiliato Cillanos(4/03)
Defeated Jack Vincense(4/20)
Defeated Chatarogue Randez(5/1)
Defeated Verd Verditure(5/10)
Defeated Greg Denston(4/23)
Defeated Dustin Edgerman(5/13)
DefeatedCastine Fansine(7/5)
Defeated Rend Voiturdier(7/9)
Defeated Rougiedier Vinier(7/15)
DefeatedAkikari Ichito(8/27)
Defeated Gensetsu Arisop(9/10)
Defeated David Cromworth(10/01)
Defeated Bud Patterson(10/28)
Defeated Eric Rudon(9/15)
Defeated Ricardo Salinas(11/02)
Defeated Bernardo Juas(11/05)
Defeated Ken Osawara(11/07)
Defeated Rio Kid(11/07) by tap out(0:26)
Defeated Felix Cabrera(11/12)
Defeated Robinson Crerew(11/16) by choke(0:58)
Defeated Phil Bishop(11/23) by TKO(0:33)
Defeated Rahman Benji(11/27) by tap out(0:17)
Defeated Alister Benjamin(11/30)by TKO(0:13)
Defeated Lachie Ternaes(12/03)by choke(0:42)
Defeated Henry Roundtree(12/06)by choke(0:15)
Defeated Jack Soo-Yip(12/08) by tap out(0:13)
Defeated Bennie Bloom(12/12)by tap out(1:37)
Defeated Bennie Bloom(12/17)by choke(0:33)
Defeated Diter Steiner(12/21)by tap out(0:21)
Defeated "Diego"(12/26) by tap out(0:08)
Defeated Roberto Gomes(12/28)
Defeated F.Reyes(12/29)
Defeated Mario Sosa(12/31)
1978
Defeated Soyami Ashihi(1/17)
Defeated Azutai Bano(3/24)
Defeated Erin Campwell(6/28)
Defeated Henry Huntman(7/6)
Defeated Kansuki Naoaki(724)
Defeated Lou Shefwick(7/24)
Defeated Kotowara Ryoso(7/26)
Defeated Yatai Heike(9/22)
Defeated Alvacir Klein
Defeated Euclidis Pendas
Defeated Viror DeOliveira
Defeated Roberto Morales
Defeated Enzo Paulino
Defeated Adalberto Gauisans
Defeated Avelino Morones
Defeated Edson Porcel
Defeated Carlos Mazon
Defeated Felix Rollo by triangle choke(0:13)
Defeated Ernesto Dos Silva
Defeated Pasqual Caceres
Defeated Leo Figueroa by clock choke(0:09)
Defeated Nevio DeLos Santos
Defeated Angel Doria
Defeated Fernando Acebal
Defeated Piero Arocha
Defeated "Guillermo" by KO(0:15)
Defeated Rudolfo Lara
Defeated Felix Jamao
Defeated Hitoshi Oki
Defeated Tetsuo Sakai
Defeated Masami Esashi
Defeated Akira Horiguchi
Defeated Koichi Fuji
Defeated Toshiaki Yoshida
Defeated Katsu Takechi
Defeated Hideo Matsuaga
Defeated Takao Nakatsu
Defeated Masashi Saijyo
1979
Defeated David Ramirez-Diaz(2/12)
Defeated Wilson Tao(2/13)by submission(0:56)
Defeated Andarogue Bonouous(3/2)
Defeated Spencer Boggton(3/14)
Defeated Boni Verditina(4/5)
Defeated Bayari Kotokuri(4/8)
Defeated Yogumi Okoya(5/3)
Defeated Chati Verdavor(7/16)
Defeated Shugami Omosho(7/19)
Defeated Kenmari Ryooko(7/23)
Defeated Jon Denworth(8/10)
Defeated Nakuwaru Waashi(9/15)
Defeated Yasaru Kyosu(10/11)
Defeated Victor Barrera(10/12)
Defeated Cesar Perez(10/14)
Defeated Sugar Garcia(10/17)
Defeated Memo Espinosa(10/19)
Defeated Mario Solis(10/22)
Defeated Chuy Bolanos(10/24)
Defeated Carlos Ursua(10/26)
Defeated Alfredo Borges(10/28)
Defeated Baba Villa(10/30)
Defeated Franco Gomez(11/07)
Defeated Julio Rios(11/09)
Defeated Salvador Lopez(11/16)
Defeated Enrique Manrique(11/18)
Defeated Arnoldo Rocha(11/21)
Defeated Rafael Mendoza(11/24)
Defeated Marcos Meneses(11/27)
Defeated Miguel Jimenez(11/30)
Defeated Rodolfo Romero(12/3)
Defeated Roman Enriquez(12/5)
Defeated Isidro Perez(12/7)
Defeated Mario Vega(12/09)
Defeated Adan Romero(12/12)
Defeated Tomas Zamora(12/14)
Defeated Armando Ibanez(12/17)
Defeated Raul Lara(12/17)by choke(0:10)
Defeated Mateo Ordonez(12/17)
Defeated Anacieto Tirado(12/17)
Defeated Eduardo Villegas(12/17)
Defeated Manuel Rosa(12/23)
Defeated Choma Amancio(12/23)
Defeated Ramiro Batoto(12/23)
Defeated Carboncio Orejel(12/23)
Defeated Zorriti Lujan(12/23)
Defeated Luciano Medina(12/29)
Defeated Hilario Rosario(12/29)
Defeated Camy Alvarez(12/29)
Defeated Hector Estrada(12/23)

1980
Defeated Roberto Zarza by submission(0:11)
Defeated Xavier Caiso by arm bar(0:16)
Defeated Favio Oliver by clock choke(0:09)
Defeated Misha Rusaski by knee lock(3:54)
Defeated Paulo Lima by choke from the mount(0:33)
Defeated Xavier Caiso by triangle choke(5:09)
Defeated Otta Stelling by armbar(0:18)
Defeated Emmerson Fernandes by tap out(1:29)
Defeated Rio Kid(1/09) by TKO(0:19)
Defeated Zulu(1/23)
Defeated Roug Verdulet(3/23)
Defeated Somoto Hiryo(5/3)
Defeated Gogumi Nihi(6/1)
Defeated James Langwick(6/25)
Defeated Spencer Longley(6/26)
Defeated Tagami Ainao(7/18)
Defeated Gotaka Yonaga(8/22)
Defeated Peter Longwick(9/2)
Defeated Hitsu Kantsu(9/7)
Defeated Fred Langtion(9/7)
Defeated Peter Longwick(9/12)
Defeated Sean Tuckson(9/19)
Defeated Heraclio Mejia(9/20)
Defeated Antonio Encisco(9/22)
Defeated Alfonso Campos(10/02)
Defeated Sixto Garcia(10/02) by tap out(0:31)
Defeated Cruz Gonzalez(10/02)
Defeated Tortillo Navarro(10/02)
Defeated Salvador Perez(10/02)
Defeated Pedro James(10/18)
Defeated Cesar Sanchez(10/23)
Defeated Raul Espinosa(10/26)
Defeated Ad Vargas(10/30)
Defeated Francisco Garrido(11/06)
Defeated Tanny Diaz(11/15)
Defeated Eusebio Cruz(11/19)
Defeated Gilberto Beto(11/26)
DefeatedCandido Ferreyra(12/13)
Defeated Hector Moreno(12/17)
Defeated Giglio Rabaldino(12/28)
Defeated Joe Morriera
1981
Defeated Ichimoto Taikyo(1/3)
Defeated Ken Crawwright(3/2)
Defeated Julio Hodgeston(3/5)
Defeated Voiton Rougiertine(3/6)
Defeated Bud Cunningham(3/13)
Defeated David Akerham(3/18)
Defeated Lewis Akerston(3/25)
Defeated Azubishi Fukuki(4/1)
Defeated Avel Rendutine(4/12)
Defeated Enrique Garcia(5/5)
Defeated Grisielyon Anton(5/23)
Defeated Nitai Nagahi(6/2)
Defeated Tsusuki Takushi(6/8)
Defeated Kuruitsu Sonaga(6/10)
Defeated Rougero Magarogue(6/19)by tap out(8:27)
Defeated Equada
1982
Defeated Sergio Penha
Defeated Pedao Gaston(4/19)
Defeated Randy Fairworth(4/21)
Defeated Erin Cobwick(6/1)
Defeated Shosumei Kaiki(6/6)
Defeated Juan Kentston(6/9)by tap out(2:34)
Defeated Defeated Marco Rendouture(6/15)
Defeated Renda Verderogue(6/20)
Defeated Gris Jean-Rendious(6/22)
Defeated Bart Hartworth(7/7)
Defeated Herbert Latham(8/6)
Defeated Kantai Roaki(8/22)
Defeated Kuru Kurata(10/20)
Defeated Kanwara Itsumaka(10/27)
1983
Defeated Vinous Verdieson(1/28)
Defeated Costine Bonutine(4/25)
Defeated Verdouson Verdieuous(4/11)
Defeated Dennis Hodgewell(5/17)
Defeated Jon Kentwright(5/21)
Defeated Jim Edgerwright(8/3)
Defeated Fred Shefbel(9/10)
Defeated George Cromley(9/12)
1984
Defeated Susetsu Ikiso(1/15)
Defeated Zenio Prendes by armbar(3/2)
Defeated Gus Campwood(3/7)
Defeated Gymoto Kaai(4/23)
Defeated Rendie Rodriguez(5/9)
Defeated Mimari Ikugen((5/11)
Defeated Koto Heikyo(6/3)
Defeated Bayari Kaken(6/6)
Defeated Verdaroux Vinquet(7/3)
Defeated Mosetsu Banshu(8/10)
Defeated Dustin Crawwood(10/23)
1985
Defeated Batai Dafuto(1/2)
Defeated Pendao Andievous(4/11)
Defeated Azugumi Shiya(5/12)
Defeated Dan Campley(6/22)
Defeated Jim Anderson(6/28)
Defeated Dennis Akerley(6/7)
Defeated Gotai Kinaku(6/14)
Defeated Enrique Verdutine(7/14)
Defeated Tom Baughwick(7/25)
Defeated Rudy Hollings(8/19)
Defeated Wasumei Omoka(9/21)
1986
Defeated Joe Morriera
Defeated Bud Cobman(4/9)
Defeated Akikari Taazu(5/4)
Defeated Dotaku Genka(5/17)
Defeated Chato Verdalyon(6/12)
Defeated Marcelo Costine(6/13)
Defeated Sanchez Rodriguez(7/12)
Defeated Jerome Jackson(7/25)
Defeated Baitsu Nagakuru(9/7)
Defeated Ralph Hollings(9/8)
Defeated Tom Campley(10/2)
Defeated Mage Verdelet(10/15)
1987
Defeated Verd Rendienne(1/4)
Defeated Yakusu Akita(1/14)
Defeated Wasuki Kanmo(1/19)
Defeated Ralph Edgerbel(3/1)
Defeated Defeated Bono Rendietat(6/5)
Defeated Grisu Chataoutat(6/14)
Defeated Iku Shohei(8/28)
Defeated Frank Cobston(10/10)
Defeated Willie Cunnington(10/11)
Defeated Farutaku Kiju(10/11)
1988
Defeated Okodari Heiju
Defeated Genyaku Ashiho(3/21)
Defeated Brad Campwood(4/25)
Defeated Bono Chaterue(6/2)
Defeated Grist Magoutine(6/9)
Defeated Enrique Rouguson(6/13)
Defeated Gristo Marad(6/28)
Defeated Hugo Duarte(7/5)
Defeated Eric Henderley(7/18)
Defeated Itsumoru Gyhi(8/27)
Defeated Gabe Wenwright(10/18)
Defeated Louis Poisette(10/19)
1989
Defeated Zulu(1/19)
Defeated Roug Rodriguez(4/14)
Defeated Royari Nagaso(5/18)
Defeated Kuruyari Akihei(8/4)
Defeated Rudy Cunningwell(10/3)
Defeated Bob Hartston(10/8)
Defeated Vino Andoulet(10/22)
1990
Defeated Rigan Machado
Defeated Rigan Machado
Defeated Fabio Gurgel
Defeated Robert Anderley(3/11)
Defeated Anda Verdetine(5/6)
Defeated Okayami Maari(5/20)by submission
Defeated Shotokau Nakukyo(6/12)
Defeated Juan Hodgeman(6/13)
Defeated Tayami Gokyo(8/16)
Defeated Julio Jackson(8/18)
Defeated Andi Duque(10/11)
1991
Defeated Joel Farmer(3/14)by choke
Defeated Steve Parkinson(6/16)by choke
Defeated Bankari Azuki(6/23)by choke
Defeated Tosaru Azuho(7/4)
Defeated Gus Kently(10/1)
Defeated Andu Bonier(10/16)
Defeated Rigan Machado(/?)
Defeated Rigan Machado(?)
1992
Defeated Mark Huntbel(3/2)
Defeated Naga Rokoto(3/23)
Defeated Aritai Ryoyo(4/16)by tap out
Defeated Roy Cartwell(4/23)by submission
Defeated Dueton Voitious(5/4)by choke(0:17)
Defeated Chata Mortelle(5/14)
Defeated Gabe Langbel(5/16)
Defeated Bart Cunningley(7/7)by tap out(0:32)
Defeated Gris Rendounoire(7/11)
Defeated Kenmoto Hoichi(7/12)
Defeated Nakusetsu Juso(7/27)by clock choke(1:05)
Defeated Taimoto Yashi(8/17)
Defeated Anda Chatinoire(9/7)
Defeated Louis Crawbel(9/22)by armbar(0:47)
Defeated Joel Norwick(9/25)
Defeated Basitsu Maken(10/17)
Defeated Kyobishi Shiyo(10/17)
Defeated Avage Griselynon(10/22)
1993
Defeated Nick Baturin by tap out(0:46)
LOST to RON TRIPP by throwdown
(U.S.SAMBO NATIONALS)
1994
Defeated Mark Schultz
Defeated Yoshinon Nishi(9/9)by choke
Defeated David Leviki(9/9)by tap out
Defeated Bud Smith(9/9)by choke
1995
Defeated Koichiro Kimura(4/20)by choke
Defeated Yoshihisa Yamamoto(4/20)by choke
Defeated Yukai Nakai(4/20)by choke
Defeated Yuki Nakai(9/18)
Defeated Yoji Anjo(12/21)
1996-inactive
1997
Defeated Nobuhiko Tukada(10/11)
1998
Defeated Nobuhiko Tukada(10/11)
1999
Defeated Royler Gracie(4/29)exch. in Japan.
2000
Defeated Masakatsu Funaki(5/26)


TOTAL MATCHES = 486

WON = 484

LOST = 1

DRAW = 1

Sambo not MMA, but I see your point.

Rickson really didn't have many Vale Tudo fights.

TTT because this thread amuses me.

BJJ all the way *****es.

Hahahahaahhaahahahah, Lmao At The Wing Tung Guy Hahahahahahahaha.....

By the way, only a handfull of those fights on Ricksons record are MMA/NHB fights, most are BJJ and Sambo tournaments and ****....

Ithought he didn't.and to who if he did.A sambo match. He claimed the rules weren't clear to him.

Fedor.

I uploaded his fight with Heath Herring in the download section. The link is still good so go ahead and download that if your interested.

Where is this download section at? I want to watch :D

Where is this download section at? I want to watch :D


you need 100 post to see it.

you need 100 post to see it.

Let the post whoreing begin! :D

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ground fighting is so damn boring and gay friendlyYeah and no...I do think that the NUMBERS of good and AGGRESSIVE grapplers are LOW. Guys like Nog, Sakuraba, Mir, Lister, MOST LW's and Shogun are the exception