View Full Version : Who hit harder, Tyson or Marciano?


XionComrade
11-30-2005, 05:51 PM
For Tyson his KOs weren't really about the power, it was the sheer speed and skill behind them IMO.

Marciano was a brawler with little orthodox boxing skills, his KOs were about catching his opponents off guard IMO, very strange fighter, so who hit harder?


I think Marciano hit harder, and don't say anything about the weight, it was not a issue here...

Da Iceman
11-30-2005, 06:03 PM
marciano put guys in comas broke jaws and elbows, what has tyson every done

leff
11-30-2005, 07:12 PM
best 1 punch power goes to marciano, but it doesnt mean his a more dangerous fighter.

tyson had not only power but lightning fast combos while marciaon threw one shot at the time.

Dempsey 1919
11-30-2005, 07:33 PM
tyson, because marciano hurt cruiserweights and light hw, and tyson hurt true hw's.

Skydog
11-30-2005, 07:52 PM
I doubt Tyson could have landed such a powerful punch on someone like Marciano did to Walcott. Don't forget to mention he was getting the living **** beaten out of him.

Brockton Lip
11-30-2005, 08:05 PM
Marciano. He was a wrecking machine.

rge
11-30-2005, 10:29 PM
Tyson hits harder, and of course weight is important.

Marciano damaged more his opponents for two reasons: a) he threw more punches than the average heavyweight, b)gloves were lighter back then, so more injuries happened.

Tyson can do a punch like the one on Walcott and more. In fact, he made something similar to Botha to finish him.
Lewis made a punch even more powerful on Rahman II.

Da Iceman
11-30-2005, 10:50 PM
tyson, because marciano hurt cruiserweights and light hw, and tyson hurt true hw's.
you just dont seem to understand, that medical breakthroughs, eating habits, and training techniques make people weigh more now than 50 years ago, most people were between 185-200 in the 50's it was uncommon to see somebody more than 210. so what if he ko'd cruiserweights, thats just the size people were at back then. damn!

M26
12-01-2005, 06:19 AM
best 1 punch power goes to marciano, but it doesnt mean his a more dangerous fighter.

tyson had not only power but lightning fast combos while marciaon threw one shot at the time.

Good point.

Imira
12-01-2005, 10:16 AM
best 1 punch power goes to marciano, but it doesnt mean his a more dangerous fighter.

tyson had not only power but lightning fast combos while marciaon threw one shot at the time.

No he didn't. Rocky would get inside and let loose a hellacious bombardment of hooks and uppercuts. Archie Moore said it was like fighting an airplane propeller.

TheEvilSaint
12-01-2005, 01:10 PM
tyson KOd guys with his power, speed, and accuracy. marciano just needed his power.

tyson could knock you out. rocky could end your career.

Da Iceman
12-01-2005, 06:08 PM
tyson KOd guys with his power, speed, and accuracy. marciano just needed his power.

tyson could knock you out. rocky could end your career.
very well put evilsaint

Baddest man on da planet
12-01-2005, 06:10 PM
tyson KOd guys with his power, speed, and accuracy. marciano just needed his power.

tyson could knock you out. rocky could end your career.
i agree tyson did not punch as hard as rocky

Dempsey 1919
12-01-2005, 06:13 PM
you just dont seem to understand, that medical breakthroughs, eating habits, and training techniques make people weigh more now than 50 years ago, most people were between 185-200 in the 50's it was uncommon to see somebody more than 210. so what if he ko'd cruiserweights, thats just the size people were at back then. damn!

but the question was who hit harder, not who hit harder given the medical breakthroughs, eating habits, and training techniques. and tyson definetely hit harder, ya'll build marciano up too much. i mean how hard can a 180 lb. person hit? he can't hit as hard as a 220lb. fighter with good power for a 220lb. fighter like foreman, tyson, lewis, or shavers.

ThaKing
12-01-2005, 06:39 PM
Tyson can hit harder but Rocky is still a good fight , tyson got everything to be a great boxer, i really hoped he doesn't come back

Dempsey 1919
12-01-2005, 06:41 PM
Tyson can hit harder but Rocky is still a good fight , tyson got everything to be a great boxer, i really hoped he doesn't come back

i suppose if you call a one round ko a good fight, then it is a good fight.

Da Iceman
12-01-2005, 08:31 PM
but the question was who hit harder, not who hit harder given the medical breakthroughs, eating habits, and training techniques. and tyson definetely hit harder, ya'll build marciano up too much. i mean how hard can a 180 lb. person hit? he can't hit as hard as a 220lb. fighter with good power for a 220lb. fighter like foreman, tyson, lewis, or shavers.
its called weight shifting *****, he used it tyson didnt

Dempsey 1919
12-01-2005, 08:35 PM
its called weight shifting *****, he used it tyson didnt

still, you can't really say he hit harder, cause he didn't fight the same type of fighters tyson fought.

Brockton Lip
12-01-2005, 10:01 PM
Marciano hit harder.

XionComrade
12-01-2005, 10:21 PM
but the question was who hit harder, not who hit harder given the medical breakthroughs, eating habits, and training techniques. and tyson definetely hit harder, ya'll build marciano up too much. i mean how hard can a 180 lb. person hit? he can't hit as hard as a 220lb. fighter with good power for a 220lb. fighter like foreman, tyson, lewis, or shavers.

Its called Genetics, whith those strange God given gifts a lightweight could hit harder than a heavyweight...

kapersky
12-01-2005, 11:21 PM
why everything had to with tyson, he is underrated/overrated some belive he could beat ali, some belive he couldnt bet joe. some belivie frazier got better skillz and chin than tyson, some belivie tyson was same tyson when he left rooney etc...

kapersky
12-01-2005, 11:22 PM
why everything had to with tyson, he is underrated/overrated some belive he could beat ali, some belive he couldnt bet joe. some belivie frazier got better skillz and chin than tyson, some belivie tyson was same tyson when he left rooney etc...

funny many things tyson hitalmost as hard as shavers, but if some ask who hit harder between shavers and marciano many would say shavers but if compare between tyson and marciano many say marciano...

TheEvilSaint
12-03-2005, 01:30 AM
still, you can't really say he hit harder, cause he didn't fight the same type of fighters tyson fought.
tyson's biggest win was a 91 second KO of blown up LHW michael spinks or an over the hill larry holmes. those were the only two good quality fighters who tyson EVER beat.

marciano fought LEGENDS like joe louis, jersey joe walcott, archie moore, and ezzard charles.

ur right, he didnt fight the same type of fighters tyson did, rocky's competition was vastly superior.

Oasis_Lad
12-03-2005, 01:33 AM
Marcaino Easy Its So Obvious

kapersky
12-03-2005, 05:28 AM
tyson's biggest win was a 91 second KO of blown up LHW michael spinks or an over the hill larry holmes. those were the only two good quality fighters who tyson EVER beat.

marciano fought LEGENDS like joe louis, jersey joe walcott, archie moore, and ezzard charles.

ur right, he didnt fight the same type of fighters tyson did, rocky's competition was vastly superior.

joe louis was more washed up than larry was when he fough tyson

blockhead
12-03-2005, 10:19 AM
in general tyson hit harder but the punch that rocky ko'd walcott with was the hardest punch i have ever seen. it looked like he killed him with that right its just sick. better than all of the great tyson knockouts.

blockhead
12-03-2005, 10:23 AM
but the question was who hit harder, not who hit harder given the medical breakthroughs, eating habits, and training techniques. and tyson definetely hit harder, ya'll build marciano up too much. i mean how hard can a 180 lb. person hit? he can't hit as hard as a 220lb. fighter with good power for a 220lb. fighter like foreman, tyson, lewis, or shavers.
YOU ARE A ****ING MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! weight is not the defining factor in punching power and it does not i repeat not determine who is a better boxer. every time you post you look like a complete idiot with your retoric about weight. another stupid post from butterfly.

leff
12-03-2005, 10:30 AM
but the question was who hit harder, not who hit harder given the medical breakthroughs, eating habits, and training techniques. and tyson definetely hit harder, ya'll build marciano up too much. i mean how hard can a 180 lb. person hit? he can't hit as hard as a 220lb. fighter with good power for a 220lb. fighter like foreman, tyson, lewis, or shavers.

let me just aske you a simple question,

do you box yourselve?

blockhead
12-03-2005, 10:37 AM
let me just aske you a simple question,

do you box yourselve?
there is no way this kid boxes. no way.

JMCbulls
12-03-2005, 12:14 PM
rocky marciano

Dempsey 1919
12-03-2005, 03:14 PM
tyson's biggest win was a 91 second KO of blown up LHW michael spinks or an over the hill larry holmes. those were the only two good quality fighters who tyson EVER beat.

marciano fought LEGENDS like joe louis, jersey joe walcott, archie moore, and ezzard charles.

ur right, he didnt fight the same type of fighters tyson did, rocky's competition was vastly superior.

archie moore a legend? he was a beast at lhw, but at 184lb. he was crap. charles was a natural mw or lhw, so he was all wrong at 180 some odd pounds. walcott was a natural lhw. the fact that you bring up that spinks was blown-up is stupid cause moore, charles, and watcott were blown up as well, and it took 13 rounds for marciano to beat walcott the first time, he couldn't even ko charles the first time and the 2nd time it took 8 rounds to do it. and it took him 9 rounds to finish moore, and he couldn't even keep archie on the canvas in the first knoockdown, and it took four tries to ko moore, and moore has a glass chin. tyson ko'd spinks in 91 seconds and was given no trouble at all. and also the fact that you bring up that holmes was over the hill when tyson fought him is also stupid cause so was louis when he fought marciano and it took marciano 8 rounds to finish a washed-up louis. holmes was destroyed in three rounds by tyson. how is marciano's competiton far superior when even when they were blown up they weren't heavyweights. tyson fought hw's. do you actually think tyson would lose to any of the people marciano fought. i guarantee you he would ko every single one in 4 rounds or less. so your argument is here on end rendered null and void. :cool:

Dempsey 1919
12-03-2005, 03:22 PM
YOU ARE A ****ING MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! weight is not the defining factor in punching power and it does not i repeat not determine who is a better boxer. every time you post you look like a complete idiot with your retoric about weight. another stupid post from butterfly.

you are the moron, and the blockhead lol! you say weight is not a defining factor. so that means a natural 120lb. man can ko a natural 250lb. man? well, you said it's a non-factor, so weight doesn't matter. why do you think they have weight classes if it's a non-factor as you say. it's a non-factor if you are a natural, say 190lb. and you weigh 220lb. and the guy you are fighting is a natural 210lb. and actually weighs 210lb.! but a natural 180lb. fighter like marciano fighting a natural 220lb. fighter in tyson who has 220lb. power will stand no chance power wise. if marciano can hit that hard then his natural weight would be more than 180, wouldn't it? whatever one's natural weight is then that is a good indication of how powerful he is! :)

RoundByRound
12-03-2005, 06:10 PM
I think the difference in punching power is obvious when you look at the styles. Marciano being the smaller fighter that he was would reach all the way back, much farther than most heavyweights, since most heavyweights that try to fight like that get beat badly (Marciano was an exception because he was incredibly tough and resiliant). I mean he really reaches back to get those haymakers. Now take tyson. In his prime he easily K.O.'d his opponents with precise punching. Uppercuts and tight hooks were his speciality. His punching speed was increased because he attained K.O. power while using tight punches, which also aided his defense. Now if you take Tyson throwing a Marciano haymaker, and landing it with Marciano's skill, the difference in punching power would be obvious. So I think Tyson hit much harder than Marciano.

leff
12-03-2005, 06:38 PM
butterfly

im gonna repeat my question

do you box yourself?

also what exactly do you mean by natural weight?

TheEvilSaint
12-04-2005, 01:16 PM
archie moore a legend? he was a beast at lhw, but at 184lb. he was crap. charles was a natural mw or lhw, so he was all wrong at 180 some odd pounds. walcott was a natural lhw. the fact that you bring up that spinks was blown-up is stupid cause moore, charles, and watcott were blown up as well, and it took 13 rounds for marciano to beat walcott the first time, he couldn't even ko charles the first time and the 2nd time it took 8 rounds to do it. and it took him 9 rounds to finish moore, and he couldn't even keep archie on the canvas in the first knoockdown, and it took four tries to ko moore, and moore has a glass chin. tyson ko'd spinks in 91 seconds and was given no trouble at all. and also the fact that you bring up that holmes was over the hill when tyson fought him is also stupid cause so was louis when he fought marciano and it took marciano 8 rounds to finish a washed-up louis. holmes was destroyed in three rounds by tyson. how is marciano's competiton far superior when even when they were blown up they weren't heavyweights. tyson fought hw's. do you actually think tyson would lose to any of the people marciano fought. i guarantee you he would ko every single one in 4 rounds or less. so your argument is here on end rendered null and void. :cool:
i love it when morons like you make a REALLY ****TY arguement then say that "i just owned you" closing statement when all they did was rant and rave and hold on to tyson's nuts for dear life and make ridiculous biased statements with no truth at all. thank you for making me feel so superior.

moore was crap? that statement alone should put u in line to be banned for sheer ignorance. moore has more KOs than anyone in history, the 2nd longest LHW title reign in history, fought true legends all throughout his career and was in the game for longer than 1/4 century. can tyson say that?... no.

the only reason you say they were blown up cuz they never weighed more than 200 lbs. heres some inside info, 90% of all HW champions would be considered CWs cuz of today's stupid weight standards.

"took marciano 13 rounds to KO walcott the 1st time"? "couldnt even KO charles the 1st time and took him 8 rounds to do it the 2nd time"? "took him 9 rounds to KO moore and couldnt even keep him down after the 1st KD"? "moore had a glass chin"? im not even going to bother insulting you about these statements. theyre just too horrendous to merit a flame contest.

spinks was a *****. he was scared out of his mind to put up a fight with tyson. moore wasnt scared. and he was KDd 5 times against rocky cuz he had something spinks didnt: HEART. spinks stayed down cuz he was a scared *****. saying that "rocky couldnt even keep moore down" is one of the worst arguements i have ever heard and trust me, ive heard a LOT of dumbass arguements.

who did tyson fight? a blown up LHW spinks, a 39 year old holmes, evander holyfield who smacked tyson around like a *****, and lennox lewis who battered tyson into dust.

who did rocky fight? an old joe louis, jersey joe walcott, ezzard charles, and archie moore.

you know what the funny thing is? tyson is 2-4 against quality opposition. rocky is 6-0 against his quality opposition.

rocky hit harder, and you cant prove that he didnt.

Sir Fancylot
12-04-2005, 01:49 PM
the more I look at this section, the more idiots I see.

Tyson's punching power had less to do with his KOs than his in-your-face relentless approach. Marciano hit like a mother****er.

Dempsey 1919
12-05-2005, 02:09 AM
i love it when morons like you make a REALLY ****TY arguement then say that "i just owned you" closing statement when all they did was rant and rave and hold on to tyson's nuts for dear life and make ridiculous biased statements with no truth at all. thank you for making me feel so superior.

moore was crap? that statement alone should put u in line to be banned for sheer ignorance. moore has more KOs than anyone in history, the 2nd longest LHW title reign in history, fought true legends all throughout his career and was in the game for longer than 1/4 century. can tyson say that?... no.

the only reason you say they were blown up cuz they never weighed more than 200 lbs. heres some inside info, 90% of all HW champions would be considered CWs cuz of today's stupid weight standards. "took marciano 13 rounds to KO walcott the 1st time"? "couldnt even KO charles the 1st time and took him 8 rounds to do it the 2nd time"? "took him 9 rounds to KO moore and couldnt even keep him down after the 1st KD"? "moore had a glass chin"? im not even going to bother insulting you about these statements. theyre just too horrendous to merit a flame contest.

spinks was a *****. he was scared out of his mind to put up a fight with tyson. moore wasnt scared. and he was KDd 5 times against rocky cuz he had something spinks didnt: HEART. spinks stayed down cuz he was a scared *****. saying that "rocky couldnt even keep moore down" is one of the worst arguements i have ever heard and trust me, ive heard a LOT of dumbass arguements.

who did tyson fight? a blown up LHW spinks, a 39 year old holmes, evander holyfield who smacked tyson around like a *****, and lennox lewis who battered tyson into dust.

who did rocky fight? an old joe louis, jersey joe walcott, ezzard charles, and archie moore.

you know what the funny thing is? tyson is 2-4 against quality opposition. rocky is 6-0 against his quality opposition.

rocky hit harder, and you cant prove that he didnt.

woooow! you are full of ****! i never said moore wasn't a great light hw, i even said he was a beast at lhw! but was he a great hw? no! because he lost to marciano and a year later was obliterated by patterson for the vacant title. he didn't do crap in the hw division. and he does have a glass chin because if he didn't then he wouldn't be ko'd in the first round by a middle weight if he was a great hw as you say. with a chin like that it seems that 185lb marciano should do worst to moore right? but no, marciano had to keep knocking him down and finally he stayed down in the ninth, which says alot about marciano's punching power if a middleweight nobody has heard of ko'd moore in the first and marciano a supposed hw was given hell by moore. we're talking about hw not lhw. do you know why he wasn't a good hw? because he wasn't a natural hw, which means that he is more at home fighting in a lesser weight class. he fought at middleweight for several years and was a top contender. he was lhw champion and probably the greatest lhw of all time, i'll give him that. but he tried to move up in weight and that doesn't work if that is not your natural weight. charles fought at middleweight for years, so he is not a natural hw either. walcott also started at a lower weight class and fought there for some time. so they are BLOWN UP! alright, spinks was scared and that led to his downfall. but my point is that marciano fought 180lbers and tyson fought 220lbers. now do you think that marciano would do the same things he did to 180lb fighters to 220lbers. no, because they are bigger and would take punches better. and tyson would not struggle against moore, walcott, charles, louis, and marciano for that matter, all you did was try to find holes in my argument, which never existed, because you started saying that moore was a great lhw, which i said already and i'm not denying you. please answer me one question. do you think tyson would lose to any of the people marciano fought, 'cause if you do, then you have serious mental problems.

Dempsey1238
12-05-2005, 02:58 AM
Moore did beat the top heavyweight contenders of the day, like Vales, and JIMMY BIVINS, Bob Baker, and a host of other heavyweight contenders,

Its not like Moore did not earn his shot at Marciano,

And if your juding by Leonard Morrow ko of Moore, Moore had a very busy schudle, fighting like 12 times a year or so.

Almost unheard of. For Today.

I put a lot of stock in Marciano's win over Moore.

Pugnacious_Z
12-05-2005, 06:51 AM
tyson hit harder then marciano for sure, 180lb hard puncher vs a 220lb hard puncher, the 220lb has to win. ill tell u dis, there are time where a 140lb fighter can hit harder then a 200lb fighter but dats coz the 140lb fighter has a decastating punch and the 200lb fighter has a crap punch. if u get 2 guys who both punch very hard for their weight, then its common sense to say the heavier will hit harder. but it cant be 100% certain unless if their was a force machine or sumthing which they both yoused.

leff
12-05-2005, 08:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

butterfly

im gonna repeat my question

do you box yourself?

also what exactly do you mean by natural weight?

leff
12-05-2005, 08:31 AM
tyson hit harder then marciano for sure, 180lb hard puncher vs a 220lb hard puncher, the 220lb has to win. ill tell u dis, there are time where a 140lb fighter can hit harder then a 200lb fighter but dats coz the 140lb fighter has a decastating punch and the 200lb fighter has a crap punch. if u get 2 guys who both punch very hard for their weight, then its common sense to say the heavier will hit harder. but it cant be 100% certain unless if their was a force machine or sumthing which they both yoused.

i perfectly understande your logic.

but has alot to do with genetics and the way you throw a punch,tyson had lightning fast combos whilst marciano had slow one blow at the, they both had a very high percentage off ko`s, so i would have to gove the hardest punch to marciano,BUT it doesnt mean he is more dangerous than
tyson is.

machotime
12-05-2005, 09:07 AM
I really feel that Marciano hit way harder. The man broke arms, crushed bones and had a chin of steel. Both Tyson and Marciano hit hard, but raw punching power has to go to Marciano.

Dempsey 1919
12-05-2005, 03:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

butterfly

im gonna repeat my question

do you box yourself?

also what exactly do you mean by natural weight?

no, i don't box myself. and natural weight is the weight that a fighter is most comfortable in. packing on pounds, even if it is muscle does not help punching power or chin if your body requires a smaller weight. it all depends on your frame.

leff
12-05-2005, 03:38 PM
i thought so, cause whan you fight you soon realize that punching power mainly comes from technic and leverage, if you did box you would know that 180 man can punch harder than a 220man.

hell ive seen guys at 120 punch harder than 220.both active fighters.


also to the natural weight think you say many off this guys was former lightheavys and middlewieght and they where not at their natural wieght.

walcot turned pro at 16 and its natural fore a guy to weigh more at age 35 than age 16.

Dempsey 1919
12-05-2005, 03:48 PM
i thought so, cause whan you fight you soon realize that punching power mainly comes from technic and leverage, if you did box you would know that 180 man can punch harder than a 220man.

hell ive seen guys at 120 punch harder than 220.both active fighters.


also to the natural weight think you say many off this guys was former lightheavys and middlewieght and they where not at their natural wieght.

walcot turned pro at 16 and its natural fore a guy to weigh more at age 35 than age 16.

alright, i'll give you that one. but charles and moore were definetely blown up.

Skydog
12-05-2005, 06:37 PM
Tyson isn't even known for his punching power. It was the speed of his hands that got him so many KO's. Rocky didn't have that fast of hands, and destroyed people. Like NextRocky has told us, he put a guy in a coma and paralyzed half of someone's body. Someone he fought (I can't remember who) tried to cover up with their arms and got one of the broken.

One of you guys find me a punch of Tyson's that even comes close to the right Marciano landed on Walcott.

Dempsey 1919
12-05-2005, 06:38 PM
Tyson isn't even known for his punching power. It was the speed of his hands that got him so many KO's. Rocky didn't have that fast of hands, and destroyed people. Like NextRocky has told us, he put a guy in a coma and paralyzed half of someone's body. Someone he fought (I can't remember who) tried to cover up with their arms and got one of the broken.

One of you guys find me a punch of Tyson's that even comes close to the right Marciano landed on Walcott.

michael jack johnson.

Skydog
12-05-2005, 08:23 PM
Damn, your right. But still, I don't think it such an impact on Johnson as Marciano's did on Walcott. Walcott's face is grotesque when he is hit, and as Bert Sugar called it, "Walcott's face was turned to pudding."

Dempsey 1919
12-05-2005, 08:26 PM
Damn, your right. But still, I don't think it such an impact on Johnson as Marciano's did on Walcott. Walcott's face is grotesque when he is hit, and as Bert Sugar called it, "Walcott's face was turned to pudding."

depends on how the face is positioned. marciano probably hit hit him where the most skin was.

Da Iceman
12-05-2005, 08:45 PM
i havent seen that fight so can you tell me exactly what happend when he knocked him out was he unconcious ?

Kid Achilles
12-05-2005, 08:49 PM
Walcott was knocked the **** out in the worst way possible. It looked like he would never get up again.

Pugnacious_Z
12-06-2005, 06:12 AM
hey leff, u say dat punching power comes from technique and leverage yet u agree with butterfly when he said your power doesnt come with you as you pack on the pounds of muscle.

leff
12-06-2005, 08:27 AM
Walcott was knocked the **** out in the worst way possible. It looked like he would never get up again.

taht ko was cruel it looked as he was shoot

leff
12-06-2005, 08:30 AM
hey leff, u say dat punching power comes from technique and leverage yet u agree with butterfly when he said your power doesnt come with you as you pack on the pounds of muscle.

weight and strength useally has something to do with power but it doesnt have to.

Dempsey 1919
12-06-2005, 04:22 PM
weight and strength useally has something to do with power but it doesnt have to.

it's bone structure, natural weight and strength.

leff
12-06-2005, 04:25 PM
it's bone structure, natural weight and strength.

arent you forgetting something called technic?

Dempsey 1919
12-06-2005, 04:28 PM
arent you forgetting something called technic?

yeah, that too.

Skydog
12-06-2005, 05:19 PM
A lot of times, punching power comes from killer instinct.

Dempsey 1919
12-06-2005, 05:55 PM
A lot of times, punching power comes from killer instinct.

well, every fighter has that, or is supposed to have.

leff
12-06-2005, 06:04 PM
well, every fighter has that, or is supposed to have.


ummm yes but like it is with all things it varies how much

Skydog
12-06-2005, 06:10 PM
well, every fighter has that, or is supposed to have.

But usually the hardest hitters have the most of it.

Dempsey 1919
12-06-2005, 06:12 PM
But usually the hardest hitters have the most of it.

whatever you say.

TuPrincipe
12-06-2005, 06:13 PM
Marciano.

Tyson is nothing but a fraud.

leff
12-06-2005, 06:14 PM
But usually the hardest hitters have the most of it.

ummm the toughest fighters uselly have the most off it.

killer instinct wont make the punch harder

Dempsey 1919
12-06-2005, 06:15 PM
ummm the toughest fighters uselly have the most off it.

killer instinct wont make the punch harder

yeah, caquse like i said, every fighter has that.

Skydog
12-06-2005, 06:38 PM
Jesus, it doesn't even take someone that knows or watches boxing to figure this one out. A fighter with killer instinct wants to destroy his opponent, therefore, they throw much harder punches. Foreman arguably the most killer instinct of any fighter, and, oh my god, he was arguably the hardest hitter of all-time.

Kid Achilles
12-06-2005, 07:03 PM
Not every fighter has equally strong killer instinct. Killer instinct is as much an inherent trait as courage. Guys like Tyson, Jack Dempsey, and Joe Louis had great killer instinct and were great finishers. Guys with poor killer instinct let opponents off the hook subconsiously by hesitating to throw (for even half a second) when their opponent is stunned.

I also agree that mindset and killer instinct has a sway over punching power. There is some validity to this.

Pugnacious_Z
12-07-2005, 12:34 AM
u cant tell punching power by anything really, ive seen guys with huge frames, heavy natural weight and good technique and cudnt punch worth ****, 2 many factors involved in throwing hard punch

Skydog
12-08-2005, 09:19 PM
ummm the toughest fighters uselly have the most off it.

killer instinct wont make the punch harder

How the hell do tougher opponents have more of it? Killer instinct makes you want to finish your opponent, or hurt him ("kill" him), something that usually hard hitters and great finishers do.

phallus
12-08-2005, 09:56 PM
How the hell do tougher opponents have more of it? Killer instinct makes you want to finish your opponent, or hurt him ("kill" him), something that usually hard hitters and great finishers do.


aaron pryor had awesome killer instinct, when he thought the guy was hurt, he was like a shark that smelled blood - that's killer instinct

Da Iceman
12-09-2005, 06:37 PM
doesnt leverage help

buddereye
12-09-2005, 09:34 PM
i love it when morons like you make a REALLY ****TY arguement then say that "i just owned you" closing statement when all they did was rant and rave and hold on to tyson's nuts for dear life and make ridiculous biased statements with no truth at all. thank you for making me feel so superior.

moore was crap? that statement alone should put u in line to be banned for sheer ignorance. moore has more KOs than anyone in history, the 2nd longest LHW title reign in history, fought true legends all throughout his career and was in the game for longer than 1/4 century. can tyson say that?... no.

the only reason you say they were blown up cuz they never weighed more than 200 lbs. heres some inside info, 90% of all HW champions would be considered CWs cuz of today's stupid weight standards.

"took marciano 13 rounds to KO walcott the 1st time"? "couldnt even KO charles the 1st time and took him 8 rounds to do it the 2nd time"? "took him 9 rounds to KO moore and couldnt even keep him down after the 1st KD"? "moore had a glass chin"? im not even going to bother insulting you about these statements. theyre just too horrendous to merit a flame contest.

spinks was a *****. he was scared out of his mind to put up a fight with tyson. moore wasnt scared. and he was KDd 5 times against rocky cuz he had something spinks didnt: HEART. spinks stayed down cuz he was a scared *****. saying that "rocky couldnt even keep moore down" is one of the worst arguements i have ever heard and trust me, ive heard a LOT of dumbass arguements.

who did tyson fight? a blown up LHW spinks, a 39 year old holmes, evander holyfield who smacked tyson around like a *****, and lennox lewis who battered tyson into dust.

who did rocky fight? an old joe louis, jersey joe walcott, ezzard charles, and archie moore.

you know what the funny thing is? tyson is 2-4 against quality opposition. rocky is 6-0 against his quality opposition.

rocky hit harder, and you cant prove that he didnt.Your the moron, Spinks was no ***** and a prime Tyson would ko Holyfield and Lewis. Did you forget that tyson went to jail for 3 years. Even when he fought Buster Douglas that was not the Mike Tyson that we were use to. Douglas did not fight the real Tyson. Tyson did not move side to side like he usually did and he was not there mentally."Leave Butterfly alone"

Da Iceman
12-09-2005, 09:39 PM
Your the moron, Spinks was no ***** and a prime Tyson would ko Holyfield and Lewis. Did you forget that tyson went to jail for 3 years. Even when he fought Buster Douglas that was not the Mike Tyson that we were use to. Douglas did not fight the real Tyson. Tyson did not move side to side like he usually did and he was not there mentally."Leave Butterfly alone"
oh **** that tyson was in his prime, he had no heart and a weak mind. buster exposed him by showing if you stand there and trade with tyson he'l get scared and not fight back. tyson wasnt use to people trying to box him thats why he lost.

holyfield had the right style to beat tyson in his prime. push and punch

buddereye
12-09-2005, 09:49 PM
oh **** that tyson was in his prime, he had no heart and a weak mind. buster exposed him by showing if you stand there and trade with tyson he'l get scared and not fight back. tyson wasnt use to people trying to box him thats why he lost.

holyfield had the right style to beat tyson in his prime. push and puncha 21 year old Tyson would have not let that push and punch **** happen.

Da Iceman
12-09-2005, 09:59 PM
this wouldve been like frazier vs. foreman in the 80's

Skydog
12-10-2005, 03:39 PM
i havent seen that fight so can you tell me exactly what happend when he knocked him out was he unconcious ?

I'll send you a clip to show what happened. Walcott looked like he was shot.

Skydog
12-10-2005, 03:40 PM
aaron pryor had awesome killer instinct, when he thought the guy was hurt, he was like a shark that smelled blood - that's killer instinct

Exactly, and what does that have to do with him being tough?

Dempsey 1919
12-13-2005, 12:29 AM
point is tyson did to hw what marciano did to lhw and cruiserweights, so tyson hits harder. plus tyson used bigger gloves.

Da Iceman
12-13-2005, 07:51 PM
im sick and tired of you thinkin weight has to do with your chin, in the 50's most heavyweights weighed as much as modern day crusierweights. you think ten pounds is gonna make you take a punch better, no! chin is more mental then physical. ok tyson wore bigger gloves,1 or 2 ounces isnt gonna make rocky punch like a bantam weight

Dempsey 1919
12-13-2005, 07:58 PM
im sick and tired of you thinkin weight has to do with your chin, in the 50's most heavyweights weighed as much as modern day crusierweights. you think ten pounds is gonna make you take a punch better, no! chin is more mental then physical. ok tyson wore bigger gloves,1 or 2 ounces isnt gonna make rocky punch like a bantam weight

ok, now the last time i checked 220-180 is 40 lbs, not ten.

Da Iceman
12-13-2005, 09:54 PM
where did 220 come from

Skydog
12-13-2005, 10:46 PM
Tyson KO'ed people, Rocky hurt people.

'Nuff said.

Dempsey 1919
12-13-2005, 10:57 PM
where did 220 come from

tyson=220 rocky=180 220-180=40!

Dempsey 1919
12-13-2005, 10:58 PM
Tyson KO'ed people, Rocky hurt people.

'Nuff said.

oh, so tyson didn't hurt anybody. did you see what he did to john alderson's face?

Skydog
12-13-2005, 11:06 PM
True, Tyson hurt people, but he doesn't even come close to what Rocky did to some people. He nearly ended Walcott's career. When he fought LaStarza, he had shut both eyes, split both lips, cuts under and above both eyes, swollen left cheek, and LaStarza was begging the ref to not let Marciano hit him again. I believe NextRocky has told us that Marciano put a guy in a coma, ended his career, and paralyzed half of his body. When someone (can't remember who, help me out here NextRocky or Kid Achilles) tried to cover up to avoid punishment from Rocky, Marciano snapped his arm.

Dempsey 1919
12-13-2005, 11:48 PM
True, Tyson hurt people, but he doesn't even come close to what Rocky did to some people. He nearly ended Walcott's career. When he fought LaStarza, he had shut both eyes, split both lips, cuts under and above both eyes, swollen left cheek, and LaStarza was begging the ref to not let Marciano hit him again. I believe NextRocky has told us that Marciano put a guy in a coma, ended his career, and paralyzed half of his body. When someone (can't remember who, help me out here NextRocky or Kid Achilles) tried to cover up to avoid punishment from Rocky, Marciano snapped his arm.

i had a thread about who would you rather fight, tyson or ali. the fact is that an accumilation of punches do more damage than one big punch. ali would do more damage cause he would hit you with alot of punches, while tyson hit you with one and knocked you out. likewise marciano is not as strong as tyson, so it takes more punches from him to knock someone out, so there is more damage. tyson hits you a couple of times, so there is no damage there. if tyson hit you as much as marciano did then he would have literally killed people.

Skydog
12-14-2005, 12:04 AM
Uh, Tyson was known to KO people because of how many times he hit them. Nearly all of Tyson's KO's were from lightning fast combinations, whereas most of Marciano's were from the big "Suzie Q."

Dempsey 1919
12-14-2005, 12:10 AM
Uh, Tyson was known to KO people because of how many times he hit them. Nearly all of Tyson's KO's were from lightning fast combinations, whereas most of Marciano's were from the big "Suzie Q."

tyson fought bigger stronger, chinnier people with bigger gloves to lessen ko percentage.

phallus
12-14-2005, 12:14 AM
True, Tyson hurt people, but he doesn't even come close to what Rocky did to some people. He nearly ended Walcott's career. When he fought LaStarza, he had shut both eyes, split both lips, cuts under and above both eyes, swollen left cheek, and LaStarza was begging the ref to not let Marciano hit him again. I believe NextRocky has told us that Marciano put a guy in a coma, ended his career, and paralyzed half of his body. When someone (can't remember who, help me out here NextRocky or Kid Achilles) tried to cover up to avoid punishment from Rocky, Marciano snapped his arm.


Carmine Vingo was the guy that Rocky paralyzed, he was a big man, 6'4" and 230 lbs, Rocky ****ed his **** up. Vingo was comparable in size to today's hw's, and Rocky had little trouble with him. the broken arm guy was Roland LaStarza - Rocky fought him twice, the broken arms was the second time. La Starza held his arms up to parry shots like Jack Johnson used to, Rocky's solution to this was to pound LaStarza's arms with his big Suzie Q - his right hand until LaStarza had to drop his hands. it worked

Dempsey 1919
12-14-2005, 12:19 AM
Carmine Vingo was the guy that Rocky paralyzed, he was a big man, 6'4" and 230 lbs, Rocky ****ed his **** up. Vingo was comparable in size to today's hw's, and Rocky had little trouble with him. the broken arm guy was Roland LaStarza - Rocky fought him twice, the broken arms was the second time. La Starza held his arms up to parry shots like Jack Johnson used to, Rocky's solution to this was to pound LaStarza's arms with his big Suzie Q - his right hand until LaStarza had to drop his hands. it worked

the more i think about that, the more i think marciano is a *****.

Da Iceman
12-14-2005, 10:08 AM
the more i think about you the more i think your a *****

Dempsey 1919
12-14-2005, 01:38 PM
the more i think about you the more i think your a *****

cmon, rocky purposely broke people's arms so they couldn't hold them up so he could hit him in the face? isn't that kind of dirty?

Dempsey1238
12-14-2005, 02:28 PM
no, thats a tactic battle plan.

He was known to bust up blood vessles in the arms. And its legal.

Dempsey 1919
12-14-2005, 03:56 PM
no, thats a tactic battle plan.

He was known to bust up blood vessles in the arms. And its legal.

just proves the man as so unskilled he had to break their arms cause he couldn't hit them in the face!

XionComrade
12-14-2005, 04:03 PM
Well hell, the only reason Tyson didn't do it was because he couldn't do it...

Holyfield, Tyson, and a bunch of other fighters were alot cheaper than Marciano...

leff
12-14-2005, 06:01 PM
just proves the man as so unskilled he had to break their arms cause he couldn't hit them in the face!

ummm

its called tactics you moron and no hitting the arms aint dirty since its legal.

leff
12-14-2005, 06:02 PM
tyson=220 rocky=180 220-180=40!

prime to prime actually 215-185 is 30 lbs but yeah tyson was alot havier

Skydog
12-14-2005, 07:00 PM
Well hell, the only reason Tyson didn't do it was because he couldn't do it...

Holyfield, Tyson, and a bunch of other fighters were alot cheaper than Marciano...

You can't really call Marciano cheap if you're favorite fighter is Ali.

phallus
12-14-2005, 09:30 PM
cmon, rocky purposely broke people's arms so they couldn't hold them up so he could hit him in the face? isn't that kind of dirty?



it's less dirty than some of the **** i see in the boxing ring today, but if u want to hear dirty, this is ****ing dirty, harry greb, the greatest middleweight of all time, used to thumb guys in the eye when he was having trouble with his opponents - he did it until Kid Norfolk did it to him and detached his retina. hitting guys on the arms is legal, the punches don't count but it's legal

Dempsey1238
12-14-2005, 10:28 PM
Marciano did not break arms in the way Tyson tried to break Arms.

Tyson try to break it by twisted the arms.

Marciano power right on thought with his power.

machotime
12-15-2005, 02:35 AM
Marciano did not break arms in the way Tyson tried to break Arms.

Tyson try to break it by twisted the arms.

Marciano power right on thought with his power.
Marciano wins this one easily. One punch power has to go to him. Tyson may have more biting strength though.

And you are right, hitting the arms is a tactic. Not dirty like someone else mentioned.

Pugnacious_Z
12-15-2005, 04:48 AM
how the fuk is hittin the arm dirty, trust me, if i cud break arms, i wud do it, who wudnt

Imira
12-15-2005, 11:16 AM
it's less dirty than some of the **** i see in the boxing ring today, but if u want to hear dirty, this is ****ing dirty, harry greb, the greatest middleweight of all time, used to thumb guys in the eye when he was having trouble with his opponents - he did it until Kid Norfolk did it to him and detached his retina. hitting guys on the arms is legal, the punches don't count but it's legal

It's believed that Greb's fight with Bob Roper, in 1923, is where he lost his sight.

catskills23
12-15-2005, 06:24 PM
there is no way marciano hit harder than tyson no 180 pound fighter hit harder than a 220 pound fighter .

leff
12-15-2005, 06:32 PM
there is no way marciano hit harder than tyson no 180 pound fighter hit harder than a 220 pound fighter .

i take it that you dont box, cause if you did you would know its possible.

and fore the recor prime tyson weight 215 prime marciano weigh 185, 30 lbs diference.

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 06:38 PM
i take it that you dont box, cause if you did you would know its possible.

and fore the recor prime tyson weight 215 prime marciano weigh 185, 30 lbs diference.

tyson was 220.

Skydog
12-15-2005, 06:38 PM
Tell me one thing - why do so many people think weight has so much to do with punching power?

If that's the case, then Ali must hit much harder than Marciano, Frazier, Dempsey, or Louis.

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 06:41 PM
Tell me one thing - why do so many people think weight has so much to do with punching power?

If that's the case, then Ali must hit much harder than Marciano, Frazier, Dempsey, or Louis.

it's not everything, but it plays a major role.

leff
12-15-2005, 06:45 PM
took a looka at boxrec and he was between 215 and 220 in his prime, marcianos weight varied ti but useally 185.

Dempsey 1919
12-15-2005, 07:03 PM
took a looka at boxrec and he was between 215 and 220 in his prime, marcianos weight varied ti but useally 185.

just because that's how he started, doesn't mean that's his prime. that's like saying muhammad ali in his prime weighed 183 1/2lbs., cause that's how he started.

leff
12-16-2005, 05:40 AM
just because that's how he started, doesn't mean that's his prime. that's like saying muhammad ali in his prime weighed 183 1/2lbs., cause that's how he started.


nono

he was between 215-220 in his best fights, like aginst ruddock,spimks,holmes and tucker.

Pugnacious_Z
12-16-2005, 05:59 AM
weight does play a major role when comparing 2 very hard punches but when comparing a professional fighter to a novice, then weight doesnt matter as much

leff
12-16-2005, 10:14 AM
weight does play a major role when comparing 2 very hard punches but when comparing a professional fighter to a novice, then weight doesnt matter as much

logically and and useally a 215 guy will hit harder than a 185, but leverage,genetics,strength,technic etc can easy make the lighter guy the heavier hitter.

fore example a 215-220 tyson hits harder than a 250vk, a 260 mccline etc

Brassangel
12-16-2005, 01:36 PM
Tyson, in the early professional fights, hovered around 219. When he was still under Rooney, he dropped to 215 which gave him a little more explosiveness. At the Douglas fight, he jumped to 220.5. So, let's put him between 215-219 during the "ripe" eras of his career.

While it's true that weight doesn't always matter, as Bruce Lee could knock people out who weighed twice what he did, let's keep it simple. Muhammad Ali, in the 60's, usually held weight close to 210-215; and jumped up close to 220 in the 70's. This usually gave him a weight advantage over his opponents. That doesn't mean that he was a harder hitter though, because slugging was not his style. If he did stand and put leverage behind his punches, however, they would deal considerable damage. That's the advantage of having over 210 pounds behind a punch, and your opponent is lighter than you are. When he needed it, the power could be there.

Rocky Marciano was a slugger who could put about 185 pounds into a well-turned right hand. His right hand was absolutely textbook, and it put a lot of guys down. It's harder to knock down a heavier guy, however, when your target has 30 pounds on you. Mike Tyson was never knocked down or knocked out with one punch. It usually took 8-10 rounds of punishment to weaken him enough to go down. That punishment also came from guys who weighed far more than 185 (ie: Douglas 230+, Lewis who weighed about 1000 lbs., etc.). Marciano would most likely come straight at Tyson and would be in for a sore surprise. His punches wouldn't take the bobbing and weaving Tyson out quick enough, while the faster, heavier volume puncher would tear into Rocky. After all, Tyson knocked out a lot of guys who were heavier than 215-219; give him a 30 pound head start and he's gonna feast.

Pugnacious_Z
12-20-2005, 09:42 AM
(ie: Douglas 230+, Lewis who weighed about 1000 lbs., etc.). .[/QUOTE]

lewis weighed 1000lbs, HAHAHHA, was dat wen he wasnt training, LOL

Brassangel
12-20-2005, 02:31 PM
I was simply stating that Lennox Lewis could have started a whole weight class on his own. Fine, he was really about 985.

Verstyle
12-20-2005, 02:40 PM
it's bone structure, natural weight and strength.


it comes from genetics to. I can not go to the gym for months and go in later and still punch harder and faster then most guys cause of my genetics.

Verstyle
12-20-2005, 02:42 PM
True, Tyson hurt people, but he doesn't even come close to what Rocky did to some people. He nearly ended Walcott's career. When he fought LaStarza, he had shut both eyes, split both lips, cuts under and above both eyes, swollen left cheek, and LaStarza was begging the ref to not let Marciano hit him again. I believe NextRocky has told us that Marciano put a guy in a coma, ended his career, and paralyzed half of his body. When someone (can't remember who, help me out here NextRocky or Kid Achilles) tried to cover up to avoid punishment from Rocky, Marciano snapped his arm.


jus curious what was the glove sizes back in those days? cause that can be a big factor on how he did what he did cause those gloves looked pretty small to me

Verstyle
12-20-2005, 02:48 PM
Carmine Vingo was the guy that Rocky paralyzed, he was a big man, 6'4" and 230 lbs, Rocky ****ed his **** up. Vingo was comparable in size to today's hw's, and Rocky had little trouble with him. the broken arm guy was Roland LaStarza - Rocky fought him twice, the broken arms was the second time. La Starza held his arms up to parry shots like Jack Johnson used to, Rocky's solution to this was to pound LaStarza's arms with his big Suzie Q - his right hand until LaStarza had to drop his hands. it worked


they said he recovered from it

Skydog
12-20-2005, 03:24 PM
The glove sizes weren't much different at all. If you look at them, they seem almost the same size.

leff
12-20-2005, 05:35 PM
The glove sizes weren't much different at all. If you look at them, they seem almost the same size.

well it aint only about the size its also about padding

Brassangel
12-21-2005, 02:16 PM
And the weight, and how they were designed, and how easy it was for cornermen to redistribute the padding, etc. A lot of times cornermen used to move the padding away from the knuckles to give their fighters' punches a little more zip. Ah...the golden years of early boxing politics when cheating was the biggest part.

Now people bite off body parts or head-butt their opponents. A little less subtle today.

McGoorty
07-19-2011, 06:10 AM
For Tyson his KOs weren't really about the power, it was the sheer speed and skill behind them IMO.

Marciano was a brawler with little orthodox boxing skills, his KOs were about catching his opponents off guard IMO, very strange fighter, so who hit harder?


I think Marciano hit harder, and don't say anything about the weight, it was not a issue here...

:killyou::luvbed: I'm with you, ROCKY would have nailed HOLYFIELD to the floor, and tyson was quicker, ROCKY's CHIN,.. 12 out of Ten,... TYSON's CHIN,... 7 out of Ten,... ROCKY has far greater Resume too,... how can anyone knock the likes of CHARLES, JERSEY JOE and MOORE (the greatest KO record in all boxing), as opponents,.. CRUDE, don't be rude, a crude fighter was BAER, CARNERA, GALENTO and Co.. Rocky The hardest pound for pound puncher above Lightweight,.. Period :unitedsta

chiguy91
07-19-2011, 06:17 AM
@ 1:54. i ain't arguing with the raging bull
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