View Full Version : Miguel Cotto vs Carlos Palomino prime for prime at 147


them_apples
02-27-2012, 10:11 PM
How does this go? Palomino is a better banger and can fight inside, Cotto a superior Boxer and has a small edge in speed (in his prime).

they both seem to have similar resumes, Cotto beating everyone but the best (Pacquiao, Margarito (loaded?), Palomino the same. (losing decisions to Duran and Benitez).

I don't know a lot about Palomino but I like watching him fight when I can get my hands on it.

Scott9945
02-27-2012, 10:37 PM
Interesting matchup. I saw Palomino fight many times both live and on TV. His biggest strength is his stamina. Him and Monzon were the two best late round fighters that I've seen in my lifetime. I'd give Cotto a good shot if the fight was 10 rounds, and little chance if it is 15. So in a 12 rounder I'll take Palomino by unanimous decision or late stoppage. It would be an action fight for sure.

Starof David
02-28-2012, 07:20 AM
Interesting matchup. I saw Palomino fight many times both live and on TV. His biggest strength is his stamina. Him and Monzon were the two best late round fighters that I've seen in my lifetime. I'd give Cotto a good shot if the fight was 10 rounds, and little chance if it is 15. So in a 12 rounder I'll take Palomino by unanimous decision or late stoppage. It would be an action fight for sure.

I was thinking along those lines. I am guessing Cotto would do well early and Palomino would get stronger as the bout goes on. But I don't know who would win.

lightsout_finit
02-28-2012, 09:21 AM
gotta favor palomino....

Cotto fades even when things are going his way (alfonso gomez)
Also I had him losing to Clottey who is terrible.....

One other thing to think about is cottos lack of heart...
I mean if he was gettin masterfully whipped by Duran like Palomino was
I think he would give up/retire....

:)

savorduhflavor
02-28-2012, 11:25 AM
gotta favor palomino....

Cotto fades even when things are going his way (alfonso gomez)
Also I had him losing to Clottey who is terrible.....

One other thing to think about is cottos lack of heart...
I mean if he was gettin masterfully whipped by Duran like Palomino was
I think he would give up/retire....

:)

What in the hell? Cotto faded after 5 brutally one sided rounds?

Prime Cotto didn't fade much towards the end of fights. Cotto fading in the Mosley fight is very exaggerated. The cut in his lip from the Judah fight opened up and he felt he was ahead so he backed off. He still fought toe to toe in the second half of the 10th and won the 11th.

lightsout_finit
02-28-2012, 11:37 AM
What in the hell? Cotto faded after 5 brutally one sided rounds?

Prime Cotto didn't fade much towards the end of fights. Cotto fading in the Mosley fight is very exaggerated. The cut in his lip from the Judah fight opened up and he felt he was ahead so he backed off. He still fought toe to toe in the second half of the 10th and won the 11th.


Yes Cotto faded after 5 one sided rounds. That is pathetic.
I remember the nuthuggers on here making excuses like he felt sorry for gomez LOL!!!

I don't get what you mean by exaggerated. Cotto won legit but
he was spent and looked to run away for most of the second half of the mosley fight.

:)

-DSG-
02-28-2012, 12:20 PM
Yes Cotto faded after 5 one sided rounds. That is pathetic.
I remember the nuthuggers on here making excuses like he felt sorry for gomez LOL!!!

I don't get what you mean by exaggerated. Cotto won legit but
he was spent and looked to run away for most of the second half of the mosley fight.

:)

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

The_Demon
02-28-2012, 12:49 PM
one of Palominos key strengths was his staminia,huge problem for Cotto,who i think would get stopped late after doing well for 7/8 rounds

them_apples
02-28-2012, 02:00 PM
gotta favor palomino....

Cotto fades even when things are going his way (alfonso gomez)
Also I had him losing to Clottey who is terrible.....

One other thing to think about is cottos lack of heart...
I mean if he was gettin masterfully whipped by Duran like Palomino was
I think he would give up/retire....

:)

Cotto does always fade, and yes in fights he's winning too (Mosley) but he usually just get's on his bike more, he's shown he's pretty hard to get rid of when he does that. I disagree about Clottey being terrible, he's just limited. A lot of that had to do with a cut as well.

lightsout_finit
02-28-2012, 02:45 PM
Cotto does always fade, and yes in fights he's winning too (Mosley) but he usually just get's on his bike more, he's shown he's pretty hard to get rid of when he does that. I disagree about Clottey being terrible, he's just limited. A lot of that had to do with a cut as well.


Clottey is strong and has a decent defence.......
But the reason I believe he is terrible is because he is very mentally weak even more than cotto..........

He was doing well against margo but then after he bruised his finger he decided not to fight back anymore.
And lets not even talk about tha pac fight.......

:)

savorduhflavor
02-28-2012, 03:01 PM
Yes Cotto faded after 5 one sided rounds. That is pathetic.
I remember the nuthuggers on here making excuses like he felt sorry for gomez LOL!!!

I don't get what you mean by exaggerated. Cotto won legit but
he was spent and looked to run away for most of the second half of the mosley fight.

:)

I mean this is just filled with inaccuracies. None of what you're saying is true, literally not one word.

That said, this fight would be predictable. Cotto would get out to a lead and he'd either hang on or get stopped late. I could see either happening, but prime Cotto was pretty resilient.

The Surgeon
02-28-2012, 04:39 PM
Yes Cotto faded after 5 one sided rounds. That is pathetic.
I remember the nuthuggers on here making excuses like he felt sorry for gomez LOL!!!

I don't get what you mean by exaggerated. Cotto won legit but
he was spent and looked to run away for most of the second half of the mosley fight.

:)

Cotto did NOT Fade vs Gomez. That just didnt happen at all.... :ugh:


As for Mosley, he changed tactics and a somewhat tiring Cotto adapted, he was tired yes but he kept letting go with hard shots and kept winning rounds, just because i guy starts mixing it up and goes on the backfoot doesn't mean he faded.

The Gomez comment though was totally inaccurate

them_apples
02-28-2012, 04:43 PM
If Palomino can get to him late he could win via stoppage. But he'd probably lose a lot of the early rounds so if he didn't get the stoppage it would probably be in Cottos favor. Palomino would be better served in a 15 round fight.

lightsout_finit
02-28-2012, 05:54 PM
I mean this is just filled with inaccuracies. None of what you're saying is true, literally not one word.

That said, this fight would be predictable. Cotto would get out to a lead and he'd either hang on or get stopped late. I could see either happening, but prime Cotto was pretty resilient.

Cotto has never been what i'd call resilient....
get floored by low level fighters and quits when things get tough....
that ain't resilient.....
talk bout bias no wonder in ur eyes he weren't tired in that exhibition

Cotto did NOT Fade vs Gomez. That just didnt happen at all.... :ugh:


As for Mosley, he changed tactics and a somewhat tiring Cotto adapted, he was tired yes but he kept letting go with hard shots and kept winning rounds, just because i guy starts mixing it up and goes on the backfoot doesn't mean he faded.

The Gomez comment though was totally inaccurate


Cotto was literally murderin gomez as soon as the fight started.

And Gomez was so bad when he swung for Cotto he would miss wildly
when cottos head wasn't even moving????

By the third it should have been over but as usual cotto was blowin and looked weakened.......


Watch the fight again it is mind blowing that it went as long as it did
considering how it started.

Scott9945
02-28-2012, 08:56 PM
The Gomez comment though was totally inaccurate

It was ridiculous. To criticize Cotto for such a lopsided beatdown shows a clear bias against him. Its not like anyone else has ever stopped Gomez sooner.

jreckoning
02-28-2012, 09:27 PM
Cotto did NOT Fade vs Gomez. That just didnt happen at all.... :ugh:


As for Mosley, he changed tactics and a somewhat tiring Cotto adapted, he was tired yes but he kept letting go with hard shots and kept winning rounds, just because i guy starts mixing it up and goes on the backfoot doesn't mean he faded.

The Gomez comment though was totally inaccurate


Cotto was fading in the Mosley fight. The first 6 rounds or so, Cotto just had the best jab I've seen in a long time just controlling Mosley and he was sharp and accurate.
Then he forgot it, Mosley winged a few right hands and he was on his back feet.

Mosley closed the gap, I just thought that was the best Cotto jab I've ever seen that night and he just put it on the shelf late.

savorduhflavor
02-29-2012, 08:38 AM
Cotto was fading in the Mosley fight. The first 6 rounds or so, Cotto just had the best jab I've seen in a long time just controlling Mosley and he was sharp and accurate.
Then he forgot it, Mosley winged a few right hands and he was on his back feet.

Mosley closed the gap, I just thought that was the best Cotto jab I've ever seen that night and he just put it on the shelf late.

Nah, I'm not sure why this has become the general perception. It was through the first 8 rounds that Cotto was controlling everything. In the 9th the cut inside the lip from the Judah fight opened up and he started backing up. He also said in the post fight that he realized he wasn't going to knock Mosley out and felt he was well ahead on the cards so he boxed safely.

Even then, he had a great second half of the tenth where he was pressing the action, won the 11th pretty clearly, and did just as little as Shane in the 12th cause he thought he had the fight in the bag.

I implore anyone to watch the fight again.....not trying to like blindly defend Cotto but that's legit exactly what happened(that's my favorite fight seen it far too many times).

lightsout_finit
02-29-2012, 09:53 AM
It was ridiculous. To criticize Cotto for such a lopsided beatdown shows a clear bias against him. Its not like anyone else has ever stopped Gomez sooner.


I'll admit I'm no Cotto fan.........
And I am criticizeing his endurance, but I never said he didn't beat the hell out of Gomez!
;)

I honestly believe despite Cotto being economical with his punches and evrything going his way he looked way more tired than he should be by the end of that fight.......
:)

Ray Corso
02-29-2012, 09:57 AM
Cotto looks small to me and I'll guess he fought the majority of his bouts as a lightwelter? I don't think hes more than 5'7" so that makes him very short in that division. Great fighters can move up in weight and do well because of their higher skill levels but a decent fighter will become slighter in structure and thats what I see in Cotto against Palomino. Palomino was 5'9" and fought his entire carreer at welter he was stronger than Cotto physically and probably mentally. Cottos style could give Carlos some trouble Carlos didn't react quickly to punches at times and if Cotto could move in and out he could frustrate Carlos. I think that Palomino being the bigger stronger man and their skill levels off set one another would catch up eventually and win. I like Cotto because hes learning late in his carreer how to fight his fight!!! Whats best for him round per round is a difficult lesson for fighters to learn whats in the "book" so to speak doesn't usually make for reality for individuals. You may start out fighting a certain style and a different mind set then what you wind up doing, the maturation proccess can bring changes and if you adopt to them quickly the better of you'll be. Those who can't find themselves if they need to adapt usually get lost in the boxing shuffle which can spell "opponents" much of the time.
Palomino wins over Cotto, close even if he stops him. Ray.

lightsout_finit
02-29-2012, 10:02 AM
Cotto looks small to me and I'll guess he fought the majority of his bouts as a lightwelter? I don't think hes more than 5'7" so that makes him very short in that division. Great fighters can move up in weight and do well because of their higher skill levels but a decent fighter will become slighter in structure and thats what I see in Cotto against Palomino. Palomino was 5'9" and fought his entire carreer at welter he was stronger than Cotto physically and probably mentally. Cottos style could give Carlos some trouble Carlos didn't react quickly to punches at times and if Cotto could move in and out he could frustrate Carlos. I think that Palomino being the bigger stronger man and their skill levels off set one another would catch up eventually and win. I like Cotto because hes learning late in his carreer how to fight his fight!!! Whats best for him round per round is a difficult lesson for fighters to learn whats in the "book" so to speak doesn't usually make for reality for individuals. You may start out fighting a certain style and a different mind set then what you wind up doing, the maturation proccess can bring changes and if you adopt to them quickly the better of you'll be. Those who can't find themselves if they need to adapt usually get lost in the boxing shuffle which can spell "opponents" much of the time.
Palomino wins over Cotto, close even if he stops him. Ray.


Cotto mostly liked to box as a prospect he got the puncher mentality for a while now he's more a boxer again......

Ray Corso
02-29-2012, 10:34 AM
He was no different then any other prospect, once your declared a prospect you go through a few years of fighting "stiffs" thats a dozen or so KO wins. A smart managers gives a fighter a few "test" fights as the progress moves on. Once you go from prospect to contender your opponents aren't "going out" so you find out where you are within the division. Thats the maturation point, some guys who are banging out stiffs find out their power is average or below average once the opponents are fighting to win. It looks like Cotto has resigned himself to be a mover and try to punch in combination and when hes in there with a guy who can hurt him hes cautious about pitfalls and traps. I think hes doing what he feels is a necesity to give himself the best chance for success. Sometimes fans miss this maturation and expect fighters who had a high KO percentage to continue to KO people. Very few fighters bring power or gain power as they move up in weight. Cottos best weight is probably between welter and ltW. I'd guess 142 to 144 even at fight time. Ray

The Surgeon
02-29-2012, 12:03 PM
Cotto was literally murderin gomez as soon as the fight started.

And Gomez was so bad when he swung for Cotto he would miss wildly
when cottos head wasn't even moving????

By the third it should have been over but as usual cotto was blowin and looked weakened.......


Watch the fight again it is mind blowing that it went as long as it did
considering how it started.
Im not even debating this, its that ridiculous.

Mosley there is a case for (i dont see it personally) but Gomez? No, just no.

The Surgeon
02-29-2012, 12:14 PM
Cotto was fading in the Mosley fight. The first 6 rounds or so, Cotto just had the best jab I've seen in a long time just controlling Mosley and he was sharp and accurate.
Then he forgot it, Mosley winged a few right hands and he was on his back feet.

Mosley closed the gap, I just thought that was the best Cotto jab I've ever seen that night and he just put it on the shelf late.

Mosley vs Cotto is easily one of my all time favourite fights (terribly underrated!) and ive probably seen it more than any other fight excluding prime Tyson fights of course

His jab was magnificent early but as Mosley changed it up and got more aggressive Cotto went more on the counter and dispensed with the jab, he was in control the whole time and as far as i was concerned well ahead. He had a cut mouth again, wasn't about to stop Shane and knew he was ahead on the cards so played a lil defence and fought off the backfoot late though he was still winning rounds and scoring with Hard damaging punches while in reverse - Cotto can not only beat a guy on the backfoot he can beat a guy UP on the backfoot!

He was Brilliant that night IMO and while probably a bit tired and also with a mouth full of blood far from fading, fading fighters dont land with the power he was landing with

The Surgeon
02-29-2012, 12:24 PM
Here is my take from the scorecard thread


Round 1: 10-9 COTTO

Round 2: 10-9 COTTO

Round 3: 10-10 EVEN

Round 4: 10-9 COTTO

Round 5: 10-9 COTTO

Round 6: 10-9 COTTO

Round 7: 10-9 COTTO

Round 8: 10-9 COTTO

Round 9: 9-10 MOSLEY

Round 10: 9-10 MOSLEY

Round 11: 10-9 COTTO

Round 12: 9-10 MOSLEY

TOTAL - 117-112 COTTO

I felt Miguel had the better start and took the opener, The second was closer but i gave it to Cotto with his big Left cross nicking the round. I couldnt split them in the third - Even Jack Mosley said it was even and was happy as if he knew theyd lost the first 2. The fourth i prefered Cotto's work, The 5th was a big round for Cotto, The sixth he took again this timed maily based on strong right hands, Round Seven was close but i liked Miguel and he was tagging Shane as he was backing up all round, Another close round in the eighth, the nineth was Mosleys and he had Cotto backing up with a mouth injury, tho it was made close and Cotto scored with a big left at the end. Round ten belonged to Shane IMO i liked his right hand bombs but Manny Steward thought it was a Cotto round or even. In the eleventh Miguel pulled it back landing the cleaner harder shots off of the back foot but in the twelfth Miguel was backing up too much without scoring too much and Mosley took the round

them_apples
03-02-2012, 06:51 PM
that was a pretty good win for Cotto. Mosley not being and old man and still game, although not at his best.