View Full Version : Wilfred Benitez, completely underrated


young_robbed
02-20-2012, 05:23 PM
I was watching a few Benitez bouts today including his fights against Maurice Hope, Curry, and Chiaverini, to me he's one of the very underrated welterweights/super welterweights of all time. To think he was only 17 when he became champ is unbelievable.

One of his best performances must be against Maurice Hope, (a very strong and durable southpaw). After a few early rounds, Benitez was able to outwork Hope off of the ropes with strong counters. At times he was even able to load up on shots and simply wail away at Hope. Benitez's body work was very good also. In the 12th round he was able to knockout Hope with a single overhand right, great knockout IMO.

Against Chiaverini, Benitez started fast and was throwing some vicious combinations from round 1. Some Benitez's best work was off the ropes when he would make Chiaverini miss and counter him with a hook or right hand. Benitez really was punching sharply in this fight stopped Chiaverini in his tracks every time he was able to land. As usual Benitez rocked Chiaverini with hooks and uppercuts off the ropes and excellent combos. Benitez completely shut out Chiaverini, had Chiaverini came out for the 8th round Benitez would eventually stop him.

Overall this guy is rarely talked about, but overall he was an excellent fighter, he deserves more respect and needs to be looked at as a true ATG imo.

IronDanHamza
02-20-2012, 05:32 PM
He's a ATG, no doubt about that.

One of the best defensive fighters of all time.

Amazing fighter.

The_Demon
02-20-2012, 05:48 PM
Too become a world champion at 17 is incredible,Benitez was one of the best defensive fighters of all time,certainly an ATG for me

Barnburner
02-20-2012, 05:50 PM
Not only a champion at 17 but, gaining the belt against a legitimate world class fighter.

Awesome boxer.

What did you guys think of the Leonard stoppage, I thought it was unfair.

Sugarj
02-20-2012, 06:04 PM
Not only a champion at 17 but, gaining the belt against a legitimate world class fighter.

Awesome boxer.

What did you guys think of the Leonard stoppage, I thought it was unfair.


Agreed, he was awesome. So damned talented, but so hard to motivate at times.

If he'd have trained for Leonard he might even have beaten him!!! Never mind, even if the stoppage was a little dainty, he was behind on points due to sheer laziness.

Barnburner
02-20-2012, 06:19 PM
Agreed, he was awesome. So damned talented, but so hard to motivate at times.

If he'd have trained for Leonard he might even have beaten him!!! Never mind, even if the stoppage was a little dainty, he was behind on points due to sheer laziness.
Yeah. His Dad left his camp permanently for not training hard enough for one of his fights. :lol1:

young_robbed
02-20-2012, 07:41 PM
What did you guys think of the Leonard stoppage, I thought it was unfair.

Considering it was in the last round I agree, it was very unfair. Nonetheless, Benitez would've lost by points ANYWAY, but it was a bad stoppage imo.

If Benitez was in the fight point wise, the stoppage would've been more controversial and important like Chavez-Taylor.

Ziggy Stardust
02-20-2012, 07:45 PM
Great fighter. To be honest I always considered it to be the "Fab Five" including Benitez in there.

Poet

TBear
02-20-2012, 08:22 PM
Great fighter. To be honest I always considered it to be the "Fab Five" including Benitez in there.

Poet

Back in the day, "the Fab Four" was originally coined refering to Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Benitez. It wasn't til after Leonard & and Hearns fought Hagler that people started refering to Hagler as one of the fab four replacing Benitez.

Benitez was remarkable. His victory over Cervantes was not only an accomplishment due to his age but also that Cervantes was a very good fighter.

Ziggy Stardust
02-20-2012, 08:25 PM
Back in the day, "the Fab Four" was originally coined refering to Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Benitez. It wasn't til after Leonard & and Hearns fought Hagler that people started refering to Hagler as one of the fab four replacing Benitez.

Benitez was remarkable. His victory over Cervantes was not only an accomplishment due to his age but also that Cervantes was a very good fighter.

Cervantes was an ATG himself......not for nothing was he referred to as the "The Legendary Antonio Cervantes" while he was still an active fighter :)

Poet

bojangles1987
02-20-2012, 08:48 PM
Love watching Benitez, absolutely put him in there with Leonard, Hearns, and Duran from that time period.

Scott9945
02-20-2012, 10:35 PM
Not only a champion at 17 but, gaining the belt against a legitimate world class fighter.

Awesome boxer.

What did you guys think of the Leonard stoppage, I thought it was unfair.

There was no reason to stop that fight then other than to give Leonard a cheap KO win rather than a well deserved decision.

antk
02-21-2012, 07:48 AM
Great fighter but re Leonard stoppage he made no complaint.

young_robbed
02-21-2012, 11:37 AM
Benitez vs the welterweight and 154 greats? How do you guys see him doing?

(Mayweather jr, Robinson, Trinidad, Griffin, Napoles, Gavilian, Armstrong, Norris, Whitaker, etc.)

them_apples
02-21-2012, 01:11 PM
Too become a world champion at 17 is incredible,Benitez was one of the best defensive fighters of all time,certainly an ATG for me

yeah thats just insane. He hadn't even fully developed yet.

The_Demon
02-21-2012, 01:35 PM
yeah thats just insane. He hadn't even fully developed yet.

I just couldnt even imagine that happening nowadays,despite there being a ridiculous amount of 'world' titles given out like they mean nothing

them_apples
02-21-2012, 01:46 PM
There was no reason to stop that fight then other than to give Leonard a cheap KO win rather than a well deserved decision.

I need to rewatch that. I remember it being an ok stoppage but I'm not one to convince myself of something untrue. A lot of people do that on this forum.

joseph5620
02-21-2012, 02:19 PM
Considering it was in the last round I agree, it was very unfair. Nonetheless, Benitez would've lost by points ANYWAY, but it was a bad stoppage imo.
If Benitez was in the fight point wise, the stoppage would've been more controversial and important like Chavez-Taylor.









That pretty much sums it up. Bad stoppage but Benitez didn't seem unhappy about it so so I won't complain.

joseph5620
02-21-2012, 02:24 PM
I just couldnt even imagine that happening nowadays,despite there being a ridiculous amount of 'world' titles given out like they mean nothing

It was pretty amazing and I can't see it happening today either. Especially with the way certain fighters (much older than 17) today are protected even after picking up cheap "world titles".

ELHURACAN58
02-21-2012, 03:02 PM
If Benitez was in the body of a mature, intelligent adult, he'd be the best P4P boxer right now, of all time.

Cant be helped.

The Surgeon
02-21-2012, 03:08 PM
Been reading up on him lately and was actually gonna do a thread on him myself! One helluva fighter, imagine if he trained like a Mayweather instead of relying on his natural talent....

Sugarj
02-21-2012, 05:28 PM
Yeah. His Dad left his camp permanently for not training hard enough for one of his fights. :lol1:

I suppose you get this from time to time, guys with more talent than sense. Come to think of it, in terms of sheer raw talent its hard to think of many ATGs more naturally gifted.

So sad, his condition at the moment.....

Barnburner
02-21-2012, 05:34 PM
I suppose you get this from time to time, guys with more talent than sense. Come to think of it, in terms of sheer raw talent its hard to think of many ATGs more naturally gifted.

So sad, his condition at the moment.....
Real shame. :(

Ziggy Stardust
02-21-2012, 05:36 PM
Real shame. :(

And someone known for sponging punches like Chuvalo is perfectly lucid to this day.....go figure. Just goes to show that you never know who's at risk for dementia and who isn't.

Poet

Ray Corso
02-21-2012, 05:40 PM
He defeated a living legend at 17 yrs old!! Cervantez sp) was at the end of his reign but no one expected Wilfred to defeat him. As to being an ATG not on my list but a very talented young man. Another counter puncher who at times refused to fight when he had to so he could have a chance to take over a fight. He was a very stubborn man and his style hurt his box office appeal. To me hes on the fringe and his best weight was at 140lbs there he had a little more power to his punch too. Ray

Ziggy Stardust
02-21-2012, 05:47 PM
To me hes on the fringe and his best weight was at 140lbs there he had a little more power to his pinch too. Ray

Wilfred went around pinching peeps? :shock9:

Barnburner
02-21-2012, 05:51 PM
And someone known for sponging punches like Chuvalo is perfectly lucid to this day.....go figure. Just goes to show that you never know who's at risk for dementia and who isn't.

Poet
One that always surprised me was Basilio. He's reaching his 90's and in great shape as far as I'm aware.

IronDanHamza
02-21-2012, 06:03 PM
One that always surprised me was Basilio. He's reaching his 90's and in great shape as far as I'm aware.

Lamotta another one.

Who's not to great at the moment though apparently.

Barnburner
02-21-2012, 06:18 PM
Lamotta another one.

Who's not to great at the moment though apparently.
Not sure what to think on that one. He was a nasty piece of work in his younger days. Not that I wish ill health on anyone though.

Barnburner
02-21-2012, 06:20 PM
Its a high risk life style, but you don't need to box for twenty years to become a little dingy just look at poet682006 he/she talks all day long about topics he/she knows nothing about. Maybe being a forum contender has its draw backs.

I sent you a PM you lil turd and I'll leave it at that. I have no reason or desire to get into a pissing match with a nerd who think David Bowie is his idol!






Ray Corso is my real name I'll give you my address come visit and meet an old man who can give you some lessons about respect!! You lil punk!
:popcorn:

Sht's getting serious.

To be fair though. Poet never insulted you and just because he doesn't agree with you does not mean he is personally attacking you. Also David Bowie is a very good artist and two of his songs are in my Top 50 favourites.

Ziggy Stardust
02-21-2012, 06:36 PM
Here's the entire exchange:

I'm not sure why Leonard would even be mentioned as a middleweight. He was done by then and the only reason he did well enough in the Hagler fight was he waited those YEARS prior so Hagler fought a few more fights and at the end you have fights that are tuffer than they would be in your prime. Leonard was beaten up by Camacho, Camacho Really!!! That guy couldn't break an egg yet he beat Duran too, twice if I remember!!!! Let me tell you all something, nothing like a Camacho would ever come close to beating Sugarman, no way no how. As for Leonard in the welter division he could be a problem for Sugar man because of his speed of foot and hand. Speed is a problem when your looking to time someone weither its your punches to be thrown or theirs coming to you. I think Leonard could be a problem until Sugar boxed and pressured him for some rounds. If Leonard moved like he could the result might take longer to resolve, I do believe Sugar gets him but Leonard might sneak to the distance. You can't totally under estimate talent thats at a high level and Leonard was a supreme athlete.
Hagler vs Sugarman would be interesting the difference would be that Leonard did hit him fairly easily and I think Marvin gets hit with most of those shots even in his prime years. When Hagler gets hit often or hard he abandons his boxing skills and turns back his clock to Philly times. Thats when when Sugarmans chances gets better. Someone stalking Robinson and dropping their hands to punch usually get hit and Sugarman can hurt any fighter and if he gets you really timed your going out. LaMotta always said Sugar didn't drop him but he was walking around knocked out on his feet a few times. I love Marvin but when he looses his cool hes very predictable he learned tuff lessons from another name stealer known as Sugar but Seals could fight and Marvin went back and got even with Ray. Theres a fighter I never hear mentioned here. Seals was good, and a big time crowd pleaser.
If Leonard had the guts he could have faced Marvin years before all the "oldies" bouts took place but he knew better. Let the guy fight some more maybe loose a step or two or three and thats what happened. Sugarman rules, theres a reason boxing historians think he is the number one boxer/puncher of all time. Look at his accomplishments, who he fought, when he fought, how often he fought, ducked NO one, gave return mastches ALWAYS. Fought an animal like Lamotta 5 times!!! Ali was great but not the Greatest, that was Sugar Ray there should be no reason to say his last name but so many think if its before their time its not reality. HA! Boxing has evolved but greatness doesn't come around very often, especially when it last 20 years and hundreds of fights. Remember 100 & 0 before a defeat!!! Only one man..the real Sugar Ray.

To which I responded with:

I'd point out that at the end of HIS career, when he was washed up, Ray Robinson was losing to the likes of 55-16 Stan Harrington. When a fighter fights long past his prime losses like that happen. To ANY fighter. Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, and yes, Ray Robinson.

^^^^^ I have no idea how that could possibly be taken for anything other than a fair point.

......the likes of Stan Harrington!!!as if hes a bum, are you kiddiing me or you just don't know what the hell your talking about. Harrington was a top flight fighter for ten years straight, he beat and lost to ALL the top fighters back then. The guy was tuff as hell and had NO fear who he fought and fought ALL the best. Being 55 & 16 or what ever the hell his record was means nothing back then. Only today does a guy need to be undefeated or have 2 or 3 looses or hes a bust. These kids today fight twice a year once there records are built up fighting "dead people" !!! Take away HBO and years ago closed circuit and try fighting on a "live circuit" then you'll see real fighters fighting hard in every second of every round.
Heres the thing Mr. Poet, Sugar Ray was fighting "young up and coming guys not old guys like Leonard did. Sugar Ray fought top contenders not pretenders. To disgrace a man like Harrington tells me everything I need to know about your knowledge of boxing from that era. Go look at his record, the guy was a pro fighting a pro circuit his wins and looses were against some pretty well known fighters. Well their known by people who know boxing anyways. Obviously not you.

^^^^^ However, he responded with this insulting post.

The point is, Harrington was a fringe contender and a fighter a prime Ray Robinson would NEVER have lost to. Yet you criticise Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran for losing well past their primes to Hector Camacho, who, like it or not, was a top fighter at the time. Camacho was 62-3 at the time and six months away from a shot at De La Hoya's Welterweight crown.

The bottom-line is washed-up fighters lose to guys they never would have lost to in the primes. They ALL do if they hang around long enough. It happens, regardless of how good you were in your prime. You can't excuse it in one instance and slam someone for it in another.

^^^^^ Still keeping my cool I make another fair point along the same lines.

Hees the main point about these types of fights, Harrington took a punch into the fight with him. guys who can punch don't loose that ability so their chances are more realistic even when their other skills eroid. Guys like Camacho never could punch it makes them atleast a "safe" opponent and if you think that Harrington was an easier fight then a Camacho you really have never been there. Any fighter will tell you they'll face the boxer over the guy that can punch. Being bewildered in a match beats they hell out of being "hurt"! I doubt you knew who Harrington was before I mentioned him. I met the guy and your telling me something about a guy I met and who fought a good friend of my families. I met Ray Leonard on a number of occasions, he trained in my gym for his 4th or 5th fight. Your talking about fighters as if you know them and you don't I did and I boxed and I trained and I managed and your a fan! Why not listen and learn, are you one of those guys who goes under your car with the mechanic and talks to him while hes working? I bet you are. Everyone has an opinion its like an A..H..! Butt whats it based on, facts and actually knowledge or reading and watching a video?

^^^^^ But he continues with his insults.

When I want to know about how a car works I'll go ask the engineer who designed it not the grease monkey under the hood.

^^^^^ NOW I finally get snippy in response.

Your comment is ridiculous, your talking to someone who has done ALL the tasks in boxing from throwing and taking to promoting and managing to training. Whats your experience? Talking on a forum about other peoples lives and how they earned their livelyhood? Trainers are designers, if you ever were into boxing you'd know that. To be relavant means something, you seem to think that your pretty knowledgable. Tell me who have you trained? Who have you fought? What boxing arenas have you appeared in as a fighter or trainer? What gym do you own and who are you affiliated with? Tell us.

Ziggy Stardust
02-21-2012, 06:50 PM
David Bowie is a very good artist and two of his songs are in my Top 50 favourites.

Which two if I may ask? :thinking9:

Barnburner
02-21-2012, 06:51 PM
Which two if I may ask? :thinking9:
Life on Mars and Space Oddity. Pretty mainstream choices I must admit.

Ziggy Stardust
02-21-2012, 06:52 PM
Life on Mars and Space Oddity. Pretty mainstream choices I must admit.

Ah! Cool! "Life On Mars?" hardly gets any airplay here in the states but it's an unsung masterpiece :grin9:

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
02-21-2012, 06:53 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/v--IqqusnNQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Barnburner
02-21-2012, 07:02 PM
Ah! Cool! "Life On Mars?" hardly gets any airplay here in the states but it's an unsung masterpiece :grin9:

Poet
It's on quite a bit on the low key stations over here.

It's the freakiest show!

Barnburner
02-21-2012, 07:05 PM
As everyone can see your more intune to fashions and music from the theatre, hence the reality of yaking about a sport you know NOTHING about. The only gloves you've ever had on are your mittens to shovel the snow and all the crap you write down here. As far as a Charade thats you sonny I can baxck up anything I've said here, wheres as you people say NOTHING your all about an opinion and NO actual experiences. Atleast your grouped together so that the fat is coming from one direction, lossers! Ray


nite girls!
Actually I've had a number of amateur fights and spar 3 times a week.

Good try though, I'll give you the A for effort.

I can back up anything I've said here too...

Barnburner
02-21-2012, 07:14 PM
wow three whole ones a week, did you go the distance or faint when the bell rang? Listen barnburner your a nice kid most post but if you want associate with a guy who actually signs his posts and pm's as poet, go ahead! The bottom line is that Poet, don't Know it! The kids a clown. Nite now.
Yeah three whole ones! It was incredible I managed it last week.

I've never been down in a spar or amateur contest. Not that it means much just thought I'd let you know. However the referee did stop one of my contests after I broke my wrist but, fought on anyway and took a beating for the next minute and a half.

I've never had a problem with Poet and the fact you do isn't going to influence any opinion I have.

Barnburner
02-21-2012, 07:24 PM
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QYEC4TZsy-Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ziggy Stardust
02-21-2012, 07:24 PM
It's on quite a bit on the low key stations over here.

It's the freakiest show!

"But the film is a saddening bore, cuz I've wrote it ten times or more, it's about to be writ again....."

Barnburner
02-21-2012, 07:24 PM
it is clearly past your bedtime.
It's getting past mine too.

New England
02-21-2012, 08:03 PM
It's getting past mine too.



<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HRD0ghlFSgk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


new england speed


in the club. game face on.

Scott9945
02-21-2012, 09:59 PM
Its a high risk life style, but you don't need to box for twenty years to become a little dingy just look at poet682006 he/she talks all day long about topics he/she knows nothing about. Maybe being a forum contender has its draw backs.

I sent you a PM you lil turd and I'll leave it at that. I have no reason or desire to get into a pissing match with a nerd who think David Bowie is his idol!






Ray Corso is my real name I'll give you my address come visit and meet an old man who can give you some lessons about respect!! You lil punk!


I Googled your name and came up with nothing. True story. You could say the same about me, but the difference is that I'm not acting like I'm a living legend in the boxing world.

Just make your points and don't take everything so damn personally.

young_robbed
02-22-2012, 12:26 AM
Way to hijack my threads you jerks. seriously. i don't care about the boxing scene drama. let it be

JAB5239
02-22-2012, 02:02 AM
Im with this.Way to hijack my threads you jerks. seriously. i don't care about the boxing scene drama. let it be

I'm favoring this. Play nice gentlemen or don't play at all. If you guys want this to turn into NSB that's fine. But I think we have all already agreed we don't want that. Please give it a rest.

joseph5620
02-22-2012, 12:28 PM
I Googled your name and came up with nothing. True story. You could say the same about me, but the difference is that I'm not acting like I'm a living legend in the boxing world.

Just make your points and don't take everything so damn personally.

:lol1::lol1:

Capaedia
02-22-2012, 05:22 PM
So yeah, Benitez
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/image.php?u=117664&dateline=1325723346

ATG swag

EDIT: Also his staredowns were great. I think it was making Sugar Ray angry how Benitez was just looking down on him as if he weren't ****.

New England
02-22-2012, 05:36 PM
terrific vision

underrated puncher

and it's already been said, in his prime he was one of the most elusive fighters ever. fought a bevy of great offensive fighters and slipped lots of punches.

rough match h2h at 3 weight classes as well (140, 47, 54)
not many can say that.

Starof David
02-24-2012, 11:59 AM
I thought Benitez, who was a great fighter, moved up one too many weight classes.

young_robbed
02-24-2012, 02:52 PM
Benitez vs the welterweight and 154 greats? How do you guys see him doing?

(Mayweather jr, Robinson, Trinidad, Griffin, Napoles, Gavilian, Armstrong, Norris, Whitaker, etc.)

:nonono:

http://georgianbaysportsfan.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/no-answer-6112b-image-e-w.jpg

young_robbed
02-24-2012, 03:02 PM
EDIT: Also his staredowns were great. I think it was making Sugar Ray angry how Benitez was just looking down on him as if he weren't ****.

That was hilarious :D. That's a great fight to watch btw from a technical stand point. Gonna watch and score it right now.

young_robbed
02-24-2012, 03:03 PM
:nonono:

http://georgianbaysportsfan.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/no-answer-6112b-image-e-w.jpg

:cop::cop:

The Surgeon
02-24-2012, 03:59 PM
That was hilarious :D. That's a great fight to watch btw from a technical stand point. Gonna watch and score it right now.

Post ur card Robbed, im gonna do the same mate

young_robbed
02-24-2012, 10:54 PM
Post ur card Robbed, im gonna do the same mate

I'll have to do it later, I stopped watching after round 2. Had to do something else.

Barnburner
02-25-2012, 08:55 AM
When I scored it I had Leonard up by 4 or so points.

young_robbed
02-25-2012, 12:00 PM
Benitez vs the welterweight and 154 greats? How do you guys see him doing?

(Mayweather jr, Robinson, Trinidad, Griffin, Napoles, Gavilian, Armstrong, Norris, Whitaker, etc.)

Anyone feel like weighing in on this?

Barnburner
02-25-2012, 12:35 PM
Anyone feel like weighing in on this?
Problem with a lot of them is the match-ups are very close.

I think he would lose in a close fight to Robinson, possibly Armstrong.

Griffith, Gavilan and Napoles etc would be skillful battles for the purists and I really don't want to call any of these match-ups.

I'd not count Benitez out of any given match-up when he was on his best day.

Barnburner
02-25-2012, 12:37 PM
That was hilarious :D. That's a great fight to watch btw from a technical stand point. Gonna watch and score it right now.
The Maurice Hope staredown is strange as well when he pushes him. Really trying to psyche him out and from Hope's face as he went to his corner to start the bout it seemed to have worked.

young_robbed
02-25-2012, 12:51 PM
Problem with a lot of them is the match-ups are very close.

I think he would lose in a close fight to Robinson, possibly Armstrong.

Griffith, Gavilan and Napoles etc would be skillful battles for the purists and I really don't want to call any of these match-ups.

I'd not count Benitez out of any given match-up when he was on his best day.

Norris and Trinidad I feel he could outbox. Norris would've been stopped late imo.

Barnburner
02-25-2012, 01:02 PM
Norris and Trinidad I feel he could outbox. Norris would've been stopped late imo.
Yeah I can see that. Also I feel at Welterweight the odds are in his favour against Pernell and Mayweather. Although I would by no means swear by it.

Scott9945
02-25-2012, 09:42 PM
Anyone feel like weighing in on this?

The only ones that I'd give Benitez a chance against at 154 would be Napoles, Whitaker, and Armstrong because they weren't legit junior middles. I rate Benitez much higher at 140 and 147. Of course the three that I mentioned would be much more dangerous at those weights too.

young_robbed
02-26-2012, 11:27 AM
The only ones that I'd give Benitez a chance against at 154 would be Napoles, Whitaker, and Armstrong because they weren't legit junior middles. I rate Benitez much higher at 140 and 147. Of course the three that I mentioned would be much more dangerous at those weights too.

You don't think he could potentially take Norris or Trinidad?

Scott9945
02-26-2012, 08:53 PM
You don't think he could potentially take Norris or Trinidad?

I'm not saying he wouldn't have a chance. Just that I wouldn't pick him, especially against Terry Norris. I can't ignore that Trinidad was vulnerable to a boxer with the skill level of Benitez.