View Full Version : Who were the best mind gamers in history?


Tiozzo
02-17-2012, 11:02 AM
I'm not talking about what a fighter would pull off during the build-up of a fight. I'm talking about mind games being played inside the ring.

There are some obvious choices:

Ali

Jack Johnson

Hamed

Leonard

Leonard wasn't really a talker inside the ropes. He would do other stuff to upset his opponents and gain an advantage. The Hagler fight is perhaps the best example : Leonard would taunt, clown, even put his hands in Hagler's face everytime he had a chance, when the ref would break them up.

It was really getting to Hagler, who perhaps would have fought a more paced and disciplined fight instead of getting angry, which Leonard expected.


List your best mind gamers, what they did and how it worked for them.

oc9979
02-17-2012, 11:03 AM
Bernard Hopkins

Tiozzo
02-17-2012, 11:05 AM
Bernard Hopkins

somebody has not read my first post :nonono:

Hopkins didn't play much mind games inside the ring until recently

oc9979
02-17-2012, 11:07 AM
somebody has not read my first post :nonono:

Didn't you see the Hopkins vs Pascal fight?

Barn
02-17-2012, 11:19 AM
Duran.

From staring at Hagler during running and giving Leonard's wife abuse. Sitting on Davey Moore's stool at the end of a round and tapping his chin or sneering in fights. He was good inside and outside the ring.

New England
02-17-2012, 11:27 AM
ummm


chisora?

http://www.boxingscene.com/uploads/49671/chisora-slaps-klitschko-weigh-in%20(2).jpg

http://www.fr-online.de/image/view/2012/1/17/11655468,9488935,highRes,1329487112.jpg.jpg

he might be the worst of all time
i hope he's got insurance


dont poke the bear

Barn
02-17-2012, 11:28 AM
ummm


chisora?

http://www.boxingscene.com/uploads/49671/chisora-slaps-klitschko-weigh-in%20(2).jpg

http://www.fr-online.de/image/view/2012/1/17/11655468,9488935,highRes,1329487112.jpg.jpg

he might be the worst of all time
i hope he's got insurance


dont poke the bear
pic legitimately looks like chisora's **** in vitali's face.

Barn
02-17-2012, 11:31 AM
ummm


chisora?

http://www.boxingscene.com/uploads/49671/chisora-slaps-klitschko-weigh-in%20(2).jpg

http://www.fr-online.de/image/view/2012/1/17/11655468,9488935,highRes,1329487112.jpg.jpg

he might be the worst of all time
i hope he's got insurance


dont poke the bear
"What can you expect from a guy who hits his girlfriend?" he said. "I'm glad he has agreed to fight a man again.

I love Vitali's choice of words. He's class.

bojangles1987
02-17-2012, 04:51 PM
I love how Chisora is looking down, so he keeps the courage to actually smack him. He knew if he looked at Vitali as he smacked him he would have sh** his pants.

As to the question, Ali.

El Pistolero
02-17-2012, 05:07 PM
Roy Jones to some extent. All that hands-dropping, taunts, sticking out his tongue etc. paid off during this fights in his prime.

Barn
02-17-2012, 05:11 PM
Just watched Spinks vs Braxton.

Qawi laughed when hit. Laughed when cornered, stuck his tongue out when hurt. Danced when he had his opponent hurt. Jokes all round. Awesome fighter as well.

Tiozzo
02-17-2012, 05:28 PM
Just watched Spinks vs Braxton.

Qawi laughed when hit. Laughed when cornered, stuck his tongue out when hurt. Danced when he had his opponent hurt. Jokes all round. Awesome fighter as well.

Qawi had a habit of laughing at his opponent, even when he was the one getting hammered. But he really made Spinks look amateurish.

Barn
02-17-2012, 05:47 PM
Qawi had a habit of laughing at his opponent, even when he was the one getting hammered. But he really made Spinks look amateurish.
He did do well. I wouldn't go as far as "amateurish". Spinks still did very well landing great combos. Didn't like his running in portions though.

Young Money
02-17-2012, 06:23 PM
Benny Leonard


From an article by Mike Casey

"[He] studied human behaviour and how quickly the brain of an opponent could be scrambled and gridlocked. Leonard would give his foes a little tap on the shoulder at appropriate moments to disorientate them. An old trick, yes, but a boxer of Leonard***8217;s quality could amplify its effectiveness no end."


An excerpt from a Monte D. Cox article

"Ray Arcel, one of the greatest trainers of all time, concurs on Leonard***8217;s ability to out-think his opponent***8217;s, Peter Heller's In The Corner, ***8220;Boxing is brains over brawn. I don***8217;t care how much ability you got, if you can***8217;t think your just another bum in the park. People ask me who***8217;s the greatest boxer I ever saw pound for pound. I hesitate to say, either Benny Leonard or Ray Robinson. But Leonard***8217;s mental energy surpassed anyone else***8217;s."

"Budd Schulberg described what transpired in the next round as Mitchell attacked Benny who was still hurt and on his bicycle. ***8220;As he retreated his was talking to Mitchell (shades of Ali a half century later!), ***8220;Is that the best you can do? I thought you hit harder than that? I***8217;ll put my hands down, what do you want to bet you can***8217;t hit me? Come on if you think you got me hurt, why don***8217;t you fight? You look awful slow to me Richie***8221;. Mitchell swung wildly missing and began to wear down by rounds end. In the fifth Leonard was up on his toes snapping Mitchell***8217;s head back with left jabs and right crosses."


From TIME Magazine article - Sport: Benny the Brain

"Leonard fought with his head. His most famed rival, Lew Tendler, claimed that Leonard had talked him out of the title by whispering disconcerting things between punches. Leonard's version: "He caught me over the eye with a left and I felt my knees going under me. I said, That was a good punch, Lew.' I said it in a friendly, matter-of-fact tone of voice and it put the fight on a different plane. Lew snarled, 'Never mind that stuff, come on and fight.' But I stuck out a restraining hand and said, 'No, Lew. That was really a good punch. It was all right.' Lew paused again, and by that time I had recovered my senses."

Before Leonard's fight with Richie Mitchell, the referee explained the then-new rule that after scoring a knockdown, a boxer must go to a neutral corner. Leonard suddenly registered perplexity. "Let me get this straight," he said. "As I understand it, every time I knock him down I'm to go to a neutral corner." Mitchell looked nervous. Leonard knocked him out in the sixth round after Mitchell knocked Leonard down in the first round"

CarlosG815
02-17-2012, 06:25 PM
Mike Tyson was one of the greatest psychological scientists when in the ring in many ways.

His boxing IQ inside the ring was off the charts. Psychologically he was a genius in the sport when inside the ring.

In his prime of course.

Tiozzo
02-17-2012, 06:33 PM
Benny Leonard


From an article by Mike Casey

"[He] studied human behaviour and how quickly the brain of an opponent could be scrambled and gridlocked. Leonard would give his foes a little tap on the shoulder at appropriate moments to disorientate them. An old trick, yes, but a boxer of Leonardís quality could amplify its effectiveness no end."


An excerpt from a Monte D. Cox article

"Ray Arcel, one of the greatest trainers of all time, concurs on Leonardís ability to out-think his opponentís, Peter Heller's In The Corner, ďBoxing is brains over brawn. I donít care how much ability you got, if you canít think your just another bum in the park. People ask me whoís the greatest boxer I ever saw pound for pound. I hesitate to say, either Benny Leonard or Ray Robinson. But Leonardís mental energy surpassed anyone elseís."

"Budd Schulberg described what transpired in the next round as Mitchell attacked Benny who was still hurt and on his bicycle. ďAs he retreated his was talking to Mitchell (shades of Ali a half century later!), ďIs that the best you can do? I thought you hit harder than that? Iíll put my hands down, what do you want to bet you canít hit me? Come on if you think you got me hurt, why donít you fight? You look awful slow to me RichieĒ. Mitchell swung wildly missing and began to wear down by rounds end. In the fifth Leonard was up on his toes snapping Mitchellís head back with left jabs and right crosses."


From TIME Magazine article - Sport: Benny the Brain

"Leonard fought with his head. His most famed rival, Lew Tendler, claimed that Leonard had talked him out of the title by whispering disconcerting things between punches. Leonard's version: "He caught me over the eye with a left and I felt my knees going under me. I said, That was a good punch, Lew.' I said it in a friendly, matter-of-fact tone of voice and it put the fight on a different plane. Lew snarled, 'Never mind that stuff, come on and fight.' But I stuck out a restraining hand and said, 'No, Lew. That was really a good punch. It was all right.' Lew paused again, and by that time I had recovered my senses."

Before Leonard's fight with Richie Mitchell, the referee explained the then-new rule that after scoring a knockdown, a boxer must go to a neutral corner. Leonard suddenly registered perplexity. "Let me get this straight," he said. "As I understand it, every time I knock him down I'm to go to a neutral corner." Mitchell looked nervous. Leonard knocked him out in the sixth round after Mitchell knocked Leonard down in the first round"

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

good post

Tiozzo
02-17-2012, 06:35 PM
Mike Tyson was one of the greatest psychological scientists when in the ring in many ways.

His boxing IQ inside the ring was off the charts. Psychologically he was a genius in the sport when inside the ring.

In his prime of course.

what kind of mind games did he play ? his fearsome presence put aside, I don't think he was playing mind games

CarlosG815
02-17-2012, 07:19 PM
what kind of mind games did he play ? his fearsome presence put aside, I don't think he was playing mind games

I disagree.

Tiozzo
02-17-2012, 07:21 PM
I disagree.

it's ok to disagree, but you have to say why

so what did he do ?

New England
02-17-2012, 07:42 PM
muhammad ali

freddie roach

mike tyson

david haye (more of a con man than anything else. he pulls one over on the fans. the headless klitschko brothers T shirt was classic.)

aaron pryor had some great in ring antics / mind games as well
if he got dropped he'd bounce back up instead of taking a seven or 8 count.
he pointed // stared guys down
and the way he fought would make guys fold (though that had a lot more to do with work rate and stamina than mind games in many cases.
just a defiant dude.


and sonny liston had eyes like a shark
scary dude

Starof David
02-17-2012, 07:46 PM
Ali was a good choice, "you can't hurt me George"

Capaedia
02-17-2012, 09:07 PM
Hopkins didn't play much mind games inside the ring until recently

So?

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/Alakasam_2008/Boxing%20Librarium/Hopkins.gif

IronDanHamza
02-17-2012, 09:14 PM
Joe Louis.

CarlosG815
02-17-2012, 10:16 PM
it's ok to disagree, but you have to say why

so what did he do ?

Well I can't recap Mike Tyson's career for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xsfjxVXoEo

The Surgeon
02-18-2012, 04:13 AM
Ali for the number one spot hands down


Ricardo Mayorga played some crazy mind games too letting guys tag him clean then roaring back ect

IronDanHamza
02-18-2012, 09:17 AM
could you elaborate? im not familiar with joe's mind games, beyone his cold piercing stare.

SRL, ali, roy jones, duran. interesting to note benny leonard, i was not aware he did those things. mike tyson. i think floyd mayweather is pretty good at mind games.

by the way, anyone know who mikes fighting, when he snarls in the video from 0:34-0:38? cheers.

You said it, that cold piercing, emotionless stare.

The look of no remorse.

Would certainly frighten me.

The Surgeon
02-18-2012, 10:43 AM
You said it, that cold piercing, emotionless stare.

The look of no remorse.

Would certainly frighten me.

Also having such a great poker face meant u never knew if he was hurt or not

New England
02-18-2012, 10:55 AM
Also having such a great poker face meant u never knew if he was hurt or not



or where and when he was going to punch

The Surgeon
02-18-2012, 11:18 AM
or where and when he was going to punch

Exactly. The only thing that was a given was that when he did it was going to ****ing Hurt!

Tiozzo
02-18-2012, 01:31 PM
muhammad ali

freddie roach

mike tyson

david haye (more of a con man than anything else. he pulls one over on the fans. the headless klitschko brothers T shirt was classic.)

aaron pryor had some great in ring antics / mind games as well
if he got dropped he'd bounce back up instead of taking a seven or 8 count.
he pointed // stared guys down
and the way he fought would make guys fold (though that had a lot more to do with work rate and stamina than mind games in many cases.
just a defiant dude.


and sonny liston had eyes like a shark
scary dude

good pick

definitely one of the best

he just refused to show any weakness whatsoever

Tiozzo
02-18-2012, 01:38 PM
Well I can't recap Mike Tyson's career for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xsfjxVXoEo

that's what I was saying

intimidation/reputation factors, but he didn't really play mind games once the bell rang

Unknown Champ
02-18-2012, 02:27 PM
Jeff LAcy is king!!!

Dubbed90
02-21-2012, 08:45 AM
that's what I was saying

intimidation/reputation factors, but he didn't really play mind games once the bell rang

Did he really need to, though? lol

Young Money
02-21-2012, 07:54 PM
Did he really need to, though? lol

It's not really the point of the thread though.

Rockin'
02-21-2012, 07:58 PM
I still like how Livingstone Bramble played it up with Ray Mancini. Rasta man complete with witch doctor..........Rockin':boxing:

ellobo
02-23-2012, 12:20 AM
Another vote for ALI he was truly the master at that stuff.

[I just read The Fight by Norman Mailer, I learned a lot about Ali. He was crazy smart about people. A good read, I highly recommend.]

Mike Tyson77
02-23-2012, 01:55 AM
Jack Johnson

Ali

Daddy T
02-23-2012, 05:18 AM
Mike Tyson was one of the greatest psychological scientists when in the ring in many ways.

His boxing IQ inside the ring was off the charts. Psychologically he was a genius in the sport when inside the ring.

In his prime of course.

So much of that was down to kevin rooney, when he fought, tyson and rooney were almost like one man. Biggest mistake mike ever made was splitting from rooney, nobody understood him or knew how to get the best out of him like rooney did.

SCtrojansbaby
02-24-2012, 03:11 AM
Bernard Hopkins