View Full Version : List some fights involving 2 prime ATG's


them_apples
02-09-2012, 07:18 PM
They are Rare.

near prime or prime will be the same thing other wise no fight will count and arguments will take place.

SRL vs Hagler

Pacquiao vs Barrera

SRL vs Benitez

SRL vs Hearns (can't think of a better one than this)

DLH vs Trinidad

Duran vs SRL

DLH vs Mosley 1

Chavez vs Whitaker

Foreman vs Frazier (Frazier still had the title, but was he prime?)

Let's hear some more

also Ali vs Frazier 1...Ali was pretty close to prime, regardless what the historians say, Frazier was prime as a prime rib. If we go by his career before his retirement, I think he was less experienced but had better leg's. Ali was hurt and dropped in his youth and kept his hand down all the time...

legs vs experience?? who knows

RubenSonny
02-09-2012, 07:37 PM
They are Rare.

near prime or prime will be the same thing other wise no fight will count and arguments will take place.

SRL vs Hagler

Pacquiao vs Barrera

SRL vs Benitez

SRL vs Hearns (can't think of a better one than this)

DLH vs Trinidad

Duran vs SRL

DLH vs Mosley 1

Chavez vs Whitaker

Foreman vs Frazier (Frazier still had the title, but was he prime?)

Let's hear some more

also Ali vs Frazier 1...Ali was pretty close to prime, regardless what the historians say, Frazier was prime as a prime rib. If we go by his career before his retirement, I think he was less experienced but had better leg's. Ali was hurt and dropped in his youth and kept his hand down all the time...

legs vs experience?? who knows

He had 2 fights against Bonavena and Quarry, I don't know how much experience he gained there.

talip bin osman
02-09-2012, 07:39 PM
the 3 fights of barrera and morales...

jones - toney

gomez - sanchez

pintor - zarate

NChristo
02-09-2012, 07:40 PM
They are Rare.

near prime or prime will be the same thing other wise no fight will count and arguments will take place.

SRL vs Hagler
SRL vs Hagler
SRL vs Hagler
SRL vs Hagler
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1591301401/Jackie-Chan-Meme.jpg
Rest are good picks but neither SRL or Hagler were prime, hell SRL just came of a long long lay off and eye surgery.

Ray Robinson vs Kid Gavilan
Wilfredo Gomez vs Carlos Zarate
Emile Griffith vs Luis Manuel Rodriguez

Barn
02-09-2012, 07:41 PM
SRL Hagler?

Duran - Leonard.
Robinson - LaMotta.
Robinson - Gavilan
Greb - Walker
Charles - Moore
Langford - Ketchel
Langford - Walcott

New England
02-09-2012, 07:44 PM
They are Rare.

near prime or prime will be the same thing other wise no fight will count and arguments will take place.

SRL vs Hagler

Pacquiao vs Barrera

SRL vs Benitez

SRL vs Hearns (can't think of a better one than this)

DLH vs Trinidad

Duran vs SRL

DLH vs Mosley 1

Chavez vs Whitaker

Foreman vs Frazier (Frazier still had the title, but was he prime?)

Let's hear some more

also Ali vs Frazier 1...Ali was pretty close to prime, regardless what the historians say, Frazier was prime as a prime rib. If we go by his career before his retirement, I think he was less experienced but had better leg's. Ali was hurt and dropped in his youth and kept his hand down all the time...

legs vs experience?? who knows


greb and tunney's gotta be up there

greb and flowers

greb and walker

did i mention that harry greb might be best to ever box?

pacquiao and marquez (marquez beat pacquiao in their third fight at WW. i'll be damned if he's not an ATG himself)


gomez and sanchez

gomez and zarate


these are fun
like you said, apples
"XXX was not prime" is going to be bandied about frequently

Barn
02-09-2012, 07:47 PM
greb and tunney's gotta be up there

greb and flowers

greb and walker

did i mention that harry greb might be best to ever box?

pacquiao and marquez (marquez beat pacquiao in their third fight at WW. i'll be damned if he's not an ATG himself)


gomez and sanchez

gomez and zarate
Greb was getting on a bit by the time he beat Flowers to be fair.

New England
02-09-2012, 08:00 PM
Greb was getting on a bit by the time he beat Flowers to be fair.



lol well a couple hundred fights might do that to you, homeboy

he did have some good W's after the first flowers fight, though

Barn
02-09-2012, 08:15 PM
lol well a couple hundred fights might do that to you, homeboy

he did have some good W's after the first flowers fight, though
At least one of the Flowers decision's was horse**** if I remember rightly.

( a bit like blackpool lol?)

New England
02-09-2012, 08:25 PM
At least one of the Flowers decision's was horse**** if I remember rightly.

( a bit like blackpool lol?)


if i had the film i'd be a cult boxing hero



edit :
o man i see some **** getting talked about blackpool in there

where's christo. its on

Barn
02-09-2012, 08:27 PM
if i had the film i'd be a cult boxing hero



edit :
o man i see some **** getting talked about blackpool in there

where's christo. its on
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11765709#post11765709

sit back and enjoy guys?

BigStereotype
02-09-2012, 08:47 PM
if i had the film i'd be a cult boxing hero



edit :
o man i see some **** getting talked about blackpool in there

where's christo. its on

It's out there. We finally got a pic of a live giant squid, we'll find Greb. I know we will.

Barn
02-09-2012, 08:54 PM
Barnburner vs NChristo.

oh wait, christo is just a prospect. my bad guys.

New England
02-09-2012, 09:20 PM
Barnburner vs NChristo.

oh wait, christo is just a prospect. my bad guys.




i heard he was -250


i'll be putting down a few quid



to address the OP,
it really is amazing to see how few prime ATG's have fought each other.


of course, one has to lose, and it hurts the legacy

maybe some of these guys they beat could have been greats if they didnt run into better ones

DarkTerror88
02-09-2012, 09:22 PM
Barnburner vs NChristo.

oh wait, christo is just a prospect. my bad guys.

DING DING DING. LETS GET RRRRRRRRRRRRREEADYY TO RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUMMMMBBBLLLEEE!!!!! :boxing::boxing:

NChristo
02-09-2012, 09:36 PM
Think I've got him on wobbly legs.

Back On Topic:

Joe Walcott vs Sam Langford ?
Holman Williams vs Charley Burley

them_apples
02-09-2012, 11:54 PM
He had 2 fights against Bonavena and Quarry, I don't know how much experience he gained there.

yeah but he had quite a few years, he was sparring and boxing the entire time I heard...

He noticably changed the style of his punches too. Less Robinson style hooks and straighter jabs and crosses.

EDIT: come to think of it however, his later fights before his comeback it was basically the Ali we know + cassius Legs. So I could be wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qQFGk2w6fU Ali was already losing his dance once his body grew and his bones got thicker. His chin improved though.

The Ali that danced for 12 rounds was 210 lbs and inexperienced to say the least.

Barn
02-10-2012, 02:58 AM
Think I've got him on wobbly legs.

Back On Topic:

Joe Walcott vs Sam Langford ?
Holman Williams vs Charley Burley
you ain't done ****! you hit like a woman oh wait i mean a blackpudlian male.

Sugarj
02-10-2012, 07:19 PM
They are Rare.

near prime or prime will be the same thing other wise no fight will count and arguments will take place.

SRL vs Hagler

Pacquiao vs Barrera

SRL vs Benitez

SRL vs Hearns (can't think of a better one than this)

DLH vs Trinidad

Duran vs SRL

DLH vs Mosley 1

Chavez vs Whitaker

Foreman vs Frazier (Frazier still had the title, but was he prime?)

Let's hear some more

also Ali vs Frazier 1...Ali was pretty close to prime, regardless what the historians say, Frazier was prime as a prime rib. If we go by his career before his retirement, I think he was less experienced but had better leg's. Ali was hurt and dropped in his youth and kept his hand down all the time...

legs vs experience?? who knows


I wouldn't say that leonard or Hagler were prime when they met.....and Barrera was a little ring worn when he met Pac even first time round. But nice list.

As for Ali vs Frazier 1. I do think Ali actually improved from 1971 up till 1974. So I do tend to think of 1971 Ali as a little rusty......and yes, he hadn't got his legs back.

And Foreman vs Frazier 1. Frazier was also ring rusty having fought only twice in two years......a touch overweight too.

I'd add Robinson vs LaMotta, Bowe vs Holyfield 1 (Though its debatable as to whether Bowe is an ATG, H2H I think he is).

Hearns vs Hagler was pretty close in terms of primes.

Jones vs Toney was on paper a superb match of genuine pound for pound ATGs at the peak of their powers.

Ray Corso
02-10-2012, 07:29 PM
Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling
Bassillo vs Sugarman
Fullmer vs Sugarman
Turpin vs Sugarman
Pep vs Sadler
Charles vs Walcott
Tunney vs Dempsey
just a few..................one of the best match ups ever was Holmes vs Norton, tremendous battle! Ray Corso

Barn
02-10-2012, 08:08 PM
Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling
Bassillo vs Sugarman
Fullmer vs Sugarman
Turpin vs Sugarman
Pep vs Sadler
Charles vs Walcott
Tunney vs Dempsey
just a few..................one of the best match ups ever was Holmes vs Norton, tremendous battle! Ray Corso
How can Sugar be in prime for those fights when he was a whole weight class above his optimum weight?

Saddler matches for Pep were after the plane crash.

Charles was at HW for Walcott, again not prime.

Dempsey was definitely past it for both Tunney matches.

them_apples
02-10-2012, 08:33 PM
Ali vs Chuvalo 1 is as prime as he get's IMO. Decent opponent, Ali is experienced, and hasn't lost anything from the layoff. He can still move on his feet when he needs to, has amazing accuracy and hand speed.

I definitely recant my original statement. That was NOT a prime Ali in Frazier 1, but it was a good version.

Mannie Phresh
02-10-2012, 08:36 PM
couldnt agree more on leonard hearns

C.Y.
02-11-2012, 12:34 AM
SRL and Hagler?? i dont think so..

Hearns-SRL

Morales-Barerra

Jones-Toney - although Toney had weight issues

Mayweather-Corrales

Oscar-Trinidad

Mosley-Oscar

but then some of the guys I listed aren't atg's

them_apples
02-11-2012, 04:36 AM
Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling
Bassillo vs Sugarman
Fullmer vs Sugarman
Turpin vs Sugarman
Pep vs Sadler
Charles vs Walcott
Tunney vs Dempsey
just a few..................one of the best match ups ever was Holmes vs Norton, tremendous battle! Ray Corso

Dempsey wasn't prime vs Tunney, and Max schmeling was never an ATG.

Sugarj
02-11-2012, 11:56 AM
Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling
Bassillo vs Sugarman
Fullmer vs Sugarman
Turpin vs Sugarman
Pep vs Sadler
Charles vs Walcott
Tunney vs Dempsey
just a few..................one of the best match ups ever was Holmes vs Norton, tremendous battle! Ray Corso


Great battles mate, but I wouldn't have said Sugar was prime for those matches. Likewise with Charles and Dempsey.

Superb well matched fights though......and yes Holmes vs Norton was superb.

Sugarj
02-11-2012, 11:58 AM
Ali vs Chuvalo 1 is as prime as he get's IMO. Decent opponent, Ali is experienced, and hasn't lost anything from the layoff. He can still move on his feet when he needs to, has amazing accuracy and hand speed.

I definitely recant my original statement. That was NOT a prime Ali in Frazier 1, but it was a good version.



Ali vs Chuvalo 1 was before the layoff matey. True that it was a great version of Ali though.

IronDanHamza
02-11-2012, 06:25 PM
How about Dick Tiger- Joey Giradello?

Does that fit the descritpion?

Ray Corso
02-11-2012, 06:40 PM
I'm starting to understand this "forum thing"! Someone makes a comment then others want to jump on it and rag or degrade or simply discredit!! Personally I think a Great fighter remains a great fighter till he stops. I understand prime meaning at his best but the great ones give their best no matter what age or era. Dempsey gave his all, that was great. Sugar against Turpin certainly wasn't Ray at his best or in his prime but his effort was incredable. You kids here need to get wins and loses out of your minds and understand that max efforts is what everyone wants to see at a fight. The better man that night wins but theres nothing wrong with a lose when everything is given to try to win. Being a fan is fine but trying to understand how a fighter has to live would serve some of you well.
ps Schmeling being held captive by hitler stopped his career and thats why some fans don't think of him as a great fighter. Just look at his tapes and you'll see a guy who is very sound at everything he does, he could punch hard also and his defeat over Louis "didn't" shock boxing people at that time. Is anyone in this discussion a fighter current or past? Ray

MRBOOMER
02-11-2012, 06:46 PM
Winky wright vs Shane Mosley 1 and 2

Fernando Vargas vs Felix Trinidad


Kelly palvik vs jermain Taylor 1

Jose Luis castillo vs Diego corrales

IronDanHamza
02-11-2012, 07:10 PM
I'm starting to understand this "forum thing"! Someone makes a comment then others want to jump on it and rag or degrade or simply discredit!! Personally I think a Great fighter remains a great fighter till he stops. I understand prime meaning at his best but the great ones give their best no matter what age or era. Dempsey gave his all, that was great. Sugar against Turpin certainly wasn't Ray at his best or in his prime but his effort was incredable. You kids here need to get wins and loses out of your minds and understand that max efforts is what everyone wants to see at a fight. The better man that night wins but theres nothing wrong with a lose when everything is given to try to win. Being a fan is fine but trying to understand how a fighter has to live would serve some of you well.
ps Schmeling being held captive by hitler stopped his career and thats why some fans don't think of him as a great fighter. Just look at his tapes and you'll see a guy who is very sound at everything he does, he could punch hard also and his defeat over Louis "didn't" shock boxing people at that time. Is anyone in this discussion a fighter current or past? Ray

Of course they'll still be remembered as great. And I see what you're saying.

But the TS is specifically asking for examples of an ATG facing another ATG when both in their prime.

Obviously, the likes of Tunney-Dempsey and Charles-Walcott don't fit that description.

Sugarj
02-11-2012, 07:40 PM
I'm starting to understand this "forum thing"! Someone makes a comment then others want to jump on it and rag or degrade or simply discredit!! Personally I think a Great fighter remains a great fighter till he stops. I understand prime meaning at his best but the great ones give their best no matter what age or era. Dempsey gave his all, that was great. Sugar against Turpin certainly wasn't Ray at his best or in his prime but his effort was incredable. You kids here need to get wins and loses out of your minds and understand that max efforts is what everyone wants to see at a fight. The better man that night wins but theres nothing wrong with a lose when everything is given to try to win. Being a fan is fine but trying to understand how a fighter has to live would serve some of you well.
ps Schmeling being held captive by hitler stopped his career and thats why some fans don't think of him as a great fighter. Just look at his tapes and you'll see a guy who is very sound at everything he does, he could punch hard also and his defeat over Louis "didn't" shock boxing people at that time. Is anyone in this discussion a fighter current or past? Ray


I wouldn't take any offense. You'll come across all sorts in forums. I totally see your angle too and rate your posting highly.

At the end of the day there are great fighters in their prime; and great fighters who fight great fights post prime.

If the thread were dedicated to great fights involving great fighters, we could have a plethora of vintage post prime efforts from fighters such as Benn vs McClellan, Foreman vs Moorer, Hopkins vs Tarver, Holyfield vs Lewis 2, Walcott vs Marciano etc.

Leonard vs Hearns 2 won the Ring fight of the year in what? 1989. Superb fight, but hardly prime for prime as in 1981. I think the thread starter was really only interested in fighters considered in their prime from an observational or historic perspective.

Miburo
02-12-2012, 12:25 AM
I define this as two fighters at their peak meeting up, which should disqualify bouts such as Leonard-Hearns (Hearns settled better into 154 and his legs/chin were sturdier). Going in it might have seemed that way though.

Scott9945
02-12-2012, 02:06 AM
I define this as two fighters at their peak meeting up, which should disqualify bouts such as Leonard-Hearns (Hearns settled better into 154 and his legs/chin were sturdier). Going in it might have seemed that way though.

But many would say that Tommy Hearns that night would have beaten almost any welterweight ever.

The_Demon
02-12-2012, 11:26 AM
I'm starting to understand this "forum thing"! Someone makes a comment then others want to jump on it and rag or degrade or simply discredit!! Personally I think a Great fighter remains a great fighter till he stops. I understand prime meaning at his best but the great ones give their best no matter what age or era. Dempsey gave his all, that was great. Sugar against Turpin certainly wasn't Ray at his best or in his prime but his effort was incredable. You kids here need to get wins and loses out of your minds and understand that max efforts is what everyone wants to see at a fight. The better man that night wins but theres nothing wrong with a lose when everything is given to try to win. Being a fan is fine but trying to understand how a fighter has to live would serve some of you well.
ps Schmeling being held captive by hitler stopped his career and thats why some fans don't think of him as a great fighter. Just look at his tapes and you'll see a guy who is very sound at everything he does, he could punch hard also and his defeat over Louis "didn't" shock boxing people at that time. Is anyone in this discussion a fighter current or past? Ray

No,you dont understand this 'forum thing'

Stop being a baby and crying everytime somebody disagrees with you or corrects you on something

Your clearly a very knowledgable guy,but stop thinking the whole forum is against you