View Full Version : Bill Conn in today's boxing enviorment....How great would he be?


JAB5239
02-06-2012, 03:53 AM
I gotta be honest, I was outraged by Chavez coming into the ring 21lbs over the middleweight limit the other night. He's a decent fighter but I've never been overly impressed by him. It's just my opinion but I think he's been coddled by his father's great name and genuinely lucky for the current state of boxing and it's day before weigh in policy. If he had to weigh in the same day I highly doubt he would even have a paper title at 168 or 175, which is the more likely weight he'd be forced to fight at.

Anyway, it got me thinking of Billy Conn since neither had an amateur background and how Conn would fare in todays game with day before weight ins and multiple weight classes.

The more I thought about it the more I came to realize Conn would at the very least be a titlist at 154, 160, 168, 175 and cruiserweight and probably the universally recognized champion in at least a few of them considering the array of great fighters he either beat or was highly competitive with at 160, 175 and heavyweight. Zivic, Dundee, Yarosz, Krieger, Corbett III, Apostoli, Pastor, Lesnivich, Savold, Barlund, Zale, and of course the great Joe Louis.

Both Conn and Chavez took the road less traveled by turning pro with no amateur experience. The difference is Chavez's road has been paved with gold and he has GPS guiding his every turn. Conn's road wasn't paved at all and was filled with pitfalls and dangerous corners to navigate.

Conn was great because he was willing to fight other great fighters and more times than not he beat them. Were he fighting today he'd be being touted as a top 10 all time great for covering so many weight classes.

My question is how great do you think he'd be if he fought today and under boxing's current circumstances?

MRBOOMER
02-06-2012, 04:04 AM
I gotta be honest, I was outraged by Chavez coming into the ring 21lbs over the middleweight limit the other night. He's a decent fighter but I've never been overly impressed by him. It's just my opinion but I think he's been coddled by his father's great name and genuinely lucky for the current state of boxing and it's day before weigh in policy. If he had to weigh in the same day I highly doubt he would even have a paper title at 168 or 175, which is the more likely weight he'd be forced to fight at.

Anyway, it got me thinking of Billy Conn since neither had an amateur background and how Conn would fare in todays game with day before weight ins and multiple weight classes.

The more I thought about it the more I came to realize Conn would at the very least be a titlist at 154, 160, 168, 175 and cruiserweight and probably the universally recognized champion in at least a few of them considering the array of great fighters he either beat or was highly competitive with at 160, 175 and heavyweight. Zivic, Dundee, Yarosz, Krieger, Corbett III, Apostoli, Pastor, Lesnivich, Savold, Barlund, Zale, and of course the great Joe Louis.

Both Conn and Chavez took the road less traveled by turning pro with no amateur experience. The difference is Chavez's road has been paved with gold and he has GPS guiding his every turn. Conn's road wasn't paved at all and was filled with pitfalls and dangerous corners to navigate.

Conn was great because he was willing to fight other great fighters and more times than not he beat them. Were he fighting today he'd be being touted as a top 10 all time great for covering so many weight classes.

My question is how great do you think he'd be if he fought today and under boxing's current circumstances?

I've only ever seen the Louis fight. It from what I hear he was pretty fleet foote and a good boxer but I don't think he'd be as good today as he was in the past because the fighters that fought in the weight classes back when he fought seemed slower and less defensive just kinda walking trying to catch him with fighters that can match him in smarts and boxing ability and speed he would Prbly have a harder time some one like Chavez he'd Prbly beat half to death someone like chalzage or the g-man or jones would Prbly stop him or out class him by wide descions but that's all I've seen so idk

Barn
02-06-2012, 10:39 AM
I've only ever seen the Louis fight. It from what I hear he was pretty fleet foote and a good boxer but I don't think he'd be as good today as he was in the past because the fighters that fought in the weight classes back when he fought seemed slower and less defensive just kinda walking trying to catch him with fighters that can match him in smarts and boxing ability and speed he would Prbly have a harder time some one like Chavez he'd Prbly beat half to death someone like chalzage or the g-man or jones would Prbly stop him or out class him by wide descions but that's all I've seen so idk
Chavez Jr is only good if you stand in front of him, once he meets a mover like Conn he's broken and lost in my opinion.

If you can outbox Joe Louis, you can do the same to Chavez Jr. It's really that simple.

Sugarj
02-06-2012, 10:58 AM
I think prime Conn would look superb in todays ring.

His hand and footspeed alone is fantastic. His accuracy and combination work was also superb. Great heart and a great chin too! Naa, he'd have no problems................

House of Stone
02-06-2012, 11:23 AM
even if Conn was part of this generation we all know Chavez jnr wouldn't dare fight him anyway lol

Ray Corso
02-06-2012, 11:43 AM
Maybe its time to consider that when you bring a fighter from 1935 into this era that they be afforded the years of evolution that they contributed to. Conn is a prime example when it comes to a great boxer whos contributions was huge for future stylists. Maybe its time to think of the current fighters going back to the gone by eras and performing with less skills than they actually have? After all its all make believe, lets make believe that Leonard or even Ali didn't have Sugar Ray or Willie Pep and Conn to learn how to move and punch in combination. To bring boxers forward in time is a misjustice to them, make the field level if you could imagine how to. 'Or consider that when Joe Louis is transported to the 2010s that hes gonna benefit from Charles to Marciano to Ali and Holmes. Just as they did from him back in the day. Evolution!!! Think of how great Louis was compared to the top twenty fighters from his past.
They look slower on film because the filming is so old and the technology then was nothing like todays !! I quarentee you if Jake LaMotta was in front of you and the bell rang you wouldn't think hes slow or ploding, what middleweight today (now) could stand in front of him? He fought the best fighter/boxer in history 5 times and they were Sugarmans most demanding bouts. Its fun to "match" the fighters from eras but theres an evolution that needs to be considered to be fair to all of them. Just 2 cents from a old school retired trainer. Ray

res
02-06-2012, 12:36 PM
but I don't think he'd be as good today as he was in the past because the fighters that fought in the weight classes back when he fought seemed slower and less defensive just kinda walking trying to catch him

I don't know if that's quite an accurate description of his fights.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NF1juC112yc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

MRBOOMER
02-06-2012, 01:21 PM
Chavez Jr is only good if you stand in front of him, once he meets a mover like Conn he's broken and lost in my opinion.

If you can outbox Joe Louis, you can do the same to Chavez Jr. It's really that simple.

That's what I said I said conn would Prbly beat him half to death...

joseph5620
02-06-2012, 01:41 PM
Chavez Jr is only good if you stand in front of him, once he meets a mover like Conn he's broken and lost in my opinion.

If you can outbox Joe Louis, you can do the same to Chavez Jr. It's really that simple.

This is pretty accurate in my view. Chavez jr would be completely lost against Conn. I'm still not sold on Chavez jr at all and everything Jab said about the weight is excatly how I feel about it.

bojangles1987
02-06-2012, 01:51 PM
Anyone that can outbox Joe Louis is simply going to make almost everyone at 160-cruiserweight today look really bad.

MRBOOMER
02-06-2012, 02:50 PM
Lol has anyone seen this video? It's a joe Louis video plz embed for me idk how.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R78hdxpRfws&feature=youtube_gdata_player

NChristo
02-06-2012, 03:11 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/R78hdxpRfws" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

McGoorty
02-07-2012, 08:57 AM
I think he would be a greater force now then when he was fighting, Conn had so many attributes, not a lot of film of him but we have him in his greatest moment as a fighter, need I even have to mention his fight with Brown Bomber esq.... please watch it if you havent,,, he got caught,,, but he had proved his ability and toughness in that fight,, and it also shows a fighter with a supreme confidence in his ability to beat anyone,, even a demi-god like Louis. With all the extra titles on offer we'd see a fighter with many belts,, did he lack speed and combination punching ability,, NO,, certainly not, I think it'd be great to see him fight in High Def and live, in fact I think Id follow every fight of his.

kendom
02-07-2012, 12:19 PM
I think he would be a greater force now then when he was fighting, Conn had so many attributes, not a lot of film of him but we have him in his greatest moment as a fighter, need I even have to mention his fight with Brown Bomber esq.... please watch it if you havent,,, he got caught,,, but he had proved his ability and toughness in that fight,, and it also shows a fighter with a supreme confidence in his ability to beat anyone,, even a demi-god like Louis. With all the extra titles on offer we'd see a fighter with many belts,, did he lack speed and combination punching ability,, NO,, certainly not, I think it'd be great to see him fight in High Def and live, in fact I think Id follow every fight of his.

Where is that fight btw? is it somewhere on the internet, cause I cant ind the whole fight on youtube.

Barn
02-07-2012, 12:26 PM
Where is that fight btw? is it somewhere on the internet, cause I cant ind the whole fight on youtube.
I have a downloaded version and that's not the full fight. Not sure it exists.

kendom
02-07-2012, 12:50 PM
I have a downloaded version and that's not the full fight. Not sure it exists.

But... but... I was watching this documentary about the billy conn- Louis rivalry and it was showing footage of rounds from diff parts of the fight.

Barn
02-07-2012, 01:28 PM
But... but... I was watching this documentary about the billy conn- Louis rivalry and it was showing footage of rounds from diff parts of the fight.
Yeah mines is like that, basically a highlight of it. Full fight in 18 minutes. Got it from Obama so I imagine it must be one of the most full versions.