View Full Version : [B]Diaz didn't even try for a TD til the 5th ???[/B]


Bacatit
02-05-2012, 02:52 PM
First of all I am a fan of Diaz but let's be real here. Diaz is BJJ first and he was obviously a bit confused by Condit on the feet. Condit used that leg kick like a jab and circled out like a smart fighter should when banging is inadvisable.

I wanted GSP vs Diaz but if Diaz couldn't inflict his will on Condit (who is tough) I don't see what his plan was for GSP...If you want to beat a guy with a good game plan you have a better game plan if your not going to put it all on the line to get the finish early.

Diaz tried to take it to the ground maybe 3 times before the 5th and he didn't try very hard as if he was preserving energy for the 4th & 5th. Bottom line is Diaz did not leave it all in the octagon and will live to regret it.

Diaz lost the decision fair & square and I believe Diaz doesn't really want the spotlight or the respect he complains about not getting. When it's time to really earn respect Diaz caves or doesn't show up. Diaz is king of the underdogs and seems to be content with that.

Diaz and Penn are 2 of a kind and both are starting to look like Brats to me. Both have potential to be the best in the world but both have contender mentalities.

Prop Me

Bacatit
02-05-2012, 02:58 PM
Let's not forget about the body shots Condit landed that had Diaz visibly worried. I can't believe Condit didn't pick up on that and throw more. Condit should have spent the rest of the night fakin to the head/body with punches/kicks and secured his dominance instead of playing it Greg Jackson safe because he completely abandoned his killer instinct for the W.

I can't really knock it though for both fighters this was like the money fight to get to the Money Fight !

I still say Diaz is the one who dropped the ball though, it was his hype and his history that was on the line not Condits. Condits and his team did what they felt they had to do to get where they needed to be and Nick quit because of his mistakes.

kaps
02-05-2012, 03:00 PM
Diaz expected to be fighting Carlos Condit, Condit didn't show up so he got out pointed by Greg Jackson's puppet. He was as confused as me or anyone else who's ever seen Carlos fight before was.....

http://sadpanda.us/images/833507-E0HO1F7.gif

Bacatit
02-05-2012, 03:11 PM
Diaz expected to be fighting Carlos Condit, Condit didn't show up so he got out pointed by Greg Jackson's puppet. He was as confused as me or anyone else who's ever seen Carlos fight before was.....

http://sadpanda.us/images/833507-E0HO1F7.gif

Diaz wanted to box and Carlos decided to kick box. Diaz was supposed to be confused just as boxers give opponents different looks.

The sad part is Condit attack was a bit predictable after round 2 and it was obvious Nick need to do something about those kicks like cut off the octagon but he did not... why ?... because Condit landed as he circle out.

MMA is still a sport and if you don't finish those points matter. How do we score fight based on effective aggression and octagon control when a fighter loses that control in most exchanges and the aggression is not very effective ?

Rampage v Forrest
Rampage v Machida
Machida v Shogun
Faber v Cruz

This was not a Evans v Davis type of occasion where one fighter is schooling the other . Evans didn't talk **** but could have in that fight even though he didn't get the finish, Diaz was talking **** and losing the points game with no finish insight.

Frogs!
02-05-2012, 03:20 PM
Diaz expected to be fighting Carlos Condit, Condit didn't show up so he got out pointed by Greg Jackson's puppet. He was as confused as me or anyone else who's ever seen Carlos fight before was.....

http://sadpanda.us/images/833507-E0HO1F7.gif

well it was a great gameplan by condit's team then.

they confused not only diaz but the fans as well.

a win is still a win no matter how you got there unless it was an obvious robbery.

just imagine if the pats who has a pass happy offense all of a sudden ran the ball almost every down therefore confusing the giants who wasn't ready for it and eeked out an ugly win?

do we blame brady and belichick or coughlin and the giants for not being able to adjust?

kaps
02-05-2012, 03:26 PM
Nobody is blaming Carlos for winning. He did what he had to do, just kinda sad that he sold out to do it. Winning in more important than putting on great fights. That's why I miss Pride....

kaps
02-05-2012, 03:28 PM
I had Diaz winning rounds 1,2, and 5, but they where close so I don't really care that Condit got the decision. I guess I was just hoping Killer Condit would show up.....

Frogs!
02-05-2012, 03:31 PM
Nobody is blaming Carlos for winning. He did what he had to do, just kinda sad that he sold out to do it. Winning in more important than putting on great fights. That's why I miss Pride....

after the 2nd when it was clear what condit was doing, his corner should have advised him to go for the takedown every chance he gets.

seems like it was more important for them to win the machismo way.

sucks cause i wanted to see diaz vs gsp.

Bacatit
02-05-2012, 03:59 PM
Nobody is blaming Carlos for winning. He did what he had to do, just kinda sad that he sold out to do it. Winning in more important than putting on great fights. That's why I miss Pride....

If Diaz wasn't winning nobody would want to see him fight GSP or COndit am I right. In the end as boring as some people think a guy like Rashad is or Machida was all that matter is that W whether it come late or early on.

Anderson is the best ever, Jon Jones maybe the most exciting ever but if they lost even one of the last 3 fights they'd be Vitor status.

Think Vitor...

Now think Anderson...

Both exciting to watch it's just that one of them seems to be unstoppable.

Bacatit
02-05-2012, 04:05 PM
I had Diaz winning rounds 1,2, and 5, but they where close so I don't really care that Condit got the decision. I guess I was just hoping Killer Condit would show up.....

Why risk it when GSP is the goal ?

We want GSP dethroned not Carlos or Nick.

Let's be honest if Nick fought GSP like that he would have been put on his back and bloodied up in a boring 5 round fight. As it stands right now an injured GSP is better than both and would have dominated either last night.

If they fight now I promise GSP will attack Diaz body like no ever has because it was a visible problem that was overlooked. GSP's whole training camp will revolve around finding away to destroy Nicks's body.with mediocre boxing and pretty good kick boxing techniques.

kaps
02-05-2012, 04:08 PM
If Diaz wasn't winning nobody would want to see him fight GSP or COndit am I right. In the end as boring as some people think a guy like Rashad is or Machida was all that matter is that W whether it come late or early on.

Anderson is the best ever, Jon Jones maybe the most exciting ever but if they lost even one of the last 3 fights they'd be Vitor status.

Think Vitor...

Now think Anderson...

Both exciting to watch it's just that one of them seems to be unstoppable.

The Reason people wanted to see Nick or Condit fight GSP was because of the type of fighters they are/where. All their fights are throwdowns and both always look for a finish. Are you telling me that's the Condit that showed up last night? That's why I am a Diaz fan and was a Condit fan, not only because they won, but because of how they won. Jon Fitch wins all the time, but nobody cares to see him fight GSP because of how he does it.....

kaps
02-05-2012, 04:11 PM
Why risk it when GSP is the goal ?

We want GSP dethroned not Carlos or Nick.

Let's be honest if Nick fought GSP like that he would have been put on his back and bloodied up in a boring 5 round fight. As it stands right now an injured GSP is better than both and would have dominated either last night.

Actually I think it would've looked more like last nights fight. I don't think GSP wants to go to the ground with Nick, which made the fight more interesting. After last night I'm 100 percent certain that GSP would've been in and out with leg kicks and on his heels the entire time. That was probably Jackson's plan for GSP to fight Diaz before GSP got hurt. He just turned Carlos into GSP....

Bacatit
02-05-2012, 04:24 PM
The Reason people wanted to see Nick or Condit fight GSP was because of the type of fighters they are/where. All their fights are throwdowns and both always look for a finish. Are you telling me that's the Condit that showed up last night? That's why I am a Diaz fan and was a Condit fan, not only because they won, but because of how they won. Jon Fitch wins all the time, but nobody cares to see him fight GSP because of how he does it.....


I understand that but it wouldn't be wise for Condit to Bang with Nick or go to the ground with Nick because Nick maybe better at both so then what does a winner do ?
Find a way.

Nick had those two major advantages and didn't capitalize. Even Tyson would have done well to adjust his style when facing guys like Lewis and Holyfield.

Bacatit
02-05-2012, 04:28 PM
Actually I think it would've looked more like last nights fight. I don't think GSP wants to go to the ground with Nick, which made the fight more interesting. After last night I'm 100 percent certain that GSP would've been in and out with leg kicks and on his heels the entire time. That was probably Jackson's plan for GSP to fight Diaz before GSP got hurt. He just turned Carlos into GSP....

No, if Diaz walks up on GSP like he did Condit he will be put on his back quickly. Diaz would willing go to his back rather than struggle with the stronger man and he would spend the whole fight being muscled around.

The key here Power, Diversity,Discipline.

kaps
02-05-2012, 04:33 PM
I understand that but it wouldn't be wise for Condit to Bang with Nick or go to the ground with Nick because Nick maybe better at both so then what does a winner do ?
Find a way.

Nick had those two major advantages and didn't capitalize. Even Tyson would have done well to adjust his style when facing guys like Lewis and Holyfield.

I thought Carlos was tough and strong enough to stand in there with Nick and trade, I guess he and Jackson didn't agree though. That's why this fight was exciting on paper. 2 guys who love a good fight fighting it out. See Hendo vs. Shogun.

kaps
02-05-2012, 04:34 PM
No, if Diaz walks up on GSP like he did Condit he will be put on his back quickly. Diaz would willing go to his back rather than struggle with the stronger man and he would spend the whole fight being muscled around.

The key here Power, Diversity,Discipline.

Diaz wants to be on his back, GSP don't want none of Diaz's ground game, he's trained with Renzo long enough to know that Diaz is the superior grappler...

kaps
02-05-2012, 04:36 PM
P.S. Marshall if you're around, this is what a rational arguement/discussion looks like...

F l i c k e r
02-05-2012, 04:53 PM
So, do you think Condit would have won standing in front of Diaz and slugging it out?

kaps
02-05-2012, 04:57 PM
So, do you think Condit would have won standing in front of Diaz and slugging it out?

I honestly thought he had a chance, that's why I was nervous for this fight. Carlos is a strong striker with lots of tools. He and Greg Jackson disagreed apparently. Like I said man, I'm not mad at the decision, I had Nick ahead by a round but it was a close fight, so you can't cry robbery in a close fight, but this should've been epic and Carlos robbed us all of a great fight to play it safe for a title shot...

Marshall89
02-05-2012, 05:29 PM
I'm still here you know.
Listen, I said Nick would have beaten Condit if the fight was fought the way Nick wanted it to, all day.I couldn't see Nick knocking him out but then again, I couldn't see Nick knocking Daley out either.
I'm just sayin, yu say yu was a fan of Nick and Carlos before yesterday, but clearly Nick is your number #1 favourite, yu are annoyed he lost and come out with stupid things like Condit flapped and ran the whole fight.
I reckon the first couple rounds he got caught up in Nicks fight and quickly realised he needed to switch to plan B if he was gonna win n land the title shot. If dat was me i would have done the exact same thing, He realised his power wasn't gonna put Nick down early on so he fought the perfect fight. Daley dropped Nick though so i think he had a chance still, but obviously the way Nick bullies and backs his opponents up concerned Carlos.
I to would hav loved to have seen Carlos go at it like he did against Hardy, but the stakes were Bare higher here. Like i say, Mayweather and Ward do the same thing to keep that 0, look how many fans they have ... Mayweather holds the all time PPV records n dat.

I'd like a rematch personally, it won't happen yet but i think Nick will fight Koscheck who will be a real tough fight for him aswell, Nick will probably beat him, he'll get the GSP fight anyway whatever happens.
Nick's a real sore loser man, he just wants to be fast tracked to the title shot and weren't happy. He'll be back though, he's only 28 n he's a warrior he loves it. He needs a plan b and plan c though to succeed in UFC with the top boys.
Dana said Carlos had the last 3 rounds aswell, Baffled that the judges scored it 4 rounds to 1, but like i say Carlos landed the heavier and better combos so i can understand.

kaps
02-05-2012, 05:37 PM
Condit hit an ran himself to a safe victory instead of fighting like the fighter I was a fan of. That's it, no more no less. Here are a list of people who agree that Carlos backpedaled the entire fight and scored the fight for Nick. But I suppose you know more about MMA than they do....

Ronda rousey
Pat militech
Nate Diaz
Micah miller
Cody mckenzie
Kit cope
Yves Edwards
Mark Munoz
Matt lindland
Dan Henderson
Joe Lauzon
Andre Ward
Josh Neer
Tim Kennedy
Daniel Cormier
Danny Downes
Vinny Magalhaes
mike ciesnolevicz
Cung Le
Ariel Helwani
Jens Pulver
Marloes Coenen
Anderson Silva
Chuck Liddell

Oh and one of Nick's biggest haters. Jake Ellenberger....

Marshall89
02-05-2012, 05:50 PM
Dana, the judges and enough mma fighters that i can't be arsed to search for agree that Condit won the fight, but i'm sure you know more about MMA than they do.....

kaps
02-05-2012, 05:54 PM
Dana, the judges and enough mma fighters that i can't be arsed to search for agree that Condit won the fight, but i'm sure you know more about MMA than they do.....

I guarantee I know more about MMA than Cecil Peoples. I can show you where you can find the fighters who thought Carlos won.....

5505 Acoma SE Albuquerque, NM 87108
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=5505+Acoma+SE+Albuquerque,+NM+87108&fb=1&gl=us&hnear=5505+Acoma+SE+Albuquerque,+NM+87108&cid=0,0,17827635820712874793&ei=DwgvS9PLF83cnAfhuv3tCA&sa=X&oi=lo

kaps
02-05-2012, 05:56 PM
And again, you're stuck on weather he won or lost and not what I don't like, and that's how he won or lost. If Nick Diaz would've fought like that and won I would be thoroughly disappointed in him, then again, he's not the type to sell out for a title shot. Didn't think Condit was either until last night...

Marshall89
02-05-2012, 06:05 PM
I'm not stuck on wether he won or lost bro, you r the one who keeps posting peoples names that scored the fight to Nick...

Marshall89
02-05-2012, 06:09 PM
I understand why yur disappointed with the fight overall, i was aswell, as i'm sure Dana and 90% of everyone involved in MMA were. Had he have stood there and banged wid Nick, he would have lost, no question. Everyone is allowed to fight like that once in a while with so much on the line. He's got his title shot now, which he will lose, then Nick will be in to fight GSP, will be a good fight, but Nick will lose aswell. Erick Silva will have the best chance of the W against GSP after a couple years.

Marshall89
02-05-2012, 06:14 PM
I'ma watch the fight again later when it's repeated on ESPN. I'll look at it from your's and Nick's point of view.

kaps
02-05-2012, 06:17 PM
I can't defend it, as a fight fan, Diaz hater, or Condit Nuthugger I don't see how you can either. He took a fight in which both fighters heart, toughness, and determination would've of been tested, a fight that would've made Shogun vs. Hendo look like Shamrock/Severn 2 and turned it into a sparring match. How can you be happy with that? He changed who he was to earn a title shot. That's why he lost my respect.....

kaps
02-05-2012, 06:18 PM
It was close so I can't claim Robbery, except that Carlos robbed the fans of FOTY....

kaps
02-05-2012, 06:20 PM
Also, I don't share Nick's point of view. He thinks he won every round, he clearly lost rounds 3 and 4....

Bacatit
02-05-2012, 07:28 PM
Also, I don't share Nick's point of view. He thinks he won every round, he clearly lost rounds 3 and 4....

I'm glad to hear that. A lot of people are trying to make this an all out robbery by the judges when Condit had everything to do with it.

Again I don't blame Condit for the stick and move because it was working. I blame Nick for not supplying an answer for in 25 minutes of fighting. Nick was the hunter that night but he just got outfoxed.

I can forgive Diaz if he comes back learns from his mistake but if what we heard in the speech last night was true I will have lost a ton of love for Diaz....but he will be back better than before he's still a hardcore rider.

Marshall89
02-05-2012, 08:10 PM
I can't defend it, as a fight fan, Diaz hater, or Condit Nuthugger I don't see how you can either. He took a fight in which both fighters heart, toughness, and determination would've of been tested, a fight that would've made Shogun vs. Hendo look like Shamrock/Severn 2 and turned it into a sparring match. How can you be happy with that? He changed who he was to earn a title shot. That's why he lost my respect.....

I'm not defending it, nor am i a Carlos Condit nuthugger or a Nick Diaz hater, neutral wid both still. Just saying that, had dat been me in the octagon wid Nick for a title shot, n if i felt i couldn't bang wid him i'd try sumin different, Carlos got it spot on from Round 3 onwards, he did lay some heavy punches on Nick, but he weren't moving lol just kept coming...
Yu can't go on like it was a Maia vs Silva repeat, but it was f***ery compared to what it could have been, never even go fight of the night. Nick should have took him down earlier in the fight, thrown more punches and not let Condit 'run'.
Everyone grief's GSP for bein boring and always wrestlin, but he switched it up against Koscheck n battered him. Yu shouldn't lose respect for Condit for acceptin he can't bang wid Nick to fight GSP for the title. But yeah, he killed the fight for the fans ! Just like David Haye and Wlad did last year...
I ent seein a fight coming close to Hendo vs Rua anytime soon...

Clegg
02-05-2012, 08:17 PM
Yeah, it kinda reminded me of Edgar-Penn too, where you're wondering why the guy with amazing BJJ skills won't just use them.

BKM-2010
02-05-2012, 08:30 PM
Nick tried several TD's in this fight, not just in the 5th. Maybe he should have tried to take his back for the drag-takedown much earlier but easier said than done of cource. Point is though, Diaz has weak TD's.

kaps
02-05-2012, 08:44 PM
I guess the only Nick Diaz fan on the forum that thought that Carlos could stand and bang with him....

iLovesoccermoms
02-05-2012, 08:51 PM
Diaz shouldve pressed at the end of the day, ive seen WAY to many hate threads on the guy who was more active..:thinking:

Marshall89
02-05-2012, 11:12 PM
Big Country was walking Werdum down all night aswell, walking down doesn't constitute a W though does it lol.
I did think Carlos could stand there and bang wid him, but Nick is just a better dirty fighter than Carlos! Nick will eat shots and keep walking yu down, Carlos couldn't deal wid dat, he no one can take a punch like Nick can, so he switched. He smothers yu man, gives yu no space n dat. Just watched it again n it was close a f*ck yu know, especially dem 3 rounds everyone reckons Nick took

Bacatit
02-06-2012, 12:45 AM
Nick tried several TD's in this fight, not just in the 5th. Maybe he should have tried to take his back for the drag-takedown much earlier but easier said than done of cource. Point is though, Diaz has weak TD's.

He didn't really try for those take downs like he wanted them until the last one where he put all 5 rounds into that one submission attempt that may have been successful given another 60 seconds but Nick didn't have 60 seconds left.

That being said if he indeed did want to take Condit down at any point during that fight other than the 5th he may have the worst td's in the game...

I think even if he got Condit down early he would have let him back up due to his new found confidence in his hands just like Rampage. These guys get so focused on improving in one aspect of the sport they become like kids with toy guns rarely relying on what got them to the point they are at until it's too late.

Diaz needs to make a youtube video soon... with answers and another opponent in mind. Diaz is in the right position but he needs to respect the game so he can rise to his full potential with the help of all his resources.

RIZO24
02-06-2012, 08:23 AM
I still think Diaz won rounds 1,2 n 5 but it couldo f gone either way.. The dissapointing thing is how Condit sold out. He needs to go back to the old Condit style becsue that way of figting will not make him a champion anywhere. GSP will take him down and grind him to death. If Condit wants to turn ino the next Fitch then he can keep fighting the way he fought Diaz and no one will want to watch him fight.. Who here wants to pay for a fight that looks more like a sparring match and ends in a decision??But dont lie! No one wants to watch long fights that end in decisions!!!!

BKM-2010
02-06-2012, 08:44 AM
He didn't really try for those take downs like he wanted them until the last one where he put all 5 rounds into that one submission attempt that may have been successful given another 60 seconds but Nick didn't have 60 seconds left.

That being said if he indeed did want to take Condit down at any point during that fight other than the 5th he may have the worst td's in the game...

I think even if he got Condit down early he would have let him back up due to his new found confidence in his hands just like Rampage. These guys get so focused on improving in one aspect of the sport they become like kids with toy guns rarely relying on what got them to the point they are at until it's too late.

Diaz needs to make a youtube video soon... with answers and another opponent in mind. Diaz is in the right position but he needs to respect the game so he can rise to his full potential with the help of all his resources.

I Disagree I think Diaz has gone for a submission once it hits the ground many times. Although it is worrying that he said "I didn't go for the submission at the end because I thought I was ahead on points and there were a few seconds left" against Condit. We know he has great hands but he better not neglect his BJJ from now on because I don't know how many more of these favorable matchups he's gonna get. It's actually kind of crazy how long a guy at this level has not faced a high level wrestler.

Bacatit
02-06-2012, 12:24 PM
I Disagree I think Diaz has gone for a submission once it hits the ground many times.

Has gone yes but he looked (was) hesitant to go to the ground forcefully last night he let his opportunities go with ease. Take the Kos fight for instance, yes he is a wrestlers but when he tried to get a guy down you knew it.

I'm giving Diaz the benefit of the doubt by saying it was an act of ****iness and not fear, it very well could have been either one.

Diaz needs to get used to being back in the big show because he didn't back down but I think he mentally chocked.

Boxing/BJJ = check
It's time for some Muay Thai / Wrestling training for Nick.

GSP remains top dog and he lost me as a fan around the time A.Silva started putting on artful masterpieces.