View Full Version : Why do so many hardcore boxing fans like to pretend that De La Hoya isn't an ATG?


-Deal With It-
01-31-2012, 08:04 AM
I mean seriously, can you really name 100 boxers with greater career acheivments and a greater resume than Oscar? You would be hardpressed to find even 60-75 fighters more accomplished than Oscar.

Discuss.

Mannie Phresh
01-31-2012, 08:09 AM
i wish he would have pressed the fight the last four rounds against tito beyond that he carried the sport for years til pacquiao/mayweather and he did it better than they are doing combined.

Sugarj
01-31-2012, 08:29 AM
De La Hoya is certainly an ATG and will go down in history as one!

He gets a bit of grief for his cross dressing, his pretty boy looks, the camp dance he did after beating Chavez and his 'sometimes' feminine dimenour (which I've always interpreted as a bit of a media act).

But in the ring he was superb, every inch the man. His accomplishments amateur and pro are excellent. He fought dozens of pound for pound rated fighters (at their best too!! Trinidad, Mayweather, Mosley, Pacquiou, Hopkins jump to mind). Even when losing, his performances were often very good.

There isn't a welterweight in history who has an 'easy' time with prime De La Hoya.

RightStraight
01-31-2012, 09:21 AM
One of the finest left hooks I've seen in the game. De la Hoya was ferocious up until the Trinidad fight, I think the loss broke his confidence some so you can see a difference in him before and after. His style wasn't as intense afterwards, then he had the Mosley and Hopkins.

I love DLH, his boxing is truly superb and he really looked sharp for a long time. He wasn't a push over, had an great left hook, lots of technicality and skill, pretty dominate career, a great chin, I don't think I've ever heard of or seen DLH take a punch (to his face) that shook him.

DLH, regardless of his media antics and personal life, will always be among the greatest. :boxing:

New England
01-31-2012, 03:27 PM
De La Hoya is certainly an ATG and will go down in history as one!

He gets a bit of grief for his cross dressing, his pretty boy looks, the camp dance he did after beating Chavez and his 'sometimes' feminine dimenour (which I've always interpreted as a bit of a media act).

But in the ring he was superb, every inch the man. His accomplishments amateur and pro are excellent. He fought dozens of pound for pound rated fighters (at their best too!! Trinidad, Mayweather, Mosley, Pacquiou, Hopkins jump to mind). Even when losing, his performances were often very good.

There isn't a welterweight in history who has an 'easy' time with prime De La Hoya.

another good post.

while i think there would probably be at least an argument for 100 other boxers in front of oscar i have no qualms whatsoever in calling him a bonafide great fighter
and if people want to rank him somewhere in the latter half of their top 100 i'm all for hearing out their cases.


oscar was a handful for anybody at LW as well. i'm not saying he's an ATG beater necessarily, but his chin, jab, punch, and skills make him a handful

he lost many of his biggest fights, but he took on all comers.
other than the hook and the fame i think he'll be remembered for that the most.

as you said, he fought EVERYBody

friggin gatti to hopkins
mayweather to vargas
pacquiao to quartey

i could go on. the guy has an unbelievable resume as an amateur and pro. and he was in some great fights. quartey, vargas, and of course mosley 1 are classic fights.

he lost 5 out of 228 amateur fights!

223 wins!

Rip Chudd
01-31-2012, 03:41 PM
Where is Jro when you need him?

IronDanHamza
01-31-2012, 04:08 PM
He's not an ATG in my book.

I consider him a first Ballot HOF'er and a Boarderline ATG.

Similar to Trinidad and others.

Vadrigar.
01-31-2012, 04:20 PM
Obviously an ATG.

Beat Pernell Whitaker, shane Mosely twice and JCC. What's not to like?

IronDanHamza
01-31-2012, 04:21 PM
Obviously an ATG.

Beat Pernell Whitaker, shane Mosely twice and JCC. What's not to like?

I can't tell if you're being serious.

Are you?

Welsh Jon
01-31-2012, 04:23 PM
I would never attempt to make a list of top 100 fighters of all time, so I can't honestly say that De La Hoya is not a top 100 worthy fighter.

But I can say that I believe that from his generation of fighters, Pernell Whitaker, JCC, RJJ, Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather Jr, Bernard Hopkins and Evander Holyfield were/are all better than him. So he's a top 10 fighter of the last 20 years.

Where that leaves him ranked overall I wouldn't like to say.

IronDanHamza
01-31-2012, 04:32 PM
I would never attempt to make a list of top 100 fighters of all time, so I can't honestly say that De La Hoya is not a top 100 worthy fighter.

But I can say that I believe that from his generation of fighters, Pernell Whitaker, JCC, RJJ, Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather Jr, Bernard Hopkins and Evander Holyfield were/are all better than him. So he's a top 10 fighter of the last 20 years.

Where that leaves him ranked overall I wouldn't like to say.

I'd also add off the top of my head; Morales, Barrera, Marquez, Toney, McCallum (A lot of his top wins were over 22 years ago but he still has a great list in the last 22) and Trinidad who I would rank above him in the last 20 years.

So he wouldn't be in my Top 10 of the last 22 years.

Dubbed90
01-31-2012, 05:47 PM
I would never attempt to make a list of top 100 fighters of all time, so I can't honestly say that De La Hoya is not a top 100 worthy fighter.

But I can say that I believe that from his generation of fighters, Pernell Whitaker, JCC, RJJ, Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather Jr, Bernard Hopkins and Evander Holyfield were/are all better than him. So he's a top 10 fighter of the last 20 years.

Where that leaves him ranked overall I wouldn't like to say.

Pacquiao? ****in facepalm.

Scott9945
01-31-2012, 05:49 PM
De La Hoya is an all time great box office attraction, and as Dan said a first ballot hall of famer. As an ATG fighter, he falls considerably short, IMO.

Welsh Jon
01-31-2012, 05:52 PM
Pacquiao? ****in facepalm.

Care to explain why ****in faceplam?

Sugarj
01-31-2012, 06:44 PM
another good post.

while i think there would probably be at least an argument for 100 other boxers in front of oscar i have no qualms whatsoever in calling him a bonafide great fighter
and if people want to rank him somewhere in the latter half of their top 100 i'm all for hearing out their cases.


oscar was a handful for anybody at LW as well. i'm not saying he's an ATG beater necessarily, but his chin, jab, punch, and skills make him a handful

he lost many of his biggest fights, but he took on all comers.
other than the hook and the fame i think he'll be remembered for that the most.

as you said, he fought EVERYBody

friggin gatti to hopkins
mayweather to vargas
pacquiao to quartey

i could go on. the guy has an unbelievable resume as an amateur and pro. and he was in some great fights. quartey, vargas, and of course mosley 1 are classic fights.

he lost 5 out of 228 amateur fights!

223 wins!


Cheers bud

jrosales13
01-31-2012, 11:04 PM
Oscar is an ATG draw, PPV attraction. He is in the elite of elites in that category. First ballot HOF'er IMO. If I could vote for the HOF and I see Oscar name on the ballot. I would vote for him.

However, an ATG fighter? He is not. He's not even top 100 ATG. He is not top 10 in the last 25 years. Which is close to my lifetime. He is just not an ATG fighter, he falls very short of that.

Obama
01-31-2012, 11:07 PM
Meh, he's a borderline case. Depends on your criteria for ATG, top 100 p4p yay above that nay? He's probably somewhere around 100...

Capaedia
01-31-2012, 11:10 PM
I once heard him described as 'not the sum of his parts' on this forum.

That describes him very well, he could've been an ATG, but for whatever reason or combination of reasons, was not.

Junior M Weight
01-31-2012, 11:58 PM
Pacquiao? ****in facepalm.

Care to explain why ****in faceplam?

Look at oscars resume. No way in hell the ******* survives and does as well as oscar if he goes through the list.

Pacman would ask Trinidad/Vargas/Whitaker to fight at a catchweight if they ever met. The funny and sad part about this statement is that its true.

I will always remember Oscar for giving away the fight to Trinidad. Never been so angry over a boxing match in my life.

Scott9945
02-01-2012, 12:47 AM
Look at oscars resume. No way in hell the ******* survives and does as well as oscar if he goes through the list.

Pacman would ask Trinidad/Vargas/Whitaker to fight at a catchweight if they ever met. The funny and sad part about this statement is that its true.

I will always remember Oscar for giving away the fight to Trinidad. Never been so angry over a boxing match in my life.

I was angry that I paid $50 for a crap fight. Oscar losing made it better for me though.

Left2theliver
02-01-2012, 02:20 AM
I don't see why he wouldn't be an ATG, he fought some of the best and beat them, won numerous titles, and was able to bring new fans into boxing.

Dubbed90
02-01-2012, 11:24 AM
Care to explain why ****in faceplam?

If De La Hoya gets left out the list. There's no way on hell the likes of Pacquiao gets in.

What has Pacquiao achieved, putting aside his limited technique and ability?

Welsh Jon
02-01-2012, 12:34 PM
If De La Hoya gets left out the list. There's no way on hell the likes of Pacquiao gets in.

What has Pacquiao achieved, putting aside his limited technique and ability?

I never said Pacquiao was a top 100 atg and De La Hoya wasn't. I'm not prepared to make an all time top 100 list.

What I did say was that I ranked Pacquiao higher than I ranked Del La Hoya. Forget all the cherry-picking and the catch-weight bull**** of last few years and just remember how good he was beating Morales, Barrera and JMM (only their last fight was a robbery, I count his 1st victory over Marguez as genuine)

And I did say that De La Hoya was top 10 in the last 20 years, that's not much of an insult is it?

rorymac
02-01-2012, 01:06 PM
I mean seriously, can you really name 100 boxers with greater career acheivments and a greater resume than Oscar? You would be hardpressed to find even 60-75 fighters more accomplished than Oscar.

Discuss.
Oscar's resume (in terms of who hes faced, not necessarily who he's beaten) is way way up there.

Hopkins
Mayweather
Chavez
Trinidad
Pacquiao

People disregard him as he had a tendency to lose his biggest fights, and because he was a bit of a 'poster boy' He always rose to the challenge, beat some true ATGs and brought a lot of popularity to the game. Definitely top 100 ATG.

IronDanHamza
02-01-2012, 01:20 PM
Oscar's resume (in terms of who hes faced, not necessarily who he's beaten) is way way up there.

Hopkins
Mayweather
Chavez
Trinidad
Pacquiao

People disregard him as he had a tendency to lose his biggest fights, and because he was a bit of a 'poster boy' He always rose to the challenge, beat some true ATGs and brought a lot of popularity to the game. Definitely top 100 ATG.

He clearly lost to 3 of them, arguably lost to 4 of them and the one he did win was against a guy who was more than past it.

Who he faced was great, yes. But, what does that mean? Why does it matter who he faced? Do you get ATG status for fighting the best? Or beating the best? Is Oakland Billy Smith an ATG? His "resume" for "who he faced" blows Oscar's out the water.

Why not just put his resume of wins? Instead of a list of great fighters that he lost to?

I'd say it's because if you put a list of his best wins it doesn't really support his case for ATG status.

IronDanHamza
02-01-2012, 01:22 PM
I never said Pacquiao was a top 100 atg and De La Hoya wasn't. I'm not prepared to make an all time top 100 list.

What I did say was that I ranked Pacquiao higher than I ranked Del La Hoya. Forget all the cherry-picking and the catch-weight bull**** of last few years and just remember how good he was beating Morales, Barrera and JMM (only their last fight was a robbery, I count his 1st victory over Marguez as genuine)

And I did say that De La Hoya was top 10 in the last 20 years, that's not much of an insult is it?

It's more than generous.

Manny Pacquaio is obviously a greater fighter than Oscar.

Not even debatable.

New England
02-01-2012, 01:33 PM
http://www.nodeju.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/oscar-de-la-hoya-in-stockings.jpg



the impact of this can't get overstated


personally i try and keep it from getting in the way of evaluating the guy, but you can see how that might be difficult for some and impossible for others


i mean just look at the picture on the left.
that's got to have something to do with some of it.

Barn
02-01-2012, 04:55 PM
http://www.nodeju.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/oscar-de-la-hoya-in-stockings.jpg



the impact of this can't get overstated


personally i try and keep it from getting in the way of evaluating the guy, but you can see how that might be difficult for some and impossible for others


i mean just look at the picture on the left.
that's got to have something to do with some of it.
I dropped him 20 places after seeing that.

McGoorty
02-07-2012, 11:47 AM
I mean seriously, can you really name 100 boxers with greater career acheivments and a greater resume than Oscar? You would be hardpressed to find even 60-75 fighters more accomplished than Oscar.

Discuss.
seriously, there probably is 120 who were better,, or at least proved it amongst better competition, I concede that he was good but,,, but there is an enormous number of great and fantastic fighters to consider,, and too many dont consider enough of them,, it takes years and years of accumulated knowledge to have heard of them all, also,, that fishnet stocking thing he got polaroided in,, has gotta drop him down the list a bit,, I mean,, come on.

69Lover
02-07-2012, 12:39 PM
I do also see him as a borderline ATG. He was lucky to have the golden boy image, the looks and some charisma. I really hate this kind of qualities when it comes to boxing and fighting, but it is important for the business side of boxing and for the Americans. Personaly I do not like him or guys like him (Ray Leonard), because the agenda they have while coming to the ring and making fights possible. As a fighter you always have to fight another invisible foe, but your stand alone in the ring.

But he would have been a bigger name if he wouldn't go up to 154, which was the same mistake Mosley and RJJ did.

MJ223
02-07-2012, 03:17 PM
Hof'er yes ATG NO

BigStereotype
02-07-2012, 05:01 PM
I wouldn't consider him a top 100 guy, which is my soft cutoff for "ATG." Am I going to take the time to list out 100 fighters better than him? Hell no, but my gut feeling is that he's not.

TheMelvern
02-07-2012, 05:06 PM
Oscar De La Hoya is a sure ATG boxer. If some one says he is not than they either have an agenda against him or they dont know what they are talking about.

Jack Napier
02-07-2012, 05:08 PM
DLH is a HOF'er for sure, but he is not an ATG
the guy lost too many of the fights that really mattered for him
the guys he beat weren't as good as the guys he lost too
people put too much emphasis on belt collection

TheMelvern
02-07-2012, 05:19 PM
DLH is a HOF'er for sure, but he is not an ATG
the guy lost too many of the fights that really mattered for him
the guys he beat weren't as good as the guys he lost too
people put too much emphasis on belt collectionPeople put too much emphasis on losses.

F l i c k e r
02-07-2012, 05:21 PM
He's an ATG. Stop hatin.

Jack Napier
02-07-2012, 05:23 PM
People put too much emphasis on losses.

having a great resume is nice
having a great record against the names on that resume is better

TheMelvern
02-07-2012, 05:33 PM
having a great resume is nice
having a great record against the names on that resume is betterI dont hate Oscar, cant say the same for most of this forum whether it be because of his fishnet scandal, his personality, or something else. The guy is an ATG. You say people place too much emphasis on belt collection, well do you remember what people every where started saying when Pacquiao passed up Oscar for that 7th division? Why is Pacquiao so great? First thing people say is "won titles in 8 divisions, who else has done that?" Some times people put too much emphasis on names. Pacquiaos stock started sky rocketing from the De La Hoya fight, the main thing that looks good on his resume from the De La Hoya fight and on is the names. Having a great record against names can be deceiving.

BigStereotype
02-07-2012, 05:38 PM
I dont hate Oscar, cant say the same for most of this forum whether it be because of his fishnet scandal, his personality, or something else. The guy is an ATG. You say people place too much emphasis on belt collection, well do you remember what people every where started saying when Pacquiao passed up Oscar for that 7th division? Why is Pacquiao so great? First thing people say is "won titles in 8 divisions, who else has done that?" Some times people put too much emphasis on names. Pacquiaos stock started sky rocketing from the De La Hoya fight, the main thing that looks good on his resume from the De La Hoya fight and on is the names. Having a great record against names can be deceiving.

Pacquiao's greatness is mostly from his explosive wins at the lower weights. The weight climbing is just gravy. Anyone who says otherwise just doesn't get it.

Jack Napier
02-07-2012, 05:39 PM
I dont hate Oscar, cant say the same for most of this forum whether it be because of his fishnet scandal, his personality, or something else. The guy is an ATG. You say people place too much emphasis on belt collection, well do you remember what people every where started saying when Pacquiao passed up Oscar for that 7th division? Why is Pacquiao so great? First thing people say is "won titles in 8 divisions, who else has done that?" Some times people put too much emphasis on names. Pacquiaos stock started sky rocketing from the De La Hoya fight, the main thing that looks good on his resume from the De La Hoya fight and on is the names. Having a great record against names can be deceiving.

only johnny come latelys say that **** about the belts
Pac's rep rests on what he did at 126-130, the rest is extra garnish
and what good is fighting all the best names if you lose to them?
it's not a crime for Oscar to have lost the fights he lost
the guys who beat him are great in their own right
but we're talking about ATG status, being called one of the best ever
you can't get it if you lose more really big fights than you win

CarlosG815
02-07-2012, 06:05 PM
If Oscar doesn't make the ATG cut, then there are a lot of guys who don't make the cut.

Oscar is an ATG.

His record has all the who's who on it and regardless of bogus judging I think we need to consider that he did indeed beat Tito and he should also have a W over a Shane Mosley who was nonetheless abusing steroids at the time that he was defeated.

TheMelvern
02-08-2012, 03:45 AM
only johnny come latelys say that **** about the belts
Pac's rep rests on what he did at 126-130, the rest is extra garnish
and what good is fighting all the best names if you lose to them?
it's not a crime for Oscar to have lost the fights he lost
the guys who beat him are great in their own right
but we're talking about ATG status, being called one of the best ever
you can't get it if you lose more really big fights than you winThe hype exploded after the De La Hoya fight. Pacquiao was considered an ATG for beating Barrera(good win), getting out boxed by a fading(they thought) Morales he was supposed to beat and rematching the right versions of Morales, then getting a draw along with a controversial SD against JMM...you clearly have an agenda against De La Hoya along with so many other people. Lets face it, Pacquiao at 126-130 is an ATG, Barrera is an ATG, Morales is an ATG, but De La Hoya is not because he was the "golden boy" and he wore fishnets. Even in his losses he gave good performances, barring 2 of course. Prime, healthy De La Hoya could throw it down with any one and he was a top of the line boxer from the amateurs, to the pros. You have to recognize his level of skill. To each their own I guess.

BigStereotype
02-08-2012, 04:27 AM
If Oscar doesn't make the ATG cut, then there are a lot of guys who don't make the cut.

Oscar is an ATG.

His record has all the who's who on it and regardless of bogus judging I think we need to consider that he did indeed beat Tito and he should also have a W over a Shane Mosley who was nonetheless abusing steroids at the time that he was defeated.

Yeah, that about sums it up.

Flo_Raiden
02-08-2012, 03:02 PM
I think people also have to remember how much of an impact Oscar did to boxing. I don't see why people wouldn't place him as an ATG. He's a first ballot HoF and an ATG fighter IMO, just a notch below other great fighters he's fought such as Whitaker, Chavez, B-Hop, Mayweather, and Pacquiao. I think he rates higher than Trinidad and Mosley.
The guy had a little bit 'SRL' aura in him at a time.

Scott9945
02-08-2012, 05:09 PM
I think people also have to remember how much of an impact Oscar did to boxing. I don't see why people wouldn't place him as an ATG. He's a first ballot HoF and an ATG fighter IMO, just a notch below other great fighters he's fought such as Whitaker, Chavez, B-Hop, Mayweather, and Pacquiao. I think he rates higher than Trinidad and Mosley.
The guy had a little bit 'SRL' aura in him at a time.

No doubt that DLH is an ATG box office attraction. The only two of those other ATG's he beat were on the decline when he fought them. Even if he does rate higher than Trinidad or Mosley, that still leaves him well short of being an ATG. De La Hoya was a well promoted fighter who either failed or barely won his biggest fights. Unless you want to count Vargas as anything special.

Barn
02-08-2012, 05:49 PM
Just watched the Quartey fight and De La Hoya definitely lost that one in my eyes.

CarlosG815
02-08-2012, 07:44 PM
Just watched the Quartey fight and De La Hoya definitely lost that one in my eyes.

What was your card?

Barn
02-09-2012, 03:54 AM
What was your card?
1 Round Quartey. I didn't think many of the rounds were that close though. Most of the time whoever won, won decisively.

bojangles1987
02-09-2012, 08:01 AM
Just watched the Quartey fight and De La Hoya definitely lost that one in my eyes.

Agreed. Pretty sure Quartey won like 5 or 6 straight rounds at one point the last time I watched that fight. I thought it was a screwjob.

CarlosG815
02-09-2012, 10:47 AM
1 Round Quartey. I didn't think many of the rounds were that close though. Most of the time whoever won, won decisively.

I meant which rounds like a round by round

Barn
02-09-2012, 11:32 AM
I meant which rounds like a round by round

Oh right.

1. Oscar
2. Quartey
3. Oscar
4. Quartey
5. Quartey
6. Quartey
7. Quartey
8. Quartey
9. Quartey
10. Hoya
11. Quartey
12. Hoya 10-8.

Sure it was very similar or the same as Letterman's. One of the rare times I've agreed with him.

114-113.

CarlosG815
02-09-2012, 01:23 PM
I had it scored

Oscar Ike
1 10 9
2 10 9
3 10 9
4 10 9
5 9 10
6 9 10
7 9 10
8 10 9
9 9 10
10 10 9
11 10 10
12 10 8

Both went down in the 6th and I scored that round for Ike. I had Oscar a clear winner in that fight as I felt that Ike did not do near enough and when he did exchange he was coming up on the shorter end with the 11th round even.

116 112 Oscar. Even if you give Ike the 11th in my book he still loses. 7 rounds to 4 with 1 even.

I have watched this fight closely several times and just can't give it to Ike. I was happy he didn't give him a rematch, Ike definitely does not come to put on a show, although I do think he's a very good fighter. 1 time was enough for me.

Barn
02-09-2012, 03:55 PM
I had it scored

Oscar Ike
1 10 9
2 10 9
3 10 9
4 10 9
5 9 10
6 9 10
7 9 10
8 10 9
9 9 10
10 10 9
11 10 10
12 10 8

Both went down in the 6th and I scored that round for Ike. I had Oscar a clear winner in that fight as I felt that Ike did not do near enough and when he did exchange he was coming up on the shorter end with the 11th round even.

116 112 Oscar. Even if you give Ike the 11th in my book he still loses. 7 rounds to 4 with 1 even.

I have watched this fight closely several times and just can't give it to Ike. I was happy he didn't give him a rematch, Ike definitely does not come to put on a show, although I do think he's a very good fighter. 1 time was enough for me.
I guess it's just judging styles. I prefer a boxer who controls the round over the power punches who lands a hard flurry here and there. I think Brits are famous for that.

And yeah, I had heard the words "great" fight. Apart from rounds 6 and 12 it was so-so. Still enjoyed it though.

Clegg
02-09-2012, 05:08 PM
They're not pretending.

wmute
02-09-2012, 05:18 PM
They're not pretending.

This ^^^

As many other said First Ballot HOF, but ATG hell no...

as for the girly ****... who cares? Emile Griffith liked it up the ass... so what?

Barn
02-09-2012, 05:31 PM
This ^^^

As many other said First Ballot HOF, but ATG hell no...

as for the girly ****... who cares? Emile Griffith liked it up the ass... so what?
In other news wmute isn't big on subtlety. :lol1:

wmute
02-09-2012, 06:47 PM
In other news wmute isn't big on subtlety. :lol1:

yeah that is not my forte lol

Ray Corso
02-12-2012, 01:50 PM
Good boxer with lots of tools but he never finished his biggest fights with determination to win. He didn't seem to have the focus the great fighters have. He was not a chance taker more of a play it safe boxer, to bad! He actually had a few of his defeats in hand to win but he refused to finish them strong. Something upstairs wasn't right I think he had pride and guts but lacked that willingness to finish. Too bad a nice kid!!! Not a Great Fighter! Ray

Barn
02-12-2012, 01:55 PM
Good boxer with lots of tools but he never finished his biggest fights with determination to win. He didn't seem to have the focus the great fighters have. He was not a chance taker more of a play it safe boxer, to bad! He actually had a few of his defeats in hand to win but he refused to finish them strong. Something upstairs wasn't right I think he had pride and guts but lacked that willingness to finish. Too bad a nice kid!!! Not a Great Fighter! Ray

Surely those statements are quite contradictory.

I don't know how you can't see the focus in Hoya's eyes when he's fighting. Very calculated and stuck to a gameplan well.

He finished the Ike Quartey fight well, just because his corner told him he was fine against Trinidad when he wasn't. I would put that down to experience over being mentally deficient.

Ziggy Stardust
02-12-2012, 02:42 PM
This ^^^

As many other said First Ballot HOF, but ATG hell no...

as for the girly ****... who cares? Emile Griffith liked it up the ass... so what?

In other news wmute isn't big on subtlety. :lol1:

The lack of subtlety is one of his endearing qualities :chuckle9:

Poet

Ray Corso
02-12-2012, 03:47 PM
Its ok by me if you don't see what I see. I'm very pleased that I don't see what you see. I'm looking for expressions that lead to action just to explain a little of what I'm looking for. One fight that might be good to great doesn't make a great fighter, all of his last defeats I thought he could have won, he didn't make the ultimate effort in my eyes thats all. My experience and longevity gives much more to choose from in comparison to you so its all ok. I have a much larger canvas to draw from than you do it doesn't make my opinion any more or less than yours but it does offord me more to choose from. It could make my choices more difficult but it does allow a huge screen of comparisons not just with known fighters but all the fellows I've watched on prelim bouts who never got to a famous position because of one draw back or another. Theres been alot of real talent that just couldn't get there, life is hard! Ray Corso

Barn
02-12-2012, 04:19 PM
Its ok by me if you don't see what I see. I'm very pleased that I don't see what you see. I'm looking for expressions that lead to action just to explain a little of what I'm looking for. One fight that might be good to great doesn't make a great fighter, all of his last defeats I thought he could have won, he didn't make the ultimate effort in my eyes thats all. My experience and longevity gives much more to choose from in comparison to you so its all ok. I have a much larger canvas to draw from than you do it doesn't make my opinion any more or less than yours but it does offord me more to choose from. It could make my choices more difficult but it does allow a huge screen of comparisons not just with known fighters but all the fellows I've watched on prelim bouts who never got to a famous position because of one draw back or another. Theres been alot of real talent that just couldn't get there, life is hard! Ray Corso
:fing02: ..

IronDanHamza
02-12-2012, 06:54 PM
Its ok by me if you don't see what I see. I'm very pleased that I don't see what you see. I'm looking for expressions that lead to action just to explain a little of what I'm looking for. One fight that might be good to great doesn't make a great fighter, all of his last defeats I thought he could have won, he didn't make the ultimate effort in my eyes thats all. My experience and longevity gives much more to choose from in comparison to you so its all ok. I have a much larger canvas to draw from than you do it doesn't make my opinion any more or less than yours but it does offord me more to choose from. It could make my choices more difficult but it does allow a huge screen of comparisons not just with known fighters but all the fellows I've watched on prelim bouts who never got to a famous position because of one draw back or another. Theres been alot of real talent that just couldn't get there, life is hard! Ray Corso

How's the weather up there on that pedestal? Dry?

Come off your high horse, and stop judging everyone in here as if you know them.

You keep referring to everyone as "Kid's", well guess what? The majority of us here in this forum are fossils ourselves.

And why does age even matter? Mike Tyson knew more about the history of the sport than this entire forum put together when he was a still 19-20 year old kid.

Ray Corso
02-12-2012, 07:14 PM
Enough of this BS I knew Mike when he was 14, I handled him with Teddy in his JO regional and nationals. Why the hell should I apologize or speak any differently about my career if its directed at you then respond if your the veteran you say you are stop cryin. I don't need to defend myself about my life if you don't like what I have to say ignore me ok. Just stop being a lil ***** and move on!! You see boxing was my life not a hobby and I came here to share some of my experiences and when I hear statements that I think are BS I'm saying so if you say something I don't agree I'll AVOID you. I didn't come to get in pissing matches with a few fans who try and control segments of this forum. What I forgot you'll never know! Ray Corso

Barn
02-12-2012, 07:31 PM
enough of this bs i knew mike when he was 14, i handled him with teddy in his jo regional and nationals. Why the hell should i apologize or speak any differently about my career if its directed at you then respond if your the veteran you say you are stop cryin. I don't need to defend myself about my life if you don't like what i have to say ignore me ok. Just stop being a lil ***** and move on!! You see boxing was my life not a hobby and i came here to share some of my experiences and when i hear statements that i think are bs i'm saying so if you say something i don't agree i'll avoid you. I didn't come to get in pissing matches with a few fans who try and control segments of this forum. What i forgot you'll never know! Ray corso
sonnyboy returns

IronDanHamza
02-12-2012, 07:43 PM
sonnyboy returns

I don't think it's Sonny.

Is there a way of checking the IP addresses? I'm sure certain mod's have the sufficient tools to check IP addresses to see who is who's Alt.

Either way, I don't think it's Sonny. Despite his differences with others on this forum Sonny and I have always been cool and respectful to each other on here.

New England
02-12-2012, 08:09 PM
Enough of this BS I knew Mike when he was 14, I handled him with Teddy in his JO regional and nationals. Why the hell should I apologize or speak any differently about my career if its directed at you then respond if your the veteran you say you are stop cryin. I don't need to defend myself about my life if you don't like what I have to say ignore me ok. Just stop being a lil ***** and move on!! You see boxing was my life not a hobby and I came here to share some of my experiences and when I hear statements that I think are BS I'm saying so if you say something I don't agree I'll AVOID you. I didn't come to get in pissing matches with a few fans who try and control segments of this forum. What I forgot you'll never know! Ray Corso



ray caruso

the best who ever did it

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OQt9x-GZQ8g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


and if you're being serious at this stage i'd suggest thinking about another avenue for "teaching" people about boxing.


this sport is subjective.
people will disagree with you, and they're qualified to disagree with you. many of the members here have been following boxing for decades.

Scott9945
02-12-2012, 08:54 PM
I don't think it's Sonny.

Is there a way of checking the IP addresses? I'm sure certain mod's have the sufficient tools to check IP addresses to see who is who's Alt.

Either way, I don't think it's Sonny. Despite his differences with others on this forum Sonny and I have always been cool and respectful to each other on here.

Definitely not Sonny. Different style and different targets.

BigStereotype
02-12-2012, 09:06 PM
Enough of this BS I knew Mike when he was 14, I handled him with Teddy in his JO regional and nationals. Why the hell should I apologize or speak any differently about my career if its directed at you then respond if your the veteran you say you are stop cryin. I don't need to defend myself about my life if you don't like what I have to say ignore me ok. Just stop being a lil ***** and move on!! You see boxing was my life not a hobby and I came here to share some of my experiences and when I hear statements that I think are BS I'm saying so if you say something I don't agree I'll AVOID you. I didn't come to get in pissing matches with a few fans who try and control segments of this forum. What I forgot you'll never know! Ray Corso

I heard that Ray Corso's biceps are actually dicks and all three are 18" long.