View Full Version : Joe Frazier vs Prime Evander Holyfield


Evil Abed
01-27-2012, 03:07 PM
Interesting fight.

With a ton of fireworks.

Who wins?

http://georgiainfo.galileo.usg.edu/tdgh-nov/Evander%20Holyfield.jpg
VS
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-zOrAL1V5Jg/TTikfCHgvOI/AAAAAAAAJL8/QjbgmkInnv8/s1600/joe+frazier+boxer+1.jpg

Ziggy Stardust
01-27-2012, 03:20 PM
First class punch-out with Frazier outworking Holyfield down the stretch to eek out a close decision. There's very few Heavies I'd pick to outwork Holy.....Frazier's one of them.

Poet

Evil Abed
01-27-2012, 03:26 PM
Paulie Malignaggi @PaulMalignaggi
@TheFightSource hmmm good one...frazier

-2 Scrappy-
01-27-2012, 03:31 PM
Damn good fight between i think two of the most underrated heavyweights of all time. I think head to head they both beat Holmes who people have at #2 and 3 of all time.

Damn good match up. Evander is a terrible match up for guys like tyson and frazier since he's the bully on the inside. But unlike tyson frazier is a cardio machine who would keep throwing this would be a ATG classic fight that will be very controversially scored with a split decision victor imo. Depends whose night it is on that specific night. If they fought 10x i think they'd win 5 a piece.

Ziggy Stardust
01-27-2012, 03:39 PM
Damn good fight between i think two of the most underrated heavyweights of all time. I think head to head they both beat Holmes who people have at #2 and 3 of all time.

Damn good match up. Evander is a terrible match up for guys like tyson and frazier since he's the bully on the inside. But unlike tyson frazier is a cardio machine who would keep throwing this would be a ATG classic fight that will be very controversially scored with a split decision victor imo. Depends whose night it is on that specific night. If they fought 10x i think they'd win 5 a piece.

In this matchup it's Frazier who's the bully on the inside. Tyson was never an inside fighter and never liked being in there. Inside is Frazier's home turf. Evander's best bet is to try and force a mid-range fight and give Joe angles. Make Joe reach to land the left hook and counter over the top with right hands. Easier said than done, though, even for Evander.

Poet

-2 Scrappy-
01-27-2012, 03:47 PM
In this matchup it's Frazier who's the bully on the inside. Tyson was never an inside fighter and never liked being in there. Inside is Frazier's home turf. Evander's best bet is to try and force a mid-range fight and give Joe angles. Make Joe reach to land the left hook and counter over the top with right hands. Easier said than done, though, even for Evander.

Poet

Evander has that Hopkins craft though of making it real messy on the inside. And with evander I think being the bigger guy I think what makes this close is Evander holding and headbutting on the inside which will help him create some distance to box which we both agree he wins that kind of fight. But Frazier like I said sick ass cardio will keep coming since he's a master of cutting you off so the times evander does have to box hed have to make the most of them.

Ziggy Stardust
01-27-2012, 03:54 PM
Evander has that Hopkins craft though of making it real messy on the inside. And with evander I think being the bigger guy I think what makes this close is Evander holding and headbutting on the inside which will help him create some distance to box which we both agree he wins that kind of fight. But Frazier like I said sick ass cardio will keep coming since he's a master of cutting you off so the times evander does have to box hed have to make the most of them.

You know, Evander's best weapon against Frazier other then the counter right might well be the right hand lead in lieu of the jab. It would allow him to get some shots in before Frazier can get into his ribcage. Still, I see this as being a classic war where the winner is the guy that puts in the most work. No early KOs that's for sure.

Poet

bojangles1987
01-27-2012, 04:03 PM
As even a fight at heavyweight as I can imagine. I'd go Frazier by decision just off bias.

Sugarj
01-27-2012, 05:10 PM
Damn good fight between i think two of the most underrated heavyweights of all time. I think head to head they both beat Holmes who people have at #2 and 3 of all time.

Damn good match up. Evander is a terrible match up for guys like tyson and frazier since he's the bully on the inside. But unlike tyson frazier is a cardio machine who would keep throwing this would be a ATG classic fight that will be very controversially scored with a split decision victor imo. Depends whose night it is on that specific night. If they fought 10x i think they'd win 5 a piece.


I don't know about prime Holyfield beating prime Holmes.

Prime Holyfield met grandfather Holmes and had a tough night, certainly lost a few rounds too. If you'd imagine a 12 years younger Holmes in there with Holyfield, the result is a no brainer.

Sugarj
01-27-2012, 05:20 PM
As for Frazier vs Holyfield: Over 12 rounds I'll eak a close decision win for Holyfield, over 15 I'd sway to a close decision for Frazier.

Prime Frazier is near as dammit impossible to decision over 15 rounds (I struggle to think of a heavyweight who could; Dempsey? Marciano? Possibly, but I wouldn't be at all confident). Obviously If you punch like Foreman you can knock Frazier out, but I don't think Holyfield has quite enough firepower to do this.

I sway to a 12 round decision for Holyfield simply because Frazier was in comparison a slow starter. I think that Holyfield would rack up enough rounds early and maybe a couple late to steal it......but Frazier would only be getting warmed up by round 12. In comparison Holyfield never fought 15 rounds as a heavyweight......so we don't know quite how he would handle those extra 3 rounds above cruiserweight.

IronDanHamza
01-27-2012, 06:39 PM
All I know is in the inside battle would be a joy to watch.

Mannie Phresh
01-27-2012, 07:01 PM
Frazier decision victory.

Boxing Bob
01-27-2012, 09:31 PM
Evander is one of my top 3 all time favorites, but I'd give the nod to Joe here on a small advantage in hand speed. Joe would be one of the few guys who could take punishment as well as Evander. If Evander got on his toes and jabbed Joe all night and refused to engage on the inside, I could see him winning a decision. The problem is I can never remember Holyfield fighting this way.

And by the way, I don't think either could beat a prime Holmes

Barnburner
01-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Joe Frazier 15 round UD.

Frazier would probably get tagged a lot by a smart Evander at the beginning, some of his combos were really nice. However as it became harder and the fight worn on Holyfield would begin to get caught up in the trenches and fight on the inside where he's been before but, it's not his homeland.

Fraizer works hard down the stretch to bring home the UD in a close but, clear fight.

Scott9945
01-27-2012, 09:47 PM
This is a dream matchup as their styles would blend perfectly for great action at the highest level. Holy gets an edge for boxing while Joe gets the nod for power. I could make a case for either guy winning, and a better case for why this would be the best heavyweight fight ever.

Capaedia
01-27-2012, 10:17 PM
Only forecast for this one is it's not ending by RTD

F l i c k e r
01-27-2012, 11:04 PM
Honestly, I don't know who'd win. I'd want Holyfield to win but I don't know. :lol1:

them_apples
01-28-2012, 02:27 AM
First class punch-out with Frazier outworking Holyfield down the stretch to eek out a close decision. There's very few Heavies I'd pick to outwork Holy.....Frazier's one of them.

Poet

early rounds go to Holy, late rounds to Frazier. I see Frazier winning with the kind of work he would put in. Possible Late stoppage. We talking Prime Frazier, and I think Holyfield style would not fair so well against Frazier, whome I think would welcome Holyfields style. Frazier knocked out much bigger men than Holyfield, Hell he even downed Ali and looked as though he were to stop him at one point.

A Ud is the safest bet though.

them_apples
01-28-2012, 02:32 AM
This is a dream matchup as their styles would blend perfectly for great action at the highest level. Holy gets an edge for boxing while Joe gets the nod for power. I could make a case for either guy winning, and a better case for why this would be the best heavyweight fight ever.

Honestly though, power is close. A lot of Fraziers power was from repetition, Holyfield on the other hand is just straight up underrated in the banging department. Ask Foreman.

GoogleMe
01-28-2012, 04:32 AM
Holyfield is the greater fighter. Based on Holyfields resume, he's met more that fights like Frazier than the other way around.

Holyfield would win in the late rounds or a clear decision.

Sugarj
01-28-2012, 11:02 AM
Evander is one of my top 3 all time favorites, but I'd give the nod to Joe here on a small advantage in hand speed. Joe would be one of the few guys who could take punishment as well as Evander. If Evander got on his toes and jabbed Joe all night and refused to engage on the inside, I could see him winning a decision. The problem is I can never remember Holyfield fighting this way.

And by the way, I don't think either could beat a prime Holmes


Joe doesn't have a handspeed advantage over prime 1990-1992 Holyfield. Prime Holyfield's handspeed is a different league to Frazier.

Holyfield's was only a minute shade slower than Patterson, Ali or Tyson. Frazier has never been thought of as possessing particularly fast hands.

I'd watch some of their fights if I were you and gauge for yourself......

Scott9945
01-28-2012, 11:09 AM
Honestly though, power is close. A lot of Fraziers power was from repetition, Holyfield on the other hand is just straight up underrated in the banging department. Ask Foreman.

I agree, it's closer than most people would think.

The Surgeon
01-28-2012, 12:03 PM
This is one i often think about, it might well be the best action fight possible to put together in the HW division.

People tend to think Evander beat up Tyson so he'd do the same to the similar sized Frazier who was also aggressive (totally different fighters though) but then they skim over the absolute Hell "Smokin" Bert Cooper gave him...

Both guys can crack (Evander is a way under rated puncher) and both guys are crazy tough with among the best engines the division has ever seen, we would be in for non stop action fellas!

I can see Holyfield trying to box to begin with but Evander was never an out and out cutie and Frazier brought such pressure.... within a couple of rounds Holyfield would realise boxing wouldnt be enough and Joe would drag him into a war (a winnable war), i like Frazier's inside game a bit better, his power a shade more and his heart a bit more too. Holyfield had the type of combinations that could really have rattled Joe and got him going but im going to say Frazier takes it over 12-15 on a close but clear UD in an absolute CLASSIC

res
01-28-2012, 12:15 PM
I don't know about prime Holyfield beating prime Holmes.

Prime Holyfield met grandfather Holmes and had a tough night, certainly lost a few rounds too. If you'd imagine a 12 years younger Holmes in there with Holyfield, the result is a no brainer.

Yeah, I favor Holmes in that match up, I don't see what Holy's advantage would be here. He doesn't have extraordinary power, prime Holmes does have an extraordinary chin, and Holmes clearly beats him on the outside. Holmes isn't going to volunteer to brawl with Holyfeild too much.

As for Holy and Frazier, I favor Frazier. I agree with the assessment of Holy outboxing Frazier early on, but being pulled into a brawl as the fight wears on.

bojangles1987
01-28-2012, 04:42 PM
This is one i often think about, it might well be the best action fight possible to put together in the HW division.

People tend to think Evander beat up Tyson so he'd do the same to the similar sized Frazier who was also aggressive (totally different fighters though) but then they skim over the absolute Hell "Smokin" Bert Cooper gave him...

Both guys can crack (Evander is a way under rated puncher) and both guys are crazy tough with among the best engines the division has ever seen, we would be in for non stop action fellas!

I can see Holyfield trying to box to begin with but Evander was never an out and out cutie and Frazier brought such pressure.... within a couple of rounds Holyfield would realise boxing wouldnt be enough and Joe would drag him into a war (a winnable war), i like Frazier's inside game a bit better, his power a shade more and his heart a bit more too. Holyfield had the type of combinations that could really have rattled Joe and got him going but im going to say Frazier takes it over 12-15 on a close but clear UD in an absolute CLASSIC

I know it was a far younger Holyfield and Qawi isn't the same as Joe Frazier, but I wonder how much it would resemble the first Holyfield-Qawi fight. Would Evander try that hard to box Frazier, or would he go to war right away? Would Frazier get to a worn down Holyfield like Qawi couldn't?

them_apples
01-30-2012, 03:49 PM
Joe doesn't have a handspeed advantage over prime 1990-1992 Holyfield. Prime Holyfield's handspeed is a different league to Frazier.

Holyfield's was only a minute shade slower than Patterson, Ali or Tyson. Frazier has never been thought of as possessing particularly fast hands.

I'd watch some of their fights if I were you and gauge for yourself......

actually, In his prime I'd say Joe does. He wouldn't put combinations together like Evander, so depending on what you define as hand speed, he could be quicker.

Frazier would often only throw 1 or 2 shots in combination, but the velocity was quite fast. Very fast. Pretty much half the reason he gave Ali the work he did.

Sugarj
01-30-2012, 06:17 PM
actually, In his prime I'd say Joe does. He wouldn't put combinations together like Evander, so depending on what you define as hand speed, he could be quicker.

Frazier would often only throw 1 or 2 shots in combination, but the velocity was quite fast. Very fast. Pretty much half the reason he gave Ali the work he did.


I'd have said this is a no brainer based on their respective fights.

Frazier was no slouch in the handspeed department, I'd never say that.......but in comparison to 1990-1992 Holyfield, whether single punches or combinations this is no contest to my eyes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Frazier fan and over 15 rounds I'd pick him to outpoint Holy. But did he have faster hands? No chance!

DarkTerror88
01-30-2012, 09:39 PM
Frazier grinds him down to a stoppage or a UD if Evander holds on. I might go on later as i have a great picture in my mind as how this plays out.

Im kind of adopting Chicago as my home town now so i will borrow something from Derrick Rose, "Bigger, stronger faster and better than you!" i think Frazier's body work, superior tempo, and better stamina allow him to outwork and really beat up Holyfield in the later rounds.

them_apples
01-31-2012, 03:31 AM
I'd have said this is a no brainer based on their respective fights.

Frazier was no slouch in the handspeed department, I'd never say that.......but in comparison to 1990-1992 Holyfield, whether single punches or combinations this is no contest to my eyes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Frazier fan and over 15 rounds I'd pick him to outpoint Holy. But did he have faster hands? No chance!

perhaps you are correct. I'll have to review. I do remember prime Holy having fast fuggin hands though. Frazier in Ali vs Frazier 1 was blazing however.

Sugarj
01-31-2012, 05:31 AM
perhaps you are correct. I'll have to review. I do remember prime Holy having fast fuggin hands though. Frazier in Ali vs Frazier 1 was blazing however.


I'm pretty sure when the modern heavyweights were ranked in terms of handspeed Patterson was found to have the fastest left, Ali the fastest right and both Tyson and Holyfield were judged to be roughly equal. Don't quote me but I think it was touched on in Gerald Suster's book.

No mention was made of other notable guys with fast hands like Holmes, Louis or Weaver. Frazier wasn't included either. Strangely......I'd actually rank prime Joe Bugner as having really fast hands in the early 70s.

As for Ali vs Frazier 1. Frazier's left hook was so quick and ludicrously accurate. It was like a heat seeking missile that night....ha ha

Val Head
01-31-2012, 08:49 AM
Evander got schooled on the insiude by Bowe and we all know who the P4p inside fighter is on this one