View Full Version : Joe Frazier vs Prime Evander Holyfield


Evil Abed
01-27-2012, 03:07 PM
Interesting fight.

With a ton of fireworks.

Who wins?

http://georgiainfo.galileo.usg.edu/tdgh-nov/Evander%20Holyfield.jpg
VS
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-zOrAL1V5Jg/TTikfCHgvOI/AAAAAAAAJL8/QjbgmkInnv8/s1600/joe+frazier+boxer+1.jpg

Ziggy Stardust
01-27-2012, 03:20 PM
First class punch-out with Frazier outworking Holyfield down the stretch to eek out a close decision. There's very few Heavies I'd pick to outwork Holy.....Frazier's one of them.

Poet

Evil Abed
01-27-2012, 03:26 PM
Paulie Malignaggi @PaulMalignaggi
@TheFightSource hmmm good one...frazier

-2 Scrappy-
01-27-2012, 03:31 PM
Damn good fight between i think two of the most underrated heavyweights of all time. I think head to head they both beat Holmes who people have at #2 and 3 of all time.

Damn good match up. Evander is a terrible match up for guys like tyson and frazier since he's the bully on the inside. But unlike tyson frazier is a cardio machine who would keep throwing this would be a ATG classic fight that will be very controversially scored with a split decision victor imo. Depends whose night it is on that specific night. If they fought 10x i think they'd win 5 a piece.

Ziggy Stardust
01-27-2012, 03:39 PM
Damn good fight between i think two of the most underrated heavyweights of all time. I think head to head they both beat Holmes who people have at #2 and 3 of all time.

Damn good match up. Evander is a terrible match up for guys like tyson and frazier since he's the bully on the inside. But unlike tyson frazier is a cardio machine who would keep throwing this would be a ATG classic fight that will be very controversially scored with a split decision victor imo. Depends whose night it is on that specific night. If they fought 10x i think they'd win 5 a piece.

In this matchup it's Frazier who's the bully on the inside. Tyson was never an inside fighter and never liked being in there. Inside is Frazier's home turf. Evander's best bet is to try and force a mid-range fight and give Joe angles. Make Joe reach to land the left hook and counter over the top with right hands. Easier said than done, though, even for Evander.

Poet

-2 Scrappy-
01-27-2012, 03:47 PM
In this matchup it's Frazier who's the bully on the inside. Tyson was never an inside fighter and never liked being in there. Inside is Frazier's home turf. Evander's best bet is to try and force a mid-range fight and give Joe angles. Make Joe reach to land the left hook and counter over the top with right hands. Easier said than done, though, even for Evander.

Poet

Evander has that Hopkins craft though of making it real messy on the inside. And with evander I think being the bigger guy I think what makes this close is Evander holding and headbutting on the inside which will help him create some distance to box which we both agree he wins that kind of fight. But Frazier like I said sick ass cardio will keep coming since he's a master of cutting you off so the times evander does have to box hed have to make the most of them.

Ziggy Stardust
01-27-2012, 03:54 PM
Evander has that Hopkins craft though of making it real messy on the inside. And with evander I think being the bigger guy I think what makes this close is Evander holding and headbutting on the inside which will help him create some distance to box which we both agree he wins that kind of fight. But Frazier like I said sick ass cardio will keep coming since he's a master of cutting you off so the times evander does have to box hed have to make the most of them.

You know, Evander's best weapon against Frazier other then the counter right might well be the right hand lead in lieu of the jab. It would allow him to get some shots in before Frazier can get into his ribcage. Still, I see this as being a classic war where the winner is the guy that puts in the most work. No early KOs that's for sure.

Poet

bojangles1987
01-27-2012, 04:03 PM
As even a fight at heavyweight as I can imagine. I'd go Frazier by decision just off bias.

Sugarj
01-27-2012, 05:10 PM
Damn good fight between i think two of the most underrated heavyweights of all time. I think head to head they both beat Holmes who people have at #2 and 3 of all time.

Damn good match up. Evander is a terrible match up for guys like tyson and frazier since he's the bully on the inside. But unlike tyson frazier is a cardio machine who would keep throwing this would be a ATG classic fight that will be very controversially scored with a split decision victor imo. Depends whose night it is on that specific night. If they fought 10x i think they'd win 5 a piece.


I don't know about prime Holyfield beating prime Holmes.

Prime Holyfield met grandfather Holmes and had a tough night, certainly lost a few rounds too. If you'd imagine a 12 years younger Holmes in there with Holyfield, the result is a no brainer.

Sugarj
01-27-2012, 05:20 PM
As for Frazier vs Holyfield: Over 12 rounds I'll eak a close decision win for Holyfield, over 15 I'd sway to a close decision for Frazier.

Prime Frazier is near as dammit impossible to decision over 15 rounds (I struggle to think of a heavyweight who could; Dempsey? Marciano? Possibly, but I wouldn't be at all confident). Obviously If you punch like Foreman you can knock Frazier out, but I don't think Holyfield has quite enough firepower to do this.

I sway to a 12 round decision for Holyfield simply because Frazier was in comparison a slow starter. I think that Holyfield would rack up enough rounds early and maybe a couple late to steal it......but Frazier would only be getting warmed up by round 12. In comparison Holyfield never fought 15 rounds as a heavyweight......so we don't know quite how he would handle those extra 3 rounds above cruiserweight.

IronDanHamza
01-27-2012, 06:39 PM
All I know is in the inside battle would be a joy to watch.

Mannie Phresh
01-27-2012, 07:01 PM
Frazier decision victory.

Boxing Bob
01-27-2012, 09:31 PM
Evander is one of my top 3 all time favorites, but I'd give the nod to Joe here on a small advantage in hand speed. Joe would be one of the few guys who could take punishment as well as Evander. If Evander got on his toes and jabbed Joe all night and refused to engage on the inside, I could see him winning a decision. The problem is I can never remember Holyfield fighting this way.

And by the way, I don't think either could beat a prime Holmes

Barn
01-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Joe Frazier 15 round UD.

Frazier would probably get tagged a lot by a smart Evander at the beginning, some of his combos were really nice. However as it became harder and the fight worn on Holyfield would begin to get caught up in the trenches and fight on the inside where he's been before but, it's not his homeland.

Fraizer works hard down the stretch to bring home the UD in a close but, clear fight.

Scott9945
01-27-2012, 09:47 PM
This is a dream matchup as their styles would blend perfectly for great action at the highest level. Holy gets an edge for boxing while Joe gets the nod for power. I could make a case for either guy winning, and a better case for why this would be the best heavyweight fight ever.

Capaedia
01-27-2012, 10:17 PM
Only forecast for this one is it's not ending by RTD

F l i c k e r
01-27-2012, 11:04 PM
Honestly, I don't know who'd win. I'd want Holyfield to win but I don't know. :lol1:

them_apples
01-28-2012, 02:27 AM
First class punch-out with Frazier outworking Holyfield down the stretch to eek out a close decision. There's very few Heavies I'd pick to outwork Holy.....Frazier's one of them.

Poet

early rounds go to Holy, late rounds to Frazier. I see Frazier winning with the kind of work he would put in. Possible Late stoppage. We talking Prime Frazier, and I think Holyfield style would not fair so well against Frazier, whome I think would welcome Holyfields style. Frazier knocked out much bigger men than Holyfield, Hell he even downed Ali and looked as though he were to stop him at one point.

A Ud is the safest bet though.

them_apples
01-28-2012, 02:32 AM
This is a dream matchup as their styles would blend perfectly for great action at the highest level. Holy gets an edge for boxing while Joe gets the nod for power. I could make a case for either guy winning, and a better case for why this would be the best heavyweight fight ever.

Honestly though, power is close. A lot of Fraziers power was from repetition, Holyfield on the other hand is just straight up underrated in the banging department. Ask Foreman.

GoogleMe
01-28-2012, 04:32 AM
Holyfield is the greater fighter. Based on Holyfields resume, he's met more that fights like Frazier than the other way around.

Holyfield would win in the late rounds or a clear decision.

Sugarj
01-28-2012, 11:02 AM
Evander is one of my top 3 all time favorites, but I'd give the nod to Joe here on a small advantage in hand speed. Joe would be one of the few guys who could take punishment as well as Evander. If Evander got on his toes and jabbed Joe all night and refused to engage on the inside, I could see him winning a decision. The problem is I can never remember Holyfield fighting this way.

And by the way, I don't think either could beat a prime Holmes


Joe doesn't have a handspeed advantage over prime 1990-1992 Holyfield. Prime Holyfield's handspeed is a different league to Frazier.

Holyfield's was only a minute shade slower than Patterson, Ali or Tyson. Frazier has never been thought of as possessing particularly fast hands.

I'd watch some of their fights if I were you and gauge for yourself......

Scott9945
01-28-2012, 11:09 AM
Honestly though, power is close. A lot of Fraziers power was from repetition, Holyfield on the other hand is just straight up underrated in the banging department. Ask Foreman.

I agree, it's closer than most people would think.

The Surgeon
01-28-2012, 12:03 PM
This is one i often think about, it might well be the best action fight possible to put together in the HW division.

People tend to think Evander beat up Tyson so he'd do the same to the similar sized Frazier who was also aggressive (totally different fighters though) but then they skim over the absolute Hell "Smokin" Bert Cooper gave him...

Both guys can crack (Evander is a way under rated puncher) and both guys are crazy tough with among the best engines the division has ever seen, we would be in for non stop action fellas!

I can see Holyfield trying to box to begin with but Evander was never an out and out cutie and Frazier brought such pressure.... within a couple of rounds Holyfield would realise boxing wouldnt be enough and Joe would drag him into a war (a winnable war), i like Frazier's inside game a bit better, his power a shade more and his heart a bit more too. Holyfield had the type of combinations that could really have rattled Joe and got him going but im going to say Frazier takes it over 12-15 on a close but clear UD in an absolute CLASSIC

res
01-28-2012, 12:15 PM
I don't know about prime Holyfield beating prime Holmes.

Prime Holyfield met grandfather Holmes and had a tough night, certainly lost a few rounds too. If you'd imagine a 12 years younger Holmes in there with Holyfield, the result is a no brainer.

Yeah, I favor Holmes in that match up, I don't see what Holy's advantage would be here. He doesn't have extraordinary power, prime Holmes does have an extraordinary chin, and Holmes clearly beats him on the outside. Holmes isn't going to volunteer to brawl with Holyfeild too much.

As for Holy and Frazier, I favor Frazier. I agree with the assessment of Holy outboxing Frazier early on, but being pulled into a brawl as the fight wears on.

bojangles1987
01-28-2012, 04:42 PM
This is one i often think about, it might well be the best action fight possible to put together in the HW division.

People tend to think Evander beat up Tyson so he'd do the same to the similar sized Frazier who was also aggressive (totally different fighters though) but then they skim over the absolute Hell "Smokin" Bert Cooper gave him...

Both guys can crack (Evander is a way under rated puncher) and both guys are crazy tough with among the best engines the division has ever seen, we would be in for non stop action fellas!

I can see Holyfield trying to box to begin with but Evander was never an out and out cutie and Frazier brought such pressure.... within a couple of rounds Holyfield would realise boxing wouldnt be enough and Joe would drag him into a war (a winnable war), i like Frazier's inside game a bit better, his power a shade more and his heart a bit more too. Holyfield had the type of combinations that could really have rattled Joe and got him going but im going to say Frazier takes it over 12-15 on a close but clear UD in an absolute CLASSIC

I know it was a far younger Holyfield and Qawi isn't the same as Joe Frazier, but I wonder how much it would resemble the first Holyfield-Qawi fight. Would Evander try that hard to box Frazier, or would he go to war right away? Would Frazier get to a worn down Holyfield like Qawi couldn't?

them_apples
01-30-2012, 03:49 PM
Joe doesn't have a handspeed advantage over prime 1990-1992 Holyfield. Prime Holyfield's handspeed is a different league to Frazier.

Holyfield's was only a minute shade slower than Patterson, Ali or Tyson. Frazier has never been thought of as possessing particularly fast hands.

I'd watch some of their fights if I were you and gauge for yourself......

actually, In his prime I'd say Joe does. He wouldn't put combinations together like Evander, so depending on what you define as hand speed, he could be quicker.

Frazier would often only throw 1 or 2 shots in combination, but the velocity was quite fast. Very fast. Pretty much half the reason he gave Ali the work he did.

Sugarj
01-30-2012, 06:17 PM
actually, In his prime I'd say Joe does. He wouldn't put combinations together like Evander, so depending on what you define as hand speed, he could be quicker.

Frazier would often only throw 1 or 2 shots in combination, but the velocity was quite fast. Very fast. Pretty much half the reason he gave Ali the work he did.


I'd have said this is a no brainer based on their respective fights.

Frazier was no slouch in the handspeed department, I'd never say that.......but in comparison to 1990-1992 Holyfield, whether single punches or combinations this is no contest to my eyes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Frazier fan and over 15 rounds I'd pick him to outpoint Holy. But did he have faster hands? No chance!

DarkTerror88
01-30-2012, 09:39 PM
Frazier grinds him down to a stoppage or a UD if Evander holds on. I might go on later as i have a great picture in my mind as how this plays out.

Im kind of adopting Chicago as my home town now so i will borrow something from Derrick Rose, "Bigger, stronger faster and better than you!" i think Frazier's body work, superior tempo, and better stamina allow him to outwork and really beat up Holyfield in the later rounds.

them_apples
01-31-2012, 03:31 AM
I'd have said this is a no brainer based on their respective fights.

Frazier was no slouch in the handspeed department, I'd never say that.......but in comparison to 1990-1992 Holyfield, whether single punches or combinations this is no contest to my eyes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Frazier fan and over 15 rounds I'd pick him to outpoint Holy. But did he have faster hands? No chance!

perhaps you are correct. I'll have to review. I do remember prime Holy having fast fuggin hands though. Frazier in Ali vs Frazier 1 was blazing however.

Sugarj
01-31-2012, 05:31 AM
perhaps you are correct. I'll have to review. I do remember prime Holy having fast fuggin hands though. Frazier in Ali vs Frazier 1 was blazing however.


I'm pretty sure when the modern heavyweights were ranked in terms of handspeed Patterson was found to have the fastest left, Ali the fastest right and both Tyson and Holyfield were judged to be roughly equal. Don't quote me but I think it was touched on in Gerald Suster's book.

No mention was made of other notable guys with fast hands like Holmes, Louis or Weaver. Frazier wasn't included either. Strangely......I'd actually rank prime Joe Bugner as having really fast hands in the early 70s.

As for Ali vs Frazier 1. Frazier's left hook was so quick and ludicrously accurate. It was like a heat seeking missile that night....ha ha

Val Head
01-31-2012, 08:49 AM
Evander got schooled on the insiude by Bowe and we all know who the P4p inside fighter is on this one

fight_professor
04-22-2014, 03:36 PM
I was thinking about this fight today. It's an awesome match up.

Frazier was relentless, Holyfield took such a good punch.

Massive hearts, good output.

If I have to pick, I say Holyfield by counter punching to a close decision, but it's a true pick'em fight.

soul_survivor
04-22-2014, 05:49 PM
Great, great match up! damn!

Holyfield has a high work rate, can box or tough it out and moved well too. He loved to get into a real fight and cause some havoc, bouncing in and out of range but often getting caught. If frazier could catch Ali with that left hook, he'd catch Holyfield and as the fight wore on, Holyfield's punch resistance would soften and I see him getting stopped, possibly by the 9th.

I can't see this going the distance, people tend to forget Frazier is one of the hardest hitting heavies ever, coupled with great handspeed, good in ring know how and underrated defense.

Japanese Boxing
04-22-2014, 06:10 PM
I got Holyfield winning a decision. I can see him winning early with a mid range game and having a bigger body I see him being intelligent and bearing his weight on Frazier on the inside. No need for him to take unnecessary punishment especially knowing the caliber of fighter he's going against. I could be wrong though. I do think Frazier adapts later, but Holyfield would be up by a significant margin to get a UD.

GOD-FR33
04-22-2014, 06:28 PM
Great matchup here. Frazier was a great fighter BUT he wasn't a complete fighter. Holyfield was a special fighter and that's the difference. Holyfield was the best combination punching heavy I've ever seen. He was one of the fastest as well. He, along with Frazier, were two of the best left-hookers the division ever witnessed. Holyfield was a complete fighter. He had a great jab, great hand-speed, great legs, counter-punching, heart, will, granite chin. What it comes down to sometimes, is who can do more in the ring. In that case, Holyfield wins a war where he would box at times and brawl at times. His inside game was as good as Frazier's; Frazier would have no advantage against Evander. Evander's power against guys his size or smaller, increased. You really saw how strong he was fighting guys near his size. His left hook could drop ANYBODY. The Real Deal by decision.

creekrat77
04-22-2014, 09:05 PM
Man what a great match up! I can't believe I thought about these too fighting each other before. First off Holyfield and Frazier have great chins and I don't see either of them scoring a knockout on each other. What I do see is Frazier controlling the tempo of the fight, trying to cut off the ring and forcing Holyfield on the ropes. Holyfield will weaken Frazier as the middle rounds end and I see Holyfield racking up on more points whilst taking over the score cards. If it's a 12 round fight I have it Holyfield SD or UD. If its a 15 round fight I have it Frazier UD or late TKO because I think Frazier would out hustle him down the final stretch. I think a TKO is possible because Frazier would have been hitting Holyfield with some powerful shots the entire fight and he might get a stoppage. But I mean what the hell do I know, Holyfield may just muscle him around the ring he entire night and dominate.

One more round
04-23-2014, 04:19 AM
Frazier might eek it on workrate. Both guys would find the mark often enough to do heavy damage but i think both their chins hold up.

likeamulekick
04-23-2014, 05:16 AM
If this fight happened, this would rival gatti ward. Holyfield is the smarter fighter and would definitely use it in the early rounds lol but with these 2 guys they are destined to bring the fireworks. I do think though that holyfields strength will be a factor. My mind goes with a holyfield UD but then again were talking SMOKIN Joe Frazier here, he will be on you to the final bell with crazy conditioning, pressure and I honestly don't have a clue who would dominate on the inside and I agree with the people who favour joe in 15. What a fight

soul_survivor
04-23-2014, 05:38 AM
If this fight happened, this would rival gatti ward. Holyfield is the smarter fighter and would definitely use it in the early rounds lol but with these 2 guys they are destined to bring the fireworks. I do think though that holyfields strength will be a factor. My mind goes with a holyfield UD but then again were talking SMOKIN Joe Frazier here, he will be on you to the final bell with crazy conditioning, pressure and I honestly don't have a clue who would dominate on the inside and I agree with the people who favour joe in 15. What a fight

I don't agree with that, I think Joe had more ring savvy. There are few offensive fighters as intelligent as Joe in the ring.

likeamulekick
04-23-2014, 01:09 PM
I'm talking about coming in with a game plan, I can't see joe coming up with a master game plan in this fight

Sugar Adam Ali
04-23-2014, 03:23 PM
Holyfield would win a war because of his slightly better all around game...

If evander stands and trades like he did bowe1, then he would probably get outworked and beat by frazier, but if evander boxes from the outside like he did foreman, bowe 2, i think he would outpoint frazier

Classic fight

Layzie Kidd
04-23-2014, 03:54 PM
Two of my all time favorites here.

Holyfield I go with also. One of the best counter punchers, once you wanted to try and hit Holyfield is when he would start beating you at your own game.
Very good counter puncher and combination puncher. He's held his own against big punchers in his career, and beat them too.

Both greatly conditioned.

Since Frazier never got cut it goes to decision after a long grueling fight.

New England
04-23-2014, 04:08 PM
oh my goodness.

me. i win. two of my favorites.

GoToTheBody
04-23-2014, 04:33 PM
Holyfield i would say

Mike Haynes
04-23-2014, 04:44 PM
Damn good fight between i think two of the most underrated heavyweights of all time. I think head to head they both beat Holmes who people have at #2 and 3 of all time.

Damn good match up. Evander is a terrible match up for guys like tyson and frazier since he's the bully on the inside. But unlike tyson frazier is a cardio machine who would keep throwing this would be a ATG classic fight that will be very controversially scored with a split decision victor imo. Depends whose night it is on that specific night. If they fought 10x i think they'd win 5 a piece.

Prime Holmes jabs all 4 of their eyeballs out....

I think back to the first Qawi fight and how that bobbing and weaving gave Holyfield fits (12-13th pro fight so what he was still top 2-3 Cruiser in the world). The only person I can think of that bobbed and weaved better than Qawi was Frazier (Tyson's was more side to side while moving in, while Frazier and Qawi's was more up and down while the opponent was punching). Add that Frazier left hook coming out of the bobb/weave and BAM, Holyfield has problems.

Yeah they both fought Foreman (and Big George would tell you he was better the second time around) but Joe's style would have been too much for Evander imo.

MRBOOMER
04-23-2014, 05:24 PM
The Frazier that fought Ali in the fight of the century drops an ud's Holyfield don't see him stopping him. I don't think holyfields ever seen relentless pressure like that I can't think of anyone except maybe Qawi

House of Stone
04-23-2014, 06:50 PM
great fight goes the distance, frazier gets a close decision. It's the big time power guys that would give frazier problems, don't think holyfield would pack enough heat to keep joe off.

qawi reminds me a little of frazier

Holywarrior
04-23-2014, 07:51 PM
Honestly if Qawi can take Holyfield to the absolute well I'd take Frazier to win a war. Frazier was amazing. But it'd be world war 3 in there.

billeau2
04-23-2014, 09:30 PM
ok wow! great comments on this thread....this thread reminds me why I post here in occasion:

First off lets look at a few different things than have already been said because a lot has been said!

Aint no way in this or any of the six worlds that Holy, or any heavyweight counters Frazier...You would be an idiot to try because he will keep mauling you. Even a guy like Joe Louis who had the technique to do it would probably prefer to try for a Ko after initiating the action....thats how you beat Frazier. And good as Holly is he is no counter puncher on that order necessary to stop a fellow swarmer.

Holly is indeed a swarmer and a volume guy....a presser but does not have the body punching ability that Frazier has. They both press but frazier has more legitimate weapons to the body which is where they will wind up often enough, given that they are both swarmers.

Holly can be his own worse enemy. He was better against Bowe and Tyson when he laid off a bit and boxed in spurts....He wouldn't be able to do this against Frazier because as said he would get drawn into a battle royale

Holly is physically stronger....hard to imagine anyone outworking him but, Joe might could do it! Joe has better technique and strong as Holly is, he aint strong as Forman was, so he aint beating Joe that way.

I think in a 15 rounder Joe gets the nod

because at the end of the day Joe was a better body guy, was perhaps at least if not more relentless, hit a bit harder, was better defensively (head bob) and because Evander showed that a slow handed tough heavy could tag him (Bowe)....and lets face it while neither guy was ever going to win the Pernell Whitaker award for D....Joe was prolly a little better defensively than Holly.

fight_professor
04-24-2014, 12:21 PM
This really is one of the best possible match ups in HW history. I stand by my earlier prediction of EH by decision.

GOD-FR33
04-24-2014, 12:51 PM
I had to add additional feedback because some of you guys are disrespecting The Real Deal. Frazier was NOT stronger than Evander. If Evander can bully Tyson, why wouldn't he be able to bully Frazier if he wants? Number 2, he was a COMPLETE fighter. Use your brains guys. When a complete fighter fights a one dimensional fighter; who wins? There was nothing Frazier did better than Holyfield. NOTHING. Number 3, Holyfield was like Ivan Draggo from Rocky VI. He was a hybrid before his time. Boxing had/has never seen a heavyweight like Evander Holyfield. There is no way Frazier can beat him. You guys are insane. Evander continues to get disrespected and underestimated. Smh. Do some more homework because it's obvious that the little you've done, didn't educate you properly.

Red Cyclone
04-24-2014, 01:56 PM
Evander Holyfield would beat Joe Frazier with ease, control the ring tempo and force Joe to back up and possibly even TKO him in the mid rounds.

likeamulekick
04-24-2014, 06:56 PM
I had to add additional feedback because some of you guys are disrespecting The Real Deal. Frazier was NOT stronger than Evander. If Evander can bully Tyson, why wouldn't he be able to bully Frazier if he wants? Number 2, he was a COMPLETE fighter. Use your brains guys. When a complete fighter fights a one dimensional fighter; who wins? There was nothing Frazier did better than Holyfield. NOTHING. Number 3, Holyfield was like Ivan Draggo from Rocky VI. He was a hybrid before his time. Boxing had/has never seen a heavyweight like Evander Holyfield. There is no way Frazier can beat him. You guys are insane. Evander continues to get disrespected and underestimated. Smh. Do some more homework because it's obvious that the little you've done, didn't educate you properly.
True but i think fraziers head movement is different to Tyson's and there wouldn't be any lunging and grappling, Frazier would stay very low and on holys chest, bobbing and occasionally getting hit with hooks or right hands but evander would have to work extremely hard to land a full combination. Yeh Strength is on evanders side but I think you need to remember relentlesness and conditioning of Frazier. Holyfield would definitely be feeling it in the late rounds, in a 15 round fight he would have to dig deeper than he's done before and I don't think he's got the power to ko Frazier. I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it sound, holyfield will eventually go to war with Frazier and he will need to keep it up until the final bell

Scott9945
04-24-2014, 10:16 PM
Evander Holyfield would beat Joe Frazier with ease, control the ring tempo and force Joe to back up and possibly even TKO him in the mid rounds.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but no way Frazier goes out like that. You are either overrating Holyfield or severely underrating Frazier.

rightsideup
04-24-2014, 10:56 PM
I see this as a very even fight. Siding with evander because he dealt with Tyson's physical strength does not work for me. Frazier had way more mental toughness then Mike.

Red Cyclone
04-25-2014, 06:43 AM
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but no way Frazier goes out like that. You are either overrating Holyfield or severely underrating Frazier.

Evander bullied Mike Tyson who is a far superior specimen than Frazier... Faster, stronger and more elusive perhaps not the same ring smarts but no way does Frazier come remotely close to beating Evander.

Evander Holyfield is too crafty and the same shots that Evander was giving to Big George... You really think Frazier could take that?
HELL NO!

One more round
04-25-2014, 09:28 AM
It comes down to whether evander can physically outmatch Frazier for good portions of the fight, if he can he wins, but if Frazier proves too relentless which I think he would when faced with a guy fairly close to his size, albeit a very strong one, the fight turns into a back and forth war and I see frazier shading it on activity

House of Stone
04-25-2014, 09:28 AM
The NSB clowns that have suddenly poured into what was a good thread claiming it's an easy fight for whichever guy don't know sh*t about boxing ... go back to talking about floyd v manny, guys.

Scott9945
04-25-2014, 09:44 AM
Evander bullied Mike Tyson who is a far superior specimen than Frazier... Faster, stronger and more elusive perhaps not the same ring smarts but no way does Frazier come remotely close to beating Evander.

Evander Holyfield is too crafty and the same shots that Evander was giving to Big George... You really think Frazier could take that?
HELL NO!

Your opinion seems based on an over the hill Tyson being physically superior to a prime Joe Frazier. That is an illusion. If Holyfield had beaten Tyson before he went to prison, then your argument may have some substance. The Tyson that Holyfield beat hadn't been past the 3rd round in over five years. You really should watch some Joe Frazier fights.

likeamulekick
04-25-2014, 09:46 AM
Evander bullied Mike Tyson who is a far superior specimen than Frazier... Faster, stronger and more elusive perhaps not the same ring smarts but no way does Frazier come remotely close to beating Evander.

Evander Holyfield is too crafty and the same shots that Evander was giving to Big George... You really think Frazier could take that?
HELL NO!
Your comparing joe to big George and tyson. Tyson was elusive but was not an inside fighter and would tire against holyfield when he had to lunge in from mid range and would not be effective in holyfields chest, he was more upright. Strength is a factor but so is styles, power, chin and conditioning in this fight. Qawi fight has been mentioned and that's the best example but just imagine qwai better timing better conditioning more relentless, always moving forward and wouldn't get lazy with his head movement. I don't see how this is a easy win for holyfield in anyway, he will have to throw a ton of punches in this fight. Even if there was a chance of Frazier going down, I wouldn't worry at all, he was still on his feet after getting knocked down six times by probably the most powerful onslaught a pressure guy could take. Holyfields facing a guy with a heart and will has big as his

GOD-FR33
04-25-2014, 12:18 PM
Yes it is. I have both of their careers on DVD and I watch them often. It is as clear as I am making it. You are over-rating Frazier because of his era. Was he tough as nails? Of course. Is he a HOF'mer? Yes. Would he have the tools to defeat an ATG Heavyweight like Evander? Absolutely not. You still haven't told me Frazier's advantage over Evander? Don't worry, I'll wait. LoL. He had none. So what wins him the fight? Holyfield would beat every opponent Frazier faced, including ALI in my opinion. People always talking about the dream match of ALI vs Tyson but ALI would KO Tyson. ALI would have his hands full with Holyfield because he could match ALI in every skill category. On top of that, he was the better overall fighter. He had better technique and operated like a machine. You didn't have to tell Holy to throw body shots. ALI didn't throw body shots and was susceptible to the left hook. Against A Level fighters, you NEED to go to the body. ALI would've lost to a few fighters who came after him. I am not knocking him, but facts are facts

GOD-FR33
04-25-2014, 12:26 PM
Guess what? It doesn't matter what version of Tyson that Holyfield fought. Holyfield was a complete fighter. He would've beaten Tyson worse pre jail. He would've Ko'ed that version of Tyson faster then he did in the first fight. No version of Tyson beats Holyfield. He took Tyson's best shots like they were nothing. He is a special fighter. He's more special then Frazier as well. He would beat Frazier. Tyson was more of a physical freak then Frazier. He was also much stronger than Frazier. Evander was on another level.

Sugar Adam Ali
04-25-2014, 02:40 PM
Guess what? It doesn't matter what version of Tyson that Holyfield fought. Holyfield was a complete fighter. He would've beaten Tyson worse pre jail. He would've Ko'ed that version of Tyson faster then he did in the first fight. No version of Tyson beats Holyfield. He took Tyson's best shots like they were nothing. He is a special fighter. He's more special then Frazier as well. He would beat Frazier. Tyson was more of a physical freak then Frazier. He was also much stronger than Frazier. Evander was on another level.

I totally agree,,, Holyfield would always beat tyson,, from the amateur sparring sessions at olympic trials, to late 80s, early 90s, pre-jail, post-jail, right now this very day,,, Evander just was a better fighter than Tyson and his style would always trump tyson..

rightsideup
04-25-2014, 03:03 PM
Evander bullied Mike Tyson who is a far superior specimen than Frazier... Faster, stronger and more elusive perhaps not the same ring smarts but no way does Frazier come remotely close to beating Evander.

Evander Holyfield is too crafty and the same shots that Evander was giving to Big George... You really think Frazier could take that?
HELL NO!By the time Evander fought Tyson Mike's defence was certainly not up to prime.

GOD-FR33
04-25-2014, 04:09 PM
Yup. I am glad someone has common sense. It's one thing to have an opinion, but it's another to ignore facts and analysis when breaking down fights/fantasy fights.

likeamulekick
04-25-2014, 06:20 PM
Yes it is. I have both of their careers on DVD and I watch them often. It is as clear as I am making it. You are over-rating Frazier because of his era. Was he tough as nails? Of course. Is he a HOF'mer? Yes. Would he have the tools to defeat an ATG Heavyweight like Evander? Absolutely not. You still haven't told me Frazier's advantage over Evander? Don't worry, I'll wait. LoL. He had none. So what wins him the fight? Holyfield would beat every opponent Frazier faced, including ALI in my opinion. People always talking about the dream match of ALI vs Tyson but ALI would KO Tyson. ALI would have his hands full with Holyfield because he could match ALI in every skill category. On top of that, he was the better overall fighter. He had better technique and operated like a machine. You didn't have to tell Holy to throw body shots. ALI didn't throw body shots and was susceptible to the left hook. Against A Level fighters, you NEED to go to the body. ALI would've lost to a few fighters who came after him. I am not knocking him, but facts are facts
I did lol conditioning, relentlessnes, his style, pressure, lands his left hook before evanders, head movement and the consistency of all those advantages, while constantly moving forward, would be harder to hit than tyson. It may be that you are right about the first 6 rounds but you dint answer to the fact that the very low probability of Frazier being knocked down or stopped and holyfield tiring in a long fight. Do you mean Ali's second career? Because if your saying holy dominates a prime Ali, I think it may be pointless to debate with a crazy

GOD-FR33
04-25-2014, 08:01 PM
I didn't say that Evander would dominate Frazier or ALI. I think he beats them both based on "evolution". ALI was ahead of his time in every aspect. He was more athletic than any other heavyweight of his time. Key word, "his time". Evander was ahead of his time as well. He fought better fighters then ALI. Don't forget that. He faced bigger skilled guys then ALI had ever seen. That alone gives him a chance to defeat ALI. Never going to the body, is a flaw in any fighter. To beat Holyfield, you cannot hit a chin made of granite and expect China to come out of it. Get me? Holyfield beats any version of ALI. Blame evolution of boxing if anything.

billeau2
04-25-2014, 08:42 PM
The NSB clowns that have suddenly poured into what was a good thread claiming it's an easy fight for whichever guy don't know sh*t about boxing ... go back to talking about floyd v manny, guys.

Dude you read my mind....Where does one even start when people have such silly thoughts? I actually posted responding to one of them then I said Naw!

billeau2
04-25-2014, 08:46 PM
Yup. I am glad someone has common sense. It's one thing to have an opinion, but it's another to ignore facts and analysis when breaking down fights/fantasy fights.

hey idiot you have not cited ONE fact!!! you have stated that you think Hollyfield is stronger than Frazier and made a bit of a fool of yourself making a case for Hollyfields skills being exceptional compared to Frazier. Enough is enough.

Your citing an opinion. There are no facts involved.

It so happens that many people who know both fighters may take issue with your opinions.... But at the end of the day to say that anyone is using factual analysis in this thread is silly.

Scott9945
04-25-2014, 09:22 PM
hey idiot you have not cited ONE fact!!! you have stated that you think Hollyfield is stronger than Frazier and made a bit of a fool of yourself making a case for Hollyfields skills being exceptional compared to Frazier. Enough is enough.

Your citing an opinion. There are no facts involved.

It so happens that many people who know both fighters may take issue with your opinions.... But at the end of the day to say that anyone is using factual analysis in this thread is silly.

He did use facts when he cited Holyfield beating Frazier or Ali due to "evolution". And we all now how much evolution there was in the 20 years between the start of their careers!

Of course this is assuming that PED's are a form of evolution.

billeau2
04-25-2014, 10:50 PM
He did use facts when he cited Holyfield beating Frazier or Ali due to "evolution". And we all now how much evolution there was in the 20 years between the start of their careers!

Of course this is assuming that PED's are a form of evolution.

yes of course the ole evolution argument (maxwell smart voice)...

GOD-FR33
04-25-2014, 11:23 PM
Watch your mouth, man. I am not the one. The only "fact" I believe is that Holyfield is more skilled than Frazier. Who would disagree with that? It's not even close, actually. And you're right, we are giving opinions/thoughts BUT some things are common sense. Holyfield being the more skilled fighter is one of them.

Anthony342
04-26-2014, 12:43 AM
I totally agree,,, Holyfield would always beat tyson,, from the amateur sparring sessions at olympic trials, to late 80s, early 90s, pre-jail, post-jail, right now this very day,,, Evander just was a better fighter than Tyson and his style would always trump tyson..

I can agree with that, but if they're both in their prime, even though Holyfield still wins, I think the fight is a lot more competitive and could even go the distance.

Panthershock
04-26-2014, 01:44 PM
ok wow! great comments on this thread....this thread reminds me why I post here in occasion:

First off lets look at a few different things than have already been said because a lot has been said!

Aint no way in this or any of the six worlds that Holy, or any heavyweight counters Frazier...You would be an idiot to try because he will keep mauling you. Even a guy like Joe Louis who had the technique to do it would probably prefer to try for a Ko after initiating the action....thats how you beat Frazier. And good as Holly is he is no counter puncher on that order necessary to stop a fellow swarmer.

Holly is indeed a swarmer and a volume guy....a presser but does not have the body punching ability that Frazier has. They both press but frazier has more legitimate weapons to the body which is where they will wind up often enough, given that they are both swarmers.

Holly can be his own worse enemy. He was better against Bowe and Tyson when he laid off a bit and boxed in spurts....He wouldn't be able to do this against Frazier because as said he would get drawn into a battle royale

Holly is physically stronger....hard to imagine anyone outworking him but, Joe might could do it! Joe has better technique and strong as Holly is, he aint strong as Forman was, so he aint beating Joe that way.

I think in a 15 rounder Joe gets the nod

because at the end of the day Joe was a better body guy, was perhaps at least if not more relentless, hit a bit harder, was better defensively (head bob) and because Evander showed that a slow handed tough heavy could tag him (Bowe)....and lets face it while neither guy was ever going to win the Pernell Whitaker award for D....Joe was prolly a little better defensively than Holly.

pretty much sums up my view

yes Holyfield had the ability to win fights by outboxing you, Frazier did not possess that type of skillset. I don't think this matters in this instance because Holyfield would not have been able to stop the constant swarming of Frazier by boxing him.

Inevitably it ends up at very close quarters and Frazier has the advantage there

billeau2
04-26-2014, 02:03 PM
Watch your mouth, man. I am not the one. The only "fact" I believe is that Holyfield is more skilled than Frazier. Who would disagree with that? It's not even close, actually. And you're right, we are giving opinions/thoughts BUT some things are common sense. Holyfield being the more skilled fighter is one of them.

Jesus H christ!!!!! thats NOT A FACT!!!! Do you get it?!!!! Even your sentence SHoWS YOU that it in an opinion....Your words right? pay attention:

GodFR33 says "The only FACT I BELIEVE is..... A belief is not a fact. It is based on faith and or opinion. Nothing wrong with that but this generation has forgot how to think logically and we need people to think straight!!!!

If I say that Butter Bean is better than Tyson than it is absurd, but it is not untrue. It is not untrue because it cannot be true. I can choose to butress this argument with facts that are either true or not true which is the basis for a decent argument and what you have not done.

Common sense?
No. The nice thing about this topic is that it is quite debatable as to who would win a match between Holyfield and Frazier. As a matter of fact you might try to give an instance (factual) where you prove Holyfield is stronger and more resilant than Joe: Holyfield lost to Bowe in a sluggout, Frazier obviiously lost to Foreman twice that way.... But Holyfield only beat Bowe by boxing him and most people do not think Bowe was the fighter that big george was!

Holyfield also did not fight 15 rounds pressing the way Joe did and never could press a boxer like Frazier did Ali. Toney boxed Holly's sox off and so did Lewis. Moore also outboxed Holly the first time out....Frazier, unlike Holly could pressure a decent boxer.

Sugar Adam Ali
04-26-2014, 02:56 PM
Jesus H christ!!!!! thats NOT A FACT!!!! Do you get it?!!!! Even your sentence SHoWS YOU that it in an opinion....Your words right? pay attention:

GodFR33 says "The only FACT I BELIEVE is..... A belief is not a fact. It is based on faith and or opinion. Nothing wrong with that but this generation has forgot how to think logically and we need people to think straight!!!!

If I say that Butter Bean is better than Tyson than it is absurd, but it is not untrue. It is not untrue because it cannot be true. I can choose to butress this argument with facts that are either true or not true which is the basis for a decent argument and what you have not done.

Common sense?
No. The nice thing about this topic is that it is quite debatable as to who would win a match between Holyfield and Frazier. As a matter of fact you might try to give an instance (factual) where you prove Holyfield is stronger and more resilant than Joe: Holyfield lost to Bowe in a sluggout, Frazier obviiously lost to Foreman twice that way.... But Holyfield only beat Bowe by boxing him and most people do not think Bowe was the fighter that big george was!

Holyfield also did not fight 15 rounds pressing the way Joe did and never could press a boxer like Frazier did Ali. Toney boxed Holly's sox off and so did Lewis. Moore also outboxed Holly the first time out....Frazier, unlike Holly could pressure a decent boxer.

Understand what your saying, but i wouldnt use the toney, lennox, and even the moorer fight to highlight evander's career,, he was pretty much past it by the moorer fight...
Holyfield was prime from 86-93,, the 2 bowe fights really took alot out of him, and also the dokes war, bert cooper, foreman shots, and all the cruiser wars.... Thats the holyfield to use in this scenario, not the semi retired, aging champ... It would be like using frazier from the foreman rematch or jumbo fight....

GOD-FR33
04-26-2014, 05:44 PM
Good post. You can throw in the Larry Donald fight, The Ruiz fights, and the Chris Byrd fight. None of them beat a Holyfield with life in him. He was OLD. Period. This is how I know that this guy is biased or just want to argue. Who would bring up past prime fights? Truth is, Evander has seen "swarmers", brawlers, boxers, punchers, etc his entire career. Frazier wouldn't have shown him anything new. Frazier was tough as nails, he had great stamina, and a great beard. SO WHAT!!!!!! So did Evander and he was the more versatile fighter. Last time I checked, you don't BREAK Holyfield down. If you can't BREAK him as Frazier would need to do, you can't win. Matter of fact, I think Holyfield would hurt Frazier more than Frazier would hurt him because he was taller and stronger. It hurts more when someone punches down at or on you because of leverage. He knew how to punch down on opponents.

billeau2
04-26-2014, 06:36 PM
Understand what your saying, but i wouldnt use the toney, lennox, and even the moorer fight to highlight evander's career,, he was pretty much past it by the moorer fight...
Holyfield was prime from 86-93,, the 2 bowe fights really took alot out of him, and also the dokes war, bert cooper, foreman shots, and all the cruiser wars.... Thats the holyfield to use in this scenario, not the semi retired, aging champ... It would be like using frazier from the foreman rematch or jumbo fight....

You mean like the Frazier I mentioned in the two Foreman fights he was ploughed in?" :arabia:
I was careful to use both guys in their entirety which....BTW would seem to favor Holyfield who had many more later succeses than smokin' Joe.

Certainly one could use a prime versus prime comparison but frankly that gives so much less material and a good deal of the real deals prime was spent as a cruiser anyhow! Also heres another factor to consider: when Holyfield wanted to he beat Moore pretty easily. That would suggest that he was not so past it, but rather that Moore had exposed a weakness Holy had against a boxer who was good enough to avoid his pressure, swarming attack...and Moore was that good a boxer (in his division at least).

You see where I am going with this? it means that Holly could still put it together but was not always succesful where as Joe Frazier fought and pressured one of the greatest boxers ever on several occasions. This would suggest that Frazier was even a more relentless pressure fighter than Holly was, hence that is why I used their whole careers. If you don't then you have to take away Hollyfield's win over Tyson...remember that!!:arabia:

billeau2
04-26-2014, 06:46 PM
Good post. You can throw in the Larry Donald fight, The Ruiz fights, and the Chris Byrd fight. None of them beat a Holyfield with life in him. He was OLD. Period. This is how I know that this guy is biased or just want to argue. Who would bring up past prime fights? Truth is, Evander has seen "swarmers", brawlers, boxers, punchers, etc his entire career. Frazier wouldn't have shown him anything new. Frazier was tough as nails, he had great stamina, and a great beard. SO WHAT!!!!!! So did Evander and he was the more versatile fighter. Last time I checked, you don't BREAK Holyfield down. If you can't BREAK him as Frazier would need to do, you can't win. Matter of fact, I think Holyfield would hurt Frazier more than Frazier would hurt him because he was taller and stronger. It hurts more when someone punches down at or on you because of leverage. He knew how to punch down on opponents.

Its true that guys a real @hole, expecting you to give examples for such creative reenactments as the fatal downward Holly special that would be delivered to a bobbing, weaving, pressing Frazier.

Yeah that guy what a piece of work...expecting you to actually describe what fight occurance(s) would suggest that Holyfields versatility would threaten Joe Frazier.....

People like that guy are a real pain in the genitials!! with their insipid requests to provide examples of statements that would seem to make no sense!!!

Here here!!!! but listen don't let that @holes idiocy get in the way I agree Hollyfield is better and you know why? BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!!

Scott9945
04-26-2014, 10:27 PM
Good post. You can throw in the Larry Donald fight, The Ruiz fights, and the Chris Byrd fight. None of them beat a Holyfield with life in him. He was OLD. Period. This is how I know that this guy is biased or just want to argue. Who would bring up past prime fights? Truth is, Evander has seen "swarmers", brawlers, boxers, punchers, etc his entire career. Frazier wouldn't have shown him anything new. Frazier was tough as nails, he had great stamina, and a great beard. SO WHAT!!!!!! So did Evander and he was the more versatile fighter. Last time I checked, you don't BREAK Holyfield down. If you can't BREAK him as Frazier would need to do, you can't win. Matter of fact, I think Holyfield would hurt Frazier more than Frazier would hurt him because he was taller and stronger. It hurts more when someone punches down at or on you because of leverage. He knew how to punch down on opponents.

You do realize that almost all of Frazier's opponents were taller than him. And all of them not named Foreman got hurt. If you're talking about Lennox or Klitschko the height is a factor. But Holyfield wasn't nearly that tall. And Frazier would be even stronger than Holyfield if he was as juiced up on roids and HGH as Evan Fields was.

Ziggy Stardust
04-26-2014, 10:47 PM
Remember when people who brought that "evolution" bullsh1t in here would get douched out like the clotted menstrual spooge that they are?

Anthony342
04-26-2014, 11:00 PM
Yep, sure do. When I hear about Evolution now, it always reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPZcSX7SdPg

Ziggy Stardust
04-26-2014, 11:33 PM
Yep, sure do. When I hear about Evolution now, it always reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPZcSX7SdPg

:chuckle9: Oh the amount of 'roids that went into making that video lol :hahahaha9:

Anthony342
04-27-2014, 05:49 AM
Yeah, not to mention Geritol and Viagra in the case of Flair haha.

billeau2
04-27-2014, 10:13 AM
Yep, sure do. When I hear about Evolution now, it always reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPZcSX7SdPg

Lol Roid rage has been replaced by poster rage.... a man sits in mommy's basement...the cheetos are out, his feelings having been comprimised....or hurted, there will be hell to pay!!!:boxing:

but to be serious for a moment Anthony you make a great point. How do we rationally discuss the impact of roids? We do have to consider that if they are an advantage (debatable for boxing) then nothing precludes any fighter using them in a comparison. I mean if in the next 29 years boxers evolved to have 3 arms (some people on this board think it could happen in 28 btw) then that would be a real advantage that has a great impact on comparisons. Steriods could almost be put in the same category.

billeau2
04-27-2014, 10:15 AM
Remember when people who brought that "evolution" bullsh1t in here would get douched out like the clotted menstrual spooge that they are?

There was a slight.....event, the evolutionists saw a clip of doc oc on the news for the new spidey movie and were convinced that boxers born this generation through a process of natural selection were going to grow another arm for the ring...hence they got a bit big in the britches and brave? shall we say?

Ziggy Stardust
04-27-2014, 12:17 PM
Yeah, not to mention Geritol and Viagra in the case of Flair haha.

Funny true story: When the WWE brought in Scott Steiner (an obvious 'roid freak) back in '03 they wanted him to take a PEDs test. Steiner said he'd take the test if Triple H took one too: The WWE dropped the test request :hahahaha9:

Ziggy Stardust
04-27-2014, 12:17 PM
There was a slight.....event, the evolutionists saw a clip of doc oc on the news for the new spidey movie and were convinced that boxers born this generation through a process of natural selection were going to grow another arm for the ring...hence they got a bit big in the britches and brave? shall we say?

:hahahaha9::hahahaha9::hahahaha9:

Awesome-O
04-30-2014, 11:23 PM
Evander was vulnerable to the body. Frazier gets him a working to the ribs.

No amount of HGH will help that.

GOD-FR33
05-01-2014, 09:28 AM
"And Frazier would be even stronger than Holyfield if he was as juiced up on roids and HGH as Evan Fields was."

End of debate. Get off my page. When you start throwing personal shots at a certain fighter, it's clear that you wear your beating heart, on your sleeve. You are no different than Floyd, his uncle, or his father. They're all ignorant pieces of scum. Evan Fields. Hahahaha. How many fights did this guy have? I don't know him but I do know Shane Mosley, Fernando Vargas, James Toney, Lamont Peterson, and Juan Marquez. Get my hint?

Scott9945
05-01-2014, 09:44 AM
"And Frazier would be even stronger than Holyfield if he was as juiced up on roids and HGH as Evan Fields was."

End of debate. Get off my page. When you start throwing personal shots at a certain fighter, it's clear that you wear your beating heart, on your sleeve. You are no different than Floyd, his uncle, or his father. They're all ignorant pieces of scum. Evan Fields. Hahahaha. How many fights did this guy have? I don't know him but I do know Shane Mosley, Fernando Vargas, James Toney, Lamont Peterson, and Juan Marquez. Get my hint?


Sorry that your hero was all juiced up. Everyone knows it too.

And I'll be posting here as often as I please, Fanboy.

GOD-FR33
05-01-2014, 09:49 AM
I disagree. Only you seem to know it. Holyfield is relaxing in the Hall Of Fame. He's an ATG. He is a top ten all-time heavyweight. What are you? My point exactly. It's always the keyboard warriors and those who can't accept the opinions of others, who talk the most. If you and The Real Deal were face to face, would you say such foolery? I'll answer that for you, HELL NO!!!!!!! Good bye.

Scott9945
05-01-2014, 10:40 AM
I disagree. Only you seem to know it. Holyfield is relaxing in the Hall Of Fame. He's an ATG. He is a top ten all-time heavyweight. What are you? My point exactly. It's always the keyboard warriors and those who can't accept the opinions of others, who talk the most. If you and The Real Deal were face to face, would you say such foolery? I'll answer that for you, HELL NO!!!!!!! Good bye.

Such a childish rebuttal. :lol1:

Ziggy Stardust
05-01-2014, 12:30 PM
You have to be pretty naive to think that most if not all of the top fighters since the '90s aren't using some sort of PEDs.

Scott9945
05-01-2014, 12:39 PM
You have to be pretty naive to think that most if not all of the top fighters since the '90s aren't using some sort of PEDs.

Apparently to be able to say that you have to be willing to confront those fighters face to face about it. :nono:

Keyboard warrior! :banana:

Mannie Phresh
05-01-2014, 12:42 PM
Zombie Joe Frazier vs early 90s Evander Holyfield? Ill take zombie Frazier.

billeau2
05-01-2014, 08:42 PM
I disagree. Only you seem to know it. Holyfield is relaxing in the Hall Of Fame. He's an ATG. He is a top ten all-time heavyweight. What are you? My point exactly. It's always the keyboard warriors and those who can't accept the opinions of others, who talk the most. If you and The Real Deal were face to face, would you say such foolery? I'll answer that for you, HELL NO!!!!!!! Good bye.

Heres what I would do!!!! I would puff my chest out put my finger in his face and make sure I got some spittle on his grill while I tole him what a cheaten bastard maker he was!!!! Then as he was getting ready to respond I would get all teary eyed and say....."Daddy....DADDY don't you remember? I am number 33, you wouldn't hit one of your sons would you?"

GOD-FR33
05-01-2014, 09:05 PM
Hahahaha!!!!!!!! Now that was funny! I have to admit. You're wrong man!

No Tomorrow
05-02-2014, 12:14 AM
This is a fight Holyfield should win, but due to his bravado would lose in a war trying to beat Joe at his own game

One more round
05-02-2014, 12:34 AM
You have to be pretty naive to think that most if not all of the top fighters since the '90s aren't using some sort of PEDs.

Its a pretty sad reality of the sport today. It jeopardises all the (few) great moments in the sport over the last generation. Pacquiao's run thru the weights, Mayweathers exceptional abilities at age 37, Hopkins winning at nearly 50, all these things become suspect to a degree. Not saying all those guys juice but it makes you think. and to deny it is like you said naive.

Awesome-O
05-03-2014, 03:07 PM
Holyfield's hair fell out in a year, he had those symptoms consistent with HGH use, the Evan Fields thing, "it was for hormonal reasons, you can ask my doctor but he is dead", the NSAC saying after the Moorer fight that his symptoms were very consistent with HGH use, but they couldn't test for it.

This is not a court of law where you must prove something beyond a reasonable doubt. Circumstantial evidence and common sense will lead you to believe he took some PEDs.....but how many of his opponents did too? Probably quite a few.

Awesome-O
05-03-2014, 03:18 PM
Holyfield was doubled over or hurt from bodyshots by Foreman, Moorer, Lewis, Bowe numerous times, and eventually stopped by Toney. The best work Tyson did in their two fights was when he did his usual right-side, hook/uppercut combo.

Frazier is only one of the greatest body punchers ever.

Frazier wins a brutal war. His face will look like he did after FOTC and the Thrilla and Holyfield's body will feel like he got hammered by bats swung by Barry Bonds.