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New England
01-18-2012, 08:50 PM
He had his ups and his downs
he took some punches and dished out some of his own

his best defense was a very good chin and a set of earmuffs

kelly pavlik's first fight with taylor and his fight with edison miranda were both instant classics
they will stand the test of time.
i rarely get through all of the taylor fight, because it brings back the pain, but i could watch his fight with miranda all day.
no joke. i could make a rainy saturday out of it. that might say more about my life than how great the fight was, but it was still a great fight

here's a highlight of another great fight with MW tough named jose luis zertuche
this is vintage pavlik. leaky defense. lots of punches. great chin. serious power.
doublin and tripplin that fvckin jab!

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Gmk33MjUKFA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



talk about your memories of the ghost as he was at his best, as those days are obviously now part of the boxing history section
he wasnt a fine wine. he was a shot of the hard stuff

you'd have trouble drawing up a more TV friendly MW
volume. size
power
easy to find and tag
fighting out of friggin youngstown?

New England
01-18-2012, 09:03 PM
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UjxpC-11qzg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pavlik and miranda


<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RoESllNehNk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pavlik and taylor


<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/B-uTjtfCovs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pro debut as a teenager
this one is from 2000!
check out the extension on his right hand. you really dont teach that

cja07007
01-18-2012, 09:32 PM
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UjxpC-11qzg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pavlik and miranda


<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RoESllNehNk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pavlik and taylor


<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/B-uTjtfCovs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pro debut as a teenager
this one is from 2000!
check out the extension on his right hand. you really dont teach that

Haven't seen him in his debut before. Could see some special things there for an 18 year old.

New England
01-18-2012, 09:35 PM
Haven't seen him in his debut before. Could see some special things there for an 18 year old.



absolutely. minus the speed you knew you were looking at a very serious prospect if you knew what to look for

i've been fortunate now to have seen many guys make their debuts, and pavlik puts his punches together and launches his offense as well as any of the guy's i've seen debut outside of the true olympic level pedigree of amateurs


and of course you've got an 18 year old who hits like a mule

The Surgeon
01-19-2012, 05:00 AM
He had his ups and his downs
he took some punches and dished out some of his own

his best defense was a very good chin and a set of earmuffs

kelly pavlik's first fight with taylor and his fight with edison miranda were both instant classics
they will stand the test of time.
i rarely get through all of the taylor fight, because it brings back the pain, but i could watch his fight with miranda all day.
no joke. i could make a rainy saturday out of it. that might say more about my life than how great the fight was, but it was still a great fight

here's a highlight of another great fight with MW tough named jose luis zertuche
this is vintage pavlik. leaky defense. lots of punches. great chin. serious power.
doublin and tripplin that fvckin jab!

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Gmk33MjUKFA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



talk about your memories of the ghost as he was at his best, as those days are obviously now part of the boxing history section
he wasnt a fine wine. he was a shot of the hard stuff

you'd have trouble drawing up a more TV friendly MW
volume. size
power
easy to find and tag
fighting out of friggin youngstown?
I watched this one again last night actually! Thats a great analogy u make - fine wine/hard stuff! Love it!

Pavlik was always fun to watch, i knew he would never beat a guy like B Hop but he was big, strong, full of balls, could bang with the best and kept that pressure on all night! Fun fighter. Shame how he's let his outside life ruin his ring life....

rsf
01-19-2012, 05:00 AM
every time i see pavlik i just feel he is overrated and given to much respect

The Surgeon
01-19-2012, 05:10 AM
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UjxpC-11qzg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pavlik and miranda


<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RoESllNehNk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pavlik and taylor


<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/B-uTjtfCovs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pro debut as a teenager
this one is from 2000!
check out the extension on his right hand. you really dont teach that

Hadn't seen his debut before, nice find thanks for sharing. Kelly was banging that right hand in from the start huh

bojangles1987
01-19-2012, 07:05 AM
It's a damn shame he faded so quick. Both Pavlik and Taylor, both the best middleweights after Hopkins looked great, and then went downhill quick.

New England
01-19-2012, 09:46 AM
It's a damn shame he faded so quick. Both Pavlik and Taylor, both the best middleweights after Hopkins looked great, and then went downhill quick.

i've said this a few times before, but if you had told me that hopkins would outlast both taylor and pavlik i'd have offered to drive you to the doctor to get your head checked out

and here we are

New England
01-19-2012, 09:47 AM
every time i see pavlik i just feel he is overrated and given to much respect



nobody here is saying he was anything other than a terrific action fighter
a hard man

and the MW champion of the world
:cool2:

New England
01-19-2012, 09:53 AM
I watched this one again last night actually! Thats a great analogy u make - fine wine/hard stuff! Love it!

Pavlik was always fun to watch, i knew he would never beat a guy like B Hop but he was big, strong, full of balls, could bang with the best and kept that pressure on all night! Fun fighter. Shame how he's let his outside life ruin his ring life....




aint life grand?
that zertuche fight is just unbelievable. who fights like that? lightweights // FW's mostly.
both guys took some serious bombs


i'd love the guy even more if he didnt knock JT out of commission and end his prime, but that's the nature of the game and i've got to respect it.

rsf
01-19-2012, 12:38 PM
did you say terrific

New England
01-19-2012, 04:46 PM
did you say terrific


i dont know dude, did i?


if this is the extent of the contributions you'll be making to the thread i'll be glad when you are done contributing

The Surgeon
01-19-2012, 04:53 PM
i dont know dude, did i?




You did. And he was.... A Terrific action fighter

who made it all the way to the MW Championship

New England
01-19-2012, 05:04 PM
You did. And he was.... A Terrific action fighter

who made it all the way to the MW Championship



a terrific action fighter and the legit MW champion of the world you say?


not bad, huh?

Prince Mongo
01-19-2012, 05:16 PM
Pavlik was a great fighter but his style was never destined for longevity.I had a feeling when he signed for Hopkins that would be the end for him. I wish he had fought Abraham then. That would have been a super fight.

nomadman
01-20-2012, 06:20 AM
Love the drinks analogy, and perfectly sums Pavlik up (sadly).

Pavlik is a conflicting character which makes it hard to analyse him with a fair and even eye. In his short prime he was one of the gutsiest and most hard working kids in the sport, and would have made even throwbacks say he was a throwback. The Miranda fight is a modern day classic, and one I can endlessly rewatch with the same razor wire intensity every time. Miranda was one of the most feared men in the sport at the time, and hadn't ever been beaten save for a controversial decision in Germany against Abraham. Pavlik took him on and beat him at his own game, never backing down for an instant. He then went on to beat Taylor in a thriller that saw both men on the canvas and which catapulted him to the cusp of glory. Then he took on Hopkins and we all know what happened after that.

I never entirely bought into the hype surrounding Pavlik, but I respected him for getting to a position that made people want to hype him in the first place. And unlike some fighters, the hype around Pavlik wasn't so much artificial as it was the overly effusive praise of fight-fans who found Pavlik a shot in the arm (or a shot of the hard stuff). Can't really blame guys for reacting like that.

Pav's best days are behind him now, and with his drinks problem having come out in such an ugly fashion he's now being made a figure of fun, hate, and occasionally of pity.

These things all tend to get forgotten over time, though, and I think when the dust has settled and we look back on Pavlik the fighter we'll see and appreciate him for what he was.

El Jesus
01-20-2012, 08:23 PM
I think the hopkins fight brought to light a rare matchmaking mistake from top rank, that fight simply shouldnt have happened, but then again maybe pavliks own life was on a collision course to destruction regardless. pavlik didint like movement and he didint like anyone with enough quickness to meet him or beat him to the punch, with that said he had alot of power and his fights were fun.

nomadman
01-20-2012, 08:42 PM
I think the hopkins fight brought to light a rare matchmaking mistake from top rank, that fight simply shouldnt have happened, but then again maybe pavliks own life was on a collision course to destruction regardless. pavlik didint like movement and he didint like anyone with enough quickness to meet him or beat him to the punch, with that said he had alot of power and his fights were fun.

As I remember it Pavlik and his team were angling for a fight with Calzaghe somewhere down the line. Hopkins had just lost to Zags and I guess Pavlik's handlers thought it'd up his bargaining power if he did the same in more emphatic fashion. They basically underestimated Hops catastrophically, as did quite a few boxing fans at the time.

RINGG
01-20-2012, 08:58 PM
I remember watching him early and didn't expect much. It was a big suprise to me the way he took out Taylor.

rsf
01-21-2012, 06:56 AM
i dont know dude, did i?


if this is the extent of the contributions you'll be making to the thread i'll be glad when you are done contributing


terrific action fighter well ok , but i would sum it up a bit different probably a predictable fighter with a leaky defence with a very good right hand and not great footwork but i must admit a big heart. that if fighting a better champion would not of got his hands on the world tittle belt. world champions like minter and antuofermo would of beaten pavlik in my opinion and as much as i like minter i will admit he was not a top notch champion. even going further back to a little mentioned tittle holder like billy soose would of given pavlik a shellacking . this of course is purely my own humble opinion which i fully expect you to disagree with . but if we all agreed these forums would be very boring

a very exciting fantasy match up which pavlik would of won would be against mark kaylor a fighter that could bang with not a great defence and average footwork that liked to go war. pavlik having the better chin and the edge in power would win a wild one by stoppage

nomadman
01-21-2012, 08:26 AM
terrific action fighter well ok , but i would sum it up a bit different probably a predictable fighter with a leaky defence with a very good right hand and not great footwork but i must admit a big heart. that if fighting a better champion would not of got his hands on the world tittle belt. world champions like minter and antuofermo would of beaten pavlik in my opinion and as much as i like minter i will admit he was not a top notch champion. even going further back to a little mentioned tittle holder like billy soose would of given pavlik a shellacking . this of course is purely my own humble opinion which i fully expect you to disagree with . but if we all agreed these forums would be very boring


Pav's footwork I thought was actually pretty good. He was always in a position to get maximum leverage on his shots, closed distance well, never lunged forward or seemed very off balance unless he was hurt. For what he was, a come forward pressure fighter, I can't really see how his footwork had too many flaws.

rsf
01-21-2012, 08:48 AM
personally i found him quite slow on his feet

nomadman
01-21-2012, 09:23 AM
Slow yes, but not necessarily bad.

rsf
01-21-2012, 03:01 PM
Slow yes, but not necessarily bad.




i think i put not great and a little further down in my post average

New England
01-24-2012, 09:04 AM
terrific action fighter well ok , but i would sum it up a bit different probably a predictable fighter with a leaky defence with a very good right hand and not great footwork but i must admit a big heart. that if fighting a better champion would not of got his hands on the world tittle belt. world champions like minter and antuofermo would of beaten pavlik in my opinion and as much as i like minter i will admit he was not a top notch champion. even going further back to a little mentioned tittle holder like billy soose would of given pavlik a shellacking . this of course is purely my own humble opinion which i fully expect you to disagree with . but if we all agreed these forums would be very boring

a very exciting fantasy match up which pavlik would of won would be against mark kaylor a fighter that could bang with not a great defence and average footwork that liked to go war. pavlik having the better chin and the edge in power would win a wild one by stoppage



hmm
well actually i'd pick antuofermo to win (if his grill held up)
as well as minter if his chin holds up

not incredibly familliar with billy soose but i've seen him in passing
he fought some incredible fighters and stayed on his feet, so i dont doubt he would give pavlik problems.


dont get me wrong, dude

pavlik is not a historic level MW at any rate

he's half of a terrific fight, though.

Ray Corso
01-24-2012, 10:07 AM
This young man took advantage of his opportunity and did very well. He was a great competitor and came to fight and thats what fans want!
I couldn't use the term "great" as far as his abilities but not being a great fighter doesn't mean you can't be in great fights. I'm sorry to hear he has lost respect for himself, being a pro fighter has alot a pitfalls and once your boxing life stops theres so many who struggle with closer. I wish him well. Ray

rsf
01-25-2012, 12:52 PM
hmm
well actually i'd pick antuofermo to win (if his grill held up)
as well as minter if his chin holds up

not incredibly familliar with billy soose but i've seen him in passing
he fought some incredible fighters and stayed on his feet, so i dont doubt he would give pavlik problems.


dont get me wrong, dude

pavlik is not a historic level MW at any rate

he's half of a terrific fight, though.


soose did have a big punch early in his career but hand trouble made him turn boxer i think he would of been beating pavlik by a wide points margin .


i dont think i read your thread opening post properly :o:dunce:

underoath777
01-25-2012, 02:11 PM
the wine/hard alcohol analogy is really spot on.

New England
01-25-2012, 05:48 PM
soose did have a big punch early in his career but hand trouble made him turn boxer i think he would of been beating pavlik by a wide points margin .


i dont think i read your thread opening post properly :o:dunce:



haha that's fine

i thought you were just here to be a smart ass and give me a hard time at the outset

SouthPawHitman
10-22-2015, 03:16 PM
http://opinioncenter.li/static/c966cf9b377cb4f0be95e7910ab47d35.jpg

billeau2
10-22-2015, 08:11 PM
haha that's fine

i thought you were just here to be a smart ass and give me a hard time at the outset

I thought that was my job! Ok Pavlik...

A lot of subtle things done well in addition to what has been mentioned. Like a lot of Messican fightars pavlok could mix speeds on his punches and had a great punch selection to compliment changing speeds on his delivery.

his footwork was not designed to be quick, rather to stalk and he did this well, if one looks at his movement it allowed him to set up his punches very well.

Kelly really was his own worse enemy, no crime in losing to Hopkins. Hopkins found a way to time him. Dude had skills, not a gigantic puncher but a big puncher and not as bad defensively as some seem to think.

Rhetorical question: How would it have benefitted pavlik to have faster feet? I can't think of how it would have made him better.

Good fighter verging on coulda been great perhaps.

Sugar Adam Ali
10-22-2015, 08:35 PM
Loved pavlik until hopkins took his soul and personal demons ruined Pavlik...

I remember first reading about pavlik and watched him a few times as a prospect.. Since he was with top rank, he usually secured a spot on the major cards.. They moved him along nicely, and pavlik kept passing all the tests on his way up the ladder.. The first time he faced a ranked guy was zertuchi and pavlik ko'd him..
Then Miranda was considered a monster after his first fight with abraham and pavlik was chosen to provide a good action opponent for Miranda as hbo was trying to build a taylor-miranda fight.. Pavlik crushed Miranda, and got the taylor, and the rest is history..

Pavlik-taylor 1 was an unforgettable fight..

I really wish pavlik would a have hung around more and not let personal demons consume him.. He left a lot of big money on the table.. Ward, froch, chavez jr, paul Williams, etc

IMDAZED
10-23-2015, 06:49 PM
I really liked Pavlik as he was coming up. Enjoyed the McKart fights and you can't say enough about the Miranda and Taylor I performances.

I don't think he was suited for the higher weights. The extra weight made his footwork slower and his power was neutralized a bit by heavier opponents. Taylor fought surprisingly well in their rematch and deserves credit for making it a fairly even affair but Pavlik had no business being anywhere near a 170lb. Hopkins. I guess by the time he went back to 160, the punishment to his body in and out of the ring had taken its toll.

Sugar Adam Ali
10-23-2015, 09:06 PM
Would have loved to seen pavlik vs ggg

MRBOOMER
10-23-2015, 10:29 PM
It's a damn shame he faded so quick. Both Pavlik and Taylor, both the best middleweights after Hopkins looked great, and then went downhill quick.

That's what happens when you don't have defense and then face top level opposition or murderous punchers consistently

Sugar Adam Ali
10-23-2015, 11:10 PM
That's what happens when you don't have defense and then face top level opposition or murderous punchers consistently

Especially taylor... He would always back straight up, into the ropes with his hands down everytime.. I watched him as a prospect and knew one day that would be his downfall.

Taylor really didn't face any tough opposition before hopkins, so his flaw never got exploited..

Hopkins exploited in the first fight but too old to really have explosive, damaging punches.. In the rematch I thought taylor fought a lot smarter, and hopkins was always on the defense so he never made taylor go backwards, allowing jermain to hide this flaw.
Winky really exposed Taylor's flaw, but like hopkins, really didn't have the explosive power needed.. Same thing with spinks and ouma..

But pavlik was the first guy that could crack, and he wrecked taylor late in that fight, even though taylor got off to a good start.. But backing up in a straight line with your hands down is a blueprint for disaster

MRBOOMER
10-24-2015, 03:54 PM
Especially taylor... He would always back straight up, into the ropes with his hands down everytime.. I watched him as a prospect and knew one day that would be his downfall.

Taylor really didn't face any tough opposition before hopkins, so his flaw never got exploited..

Hopkins exploited in the first fight but too old to really have explosive, damaging punches.. In the rematch I thought taylor fought a lot smarter, and hopkins was always on the defense so he never made taylor go backwards, allowing jermain to hide this flaw.
Winky really exposed Taylor's flaw, but like hopkins, really didn't have the explosive power needed.. Same thing with spinks and ouma..

But pavlik was the first guy that could crack, and he wrecked taylor late in that fight, even though taylor got off to a good start.. But backing up in a straight line with your hands down is a blueprint for disaster

Yeah it was a shame for that to happen. I guess he just figured his natural athleticism would get him through it all.

billeau2
10-24-2015, 05:08 PM
Especially taylor... He would always back straight up, into the ropes with his hands down everytime.. I watched him as a prospect and knew one day that would be his downfall.

Taylor really didn't face any tough opposition before hopkins, so his flaw never got exploited..

Hopkins exploited in the first fight but too old to really have explosive, damaging punches.. In the rematch I thought taylor fought a lot smarter, and hopkins was always on the defense so he never made taylor go backwards, allowing jermain to hide this flaw.
Winky really exposed Taylor's flaw, but like hopkins, really didn't have the explosive power needed.. Same thing with spinks and ouma..

But pavlik was the first guy that could crack, and he wrecked taylor late in that fight, even though taylor got off to a good start.. But backing up in a straight line with your hands down is a blueprint for disaster

Taylor was always strong as an ox. It really bothered Hopkins, though I think he beat Taylor twice. Pavlik handled Taylor well, agreed.

Lol with all Hopkins tactics, ability, etc the one thing he would have about as much success as a one legged man at an Azz kicking contest was trying to back big ole raw boned alabama Jermaine up!!

Sugar Adam Ali
10-24-2015, 10:33 PM
Yeah it was a shame for that to happen. I guess he just figured his natural athleticism would get him through it all.

Yeah, him and chad dawson would be greats but never had the ring IQ

MRBOOMER
10-24-2015, 10:40 PM
Yeah, him and chad dawson would be greats but never had the ring IQ

I don't think Dawson lacked ring iq so much as he had no killer instinct to hurt people and made fights harder on him self. I've seen some knock outs but it's like after Ademak it all changed.

Sugar Adam Ali
10-24-2015, 10:52 PM
I don't think Dawson lacked ring iq so much as he had no killer instinct to hurt people and made fights harder on him self. I've seen some knock outs but it's like after Ademak it all changed.

No, chad dawson was dumb as ***** in the ring... He had great skills, but very predictable..

billeau2
10-25-2015, 11:59 AM
I don't think Dawson lacked ring iq so much as he had no killer instinct to hurt people and made fights harder on him self. I've seen some knock outs but it's like after Ademak it all changed.

In the olympics with the limited time, the rules, etc generally fighters don't have a lot of options when it comes to long range plans, exposing weaknesses of an opponent, and changing strategy midstream in a match. In professional prize fighting when guys don't adapt in the ring and have major weaknesses they can be exposed.

Dawson was an athletic marvel but, while I would hesitate to call him dumb, he showed he was limited technically. While everyone wants to say Dawson was drained for the Ward fight, the way Ward beat him was to set him up brilliantly...nothing to do with weight problems. This showed other fighters the way to beat Dawson.

Actually if we don't assume Jones was past it then in many respects Tarver having the anger, the drive, to just ignore Roy's feints and make Roy back up (Roy never had to use angles) may have been a similar seminal event. Roy never had to back up and like Ali when he did occasionally he did so straight back. After Ali lost to Frazier this way it affected him...Ali could adapt in the ring in this respect, Jones and Dawson could not.

people just were too enamored of Dawson's gifts to see that he might have problems if he could not rely exclusively on these gifts. Ward showed that against a guy who was really A-1 Dawson was lacking.

billeau2
10-25-2015, 12:38 PM
No, chad dawson was dumb as ***** in the ring... He had great skills, but very predictable..

Ademak = a pressure fighter. Again to use jones... He got beat and then had a nice back and fourth with Tarver who is a boxer puncher... he then got put to sleep by Glencoff, a pressure guy. What most people tend to forget is that while jones and Tarver was a back and fourth affair after the big punch in the second fight, Johnson beat Jones much more convincingly by simply applying pressure in a manner that Tarver could not. Dawson, like jones, cracked under that pressure from ademak...no mystery there.

Cotto versus Margarito first fight...handwraps be damned! Cotto is looking spectacular when suddenly margarito starts walking through his shots and Cotto is unable to keep him off, tie him up at least....winds up getting destroyed. While Cotto is not a finesse guy the point is that a good pressure fighter will find a ch1nk in the armour, and when one cannot adjust to this constant pressure the end is inevitable. Dawson turned out to be unable as a professional to make the kind of adjustments in the ring necessary to deal with pressure.

LuisConcepcion
10-25-2015, 08:26 PM
Pavlik vs GGG would be nothing short of truly epic

ShoulderRoll
10-29-2015, 10:31 AM
I was so impressed with how Pavlik weathered the storm and won the belt off Jermain Taylor in their first fight. Then when he won the rematch I thought for sure he would be around a long time.

Wish he would have fought Arthur Abraham when that bout was hot, he would have won conclusively in my opinion and his momentum would have gone through the roof. It's a shame that he didn't live up to all his potential.

Regarding Chad Dawson...he was a great athlete with damn good skills (especially when he was with Floyd Sr) and managed to collect some pretty big scalps on his resume. Hopkins, Tarver, prime Adamek. Another guy that could have accomplished so much more than he did.