View Full Version : Does anybody believe that Jack Johnson....


T.Horton
01-13-2012, 10:30 PM
Violated the Mann Act or do you believe there was a frame-up?

Mike Tyson77
01-14-2012, 11:37 PM
Dude...Jack didnt brake no law. Jack Johnson is one of the GREATEST EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was 50 years ahead of his time.

Mannie Phresh
01-15-2012, 12:07 AM
the man act was bull**** anyways. and wasnt the white prostitute they busted him for transporting across state lines his wife? it was just a frame up cuz they couldnt stand a loud mouth black champ that couldnt be whipped

NChristo
01-15-2012, 12:23 AM
He violated it, for the 1st case anyway but of course all charges were dropped and he married the woman, the 2nd case it's highly possible he was framed and him leaving the country with his wife makes it look more so (Imo, I mean who would go straight back to their wife after being accused of going with a hooker :lol1:) and the all white jury is suspicious, but honestly given his track record with prostitutes it wouldn't surprise me if he did it really, either way looking back the Mann act was of course just bollocks used to harass him, they (allegedly) found a way too put him behind bars took it in the blink of an eye.

Miburo
01-15-2012, 12:30 AM
He probably did violate it, but of course they were looking to hit him with anything and it was a BS application of the law.

rob snell
01-15-2012, 01:30 PM
Johnson was a thug who battered a woman into hospital.

T.Horton
01-16-2012, 04:04 PM
Johnson was a thug who battered a woman into hospital.true but that doesn't mean that he violated the mann act, does it?

T.Horton
01-16-2012, 04:05 PM
the man act was bull**** anyways. and wasnt the white prostitute they busted him for transporting across state lines his wife? it was just a frame up cuz they couldnt stand a loud mouth black champ that couldnt be whippedthe act stated (paraphrasing) that he had to be transporting women for the sole purpose of profiting. to my knowledge Johnson was not a pimp.

Barn
01-16-2012, 04:12 PM
the act stated (paraphrasing) that he had to be transporting women for the sole purpose of profiting. to my knowledge Johnson was not a pimp.
Yeah but, they could put him down because it actually stated "immoral purposes." Which isn't a concrete boundary and apart from the obvious things, what someone may deem immoral someone else may not. The white man used this to their advantage.

Barn
01-16-2012, 04:14 PM
Yeah but, they could put him down because it actually stated "immoral purposes." Which isn't a concrete boundary and apart from the obvious things, what someone may deem immoral someone else may not. The white man used this to their advantage.
Here's a nice quote, yeah it's from Wikipedia but, it sums up nicely what I'm saying above.

It's ambiguous immorality language allowed selective prosecutions for many years, and was used to criminalize forms of consensual sexual behaviour.

Kid McCoy
01-17-2012, 08:12 AM
Yes, he was guilty. Johnson regularly consorted with prostitutes, traveled across state lines with prostitutes, pimped them out of his Chicago restaurant, loaned one the money to set up her own whorehouse and married at least one of them. He was exactly the kind of person the Mann Act was targeting.

T.Horton
01-17-2012, 09:26 AM
Yes, he was guilty. Johnson regularly consorted with prostitutes, traveled across state lines with prostitutes, pimped them out of his Chicago restaurant, loaned one the money to set up her own whorehouse and married at least one of them. He was exactly the kind of person the Mann Act was targeting.^^^ none of this stuff was actually illegal though, aside from the pimping. and there is no proof that he was a pimp in all that i have read.

Mannie Phresh
01-17-2012, 09:58 AM
^^^ none of this stuff was actually illegal though, aside from the pimping. and there is no proof that he was a pimp in all that i have read.

watched unforgivable blackness on netflix they never said hewas a pimp but he ran ran establishments that had prostitution.

Kid McCoy
01-17-2012, 10:40 AM
^^^ none of this stuff was actually illegal though, aside from the pimping. and there is no proof that he was a pimp in all that i have read.

Johnson's restaurant in Chicago doubled up as a whorehouse. What with that and all his other behaviour, he was a pimp by most definitions. If there's a law designed to stop the interstate trafficking of women for immoral purposes and you have a man who's traveling around the country with prostitutes, and also owns and operates a whorehouse, then he's guilty of violating the Mann Act. You can argue about whether such a law was justified in the first place, but by the letter of that law, he was guilty.

T.Horton
01-17-2012, 10:44 AM
Johnson's restaurant in Chicago doubled up as a whorehouse. If there's a law designed to stop the interstate trafficking of women for immoral purposes and you have a man who's traveling around the country with prostitutes, and also owns and operates a whorehouse, then he's guilty of violating the Mann Act. You can argue about whether such a law was justified in the first place, but by the letter of that law, he was guilty.The Champion's cafe was not a whorehouse. Not from my understanding anyway....

Mannie Phresh
01-17-2012, 10:45 AM
Johnson's restaurant in Chicago doubled up as a whorehouse. What with that and all his other behaviour, he was a pimp by most definitions. If there's a law designed to stop the interstate trafficking of women for immoral purposes and you have a man who's traveling around the country with prostitutes, and also owns and operates a whorehouse, then he's guilty of violating the Mann Act. You can argue about whether such a law was justified in the first place, but by the letter of that law, he was guilty.

i think that they just want the loud mouth black champ gone

T.Horton
01-17-2012, 10:48 AM
watched unforgivable blackness on netflix they never said hewas a pimp but he ran ran establishments that had prostitution.I thought it was more that he allowed prostitutes in - it's not really Johnson's fault if hookers are plying their trade. I kind of think Johnson cared just about the money that these types of women would generate. I do not believe that these women were paying him to use the establishment for prostitution - if they were Johnson would have been a pimp.

If you get the chance read Randy Roberts book as well. Papa Jack.

T.Horton
01-17-2012, 10:50 AM
Johnson's restaurant in Chicago doubled up as a whorehouse. What with that and all his other behaviour, he was a pimp by most definitions. If there's a law designed to stop the interstate trafficking of women for immoral purposes and you have a man who's traveling around the country with prostitutes, and also owns and operates a whorehouse, then he's guilty of violating the Mann Act. You can argue about whether such a law was justified in the first place, but by the letter of that law, he was guilty.and from all of the accounts i have seen or read, we was not profiting directly from prostitution (as the Act states that you have to) and thus could not have been a pimp. The Roberts' book went into The Mann Act pretty extensively.

Kid McCoy
01-17-2012, 12:03 PM
The Champion's cafe was not a whorehouse. Not from my understanding anyway....

It was. The second floor was a whorehouse. If he was running prostitutes out of his own establishment, I don't really see how he wasn't profiting from it. And you didn't have to profit financially in order to be violate the act, it just concerns the transportation of women for "immoral purposes". The first two men charged under the act had done nothing more than take their girlfriends away for a holiday.

i think that they just want the loud mouth black champ gone

I'm sure they did, but Johnson's behaviour made it a lot easier for them.

T.Horton
01-17-2012, 12:09 PM
It was. The second floor was a whorehouse. If he was running prostitutes out of his own establishment, I don't really see how he wasn't profiting from it. And you didn't have to profit financially in order to be violate the act, it just concerns the transportation of women for "immoral purposes". The first two men charged under the act had done nothing more than take their girlfriends away for a holiday.



I'm sure they did, but Johnson's behaviour made it a lot easier for them. am going to try and find some quotes - the original reason was to stop interstate trafficking of prostitutes, namely those brought into the country, just traveling with hookers isn't the same.

Johnson having a motel upstairs is not the same as being a pimp or madam.

T.Horton
01-17-2012, 12:10 PM
It was. The second floor was a whorehouse. If he was running prostitutes out of his own establishment, I don't really see how he wasn't profiting from it. And you didn't have to profit financially in order to be violate the act, it just concerns the transportation of women for "immoral purposes". The first two men charged under the act had done nothing more than take their girlfriends away for a holiday.



I'm sure they did, but Johnson's behaviour made it a lot easier for them.do you have a link or a quote to the bolded?

Greatest1942
01-17-2012, 09:12 PM
do you have a link or a quote to the bolded?

can't supply the 1st one immediately, but here is a WOMAN who alleged the same about Johnson :-

" Agents soon traced Johnson's former companion Belle Schreiber to a whorehouse in the nation's capital. Cmemory of dates and places seemed encyclopedic, and her bitterness at Johnson's treatment of her made her just the witness investigators were looking for. Within days, the federal grand jury had issued seven Mann Act indictments, charging Johnson with transporting Schreiber from Pittsburgh to Chicago on October 15, 1910, for the purpose of prostitution and debauchery. Johnson was arrested on November 7, and Judge Kennesaw Mountain Landis (who would one day become the first commissioner of baseball and ensure that the sport remained segregated) set bail at $30,000, then threw both Johnson and his bail bondsman into the Cook County Jail. It took a week to bail them out"

Other interesting reads :-

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=NIYLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9lMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5538,1486952&dq=jack+johnson+schreiber&hl=en

But to the best of my knowledge (unless I am missing something, I do have tons of material about that era), it will be hard to prove conclusively that he ran a whorehouse.

Kid McCoy
01-18-2012, 06:50 AM
am going to try and find some quotes - the original reason was to stop interstate trafficking of prostitutes, namely those brought into the country, just traveling with hookers isn't the same.

Johnson having a motel upstairs is not the same as being a pimp or madam.

No I don't have a link. I'll have a root around and see what I can find. It may have been officially called a motel but if so it was a motel used by ladies of the night and their clients...

T.Horton
01-18-2012, 08:44 AM
can't supply the 1st one immediately, but here is a WOMAN who alleged the same about Johnson :-

" Agents soon traced Johnson's former companion Belle Schreiber to a whorehouse in the nation's capital. Cmemory of dates and places seemed encyclopedic, and her bitterness at Johnson's treatment of her made her just the witness investigators were looking for. Within days, the federal grand jury had issued seven Mann Act indictments, charging Johnson with transporting Schreiber from Pittsburgh to Chicago on October 15, 1910, for the purpose of prostitution and debauchery. Johnson was arrested on November 7, and Judge Kennesaw Mountain Landis (who would one day become the first commissioner of baseball and ensure that the sport remained segregated) set bail at $30,000, then threw both Johnson and his bail bondsman into the Cook County Jail. It took a week to bail them out"

Other interesting reads :-

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=NIYLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9lMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5538,1486952&dq=jack+johnson+schreiber&hl=en

But to the best of my knowledge (unless I am missing something, I do have tons of material about that era), it will be hard to prove conclusively that he ran a whorehouse.Thanks for this. That is a direct quote from Roberts book....at least he used it, I don't if others have. In any case, yeah, it is tough to prove that he had any part of the prostitutes aside from bedding them.

rob snell
01-18-2012, 11:00 AM
The legality of his conviction has been the topic of many a debate for years and will I am sure will continue without agreement. What is clear and for the most part accepted is that Johnson was targeted due to his amazing ability to enrage the white population by having sex with white women.

He went out of his way to shove it in their faces and clearly loved every minute of it. Jouhnson was an arrogant fool right upto his death and the idea of the pardon was a transparent stunt to promote the sale of the book and film - which worked as I bought both.

i think that had he stayed in the States the KKK would have lynched him when he got out of prison. The only person who has come close to the ability to enrage the US govt. and white americans is of course Ali, who's conversion to religion was so convenient and used as a stick to wave in the face of his opponents. A black man getting in touch with his roots and refusing to do the bidding of his white masters.

Why people persist in believing his reasons for dodging the draft is of constant amusement to me, and as he celebrates his birthday I am certain he would be thinking to himself how well he did in suckering people. I think for that he sure was the greatest

GJC
01-18-2012, 06:31 PM
The only person who has come close to the ability to enrage the US govt. and white americans is of course Ali, who's conversion to religion was so convenient and used as a stick to wave in the face of his opponents. A black man getting in touch with his roots and refusing to do the bidding of his white masters.

Why people persist in believing his reasons for dodging the draft is of constant amusement to me, and as he celebrates his birthday I am certain he would be thinking to himself how well he did in suckering people. I think for that he sure was the greatest
Always felt that Ali's religion was sincerely felt and he is a Muslem to this day albeit not NOI. Think that the only cynics were the NOI who to my mind used Ali. I look at it that he was an angry young man who was drawn down one path and mellowed over the years, as we all do, and "amended" his religion to what he is today, a Sunni Muslem (?)
Back to the thread, Johnson wasn't a nice man and probably broadly did what he was accused of. Did the authorities gild the lilly and make the crime fit him? For sure, if they are out to get you they will, don't think that's changed much. The way Johnson lived his life he didn't do himself or his race many favours.

El Jesus
01-20-2012, 09:15 PM
Johnson was a thug who battered a woman into hospital.

domestic violence like that was pretty damn widespread then, not to excuse it, but it was a different time when that stuff was pretty acceptable. im pretty sure your grandfather did the same, you probably just aint gonna hear about it.

rob snell
01-21-2012, 07:01 AM
you make a very valid point on domestic violence and how common it was. Not happy about my grandfather though !!

WeltshmerzKO
02-12-2013, 11:53 PM
Jack Johnson was framed, no doubt about it. Did a race and ideology essay on it for uni. If anyone is unfamiliar with his story or wants to learn more i would recommend a great documentary called "Unforgivable Blackness" which was done by PBS. should be on youtube, I'm sure most on boxing scene have seen it but if your haven't check it out!

T.Horton
02-15-2013, 09:32 PM
Jack Johnson was framed, no doubt about it. Did a race and ideology essay on it for uni. If anyone is unfamiliar with his story or wants to learn more i would recommend a great documentary called "Unforgivable Blackness" which was done by PBS. should be on youtube, I'm sure most on boxing scene have seen it but if your haven't check it out!i would actually like to read your essay if you'd allow it.

Mannie Phresh
02-15-2013, 10:44 PM
He may have technically but it was a bs law and wasnt he married ti her when they allege it happened?

Mannie Phresh
02-16-2013, 12:42 AM
He may have technically but it was a bs law and wasnt he married ti her when they allege it happened?

Panamaniac
02-16-2013, 03:44 PM
To judge for yourself, click here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Johnson_(boxer)#Prison_sentence)

elfag
02-16-2013, 08:10 PM
Yeah was a black criminal why is that so surprising to people?

T.Horton
02-16-2013, 08:27 PM
Yeah was a black criminal why is that so surprising to people?come on man. :stupid:

your mother is a black criminal named Ray Ray.

T.Horton
02-16-2013, 08:29 PM
To judge for yourself, click here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Johnson_(boxer)#Prison_sentence)thanks! there isn't too much new info...but i guess we won't ever have any.

ROSS CALIFORNIA
02-21-2013, 01:18 PM
the man act was bull**** anyways. and wasnt the white prostitute they busted him for transporting across state lines his wife? it was just a frame up cuz they couldnt stand a loud mouth black champ that couldnt be whipped

This.......

DreamFighter
03-01-2013, 07:02 PM
Jackson Johnson was The Man act.