View Full Version : Fedor is boss at striking


monaroCountry
12-31-2011, 06:25 PM
The fight starts at 10 minutes in the video. Fedor's combo and accuracy and power is fantastic.

Even covering up, Fedor still opened Ishii's defences. Fedor's standup seems ahead of all other HW's. Good job working with top kickboxers.

Look at near the end, Josh Barnett looked like he just picked up Fedor and Tim Silvia looked like the third wheel lol.
http://youtu.be/6q-CYlJNYYg

MARKBNLV
12-31-2011, 06:40 PM
He was good in pride.since then not so much

monaroCountry
12-31-2011, 09:59 PM
This shows that your such a noob, you also probably predicted a Lesnar win. Since Dana told all his zombie followers that Brock was the baddest man in the planet.

Fedor showd great standup, precise powerful anf fast. Hes mixing it up more with kicks, knees, punches. And hes still a boss on the ground and unlike old Fedor this new one wont be following a BJJ wizard on the ground.

All these Zuffa hyped fighters have been exposed as frauds, Overeem just finished two of them in quick succession. I think Fedor, Sergei, and Josh (the old and experienced Pride guards that includes Overeem) would slaughter these so called UFC new breeds.

monaroCountry
12-31-2011, 10:05 PM
He was good in pride.since then not so much

Im sorry if your hero Brock Lesnar lost. He was afterall the baddest man and the #1 HW of the world. Too bad he has allergies to :boxing::boxing::boxing:

Flab
12-31-2011, 10:27 PM
Fedor is a clean shaven Tank Abbott.

Boxingtech718v2
01-01-2012, 12:20 AM
But.........................it was Ishi.....not that impressive.

Dude lost to Dan Henderson and hasn't even entertained a rematch. He's done.

monaroCountry
01-01-2012, 01:13 AM
But.........................it was Ishi.....not that impressive.

Dude lost to Dan Henderson and hasn't even entertained a rematch. He's done.

JDS lost to Joaquim Ferreira______who? Joaquim Ferreira, a LHW with a ****ty record who not many people have heard of.

I like JDS and he is a good fighter, its just Dana's zombies that is hyping him up to the high heavens. For gods sake JDS isnt too proven, hasnt shown top level grappling or extraordinary striking. Let JDS earn his status as a top fighter, Fedor has already earnt his.

Boxingtech718v2
01-01-2012, 01:42 AM
JDS lost to Joaquim Ferreira______who? Joaquim Ferreira, a LHW with a ****ty record who not many people have heard of.

I like JDS and he is a good fighter, its just Dana's zombies that is hyping him up to the high heavens. For gods sake JDS isnt too proven, hasnt shown top level grappling or extraordinary striking. Let JDS earn his status as a top fighter, Fedor has already earnt his.

Fedor WAS great his best days are behind him. From here on out I don't see him facing any top HWs until he's ready to cash out. I'm not taking anything away from his prime but right now it's obvious that age and wear have caught up. Also why all the DW hate, dude has done a lot for mma people should be a little grateful.

Clegg
01-01-2012, 03:29 AM
TS is very annoying.

Virgil Caine
01-01-2012, 04:47 AM
Fedor is a clean shaven Tank Abbott.

lol, now you're just trollin for a reaction. Try to be a little less obvious next time.

But.........................it was Ishi.....not that impressive.

Dude lost to Dan Henderson and hasn't even entertained a rematch. He's done.

Ishii is certainly not a worldclass opponent, and this also bore out in the fight. Fedor showed he can still hang with judo gold medalists in the clinch though, if nothing else. Ishii got a leg, and went for a takedown which failed, but the single leg is certainly not a judoka's forte; he did however use it to establish a clinch against the ropes. Fedor used his great strength, especially his hip strength, and also his tremendous judo and sambo clinch game (he's the best combat sambo artist in history, and was the second best (though he claims politics kept him out of the #1 spot, and who knows he could be right) in Russia, a very tough judo country, for many years. He redirected Ishii, again a 2008 judo Olympics champion, and sent him to the ground, very impressive stuff.

Also, Fedor showed great handspeed in this fight. It is more difficult to gauge on video, but I was in the arena. The leg kick is sort of a new tool in his arsenal, in that he didn't use it much in the past.

Fedor lost 3 fights in a row. It happens. Few would argue that he wasn't winning the Werdum or the Henderson fight, prior to the stoppages. A loss is a loss. Many fighters never recover from a loss. What the future holds for Fedor is still anyone's guess. But if you watch the fights, and don't just troll message boards, it should be obvious enough that the guy still has a tremendous amount of ability. His reflexes are not shot. He isn't getting knocked out unconscious every time he receives a tap on the chin, ala Chuck Liddell. He still has the ability to hang with anybody in the world, I don't care who. Whether or not he would win a particular given fight is simply anyone's guess, but he is still a world class fighter. He was the best fighter in the sport for years, and no longer reigns supreme, but he is still a top fighter, and he is apparently intent on continuing on. So where is the need to denigrate.

monaroCountry
01-01-2012, 06:39 AM
TS is very annoying.

thats a usefull comment, now to back to :wank: on a picture of Brock like a good zombie.

Clegg
01-01-2012, 07:18 AM
thats a usefull comment, now to back to :wank: on a picture of Brock like a good zombie.

Fedor is my favourite fighter, I picked Reem to beat Lesnar and won money betting on it. I just think that you're a joke of a poster and a complete clown.

Gojira
01-01-2012, 09:09 AM
I still feel Fedor could beat Overeem but unfortunately I doubt we'll be seeing this fight anytime soon.

kaps
01-01-2012, 09:11 AM
Fedor is the GOAT.....

BKM-2010
01-01-2012, 10:22 AM
Fedor is so good at striking nowadays that Henderson rocked him early before knocking him out in a clinch(No top HW today would get KO'd by Hendo). And that Bigfoot who was outstruck by Werdum and KO'd by Cormier, was able to outbox Fedor, avoid his wild punches and hit him at will. oustruck him.

Look Fedor was one of my favorites but he doesn't have the fight IQ and physical abilities anymore to be the best. Only thing his last fights showed that he can still dominate b or c level fighters. But put him up against any of the top 5 Heavyweights and he would lose. Too wild, unintelligent and physically inferior at this time. The dumbass TS is a troll who can't let go of the past so ignore him.

Virgil Caine
01-01-2012, 10:27 AM
Fedor is so good at striking nowadays that Henderson rocked him early before knocking him out in a clinch(No top HW today would get KO'd by Hendo). And that Bigfoot who was outstruck by Werdum and KO'd by Cormier, was able to outbox Fedor, avoid his wild punches and hit him at will. oustruck him.

Look Fedor was one of my favorites but he doesn't have the fight IQ and physical abilities anymore to be the best. Only thing his last fights showed that he can still dominate b or c level fighters. But put him up against any of the top 5 Heavyweights and he would lose. Too wild, unintelligent and physically inferior at this time. The dumbass TS is a troll who can't let go of the past so ignore him.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n33/emmahatesbananas/You.jpg

BKM-2010
01-01-2012, 10:35 AM
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n33/emmahatesbananas/You.jpg

http://lolpie.com/images/archive/content/1/3/lol-why-u-mad-tho-U9bbc.jpg

Virgil Caine
01-01-2012, 10:42 AM
http://lolpie.com/images/archive/content/1/3/lol-why-u-mad-tho-U9bbc.jpg

http://******************/cache/instances/400x/9/10178/10422470.jpg

BKM-2010
01-01-2012, 10:50 AM
Keep going bro, but it's not going to change the fact that Fedor is not one of the best at striking. Face reality.

http://i56.tinypic.com/212wkm1.gif

http://i51.tinypic.com/2gtrree.gif

http://i53.tinypic.com/63vupu.gif

This guy Bigfoot was KTFO in 1 round by Daniel Cormier in his next fight.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UgnHUC2k5_4/TjTd6W6LuvI/AAAAAAAAEU0/0QsN7M9niVU/s1600/1.gif

But if you want to believe he's the best striker because he outstruck Monson and Ishii, go ahead.

Virgil Caine
01-01-2012, 10:54 AM
Where did I say he is "the best striker"?

He is a good striker.

He has an unorthidox punching style, and he has holes and vulnerabilities. Nevertheless, he is still a very good striker, and has very fast hands, and very good power.

His base is grappling, specifically judo and sambo.

What he is though is the best MMA fighter in history.

Boxingtech718v2
01-01-2012, 12:09 PM
Where did I say he is "the best striker"?

He is a good striker.

He has an unorthidox punching style, and he has holes and vulnerabilities. Nevertheless, he is still a very good striker, and has very fast hands, and very good power.

His base is grappling, specifically judo and sambo.

What he is though is the best MMA fighter in history.

I think later in his career Fedor started believing a little too much in his own legend and came out too much balls to the wall, swinging for the KO off the bat. When he uses his full arsenal of techniques and shows some caution he can still be dangerous. But against guys his size. I think the combination of age, damage, and the new class of super huge HW's is too much for him now. Honestly Fedor probably could comfortably cut to LHW and tool JJ right now. The fact that he ruled HW as a pudge LHW was awesome back in his day. But I don't think that's going to cut it anymore.

Virgil Caine
01-01-2012, 12:16 PM
I think later in his career Fedor started believing a little too much in his own legend and came out too much balls to the wall, swinging for the KO off the bat. When he uses his full arsenal of techniques and shows some caution he can still be dangerous. But against guys his size. I think the combination of age, damage, and the new class of super huge HW's is too much for him now. Honestly Fedor probably could comfortably cut to LHW and tool JJ right now. The fact that he ruled HW as a pudge LHW was awesome back in his day. But I don't think that's going to cut it anymore.
I agree with most of this. He certainly could cut to LHW, and he is indeed undersized for this HW division. I don't think he will though. I do think he's solid at 230+, although he does carry some pudginess. He nevertheless seems to perform well at the weight.

You are right though, in that the landscape has changed, and the young lions are always a threat to the old war horses. I guess that is why he needs to become a cagey veteran and utilize the tools he has, rather than looking to just spark guys out all the time, like he use to do in his glory days. Just my read on the situation, pretty much.

monaroCountry
01-01-2012, 12:25 PM
I still feel Fedor could beat Overeem but unfortunately I doubt we'll be seeing this fight anytime soon.

Which is a shame since UFC doesnt work or deal with anyone else, apart from when they are dismantling other companies/promotions.

Fedor is so good at striking nowadays that Henderson rocked him early before knocking him out in a clinch(No top HW today would get KO'd by Hendo). And that Bigfoot who was outstruck by Werdum and KO'd by Cormier, was able to outbox Fedor, avoid his wild punches and hit him at will. oustruck him.

That punch was pretty much a lucky punch that happened on the ground when both men were rolling around. A clean punch that Fedor pretty much recovered instantly. Other Zuffa approved fighters would have been given and have been given more time. Hell Carwin punched Brock for the whole round 1 without any answer.

Look Fedor was one of my favorites but he doesn't have the fight IQ and physical abilities anymore to be the best. Only thing his last fights showed that he can still dominate b or c level fighters. But put him up against any of the top 5 Heavyweights and he would lose. Too wild, unintelligent and physically inferior at this time. The dumbass TS is a troll who can't let go of the past so ignore him.

Stop ****ing bull****ting about Fedor being one of your favourites. Thats as true as me saying that Brock is a fav of mine and that hes a legit top 10 fighter.

Hoost and a whole bunch of respected martial arts fighter disagrees with you. Fedor is a very smart fighter, he was in his Pride days and is currently fighting a very smart fight in his last two fights. His wild fights that happened in Werdum, Bigfoot, and even Hendo seemed to have disappeared completely.

Fedor also has a very good striking and ground game and you abviously havent been watching his Monson and Ishii fight where he was pretty clinical in how he fought (no longer wild at all). Name me another HW fighter with more top 10 wins, especially top ten wins against other fighters in their PRIME.

The new Fedor actually guages his distance far better, far cleaner and more accurate shots, mixes up his standup better, actually uses more kicks now, no longer bounces around the ring/cage like a crazed animal but instead has started stalking his opponent like other Dutch trained kickboxers (look at how Overeem and Gegard stalks their opponents)
Keep going bro, but it's not going to change the fact that Fedor is not one of the best at striking. Face reality.



But if you want to believe he's the best striker because he outstruck Monson and Ishii, go ahead.

Thats the old wild Fedor.

If you actually watched Fedor's two recent fights then you would notice the huge differences in his fighting style and gameplan. This is the new Fedor.

Very sweet fast accurate combo, with a straight that broke Ishii's nose, followed by an uppercut, and then finishing it off with a punch on the sweet spot behind the ear area what would F U up and best place to KO someone / stuff up their equilibrium.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/zombi_king/ishii2.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/zombi_king/ishii.gif

Agaisnt Monson, Fedor was far more dominant more technical and had a more intellegent fight against Monson that Cornier was against Monson. Fedor snapped off Monson's legs, peppered him with punches and I dont think Fedor even got touched by any of Monson's punches.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rel3AHztE24/TskYBYDk-SI/AAAAAAAAGWg/drm_j9WENes/s1600/4.gif
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cC6gVNuvL6Y/TskYFgumKjI/AAAAAAAAGWo/7C_TQg_394E/s1600/5.gif



What he is though is the best MMA fighter in history.

You actually know your stuff unlike troll boxkickboxmma.

BKM-2010
01-01-2012, 01:12 PM
That punch was pretty much a lucky punch that happened on the ground when both men were rolling around. A clean punch that Fedor pretty much recovered instantly. Other Zuffa approved fighters would have been given and have been given more time. Hell Carwin punched Brock for the whole round 1 without any answer.

Ok so Hendo hit him with a lucky punch + it was an early stoppage. Got it.

Thanks for showing us what Fedor fanboys are all about. These are exactly the kind of examples I was hoping to come across to prove my point.


Stop ****ing bull****ting about Fedor being one of your favourites. Thats as true as me saying that Brock is a fav of mine and that hes a legit top 10 fighter.

Hoost and a whole bunch of respected martial arts fighter disagrees with you. Fedor is a very smart fighter, he was in his Pride days and is currently fighting a very smart fight in his last two fights. His wild fights that happened in Werdum, Bigfoot, and even Hendo seemed to have disappeared completely.

I didn't say Fedor is my favorite. I said he WAS one of my favorites. Before greed and arrogance got the best of his career. Or I guess you guys blame all of his faults on M-1 or in your case the UFC.

Fedor CAN be a very smart fighter but he is not anymore today when he faces top level fighters. And he obviously doesn't have the same groundgame anymore. He was schooled by Bigfoot on the ground making rookie mistakes. He's been focusing too much on his striking and even then he was outstruck by Bigfoot and almost by LHW Hendo.

Oh and "his wild side has dissapeared completely"? try this. HE'S FIGHTING CANS NOW so his 'wild side' doesn't come out.

Fedor also has a very good striking and ground game and you abviously havent been watching his Monson and Ishii fight where he was pretty clinical in how he fought (no longer wild at all). Name me another HW fighter with more top 10 wins, especially top ten wins against other fighters in their PRIME.

Name you a HW fighter with more top 10 wins? Minotauro Nogueira. You ask, I answer.

The new Fedor actually guages his distance far better, far cleaner and more accurate shots, mixes up his standup better, actually uses more kicks now, no longer bounces around the ring/cage like a crazed animal but instead has started stalking his opponent like other Dutch trained kickboxers (look at how Overeem and Gegard stalks their opponents)


Thats the old wild Fedor.

If you actually watched Fedor's two recent fights then you would notice the huge differences in his fighting style and gameplan. This is the new Fedor.

Very sweet fast accurate combo, with a straight that broke Ishii's nose, followed by an uppercut, and then finishing it off with a punch on the sweet spot behind the ear area what would F U up and best place to KO someone / stuff up their equilibrium

Haha so this is your new strategy. This is a "new Fedor"?? Again, he's fighting cans there. Fedor did not all of a sudden learns how to kickbox like a Dutchman in a span of a few months after his 3 losses. Fedor went over to Holland to train his striking in a couple of his losses as well this year. He had a meet and greet a couple miles away from me. Where were all these kickboxing skills then when he faced BF and Hendo?

Monson and Ishii were **** scared on the feet and especially Ishii is terrible striking. It is easy to look amazing against such level of competition in a ring. He's facing Monson and Ishii, not Overeem or Dos Santos because they would just slaughter him. When he faces top fighters in a cage he can't keep his composure anymore. He's not a top 10 fighter today and he would lose against all the top 5 guys right now. You're a biased clown who needs to let go of his fantasies. It's over kid. It's 2012 and his time is over.

Spray_resistant
01-01-2012, 01:30 PM
I still feel Fedor could beat Overeem but unfortunately I doubt we'll be seeing this fight anytime soon.

Nah I doubt it now, this was a good stay busy fight but he didn't meet much resistance really.

Virgil Caine
01-01-2012, 01:30 PM
Haha so this is your new strategy. This is a "new Fedor"?? Again, he's fighting cans there. Fedor did not all of a sudden learns how to kickbox like a Dutchman in a span of a few months after his 3 losses. Fedor went over to Holland to train his striking in a couple of his losses as well this year. He had a meet and greet a couple miles away from me. Where were all these kickboxing skills then when he faced BF and Hendo?


Exposed as a new fan who doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

Fedor did not just now merely train in Holland for 3 months.

He has trained in Holland a number of times in the past.

If you had actually followed/were knowledgeable about his career, perhaps you would know about, say, his extensive training camp in Holland prior to his fight against Cro Cop.

He has been training with Ernesto Hoost for years. You think he just became acquainted with Hoost 3 months ago?

Seriously man, go back to Sherdog.

BKM-2010
01-01-2012, 01:36 PM
Exposed as a new fan who doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

Fedor did not just now merely train in Holland for 3 months.

He has trained in Holland a number of times in the past.

If you had actually followed/were knowledgeable about his career, perhaps you would know about, say, his extensive training camp in Holland prior to his fight against Cro Cop.

He has been training with Ernesto Hoost for years. You think he just became acquainted with Hoost 3 months ago?

Seriously man, go back to Sherdog.

That's exactly what I said. This aint the first time he has trained in Holland, so it doesn't mean he's all of a sudden a much better striker now since his 3 losses. and I know he trained with Tyrone Spong, Remy Bonjasky and others for the Cro Cop fight as well.

You're getting very desperate and pathetic now. Putting words into my mouth and telling blatant lies now is that your new tactic? No yank is gonna tell a Dutch guy about Fedor's training in Holland. I've been on the dutch Mixfight forum for years and every time Fedor came over for his training there were long threads and hype about it. Huge threads of people participating for meet and greets in cities here in Holland. You don't know what you're talking about.

MARKBNLV
01-01-2012, 01:44 PM
Im sorry if your hero Brock Lesnar lost. He was afterall the baddest man and the #1 HW of the world. Too bad he has allergies to :boxing::boxing::boxing:

My hero i am barely a fan,sorry if i disrespected your over hyped hero,no worries he is back in Japan fighting bums,and in no time i am sure all his fanboys will proclaim he is back.Maybe if he trains as hard as he can he can give Big foot Silva a fight :alucard:

Virgil Caine
01-01-2012, 01:45 PM
That's exactly what I said. This aint the first time he has trained in Holland, so it doesn't mean he's all of a sudden a much better striker now since his 3 losses. and I know he trained with Tyrone Spong, Remy Bonjasky and others for the Cro Cop fight as well.

You're getting very desperate and pathetic now. Putting words into my mouth and telling blatant lies now is that your new tactic? No yank is gonna tell a Dutch guy about Fedor's training in Holland. I've been on the dutch Mixfight forum for years and every time Fedor came over for his training there were long threads and hype about it. Huge threads of people participating for meet and greets in cities here in Holland. You don't know what you're talking about.

You said "he didn't just learn to kick like a Dutchman in 3 months," did you not?

Re-reading your post, I see you said he's trained there a few times before. I don't want to make this a game about English, so I'll just drop it there and say it was a mis-understanding.

Fedor isn't a kickboxer, in case you didn't notice. He does have serious kickboxing skills. No one would say he is on the level of top Dutch kickboxers. But he is still dangerous with his hands and his feet. That is basically the point.

No yank is gonna tell a Dutch guy about Fedor training in Holland? You sound kind of stupid when you say **** like that. So you read Mixfight. Good for you. You live there, okay. Nothing against Dutch men, my cousins are Dutch, and as I said I was there last Spring and I like the country and most the people I have met there. This isn't about nationalism, so stick to the topic.

As I said, you made it sound (to me at least) like you thought Fedor had just trained in Holland for the first time.

BKM-2010
01-01-2012, 01:59 PM
You said "he didn't just learn to kick like a Dutchman in 3 months," did you not?

Re-reading your post, I see you said he's trained there a few times before. I don't want to make this a game about English, so I'll just drop it there and say it was a mis-understanding.

Fedor isn't a kickboxer, in case you didn't notice. He does have serious kickboxing skills. No one would say he is on the level of top Dutch kickboxers. But he is still dangerous with his hands and his feet. That is basically the point.

No yank is gonna tell a Dutch guy about Fedor training in Holland? You sound kind of stupid when you say **** like that. So you read Mixfight. Good for you. You live there, okay. Nothing against Dutch men, my cousins are Dutch, and as I said I was there last Spring and I like the country and most the people I have met there. This isn't about nationalism, so stick to the topic.

As I said, you made it sound (to me at least) like you thought Fedor had just trained in Holland for the first time.

Yes I said he didn't just learn to kickbox in a few months because monarona or whatever is acting like Fedor is now a "new fedor" who has all these kickboxing skills all of a sudden. So I said no Fedor has trained here before.

So hell yeah it was a misunderstanding on your part. I sure as hell know Fedor has trained in Holland many times over the years and the stuff about the Dutch forums was just to back up my point. It's funny to see you jump on me like "Yes you're exposed!" while you misunderstood me:nono: hahaha

Virgil Caine
01-01-2012, 02:09 PM
You act like a little child, so go **** yourself. How old are you? 15?

BKM-2010
01-01-2012, 02:17 PM
You act like a little child, so go **** yourself. How old are you? 15?

This coming from a guy making posts like this:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n33/emmahatesbananas/You.jpg


Some mature person you are.

.Mik.
01-01-2012, 02:17 PM
Nodogoshi, I have long been a big fan of yours on these forums and have for years found myself agreeing with you as someone who has followed the sport from its pride and early UFC days rather than the modern 'Lesnar' generation. But you are chasing after the wrong guy here. While boxkickboxmma is clearly knowledgeable and being quite reasonable, the thread starter is a buffoon to the point of almost seeming to be trolling under the gimmick of a Sherdog fanboy.

Only Dana White's most ardent fans can truly deny fedor's phenomenal dominance of the sport during its initial phase, nor can it be underestimated just how impressive his unbeaten streak, the simple fact is that the sport has evolved beyond him. He had an opportunity to advance with the sport. I don't mean just moving to the UFC, but changing his training, improving his camp, adding to his skillset, challenging himself with the best fighters and he did none of these things. There were a few years where fedor simply stood still and the game moved on beyond him. fedor dominated because he was the most well rounded fighter in a period where there weren't many well rounded fighters. This is not a slight to fedor, he was a pioneer, but he finds himself left behind because he didn't do everything he should've to keep up, but then nobody of his time has really in the heavyweight division because unlike every other division hw offers a different dynamic...the fact that it is dominated by guys significantly bigger than they were in fedor's heyday. Cain and jds seem small compared to Lesnar, Overeem, carwin etc. but they dwarf fedor.

Alistair Overeem is my favourite heavyweight fighter at the moment and but for facing the top heavyweights he changed his game, changed his training methods, changed his sparring partners, evolved his game...hell, he even changed his physique.

Fedor fought inferior opposition and dominated them well, but he allowed his game to become sloppy instead of improving it. It's hard to tell whether he started fighting so wild because he became enamoured with his knockout power instead of maintaining a smart tactical game, or whether the step up in the quality and well-roundedness of his opposition took him out of his comfort zone. He fought a stupid fight against werdum and got caught, was outmatched due to physicality against silva and was beaten in a punch out against henderson who is genuine proven quality...but in that match fedor's downfall was a very simple grappling reversal that left fedor looking a bit stupid from a dominant position in honesty.

Now fedor is dominating opposition again, his style IS more conservative and more intelligent, more cagey and much more suited to top level mma. Bt it's impossible to say whether he would be allowed to maintain this style against top 10 or even top 20 fighters, neither of which his most recent to opponents were.

I've been a fedor fan as long as I've watched mma. I'd still fancy him to take Lesnar if he rushed him with an accurate flurry, but fedor is not a top level guy anymore and it's hard to believe that he would be. He could easily win a couple of big fighters with aggression and power, but he couldn't cope with most of the top heavyweights anymore, even some of the mid level guys with great wrestling backgrounds would give him trouble, even if he dropped down Jon jones would absolutely destroy him and possibly another few light heavies would give him trouble too.

None of this is looking down at fedor. I love him as a fighter and always will. But the game moved on and he didn't. His legacy is from pride and from being the only dominant heavyweight of all time and the only dominant mma fighter of his generation.

monaroCountry
01-01-2012, 05:06 PM
Nodogoshi, I have long been a big fan of yours on these forums and have for years found myself agreeing with you as someone who has followed the sport from its pride and early UFC days rather than the modern 'Lesnar' generation. But you are chasing after the wrong guy here. While boxkickboxmma is clearly knowledgeable and being quite reasonable, the thread starter is a buffoon to the point of almost seeming to be trolling under the gimmick of a Sherdog fanboy.

boxkickboxmma reasonable and knowledgeable had me LMAO :crazy:

One thing im not is a Sherdog fanboy lol.

He had an opportunity to advance with the sport. I don't mean just moving to the UFC, but changing his training, improving his camp, adding to his skillset, challenging himself with the best fighters and he did none of these things. There were a few years where fedor simply stood still and the game moved on beyond him. fedor dominated because he was the most well rounded fighter in a period where there weren't many well rounded fighters. This is not a slight to fedor, he was a pioneer, but he finds himself left behind because he didn't do everything he should've to keep up, but then nobody of his time has really in the heavyweight division because unlike every other division hw offers a different dynamic...the fact that it is dominated by guys significantly bigger than they were in fedor's heyday. Cain and jds seem small compared to Lesnar, Overeem, carwin etc. but they dwarf fedor.

Fedor has moved and improved his training and training with the best strikers and grapplers. Fedor previously trained with the absolute best boxers and now trains with the absolute best kickboxers and grapplers. Fedor contrary to Dana Whites lies train in the past and continues to train with the best. The problem was that he got wreckless and changed how he fought for some unknown reason. He basically went to a thinking and composed fighter to the wild fighter of the Strikeforce era and now has clearly gone back to the composed and intelligent fighter that he once was.

Maybe it was the glam and glits that got to his head, where all he looked for was a highlight KO.

Lets see about skills. Brock Lesnar has both castly inferior ground and striking game, Cain has unexplored ground game, Carwin is a known gasser, JDS also has unexplored ground game. And at the moment a Fedor rematch against Werdum would be Fedor all the way (since the fight is going to be like the Overeem-Werdum where Fedor avoids the ground).

Currently, the three truely well rounded HW fighters in MMA are Overeem, Fedor, and Josh Barnett.

As for fighter size. Have you noticed that the belt always reverts back to the smaller to the medium sized fighter and doesnt stay too long with the hulking fighter? This cycle is not new in sport.


Fedor fought inferior opposition and dominated them well, but he allowed his game to become sloppy instead of improving it. It's hard to tell whether he started fighting so wild because he became enamoured with his knockout power instead of maintaining a smart tactical game, or whether the step up in the quality and well-roundedness of his opposition took him out of his comfort zone. He fought a stupid fight against werdum and got caught, was outmatched due to physicality against silva and was beaten in a punch out against henderson who is genuine proven quality...but in that match fedor's downfall was a very simple grappling reversal that left fedor looking a bit stupid from a dominant position in honesty.
No other fighter has more top ten wins in their career and only two other fighter can even approach the all round game of Fedor, Overeem and Josh.

Fedor simply because sloppy which can happen when your at the top for so long. Fedor fought on the ground against the best HW BJJ fighter in the world whereas Overeem avoided the ground like the plaugue (STUPID on Fedors part). Fedor was good to go to the third round agains Bigfoot twhereas Bigfoot was breathing hard, however Fedor lost due to doctor stopage due to a cut that in reality wasnt a big injury and have been allowed to continue in many other UFC fights (UNLUCKY cut). Finally Fedor had a flash KO against Dan that was stopped too early, Fedor was actually winning that exchange up until that point (LUCKY Dan KO).

Now fedor is dominating opposition again, his style IS more conservative and more intelligent, more cagey and much more suited to top level mma. Bt it's impossible to say whether he would be allowed to maintain this style against top 10 or even top 20 fighters, neither of which his most recent to opponents were.

Monson is a beast who stopped Nelson when even JDS couldnt. Fedor took Monson apart in a more commanding fashion than Cormier.

I've been a fedor fan as long as I've watched mma. I'd still fancy him to take Lesnar if he rushed him with an accurate flurry, but fedor is not a top level guy anymore and it's hard to believe that he would be. He could easily win a couple of big fighters with aggression and power, but he couldn't cope with most of the top heavyweights anymore, even some of the mid level guys with great wrestling backgrounds would give him trouble, even if he dropped down Jon jones would absolutely destroy him and possibly another few light heavies would give him trouble too.

Lesnar would easily loose against Fedor where ever it went. Lesnar is a lumbering can that has very low level striking, low level ground, and one of the worst punch resistance ive ever seen in combat sports.

What will a wrestler do to Fedor again? fedor has fought many decorated wrestlers who was far more accomplished than any collegiate level Brock or Cain types.

None of this is looking down at fedor. I love him as a fighter and always will. But the game moved on and he didn't. His legacy is from pride and from being the only dominant heavyweight of all time and the only dominant mma fighter of his generation.

So when you say that the game have move on please tell me which part has left him behind? Fedor still has one of the better hands, stilll has one of the better kicks, still has one of the better submission, still has one of the better wrestling, and even though he looks far Fedor still has one of the better cardio in HW MMA.

.Mik.
01-01-2012, 05:58 PM
boxkickboxmma reasonable and knowledgeable had me LMAO :crazy:

One thing im not is a Sherdog fanboy lol.



Fedor has moved and improved his training and training with the best strikers and grapplers. Fedor previously trained with the absolute best boxers and now trains with the absolute best kickboxers and grapplers. Fedor contrary to Dana Whites lies train in the past and continues to train with the best. The problem was that he got wreckless and changed how he fought for some unknown reason. He basically went to a thinking and composed fighter to the wild fighter of the Strikeforce era and now has clearly gone back to the composed and intelligent fighter that he once was.

Maybe it was the glam and glits that got to his head, where all he looked for was a highlight KO.

Lets see about skills. Brock Lesnar has both castly inferior ground and striking game, Cain has unexplored ground game, Carwin is a known gasser, JDS also has unexplored ground game. And at the moment a Fedor rematch against Werdum would be Fedor all the way (since the fight is going to be like the Overeem-Werdum where Fedor avoids the ground).

Currently, the three truely well rounded HW fighters in MMA are Overeem, Fedor, and Josh Barnett.

As for fighter size. Have you noticed that the belt always reverts back to the smaller to the medium sized fighter and doesnt stay too long with the hulking fighter? This cycle is not new in sport.


No other fighter has more top ten wins in their career and only two other fighter can even approach the all round game of Fedor, Overeem and Josh.

Fedor simply because sloppy which can happen when your at the top for so long. Fedor fought on the ground against the best HW BJJ fighter in the world whereas Overeem avoided the ground like the plaugue (STUPID on Fedors part). Fedor was good to go to the third round agains Bigfoot twhereas Bigfoot was breathing hard, however Fedor lost due to doctor stopage due to a cut that in reality wasnt a big injury and have been allowed to continue in many other UFC fights (UNLUCKY cut). Finally Fedor had a flash KO against Dan that was stopped too early, Fedor was actually winning that exchange up until that point (LUCKY Dan KO).



Monson is a beast who stopped Nelson when even JDS couldnt. Fedor took Monson apart in a more commanding fashion than Cormier.



Lesnar would easily loose against Fedor where ever it went. Lesnar is a lumbering can that has very low level striking, low level ground, and one of the worst punch resistance ive ever seen in combat sports.

What will a wrestler do to Fedor again? fedor has fought many decorated wrestlers who was far more accomplished than any collegiate level Brock or Cain types.



So when you say that the game have move on please tell me which part has left him behind? Fedor still has one of the better hands, stilll has one of the better kicks, still has one of the better submission, still has one of the better wrestling, and even though he looks far Fedor still has one of the better cardio in HW MMA.

My friend, I am sorry but you are incredibly biased. If fedor was still at the top of his game an supremely confident in his abilities he would be making fights with the top guys in the game. Monson is NOT a high level opponent, this is one area when your bias becomes incredibly clear. Who are these top level wrestlers that fedor has fight in recent years since the game has evolved? please don't say Middleweight Matt Lindland.

At the moment the better rounded fighters than fedor and the ones that would most likely best him in the heavyweight division are:

Cain
Junior dos santos
Alistair Overeem
Josh Barnett
Daniel Cormier
Big Foot Silva

Carwin, Werdum and Mir would all cause him some problems too but those could go either way. Now this is not to say that Fedor can't best all of these, but I wouldn't favour him in any of them.

At light heavyweight you've also got to admit that at the very least Dan Henderson would probably and Jon Jones would almost certainly best him too. But again he has a punchers chance in any fight.

Again, it is not really fedor's fault. He was a pioneer but he did not keep up with the game as it evolved, he did not fight the top competition. Yes in Pride he fought and beat everyone (this is an accomplishment that can not possibly be underestimated due to nobody having dominated the heavyweight division since then)but which top guys from Pride are still top guys in their divisions now. The big thing that has left fedor behind is size and wrestling and as much as you think he has a great wrestling game...he does not. Silva took him down easily and kept him down easily and silva's wrestling is unexceptional.

Now the unarguable was of fedor proving you write and the critics wrong (of which I am not one, I will forever love fedor for igniting my passion for mma almost single handedly, but I AM a realist) and that is to fight high level guys. So far he's run back off to Russia and Japan to fight two guys barely in the top 30, if that. Now I'll give him a pass for getting his mojo back with a couple of gimmes, but now he needs to step up to better quality of competition. So far I can only see kharitonov available for him.

monaroCountry
01-01-2012, 06:07 PM
Yes I said he didn't just learn to kickbox in a few months because monarona or whatever is acting like Fedor is now a "new fedor" who has all these kickboxing skills all of a sudden. So I said no Fedor has trained here before.

So hell yeah it was a misunderstanding on your part. I sure as hell know Fedor has trained in Holland many times over the years and the stuff about the Dutch forums was just to back up my point. It's funny to see you jump on me like "Yes you're exposed!" while you misunderstood me:nono: hahaha
You say that your a Fedor fan yet you cant seem to see the changes in the way he fights or how his past fights have evolved, devolved and evolved again.

Fedor isnt just learn how to kick and punch, hes always been great at that, but Hoost and his crew did refine and tweak Fedor's technique a little bit here and there, this much is undeniable and have been pointed out by Fedor and Hoost's camp.

Fedor's loss wasnt technique though, it was how he approached the fight and how he planned it. This is why he is the NEW FEDOR or better yet reverted back to how he used to fight, intelligently (and not wildly). A great example is how Fedor utilises his kicks far more and actually follows a game plan. If he used the same game plan that he used against Ishii and Monson to Werdum and Bigfoot then he would have won that encounter. Look through my posts way back and see that I was already scratching my head why Fedor never utilised his great kicking game against Werdum and Bigfoot since kicks is a great way to keep distance, slow down an opponent, and is a huge weakness for big guys.

Dorian
01-01-2012, 06:18 PM
http://www.gadgets.co.uk/mas_assets/full/CANCRUSHER.gif

monaroCountry
01-01-2012, 06:32 PM
My friend, I am sorry but you are incredibly biased. If fedor was still at the top of his game an supremely confident in his abilities he would be making fights with the top guys in the game. Monson is NOT a high level opponent, this is one area when your bias becomes incredibly clear. Who are these top level wrestlers that fedor has fight in recent years since the game has evolved? please don't say Middleweight Matt Lindland.

Biased you say? or one that doesnt just believe on the UFC hype. I actually see holes in many of these UFC new breeds.

Matt Lindland, Mark Coleman, Daniel Cormier, and King Mo are pretty much the only few truely top level wrestlers in MMA and Fedor has beaten two of these already.

Please DO NOT CLASSIFY Brock Lesnar and Cain Velasquez as top level wrestlers. This is something that they are clearly not, and something that was borne from Zuffa hype. NCAA IS NOT TOP LEVEL WRESTLING.

At the moment the better rounded fighters than fedor and the ones that would most likely best him in the heavyweight division are:

Cain
Junior dos santos
Alistair Overeem
Josh Barnett
Daniel Cormier
Big Foot Silva
-Cain has a suspect chin and limited submission game as well as an inferior striking.
-JDS is an ok boxer but limited kickboxer and limited grappler, he also doesnt have the experience.
-Overeem would be a handful and is very well rounded. His main weakness is his cardio but his main strength is his strength. This should be a great fight.
-Josh Barnett is another well rounded fighter who can stand and bang but is predominantly a grappler. This too should be a great fight.
-Cormier is one fighter that is developing into a all rounder. Great ground obviously and his striking is going along nicely. Its funny that Fedor was able to dismantle Monson far better than Cormier. This should be a great fight.
-Bigfoot. Make no mistakes that the new Fedor would beat bigfoot. The guy is well rounded but not to the same level as Fedor, Overeem and Josh. Bigfoot was visibly gassed so he needs to improve on that.

The ones that I highlighted are the ones with the best chance of beating Fedor.

Carwin, Werdum and Mir would all cause him some problems too but those could go either way. Now this is not to say that Fedor can't best all of these, but I wouldn't favour him in any of them.

Carwin would be easy. Werdum and Mir would be difficult if it went to ground but this would be the same against any HW that goes to ground against Werdum especially. This is why Overeem avoided going to ground with Werdum. The new Fedor who avoids his opponents strengths would win against these three.

At light heavyweight you've also got to admit that at the very least Dan Henderson would probably and Jon Jones would almost certainly best him too. But again he has a punchers chance in any fight.

Punchers chance, exactly the same if Dan and Jon went up against the other HW's.

Again, it is not really fedor's fault. He was a pioneer but he did not keep up with the game as it evolved, he did not fight the top competition. Yes in Pride he fought and beat everyone (this is an accomplishment that can not possibly be underestimated due to nobody having dominated the heavyweight division since then)but which top guys from Pride are still top guys in their divisions now. The big thing that has left fedor behind is size and wrestling and as much as you think he has a great wrestling game...he does not. Silva took him down easily and kept him down easily and silva's wrestling is unexceptional.
I see most other current HW have bigger holes in their game. Fedor has also been fighting against top 10 fighters, all against top fighters apart from Jeff and Ishii.

Fedor does have a great werstling game, wrestling is a component in Sambo FYI. So apart from Werdum (who could school everyone in HW on the ground) which other fighter has outgrappled Fedor. FYI Bigfoot simply sat on Fedor and was lucky enough that Fedor cuts easily, Fedor was actually going for submissions of his own at the end of that round.

but I AM a realist) and that is to fight high level guys. So far he's run back off to Russia and Japan to fight two guys barely in the top 30, if that. Now I'll give him a pass for getting his mojo back with a couple of gimmes, but now he needs to step up to better quality of competition. So far I can only see kharitonov available for him.

From what I saw though is that both Ishii and Monson were better fighters and shown better skills and experince than Carwin and Brock especially. For example Monson took the shots and tried his own strikes and takedowns, Monson didnt run away from strikes. Brock on the other hand did exactly the same except for running away and turtling up. If the ranking was TRUELY IMPARTIAL THEN MONSON WOULD BE RANKED HIGHER THAN BROCK AND FEDOR WOULD BE RANKED FAR HIGHER THAN CAIN. But as we know these ranking systems are done by Zombies.

monaroCountry
01-01-2012, 06:33 PM
http://www.gadgets.co.uk/mas_assets/full/CANCRUSHER.gif

Nah we arent talking about Overeem here versus a guy who literally runs away from :boxing::boxing::boxing:

Dorian
01-01-2012, 06:39 PM
Prime Fedor would have beat everyone in the UFC right now. Just a shame it never happened and we didn't see his TRUE potential.

He's a legend tho. His fights against Nog and CC were awesome. It's sad to see him fight now(despite winning last night). He should retire.

MARKBNLV
01-01-2012, 08:29 PM
Nodogoshi, I have long been a big fan of yours on these forums and have for years found myself agreeing with you as someone who has followed the sport from its pride and early UFC days rather than the modern 'Lesnar' generation. But you are chasing after the wrong guy here. While boxkickboxmma is clearly knowledgeable and being quite reasonable, the thread starter is a buffoon to the point of almost seeming to be trolling under the gimmick of a Sherdog fanboy.

Only Dana White's most ardent fans can truly deny fedor's phenomenal dominance of the sport during its initial phase, nor can it be underestimated just how impressive his unbeaten streak, the simple fact is that the sport has evolved beyond him. He had an opportunity to advance with the sport. I don't mean just moving to the UFC, but changing his training, improving his camp, adding to his skillset, challenging himself with the best fighters and he did none of these things. There were a few years where fedor simply stood still and the game moved on beyond him. fedor dominated because he was the most well rounded fighter in a period where there weren't many well rounded fighters. This is not a slight to fedor, he was a pioneer, but he finds himself left behind because he didn't do everything he should've to keep up, but then nobody of his time has really in the heavyweight division because unlike every other division hw offers a different dynamic...the fact that it is dominated by guys significantly bigger than they were in fedor's heyday. Cain and jds seem small compared to Lesnar, Overeem, carwin etc. but they dwarf fedor.

Alistair Overeem is my favourite heavyweight fighter at the moment and but for facing the top heavyweights he changed his game, changed his training methods, changed his sparring partners, evolved his game...hell, he even changed his physique.

Fedor fought inferior opposition and dominated them well, but he allowed his game to become sloppy instead of improving it. It's hard to tell whether he started fighting so wild because he became enamoured with his knockout power instead of maintaining a smart tactical game, or whether the step up in the quality and well-roundedness of his opposition took him out of his comfort zone. He fought a stupid fight against werdum and got caught, was outmatched due to physicality against silva and was beaten in a punch out against henderson who is genuine proven quality...but in that match fedor's downfall was a very simple grappling reversal that left fedor looking a bit stupid from a dominant position in honesty.

Now fedor is dominating opposition again, his style IS more conservative and more intelligent, more cagey and much more suited to top level mma. Bt it's impossible to say whether he would be allowed to maintain this style against top 10 or even top 20 fighters, neither of which his most recent to opponents were.

I've been a fedor fan as long as I've watched mma. I'd still fancy him to take Lesnar if he rushed him with an accurate flurry, but fedor is not a top level guy anymore and it's hard to believe that he would be. He could easily win a couple of big fighters with aggression and power, but he couldn't cope with most of the top heavyweights anymore, even some of the mid level guys with great wrestling backgrounds would give him trouble, even if he dropped down Jon jones would absolutely destroy him and possibly another few light heavies would give him trouble too.

None of this is looking down at fedor. I love him as a fighter and always will. But the game moved on and he didn't. His legacy is from pride and from being the only dominant heavyweight of all time and the only dominant mma fighter of his generation.

YEA AND TITO DOMINATED LHW DURING THE SPORTS INFANCY NO ONE CALLS HIM THE GOAT,OR HOW ABOUT MARK KERR,OR iGOR I CAN GO ON AND ON THE FACT IS A 33 YEAROLD FEDOR GOT WHOOPED BY GIANT SILVA DEFEND THAT.

MARKBNLV
01-01-2012, 08:33 PM
Prime Fedor would have beat everyone in the UFC right now. Just a shame it never happened and we didn't see his TRUE potential.

He's a legend tho. His fights against Nog and CC were awesome. It's sad to see him fight now(despite winning last night). He should retire.

You must be high he couldnt even beat Frank Mir.the guy is 33 barely fights and because he is exposed people call him past prime,was he past prime when he ducked Couture,or how about when he beat Rogers,no one claimed he was past it.

Danny Gunz
01-01-2012, 10:29 PM
This coming from a guy making posts like this:




Some mature person you are.

Bravo sir, you owned the **** out of him this thread :hail:

monaroCountry
01-02-2012, 06:23 AM
YEA AND TITO DOMINATED LHW DURING THE SPORTS INFANCY NO ONE CALLS HIM THE GOAT,OR HOW ABOUT MARK KERR,OR iGOR I CAN GO ON AND ON THE FACT IS A 33 YEAROLD FEDOR GOT WHOOPED BY GIANT SILVA DEFEND THAT.

Igor was actually regarded as the GOAT at one stage, this is why Fedor when he was starting out was regarded as Igor v 2.0. Fedor's fights and how he fought and won made him the GOAT that he is today.

Being beaten by Bigfoot through a cut resulting in a doctor stoppage is better than being beaten by Joaquim Ferreirra in one round via getting your arm ripped off.

monaroCountry
01-02-2012, 06:25 AM
Prime Fedor would have beat everyone in the UFC right now. Just a shame it never happened and we didn't see his TRUE potential.

He's a legend tho. His fights against Nog and CC were awesome. It's sad to see him fight now(despite winning last night). He should retire.

Fedor's been coming out with exciting and skillful fights in his last two.

Brock on the other hand was a good choice to retire. He was just embarrassing himself out there. Imagine a fighter who doesnt like or can even take a punch lol, simply pathetic.

.Mik.
01-02-2012, 07:53 AM
Biased you say? or one that doesnt just believe on the UFC hype. I actually see holes in many of these UFC new breeds.

Matt Lindland, Mark Coleman, Daniel Cormier, and King Mo are pretty much the only few truely top level wrestlers in MMA and Fedor has beaten two of these already.

Please DO NOT CLASSIFY Brock Lesnar and Cain Velasquez as top level wrestlers. This is something that they are clearly not, and something that was borne from Zuffa hype. NCAA IS NOT TOP LEVEL WRESTLING.


-Cain has a suspect chin and limited submission game as well as an inferior striking.
-JDS is an ok boxer but limited kickboxer and limited grappler, he also doesnt have the experience.
-Overeem would be a handful and is very well rounded. His main weakness is his cardio but his main strength is his strength. This should be a great fight.
-Josh Barnett is another well rounded fighter who can stand and bang but is predominantly a grappler. This too should be a great fight.
-Cormier is one fighter that is developing into a all rounder. Great ground obviously and his striking is going along nicely. Its funny that Fedor was able to dismantle Monson far better than Cormier. This should be a great fight.
-Bigfoot. Make no mistakes that the new Fedor would beat bigfoot. The guy is well rounded but not to the same level as Fedor, Overeem and Josh. Bigfoot was visibly gassed so he needs to improve on that.

The ones that I highlighted are the ones with the best chance of beating Fedor.



Carwin would be easy. Werdum and Mir would be difficult if it went to ground but this would be the same against any HW that goes to ground against Werdum especially. This is why Overeem avoided going to ground with Werdum. The new Fedor who avoids his opponents strengths would win against these three.



Punchers chance, exactly the same if Dan and Jon went up against the other HW's.


I see most other current HW have bigger holes in their game. Fedor has also been fighting against top 10 fighters, all against top fighters apart from Jeff and Ishii.

Fedor does have a great werstling game, wrestling is a component in Sambo FYI. So apart from Werdum (who could school everyone in HW on the ground) which other fighter has outgrappled Fedor. FYI Bigfoot simply sat on Fedor and was lucky enough that Fedor cuts easily, Fedor was actually going for submissions of his own at the end of that round.



From what I saw though is that both Ishii and Monson were better fighters and shown better skills and experince than Carwin and Brock especially. For example Monson took the shots and tried his own strikes and takedowns, Monson didnt run away from strikes. Brock on the other hand did exactly the same except for running away and turtling up. If the ranking was TRUELY IMPARTIAL THEN MONSON WOULD BE RANKED HIGHER THAN BROCK AND FEDOR WOULD BE RANKED FAR HIGHER THAN CAIN. But as we know these ranking systems are done by Zombies.

Look mate, I understand where you're coming from, I really do. But almost every single thing that you say is pure speculation and assumption. The way for Fedor to back up your assumptions is for him to fight some of these guys who are ranked higher than him and at the moment he isnt. Until he does your posts will only ever look like fanboy ravings.

Matt Lindland and Mark Coleman were old generation fighters, great wrestlers yes, but not well rounded MMA fighters compared to this generation. Neither of them would have much success in the current MMA landscape. Cain and Brock ARE high level MMA wrestlers. In Cain's case, its with a well-rounded MMA game on top of that too. Cain has a suspect chin on the basis of one flash knockdown which actually landed behind his ear? In that case Fedor has a suspect chin on the basis of the Henderson knockout (and whether you like it or not, Fedor went limp...it was a knockout. I thought it was an early stoppage too at the time.)

Make no mistakes, the only Fedor that fought Bigfoot got beat off Bigfoot. This new Fedor can ONLY disprove this by fighting Bigfoot, not by fantasy matchmaking in your head. The factual evidence is that when the two fought, Bigfoot won. Anything else is PURE speculation. Bigfoot took Fedor down and controlled him on the ground. Fedor went for a heelhook which Bigfoot LITERALLY laughed off.

You can SAY that Fedor would control anyone else on the ground, but the truth is that he has not controlled those current top guys on the ground. Until he does, again, pure speculation by you.

Ishii and Monson are not better fighters than Lesnar or Carwin, this is just you being silly. Neither of them have any signature wins over any prime fighter bigger than Lesnar's wins over Carwin, Couture or Mir, nor Carwin's win over Mir.

Fedor DID fight the top guys of the time in Pride. His resume was littered with top notch guys there. Nobody can deny that. Since Pride went down, he's 7-3 and nobody can argue that those are all top guys he's fought. Even the guys he lost to are arguably not even in the top 5 at Heavyweight.

hayZ
01-02-2012, 09:04 AM
You must be high he couldnt even beat Frank Mir.the guy is 33 barely fights and because he is exposed people call him past prime,was he past prime when he ducked Couture,or how about when he beat Rogers,no one claimed he was past it.

He is 35. Best Combat Sambo fighter in the world, world-respected Judo fighter and Pride/Affliction heavyweight champion. He fought solid competition, CC/Nog/Sylvia/Arlovski/Schlitt/Arona/Randleman/Hunt/Lindleman/Coleman/Herring. All of those guys are solid fighters. Name me some fighters in the heavyweight ranks with better competition than that. For the record if he fought Brock in 2009 he would have beaten him, Fedor has a SOLID chin and he isn't intimidated if he hit Brock with one of his bombs, Brock like the bully he is would have folded.

I saw him slowing down, physically he looked smaller as well in terms of less muscle mass gradually after 2007. He would have fought Barnett who is a solid fighter as well but due to Barnetts steroid problems it didn't happen, Couture wouldn't last with Fedor who is 100000x better on his feet and is very respectable on the ground eventhough NOW he does not show it anymore, see some of his Pride ground work he was phenomenal.

monaroCountry
01-02-2012, 09:08 AM
Look mate, I understand where you're coming from, I really do. But almost every single thing that you say is pure speculation and assumption. The way for Fedor to back up your assumptions is for him to fight some of these guys who are ranked higher than him and at the moment he isnt. Until he does your posts will only ever look like fanboy ravings.

Out of anyone, Fedor should be ranked higher than Cain, Brock, Carwin and even JDS. Who is to say that these fighters can even compete with the more proven and more deserving fighter like Fedor.

At the moment all those who think that these Zuffa fighters deserve their high ranking is nothing more than the ravings of a zombie.


Matt Lindland and Mark Coleman were old generation fighters, great wrestlers yes, but not well rounded MMA fighters compared to this generation. Neither of them would have much success in the current MMA landscape. Cain and Brock ARE high level MMA wrestlers.

Fedor fought those fighters in their prime though and not when they were in decline like Old Nog or busted up CroCop. Please please please dont tell me that Brock is a more well rounded fighter than Lindland/Coleman, and please dont insult me by insinuating that a Div 1 and Div 2 college wrestler is even anywhere remotely close to an Olympic medalist wrestler.

In Cain's case, its with a well-rounded MMA game on top of that too. Cain has a suspect chin on the basis of one flash knockdown which actually landed behind his ear? In that case Fedor has a suspect chin on the basis of the Henderson knockout (and whether you like it or not, Fedor went limp...it was a knockout. I thought it was an early stoppage too at the time.)

Please tell me how many submission wins or even superb submission moves that Cain has done in his career. What well rounded game are you seeing?

Unlike Cain, Fedor has actually stood toe to toe and taken damage from top strikers without wilting like Cain. Cain on the other hand hasnt fought that many top level strikers and already exposed as having a weak chin.



Make no mistakes, the only Fedor that fought Bigfoot got beat off Bigfoot. This new Fedor can ONLY disprove this by fighting Bigfoot, not by fantasy matchmaking in your head. The factual evidence is that when the two fought, Bigfoot won. Anything else is PURE speculation. Bigfoot took Fedor down and controlled him on the ground. Fedor went for a heelhook which Bigfoot LITERALLY laughed off.

So what your saying is that Bigfoot is a better fighter than Fedor, well I can agree with that seeing as Bigfoot did win. However lets also apply this to other fighters and not just to Fedor. Would you then agree that Joaquim Ferreira is a better fighter and should be ranked higher than JDS, and that Sergei Kharitonov is a better fighter than Overeem and should rightly be ranked higher than him.

You can SAY that Fedor would control anyone else on the ground, but the truth is that he has not controlled those current top guys on the ground. Until he does, again, pure speculation by you.Its also pure speculation to say that Cain, JDS, Overeem can control Fedor on the ground.

Ishii and Monson are not better fighters than Lesnar r Carwin, this is just you being silly. Neither of them have any signature wins over any prime fighter bigger than Lesnar's wins over Carwin, Couture or Mir, nor Carwin's win over Mir.

You honestly think that Lesnar winning against glass chinned Mir, and the dual retiree's Randy and Herring is any significant? Randy is getting beat up by LHW nowdays and both fighters are way past it.

Monson did beat Sergei Kharitonov and Nelson, and has also got far more experinced and more proven. Not only that but Monson has shown more weapons in the ring and cage than Brock, as well as shown that he is actually a TRUE FIGHTER and not just a bully fighter who RUNS AWAY WHEN HIT BY PUNCHES.

A great example of how badly a fighter and how inexperienced they are is when they 1) cant take punches and runs away, and 2) cant last more than 1 rounds in a 5 round fight. This is what happened to Carwin and Brock, these is simply amateurish.

Fedor DID fight the top guys of the time in Pride. His resume was littered with top notch guys there. Nobody can deny that. Since Pride went down, he's 7-3 and nobody can argue that those are all top guys he's fought. Even the guys he lost to are arguably not even in the top 5 at Heavyweight.
So that means that beating Brock, Nog, Randy, Nelson, Carwin should just as quickly discounted seeing as these guys has also been exposed and has hadmany many many losses. Why are you discounting Fedor's great wins while not applying the same to your beloved Zuffa fighters?

hayZ
01-02-2012, 09:10 AM
Look mate, I understand where you're coming from, I really do. But almost every single thing that you say is pure speculation and assumption. The way for Fedor to back up your assumptions is for him to fight some of these guys who are ranked higher than him and at the moment he isnt. Until he does your posts will only ever look like fanboy ravings.

Matt Lindland and Mark Coleman were old generation fighters, great wrestlers yes, but not well rounded MMA fighters compared to this generation. Neither of them would have much success in the current MMA landscape. Cain and Brock ARE high level MMA wrestlers. In Cain's case, its with a well-rounded MMA game on top of that too. Cain has a suspect chin on the basis of one flash knockdown which actually landed behind his ear? In that case Fedor has a suspect chin on the basis of the Henderson knockout (and whether you like it or not, Fedor went limp...it was a knockout. I thought it was an early stoppage too at the time.)

Make no mistakes, the only Fedor that fought Bigfoot got beat off Bigfoot. This new Fedor can ONLY disprove this by fighting Bigfoot, not by fantasy matchmaking in your head. The factual evidence is that when the two fought, Bigfoot won. Anything else is PURE speculation. Bigfoot took Fedor down and controlled him on the ground. Fedor went for a heelhook which Bigfoot LITERALLY laughed off.

You can SAY that Fedor would control anyone else on the ground, but the truth is that he has not controlled those current top guys on the ground. Until he does, again, pure speculation by you.

Ishii and Monson are not better fighters than Lesnar or Carwin, this is just you being silly. Neither of them have any signature wins over any prime fighter bigger than Lesnar's wins over Carwin, Couture or Mir, nor Carwin's win over Mir.

Fedor DID fight the top guys of the time in Pride. His resume was littered with top notch guys there. Nobody can deny that. Since Pride went down, he's 7-3 and nobody can argue that those are all top guys he's fought. Even the guys he lost to are arguably not even in the top 5 at Heavyweight.

Fedor at 35 isn't going to dominate anymore, his standup game is the best or up there at the moment but him as a whole MMA fighter isn't. He has regressed just watch him fight now compared to before. As for the Cain example, Fedor has taken flush shots a lot and still stayed on his feet and Cain took one and lost his bearings it was early in the fight and he got him in a dangerous spot. Fedor took multiple shots from Hendo, some to the back of the head. Cain took ONE.

People said Silva was too big for Fedor but If Cormier can beat Big Foot Silva, a PRIME Pride Fedor could definately do it.

.Mik.
01-02-2012, 10:59 AM
Out of anyone, Fedor should be ranked higher than Cain, Brock, Carwin and even JDS. Who is to say that these fighters can even compete with the more proven and more deserving fighter like Fedor.

At the moment all those who think that these Zuffa fighters deserve their high ranking is nothing more than the ravings of a zombie.




Fedor fought those fighters in their prime though and not when they were in decline like Old Nog or busted up CroCop. Please please please dont tell me that Brock is a more well rounded fighter than Lindland/Coleman, and please dont insult me by insinuating that a Div 1 and Div 2 college wrestler is even anywhere remotely close to an Olympic medalist wrestler.



Please tell me how many submission wins or even superb submission moves that Cain has done in his career. What well rounded game are you seeing?

Unlike Cain, Fedor has actually stood toe to toe and taken damage from top strikers without wilting like Cain. Cain on the other hand hasnt fought that many top level strikers and already exposed as having a weak chin.





So what your saying is that Bigfoot is a better fighter than Fedor, well I can agree with that seeing as Bigfoot did win. However lets also apply this to other fighters and not just to Fedor. Would you then agree that Joaquim Ferreira is a better fighter and should be ranked higher than JDS, and that Sergei Kharitonov is a better fighter than Overeem and should rightly be ranked higher than him.

Its also pure speculation to say that Cain, JDS, Overeem can control Fedor on the ground.



You honestly think that Lesnar winning against glass chinned Mir, and the dual retiree's Randy and Herring is any significant? Randy is getting beat up by LHW nowdays and both fighters are way past it.

Monson did beat Sergei Kharitonov and Nelson, and has also got far more experinced and more proven. Not only that but Monson has shown more weapons in the ring and cage than Brock, as well as shown that he is actually a TRUE FIGHTER and not just a bully fighter who RUNS AWAY WHEN HIT BY PUNCHES.

A great example of how badly a fighter and how inexperienced they are is when they 1) cant take punches and runs away, and 2) cant last more than 1 rounds in a 5 round fight. This is what happened to Carwin and Brock, these is simply amateurish.


So that means that beating Brock, Nog, Randy, Nelson, Carwin should just as quickly discounted seeing as these guys has also been exposed and has hadmany many many losses. Why are you discounting Fedor's great wins while not applying the same to your beloved Zuffa fighters?

The problem is that literally 100% of your points stand on a couple of arguments that you cannot prove.

1). That the mma game has not improved in the days since Fedor was at the top (ie the fighters that were top 10 then would be in the top 10 today).

2). That this 'new fedor' has corrected all of the problems in his game, of proof you offer his fights against people who are not significant in the mma world today.

3). That fedor would beat the people at the top of the division today...but he isn't going to fight them.


You offer nothing substantial. Arguing with you is tiresome because anything that you say is based on hopes, guesses, assumptions and falsehoods.

You compare cigano's loss when he was a green fighter to fedor's loss when he was in his mid thirties...he is not going to get better at this age, not considerable better anyway.

You are a fanboy I'm afraid because there is no reasoning with you. You twist points around to fit a blinkered worldview that is ignorant to how combat sports work.

Fedor is the greatest heavyweight of all time. He is not the greatest heavyweight anymore. The ONLY thing that will prove otherwise is fedor fighting the best heavyweights in the world. Monson and Ishii are nowhere near that. I look forward to picking this argument up with you again the next time fedor fights someone that anyone with any actual mma knowledge considers to be a top 10 guy. Until then you can continue spewing your bias blind foolishness and telling anyone who doesn't agree with you that they are a zombie or a Dana white ball hugger, or whatever helps you sleep at night.

MARKBNLV
01-02-2012, 11:34 AM
Look mate, I understand where you're coming from, I really do. But almost every single thing that you say is pure speculation and assumption. The way for Fedor to back up your assumptions is for him to fight some of these guys who are ranked higher than him and at the moment he isnt. Until he does your posts will only ever look like fanboy ravings.

Matt Lindland and Mark Coleman were old generation fighters, great wrestlers yes, but not well rounded MMA fighters compared to this generation. Neither of them would have much success in the current MMA landscape. Cain and Brock ARE high level MMA wrestlers. In Cain's case, its with a well-rounded MMA game on top of that too. Cain has a suspect chin on the basis of one flash knockdown which actually landed behind his ear? In that case Fedor has a suspect chin on the basis of the Henderson knockout (and whether you like it or not, Fedor went limp...it was a knockout. I thought it was an early stoppage too at the time.)

Make no mistakes, the only Fedor that fought Bigfoot got beat off Bigfoot. This new Fedor can ONLY disprove this by fighting Bigfoot, not by fantasy matchmaking in your head. The factual evidence is that when the two fought, Bigfoot won. Anything else is PURE speculation. Bigfoot took Fedor down and controlled him on the ground. Fedor went for a heelhook which Bigfoot LITERALLY laughed off.

You can SAY that Fedor would control anyone else on the ground, but the truth is that he has not controlled those current top guys on the ground. Until he does, again, pure speculation by you.

Ishii and Monson are not better fighters than Lesnar or Carwin, this is just you being silly. Neither of them have any signature wins over any prime fighter bigger than Lesnar's wins over Carwin, Couture or Mir, nor Carwin's win over Mir.

Fedor DID fight the top guys of the time in Pride. His resume was littered with top notch guys there. Nobody can deny that. Since Pride went down, he's 7-3 and nobody can argue that those are all top guys he's fought. Even the guys he lost to are arguably not even in the top 5 at Heavyweight.

Just look what Cormier did to Bigfoot

Boxingtech718v2
01-02-2012, 11:38 AM
Just look what Cormier did to Bigfoot

Cromier looks good but I think he's too small for HW. He should lose the gut and drop to LHW.

MARKBNLV
01-02-2012, 11:39 AM
He is 35. Best Combat Sambo fighter in the world, world-respected Judo fighter and Pride/Affliction heavyweight champion. He fought solid competition, CC/Nog/Sylvia/Arlovski/Schlitt/Arona/Randleman/Hunt/Lindleman/Coleman/Herring. All of those guys are solid fighters. Name me some fighters in the heavyweight ranks with better competition than that. For the record if he fought Brock in 2009 he would have beaten him, Fedor has a SOLID chin and he isn't intimidated if he hit Brock with one of his bombs, Brock like the bully he is would have folded.

I saw him slowing down, physically he looked smaller as well in terms of less muscle mass gradually after 2007. He would have fought Barnett who is a solid fighter as well but due to Barnetts steroid problems it didn't happen, Couture wouldn't last with Fedor who is 100000x better on his feet and is very respectable on the ground eventhough NOW he does not show it anymore, see some of his Pride ground work he was phenomenal.

I have watched most of his fights been an mma fan since the Royce days i am no tuff newb,with that said he was good in his era but he was not able to adjust and improve they way say big Nog did the same with Crocop he never adjusted and never improved.I have not respected Fedor since he cheated against a much smaller Lindland,he was cut and about to get slammed but what does he do he grabs the ropes helping him reverse lindland into his own tda.

Mersey
01-02-2012, 11:46 AM
Isn't it strange that the KO was perfect timing for the New Year countdown

monaroCountry
01-02-2012, 06:34 PM
I have watched most of his fights been an mma fan since the Royce days i am no tuff newb,with that said he was good in his era but he was not able to adjust and improve they way say big Nog did the same with Crocop he never adjusted and never improved.I have not respected Fedor since he cheated against a much smaller Lindland,he was cut and about to get slammed but what does he do he grabs the ropes helping him reverse lindland into his own tda.

Your post makes no sense. You fail, try again.

Isn't it strange that the KO was perfect timing for the New Year countdown

Like a BOSS :)

RisAri0
01-03-2012, 02:27 AM
the ring is his domain, in there I believe no one beats him... in a cage, not so much