View Full Version : Does anyone on either Klits resume beat Ali?


LarryXXX
12-31-2011, 04:19 PM
Does anyone who they have fought beat Ali?

RichCCFC
12-31-2011, 04:23 PM
pretty worthless question

LarryXXX
12-31-2011, 04:25 PM
pretty worthless question

why????????

nomadman
12-31-2011, 04:25 PM
Does anyone who they have fought beat Ali?

Lennox Lewis.

Freedom2014
12-31-2011, 04:26 PM
Lennox Lewis.

Agreed - I've always thought Lennox would beat Ali.

CHOWWOKKA
12-31-2011, 04:29 PM
Can't think of anyone.

Toney Loc
12-31-2011, 04:30 PM
Underrated slick southpaw Sultan Ibragimov will dazzle Ali and UD him.

KingTito
12-31-2011, 04:33 PM
No. I don't see it happening.

Rip Chudd
12-31-2011, 04:37 PM
no one Ali fought beats Vitali Klitschko, but someone Vitali Klitschko fought could beat Ali: Lennox Lewis. And before you cry foul and get butthurt there's someone that has fought Ali and fought common opponents with Lewis that agrees with this statement: George Foreman - who has stated that Lewis is the greatest heavyweight of all time.
Foreman must of been drunk when he said it.

DempseyRollin
12-31-2011, 04:37 PM
nahh, i dont see it. only one with a shot is lewis and i dont think he does either.

DempseyRollin
12-31-2011, 04:39 PM
no one Ali fought beats Vitali Klitschko, but someone Vitali Klitschko fought could beat Ali: Lennox Lewis. And before you cry foul and get butthurt there's someone that has fought Ali and fought common opponents with Lewis that agrees with this statement: George Foreman - who has stated that Lewis is the greatest heavyweight of all time.

we kno why foreman said that. he doesnt like ali. he never has. next time choose an unbiased source.

RichCCFC
12-31-2011, 04:42 PM
Ali is the best Heavyweight of all time

TBear
12-31-2011, 04:48 PM
Yet another moment where the NSB overflows and spills into the history section.

Forza
12-31-2011, 04:53 PM
On paper Lewis has an advantage over Ali in every single aspect except speed.

Honestly I could see lewis TKO'ing Ali with ease. 2 different eras, 2 different athletes.

TBear
12-31-2011, 05:10 PM
Yet another moment where the NSB overflows and spills into the history section.

But for the sake of conversation,


No!

kendom
12-31-2011, 05:11 PM
On paper Lewis has an advantage over Ali in every single aspect except speed.

Honestly I could see lewis TKO'ing Ali with ease. 2 different eras, 2 different athletes.

When you make such an outlandish statement you have to back it up

Forza
12-31-2011, 05:27 PM
When you make such an outlandish statement you have to back it up

Watch a few LL fights and it should be clear as daylight

btw, your top 10 just proves how little you know about the sport.

New England
12-31-2011, 05:45 PM
lennox lewis would obviously have the best shot


he beat vitali pretty soundly, considering the condition he left vitali's face.


i think his power and his sheer size and physical strength would give ali problems

before his layoff he wasnt overly physical, and i'm sure he'd be forced to box for 15 rounds, which i think he would, to a decision


later on in his career, when his legs slowed, he had a tendency to lay on the ropes and pull his opponents head down to take a break instead of using the ring

that wouldn't work against a monster like lennox lewis
he's too strong and tall to get his head pulled down
and he's got huge punches that he can throw inside that dont have to be straight (his uppercut, his looping right hand)


i think lewis would give a stern test to post layoff ali, but again
i dont think he would win.

ali had a terrific chin, terrific recooperative powers, a style that scored points, and he'd win the jabbing contest.

lewis patient style and favored distance would still favor ali, who was a serious operator from that far away.

Rip Chudd
12-31-2011, 05:51 PM
convenient dismissal
Hard to take him seriously when he's bitter about his loss to Ali. Didn't he say he was poisoned?

kendom
12-31-2011, 05:51 PM
Watch a few LL fights and it should be clear as daylight

btw, your top 10 just proves how little you know about the sport.

Naa not really, Ali's speeds and jab win the fight, even if Lewis wins hes not "easily tkoing" him BTW theres nothing wrong with my top 10 would you care to elaborate why my "I know little about the sport"

Vadrigar.
12-31-2011, 05:53 PM
Naa not really, Ali's speeds and jab win the fight, even if Lewis wins hes not "easily tkoing" him BTW theres nothing wrong with my top 10 would you care to elaborate why my "I know little about the sport"

He's mad about Marciano. Who could have known?

kendom
12-31-2011, 05:56 PM
He's mad about Marciano. Who could have known?

LOL yeah I know so he dismisses the entire list

RubenSonny
12-31-2011, 07:37 PM
Ali would punish Lewis, especially the oldest and fattest version Vitali fought.

Rossman
01-01-2012, 04:44 AM
Let me get this right, the question is if the fighters on the Klitschko's resume, which aside from Lewis, represents the weakest era in heavyweight history, can any of them beat one of the greatest heavyweights ever? The question probably is not worthy an answer.

The Surgeon
01-01-2012, 07:03 AM
Id give Lewis a shot but id still favour Ali and CERTAINLY over the version of Lewis Klitchko fought.....

Other than Lennox i dont give any of them a chance

Superflo777
01-01-2012, 07:42 AM
Underrated slick southpaw Sultan Ibragimov will dazzle Ali and UD him.

I agree with Ibragimov having a chance - he was decent, underrated fighter who retired after facing the best heavyweight of the era.

Superflo777
01-01-2012, 07:49 AM
Murder me if you want but I also see David Haye having a little chance on beating Ali.

Barnburner
01-01-2012, 08:01 AM
Murder me if you want but I also see David Haye having a little chance on beating Ali.
That one hurt me inside, it really did.

Vadrigar.
01-01-2012, 08:07 AM
Does anyone who they have fought beat Ali?

Not at all. Ali would have exploited Lennox lewis in a bad way.

SBleeder
01-01-2012, 08:09 AM
Murder me if you want but I also see David Haye having a little chance on beating Ali.

Perhaps if we're talking about the current version of Ali, who is almost 70 and is debilitated by Parkinsons...

Actually, no. As a matter of fact, If Ali still uses a spit bucket today, David Haye couldn't carry it.

The Surgeon
01-01-2012, 08:47 AM
Murder me if you want but I also see David Haye having a little chance on beating Ali.

:bigeyes: You Did NOT just say that!? :bigeyes:


And Iggy too!?!

Superflo777
01-01-2012, 09:01 AM
I said a little chance, if he prepared accordingly. Ali is no god, he can be beaten.

IronDanHamza
01-01-2012, 10:45 AM
There is absolutely no way that that version of Lennox Lewis beats Muhammad Ali.

And the answer to the question is no.

GJC
01-01-2012, 10:49 AM
Lewis at his best would be competitive for a while. Not that Vitali fought that Lewis, he got beat by an overweight uninterested Lewis. Few fighters on Ali's resume that I'd back to run through the Klit's resume. Apart from the obvious ones I'd go down to the likes of Bugner and judging the way a lot of Wlad's opponents fight him even Shavers with his obvious weaknesses would have gotten himself a belt these days.

them_apples
01-01-2012, 02:20 PM
Lewis doesn't beat Ali. I know the people saying this are just noob posters like I was a few years back.

I'd give Lewis a chance, esp vs the comeback version, but Ali def beats him in my book 8/10.

What does Lewis have? He got a draw/ and ud against an aging Holyfield, had an ugly fight with Vitali at the end of his career (although it looked like he would have beat him more legit had he been younger).

Then there is his overated jab. I want to say underated punching power. Only thing is Lewis didn't look for a KO, he boxed. He could hit though 100%.

people who weren't born in the 70's think there is a massive advancement as the years have gone by, but really it's a much slower process than people think.

slap some brand new grants on Ali, some bigger trunks, he'd look ace. Esp with some better strength conditioning.

young_robbed
01-01-2012, 02:55 PM
Nope. To be fair maybe Corrie Sanders might trouble a green, young Cassius Clay. Lennox Lewis definitely wouldn't beat Ali, not that version. Lewis didn't have the jab or swarmer style to defeat Ali like Frazier might.

young_robbed
01-01-2012, 03:07 PM
Murder me if you want but I also see David Haye having a little chance on beating Ali.

Based on what? Haye hasn't beat ANYONE like Ali. He has no chance whatsoever.

SBleeder
01-01-2012, 08:24 PM
I said a little chance, if he prepared accordingly. Ali is no god, he can be beaten.

Anybody can be beaten, but a prime Ali is about as close to unbeatable as it gets.

And if anybody can beat him, it's not going to be some scrub who showed up for the biggest fight of his career with the sole intention of collecting a paycheck.

bojangles1987
01-01-2012, 08:43 PM
I said a little chance, if he prepared accordingly. Ali is no god, he can be beaten.

Not by David Haye he couldn't. Not even close. That's one fight that you can assuredly say one fighter stands no chance against the other.

Joeyzagz
01-01-2012, 09:18 PM
Lennox beats any heavyweight that ever lived including Ali and the Klitschko sisters.



http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6766/bowe.gif
http://www.virginmedia.com/images/lennox.jpg
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/1008/box_lewis_klitschko_600.jpg
http://bloodysports.com/holyfield.jpg

LarryXXX
01-01-2012, 11:27 PM
Murder me if you want but I also see David Haye having a little chance on beating Ali.

lmfao...................

young_robbed
01-02-2012, 12:19 AM
Lennox beats any heavyweight that ever lived including Ali and the Klitschko sisters.]

Totally wrong. Right off the top of my head I can think of Holmes, Liston, Tyson, Holyfield, Louis, Marciano, Johnson, and Bowe.

If Lennox would beat every heavyweight ever lived he sure as hell doesn't have the resume to prove it. He nearly lost to Ray Mercer and got stopped by McCall and Rahman. Nuff' said.

Joeyzagz
01-02-2012, 09:42 PM
Totally wrong. Right off the top of my head I can think of Holmes, Liston, Tyson, Holyfield, Louis, Marciano, Johnson, and Bowe.

If Lennox would beat every heavyweight ever lived he sure as hell doesn't have the resume to prove it. He nearly lost to Ray Mercer and got stopped by McCall and Rahman. Nuff' said.

Why not include my pics in your quote? Does it destroy your resume argument that badly?

Marciano never beat a big fighter EVER, and Louis, Johnson Liston all have unavenged losses. Lennox defeated everyone he faced.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/15/olivermccry.gif

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4687/rahman.gif

The_Demon
01-02-2012, 09:47 PM
Ali at his consummate best? hell na,there are only a few heavies through history id give a fair chance of beating him,and Lewis isnt one of them,who is the only stand out name on either klits resume

Derranged
01-02-2012, 09:48 PM
Lenox would have given Ali trouble, that's about it.


I also think the Klits could have given Ali trouble as well.

slicksouthpaw16
01-03-2012, 03:55 AM
Lewis was nowhere near fluid enough to beat Ali. His size and reach would give him problems but at the end of the day, i see Lewis having a hard time keeping up with Ali's movement and angles. He'd be out boxed.

Joeyzagz
01-03-2012, 12:02 PM
Lewis was nowhere near fluid enough to beat Ali. His size and reach would give him problems but at the end of the day, i see Lewis having a hard time keeping up with Ali's movement and angles. He'd be out boxed.

Lennox is not a damned robot like Vitali. He is more selective with his shots and doesnt throw unnecessary punches. Rope-a-dope wont work on someone as cautious as Lennox.

He can also KTFO you if you try to bang with him. I seriously would like to know how Ali has any chance against Lennox.

SBleeder
01-03-2012, 12:15 PM
Lennox is not a damned robot like Vitali. He is more selective with his shots and doesnt throw unnecessary punches. Rope-a-dope wont work on someone as cautious as Lennox.

He can also KTFO you if you try to bang with him. I seriously would like to know how Ali has any chance against Lennox.

The only guys that gave Ali any real problems were attacking volume punchers. If Ali throws 3 punches for every one that Lennox throws, combined with Ali's laser accuracy, then I don't see how Lewis has any chance.

Cardinal Buck
01-03-2012, 02:27 PM
I'd put old Lewis around pick-em versus post-exile Ali.

At the tail end of his reign, I think it's unlikely that Ali would get through Chambers, Iggy, Haye, Byrd, Sanders, Chagaev, Solis, Gomez and Thompson in succession. Statistically, it's unlikely because each guy would have some chance of winning, some greater than others.

If Young almost beat Ali, I don't see why Bryd wouldn't perform at least as well.

And Solis deserves a mention. I don't really think we've seen what level he's at yet, given the way that the Vitali fight ended and limited comp leading up. He might have some untapped potential, even if he never drops below 145.

NChristo
01-03-2012, 02:36 PM
And Solis deserves a mention. I don't really think we've seen what level he's at yet, given the way that the Vitali fight ended and limited comp leading up. He might have some untapped potential, even if he never drops below 145.

We saw his potential and talent in the amateurs and we'll never see that Solis again, he had all the talent to become a threat too the Klits and have some standing but he threw it away for another burger.

young_robbed
01-03-2012, 03:52 PM
Why not include my pics in your quote? Does it destroy your resume argument that badly?

Marciano never beat a big fighter EVER, and Louis, Johnson Liston all have unavenged losses. Lennox defeated everyone he faced.
:pat:
I do not include the images since they are annoying. nuff said on that.

I can say the same thing about Lewis. Lewis never beat a fighter similar to Marciano. Furthermore Unavenged losses don't mean much considering who they lost to. Lewis lost to McCall and Rahman, it would be pretty embarrassing if he never avenged those.
Liston only has losses when he was past his prime and when he was green. Louis has losses against Marciano and Charles, both of which were when he was way past his best. His only loss when he was in his prime was against Schmelling, and he avenged that in brutal fashion.
Johnson fought in a totally different environment compared to Lewis, so you can't really compare their wins and losses in the first place.

SirTomJones
01-03-2012, 10:33 PM
Lennox Lewis could have beaten Ali

Weebler I
01-04-2012, 03:13 AM
Lewis doesn't beat Ali. I know the people saying this are just noob posters like I was a few years back.

I'd give Lewis a chance, esp vs the comeback version, but Ali def beats him in my book 8/10.

What does Lewis have? He got a draw/ and ud against an aging Holyfield, had an ugly fight with Vitali at the end of his career (although it looked like he would have beat him more legit had he been younger).

Then there is his overated jab. I want to say underated punching power. Only thing is Lewis didn't look for a KO, he boxed. He could hit though 100%.

people who weren't born in the 70's think there is a massive advancement as the years have gone by, but really it's a much slower process than people think.

slap some brand new grants on Ali, some bigger trunks, he'd look ace. Esp with some better strength conditioning.

You're wrong about that. The athletic, nutritional and strength advancements since the 1970s are just huge, for all sports.

Joeyzagz
01-04-2012, 03:47 AM
:pat:
I do not include the images since they are annoying. nuff said on that.



Yeah... its kinda annoying that Lennox beat Klitschko, Bowe, Tyson and Evander. Why did he have to beat his 4 best contemporaies ? WTF is his problem?

Doesnt he understand that he has to lose to his successor like Joe Louis and Ali did? Damn him!!!

SBleeder
01-04-2012, 07:00 AM
BoxersYou're wrong about that. The athletic, nutritional and strength advancements since the 1970s are just huge, for all sports.

Fighters eat and train the same way they did a half-century ago.

New England
01-04-2012, 09:08 AM
Boxers

Fighters eat and train the same way they did a half-century ago.




not to mention a WW is going to weigh 147 lbs in 1900, 1950, or 2050


and ray robinson is probably going to kick his ass



i will say this, men are getting bigger and stronger and faster on the whole (which means nothing in the weight classes,)

and so far that hasn't made for better boxers at HW, where that sort of trend would matter

SBleeder
01-04-2012, 09:36 AM
not to mention a WW is going to weigh 147 lbs in 1900, 1950, or 2050


and ray robinson is probably going to kick his ass



i will say this, men are getting bigger and stronger and faster on the whole (which means nothing in the weight classes,)

and so far that hasn't made for better boxers at HW, where that sort of trend would matter

Bigger and stronger = Slower and more easily fatigued.

Primo Carnera was faster than most modern heavyweights.

Terry A
01-04-2012, 03:34 PM
Murder me if you want but I also see David Haye having a little chance on beating Ali.

Superflo, I'll say this. You're funny in a good sort of way. You also have big balls to even have hovered your finger over the "Submit Reply" button, let alone to send that gem into cyberspace for all to giggle over. That was a breath of fresh air, being able to cause us to laugh like that on an otherwise so-so kinda day. Everything seemed so serious here, then I read that!

Later on, after I log off, I'm going to walk around the house repeating that line quietly to myself. My wife may see me smiling or giggling and ask what the heck is going on. I'll just tell her it was a good afternoon on the boxing threads!

I'm going to send you some Good Karma for being honest with how you feel as well as for being a good sport with the razing you'll not doubt have to endure over picking a guy with an ingrown toenail or turf-toe to beat "The Greatest".

young_robbed
01-04-2012, 04:59 PM
Yeah... its kinda annoying that Lennox beat Klitschko, Bowe, Tyson and Evander. Why did he have to beat his 4 best contemporaies ? WTF is his problem?
Your sarcasm doesn't make any sense here. Lewis beat an amateur Bowe. So that's irrelevant. I decide to give immense credit for him beating Klitschko of course. Tyson was shot obviously. and Holyfield was past it. As past it as Louis was against Marciano

DeepSleep
01-13-2012, 08:06 PM
I'd give prime Lennox a shot to beat 70's Ali but I'd still favor Ali to win. 60's Ali would have little problem with prime Lennox at all in my book.

Call me crazy but I think Chris Byrd could give 70's Ali some serious issues but I don't think he could win.

res
01-20-2012, 02:03 PM
On paper Lewis has an advantage over Ali in every single aspect except speed.

Honestly I could see lewis TKO'ing Ali with ease. 2 different eras, 2 different athletes.

The only advantage I see here is power. and Ali was usually trumped in that area.

Reach? it won't do Lewis any good from a practical standpoint, Ali out jabs him.

Also, I think Foreman and Holmes' post-prime activity in the 90's permanently put to sleep the evolution myth.

nomadman
01-20-2012, 07:09 PM
Why is everyone comparing a prime Ali to a past prime Lennox? That's hardly fair is it?

Question stated if anyone on either Klits' resume beats Ali, but not necessarily in the condition they fought one of the brothers in. Also didn't state anything about what condition Ali is in.

nomadman
01-20-2012, 07:11 PM
Boxers

Fighters eat and train the same way they did a half-century ago.

From the nineties (even eighties) onwards you have to factor in the effect of steroids at the highest levels of the game. That's what most people mean when they talk about "nutritional advances".

Mannie Phresh
01-20-2012, 07:12 PM
naw not even lewis.

Boxing Bob
01-20-2012, 07:16 PM
there's two answers to the question- NO and HELL NO!

Mannie Phresh
01-20-2012, 07:24 PM
i will say that i feel vitali has a better chance of beating ali than lennox does. vitali always has applied pressure on his opponents used by imposing his jab, size, and range. i feel lennox would be doing his poor mans ali against ali would be ineffective. where as vitalis measured, and increasingly applied pressure would have a better chance at beating ali. i feel ali would beat both confidently im just stating who i think would have the better chance at the upset. vitali v lennox i go with lennox.

nomadman
01-21-2012, 08:30 AM
well under that question then, I'd think any of them that are still breathing can beat Ali

Obviously some degree of fairness has to enter into the equation. Prime vs prime, shall we say? Or condition during biggest win vs condition vs biggest win. Not prime vs slightly past-prime-and-out-of-shape-last-fight-before-retirement.

IronDanHamza
01-21-2012, 01:44 PM
From the nineties (even eighties) onwards you have to factor in the effect of steroids at the highest levels of the game. That's what most people mean when they talk about "nutritional advances".

They actually don't.

When most people say "Nutritional advances" that's exactly what they mean.

They're referring to upgrades in Nutrition. Meaning foods.

IronDanHamza
01-21-2012, 01:45 PM
Obviously some degree of fairness has to enter into the equation. Prime vs prime, shall we say? Or condition during biggest win vs condition vs biggest win. Not prime vs slightly past-prime-and-out-of-shape-last-fight-before-retirement.

People are comparing a past prime Lewis to a prime Ali because that's what version Klitschko fought.

A prime Lewis isn't on Vitali's resume.

nomadman
01-22-2012, 05:32 AM
People are comparing a past prime Lewis to a prime Ali because that's what version Klitschko fought.

A prime Lewis isn't on Vitali's resume.

If you're going to insist on the 37 year old Lewis as an opponent then I'll insist on a 37 year old Ali as his opponent. Who wins that?

The_Demon
01-22-2012, 09:47 AM
If you're going to insist on the 37 year old Lewis as an opponent then I'll insist on a 37 year old Ali as his opponent. Who wins that?

Im pretty sure TS meant 'does anyone on the Klits resume beat a prime Ali',i assume so anyway,and the answer is no,that is all

IronDanHamza
01-22-2012, 10:54 AM
If you're going to insist on the 37 year old Lewis as an opponent then I'll insist on a 37 year old Ali as his opponent. Who wins that?

I'm not insisting on a 37 year old Lennox Lewis I'm saying you have to compare it was a 37 year old Lewis because the question is; "Does anyone on either of Klitschko's resume beat Ali?" and as far as I'm aware the Lewis that Klitschko fought was 37 years old.

And I'm pretty sure that the TS is asking who on either Klitschko's resume would beat a prime Ali.

Which the answer is; No.

nomadman
01-22-2012, 11:49 AM
Im pretty sure TS meant 'does anyone on the Klits resume beat a prime Ali',i assume so anyway,and the answer is no,that is all

He should have said that then. He didn't, so anyone can assume anything they like.

The_Demon
01-22-2012, 12:02 PM
He should have said that then. He didn't, so anyone can assume anything they like.

Well you assume he means the versions of opponents that the Klits actually fought,thats why he said 'the klits resume',and why wouldnt it be prime Ali? isnt it always a prime version of a fighter when talking about fantasy match-ups,unless stated otherwise

IronDanHamza
01-22-2012, 12:11 PM
He should have said that then. He didn't, so anyone can assume anything they like.

It's common sense.

He's obviously asking whether anyone Klitschko(s) beat - meaning obviously the versions of the fighters they beat, could beat a prime Muhammad Ali.

Which again, the answer is obviously no.

nomadman
01-22-2012, 12:37 PM
Well you assume he means the versions of opponents that the Klits actually fought,thats why he said 'the klits resume',and why wouldnt it be prime Ali? isnt it always a prime version of a fighter when talking about fantasy match-ups,unless stated otherwise

Not in this scenario, clearly.

nomadman
01-22-2012, 12:38 PM
It's common sense.

He's obviously asking whether anyone Klitschko(s) beat - meaning obviously the versions of the fighters they beat, could beat a prime Muhammad Ali.

Which again, the answer is obviously no.

He never said anything about fighters they beat, only faced.

The_Demon
01-22-2012, 12:38 PM
It's common sense.

He's obviously asking whether anyone Klitschko(s) beat - meaning obviously the versions of the fighters they beat, could beat a prime Muhammad Ali.

Which again, the answer is obviously no.

Case closed

The_Demon
01-22-2012, 12:41 PM
He never said anything about fighters they beat, only faced.

So its obviously an old Lewis then isnt it,thats the version Vitali actually faced

IronDanHamza
01-22-2012, 01:06 PM
He never said anything about fighters they beat, only faced.

Faced, beat, same difference.

Vitali fought a 37 year old version of Lennox Lewis so that's the version that is to be compared to Muhammad Ali in this situation.

IronDanHamza
01-22-2012, 01:13 PM
Not in this scenario, clearly.

So when the TS say's "Would anyone who Klitschko(s) fought beat Ali" what do you think he means?

Do you think he doesn't mean a prime Ali?

The TS is obviously asking if any of the fighters that the Klitschko's fought (The versions of them they fought) could beat a prime Ali.

It's not difficult.

nomadman
01-22-2012, 02:21 PM
So when the TS say's "Would anyone who Klitschko(s) fought beat Ali" what do you think he means?

Do you think he doesn't mean a prime Ali?

The TS is obviously asking if any of the fighters that the Klitschko's fought (The versions of them they fought) could beat a prime Ali.

It's not difficult.

I have no idea what he definitely means. His question was rather vague.

But thank you for your interpretation.

Ray Corso
01-24-2012, 01:18 PM
Yes its possible that all of them could defeat Ali if they ALL attacked him at the same time!!!! None of those young men would be capable of defeating Ali if your considering their talents against his. Fights aren't won on paper but thats all you have when your considering imaginary match ups. I don't see Lenox defeating Ali neither however I would give Lenox the nod over a few of the older generation fighters. Theres something to be said for a heavyweight who corrects his mistakes and makes retrobution for past failures. Ray

them_apples
01-24-2012, 05:36 PM
Lewis definently doesn't beat a prime Ali. With that slow ass overated Jab of his.

He had an 84 reach which made his jab effective, but it's nothing Ali hasn't seen before, fighting Liston (84) Foreman (82) and im pretty sure Cleveland Williams was packing an 82 as well.

Holmes Jab was far superior to Lewis. The rest of Lewis arsenal is nothing spectacular I see Ali stopping Lewis late he's from an era based on hard work and determination.

Not to take anything away from Lewis. ATG for sure. I see him making mincemeat of a lot of opponent's Ali fought as well.

nomadman
01-24-2012, 06:18 PM
Lewis definently doesn't beat a prime Ali. With that slow ass overated Jab of his.

He had an 84 reach which made his jab effective, but it's nothing Ali hasn't seen before, fighting Liston (84) Foreman (82) and im pretty sure Cleveland Williams was packing an 82 as well.

Holmes Jab was far superior to Lewis. The rest of Lewis arsenal is nothing spectacular I see Ali stopping Lewis late he's from an era based on hard work and determination.

Not to take anything away from Lewis. ATG for sure.

You need to review Lewis's fights again, because you're way off base with almost everything you said.

-Deal With It-
01-24-2012, 07:44 PM
You need to review Lewis's fights again, because you're way off base with almost everything you said.

Well sir, i've personally "reviewed" every single one of Lewis's fights, from Razor Ruddock on up, and everything that fine gentleman stated (to whom your reply was aimed at) was indeed, factually accurate.

I don't trust a guy with a gastank as questionable as Lewis's in an era of 15 rd'ers, againt the tough, durable & rugid opponents of Ali's era, Nor do i trust his shaky ass chin in said era.

Lewis is an excellent all around boxer, GREAT finisher & a underrated combination puncher. BUT his jab WAS infact lazy, inconsistent & just plain overrated. This is the same guy that lost the battle of the jab with Ray ****ing Mercer for christssake. A GUY WHO HAS NO JAB. If Lewis can get outjabbed by Ray Mercer, he DAMN SURE can get outjabbed and get big looping circles boxed around him by Ali.

Not only does Ali, Holmes & Liston have a better jab than Lewis, i would say even Wlad has a better & more effective jab than Lewis.

GoogleMe
01-25-2012, 05:56 AM
Easy now, Ali did get beat at times. I think Lewis could, and Wladimir + Vitali would be very competitive against Ali.

res
01-25-2012, 02:20 PM
You need to review Lewis's fights again, because you're way off base with almost everything you said.

You just can not put a conventional Boxer-puncher up against Ali that is slower than he is, it will not work. I don't care if he has power.

To beat Ali you need to be a swarmer with a lot of stamina, or borrow Norton's crab style which neutralizes the Boxer-punchers ability to work off the jab, or through some miracle, actually be a faster more skilled Boxer puncher than he is.



Lewis definently doesn't beat a prime Ali. With that slow ass overated Jab of his.

He had an 84 reach which made his jab effective, but it's nothing Ali hasn't seen before, fighting Liston (84) Foreman (82) and im pretty sure Cleveland Williams was packing an 82 as well.

Holmes Jab was far superior to Lewis. The rest of Lewis arsenal is nothing spectacular I see Ali stopping Lewis late he's from an era based on hard work and determination.

Not to take anything away from Lewis. ATG for sure. I see him making mincemeat of a lot of opponent's Ali fought as well.

Jim Jeffries
01-25-2012, 03:37 PM
Easy now, Ali did get beat at times. I think Lewis could, and Wladimir + Vitali would be very competitive against Ali.

Well Ali was never beaten pre prime, he lost his peak prime due to the ban and lost some close decisions to some great fighters while past prime. I used to think Wlad might give Ali some trouble with his jab, but not after he had a hard time hitting David Haye with it.

Superflo777
01-25-2012, 04:26 PM
Well Ali was never beaten pre prime, he lost his peak prime due to the ban and lost some close decisions to some great fighters while past prime. I used to think Wlad might give Ali some trouble with his jab, but not after he had a hard time hitting David Haye with it.

There is no way you can know Ali's peak was exactly at the time he was banned, and not before.

And unlike David Haye, Ali hopefully wouldn't run away for the whole fight not wanting to win but only wanting to not get knocked out.

Jim Jeffries
01-25-2012, 04:54 PM
There is no way you can know Ali's peak was exactly at the time he was banned, and not before.

Well since Ali was still improving before the ban and had lost a fair bit of his speed and athleticism when he came back, it seems fairly obvious.

And unlike David Haye, Ali hopefully wouldn't run away for the whole fight not wanting to win but only wanting to not get knocked out.

66/67 Ali was very hard to hit cleanly, certainly more than David Haye. And when he wasn't peppering Wlad with jabs and combos, he would more than likely be on his bicycle (or "running" as you put it.)

The_Demon
01-25-2012, 05:39 PM
There is no way you can know Ali's peak was exactly at the time he was banned, and not before.

And unlike David Haye, Ali hopefully wouldn't run away for the whole fight not wanting to win but only wanting to not get knocked out.

Its called 'movement',its something boxers have used since the sport began,although it has faded out dramatically in the HW division over the last ten years

I was also shocked when Wlad didnt KO that glass chinned bum hypejob former cruiserweight,but Haye moved his head to avoid his opponents punches,it was quite incredible wasnt it

I hope you get the sarcasm in my post,but i wouldnt be surprised if you didnt

nomadman
01-26-2012, 06:12 PM
Well Ali was never beaten pre prime, he lost his peak prime due to the ban and lost some close decisions to some great fighters while past prime. I used to think Wlad might give Ali some trouble with his jab, but not after he had a hard time hitting David Haye with it.

I don't understand using the Haye fight as a blueprint for success here. Haye got whitewashed and barely touched Wlad. That was mostly down to the jab, which did land, and landed often.

joseph5620
01-26-2012, 06:57 PM
I don't understand using the Haye fight as a blueprint for success here. Haye got whitewashed and barely touched Wlad. That was mostly down to the jab, which did land, and landed often.




When Haye did land, Wlad held on as if his life depended on it. And I'm pretty sure Ali would hit Wlad a lot.

Barnburner
01-26-2012, 07:02 PM
When Haye did land, Wlad held on as if his life depended on it. And I'm pretty sure Ali would hit Wlad a lot.
I really wanted Wlad to win that fight and every time Haye went forward I was ****tin' myself.

Jim Jeffries
01-26-2012, 07:23 PM
I don't understand using the Haye fight as a blueprint for success here. Haye got whitewashed and barely touched Wlad. That was mostly down to the jab, which did land, and landed often.

Meh, Wlad landed 9 jabs a round, at a rate of 28%, which isn't going to get it done against Ali. Nevermind that with Ali's jab and elusiveness, I'm fairly certain that he wouldn't even have (nearly) that much success. Could be that Wlad's on the slide, because he landed the jab more frequently against the more slippery (than Haye) Byrd, but it definitely had me viewing Wlad/Ali in a different light (I always though Vitali would be fairly easy work for Ali.)

nomadman
01-26-2012, 07:36 PM
When Haye did land, Wlad held on as if his life depended on it. And I'm pretty sure Ali would hit Wlad a lot.

Wlad always does that. It's become a reflex action now. And about the only thing Haye has on Ali is punching power. Not even sure why someone thought to compare the two in the first place really since aside from their trashtalking they have very little in common either in style or class.

nomadman
01-26-2012, 07:41 PM
Meh, Wlad landed 9 jabs a round, at a rate of 28%, which isn't going to get it done against Ali. Nevermind that with Ali's jab and elusiveness, I'm fairly certain that he wouldn't even have (nearly) that much success. Could be that Wlad's on the slide, because he landed the jab more frequently against the more slippery (than Haye) Byrd, but it definitely had me viewing Wlad/Ali in a different light (I always though Vitali would be fairly easy work for Ali.)

If anything changed my opinion of Wlad in that fight it was the fact that he didn't seem to hurt Haye with his shots. Not sure if he was reticent to put full power in the punches, if Haye has a better chin than credited with or was so focused that he naturally went with the shot, but it gave me food for thought.

But whatever, no one in their right mind should expect Wlad to KO Ali anyway.

Jim Jeffries
01-26-2012, 07:55 PM
If anything changed my opinion of Wlad in that fight it was the fact that he didn't seem to hurt Haye with his shots. Not sure if he was reticent to put full power in the punches, if Haye has a better chin than credited with or was so focused that he naturally went with the shot, but it gave me food for thought.

I have no doubt that Wlad could knock out Haye with either the left hook or his right hand. But I don't think he had enough success with the jab to get Haye in a position where he could tee off without fear of an overhand right coming back.

But whatever, no one in their right mind should expect Wlad to KO Ali anyway.

I never thought he would KO Ali, or even outpoint him. I just thought that Wlad could make it a hell of a lot more interesting that the usual "Ali KO2" predictions you see in NSB. Now I think either he gets decisively outpointed, tires himself out trying to hit Ali and stopped late or loses on cuts.

joseph5620
01-26-2012, 07:56 PM
Wlad always does that. It's become a reflex action now. And about the only thing Haye has on Ali is punching power. Not even sure why someone thought to compare the two in the first place really since aside from their trashtalking they have very little in common either in style or class.

More likely because he has no inside game and he doesn't trust his chin.


I don't know whether Haye punches harder than Ali or not. What quality heavyweights has Haye ever knocked out?

nomadman
01-26-2012, 08:07 PM
I have no doubt that Wlad could knock out Haye with either the left hook or his right hand. But I don't think he had enough success with the jab to get Haye in a position where he could tee off without fear of an overhand right coming back.

He landed solidly a couple of times. Considering Haye was supposed to have a glass jaw and Wlad was supposed to be one of the biggest punchers around it was a little shocking that Haye didn't even look stunned by any of those shots.

I never thought he would KO Ali, or even outpoint him. I just thought that Wlad could make it a hell of a lot more interesting that the usual "Ali KO2" predictions you see in NSB. Now I think either he gets decisively outpointed, tires himself out trying to hit Ali and stopped late or loses on cuts.

This is all very possible. But I wouldn't totally rule out the possibility of Wlad winning on the cards, considering no one has ever come close to outpointing him before. I think the fight goes to the cards regardless.

nomadman
01-26-2012, 08:10 PM
More likely because he has no inside game and he doesn't trust his chin.

Yeah that's probably right. But he still does it doesn't he?

I don't know whether Haye punches harder than Ali or not. What quality heavyweights has Haye ever knocked out?

That's just my guess, based on watching both men throw and land. And considering there's no objective way to measure punching power among different era heavyweights, that's all anyone can do.

Mike Tyson77
01-28-2012, 09:12 PM
Wlad was the size,skill and punching power that Ali never saw during his time. I think Wlad would win a close one against Ali. And Vitali would give Ali fits to. Ali would have to run around that ring like a chicken to have a chance. If 5'11 Fraizer could knock Ali down a 6'6'' 240 lb Wlad could also.

Ziggy Stardust
01-28-2012, 10:49 PM
Wlad was the size,skill and punching power that Ali never saw during his time. I think Wlad would win a close one against Ali. And Vitali would give Ali fits to. Ali would have to run around that ring like a chicken to have a chance. If 5'11 Fraizer could knock Ali down a 6'6'' 240 lb Wlad could also.

Shouldn't you be off making hats out of tinfoil and watching for the black helicopters?

Poet

them_apples
01-29-2012, 03:37 AM
Wlad was the size,skill and punching power that Ali never saw during his time. I think Wlad would win a close one against Ali. And Vitali would give Ali fits to. Ali would have to run around that ring like a chicken to have a chance. If 5'11 Fraizer could knock Ali down a 6'6'' 240 lb Wlad could also.

Not if you see it coming. Foreman couldn't drop Ali, Shavers couldn't either. Both those men hit much harder than Frazier. Go learn about boxing.

The K bros are 1-1-2 boxers. Nothing tricky at all, Ali isn't going to get dropped by that in a million years. Even briggs who got plastered flush 100's of times didn't go down.

GJC
01-29-2012, 11:16 AM
Wlad was the size,skill and punching power that Ali never saw during his time. I think Wlad would win a close one against Ali. And Vitali would give Ali fits to. Ali would have to run around that ring like a chicken to have a chance. If 5'11 Fraizer could knock Ali down a 6'6'' 240 lb Wlad could also.
Yes Wlad is unique :)

MJ223
02-02-2012, 12:47 PM
No..... Not at all

BennyST
02-03-2012, 02:13 AM
Your sarcasm doesn't make any sense here. Lewis beat an amateur Bowe. So that's irrelevant. I decide to give immense credit for him beating Klitschko of course. Tyson was shot obviously. and Holyfield was past it. As past it as Louis was against Marciano

That's just silly. Holyfield was still the unified, lineal champ and had just come off some of the best wins in his career and looking very, very good for his 36 years. Louis was just done. He wasn't champ anymore and was utterly dominated by Charles in his last title fight. Holyfield looked great in those fights considering who he was fighting and went on to regain the HW title again after Lewis. Despite similar ages, there was a very big difference in their fighting spirits left.

res
02-03-2012, 05:28 AM
Not if you see it coming. Foreman couldn't drop Ali, Shavers couldn't either. Both those men hit much harder than Frazier. Go learn about boxing.

The K bros are 1-1-2 boxers. Nothing tricky at all, Ali isn't going to get dropped by that in a million years. Even briggs who got plastered flush 100's of times didn't go down.

Frazier also downed Ali after pounding on his body for 15 rounds, something the Klitchkos won't be doing. They also won't be swarming and brawling, they'll be trying to catch him with Technical Boxing, which is absurd

joseph5620
02-03-2012, 06:17 PM
That's just silly. Holyfield was still the unified, lineal champ and had just come off some of the best wins in his career and looking very, very good for his 36 years. Louis was just done. He wasn't champ anymore and was utterly dominated by Charles in his last title fight. Holyfield looked great in those fights considering who he was fighting and went on to regain the HW title again after Lewis. Despite similar ages, there was a very big difference in their fighting spirits left.

True. And Holyfield was the favorite against Lewis. Most writers picked Hoylfield to win.

Mike Tyson77
02-04-2012, 02:02 AM
Not if you see it coming. Foreman couldn't drop Ali, Shavers couldn't either. Both those men hit much harder than Frazier. Go learn about boxing.

The K bros are 1-1-2 boxers. Nothing tricky at all, Ali isn't going to get dropped by that in a million years. Even briggs who got plastered flush 100's of times didn't go down.



You go learn about boxing. Ali NEVER fought anyone as big as the Klitschkos, and if you think the Klitschkos only good trait is because they are big....then you are tard. Ali could only survive if he ran like he was at a trak meet. That rope a dope **** would have gotten Ali put in the ICU if he tryed that **** against Vitali. Oh, and did briggs win??? No he lost every ****in round dummy.

Ziggy Stardust
02-04-2012, 02:08 AM
You go learn about boxing. Ali NEVER fought anyone as big as the Klitschkos, and if you think the Klitschkos only good trait is because they are big....then you are tard. Ali could only survive if he ran like he was at a trak meet. That rope a dope **** would have gotten Ali put in the ICU if he tryed that **** against Vitali. Oh, and did briggs win??? No he lost every ****in round dummy.

^^^^^ Another Klitlicker I see. Sorry Junior, but when they're shoveling dirt over you maggot ridden carcass you STILL won't have learned as much about boxing as Them Apples knows. Get real. Coming into the History Section with that nuthugging BS.

Poet

Mike Tyson77
02-04-2012, 02:20 AM
^^^^^ Another Klitlicker I see. Sorry Junior, but when they're shoveling dirt over you maggot ridden carcass you STILL won't have learned as much about boxing as Them Apples knows. Get real. Coming into the History Section with that nuthugging BS.

Poet


I know alot. Didnt Ali get floored my some cooper bum and a 5'11 210 frazier??? Well I think the Klitschkos could have put Ali on his ass if some cooper bum could. "Big" George was 6'3' 220, Vitali is 6'7'' 250. Ya, let Ali just lean on the ropes taking shots from Vitali and Ali would have had his head removed. Call me a nuthugger, yall are Ali nuthuggers.

Ziggy Stardust
02-04-2012, 02:30 AM
I know alot.

You know very little Junior.


Didnt Ali get floored my some cooper bum and a 5'11 210 frazier??? Well I think the Klitschkos could have put Ali on his ass if some cooper bum could.

Hmmmm, didn't Vitali quit on his stool against an out of shape MIDDLEWEIGHT? Didn't Wlad get KTFO by a pro-golfer who moonlighted as a part-time tomato can club fighter? 'Nuff said.


"Big" George was 6'3' 220, Vitali is 6'7'' 250. Ya, let Ali just lean on the ropes taking shots from Vitali and Ali would have had his head removed. Call me a nuthugger, yall are Ali nuthuggers.

So that's all you can come with? The Klits are BIG? Pu-lease.....You better be able to do better than THAT. It's typical of the low-intellect horse sh1t I've come to expect from Klitlickers. Like size really took Primo Carnera places didn't it? Then again, you nuthug a couple of Carnera clones.

Poet

Mike Tyson77
02-04-2012, 02:47 AM
You know very little Junior.




Hmmmm, didn't Vitali quit on his stool against an out of shape MIDDLEWEIGHT? Didn't Wlad get KTFO by a pro-golfer who moonlighted as a part-time tomato can club fighter? 'Nuff said.




So that's all you can come with? The Klits are BIG? Pu-lease.....You better be able to do better than THAT. It's typical of the low-intellect horse sh1t I've come to expect from Klitlickers. Like size really took Primo Carnera places didn't it? Then again, you nuthug a couple of Carnera clones.
Poet

Didnt Ali get beat by some neon leon bum with like 6 pro fights? And to even compare the Klitschkos to Carnera just shows how stupid you are. You Klitschko haters are just plain pathetic. Youre not wasting anymore of my time.

Vadrigar.
02-04-2012, 03:57 AM
You go learn about boxing. Ali NEVER fought anyone as big as the Klitschkos, and if you think the Klitschkos only good trait is because they are big....then you are tard. Ali could only survive if he ran like he was at a trak meet. That rope a dope **** would have gotten Ali put in the ICU if he tryed that **** against Vitali. Oh, and did briggs win??? No he lost every ****in round dummy.

Listen dunce, your whole argument is based on the size of the klitschkos so stfu and learn some boxing.

gosh, you are stupid :lol1:

Superflo777
02-04-2012, 04:07 AM
Hmmmm, didn't Vitali quit on his stool against an out of shape MIDDLEWEIGHT? Didn't Wlad get KTFO by a pro-golfer who moonlighted as a part-time tomato can club fighter? 'Nuff said.

You gotta be a real bad Klit hater to pull something ridiculous as this, Vitali quitting on an injury once in 45 frikkin' fights and bringin Wlad into the argument because you couldn't find any record of Vitali getting knocked down...ever, when the other poster posted some valid, true statements about Ali getting knocked down by two cruiserweights in his prime. But yeah, keep going on, the Klitschko's are just big with no talent and that automatically means they rule the heavyweight division. Nikolai Valuev didn't rule the heavyweight division because...yeah..that doesn't matter, right?

JAB5239
02-04-2012, 05:00 AM
Thread closed. To many insults and going in circles.