View Full Version : Ranking Floyd Mayweather in history


Sam Donald
12-30-2011, 06:20 AM
I have been looking at Ring Magazines 80 best fighters of the last 80 years

I know it was published in 2002 but from a 2011 standpoint, surely Mayweather is ranked in the top 30

RM top 30:


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Barney Ross
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Ike Williams
24. Salvador Sanchez
25. George Foreman
26. Kid Gavilian
27. Larry Holmes
28. Mickey Walker
29. Ruben Olivares
30. Gene Tunney

The highlighted names, to me, have not done anything worthy to be ahead of Floyd Mayweather in all time rankings.

I am not judging them by their boxing ability but what they accomplished in their era and compare it to what Mayweather has done in his

Mayweather - Five division world champion

Harry Greb - Fought 300fights or so, won middleweight and light heavyweight title.

Benny Leonard - Lightweight world champion

Rocky Marciano - 49-0 heavyweight champion

Eder Jofre - Bantamweight and featherweight world champion

Ike Williams - Lightweight champion

Gene Tunney - Heavyweight champion

Floyd Mayweather has accomplished more than these fighters.

However you want to look at it.

TBear
12-30-2011, 06:29 AM
RM top 30:


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Barney Ross
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Ike Williams
24. Salvador Sanchez
25. George Foreman
26. Kid Gavilian
27. Larry Holmes
28. Mickey Walker
29. Ruben Olivares
30. Gene Tunney

.

There, I placed Mayweather where I think he belongs on this list. I'm sure other might disagree.

Barnburner
12-30-2011, 06:31 AM
Firstly, we can't rate his career until he's done, he might go onto to dominate both Pacquiao and Martinez so who knows, or get brutally beat down by them.

Harry Greb beat 18 World Champions and 13 Hall of Famers, some as many as 6 times. He was the premier MW and LHW in the world for a number of years and was frozen out of a HW title bout with Dempsey that many clamoured for. He also fought most of his HW bouts weighing as a LHW and a lighter LHW at that.

Barnburner
12-30-2011, 06:33 AM
Saying that I would definitely rank Mayweather over Marciano.

Harry Balls
12-30-2011, 07:31 AM
greatest lightweight of all time > Floyd Mayweather.

It's not all about collecting belts. It's about who you fight and when. Mayweather is not even close to the resume of Leonard or Greb and frankly many many others.

IronDanHamza
12-30-2011, 10:38 AM
Harry Greb and Benny Leonard are Top 10 ATG's and have some of the premier Resume's in the History of the sport.

Floyd Mayweather isn't even on the same planet as them in terms of greatness.

Out of the other fighters you higlighted I would only rank him over Marciano.

Kid McCoy
12-30-2011, 10:52 AM
The thing to remember when building up modern fighters for winning X number of titles is titles are much, much more abundant nowadays. In fact you have to be a pretty poor fighter these days to not pick up a belt. Today there are about 20 weight classes with up to five champions in each (if you count the Ring). When all those others were fighting there were only eight recognised divisions with one champion in each.

I don't see any case for rating Mayweather over any of those, except perhaps Marciano.

Sam Donald
12-30-2011, 10:57 AM
Fair play on Greb and Leonard. Going by what you have read or heard, but that's how fighters are ranked. Resumes not actual footage of how they fought

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IO2dTnFl2Z0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That is awful. ^

People, what about Jofre, Williams and Tunney

NChristo
12-30-2011, 11:31 AM
Rank him when his career is over.
Also you should probably research boxers before just assuming that Floyd is greater then them, Floyd being greater then Greb or Leonard is laughable.

Jofre was a dominant champ in probably the strongest Bantam era ever, Imo he beat Harada both times, then after a lay off he moved up to beat a great Featherweight in Legra and then a top 5 FW in Saldivar (Although past it still good win), talent / skills wise he was often compared to Ray Robinson. You need too really study his era too know why Jofre is usually regarded as so great.

RubenSonny
12-30-2011, 12:47 PM
He should be rated over Marciano, but he doesn't have a case to be ranked above the other fighters.

crold1
12-30-2011, 03:01 PM
There is no case for Floyd over Greb.

None.

As to the footage, a LOT of old sparring footage looks like that. It was exaggerated for cameras in a different time. Don't take it too serious. Look at who he beat that there is actual fight footage of (and there's plenty). Read the volumes of reports on the man. There's more than enough to make a reasonable judgement of how good he must have been.

And more than enough to write Greb > Mayweather and move on without blinking.

On Williams: Lightweight champion when belts couldn't be cherry picked; beat better fighters than Floyd (Jack, Montogomery, and Gavilan just to start).

Jofre: Technically brilliant but I understand arguments about his resume.

Marciano: Floyd got that...but Rock shouldn't be in the top 30 in the first place.

Tunney: Beat better fighters and would have been champ at Light Heavy with a shot. Winning in less classes than Floyd is irrelevant; he didn't have as many to compete in and started too big anyways. Lacks diversity.

Barnburner
12-30-2011, 03:05 PM
There is no case for Floyd over Greb.

None.

As to the footage, a LOT of old sparring footage looks like that. It was exaggerated for cameras in a different time. Don't take it too serious. Look at who he beat that there is actual fight footage of (and there's plenty). Read the volumes of reports on the man. There's more than enough to make a reasonable judgement of how good he must have been.

And more than enough to write Greb > Mayweather and move on without blinking.

On Williams: Lightweight champion when belts couldn't be cherry picked; beat better fighters than Floyd (Jack, Montogomery, and Gavilan just to start).

Jofre: Technically brilliant but I understand arguments about his resume.

Marciano: Floyd got that...but Rock shouldn't be in the top 30 in the first place.

Tunney: Beat better fighters and would have been champ at Light Heavy with a shot. Winning in less classes than Floyd is irrelevant; he didn't have as many to compete in and started too big anyways. Lacks diversity.
Tunney was the LHW champ he just didn't own the belt.

kendom
12-30-2011, 05:10 PM
The only person on that list that I could possibly rank Mayweather over is Marciano, other that.. need to read up on those fighters man

RajahBell
12-31-2011, 10:33 PM
Rocky Marciano > Mayweather. Resume' wise he defeated #4, #13, and #14 on the list. However, it is not just the resume' that makes him higher than Floyd. Marciano is truly a transcendent fighter of the sport at a time when boxing was a Major Sport in America and abroad. ESPN ranked him #51 greatest athletes, not just boxing, of the last century. He is a legend, and that's more pervasive than record or skills.

The problem with Floyd is that he isn't a "Transcendent" figure in Sports or outside boxing, yet. He has the skills to be in the top 10 or even GOAT. However, he hasn't done anything to inspire the masses(the public). Maybe after he retires he'll be appreciated more.

Barnburner
12-31-2011, 10:51 PM
Rocky Marciano > Mayweather. Resume' wise he defeated #4, #13, and #14 on the list. However, it is not just the resume' that makes him higher than Floyd. Marciano is truly a transcendent fighter of the sport at a time when boxing was a Major Sport in America and abroad. ESPN ranked him #51 greatest athletes, not just boxing, of the last century. He is a legend, and that's more pervasive than record or skills.

The problem with Floyd is that he isn't a "Transcendent" figure in Sports or outside boxing, yet. He has the skills to be in the top 10 or even GOAT. However, he hasn't done anything to inspire the masses(the public). Maybe after he retires he'll be appreciated more.
Floyd Mayweather is arguably the most known boxer in the world
and Floyd can't help it boxing isn't as popular these days.

Lets not pretend those versions that Rocky beat were prime now. Comeback Joe Louis, tail end Ezzard Charles not in his prime weight. Archie Moore never really doing anything interesting at Heavyweight.

Those are his best wins and although you might say "Oh there are about the same quality as Joe Louis'" Joe Louis had the longelivity and accomplishments that completely trumps Rocky who only made around 4 defences of his title.

Also Head to Head, Mayweather beats more greats than Marciano does IMO.

RajahBell
01-01-2012, 02:08 AM
Floyd Mayweather is arguably the most known boxer in the world
and Floyd can't help it boxing isn't as popular these days.

Lets not pretend those versions that Rocky beat were prime now. Comeback Joe Louis, tail end Ezzard Charles not in his prime weight. Archie Moore never really doing anything interesting at Heavyweight.

Those are his best wins and although you might say "Oh there are about the same quality as Joe Louis'" Joe Louis had the longelivity and accomplishments that completely trumps Rocky who only made around 4 defences of his title.

Also Head to Head, Mayweather beats more greats than Marciano does IMO.


You might be right about that. Like, I said Mayweather has the skills to be the GOAT. But, I also said that Resume' isn't the determining factor which make Marciano greater than Floyd. Don't get me wrong, resume' is the most important attribute but second to that is reputation. It is his reputation, ability to Transcend boxing that makes him higher than Floyd.

There have been many kings, but if you want to be amongst the greatest, you have to be more than a king. Likewise, Marciano is more than a boxer, he is a legend. He is so legendary, that quality of resume and wins over past prime greats is eclipsed in the eyes of the public. Bert Sugar keeps mentioning "the Pantheon of Sports", well in his era Marciano belonged in that Pantheon not just boxing. Imagine, ESPN ranked him the 51st greatest athlete of the last century.

It's unfair but this is how it is: As of right now, Floyd is just a great defensive fighter. We'll see after he retires what his legacy will be. Maybe if he dies a tragic death like Marciano, the public will rank him higher. :lol1:. Heck, many rank Elvis as the greatest of all time and Marilyn Monroe as the hottest chick ever. Only older people from the same generation, have a better view and guage of their true greatness. As the elders fade away, the newer generation ranks the past greats high by mostly on name recognition and legacy alone. Like many when I was a child, I was conditioned to think that Rocky was one of the greatest even though I never saw him fight. That's how much Marciano's legacy/myth has preceded his resume' and the person himself.

lazy
01-01-2012, 03:25 AM
Marciano was a undisputed champion, not a "titlest". That is the difference. Marciano fought in a time when you couldn't choose and pick your opponents and fight who you wanted.

Barnburner
01-01-2012, 07:57 AM
Marciano was a undisputed champion, not a "titlest". That is the difference. Marciano fought in a time when you couldn't choose and pick your opponents and fight who you wanted.
Floyd Mayweather has been the lineal champion before...

And hell you could still pick and choose opponents back then, ever heard of Burely?

Barnburner
01-01-2012, 07:58 AM
You might be right about that. Like, I said Mayweather has the skills to be the GOAT. But, I also said that Resume' isn't the determining factor which make Marciano greater than Floyd. Don't get me wrong, resume' is the most important attribute but second to that is reputation. It is his reputation, ability to Transcend boxing that makes him higher than Floyd.

There have been many kings, but if you want to be amongst the greatest, you have to be more than a king. Likewise, Marciano is more than a boxer, he is a legend. He is so legendary, that quality of resume and wins over past prime greats is eclipsed in the eyes of the public. Bert Sugar keeps mentioning "the Pantheon of Sports", well in his era Marciano belonged in that Pantheon not just boxing. Imagine, ESPN ranked him the 51st greatest athlete of the last century.

It's unfair but this is how it is: As of right now, Floyd is just a great defensive fighter. We'll see after he retires what his legacy will be. Maybe if he dies a tragic death like Marciano, the public will rank him higher. :lol1:. Heck, many rank Elvis as the greatest of all time and Marilyn Monroe as the hottest chick ever. Only older people from the same generation, have a better view and guage of their true greatness. As the elders fade away, the newer generation ranks the past greats high by mostly on name recognition and legacy alone. Like many when I was a child, I was conditioned to think that Rocky was one of the greatest even though I never saw him fight. That's how much Marciano's legacy/myth has preceded his resume' and the person himself.

Being realistic Floyd is one of the greatest defensive fighters of all time, Top 5 for my money.

So does that mean the superstars such as Ali, Louis, Robinson, Leonard etc. All get ranked very high on your list?

I do suppose it is different criteria but, I don't think using popularity or fame is a balanced method to go by.

project xxx1
01-01-2012, 08:10 AM
nobody here would rank floyd above Pernell Whitaker ?

Check_hooks
01-01-2012, 08:45 AM
I'd put him above malinaggi but below calzaghe

I don't like ducker and dodgers and fighters who only fight every year and a half

Young Money
01-01-2012, 08:53 AM
The highlighted names, to me, have not done anything worthy to be ahead of Floyd Mayweather in all time rankings.


Wow, just wow.

New England
01-01-2012, 09:02 AM
Rocky Marciano > Mayweather. Resume' wise he defeated #4, #13, and #14 on the list. However, it is not just the resume' that makes him higher than Floyd. Marciano is truly a transcendent fighter of the sport at a time when boxing was a Major Sport in America and abroad. ESPN ranked him #51 greatest athletes, not just boxing, of the last century. He is a legend, and that's more pervasive than record or skills.

The problem with Floyd is that he isn't a "Transcendent" figure in Sports or outside boxing, yet. He has the skills to be in the top 10 or even GOAT. However, he hasn't done anything to inspire the masses(the public). Maybe after he retires he'll be appreciated more.



i like the post and am in agreement until the part about floyd having the potential to be the GOAT. his resume requires too WAY much work. he'd be fighting into his forties.

are you talking about the "best" fighter ever?
and not the most accomplished?

ray robinson had every bit of talent that floyd has
the speed
the reflexes. the timing.

he also had a cast iron chin (and floyd has been exposed as simply having a "good" but not great chin)
and he was a knockout puncher
a bonafide knockout puncher


to play floyds game you've got to outbox your opponent to win
you either need to build a lead
or you need to keep your opponent from building an insurmountable lead on you, because you aren't likely to stop a man

those are floyds limitations in terms of his talent
he's not a finisher. it's horribly limiting in terms of your outlook on the fight and the means by which you have to go about winning it.
you cant come back from a deep enough hole
you have to win on points.

he couldnt stop juan manuel marquez (who, as good as he is, has no business finishing a fight with a guy who claims to be an ATG of floyds size.)

so in terms of accomplishments and h2h favorability p4p floyd is still seriously lacking.

and i do think that a more active schedule would help his star rise even more. as it is he's a recognizable character in the sports world and a serious draw, if not a bonafide superstar a la Lebron james.
if he fights pacquiao and looks spectacular in victory he will be one of the "hottest" contemporary athletes in the states, at least until his next fight (provided he doesn't take too much time in between)


he's a hell of a boxer
i'll give him that all day. there arent many in history with his level of craft and polish.

but he's not as accomplished, adored, or frankly as damn good as some of the greatest in the history of the sport

New England
01-01-2012, 09:06 AM
Harry Greb and Benny Leonard are Top 10 ATG's and have some of the premier Resume's in the History of the sport.

Floyd Mayweather isn't even on the same planet as them in terms of greatness.

Out of the other fighters you higlighted I would only rank him over Marciano.


that's honestly a god awful looking top 30



it looks like 10 people argued over it for a few hours and then just sent the thing in after they got too loaded to finish it

i dont mind the top seven, though i'm not huge on the order

crold1
01-01-2012, 10:05 AM
nobody here would rank floyd above Pernell Whitaker ?

I wouldn't. Just discussed this with someone the other day. Floyd doesn't rate ahead of Pernell or Roy in my mind. Real simple: they beat better fighters than him so far.