DM was the champ at lt heavy for as long as I can remember. Here comes jones, an hbo fighter fighting garbage men and cops for a living. He got a title from a fighter that was unjustly stripped. HBO promotes him as the next big thing. Now that he has lost to 2 average fighters at best, can you really argue that DM was the real champ.

At what weight?

The only one I can accept an argument is at lt. heavy.

He earned his middleweight and heavyweight titles, obviously.

No this is about the lt heavy division

No this is about the lt heavy division

In that case, he was a credible champion, but not an undisputed champion.

We could argue that most champs are paper champs unless they defeat the agreed upon top challengers, and none of the alphabet organizations can agree who the top contenders are.

The whole 'beat the man to be the man' thing doesn't always work, but it's a good measuring stick, and Jones doesn't meet that qualification.

Then that Letterlough guy is the lightheavyweight champ I guess. Julio Gonzalez beat Michaelzcewski, bue lost to Letterlough.

How do you say it doesnt work. It has been recorded that the wbc stripped a champ to give roy a title. The wbc got the pants sued off them recently for this. So HBO says your a champ and everyone buys into this?

I guess brewster and james toney are champs also

He would have killed DM and you know it.

Why do I know it? Oh yeah he fought and beat all of those credible opponents before tarver. Sorry I forgot

How do you say it doesnt work. It has been recorded that the wbc stripped a champ to give roy a title. The wbc got the pants sued off them recently for this. So HBO says your a champ and everyone buys into this?

I guess brewster and james toney are champs also



After Roy won the heavyweight belt and went back down to light heavy to face Tarver their was HUUUUUUUUGE controversy on who would go to the ring first, Tarver said im the man with the belt, I go it is just rule of thumb. Roy then argued, Well I vacated those belts and left as the champ and I am back, so I am going to the ring first.

So the whole bull**** got printed and the IBO got wind of this and the IBO put their light heavyweight belt on Jones so he could go to the ring first, thinking it would gain notoriety and gain recognition....

It failed.

I usually dont count people like that as champs. If fans got together and decided not to support these paper chumps boxing would be better today. I am a firm believer of the linear title.

I usually dont count people like that as champs. If fans got together and decided not to support these paper chumps boxing would be better today. I am a firm believer of the linear title.


I totally agree, Although some of the linear champs today well get my thumbs down.....

Differcult situation, Jones didn`t beat the linar champ in DM but he did fight better than you claim. He beat Mike McCallum and i know the WBC belt was bogus but McCallum still had something to offer. Montell Griffin was a decent fighter, so was Louis Del Valle, Virgil Hill, Reggie Johnson, David Telesco, Eric Harding and Juilo Gonzales. I think because Roy made it look easy people didn`t give him the credit. True he didn`t beat Darius but that fight didn`t happen because Roy refused to fight in German. Watch a Sven Ottke fight and you`ll understand why. The fact is Roy beat everyone else there was at that time. Up until his KO loss to Tarver, Roy had beaten every lightheavy worth mentioning expect Darius so.....even though i acknowledge tha by virture of beating Virgil Hill in June 1997 Daruis was the linar champ, Roy had the better quality of Comp and fought some times 3 times a year. I can`t ignore the opponents on his record, Roy was the lightheavyweight champion!

Then that Letterlough guy is the lightheavyweight champ I guess. Julio Gonzalez beat Michaelzcewski, bue lost to Letterlough.

You mean Erdei.

Differcult situation, Jones didn`t beat the linar champ in DM but he did fight better than you claim. He beat Mike McCallum and i know the WBC belt was bogus but McCallum still had something to offer. Montell Griffin was a decent fighter, so was Louis Del Valle, Virgil Hill, Reggie Johnson, David Telesco, Eric Harding and Juilo Gonzales. I think because Roy made it look easy people didn`t give him the credit. True he didn`t beat Darius but that fight didn`t happen because Roy refused to fight in German. Watch a Sven Ottke fight and you`ll understand why. The fact is Roy beat everyone else there was at that time. Up until his KO loss to Tarver, Roy had beaten every lightheavy worth mentioning expect Darius so.....even though i acknowledge tha by virture of beating Virgil Hill in June 1997 Daruis was the linar champ, Roy had the better quality of Comp and fought some times 3 times a year. I can`t ignore the opponents on his record, Roy was the lightheavyweight champion!

RJJ also wanted a 70/30 split once DM agreed to fight in the United States.

i dunno, how do you duck DM and fight john ruiz, i think ruiz is/was a much more dangerous opponent. jones is a shrewed businessman, he basically bent over john ruiz with no lube on that fight deal. thats why hopkins and jones never had a rematch, both of their egos got in the way of a fair deal and thats also why dm/jones was never done. that fight didnt make financial sense to either man . DM and Jones could both fight joe blow in their home countries and collect nice paydays without much risk.

i dunno, how do you duck DM and fight john ruiz, i think ruiz is/was a much more dangerous opponent. jones is a shrewed businessman, he basically bent over john ruiz with no lube on that fight deal. thats why hopkins and jones never had a rematch, both of their egos got in the way of a fair deal and thats also why dm/jones was never done. that fight didnt make financial sense to either man . DM and Jones could both fight joe blow in their home countries and collect nice paydays without much risk.

Not when Jay Nady is the ref.

Roy was a paper champ at heavyweight but not at the other weight classe he won titles in. Roy was great fighter.

Roy was the man at lightheavyweight, He beat everyonee except DM because he didn't want to fight in Germany, for obvious reasons.

Why do I know it? Oh yeah he fought and beat all of those credible opponents before tarver. Sorry I forgot
Jones was clearly washed up when he faught Tarver. Tarver had no chance even a few fights before that and anyone who thinks so is crazy. Look what Jones did against Johnson he was clearly washed up and look what Johnson did against Tarver. Clearly both of those fighters were B level. They had no chane against Jones even a few fights earlier

It doesn't matter if he beat DM. The lineal championship line was already cut when DM beat Hill. This is moot.

DM never really wanted any part of Jones when Jones was in his prime, and if they had fought with both fighters being in their prime, Jones would have beaten DM with ease - it wouldn't even be close. DM knew this, and so did his manager, don't be fooled by the DM linear champ crap, it means nothing.

Roy Jones was perhaps the most skilled fighter I have ever seen, in his prime nobody could hit the man, but he dropped plenty of fighters when he hit them. The fighters that he didn't KO he made look like they were going in slow motion, he had more speed for his size than anyone else that you could name....

It doesn't matter if he beat DM. The lineal championship line was already cut when DM beat Hill. This is moot.

Because that makes any sense.

DM never really wanted any part of Jones when Jones was in his prime, and if they had fought with both fighters being in their prime, Jones would have beaten DM with ease - it wouldn't even be close. DM knew this, and so did his manager, don't be fooled by the DM linear champ crap, it means nothing.

Roy Jones was perhaps the most skilled fighter I have ever seen, in his prime nobody could hit the man, but he dropped plenty of fighters when he hit them. The fighters that he didn't KO he made look like they were going in slow motion, he had more speed for his size than anyone else that you could name....

DM has something that everyone who fought RJJ at LHW didn't have, power. After beating Hill he was 14-0 with 14 KOs.

I think people who hate Roy Jones are just as delusional as his fans.Even if you hate the man you have to aknowledge that he was great and he didn't get "exposed" until he was 35 years old.

DM has something that everyone who fought RJJ at LHW didn't have, power. After beating Hill he was 14-0 with 14 KOs.


You can have all the power in the world, but if you can't land a shot, you will lose just the same. Roy was much too fast in his prime for the rather slow DM (when comparing the two).

I am not saying DM isn't a good fighter - he is good, but he also has had the benefit of not having to face many of the top fighters outside his own country, even his home state if you will. He has almost always had the "homecourt" advantage throughout his career. In essence, he has had a very good promoter who knew how to keep his fighters' record in tact - and that included talking about Roy Jones, but not getting in the ring with him, even in a nuetral country...

Prime jones would have outboxed Michalczewski, I think.

Jones had titles enough:
The WBC Light Heavyweight Title,,WBA Light Heavyweight Title,IBF Light Heavyweight Title,WBF Light Heavyweight Title,IBA Light Heavyweight Title,NBA Light Heavyweight Title
And I still think that the 3 real titles are: IBF, WBC, WBA. (So not WBO)

If jones would beat DM so easily, why not take the risk to go to the CHAMPS country and fight for the real title?

Oh, I forgot, roid was with HBO, he didn't need to take risks

If jones would beat DM so easily, why not take the risk to go to the CHAMPS country and fight for the real title?

Oh, I forgot, roid was with HBO, he didn't need to take risks


After what happened to Roy at the Olympics, would you go to DM's hometown and look to get a decision? Besides, Roy was the Champ, not DM. Roy offered to fight DM in a nuetral country but DM refused.

Prime jones would have outboxed Michalczewski, I think.

Jones had titles enough:
The WBC Light Heavyweight Title,,WBA Light Heavyweight Title,IBF Light Heavyweight Title,WBF Light Heavyweight Title,IBA Light Heavyweight Title,NBA Light Heavyweight Title
And I still think that the 3 real titles are: IBF, WBC, WBA. (So not WBO)

And DM had the Lineal, IBF, WBA, and WBO titles at light heavyweight and the WBO at cruiserweight. And he should have had the WBC at light heavyweight had the WBC not stolen the belt from Rocchiagini and given it to RJJ.

Roy offered to fight DM in a nuetral country but DM refused.

I don't think that this is true.

I am not saying DM isn't a good fighter - he is good, but he also has had the benefit of not having to face many of the top fighters outside his own country, even his home state if you will. He has almost always had the "homecourt" advantage throughout his career. In essence, he has had a very good promoter who knew how to keep his fighters' record in tact - and that included talking about Roy Jones, but not getting in the ring with him, even in a nuetral country...

DM is Polish not German.

After what happened to Roy at the Olympics, would you go to DM's hometown and look to get a decision? Besides, Roy was the Champ, not DM. Roy offered to fight DM in a nuetral country but DM refused.

DM was the champ, roy was the fabricated champ. Look into it before you post nonsense. And if roy wanted to become a true champ he would have fought DM.

would you go to DM's hometown and look to get a decision

Well if roy would destroy DM like you said, he wouldnt have to worry

DM was the champ, roy was the fabricated champ. Look into it before you post nonsense. And if roy wanted to become a true champ he would have fought DM.



Well if roy would destroy DM like you said, he wouldnt have to worry

Looks like Roy is the Champ to me, show me a belt from a Linier Champ - I suggest you quit with the B.S. and admit Roy was a much better fighter than DM ever was. Who was the P4P king - it sure wasn't DM, who was the man who held the belts - again it wasn't DM....
http://img137.exs.cx/img137/7207/royjonesbelts0hc.jpg

DM is Polish not German.

O.K. - who said anything about him being German?

Roy Jones can beat DM anytime during his prime, man. His mistake was he was too greedy by going back down to LH division and we all know what happened.

O.K. - who said anything about him being German?

You said he had homecourt advantage throughout his career even though he fought in Germany and he was Polish.

Roy Jones can beat DM anytime during his prime, man. His mistake was he was too greedy by going back down to LH division and we all know what happened.

What would you have rather had him do? I'm guessing it isn't having his mandatory Vitali kill him.

Looks like Roy is the Champ to me, show me a belt from a Linier Champ - I suggest you quit with the B.S. and admit Roy was a much better fighter than DM ever was. Who was the P4P king - it sure wasn't DM, who was the man who held the belts - again it wasn't DM....
http://img137.exs.cx/img137/7207/royjonesbelts0hc.jpg

If you get a belt without beating a champion, that means you are the champ? And again if roy would have destroyed DM why not fight him? You have not given me 1 valid reason, all you did is post a pic of roy and his bought championships.

roy jones was an unbleievebale fighter in his prime, he was never a paper champ

papa420,

Just come up with 1 part of DM's arsenal that was better than Roy Jones - you can't do it so don't bother.

Roy was faster all the way around, faster hands, faster footwork, even his head movement - you just couldn't hit the guy.

DM has some power - sure

Roy knocked a guy out with a left handed punch that came from behind his back! One shot - bang, goodnight, that's speed and power.

DM gets hit - alot.

Roy didn't - at least not in his prime

Roy was a much better fighter, and he would have had target practice against Darius, just as he did with so many others. Darius would have been unable to land on Jones and at the time neither could anyone else.

Why did Ring Mag have Jones as the top dog? - Because he was the top dog....

Jones made whipping Gonzales look like childsplay, but what happened when DM faced Gonzales? Gonzales defeated DM.

Jones defeated Hopkins and Toney, who are two of the best out there, Darius would have lost to both Hopkins and Toney.

You said he had homecourt advantage throughout his career even though he fought in Germany and he was Polish.

DM is a big name in Germany to be certain, and he is a fan favorite there - but everybody knows you have to KO a fighter just to get a draw in Germany if you are from the United States.

I offer an example: Gonzales fought Darius in Germany, and was winning the fight going away - it wasn't even close, still, the German judge had DM winning it 115-113 !! Thank goodness for the Canadian judge and the American judge scoring it 116-112 for Gonzales, which was the right score for the fight.

Darius refused to fight in the United States, and everyone knows if you want the money and the belts - you have to go where the Champion is which was Jones, the WBO belt which DM held is basically the "Eurobelt" and even Wlad and Vitali knew this and knew it wasn't highly regarded by anyone in the boxing community, that's why they came to the U.S. - for the money and a shot at the more highly regarded belts. If they could do it, then why not Darius?!
The answer is simple - DM didn't want any part of Jones....

roy jones was a paper champ.

And DM had the Lineal, IBF, WBA, and WBO titles at light heavyweight and the WBO at cruiserweight. And he should have had the WBC at light heavyweight had the WBC not stolen the belt from Rocchiagini and given it to RJJ.


Roy Jones WON the WBC title against Mike McCallum before it was vacanted to reach the hands of Rocchiagini. The title was stripped long before Rocchiagini fought Michalczewski.

Michalczewski dropped the IBF belt when he did not want to face William Guthrie. Roy got this belt by beating Reggie Johnson (who won it against Guthrie).

Michalczewski was stripped of the WBA belt. Jones WON this WBA Light Heavyweight belt against Lou Del Valle, who got the vacant WBA Light Heavyweight Title by beating Fast Eddy Smulders.

i can't believe this as come up again. i guess its valid though. seems there are alot of mixed feelings. personally i think jones was just above average. none of jones pre-tarver, pre-johnson opponents kept the pressure coming when jones was pitter patting with amazing speed. they were just freaked out becaquse they had no clue the punches were coming til after the fact. tarver and jones made thier success not off of a shot out roy jones but off of pure aggression. i don't care how fast you are, you can't run from someone in the ring when they are coming at you the way johnson was. ok so maybe the tarver fight was a lucky shot. i do believe that the first ko had an effect on jones mentally. however i still hold my stance on the fact that i always said that if someone kept the pressure on jones he would go down. way before tarver ko'd him. i never understood why fighters would be so afraid of jones. if you wait on jones you are already beaten. if you don't give jones the chance to set up and slip and slide from your punches you have it made.

johnson was not the first guy to pressure on jones. bryant brannon put a hell of alot more pressure on him and he got ktfo in the second round, but that was prime roy jones. i take nothing away from tarver's victory but i think jones had already lost a step for the second tarver fight. johnson's face first style would have got him torn apart by a prime roy.

I hesitate to get involved with this debate becuase it's like talking about Wlad..deep emotion and bias on both sides.

Roy Jones was not a paper champ period imo. He fought many great fighters and alot of bums as well. All or most champs have there own version of "bum of the month club"

Roy Jones rarely got hit and rarely lost rounds in his "prime". To say his career is not great becuase he didn't fight DM is a bit far fetched. His skill is unquestioned. I would agree he hurt himself with self promotion and ego. The first thing to go in a fighter is reflexes and speed. Thats why Jones lost to Tarver and Johnson. He could no longer avoid shots. It's not becuase someone finally tried to push him. Everyone tried before, they just couldn't find him and Jones would pepper them with 5 shots before they could get inside.

Nobody was happier than me when Jones got nailed by Tarver. I personally think he is a pompous ass. That doesn't take away from the fact that he was an incredible fighter.

Absolutely not! He may have been overrated or overhyped, but he he was one of the better fighters of this era and had glorious moments in the ring.

But he should know when to hang his gloves and call it a day. He should think twice before doing a Holyfield! :cool:

johnson was not the first guy to pressure on jones. bryant brannon put a hell of alot more pressure on him and he got ktfo in the second round, but that was prime roy jones. i take nothing away from tarver's victory but i think jones had already lost a step for the second tarver fight. johnson's face first style would have got him torn apart by a prime roy.


ahh yes...but johnson was landing shots and was not stopping when jones threw shots. jones shots were not effecting johnson. did bryant brannon keep the punches coming without stopping when jones would flurry? did he land clean hard shots like johnson?

Jones made whipping Gonzales look like childsplay, but what happened when DM faced Gonzales? Gonzales defeated DM.

Jones defeated Hopkins and Toney, who are two of the best out there, Darius would have lost to both Hopkins and Toney.

Gonzalez beat Johnson, and Johnson defeated RJJ.

DM is a big name in Germany to be certain, and he is a fan favorite there - but everybody knows you have to KO a fighter just to get a draw in Germany if you are from the United States.

I offer an example: Gonzales fought Darius in Germany, and was winning the fight going away - it wasn't even close, still, the German judge had DM winning it 115-113 !! Thank goodness for the Canadian judge and the American judge scoring it 116-112 for Gonzales, which was the right score for the fight.

Darius refused to fight in the United States, and everyone knows if you want the money and the belts - you have to go where the Champion is which was Jones, the WBO belt which DM held is basically the "Eurobelt" and even Wlad and Vitali knew this and knew it wasn't highly regarded by anyone in the boxing community, that's why they came to the U.S. - for the money and a shot at the more highly regarded belts. If they could do it, then why not Darius?!
The answer is simple - DM didn't want any part of Jones....

And the fact that the IBF and WBA stripped soon after he beat Hill.

Roy Jones WON the WBC title against Mike McCallum before it was vacanted to reach the hands of Rocchiagini. The title was stripped long before Rocchiagini fought Michalczewski.

Michalczewski dropped the IBF belt when he did not want to face William Guthrie. Roy got this belt by beating Reggie Johnson (who won it against Guthrie).

Michalczewski was stripped of the WBA belt. Jones WON this WBA Light Heavyweight belt against Lou Del Valle, who got the vacant WBA Light Heavyweight Title by beating Fast Eddy Smulders.

Stripped? You mean stolen. Rocchigiani lost to DM in his next fight after beating Nunn for the WBC belt. The IBF ordered DM to fight Guthrie within 30 days of beating Hill. The WBA stripped DM because he had the WBO.

johnson was not the first guy to pressure on jones. bryant brannon put a hell of alot more pressure on him and he got ktfo in the second round, but that was prime roy jones. i take nothing away from tarver's victory but i think jones had already lost a step for the second tarver fight. johnson's face first style would have got him torn apart by a prime roy.

DM would have also pressured RJJ and he also has a lot better offensive weapons than Johnson has.

Stripped? You mean stolen. Rocchigiani lost to DM in his next fight after beating Nunn for the WBC belt. The IBF ordered DM to fight Guthrie within 30 days of beating Hill. The WBA stripped DM because he had the WBO.

They said Rocchigiani never won the belt and they were wrong in saying this, and they lost in court.

When Michalczewski fought Rocchigiani, Rocchigiani did not have the WBC title (lost it 10 moths before the fight). Michalczewski should have fought Jones for IF he wanted belt.

Jones had this belt(!!!!!), BEFORE it was thrown in between the feets NUNN and Rocchigiani by the WBC.

Of course Roy was a paper champ, you can argue he was the best light heavyweight, but the fact is DM was the real man at that weight. DM should have held everysingle title in light heavyweight division, here is why:

IBF: Beat Hill, but the IBF for some reason forced DM to defend it in 30 days. That is not just absurb but it is dangerous to take on two world class oppenents in such a short period of time.

WBA: Also won this from Hill, but the WBA just stripped it, no reason givin other than that the WBA and IBF don't get along.......real fair for the fighter caught in the middle.

WBC: Here is one you probably didn't know about, but it is the truth. In 1998 Graciano Rocchigiani fought Michael for what should have been the vacant WBC light heavyweight championship. At the last minute the WBC said it was for an interm title and Roy Jones was fighting for the real title. The case was taken to court and here was the result:

In June 1998 the WBC suddenly declared this bout (Rocchigiani/Nunn) an "interim" title fight. Rocchigiani sued and was awarded $31 million. In April 2003 a United States District Judge restored Rocchigiani’s WBC light heavyweight championship, but only through April 2000, when Rocchigiani lost to Dariusz Michalczewski.

I rest my case.

Roy Jones WON the major titles (WBC, IBF, WBA). That some people (or their management) are too clumsie to hold on the belts they won is not Jones fault.

Jones won all of the belts by beating the holder of the belt:
- WBC: Mike McCallum
- WBA: Lou Del Valle
- IBF: Reggie Johnson

(Nunn and Rocchigiani fought for jones' WBC belt, that was temperarely away from jones, and in this process Rocchigiani was seriously wronged by the WBC).

So jones is not a paper champ! NO WAY! :)

...but the WBA just stripped it, no reason givin other than that the WBA and IBF don't get along......

It was because of the WBO title.

They said Rocchigiani never won the belt and they were wrong in saying this, and they lost in court.

When Michalczewski fought Rocchigiani, Rocchigiani did not have the WBC title (lost it 10 moths before the fight). Michalczewski should have fought Jones for IF he wanted belt.

Jones had this belt(!!!!!), BEFORE it was thrown in between the feets NUNN and Rocchigiani by the WBC.

Shouldn't RJJ have had to fight for the belt by beating Rocchigiani? Like I've been saying it wasn't lost, it was stolen.

Here are the facts roy stole the wbc belts.
Therefore RJJ+Stolen belts=Paper champ

end of story

He would have killed DM and you know it.

Yeah he would have eaten him and his children. Roy was the man :cool:

Yeah he would have eaten him and his children. Roy was the man :cool:


DM had a great KO power, he wold probably end Roys career very early.

Roy knew this and avoided DM.

How do I know? Well, I do not.

DM had a great KO power, he wold probably end Roys career very early.

Roy knew this and avoided DM.

How do I know? Well, I do not.

I seriously do not believe that DM would have ended Roy in his prime. I have seen plenty of DM fights and don't think he could have done much against a prime Roy.

I seriously do not believe that DM would have ended Roy in his prime. I have seen plenty of DM fights and don't think he could have done much against a prime Roy.


I do not really know, but I will trust your judgement ... (on this one :D ).

I do not really know, but I will trust your judgement ... (on this one :D ).

Nautilus have you seen many fights of Roy in his prime?

Nautilus have you seen many fights of Roy in his prime?


No, just a couple against bums.


I would love to see RJJ vs Toney and RJJ vs Hopkins.

Look, Roy Jones Jr was a paper champ, that is obvious. You can argue he was the best in every division he fought in, but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't the man who beat the man. The minute you throw that principle out the window you surrender your will to the sanctioning bodies.

Back in 1988 Mike Tyson had all the heavyweight titles, but the true champ was obviously Michael Spinks, he beat Larry Holmes. If Jones had did what Tyson did we wouldn't even be having this debate.

All the belt crap is meaningless. More so now than ever. If someone wants to say DM is the "linear" champ, whatever. If someone is trying to say DM was a better fighter or deserves more reconition Jones, that is blatant bias.

I can't stand Roy Jones myself, but it is silly to try and compare him with DM. No comparison imo. Jones is by far the better fighter and will be remembered as such.

this whole thread reminds me of the good old Wlad threads. :D

All the belt crap is meaningless. More so now than ever. If someone wants to say DM is the "linear" champ, whatever. If someone is trying to say DM was a better fighter or deserves more reconition Jones, that is blatant bias.

I can't stand Roy Jones myself, but it is silly to try and compare him with DM. No comparison imo. Jones is by far the better fighter and will be remembered as such.

this whole thread reminds me of the good old Wlad threads. :D

Why? Because Wlad is a glass chinned fraud just like Roy Jones Jr.

No.

Roy Jones Jr was the greatest fighter of my generation.

Jones defeated Hopkins and Toney, who are two of the best out there, Darius would have lost to both Hopkins and Toney.

I have to agree with this opinion. Hopkins and Toney are great fighters and Jones made them look silly.

Belts aside, Jones is one of the most skilled fighters of our time. He had amazing lightning speed, and he had power to go with it. In his prime he could beat pretty much anyone b/c of his speed and ability to dodge a punch, and also b/c of his hand speed. He could throw combinations quicker than anyone. Someone mentioned something about walking Jones down and that's all they had to do to win the fight... that's easier said than done. And even if they did do that, which is what Toney was doing, he could come back with quick combinations and easily avoid punches.

So if you want to talk about belts all day and who was robbed and who should have had what.. go right ahead. But when we're talking about SKILL, theres no comparison and you can't deny Jones that regardless if he was a "paper champ" or not.

Why? Because Wlad is a glass chinned fraud just like Roy Jones Jr.

i'll give it to you..that was funny :D

Roy Jones has proven himself over many years. He was "exposed" at the age of 35 after 15 years of Boxing at a championship level. Wlad has proven nothing except that he has a very loyal fan base. ;)

i'll give it to you..that was funny :D

Roy Jones has proven himself over many years. He was "exposed" at the age of 35 after 15 years of Boxing at a championship level. Wlad has proven nothing except that he has a very loyal fan base. ;)

RJJ wasn't "exposed". So his chin isn't the best, but that doesn't make it glass. You can't suddenly take away thos 15 years of acomplishments cuz he got caught with a couple of well placed shots on the jaw and temple.

By the way, 15 years is a damn long time to keep a secret. Tells you something about the man's skills.

RJJ wasn't "exposed". So his chin isn't the best, but that doesn't make it glass. You can't suddenly take away thos 15 years of acomplishments cuz he got caught with a couple of well placed shots on the jaw and temple.

By the way, 15 years is a damn long time to keep a secret. Tells you something about the man's skills.

mooks

i think your arguing with the wrong guy. I was referring to someone else's description of Jones when usuing the term "exposed"...hence the quote marks.

Jones is a horses' ass, but I always give him his credit.

He was a great fighter.....such a shame no one came along in his prime to challenge him...

Shouldn't RJJ have had to fight for the belt by beating Rocchigiani? Like I've been saying it wasn't lost, it was stolen.


The Rocchigiani thing, was a thing between the WBC and Rocchigiani. In regard to the paper champ claim: It was Jones belt to begin with! (and no way you can count the wbc belt into DM collection, since Rocchigiani did not have the belt 10 months prior to the fight (the belt that Jones had before Rocchigiani, the one Jones did not loose in a fight, and was vacanted to come into the hands of Rocchigiani))

As I wrote before:

Roy Jones WON the major titles (WBC, IBF, WBA). That some people (or their management) are too clumsie to hold on the belts they won is NOT Jones fault!

Jones won all of the belts by beating the holder of the belt:
- WBC: Mike McCallum
- WBA: Lou Del Valle
- IBF: Reggie Johnson

(Nunn and Rocchigiani fought for jones' WBC belt, that was temperarely away from jones, and in this process Rocchigiani was seriously wronged by the WBC).

So jones is not a paper champ!

He beat Reggie Johnson, Telesco, Gonzalez and lastly John Ruiz. Jones WAS the best light heavy, however he no longer is obviously.

Roy Jones is a midget. God only knows how how all these titles. Just shows how weak some of his opponants were.

i'll give it to you..that was funny :D

Roy Jones has proven himself over many years. He was "exposed" at the age of 35 after 15 years of Boxing at a championship level. Wlad has proven nothing except that he has a very loyal fan base. ;)

Perhaps or maybe its because unlike Wlad, he is quick, he didn't fight the hardest hitters at LHW, SMW, and MW like Julian Jackson, Nigel Benn, Gerald McClellan, and Dariusz Michalczewski, and he only fought once at heavyweight.

The Rocchigiani thing, was a thing between the WBC and Rocchigiani. In regard to the paper champ claim: It was Jones belt to begin with! (and no way you can count the wbc belt into DM collection, since Rocchigiani did not have the belt 10 months prior to the fight (the belt that Jones had before Rocchigiani, the one Jones did not loose in a fight, and was vacanted to come into the hands of Rocchigiani))

As I wrote before:

Roy Jones WON the major titles (WBC, IBF, WBA). That some people (or their management) are too clumsie to hold on the belts they won is NOT Jones fault!

Jones won all of the belts by beating the holder of the belt:
- WBC: Mike McCallum
- WBA: Lou Del Valle
- IBF: Reggie Johnson

(Nunn and Rocchigiani fought for jones' WBC belt, that was temperarely away from jones, and in this process Rocchigiani was seriously wronged by the WBC).

So jones is not a paper champ!

Sorry but accepting stolen belts without fighting for them is something that a paper champ does.

He beat Reggie Johnson, Telesco, Gonzalez and lastly John Ruiz. Jones WAS the best light heavy, however he no longer is obviously.

I prefer WiDDoW MaKeR.

That is a different poster. I am the Original Widow, the WIDOWTAKER :D

Sorry but accepting stolen belts without fighting for them is something that a paper champ does.

He fought and won the belt against Mike McCallum :p

DM has something that everyone who fought RJJ at LHW didn't have, power. After beating Hill he was 14-0 with 14 KOs.

DM´s power is much overrated! He couldn´t send Gonzales, Hall, Hill to the canvas which Roy could, and many of his "KO" victories habe been premature stoppings with his opponents still on their feet. He was saved several times by the Refs or the judges and was hit in nearly every fight as much that it would´ve killed him if he had fought Jones.

Another point is: Tarver and Johnson beat Roy, who said that DM could beat him now? DM is shot (no matter if he can beat Grandpa Tiozzo :rolleyes: ), and I would still favor Jones to TKO him in a fight.

He fought and won the belt against Mike McCallum :p

Regardless he later stole the belt from Rocchigiani.

mooks

i think your arguing with the wrong guy. I was referring to someone else's description of Jones when usuing the term "exposed"...hence the quote marks.

Jones is a horses' ass, but I always give him his credit.

Ahh sorry bud, I was quick on the trigger :o . Just that so many haters out there that can't give credit where it's due.

how the hell can u whip out 3 divisons (middle super middle and lt heavy) and win belts in 4 divisons and be a paper champ...roy jones is by far the greatest middleweight and supermiddle of all time...top 5 at light heavyweight

DM´s power is much overrated! He couldn´t send Gonzales, Hall, Hill to the canvas which Roy could, and many of his "KO" victories habe been premature stoppings with his opponents still on their feet. He was saved several times by the Refs or the judges and was hit in nearly every fight as much that it would´ve killed him if he had fought Jones.

Another point is: Tarver and Johnson beat Roy, who said that DM could beat him now? DM is shot (no matter if he can beat Grandpa Tiozzo :rolleyes: ), and I would still favor Jones to TKO him in a fight.

RJJ had very little power at all LHW. There is no way he would TKO DM. What does him not being able to KD Gonzales (when he was shot), Hill, or Hall? He KO'd Harmon who RJJ couldn't KO. What were some premature stoppages and times when refs and judges saved him?

RJJ had very little power at all LHW.

To my mind, Jones just fought different at LHW than he did at SMW, most likely because he was the smaller guy in many cases. That doesn´t mean that he had no power. He still was one the hardest punchers of the devision and he could even impress Ruiz with his punches. DM had a good chin, but I think he would´ve been knocked out or stopped on cuts.




What were some premature stoppages and times when refs and judges saved him?

I guess you´re European, too, because most fans in the US haven´t seen many of his fights. I have seen them all, and he clearly lost against Girard, Rocchigiani (no BS discussions about drugs, please... :rolleyes: ), and in the second fight against Hall he looked much worse than Hall looked in the first, but Hall was taken out of the fight while DM wasn´t.

Premature stoppages have been in his fights with Griffin, Hall I & II, Thadzi, Ka-Dy King. That´s my opinion as a boxing fan. If you see it different, why not ;) .

To my mind, Jones just fought different at LHW than he did at SMW, most likely because he was the smaller guy in many cases. That doesn´t mean that he had no power. He still was one the hardest punchers of the devision and he could even impress Ruiz with his punches. DM had a good chin, but I think he would´ve been knocked out or stopped on cuts.






I guess you´re European, too, because most fans in the US haven´t seen many of his fights. I have seen them all, and he clearly lost against Girard, Rocchigiani (no BS discussions about drugs, please... :rolleyes: ), and in the second fight against Hall he looked much worse than Hall looked in the first, but Hall was taken out of the fight while DM wasn´t.

Premature stoppages have been in his fights with Griffin, Hall I & II, Thadzi, Ka-Dy King. That´s my opinion as a boxing fan. If you see it different, why not ;) .

RJJ had a KO % of 60% at LHW and DM had 80% and he has never been KD. I've seen most of his fights, and all of the ones you listed, and I'd have to disagree with you completely except for Hall v. DM I being prematurely stopped. How did he lose to Rocchigiani? Rocchigiani was DQ'd after it was ruled a technical draw for Roccigiani hitting DM on a break in their first fight, and DM simply dominated him in their rematch. Did you miss the memo on no standing 8 counts? If a guy is out on his feet, hardly defending himself, and not fighting back, its the refs job to stop the fight. Here is what Griffin's brother said about the DM fight, "He felt like he was treated unjustly in the Olympic Games and in the second Jones fight, where he was rushed into the ring before he could warm up. But there is no doubt that he lost tonight."

RJJ had a KO % of 60% at LHW and DM had 80% and he has never been KD. I've seen most of his fights, and all of the ones you listed, and I'd have to disagree with you completely except for Hall v. DM I being prematurely stopped.

Ok, you asked for my opnion, and I will answer, but don´t let us turn this into a groupie-/ hater-thing, cause I have no "emotional" attitude towards both of them.

As for the KO-percentage, we have to keep in mind, that Jones started at MW. After he became LHW-champ, he fought two mediocre opponents (Frazier, Kelly), the other opponents have been all decent challengers. DM spent his whole career at LHW and fought (like nearly every boxer...) 20 bums before he took on better opponents. Being a champion, he also fought 8-10 bums :rolleyes: . Yes, he is a hard hitter, but some of his challengers would´ve lost against Andre Ward in his pro debut ;) .

How did he lose to Rocchigiani? Rocchigiani was DQ'd after it was ruled a technical draw for Rocchigiani hitting DM on a break in their first fight, and DM simply dominated him in their rematch.

In the first fight Rocchigiani dominated DM who was just about getting KO´ed as he was hit after the break. Of course this was accidental, but DM couldn´t or didn´t want to continue (I favour the second thought...). Anyway, this happened in the 7th round, they went to the scorecards, realized that DM would´ve lost then and declared a DRAW :eek: . Why a draw??? Later Rocchigiani was DQ´ed for having ephedrin in his A-test. He protested and wanted the B-test to be analized, but it was lost... . Maybe that´s the reason why many fighters didn´t want to go to Germany. I don´t accuse DM but the men behind him.

The reamtch took place in 2000 and Rocchigiani hadn´t fought for 2,5 years.

That´s it for now. DM is ok, but he never tried to find out what´s his potential, and this really sucks.

Regardless he later stole the belt from Rocchigiani.

He never lost the belt in a fight (before Tarver). And HE did not steal it. But I said that a couple of times before

But go ahead try to talk something black into someting very very light grey (AKA white), but if I do not responding anymore is not because I agree with you. :p

(And maybe I will, somethimes I like the "yes-no game" with the my kids also) ;)

He never lost the belt in a fight (before Tarver). And HE did not steal it. But I said that a couple of times before

But go ahead try to talk something black into someting very very light grey (AKA white), but if I do not responding anymore is not because I agree with you. :p

(And maybe I will, somethimes I like the "yes-no game" with the my kids also) ;)

Roy didn't steal the belt, but in a manner of speaking the belt did fall off the truck and he picked it up. It was the WBC that made the mistake and costed them dearly. I think the whole situation was messed up because it was decided in court that Rocky was the WBC champion before being beaten by DM, but the title still remained with Roy Jones Jr.

He never lost the belt in a fight (before Tarver). And HE did not steal it. But I said that a couple of times before

But go ahead try to talk something black into someting very very light grey (AKA white), but if I do not responding anymore is not because I agree with you. :p

(And maybe I will, somethimes I like the "yes-no game" with the my kids also) ;)

He forfeited the belt to move up to heavyweight to fight Buster Douglas. Many people believe he did this so he wouldn't have to fight his mandatory Michael Nunn. He had Rocchigiani do his dirty work for him, and then he didn't fight Rocchigiani like he should have. RJJ didn't himself steal the belt, but he did accept a stolen belt that WBC stole from Rocchigiani and gave to him. Its not that difficult.

Ok, you asked for my opnion, and I will answer, but don´t let us turn this into a groupie-/ hater-thing, cause I have no "emotional" attitude towards both of them.

As for the KO-percentage, we have to keep in mind, that Jones started at MW. After he became LHW-champ, he fought two mediocre opponents (Frazier, Kelly), the other opponents have been all decent challengers. DM spent his whole career at LHW and fought (like nearly every boxer...) 20 bums before he took on better opponents. Being a champion, he also fought 8-10 bums :rolleyes: . Yes, he is a hard hitter, but some of his challengers would´ve lost against Andre Ward in his pro debut ;) .

So DM had a bum ratio of about 10% higher than RJJ at LHW and it would probably be advantage RJJ if you counted his defenses at MW and SMW. I'd say that's pretty good considering DM only fought in Europe.

Bpapa...you are clearly out of your f'n mind with your statements and lack of logic. It's almost humorous.....almost.

...RJJ didn't himself steal the belt....

Now we are getting somewhere! ;)

He forfeited the belt to move up to heavyweight to fight Buster Douglas. Many people believe he did this so he wouldn't have to fight his mandatory Michael Nunn.

As you know Roy Jones had been talking (and probably dreaming) about the heavy weight title for a long time. He was making the fight with Buster Douglas as a step up to de HW title until his father stood up and prevented Jones from fighting Douglas. Jones and his father (also former trainer) made peace in the process, ending a conflict that had been going on for years with them not speaking to each other.

So are the "many people" also thinking this father-and-son fight , that was staged years before, being a part of the complot for Roy super Jones not wanting to face the at this time of history the "very dangerous" Micheal second to (toney, little (ouch!)) Nunn?!
;) :D

Roy Jones was no paper champ, except at heavyweight. He beat Hopkins at middleweight, Toney at 168, and everybody not named Michaelczewski at 175. True, he fought more bums and cops at 175 than Mike Tyson, but he was the real champ at 175. Rumor has it that he saw a replay of Tyson-Douglas on ESPN Classic and immediately thought "**** this, I'm a millionaire" and bounced.