View Full Version : 90's - Early 00's Heavyweight Division - Greatest Wasters of All Time?


Cloud
11-20-2011, 05:27 PM
Sanders, Tua, Grant, Mercer and Ibeabuchi spring to mind straight away. Can others like Botha, Bentt, Rahman, Maskaev, Izon, Larry Donald count?

Out of all of them, and i like them all, Ibeabuchi, imo, is the most wasted talent. Ive seen all that i can see of Ike and who knows what he could have accomplished. I reckon a Lewis-Ibeabuchi fight would have been a war.

Grant seemed to fold under the pressure before he got in the ring for the Lewis fight. You can see how scared he was walking to the ring. Did HBO try so make him the new poster boy?

I'd love to hear what guys like Poet and JAB have to say.

The Surgeon
11-20-2011, 05:40 PM
To me Ike stands out in that list, he could have been special... He'd have chewed Wlad up and i think potentially beaten Lewis too

Obviously alot of speculation when ur dealing with guys like Ike (the bubble might well have bust in his next fight) but i go with what i saw and he was brilliant imo.

NChristo
11-20-2011, 05:42 PM
I'd think that title belongs to the 80s Heavyweight division more then the 90s and early 00's

Anthony342
11-20-2011, 05:44 PM
I liked Ike too. He and Tua are still two on my favorites list. Grant I used to like, but he fell off pretty fast after his first loss, was never quite the same after the Lewis KO loss.

GJC
11-21-2011, 12:13 AM
I'd think that title belongs to the 80s Heavyweight division more then the 90s and early 00's
I'd agree with that, the cocaine generation

Cloud
11-21-2011, 03:34 AM
I'd think that title belongs to the 80s Heavyweight division more then the 90s and early 00's

Thinking on, you could be right. I think i picked the 90's more because ive seen more Heavyweight fights from the 90's and know more Heavies from the 90's. Shame most 80's heavies were on coke...

Good posts so far. Thanks.

JAB5239
11-21-2011, 04:07 AM
Sanders, Tua, Grant, Mercer and Ibeabuchi spring to mind straight away. Can others like Botha, Bentt, Rahman, Maskaev, Izon, Larry Donald count?

Out of all of them, and i like them all, Ibeabuchi, imo, is the most wasted talent. Ive seen all that i can see of Ike and who knows what he could have accomplished. I reckon a Lewis-Ibeabuchi fight would have been a war.

Grant seemed to fold under the pressure before he got in the ring for the Lewis fight. You can see how scared he was walking to the ring. Did HBO try so make him the new poster boy?

I'd love to hear what guys like Poet and JAB have to say.

Ike had talent, but I think he is very overrated. I wouldn't argue him being one of the biggest wastes of talent, but I think Tua is right up there with him. Before he let his weight explode and fell in love with his power Tua had far fewer natural advantages yet looked like he was headed to stardom. It could even be argued he turned Ike into the mental midget he became in spite of losing a close fight. The biggest waste of talent though was Riddick Bowe. He had everything, all the tools, but he wouldn't train or diet. Eddie Futch became so disgusted by this he quit as his trainer.

Cloud
11-21-2011, 04:38 AM
Tua is the boxer that got me back into watching boxing. Its a shame he never became world champion.

I totally forgot about Bowe. Speaking of a guy that was wasted and fought Bowe....Andrew Golota.

I think he was a good fighter and could have held a portion of the heavyweight title but wtf....every big fight he had he just seemed to crumble mentally.

Its sad that all these guys were wasted because we ended up with, IMO, boring guys like Byrd and Ruiz in charge of the division for a while. Tua's demolition of Ruiz always leaves me smiling.

Sugarj
11-21-2011, 05:45 AM
The 80s and 90s were equally bad for wasted talents. Drugs, poor conditioning and inconsistent form were usually the blame. There really are too many to name. Many of them would give the ATGs a good fight when they were on form. Consider:

James Buster Douglas: The form he showed against McCall and Tyson was excellent.

Tony Tucker: An excellent amateur pedigree, the form he showed against Buster Douglas and Tyson was good.

Riddick Bowe: Had everything an ATG needed except the focus to stay on top.

Tim Witherspoon: Gave Holmes a good scare in something like his 18th fight. Far too inconsistent.

Ike Ibeabuchi: Could have been the next Sonny Liston. Seemed to have size, chin, power, workrate and even a fair bit of speed. I gather that in terms of punch rate, his fight with Tua was one of the highest output in heavyweight history. The Byrd win was excellent. He could have been the next great heavyweight.

David Tua: Weight issues seemed to be his problem. But he was certainly world class when on form. Great power, heart and chin!

James Bonecrusher Smith: Gave Holmes a very good fight, knocks out Witherspoon in a round.............and then timidly surrenders to Mike Tyson.

Michael Spinks: The Holmes fights demonstrate that Spinks was a damned good heavyweight. Nobody really seemed to win either fight, but by any standard to be on par with an 1985/86 Holmes over 15 rounds is impressive when you consider how good Holmes was even a decade later.


There were others, who on form were pretty good. Pinklon Thomas, John Tate, Mike Weaver (rapid handspeed), Gerry Cooney (shame his chin wasn't great), Ray Mercer, Herbie Hide.

JAB5239
11-21-2011, 01:50 PM
Tua is the boxer that got me back into watching boxing. Its a shame he never became world champion.

I totally forgot about Bowe. Speaking of a guy that was wasted and fought Bowe....Andrew Golota.

I think he was a good fighter and could have held a portion of the heavyweight title but wtf....every big fight he had he just seemed to crumble mentally.

Its sad that all these guys were wasted because we ended up with, IMO, boring guys like Byrd and Ruiz in charge of the division for a while. Tua's demolition of Ruiz always leaves me smiling.

Golota is a really good call but Im not sure he wasted his talent as much as he couldn't capitalize on it because of having a few screws loose. He seemed to do all the right things in preparation for his fights, once he got there though he would just have a meltdown. The guy was a certified enigma.

JAB5239
11-21-2011, 01:52 PM
The 80s and 90s were equally bad for wasted talents. Drugs, poor conditioning and inconsistent form were usually the blame. There really are too many to name. Many of them would give the ATGs a good fight when they were on form. Consider:

James Buster Douglas: The form he showed against McCall and Tyson was excellent.

Tony Tucker: An excellent amateur pedigree, the form he showed against Buster Douglas and Tyson was good.

Riddick Bowe: Had everything an ATG needed except the focus to stay on top.

Tim Witherspoon: Gave Holmes a good scare in something like his 18th fight. Far too inconsistent.

Ike Ibeabuchi: Could have been the next Sonny Liston. Seemed to have size, chin, power, workrate and even a fair bit of speed. I gather that in terms of punch rate, his fight with Tua was one of the highest output in heavyweight history. The Byrd win was excellent. He could have been the next great heavyweight.

David Tua: Weight issues seemed to be his problem. But he was certainly world class when on form. Great power, heart and chin!

James Bonecrusher Smith: Gave Holmes a very good fight, knocks out Witherspoon in a round.............and then timidly surrenders to Mike Tyson.

Michael Spinks: The Holmes fights demonstrate that Spinks was a damned good heavyweight. Nobody really seemed to win either fight, but by any standard to be on par with an 1985/86 Holmes over 15 rounds is impressive when you consider how good Holmes was even a decade later.


There were others, who on form were pretty good. Pinklon Thomas, John Tate, Mike Weaver (rapid handspeed), Gerry Cooney (shame his chin wasn't great), Ray Mercer, Herbie Hide.

God stuff, Sug! :fing02:

Sugarj
11-21-2011, 04:34 PM
God stuff, Sug! :fing02:

Cheers bud....

Cloud
11-22-2011, 08:52 AM
God stuff, Sug! :fing02:

I agree.

God...its so nice to have sensible people giving their views instead of the usual cluster**** of comments from arseholes and nuthuggers.

Money Shot
11-22-2011, 09:55 AM
I'd add Ray Mercer to the list. The guy was a natural talent with some real pop in his fists but he was never in shape after the Olympics when he knocked out every guy. Still a good career, but an in shape Mercer would have been better.

Sugarj
11-22-2011, 11:02 AM
I'd add Ray Mercer to the list. The guy was a natural talent with some real pop in his fists but he was never in shape after the Olympics when he knocked out every guy. Still a good career, but an in shape Mercer would have been better.


I actually mentioned Mercer at the foot of my list. Potentially a very very good heavyweight. His fight with Lennox Lewis showed what he was capable of. Fast hands, great chin, excellent amateur pedigree, good power.

La_Vibora
11-22-2011, 05:09 PM
Its like I have always said, the 90's had the potential to be just as good or even better than the 70's, but the problem is that most of the guys never fulfilled their potential nor did they all fight each other like the guys in the 70s did.

Sugarj
11-22-2011, 06:22 PM
Its like I have always said, the 90's had the potential to be just as good or even better than the 70's, but the problem is that most of the guys never fulfilled their potential nor did they all fight each other like the guys in the 70s did.


I quite agree. Something tells me that if you were to throw prime versions of Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis and 1990/91 Tyson into the 70s mix, they would more than likely hold their own.