I expect my list to be picked apart and argued over. That's cool, but post you own as well. Nothing is definitive and things are always changing the more we learn. I don't mind taking a little heat for my list. Do you? :boxing:

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. Larry Holmes
5. Sonny Liston
6. Lennox Lewis
7. George Foreman
8. Mike Tyson
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Rocky Marciano

11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills
13. Jack Dempsey
14. Jim Jeffries
15. Ezzard Charles
17. Sam Langford
18. Wladimir Klitschko
19. Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling

21. Ken Norton
22. Riddick Bowe
23. Max Baer
24. Jim Corbett
25. Gene Tunney

I couldnt make a top 25 list if I tried, its so complicated and I would be switching it around constantly.


Of course I have to nitpick, and I would put Ali above Louis based on his better opposition, and would not have Johnson nearly as high as he is...If you have Johnson as high as #3, then Harry Wills deserves to be at least in the top 10, since their best wins are pretty much the same guys.

I dont know a HUGE amount about Jeffries, but I wouldnt put him as high as he is, he didnt have the quality of wins other guys have and did not have longevity either.

also I would never omit Patterson from the top 25 all time.

nitpicking is so much fun.

I couldnt make a top 25 list if I tried, its so complicated and I would be switching it around constantly.


Of course I have to nitpick, and I would put Ali above Louis based on his better opposition, and would not have Johnson nearly as high as he is...If you have Johnson as high as #3, then Harry Wills deserves to be at least in the top 10, since their best wins are pretty much the same guys.

I dont know a HUGE amount about Jeffries, but I wouldnt put him as high as he is, he didnt have the quality of wins other guys have and did not have longevity either.

also I would never omit Patterson from the top 25 all time.

nitpicking is so much fun.

You son of a.....:lol1:

I got no problem with anyone rating Ali over Louis. Johnson I should actually have at #4 with Holmes ahead of him. I like Wills and think he's had a better career than most give him credit for, but he doesn't belong in the top 10.

Jeffries has an incredible resume considering the amoount of fights he has. Its his longevity that pushes him down the ladder.

I love Patterson. Love how he carried himself and love how he fought. But I never thought he was a GREAT heavyweight, though Im sure I could justify a way to get him on the top 20 or 25. It's just that D'Amato's ducking of top fighters like Liston, Williams, Machen and one or two others has never sat well with me. I think both Williams and Liston would have crushed him in 1958 and it would have dinged up his resume pretty good in my opinion. Keep nit picking brother, Im game. :fing02:

You son of a.....:lol1:

I got no problem with anyone rating Ali over Louis. Johnson I should actually have at #4 with Holmes ahead of him. I like Wills and think he's had a better career than most give him credit for, but he doesn't belong in the top 10.

Jeffries has an incredible resume considering the amoount of fights he has. Its his longevity that pushes him down the ladder.

I love Patterson. Love how he carried himself and love how he fought. But I never thought he was a GREAT heavyweight, though Im sure I could justify a way to get him on the top 20 or 25. It's just that D'Amato's ducking of top fighters like Liston, Williams, Machen and one or two others has never sat well with me. I think both Williams and Liston would have crushed him in 1958 and it would have dinged up his resume pretty good in my opinion. Keep nit picking brother, Im game. :fing02:Wills beat the same level of opposition that Johnson did, and even did it multiple times. He beat a true HW version of Langford, as opposed to the 150lb one Johnson fought. Johnson beat a teenage version of McVea, while Wills beat a much more seasoned McVea. I have no problem saying that Johnson beat the better Jeannette, even though when Johnson beat him he only had a few fights and a pretty lackluster record.

also Wills has underrated wins such Fred Fulton, Firpo and Weinhart. I consider those wins just about as good as anything Johnson did during his title reign, since he refused to fight the best opponents out there.

I think Johnson is not far removed from Wills in terms of greatness, if at all. I wouldnt put Johnson that high up because I dont think his opposition was all that, but even if I did, theres no way Id make him so far remove from Wills.

Even if Patterson did duck those opponents, he still has one of the best heavyweight resumes out there. Jacksonx2, Moore, Harris, London, Johanssonx2, Machen, Chuvalo, draw with Quarry, Bonavena...all good wins at the time. I just couldnt leave him out of the top 25.

Good ranking Jab. I would change a few around but I can understand why you had each of the fighters where they were. Ranking all time lists is so objectionable, 25 fans with good boxing knowledge could turn in 25 different top 25 rankings. The main similarity I believe in twenty five different rankings of the heavyweight division would be the top two.

I would rank Foreman higher and Tyson lower. Can't really see placing Tyson over Holyfield. Foreman I believe is top five minimum, maybe even top three.

There's no way in hell that Lennox Lewis is rated higher than George Foreman. Big George beat prime fighters while Lennox did not. George also goes above Sonny Liston as well imo as much as I love Sonny. Marciano is also rated far too low in my opinion. I have to think that Gene Tunney shoukd be a tad higher as well. Also, Wladimir Klitschko's lack of a career defining fight has me lost on where to place him, I feel more comfortable placing Vitali on this list than him. With that said,great job with the list, I couldn't bring myself to put together a list outside of the top 5, so I admire you for making up a top 25 list.

I expect my list to be picked apart and argued over. That's cool, but post you own as well. Nothing is definitive and things are always changing the more we learn. I don't mind taking a little heat for my list. Do you? :boxing:

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. Larry Holmes
5. Sonny Liston
6. Lennox Lewis
7. George Foreman
8. Mike Tyson
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Rocky Marciano

11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills
13. Jack Dempsey
14. Jim Jeffries
15. Ezzard Charles
17. Sam Langford
18. Wladimir Klitschko
19. Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling

21. Ken Norton
22. Riddick Bowe
23. Max Baer
24. Jim Corbett
25. Gene Tunney



My struggle is whether to rate based on legacy/legend and resume or based on how the head to head matchup would go if we are talking prime versions of the fighters.

For example in your list I'd favour Tunney over Corbett in terms of head to head/prime for prime.......Riddick Bowe would probably be top ten head to head/prime for prime.

And based on Legend/resume/legacy Floyd Patterson deserves to be ranked above Max Schmelling.

I think I'd have to do two lists, 1) head to head and 2) legacy.

But the head to head list causes real problems because.....for example I might pick Frazier over Holmes, but also I might pick Holmes over Foreman....however it would be wrong to therefore have Frazier above Foreman when we know what actually happened when they met.

LL above Holyfield?

The ATGs

01. Muhammad Ali
02. Joe Louis
03. Jack Johnson
04. Jack Dempsey
05. Larry Holmes
06. Sonny Liston
07. Evander Holyfield
08. George Foreman
09. Rocky Marciano
10. Mike Tyson
11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills


The Near-Greats

13. Lennox Lewis
14. Jersey Joe Walcott
15. James Jeffries
16. Peter Jackson
17. Joe Jeannette
18. Riddick Bowe
19. Vitali Klitschko
20. James Corbett
21. Floyd Patterson
22. Max Schmeling
23. George Godfrey
24. Ken Norton
25. Wlad Klitschko
26. Sam McVey

The ATGs

01. Muhammad Ali
02. Joe Louis
03. Jack Johnson
04. Jack Dempsey
05. Larry Holmes
06. Sonny Liston
07. Evander Holyfield
08. George Foreman
09. Rocky Marciano
10. Mike Tyson
11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills


The Near-Greats

13. Lennox Lewis
14. Jersey Joe Walcott
15. James Jeffries
16. Peter Jackson
17. Joe Jeannette
18. Riddick Bowe
19. Vitali Klitschko
20. James Corbett
21. Floyd Patterson
22. Max Schmeling
23. George Godfrey
24. Ken Norton
25. Wlad Klitschko
26. Sam McVey


No Ezzard Charles? Surely he belongs somewhere close to Jersey Joe Walcott.

Gene Tunney?

I'm not at all happy with this. Its based a little on legacy, a little on sentiment and a little on how impressed I am with their abilities on video. I've probably missed some legends accidentally!!!!

I've declined to show fighters I haven't actually watched fight much (if at all!)in their prime.............so very justifiable entries like Jeffries, Corbett, Wills, Langford or Sullivan remain absent.

1) Ali
2) Louis
3) Holmes
4) Foreman
5) Holyfield
6) Tyson
7) Lewis
8) Johnson
9) Liston
10) Marciano
11) Dempsey
12) Frazier
13) Bowe
14) Norton
15) Tunney
16) Walcott
17) Patterson
18) Charles
19) V Klitschko
20) W Klitschko
21) Young
22) Baer
23) Lyle
24) Schmelling
25) M Spinks



I expect to edit this post alot!

The very controversial entries are Young, Lyle and M. Spinks.....all of whom impressed me in certain contests or in losing efforts.

There is so much to pick at, Holyfield looks a bit high, but his heavyweight resume is so much better than Liston, Johnson or Marciano. Its tight between him, Lewis and Tyson.

Also Tunney's brief heavyweight reign shouldn't really have him in at 15, sentiment rules here.....plus he looked so damned good against an old Dempsey.

Norton looks too high too. It seems almost blasphemous to have him ahead of artists such as Walcott, Charles and Patterson. But the Ali, Young and Holmes fights really impressed me.

Both the Klitschkos belong higher, possibly much higher.....I feel I might have made a weak cop out here!!!

Lets just say a prime head to head list would look much different.

A list based solely on resume would also look much different.

No Ezzard Charles? Surely he belongs somewhere close to Jersey Joe Walcott.

Gene Tunney?

I only rank fighters in one weight class and I have both Charles and Tunney ranked at Light-Heavy.....Charles because he was at his best in that weight class and Tunney because he spent 99% of his career there.

Poet

The ATGs

01. Muhammad Ali
02. Joe Louis
03. Jack Johnson
04. Jack Dempsey
05. Larry Holmes
06. Sonny Liston
07. Evander Holyfield
08. George Foreman
09. Rocky Marciano
10. Mike Tyson
11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills


The Near-Greats

13. Lennox Lewis
14. Jersey Joe Walcott
15. James Jeffries
16. Peter Jackson
17. Joe Jeannette
18. Riddick Bowe
19. Vitali Klitschko
20. James Corbett
21. Floyd Patterson
22. Max Schmeling
23. George Godfrey
24. Ken Norton
25. Wlad Klitschko
26. Sam McVey

I love this list.

I only rank fighters in one weight class and I have both Charles and Tunney ranked at Light-Heavy.....Charles because he was at his best in that weight class and Tunney because he spent 99% of his career there.

Poet


I'm with you bud.

The ATGs

01. Muhammad Ali
02. Joe Louis
03. Jack Johnson
04. Jack Dempsey
05. Larry Holmes
06. Sonny Liston
07. Evander Holyfield
08. George Foreman
09. Rocky Marciano
10. Mike Tyson
11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills


The Near-Greats

13. Lennox Lewis
14. Jersey Joe Walcott
15. James Jeffries
16. Peter Jackson
17. Joe Jeannette
18. Riddick Bowe
19. Vitali Klitschko
20. James Corbett
21. Floyd Patterson
22. Max Schmeling
23. George Godfrey
24. Ken Norton
25. Wlad Klitschko
26. Sam McVey

Dempsey doesn't belong in the top 10 let alone top 5 in my opinion.

Good list by both Sugarj and Poet! Keep em coming guys!

The ridiculously overrated American HW champs from the past weren't even real world champs, they were all frauds because they never competed against the superior Soviets/Eastern Europeans in the pros.

All of the best American heavyweights have been destroyed by the Klitschkos and other Eastern Europeans.

The same thing is happening in many other weight classes too.


Teenage George Foreman taking on the best HW Soviet boxer in the world, Ionas Chepulis.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sCEtaaQ9ZPY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Teenage Joe Frazier taking on the best HW Soviet boxer in the world, Vadim Yemelyanov
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/btRNfmwa0G0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

1. Joe Louis ( I can live with this)
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. Larry Holmes
5. Sonny Liston
6. Lennox Lewis Lennox is way too low, He should be #3 at absolute worst. Hes the only guy who fought against Elite Americans as well as elite Eastern Blocers and beat them all. Last undisputed, true lineal champion.

7. George Foreman
8. Mike Tyson
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Rocky Marciano

11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills
13. Jack Dempsey
14. Jim Jeffries
15. Ezzard Charles
17. Sam Langford
18. Wladimir Klitschko
19. Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling

21. Ken Norton
22. Riddick Bowe
23. Max Baer
24. Jim Corbett
25. Gene Tunney


Ive posted my list many times. The Heavyweight champ should be the baddest man on the planet. A guy who could knock out anything with two legs regardless of discipline. Ali is not that type a guy, hes good but I just cant have a feather fister as the best Heavyweight ever. This is why I approve of you giving Joe Louis the nod, a man of power.

Heres mine:

1. Lennox Lewis
2. Max Schmelling
3. Joe Louis
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. George Foreman
6. John L Sullivan
7. Max Baer
8. Sonny Liston
9. Mike Tyson
10. Vitali Klitschko
11. Muhammad Ali
12. Harry Wills
13. Gene Tunney
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jack Dempsey
16. Riddick Bowe
17. Joe Frazier
18. Larry Holmes
19. Jack Johnson
20. Samuel Langford
21. Gentleman Jim Corbett
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Jim Jeffries
24. Oliver Mccall
25. Earnie Shavers

Good list Jab and Poet and Sugraj...I agree with JAB's #1 choice...don't with Poet and Sugraj, but all lists are very good. Because I believe it should be Ali or Louis at #1...rest of the picks are nice.

Though I will love to hear why Jab has Mike Tyson in top 10 ignoring Frazier and why Poet does have Tyson at top 10 also and not Lewis.

And I do think Liston should be #5 to 10..not top 5. So yea, its a bid of a grudge, not much.

But having done all this nitpicking, I declare , whatever you guys say, I wont go round to make a top 10 list forget top 25, because I don't rank anyone anymore.

But couldn't resist the nitpicking.

Heres mine:

1. Lennox Lewis
2. Max Schmelling
3. Joe Louis
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. George Foreman
6. John L Sullivan
7. Max Baer
8. Sonny Liston
9. Mike Tyson
10. Vitali Klitschko
11. Muhammad Ali
12. Harry Wills
13. Gene Tunney
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jack Dempsey
16. Riddick Bowe
17. Joe Frazier
18. Larry Holmes
19. Jack Johnson
20. Samuel Langford
21. Gentleman Jim Corbett
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Jim Jeffries
24. Oliver Mccall
25. Earnie Shavers

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p118/kdog3030/Laughing_Cat.jpg

I expect my list to be picked apart and argued over. That's cool, but post you own as well. Nothing is definitive and things are always changing the more we learn. I don't mind taking a little heat for my list. Do you? :boxing:

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. Larry Holmes
5. Sonny Liston
6. Lennox Lewis
7. George Foreman
8. Mike Tyson
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Rocky Marciano

11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills
13. Jack Dempsey
14. Jim Jeffries
15. Ezzard Charles
17. Sam Langford
18. Wladimir Klitschko
19. Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling

21. Ken Norton
22. Riddick Bowe
23. Max Baer
24. Jim Corbett
25. Gene Tunney

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Foreman
5. Johnson
6. Marciano
7. Dempsey
8. Liston
9. Frazier
10. Lewis
11. Holyfield
12. Tyson
13. Wills
14. Patterson
15. Jeffries
16. Vitali Klitschko
17. Jeanette
18. Baer
19. Walcott
20. McVey (probably should be higher if there were more footage)
21. Schmelling
22. Bivins (My opinion and I'm sticking to it)
23. Charles
24. Langford
25. Bowe

Michael Spinks would be next.

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Foreman
5. Johnson
6. Marciano
7. Dempsey
8. Liston
9. Frazier
10. Lewis
11. Holyfield
12. Tyson
13. Wills
14. Patterson
15. Jeffries
16. Vitali Klitschko
17. Jeanette
18. Baer
19. Walcott
20. McVey (probably should be higher if there were more footage)
21. Schmelling
22. Bivins (My opinion and I'm sticking to it)
23. Charles
24. Langford
25. Bowe

Michael Spinks would be next.

How much further down would Harold Johnson be in your list?

He beat 2 of your Top 25.

How much further down would Harold Johnson be in your list?

He beat 2 of your Top 25.

Doesn't rank at HW.

Bivins, Langford, Charles... all have more far more substantial heavyweight resumes than Johnson.

Ive posted my list many times. The Heavyweight champ should be the baddest man on the planet. A guy who could knock out anything with two legs regardless of discipline. Ali is not that type a guy, hes good but I just cant have a feather fister as the best Heavyweight ever. This is why I approve of you giving Joe Louis the nod, a man of power.

Heres mine:

1. Lennox Lewis
2. Max Schmelling
3. Joe Louis
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. George Foreman
6. John L Sullivan
7. Max Baer
8. Sonny Liston
9. Mike Tyson
10. Vitali Klitschko
11. Muhammad Ali
12. Harry Wills
13. Gene Tunney
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jack Dempsey
16. Riddick Bowe
17. Joe Frazier
18. Larry Holmes
19. Jack Johnson
20. Samuel Langford
21. Gentleman Jim Corbett
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Jim Jeffries
24. Oliver Mccall
25. Earnie Shavers
Interesting list!

How much further down would Harold Johnson be in your list?

He beat 2 of your Top 25.
He never stops! :) little bit under Archie I'd imagine Dan, as always ;)

He never stops! :) little bit under Archie I'd imagine Dan, as always ;)

:lol1: :lol1:

Hey man, he can't be that much lower at that point.

How much lower would you put him than Jimmy Bivins? Can't be that much lower.