View Full Version : Felix Savon or Teofilo Stevenson


NChristo
11-17-2011, 05:06 PM
Two great Cuban Heavyweight amateurs also both supporters of Castro and only wanted to fight for their country so they didn't attempt to go pro, they along with Hungarian Lazslo Papp are the only boxers to win 3 Olympic Gold medals.

Who does everyone think was the better / greater of these 2 ?.

Pastrano
11-17-2011, 05:29 PM
To me its Stevenson. Savon lost to a very young Chagaev, twice. He was still a really great boxer, no doubt but I thought Stevenson was just incredible in his heyday. Its a close call, but Teofilo gets it in my eyes.

New England
11-17-2011, 09:34 PM
both guys had ridiculous tenures

savon had me thinking young gazelle in there for a while (lots of talent, still a bit unsure how to use it,) but i quickly made a u-turn on that.

he was herky and jerky with a purpose. dude had weapons and knew how to utilize them.

i'll admit that i know a lot more about savon than stevenson, but both guys accomplishments hardly seem real.

stevenson and papp are regularly regarded as the best//most accomplished ever in the amateurs in my experience.


in terms of strengthening the talent pool in boxing communism blows

Pastrano
11-18-2011, 10:26 AM
both guys had ridiculous tenures

savon had me thinking young gazelle in there for a while (lots of talent, still a bit unsure how to use it,) but i quickly made a u-turn on that.

he was herky and jerky with a purpose. dude had weapons and knew how to utilize them.

i'll admit that i know a lot more about savon than stevenson, but both guys accomplishments hardly seem real.

stevenson and papp are regularly regarded as the best//most accomplished ever in the amateurs in my experience.


in terms of strengthening the talent pool in boxing communism blows

What does that mean??:thinking:

NChristo
11-18-2011, 11:37 AM
What does that mean??:thinking:

It means that communism has stopped some amazing athletes from going pro so it's a blow to professional boxings talent pool.
E.g Cuba, anyone that wants to turn pro first has to leave the country which would be difficult enough then spend the rest of the time avoiding capture.

Pastrano
11-18-2011, 12:50 PM
It means that communism has stopped some amazing athletes from going pro so it's a blow to professional boxings talent pool.
E.g Cuba, anyone that wants to turn pro first has to leave the country which would be difficult enough then spend the rest of the time avoiding capture.

Not ALL communist countries did that. Yugoslavia, my own country, allowed its boxers to turn pro and quite many have done that, some with great success. Mate Parlov, Slobodan Kacar, Marijan Benes are the best of that group. However, other promising amateurs like Anton Josipovich, the olympic lhw champion and Damir Skaro, who won several medals in world amateur championships, they never got so far or had very long pro careers. Josipovich got to beat a shot Matthew Saad Muhammad tho.

NChristo
11-18-2011, 01:18 PM
Not ALL communist countries did that. Yugoslavia, my own country, allowed its boxers to turn pro and quite many have done that, some with great success. Mate Parlov, Slobodan Kacar, Marijan Benes are the best of that group. However, other promising amateurs like Anton Josipovich, the olympic lhw champion and Damir Skaro, who won several medals in world amateur championships, they never got so far or had very long pro careers. Josipovich got to beat a shot Matthew Saad Muhammad tho.

Right, but it has still stopped a great number of athletes turning pro no getting around that, there's a number of countries that have banned Pro Boxing that aren't communist too e.g, I know Sweden only recently lifted the ban, Iceland and Norway as well these are also obviously a blow to the talent pool.

dchampishere
11-18-2011, 01:21 PM
It means that communism has stopped some amazing athletes from going pro so it's a blow to professional boxings talent pool.
E.g Cuba, anyone that wants to turn pro first has to leave the country which would be difficult enough then spend the rest of the time avoiding capture.
I know a little about this subject, i am related to Felix but in Cuba there is no comparison. Stevenson is a national treasure and Felix just won three golds. The analogy which best fits is Ali and Holmes, no matter how good you are its impossible to replace a legend. and p.s. once you defect you do not have to look over your shoulder because there is no one who is going to capture you. now i am a U.S. citizen

Pastrano
11-18-2011, 01:29 PM
Yeah, plus Teofilo is better looking than Felix, by a mile.:lol1:

NChristo
11-18-2011, 01:44 PM
I know a little about this subject, i am related to Felix but in Cuba there is no comparison. Stevenson is a national treasure and Felix just won three golds. The analogy which best fits is Ali and Holmes, no matter how good you are its impossible to replace a legend. and p.s. once you defect you do not have to look over your shoulder because there is no one who is going to capture you. now i am a U.S. citizen

I know Rigondeaux was caught and taken back, Napoles had Castro after him until he earned his place in Mexico, Gamboa's story is incredible, Luis Garcia, Mike Perez and Alexis Acosta have had problems with the Cuban Government as well after defecting over here, etc.

Savon seems to have the more names that made something of themselves as a professional on his amateur resume and won more World Amateur Championships, I don't know much about them personally other then they was the cream of the crop of Heavyweight amateur boxing at the time and both were great too watch.

New England
11-18-2011, 05:09 PM
What does that mean??:thinking:

i should have made the distinction between professional and amateur explicit

communism blows // blew or has blown for the talent pool in pro boxing


the process (and the outlawing of professional boxing) is great for amateur boxing.

nothing against commies, either


lol

dchampishere
11-18-2011, 06:42 PM
I know Rigondeaux was caught and taken back, Napoles had Castro after him until he earned his place in Mexico, Gamboa's story is incredible, Luis Garcia, Mike Perez and Alexis Acosta have had problems with the Cuban Government as well after defecting over here, etc.

Savon seems to have the more names that made something of themselves as a professional on his amateur resume and won more World Amateur Championships, I don't know much about them personally other then they was the cream of the crop of Heavyweight amateur boxing at the time and both were great too watch.
what is the true diference is the way they won Stevenson was smooth and dominated with his big right hand and yes he lost but when he won he looked much better doing it. felix was effective but it was not always pretty. Hell i remember Jorge luis Gonzalez was regarded better than Felix. when they expect you to win anyway style makes a huge diference in Cuba

frosty-g
11-18-2011, 10:00 PM
It means that communism has stopped some amazing athletes from going pro so it's a blow to professional boxings talent pool.
E.g Cuba, anyone that wants to turn pro first has to leave the country which would be difficult enough then spend the rest of the time avoiding capture.

you seem to not realise that it is the fact of the communist system that those countries had such good boxing programmes in the first place.

you'll find that as well as stevenson, savon etc. who stayed in cuba also boxers such as gamboa and rigondeaux who have left all credit the system for having made them what they are.
with no communism, the programme wouldn't exist.

savon wouldn't have even been a boxer as he was destined for a career as a runner until the cuban sports schools system decided he should give boxing a go.

it's a little paradoxical perhaps- they create the best but then they can't easily turn pro, but take away the system and cuba would have only ever been a little above average rather a real powerhouse.

NChristo
11-18-2011, 10:11 PM
you seem to not realise that it is the fact of the communist system that those countries had such good boxing programmes in the first place.

you'll find that as well as stevenson, savon etc. who stayed in cuba also boxers such as gamboa and rigondeaux who have left all credit the system for having made them what they are.
with no communism, the programme wouldn't exist.

savon wouldn't have even been a boxer as he was destined for a career as a runner until the cuban sports schools system decided he should give boxing a go.

it's a little paradoxical perhaps- they create the best but then they can't easily turn pro, but take away the system and cuba would have only ever been a little above average rather a real powerhouse.

Without the communist system they still created some of the greatest boxers ever and 3 of the most talented ever in Kid Chocolate, Kid Gavilan and Jose Napoles, that's not including Luis Rodriguez, Kid Tunero, Sugar Ramos, Jose Legra, Florentino Fernandez, Black Bill, Benny Paret all of them came before Castro took over and all of them had fantastic careers, Cuba was bound to make great boxers with or without the system as is evident.

crold1
11-19-2011, 11:10 AM
Without the communist system they still created some of the greatest boxers ever and 3 of the most talented ever in Kid Chocolate, Kid Gavilan and Jose Napoles, that's not including Luis Rodriguez, Kid Tunero, Sugar Ramos, Jose Legra, Florentino Fernandez, Black Bill, Benny Paret all of them came before Castro took over and all of them had fantastic careers, Cuba was bound to make great boxers with or without the system as is evident.

This. Cuban boxing was actually EONS better before communism.

frosty-g
11-19-2011, 01:39 PM
This. Cuban boxing was actually EONS better before communism.

that's utter rubbish.

frosty-g
11-19-2011, 02:24 PM
Without the communist system they still created some of the greatest boxers ever and 3 of the most talented ever in Kid Chocolate, Kid Gavilan and Jose Napoles, that's not including Luis Rodriguez, Kid Tunero, Sugar Ramos, Jose Legra, Florentino Fernandez, Black Bill, Benny Paret all of them came before Castro took over and all of them had fantastic careers, Cuba was bound to make great boxers with or without the system as is evident.

they certainly have always produced some great boxers, as they still do, but there was never as much depth of talent.
as one example just look at the 2008 olympic squad and those that defected just before which include rigondeaux, gamboa, lara, solis and a number of others. there's plenty of other examples that could be made, that's just a recent one. imagine if all the squad from the barcelona olympics had turned pro!

frosty-g
11-19-2011, 02:27 PM
U better watch out or else that ***head JAB is gonna delete your post. Like he did mine. Yea, thats right, you heard me you prik! Who put you in charge here, I truly wonder. Now ban me you loser. Thats all you got left. ****in idiotic capitalist pig. Spreading your hillbilly redneck bs propaganda around here.

ah well, whatever whatever. always makes me laugh how people talk about censorship in communist countries whereas capitalists are worse for it. and i've lived under both types of government so i'm speaking from my own experience.

Jim Jeffries
11-19-2011, 03:40 PM
you seem to not realise that it is the fact of the communist system that those countries had such good boxing programmes in the first place.

you'll find that as well as stevenson, savon etc. who stayed in cuba also boxers such as gamboa and rigondeaux who have left all credit the system for having made them what they are.
with no communism, the programme wouldn't exist.

savon wouldn't have even been a boxer as he was destined for a career as a runner until the cuban sports schools system decided he should give boxing a go.

it's a little paradoxical perhaps- they create the best but then they can't easily turn pro, but take away the system and cuba would have only ever been a little above average rather a real powerhouse.

Well that's absolutely wonderful. A guy that didn't have any desire to be a boxer, is forced to get his brains bashed in for nothing as an amateur. And then denied the luxury of turning pro, so that he can at least make some money for his efforts.

JAB5239
11-19-2011, 06:29 PM
U better watch out or else that ***head JAB is gonna delete your post. Like he did mine. Yea, thats right, you heard me you prik! Who put you in charge here, I truly wonder. Now ban me you loser. Thats all you got left. ****in idiotic capitalist pig. Spreading your hillbilly redneck bs propaganda around here.

Ask and you shall receive. Your next incarnation will be banned as well.