View Full Version : New Perspective on Arguello-Pacquiao


Miburo
11-15-2011, 01:21 AM
After Pac-JMM III, I'm now convinced that Arguello would stop or (perhaps in a 12 rounder) clearly decision any version of Pacquiao. Same patience as Marquez but even better timing and more power.

Steak
11-15-2011, 05:57 PM
I dont see how this most recent fight changed your mind if the other two didnt.

Miburo
11-15-2011, 10:58 PM
I dont see how this most recent fight changed your mind if the other two didnt.

Quite simple. Pacquiao improved quite a bit between those fights and this one. Those improvements however would not help him against counterpunchers in the style of Marquez and Arguello. Marquez also demonstrated that discipline/reduced aggression is absolutely the key, and the factor he had been lacking.

Steak
11-15-2011, 11:05 PM
Quite simple. Pacquiao improved quite a bit between those fights and this one. Those improvements however would not help him against counterpunchers in the style of Marquez and Arguello. Marquez also demonstrated that discipline/reduced aggression is absolutely the key, and the factor he had been lacking.
I never thought there was that much 'improvement' inbetween Marquez II and III at all, personally. he always fought the same to me.

and Marquez was initially a more disciplined, less aggressive counter puncher around the first Pacquiao fight. His lack of urgency to attack is what in part made him not as well known to Mexican fans.

Miburo
11-15-2011, 11:21 PM
I never thought there was that much 'improvement' inbetween Marquez II and III at all, personally. he always fought the same to me.

and Marquez was initially a more disciplined, less aggressive counter puncher around the first Pacquiao fight. His lack of urgency to attack is what in part made him not as well known to Mexican fans.

I don't think either fighter had a true gameplan for their first fight, or at least were able to execute it well. Marquez sort of figured out what he could and then improvised with his back fully against the wall. Also I don't think Pacquiao has always fought the same way, there were especially some pretty drastic changes in him by around the time of the second Morales fight. Even today I don't find Marquez-Pacquiao I to have much bearing on anything beyond that night. Between Marquez II and tonight I think his accuracy and footwork both improved substantially. What he still lacks, however, is the ability to handle a fighter who refuses to engage him directly. If he's made to lead, he regresses to his early career form.

BigStereotype
11-16-2011, 02:02 AM
I think Arguello would strafe Pacquio with right hands. Whether or not he KO's him is debatable - Pac's got a good chin. I don't think Arguello would nullify the left hand quite as thoroughly as Marquez did, but it would result in a more entertaining back and forth kind of war. Arguello, just by virtue of his superior technical skill.

IronDanHamza
11-16-2011, 08:41 AM
I've never thought Pacquaio could beat Arguello.

He's not stopping him and I can't see how he would beat him by Decision.

I guess you could argue that Arguello had problems with southpaws from time to time and speed but his ability to time and counter Pacquaio and dictate the pace would outweigh those weaknesses drastically.

Arguello would put a beating on him.

IronDanHamza
11-16-2011, 08:42 AM
I never thought there was that much 'improvement' inbetween Marquez II and III at all, personally. he always fought the same to me.

and Marquez was initially a more disciplined, less aggressive counter puncher around the first Pacquiao fight. His lack of urgency to attack is what in part made him not as well known to Mexican fans.

I absolutely agree there.

Pastrano
11-16-2011, 01:35 PM
El Flaco Explosivo MURDERS Pacman. Can't see little man lasting more than 6, maybe 7 rounds with Alexis. His speed would enable him to keep from harm for 4-5 rounds, but then he'd get blown out.

Forza
11-16-2011, 02:59 PM
Arguello straight right hand = dead poochiao

GoogleMe
11-16-2011, 03:39 PM
Easy now, at WW Pacquiao would beat Arguello.

GoogleMe
11-16-2011, 03:39 PM
And just because one counterpuncher can beat Pacquiao or get a draw, doesn't mean another one can.

IronDanHamza
11-16-2011, 05:06 PM
Easy now, at WW Pacquiao would beat Arguello.

Well, of course at Welterweight he would beat him.

Arguello didn't even fight at Welterweight.

But at 126, 130 and 135 Arguello would beat him.

Pacquaio might win at 140 considering Arguello was pretty faded and out of his element that high in weight.

Pastrano
11-16-2011, 05:52 PM
Easy now, at WW Pacquiao would beat Arguello.

:rofl: So youre saying a non-natural ww would beat a natural ww, is that correct? The guy who fought most of his career below 135 beats a guy who held a belt at 135 and fought Pryor and many others at 140 and also a few at 147?

jabsRstiff
11-17-2011, 11:05 AM
I'm assuming were talking at 130-135?

If so, would anyone have picked the '07-'08 Pacquiao to have beaten Arguello at those weights? I know I wouldn't have. Beating guys like Margarito and Cotto at 147-154 doesn't change the fact that when he fought at 130-135, Pacquiao was totally beatable....and definitely was so by one of the best ever from those divisions.

BigStereotype
11-17-2011, 12:48 PM
:rofl: So youre saying a non-natural ww would beat a natural ww, is that correct? The guy who fought most of his career below 135 beats a guy who held a belt at 135 and fought Pryor and many others at 140 and also a few at 147?

Arguello is a natural welterweight? News to me...

mercado64
11-17-2011, 08:48 PM
Pacquiao vs. Arguello a very good fight but i favor Pacquiao because of his stamina and activity.

mercado64
11-17-2011, 08:49 PM
Good Point!

mercado64
11-17-2011, 08:50 PM
Alot of people are slamming Pacquiao at the moment but i don't think we can compare Marquez and Mayweather, Marquez counters on your Offence... while Mayweather counters on your Defense... I think Manny gives Mayweather fits early but Maywather takes over

Scott9945
11-17-2011, 09:50 PM
Arguello is a natural welterweight? News to me...

Somebody obviously didn't check boxrec before posting that. Anyone who saw Arguello fight would already know better. :pat:

I'd be pretty confident comparing Pacquaio's record at 147 with Arguello's. :lol1:

Miburo
11-19-2011, 02:57 PM
I'm not sure why size/weight is even being brought up in this case, Arguello was perfectly fine at 140 and Pacquiao is basically a junior welterweight refusing to cut. If anything, Arguello is the larger man.

Arguello's counters were much sharper and better timed than any Marquez uses. Marquez often throws looping shots from unorthodox angles that leave him off-balance. By the mid-to-late rounds Arguello would have Pacquiao's left timed and start connecting at the exact moment Pacquiao starts to throw it, turning his momentum against him, which is far more damaging.