View Full Version : Duane Bobick thread


Pastrano
11-12-2011, 08:05 PM
Lets talk about this great white hope. He had a stellar amateur career and I wasn't aware that he was in fact the first guy to beat Teofilo Stevenson, yet he also lost to him in the olympics. He also beat Larry Holmes as amateur, which is pretty well known. Bobick had some punch, 42 kos in 48 wins! But he was kinda strangely proportioned, had a rather strong body but his legs looked suspiciously skinny.:D Made him look funny on pics, in his boxer stance. Shame about that Norton fight, but he got punched in the adam's apple and shouldn't that be illegal? Very unlucky. He also got wasted by otherwise rather unremarkable puncher Kallie Knoetze. His best win is over Mike Weaver, who also his brother beat. He also beat Scott Le Doux (once by ko and once by dec), Chuck Wepner (one of the few to stop Wepner, and in 6 rounds) and Bunny Johnson.

Rodney Bobick btw also looked promising. Sadly his career got tragically cut short by a car accident. Back to Duane, he is of Polish and German origin. He won a gold in the Pan Am games in 1971 btw, when he beat Stevenson. One of those boxers who had a promising amateur career but kinda fell short as pro. Duane himself nearly got killed in a machine accident after taking a job in heavy industry after his boxing career ended, it was in 1997. He now does coaching, doing volunteer work for schools and churches and working as a city councilman in his hometown.

Scott9945
11-13-2011, 10:29 PM
Bobick was overrated and overhyped at the time in an effort to have him replace a fast fading Ali. Duane could fight a little, but he just didn't react well to getting hit. I'll never forget how NBC devoted a two hour time slot to his elimination fight with Ken Norton. I don't even think that they even had a supporting bout, and the fight was over in a minute. Bobick never seemed to recover from that loss.

young_robbed
11-13-2011, 10:45 PM
Bobick was terrible. He did beat Wepner though.

jabsRstiff
11-14-2011, 07:12 AM
I do not believe there's anything in the books about the legality of a punch to the Adam's Apple.

If you get hit there, that's your fault, and I'm not so sure Bobick even was hit there or if it was a desperate excuse from a guy who had just been humiliated.

Pastrano
11-14-2011, 07:48 AM
I do not believe there's anything in the books about the legality of a punch to the Adam's Apple.

If you get hit there, that's your fault, and I'm not so sure Bobick even was hit there or if it was a desperate excuse from a guy who had just been humiliated.

He was def hit in the throat, specifically said to be the apple.

joseph5620
11-14-2011, 12:55 PM
He was def hit in the throat, specifically said to be the apple.

Doesn't make any difference. He didn't get knocked out from that. The punch that got him in major trouble was to the head. Not the Adams apple.

Pastrano
11-14-2011, 02:44 PM
Doesn't make any difference. He didn't get knocked out from that. The punch that got him in major trouble was to the head. Not the Adams apple.

But that punch stunned him and made it easier for Norton to get him out with the other punch.

jabsRstiff
11-14-2011, 03:10 PM
No fighter can aim for and hit another fighter's Adam's Apple.....it's a fluke thing.

Norton threw a punch and it landed in between Bobick's chin and the bottom of his neck. Oh well, he should have protected it better.

Greatest1942
11-15-2011, 06:35 PM
In the book Only the Ring Was Square it was claimed that Ali actually ducked Bobick who was 36-0 or something at that point.

Too bad Bobick never lived upto the hype.

Pastrano
11-15-2011, 06:55 PM
In the book Only the Ring Was Square it was claimed that Ali actually ducked Bobick who was 36-0 or something at that point.

Too bad Bobick never lived upto the hype.

Perhaps he knew Bobick had beaten Teofilo Stevenson, who he dreaded. And he gave Stevenson a brave fight before being stopped in the rematch.

joseph5620
11-15-2011, 07:02 PM
Perhaps he knew Bobick had beaten Teofilo Stevenson, who he dreaded. And he gave Stevenson a brave fight before being stopped in the rematch.





Bobick was also knocked unconscious for minutes by Ron Lyle in the amateurs. Stop trying to make Bobick into something he wasn't. There was nothing about him that Ali needed to fear. Nothing.



And you making claims that Ali was afraid of what a fighter did in a three round amateur fight is pathetic.

Pastrano
11-15-2011, 08:20 PM
Bobick was also knocked unconscious for minutes by Ron Lyle in the amateurs. Stop trying to make Bobick into something he wasn't. There was nothing about him that Ali needed to fear. Nothing.



And you making claims that Ali was afraid of what a fighter did in a three round amateur fight is pathetic.

You can't turn Bobick's amateur achievements into nothing, you can't deny them. The fact is, he beat LARRY HOLMES and TEOFILO STEVENSON, that he got iced by one of the biggest punchers of all times means zero.

JAB5239
11-15-2011, 08:37 PM
Perhaps he knew Bobick had beaten Teofilo Stevenson, who he dreaded. And he gave Stevenson a brave fight before being stopped in the rematch.

Why would Ali dread Stevenson? He was a 3 round amateur who never faced a polished and experienced pro, let allone a heavyweight world champion.

Pete Radamacher was a heavyweight gold medalist, look what happened to him when he was fed to a world champion and top contender while having no profession experience.

JAB5239
11-15-2011, 08:41 PM
You can't turn Bobick's amateur achievements into nothing, you can't deny them. The fact is, he beat LARRY HOLMES and TEOFILO STEVENSON, that he got iced by one of the biggest punchers of all times means zero.

Differencce is that amateur successs does't always translate into professional succcess. Bobick, Radamacher, Biggs and many others are proof of this.

NChristo
11-15-2011, 08:51 PM
Differencce is that amateur successs does't always translate into professional succcess. Bobick, Radamacher, Biggs and many others are proof of this.

The one that always had me was Vince Shomo, his amateur credentials are phenomenal, outstanding, just ridiculous but as soon as he went pro he was losing to people who shouldn't have been fit to hold his spit bucket. Courage Tshabalala as well, lost his 1st amateur bout then won his next 72 bouts all by 1st round KO, whatever they had figured out in the amateurs sure didn't work in the pro.

Edit: Just double checked Courage's pro record, turned out he did better then I thought, still got nowhere though.

joseph5620
11-15-2011, 09:23 PM
You can't turn Bobick's amateur achievements into nothing, you can't deny them. The fact is, he beat LARRY HOLMES and TEOFILO STEVENSON, that he got iced by one of the biggest punchers of all times means zero.

What he did in the amateurs doesn't mean a damn thing in the pros. Bobick didn't even win a Gold medal. Kent Green stopped Ali in the amateurs. You probably don't even know who he is. Randy Shields beat Leonard in the amateurs. How did that work out for him in the pro's? And Stevenson never had one pro fight. There is a big difference between bigger gloves, head gear, three rounds, and a championship fight in the pro's. But you can go ahead and play stupid if you want to.




Ali managed to fight Liston twice, Norton three times, Frazier three times, Foreman, Lyle, Quarry twice, but he "ducks" Bobick. That's just stupidity and there is no other way to put it.

joseph5620
11-15-2011, 09:26 PM
Differencce is that amateur successs does't always translate into professional succcess. Bobick, Radamacher, Biggs and many others are proof of this.

Exactly. Howard Davis is one of the best amateur fighters of all time. But he never won a world title.

Scott9945
11-15-2011, 09:29 PM
In the book Only the Ring Was Square it was claimed that Ali actually ducked Bobick who was 36-0 or something at that point.

Too bad Bobick never lived upto the hype.

If Bobick beat Norton, the Ali fight was all but made. It would have been by far the biggest payday for Ali at that time.

Pastrano
11-16-2011, 11:39 AM
Why would Ali dread Stevenson? He was a 3 round amateur who never faced a polished and experienced pro, let allone a heavyweight world champion.

Pete Radamacher was a heavyweight gold medalist, look what happened to him when he was fed to a world champion and top contender while having no profession experience.

Because Stevenson was both bigger, stronger and at least as talented as Ali, if not more. He could throw great combinations or blow you out with single punches. Ali couldn't do the latter.

Dubblechin
11-16-2011, 11:49 AM
If Bobick beat Norton, the Ali fight was all but made. It would have been by far the biggest payday for Ali at that time.

Exactly. Bobick had the size and the strength and the backing (with Frazier as his promoter) to make it big at heavyweight. When he entered the top 10, Frazier was gone, Quarry was gone, Foreman was retiring, Ali was falling off badly. If Bobick had defeated Ken Norton, he had a clear shot. In 1977 and 1978, Ali was very vulnerable. He looked awful against Evangelista. Shavers hammered him. Spinks (with a 6-0-1 record) beat him. Bobick did have a real shot had he gotten Ali at that time.

The problem was Bobick seemed to regress after turning pro. He didn't take training seriously. If you look at him as an amateur, against the likes of Holmes and Stevenson, he is fit and dangerous. Four years later, against a journeyman like Young Sanford, Bobick looks soft and unsculpted. He has no muscle tone at all. I heard he was a drinker. That probably had a lot to do with it.

Bobick also couldn't slip punches. He never worked on his defense. Norton showed that he was a sucker for an overhand right. I remember before Bobick fought John Tate, ABC did a big profile on how Bobick was finally committed to training and he was fit and strong again. Totally committed. But Tate just started launching overhand rights, and Bobick was stopped in one round again.

Bobick's fall had a lot to do with his lack of commitment as a pro, his failure to work on his defense, his failure to take training seriously. Because he had the raw talent to win. When he and Holmes turned pro, Bobick was miles ahead of Holmes. By the late 70s, Holmes had developed his skills to the point he could go 15 with Norton, and Bobick couldn't last one minute with him. Bobick only has himself to blame.

Pastrano
11-16-2011, 12:30 PM
Exactly. Bobick had the size and the strength and the backing (with Frazier as his promoter) to make it big at heavyweight. When he entered the top 10, Frazier was gone, Quarry was gone, Foreman was retiring, Ali was falling off badly. If Bobick had defeated Ken Norton, he had a clear shot. In 1977 and 1978, Ali was very vulnerable. He looked awful against Evangelista. Shavers hammered him. Spinks (with a 6-0-1 record) beat him. Bobick did have a real shot had he gotten Ali at that time.

The problem was Bobick seemed to regress after turning pro. He didn't take training seriously. If you look at him as an amateur, against the likes of Holmes and Stevenson, he is fit and dangerous. Four years later, against a journeyman like Young Sanford, Bobick looks soft and unsculpted. He has no muscle tone at all. I heard he was a drinker. That probably had a lot to do with it.

Bobick also couldn't slip punches. He never worked on his defense. Norton showed that he was a sucker for an overhand right. I remember before Bobick fought John Tate, ABC did a big profile on how Bobick was finally committed to training and he was fit and strong again. Totally committed. But Tate just started launching overhand rights, and Bobick was stopped in one round again.

Bobick's fall had a lot to do with his lack of commitment as a pro, his failure to work on his defense, his failure to take training seriously. Because he had the raw talent to win. When he and Holmes turned pro, Bobick was miles ahead of Holmes. By the late 70s, Holmes had developed his skills to the point he could go 15 with Norton, and Bobick couldn't last one minute with him. Bobick only has himself to blame.
Its true, Bobick looked more muscular against Stevenson in the olympics than when he turned pro. As I said, he looked quite skinny for a hw. I think also the death of his brother shook him up and made him lose focus somewhat. I'm glad we talked about this, Duane is somewhat overlooked as a subject today.

Scott9945
11-16-2011, 12:59 PM
Because Stevenson was both bigger, stronger and at least as talented as Ali, if not more. He could throw great combinations or blow you out with single punches. Ali couldn't do the latter.

Stevenson was an amateur who never went past three rounds. And you're comparing him to Muhammad Ali?

joseph5620
11-16-2011, 01:09 PM
Stevenson was an amateur who never went past three rounds. And you're comparing him to Muhammad Ali?


I can't take anything he says seriously. His opinions are worst than SCtrojans. And that's saying something.

joseph5620
11-16-2011, 01:19 PM
Exactly. Bobick had the size and the strength and the backing (with Frazier as his promoter) to make it big at heavyweight. When he entered the top 10, Frazier was gone, Quarry was gone, Foreman was retiring, Ali was falling off badly. If Bobick had defeated Ken Norton, he had a clear shot. In 1977 and 1978, Ali was very vulnerable. He looked awful against Evangelista. Shavers hammered him. Spinks (with a 6-0-1 record) beat him. Bobick did have a real shot had he gotten Ali at that time.

The problem was Bobick seemed to regress after turning pro. He didn't take training seriously. If you look at him as an amateur, against the likes of Holmes and Stevenson, he is fit and dangerous. Four years later, against a journeyman like Young Sanford, Bobick looks soft and unsculpted. He has no muscle tone at all. I heard he was a drinker. That probably had a lot to do with it.

Bobick also couldn't slip punches. He never worked on his defense. Norton showed that he was a sucker for an overhand right. I remember before Bobick fought John Tate, ABC did a big profile on how Bobick was finally committed to training and he was fit and strong again. Totally committed. But Tate just started launching overhand rights, and Bobick was stopped in one round again.
Bobick's fall had a lot to do with his lack of commitment as a pro, his failure to work on his defense, his failure to take training seriously. Because he had the raw talent to win. When he and Holmes turned pro, Bobick was miles ahead of Holmes. By the late 70s, Holmes had developed his skills to the point he could go 15 with Norton, and Bobick couldn't last one minute with him. Bobick only has himself to blame.




That's because you can't fix a chin. Either you can take a punch or you can't. If you can't get past that problem you're not going to make it to the highest level when fighters like Tate are blasting you out in a round. It's not like Tate was a huge puncher either. Bobick responded poorly to getting hit. And I think he had that problem in the amateurs as well. When you get laid out for minutes with headgear that's not a good sign for the pro's. Jeremy Williams had the same problem.

JAB5239
11-16-2011, 01:23 PM
Because Stevenson was both bigger, stronger and at least as talented as Ali, if not more. He could throw great combinations or blow you out with single punches. Ali couldn't do the latter.

When did he ever show he could do any of these things against a top professsional?

Pastrano
11-16-2011, 02:53 PM
When did he ever show he could do any of these things against a top professsional?

Ahem, he beat guys like Biggs, Dokes, Tate and Bobick. Two of them were champions and the other two were top ranked contenders. What other proof do you want? Stevenson destroyed them all. I think youre just envious because Teofilo is Cuban and many experts said he could beat Ali. Even Foreman said he would def be world champion if he turned pro. And so did Cosell.

joseph5620
11-16-2011, 04:37 PM
Ahem, he beat guys like Biggs, Dokes, Tate and Bobick. Two of them were champions and the other two were top ranked contenders. What other proof do you want? Stevenson destroyed them all. I think youre just envious because Teofilo is Cuban and many experts said he could beat Ali. Even Foreman said he would def be world champion if he turned pro. And so did Cosell.

Using amateur fights as a measuring stick for greatness in professional boxing speaks volumes about your mentality.


I'm sure if Cuban Heavyweight Jorge Luis Gonzalez never turned pro you would tell us the same thing how he would have beaten Bowe,Lewis, Holyfield, Ali....






Jorge Luis Gonzalez:


González compiled an Amateur Record of 220-13. His highlights include:

Super Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the 1983 Pan-American Games in Caracas, Venezuela
Super Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the 1987 Pan-American Games in Indianapolis, United States. Results included:
Defeated Riddick Bowe (United States) on points
Defeated Lennox Lewis (Canada) on points
Lost to Lennox Lewis at the 1987 North American Championships in Toronto, Canada, by decision.
After an outstanding amateur career in Cuba, where he defeated the likes of Teofilo Stevenson, Tyrell Biggs, and Craig Payne, he defected during a Cuban Team event in Finland, in 1991.




Just another example of how silly your argument is. An amateur career does not prove what a fighter will do in the pro ranks. No matter how much that goes over your head.



And who are these so called " many experts" that said Stevenson could have beaten Ali? Names please.

Pastrano
11-16-2011, 04:48 PM
Using amateur fights as a measuring stick for greatness in professional boxing speaks volumes about your mentality.


I'm sure if Cuban Heavyweight Jorge Luis Gonzalez never turned pro you would tell us the same thing how he would have beaten Bowe,Lewis, Holyfield, Ali....






Jorge Luis Gonzalez:


González compiled an Amateur Record of 220-13. His highlights include:

Super Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the 1983 Pan-American Games in Caracas, Venezuela
Super Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the 1987 Pan-American Games in Indianapolis, United States. Results included:
Defeated Riddick Bowe (United States) on points
Defeated Lennox Lewis (Canada) on points
Lost to Lennox Lewis at the 1987 North American Championships in Toronto, Canada, by decision.
After an outstanding amateur career in Cuba, where he defeated the likes of Teofilo Stevenson, Tyrell Biggs, and Craig Payne, he defected during a Cuban Team event in Finland, in 1991.




Just another example of how silly your argument is. An amateur career does not prove what a fighter will do in the pro ranks. No matter how much that goes over your head.



And who are these so called " many experts" that said Stevenson could have beaten Ali? Names please.

You want names from like 40 years ago?? Seriously, are you deranged?:nonono::smashfrea Not my fault your precious American boxers aren't as invincible when they fight outside US than inside it, don't let your frustration out on me.:rolleyes: What makes YOU think Stevenson wouldn't do as well as a pro? He sure as hell was no gigantic stiff like Gonzalez, that sob. Gonzalez didn't listen to his American trainers anyway, maybe he'd do better if he had listened to them. And the two can't be compared, Gonzalez won only 2 gold medals, Stevenson won 3 olympic and 3 world championship medals! Plus 2 Pan Am ones. Plus Teofilo was certainly past prime when that lumbering idiot beat him.

joseph5620
11-16-2011, 05:04 PM
You want names from like 40 years ago?? Seriously, are you deranged?:nonono::smashfrea Not my fault your precious American boxers aren't as invincible when they fight outside US than inside it, don't let your frustration out on me.:rolleyes: What makes YOU think Stevenson wouldn't do as well as a pro? He sure as hell was no gigantic stiff like Gonzalez, that sob. Gonzalez didn't listen to his American trainers anyway, maybe he'd do better if he had listened to them. And the two can't be compared, Gonzalez won only 2 gold medals, Stevenson won 3 olympic and 3 world championship medals! Plus 2 Pan Am ones. Plus Teofilo was certainly past his prime when that lumbering idiot beat him.

Yes.That's why we have something called the Internet. It wouldn't take you 40 years to look up these so called "experts."The truth is that you don't have any names to come up with because you lied. There are no "experts" for you to come up with.



I see you think it's OK for Stevenson in his physical prime to beat young amateur fighters(some still teenagers)but when he loses "he's old". And going by your logic Gonzalez should have been a great heavyweight. Gonzalez was only a "lumbering idiot" in the pro ranks. Didn't look like that as an amateur did he?There's a very good chance that Stevenson could have looked like one too when facing a different level of competition.


The burden of proof is on you to come up with why Stevenson would have been great in the pro ranks. An amateur career doesn't prove a damn thing and I've already given you the facts why. Ignoring them doesn't make them go away.



And finally, you are the frustrated one. There is no reason for me to be frustrated. Why would I be? Nobody with any intelligence would rate Stevenson over fighters like Ali.

Dubblechin
11-16-2011, 05:22 PM
That's because you can't fix a chin. Either you can take a punch or you can't. If you can't get past that problem you're not going to make it to the highest level when fighters like Tate are blasting you out in a round. It's not like Tate was a huge puncher either. Bobick responded poorly to getting hit. And I think he had that problem in the amateurs as well. When you get laid out for minutes with headgear that's not a good sign for the pro's. Jeremy Williams had the same problem.


I disagree that he couldn't take a punch. The guy had 103 amateur fights and he was only stopped three times as an amateur (one of them coming against Lyle and another coming against Stevenson - hardly disgraceful). In fact, Bobick entered the Stevenson fight with his left eye nearly swollen shut (from eating so many rights in his previous bout) and the it probably should've been a walkover win (due to injury) for Stevenson and never been fought at all, but everyone thought Duane would win.

He also had 52 professional fights and was stopped four times (one of those four via cuts). That's not bad at all. On the contrary, he had a terrible defense and rarely moved his head. If Bobick had a bad chin on top of it, he'd have been knocked out a lot more times than six times in 155 fights.

And even in fights against Norton and Tate, he didn't go down easy. He took flush head shots over and over and over again, because he HAD NO DEFENSE. Norton was winding up and throwing overhand rights that were coming from the floor and hitting Bobick flush. And I think Tate hit him 50 or so flush shots to the head, and Bobick finished on his feet in the corner.

So he wasn't "chinny" like Williams, who got knocked down all the time.

He just didn't take training seriously once he joined the paid ranks. As an amateur, his offense was his defense. In the pros, you can't just streamroll everyone. You have to move your head, and clinch and slip a jab. Like I said, when they turned pro, Bobick was better than Holmes. Five or six years later, Holmes had improved greatly and Bobick didn't look as good in the ring as he did in 1972. He regressed.

Boxing Bob
11-16-2011, 06:01 PM
Stevenson at least as talented as Ali?????????? Pastranos anti-American BS has got to stop. This guy tries to claim every great American fighter dodged some bum he swears could have beaten him. A burning question- is Pastrano really this stupid or does he believe this BS.

Dubblechin
11-16-2011, 06:10 PM
If you can't read it the headline asks: "Is Duane Bobick Boxing's Next Saviour?"

http://www.crowntiques.com/images/336/IMG_3538.jpg

joseph5620
11-16-2011, 06:28 PM
I disagree that he couldn't take a punch. The guy had 103 amateur fights and he was only stopped three times as an amateur (one of them coming against Lyle and another coming against Stevenson - hardly disgraceful). In fact, Bobick entered the Stevenson fight with his left eye nearly swollen shut (from eating so many rights in his previous bout) and the it probably should've been a walkover win (due to injury) for Stevenson and never been fought at all, but everyone thought Duane would win.

He also had 52 professional fights and was stopped four times (one of those four via cuts). That's not bad at all. On the contrary, he had a terrible defense and rarely moved his head. If Bobick had a bad chin on top of it, he'd have been knocked out a lot more times than six times in 155 fights.

And even in fights against Norton and Tate, he didn't go down easy. He took flush head shots over and over and over again, because he HAD NO DEFENSE. Norton was winding up and throwing overhand rights that were coming from the floor and hitting Bobick flush. And I think Tate hit him 50 or so flush shots to the head, and Bobick finished on his feet in the corner.

So he wasn't "chinny" like Williams, who got knocked down all the time.

He just didn't take training seriously once he joined the paid ranks. As an amateur, his offense was his defense. In the pros, you can't just streamroll everyone. You have to move your head, and clinch and slip a jab. Like I said, when they turned pro, Bobick was better than Holmes. Five or six years later, Holmes had improved greatly and Bobick didn't look as good in the ring as he did in 1972. He regressed.



Bobick was badly hurt by the first hard punch Norton hit him with. And Norton was not a one shot KO artist. I can't see that happerning to a fighter with a solid chin. It's not like Bobick was taking the punches well. Getting stopped every time you step up to a higher level of competition is not good at all either. I believe Bobick had problems taking punches and I'm resolute about that.



I also don't believe he "regressed" after 1972. My belief is that he just didn't get any better and wasn't as good as people thought he would be.

Dubblechin
11-16-2011, 07:04 PM
Bobick was badly hurt by the first hard punch Norton hit him with. And Norton was not a one shot KO artist. I can't see that happerning to a fighter with a solid chin. It's not like Bobick was taking the punches well. Getting stopped every time you step up to a higher level of competition is not good at all either. I believe Bobick had problems taking punches and I'm resolute about that.

I also don't believe he "regressed" after 1972. My belief is that he just didn't get any better and wasn't as good as people thought he would be.

I agree, Norton wasn't a one-punch knockout artist (unless your name is Randy Stephens). But Norton also didn't knock Bobick out with one punch. He knocked him out with about 25 flush shots.

And I never saw the Lyle fight, but I never heard he was out unconscious for minutes, like you claimed. You also said something about Bobick getting knocked out a lot with headgear on. When Bobick fought in the amateurs, they rarely used headgear. They didn't use it at all in international meets in the 1970s when Bobick was the top-rated amateur heavyweight in the world. (They didn't use headgear in the Olympics until 1984.)

I just have a hard time saying a guy with a terrible defense who engages in 155 amateur and pro fights, and only gets knocked out six times, had a weak chin.

Guys with weak chins tend to protect those chins. The guys with a solid chins tend to be the ones who ignore defense, because they don't feel they need to learn to slip punches or move their head -- because they believe in their chin.

I will always believe his lack of dedication and training had more to do with his failures as a pro than anything. In that regard I think Bobick has a lot in common with Jorge Gonzales actually. I don't believe Jorge Gonzales was chinny, either, even though he got knocked out a lot more than Bobick did. But Gonzales turned pro and got worse as he moved along, due to his lack of dedication and overconfidence.

Bobick was just one of those guys who believed the hype about himself. Frazier told him he was great. Eddie Futch, his trainer, told him he was great and could beat Norton. Bobick beat everyone fairly easil and grew very lazy. And when he faced Norton, he got blown out. Simple as that.

He wasn't dedicated enough. He never improved. How difficult is it to learn to slip a jab or move your head, for God's sake? Because Bobick never did.

young_robbed
11-16-2011, 08:52 PM
So now Stevenson is as good as Ali and Bobick apparently would have knocked out Ali. **** off Pastrano. Bobick was garbage, and Stevenson was a very good AMATUER. We don't know how he would have done at a professional level. Period..

Pastrano
11-16-2011, 09:05 PM
So now Stevenson is as good as Ali and Bobick apparently would have knocked out Ali. **** off Pastrano. Bobick was garbage, and Stevenson was a very good AMATUER. We don't know how he would have done at a professional level. Period..

You are American, so i forgive you. Just don't let it happen too often.:D I never said that about Bobick anyway.

young_robbed
11-16-2011, 09:21 PM
You are American, so i forgive you. Just don't let it happen too often.:D I never said that about Bobick anyway.

That doesn't matter that I'm american. No one should consider an amateur fighter as talented or as good as Ali. PERIOD. That's blasphemy.

Pastrano
11-17-2011, 09:09 AM
That doesn't matter that I'm american. No one should consider an amateur fighter as talented or as good as Ali. PERIOD. That's blasphemy.

And this coming from a diehard Ali fan...can you understand why I wouldn't think its objective?:rolleyes:

young_robbed
11-17-2011, 04:05 PM
And this coming from a diehard Ali fan...can you understand why I wouldn't think its objective?:rolleyes:

I'm not even that big of an Ali fan. I like him. But seriously Stevenson has not done anything to be considered as talented as Ali. That makes no sense at all.

JAB5239
11-17-2011, 04:51 PM
Ahem, he beat guys like Biggs, Dokes, Tate and Bobick. Two of them were champions and the other two were top ranked contenders.

Two were top ranked contenders and two were champions when Stevenson fought them? How many rounds were these bouts scheduled for? You don't seem to understand that fighting 3 rounds and fighting 15 rounds are two vastly different things, and you're content to ignore the evidence that being a great amateur doesn't ensure you're going to be a great pro.

What other proof do you want?

Other proof? Im still waiting for SOME proof!

Stevenson destroyed them all. I think youre just envious because Teofilo is Cuban and many experts said he could beat Ali. Even Foreman said he would def be world champion if he turned pro. And so did Cosell.

Opinions are not facts. What is a fact is that no amateur fighter ever beat a heavyweight world champion without working his way up the pro ranks and learning as he went along. I'd sure be interested in some links to all these experts who said Stevenson could beat Ali.....whats the hold up? :dunno:

Pastrano
11-17-2011, 05:24 PM
Opinions are not facts. What is a fact is that no amateur fighter ever beat a heavyweight world champion without working his way up the pro ranks and learning as he went along. I'd sure be interested in some links to all these experts who said Stevenson could beat Ali.....whats the hold up? :dunno:

Stevenson wasn't just any other amateur fighter, he was THE amateur fighter so show him some respect! Ali himself said that if they ever fought it would end in a draw. And we know how unmodest Ali always was about predicting his own fights' outcomes.

JAB5239
11-17-2011, 05:37 PM
Stevenson wasn't just any other amateur fighter, he was THE amateur fighter so show him some respect! Ali himself said that if they ever fought it would end in a draw. And we know how unmodest Ali always was about predicting his own fights' outcomes.

Stevenson gets massive credit from me for being a great amateur, but that's where it ends. The fact is he never beat a middle of the road professional let alone an all time great one. And for you to think he would just walk in their and do that without gaining professional experience and stamina first just makes you look silly.

Still waiting for some links bro.

Pastrano
11-18-2011, 10:32 AM
Stevenson gets massive credit from me for being a great amateur, but that's where it ends. The fact is he never beat a middle of the road professional let alone an all time great one. And for you to think he would just walk in their and do that without gaining professional experience and stamina first just makes you look silly.

Still waiting for some links bro.

That line completely reveals your ignorance and bias. Yes, he is a communist. Yes, he's a Cuban and proud of it, a REAL Cuban, not like those buggers you got down in Florida. American lackeys and drug lords most of them. Yes, Castro and his regime have done bad things but they have done good things also. And saying Stevenson never beat a mediocre professional is just STUPID. Sorry, but you laid a matzoball there. He never even fought as a pro, so how can you blame him for that?!?:rofl: Its that YOU don't WANT him to, or guys like you wanted him to lose, but he kept on thrashing your guys and thats why you envy him and try to diminish him as a boxer.

JAB5239
11-18-2011, 01:56 PM
That line completely reveals your ignorance and bias. Yes, he is a communist. Yes, he's a Cuban and proud of it, a REAL Cuban, not like those buggers you got down in Florida. American lackeys and drug lords most of them. Yes, Castro and his regime have done bad things but they have done good things also. And saying Stevenson never beat a mediocre professional is just STUPID. Sorry, but you laid a matzoball there. He never even fought as a pro, so how can you blame him for that?!?:rofl: Its that YOU don't WANT him to, or guys like you wanted him to lose, but he kept on thrashing your guys and thats why you envy him and try to diminish him as a boxer.

He never fought pro, this means he never beat a pro fighter. His circumstances while heart wrenching and sad are 100% irrelevant to these facts. This means your argument holds no water and you're making BS claims.

JAB5239
11-18-2011, 02:01 PM
Doesn't matter, I know YOU are.:p Or maybe youre Korean?

There will be one warning only about posting this kind of nationalistic crap, so don't expect to see another. This goes for everyone.

Pastrano
11-18-2011, 02:02 PM
There will be one warning only about posting this kind of nationalistic crap, so don't expect to see another. This goes for everyone.

Nationalistic crap??

JAB5239
11-18-2011, 02:07 PM
Nationalistic crap??

Calling people Chinese pimps. Trying to bait them by calling them Korean. Yeah, nationalistic crap. If you have a problem with this you can PM me. My rules (this forums rules) aren't going to be debated in a thread.

barfly12
11-18-2011, 03:27 PM
Duane was an excellent amateur, but a second rate pro. He was not particularly fast and only had an average punch. His big weakness was his jaw which could not take a top contender's punch. He never beat a really top tier heavyweight and was carefully protected up til the Norton fight. He was well schooled by Eddie Futch but simply didn't have the power, reflexes, or jaw to be a top pro. It is not true that Ali ducked him. Ali was VERY upset after the Norton fight, realizing what a big pay day just got killed. Ali fought Foreman and Shavers and Lyle; you really think he was afraid of Duane? At least Cooney could really punch.

Pastrano
11-18-2011, 03:35 PM
Duane was an excellent amateur, but a second rate pro. He was not particularly fast and only had an average punch. His big weakness was his jaw which could not take a top contender's punch. He never beat a really top tier heavyweight and was carefully protected up til the Norton fight. He was well schooled by Eddie Futch but simply didn't have the power, reflexes, or jaw to be a top pro. It is not true that Ali ducked him. Ali was VERY upset after the Norton fight, realizing what a big pay day just got killed. Ali fought Foreman and Shavers and Lyle; you really think he was afraid of Duane? At least Cooney could really punch.

Average punch?!? How da hell did he score 42 kayos then?!

JAB5239
11-18-2011, 04:14 PM
Average punch?!? How da hell did he score 42 kayos then?!

Because out of hos 42 ko opponents they had been knocked out a combined 369 times in the combined careers. Did you ever stop to think that they were picked to make Bobick look good because they had no chins or had lousy defense, or were inexperienced?

Scott9945
11-18-2011, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by Pastrano http://www.boxingscene.com/designs/radio/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11442946#post11442946)
Doesn't matter, I know YOU are.:p Or maybe youre Korean?

Apparently Jab had the good taste to delete this post, but I assure you that I'm the whitest Whiteboy here. Which would normally make me your type of guy. Except that you make me sick. Where are you from, Borneo? South Africa? Croatia? Nevermind, nobody really cares.

:loser:

Terry A
11-26-2011, 10:03 PM
Because Stevenson was both bigger, stronger and at least as talented as Ali, if not more. He could throw great combinations or blow you out with single punches. Ali couldn't do the latter.

I can't take anything he says seriously. His opinions are worst than SCtrojans. And that's saying something.

I only made it to page 3 of this thread. I have to log out & won't be back on here until Wednesday or so. But when I come back, I'm going to pick up where I left off.

Joseph5620, I've never had a harsh word for anyone on this whole forum. But I have to whole heartedly agree with you that Pastrano is BY FAR my personal least favorite member here. Always argumentative even though he knows next to nothing.

This is the new all-time most stupid thing I've ever read on any forum ever......."Stevenson was both bigger, stronger and at least as talented as Ali, if not more."

I don't even have words.......