after the fight chavez said, Tzsyu is a good champion, simply put, a strong champion but hes not a great fighter. i agree. a younger chavez would have destroyed him. how do u guys see this?

prime J.C. Chaves/Pryor/Duran could have taken out any of the past to todays fighters (in there divison) out..they were amazing and maybe even unbeatable...so what u speak may be true

could u imagine a prime duran vs leonard (results may have been diff.)

prime chavez vs dlh(dlh would have been taken into deep water,late rounds, and killed)

prime pryor vs prime Kosta T...now that would have been heaven to watch and most boxing fans would have given there left nut to see this

prime J.C. Chaves/Pryor/Duran could have taken out any of the past to todays fighters (in there divison) out..they were amazing and maybe even unbeatable...so what u speak may be true

could u imagine a prime duran vs leonard (results may have been diff.)

prime chavez vs dlh(dlh would have been taken into deep water,late rounds, and killed)

prime pryor vs prime Kosta T...now that would have been heaven to watch and most boxing fans would have given there left nut to see this

I agree .

This topic was just covered LAST WEEK !

after the fight chavez said, Tzsyu is a good champion, simply put, a strong champion but hes not a great fighter. i agree. a younger chavez would have destroyed him. how do u guys see this?


If Chavez had beaten Tzsyu, and then said that, he would be much more credible.

Chavez was KTFO by Kostya. Period.

If Chavez had beaten Tzsyu, and then said that, he would be much more credible.

Chavez was KTFO by Kostya. Period.

Why's that ?

Chavez was completely shot by the time he faced Tszyu....& he himself knew it.
He was in there for a payday.

apart from being totally shot he was also far from being KTFO just an old man beaten up for 6 rounds, prime chavez vs prime zoo and it'll be zoo that gets KTFO, don't get me wrong zoo is quality but chavez is a legend

prime J.C. Chaves/Pryor/Duran could have taken out any of the past to todays fighters (in there divison) out..they were amazing and maybe even unbeatable...so what u speak may be true

could u imagine a prime duran vs leonard (results may have been diff.)

prime chavez vs dlh(dlh would have been taken into deep water,late rounds, and killed)

prime pryor vs prime Kosta T...now that would have been heaven to watch and most boxing fans would have given there left nut to see this
I think a prime Chaves wouldve knocked Zoo out but people need to stop all this **** about how the fighters in the past were better then today's because it's not true. Chaves wouldve still had problems with Zoo, Spinks, or Mayweather. He had problems with guys like Sweet Pea, and Taylor. Pryor was great but these guys arent unbeatable and he wouldve also had problems. Remember how good Sugar Shane was when he was in the lower divisions? He wouldve gave Chaves and Pryor problems. The same with a young Oscar. You think Chaves wouldve killed a much taller and faster Dlh? I got my money on Oscar and I dont even like him that much. Hagler, Hearns, and Leonard were great but they would still have problems with Hopkins, and Tito. and also dont let us forget how good Jones and Toney were. These guys could fight in any era and would be a tough match up. People have to stop talking about the old days because the guys weve had in the last decade can stack up with anyone. Guys like MAB, Morales, Pacman, Ricardo Lopez, and many more

Zoo is a great fighter and would have given any fighter in history problems. He is probably the #1 p4p of all time against southpaws. I have never seen another fighter have as easy a time against southpaws.

Zoo is a great fighter and would have given any fighter in history problems. He is probably the #1 p4p of all time against southpaws. I have never seen another fighter have as easy a time against southpaws.
Maybe those southpaws arent that great. People give Zoo too much credit for the Mitchell win. Who has Mitchell beat and he's been knocked out by Stevie Johnston and other fighters. Judah hasnt beat anyone either

Have you seen zoo's resume? It is very impressive!! He has fought and beat the best in his division. Nobody gave kostya a free pass. He wasnt hyped up like cotto. He earned everything he has by fighting and knocking out the best competition.

Have you seen zoo's resume? It is very impressive!! He has fought and beat the best in his division. Nobody gave kostya a free pass. He wasnt hyped up like cotto. He earned everything he has by fighting and knocking out the best competition.I'm not taking anything away from tszyu, but I think a prime chavez would have mopped the floor with tszyu...

Prime Chavez-Kostya: everything that I know - would be excellent fight .

yea chavez would have problems but if u see that fight he caught zoo with some nice shots and it he was in his prime it wouldve had so much more of an impact and chavez would have capitalized on it.

Have you seen zoo's resume? It is very impressive!! He has fought and beat the best in his division. Nobody gave kostya a free pass. He wasnt hyped up like cotto. He earned everything he has by fighting and knocking out the best competition.
His resume isnt that impressive to me. Everyone sweats him and I think he is a good fighter but he is overated. Like I said Mitchell, and Judah havent beat anyone. Especially Mitchell. Chaves was old when they faught and he cleaned out the division but it was nothing compared to what it is now. He hasnt beat any of the new guys. Urkal gave him alot of problems. The division now has Harris, Gatti, Mayweather, Hatton, and Cotto. His resume is overated

prime chavez vs dlh(dlh would have been taken into deep water,late rounds, and killed)

prime pryor vs prime Kosta T...now that would have been heaven to watch and most boxing fans would have given there left nut to see this
Prime Chavez-Prime De La Hoya would be a great fight, but lets remember, a past his prime mover named Whitaker gave Chavez alot of trouble and made him look inferior for 12 rounds. What would a guy with comparable skills and superior punching power do to Chavez? Maybe blow him away if Chavez doesn't quit first? Aaron Pryor was simply too good for anyone fighter who ever weighed 140 lbs, he would've dismantled Kostya Tszyu, the stoppage would look similar to Mercer-Morrison. Chavez in his prime would get off the canvas and win a decision over Tszyu.

What about roger mayweather? I guess he was a bum also

The decision for that fight was in question, i read ain interview today with mayweather where he said he won that fight against zoo ( i know they all say that)

Prime Chavez-Prime De La Hoya would be a great fight, but lets remember, a past his prime mover named Whitaker gave Chavez alot of trouble and made him look inferior for 12 rounds. What would a guy with comparable skills and superior punching power do to Chavez? Maybe blow him away if Chavez doesn't quit first? Aaron Pryor was simply too good for anyone fighter who ever weighed 140 lbs, he would've dismantled Kostya Tszyu, the stoppage would look similar to Mercer-Morrison. Chavez in his prime would get off the canvas and win a decision over Tszyu.

Chavez too was passed his prime when he faced whitaker. He didnt have the stamina or drive anymore. It was easily apparent as he simply stopped throwing punches even when whitaker was there for Chavez to go to work. He simply didnt wanna work anymore.

As for what would someone with comparable skills and superior power do to Chavez. Tszyu hasnt proved as much especially in the skills department. Chavez in his prime faced fighters who were supposed to have superior power or skills in his career and he always demonstrated an ability to be smart and skilled enough to a)Stay within a range at which is opponents power would not be as effective while allowing himself to work, B) Evade the shots with good head movement and punch blocking and effectively counter-punch, C) And just plain taking the shots and coming back with damaging shots of his own.

as far as I'm concerned KT couldve stood in there with JCC, Duran, Pryor, or any of the other fighters from bbefore his time near his weight division. I cannot say who wouldve won those fights, but I believe KT wouldve been one of the best names on their records.

Chavez too was passed his prime when he faced whitaker. He didnt have the stamina or drive anymore. It was easily apparent as he simply stopped throwing punches even when whitaker was there for Chavez to go to work. He simply didnt wanna work anymore.

As for what would someone with comparable skills and superior power do to Chavez. Tszyu hasnt proved as much especially in the skills department. Chavez in his prime faced fighters who were supposed to have superior power or skills in his career and he always demonstrated an ability to be smart and skilled enough to a)Stay within a range at which is opponents power would not be as effective while allowing himself to work, B) Evade the shots with good head movement and punch blocking and effectively counter-punch, C) And just plain taking the shots and coming back with damaging shots of his own.
i think he was talking about de la hoya man

His resume isnt that impressive to me. Everyone sweats him and I think he is a good fighter but he is overated. Like I said Mitchell, and Judah havent beat anyone. Especially Mitchell. Chaves was old when they faught and he cleaned out the division but it was nothing compared to what it is now. He hasnt beat any of the new guys. Urkal gave him alot of problems. The division now has Harris, Gatti, Mayweather, Hatton, and Cotto. His resume is overated

How is KT overrated? He has fought everyone that has been put in front of him and beat them all, including avenging his one loss! He has never ducked anyone and has ruled his division for nearly 10 years. You claim that all these fighters would have beat him in their primes. How often have the true greats fought each other in their primes? It is your opinion that KT is overrated! And every other person who has questioned KT has had there mouth shut by him including many of the so called experts of boxing.

Just because he don't talk himself up like the other myths in the game dose not mean he is overrated! Cotto anyone?

I'll back KT to take out any of the names you mentioned if they don't all duck him by asking for unrealistic deals or hiding behind their TV contracts.

How is KT overrated? He has fought everyone that has been put in front of him and beat them all, including avenging his one loss! He has never ducked anyone and has ruled his division for nearly 10 years. You claim that all these fighters would have beat him in their primes. How often have the true greats fought each other in their primes? It is your opinion that KT is overrated! And every other person who has questioned KT has had there mouth shut by him including many of the so called experts of boxing.

Just because he don't talk himself up like the other myths in the game dose not mean he is overrated! Cotto anyone?

I'll back KT to take out any of the names you mentioned if they don't all duck him by asking for unrealistic deals or hiding behind their TV contracts.
First of all Zoo didnt avenge his loss. All time greats dont lose to Phillips. He ruled the division but there were no great fighters their and the good ones may have been overrated based on their resume. If you heard me talk before then you know that I dont hype Cotto up like the rest. I think Zoo could have problems with Harris, Cotto, Gatti, or Hatton and I pick him to lose against Mayweather. Zoo had a many chances to move up in weight and fight Mosley, Oscar, Forrest, Mayorga, or Margarito and he never did. A great fighter wouldve moved up where the better comp is

What about roger mayweather? I guess he was a bum also
Roger was also older and that was a close fight

Chavez too was passed his prime when he faced whitaker. He didnt have the stamina or drive anymore. It was easily apparent as he simply stopped throwing punches even when whitaker was there for Chavez to go to work. He simply didnt wanna work anymore.

As for what would someone with comparable skills and superior power do to Chavez. Tszyu hasnt proved as much especially in the skills department. Chavez in his prime faced fighters who were supposed to have superior power or skills in his career and he always demonstrated an ability to be smart and skilled enough to a)Stay within a range at which is opponents power would not be as effective while allowing himself to work, B) Evade the shots with good head movement and punch blocking and effectively counter-punch, C) And just plain taking the shots and coming back with damaging shots of his own.
Chaves would have no chance against Sweet Pea no matter when they faught. He was still in his prime. He was in his prime against Taylor and look what happened so why do you think he wouldve beat Sweet Pea

I think a prime Chaves wouldve knocked Zoo out but people need to stop all this **** about how the fighters in the past were better then today's because it's not true. Chaves wouldve still had problems with Zoo, Spinks, or Mayweather. He had problems with guys like Sweet Pea, and Taylor. Pryor was great but these guys arent unbeatable and he wouldve also had problems. Remember how good Sugar Shane was when he was in the lower divisions? He wouldve gave Chaves and Pryor problems. The same with a young Oscar. You think Chaves wouldve killed a much taller and faster Dlh? I got my money on Oscar and I dont even like him that much. Hagler, Hearns, and Leonard were great but they would still have problems with Hopkins, and Tito. and also dont let us forget how good Jones and Toney were. These guys could fight in any era and would be a tough match up. People have to stop talking about the old days because the guys weve had in the last decade can stack up with anyone. Guys like MAB, Morales, Pacman, Ricardo Lopez, and many more


i completely agree w/ everything you said here, homes.

Chaves would have no chance against Sweet Pea no matter when they faught. He was still in his prime. He was in his prime against Taylor and look what happened so why do you think he wouldve beat Sweet Pea

First of all i dont know if he would have beat Sweet Pea but i imagine he would have moved better and put forth a better effort. That wasnt a Prime Chavez.. he had grown bulky insted of slender and on his toes like in his PRIME. He had become the flat footed fighter people saw at the end of his career.

Yes he was in his prime against Taylor.. and yes look at what happened.. Taylor took one of the worst beatings ever to be taken by a boxer. Taylor was fast, skilled, and a mover. And he couldnt stop the offense unleashed by Chavez. He was winning because he was in condition to take all those punishing shots, and the stamina to throw 1000s of punches against a fighter who kept connecting flush to his head and body causing damage every time. Not once did Chavez look inferior to Taylor. That HBO legendary Nights **** they spew is Bull**** and easy to see by any true boxing fan who watches the tape. Chavez didnt slowly start getting to taylor... He was getting to taylor from the start.

yea chavez would have problems but if u see that fight he caught zoo with some nice shots and it he was in his prime it wouldve had so much more of an impact and chavez would have capitalized on it.

Just remember what is said during almost every fight where one fighter is past his prime "power is the last thing to go" so I don't think the punches would have done more. But the amount of punches would have more effect on Tszyu, remember JCC was never a big puncher true he had decent power for his weight but he was so effective due to the number of punches he was able to land. If he and Kostya were to fight while both in their primes imo I think Tszyu would pull out a win, but I know for a fact that it would be an absolute war not to mention the fight would probably set some kind of record for punching accuracy since they both are so deadly accurate with their shots. I still say Tszyu by split dec.

Tszyu is not overrated he fought in the deepest era in the history of the division and dominated.

Guys like Whitaker and Taylor fight in completly different styles than a guy like Tszyu so you cant judge by that.

also saying someone struggled against those guys is no shame considering both are all time great talents and not exactly bums off the side of the street.

Kostya is no joke. I don't see why people doubt kostya. The man is always in tip top shape and his right hand is made of iron. He coulda competed and possibly beat those greats people have mentioned.

This **** about "old fighter are always better than current fighters" is bull****...

First of all i dont know if he would have beat Sweet Pea but i imagine he would have moved better and put forth a better effort. That wasnt a Prime Chavez.. he had grown bulky insted of slender and on his toes like in his PRIME. He had become the flat footed fighter people saw at the end of his career.

Yes he was in his prime against Taylor.. and yes look at what happened.. Taylor took one of the worst beatings ever to be taken by a boxer. Taylor was fast, skilled, and a mover. And he couldnt stop the offense unleashed by Chavez. He was winning because he was in condition to take all those punishing shots, and the stamina to throw 1000s of punches against a fighter who kept connecting flush to his head and body causing damage every time. Not once did Chavez look inferior to Taylor. That HBO legendary Nights **** they spew is Bull**** and easy to see by any true boxing fan who watches the tape. Chavez didnt slowly start getting to taylor... He was getting to taylor from the start.


Taylor and Sweet Pea had two totally different styles, Pernell was way better defensively and Taylor was more quick bursts of offence. And to what was said earlier Chavez imo was a good champion and a tuff s.o.b. but if you look closely at his resume he really didn't beat that many greats or even really recognizable opponents, Example(R. Mayweather he beat twice so did alot of other fighters including Tszyu, He beat Edwin Rosario who had already been fightng as a pro for 18 years, so kinda past his prime since that seems to be a big deal. He beat Meldrick Taylor (which I feel was his marquee victory) twice, but besides them I guess you could count Greg Haugen, Hector Camacho sr. who imo was severly overrated, but every other time he fought someone top tier he either lost or was the recipient of a bogus dec. ala sweet pea. DeLa Hoya dominated him twice, he fought to a draw with M. Angel Gonzalez(who K. Tszyu dominated), lost to Frankie Randall which imo is worse than losing to V. Phillips so whoever it was that said great fighters don't lose to phillips hopefully doesn't think Chavez is a great fighter!

Tszyu is not overrated he fought in the deepest era in the history of the division and dominated.

Guys like Whitaker and Taylor fight in completly different styles than a guy like Tszyu so you cant judge by that.

also saying someone struggled against those guys is no shame considering both are all time great talents and not exactly bums off the side of the street.
What do you mean he dominated in the deepest era of 140? There were no great fighters. The only good ones were Judah and Mitchell and like I said they haven beaten anyone. The division is much deeper now

Albeit pass his prime, the beating that Chavez took from Tsyzu was so one-sided that Kosta made it look effortless and did it without a huff or puff. It was the only fight in which i have seen Chavez fighting going backwards. His knew his could not overpower Tszyu and thus had to fight going backwards. I can't see anything different if he were in his prime other than it being more competitive and close. To say a prime Chavez gives Tszyu a beating is ludicrous. Since the only the time they have fought, it was Kosta getting the W.

This bs about past fighters beating current fighters is rubbish. Past fighters may have been bigger warriors due to them fighting for smaller purses and having to really fight for a living but man has evolved over the years to become faster and stronger. Just look at all athletic records and how times have gone lower and lower etc. They may throw less punchers, and fight less nowadays but they are more efficient and better defensively. I truly believe that they in all divisions apart from the sorry heavyweight division that all the current fighters could either match or beat those of the past.

Chavez would have taken kosta in to the later rounds and his body work would have eventually ko's kosta.

Albeit pass his prime, the beating that Chavez took from Tsyzu was so one-sided that Kosta made it look effortless and did it without a huff or puff. It was the only fight in which i have seen Chavez fighting going backwards. His knew his could not overpower Tszyu and thus had to fight going backwards. I can't see anything different if he were in his prime other than it being more competitive and close. To say a prime Chavez gives Tszyu a beating is ludicrous. Since the only the time they have fought, it was Kosta getting the W.

This bs about past fighters beating current fighters is rubbish. Past fighters may have been bigger warriors due to them fighting for smaller purses and having to really fight for a living but man has evolved over the years to become faster and stronger. Just look at all athletic records and how times have gone lower and lower etc. They may throw less punchers, and fight less nowadays but they are more efficient and better defensively. I truly believe that they in all divisions apart from the sorry heavyweight division that all the current fighters could either match or beat those of the past.
How can you say that? Do you know how much a boxer can change when he's out of his prime? If you dont think that theirs that much of a difference then your crazy. Theirs been so many all time greats who have lost to C level fighters because they were out of their prime

Taylor and Sweet Pea had two totally different styles, Pernell was way better defensively and Taylor was more quick bursts of offence. And to what was said earlier Chavez imo was a good champion and a tuff s.o.b. but if you look closely at his resume he really didn't beat that many greats or even really recognizable opponents, Example(R. Mayweather he beat twice so did alot of other fighters including Tszyu, He beat Edwin Rosario who had already been fightng as a pro for 18 years, so kinda past his prime since that seems to be a big deal. He beat Meldrick Taylor (which I feel was his marquee victory) twice, but besides them I guess you could count Greg Haugen, Hector Camacho sr. who imo was severly overrated, but every other time he fought someone top tier he either lost or was the recipient of a bogus dec. ala sweet pea. DeLa Hoya dominated him twice, he fought to a draw with M. Angel Gonzalez(who K. Tszyu dominated), lost to Frankie Randall which imo is worse than losing to V. Phillips so whoever it was that said great fighters don't lose to phillips hopefully doesn't think Chavez is a great fighter!


I know they have completely different styles im replying to what he said because he said it like Chavez had trouble getting to Taylor or something.

And its funny you talk about prime but all the not so good marks you are talking about are when Chavez was passed his prime as well. Chavez's resume during his prime holds its own against any all time great.

You need to get some better facts, if Edwin Rosario had been fighting as a Pro for 18 years when he took the beating from Chavez does that mean Rosario became a pro at age 5 or 6?!? 4 of Edwin's last fights before he fought chavez he beat Juan Nazario, Livingston Bramble, and though he was robbed most agree he beat Hector Camacho when he was at his best. Rosario was definitely on the upswing with wins over marquee fighters.

Chavez also tkoed Mario Martinez who would later fight Azumah to a Split decision loss.

Yes other fighters defeated Mayweather, but unlike tszyu Chavez beat him when he was young and on the upswing. Then he beat him later just for the hell of it. He also has a win against Rocky Lockridge (first person to beat Mayweather and first person to KO him)

He also beat Jose Luis Ramirez which he didnt really wanna do because they were very close friends. JL Ramirez had just come off a Split decision win against sweat pea btw.

And like you Mentioned he faced Taylor, Rarely in Boxing do 2 GREAT champs meet both at their prime. Greats put on great performances against greats in the prime, and thats what chavez did.

Tszyu is a good Fighter but his resume cant hold a candle to Chavez's thats just the truth.

How can you say that? Do you know how much a boxer can change when he's out of his prime? If you dont think that theirs that much of a difference then your crazy. Theirs been so many all time greats who have lost to C level fighters because they were out of their prime

I agree .

Kostya prime vs. Chavez prime. If only the Gods could make it happen.

My pick is Chavez. Unlike the Cahvez soundly beaten by Kostya, the prime Chavez would have been moving forward and would not have been "standing" while Kostya unloaded. The prime Chavez would have been throwing whenever Kostya was trying to reset. Kostya is at his best when he's got a guy backing up and trying to counter. Chavez prime never did it that way.

Kostya is very hittable faced with Chavez's prime skills and prime chin, which would allow Chavez to keep coming to Kostya. I do not see Zoo putting Chavez down..

alchohol can make math difficult so yes I was wrong Rosario was a pro for 8 years when they fought. But dude, to say that Juan Nazario was a marquee fighter and to pump up a win via stoppage from cuts against him is ludicris your talking about the same Nazario that in I believe his next fight after the loss to Rosario was KO'ed by featherfisted Sweet Pea in 1 that's right 1 frikin rd. And then come back only to be ko'ed in two rds. by some random dude . Hardly something that a "marquee" fighter does. I would however say that when he beat Livingston Bramble that he was about as good then as he ever was Iwill give you that one. But Camacho was never imo a really good or great fighter all he did was talk **** then run away and try to pot shot opponents to death he had no power at all and really only looked decent against mid-level comp. I just think that (and don't get me wrong I think that Chavez was a really good if not great champion) the one flaw that I have always seen with Chavez as well as Jose Luis Ramirez was that their records were padded by a ton of easy victories over club fighters in Mexico. So I think that Julio Ceasar Chavez was real good like I said but I just don't see him beating K. Tszyu at any point in either of their careers I just think Tszyu has too much power and accuracy overal for JCC.

dont forget tzyu lost to an ol vince phillips by ko i think a young chavez would have been able to take his best punch and taken advantage of his week defense
and old fighters were better they couldnt be as lazy as the guys are in this day and age they fought 15rds u tell me how many fights might have been ended diffrently if the still fought 15rds dlh wouldnt have so much love then the man can bearly go nine without being winded

Chavez beats Tszyu 9 out of 10 times.

Now someone said Tszyu is overrated, in terms of what? P4P? Top 140 pound fighter all time? I think Tszyu is top 5 in his division all time, no one can argue that. It's not Tszyu's fault why he doesnt have "great" fighters in his division. IMO, Tszyu would beat any fighter in his division right now including Mayweather...wonder why he never mentions Tszyu????

Chavez beats Tszyu 9 out of 10 times.

Now someone said Tszyu is overrated, in terms of what? P4P? Top 140 pound fighter all time? I think Tszyu is top 5 in his division all time, no one can argue that. It's not Tszyu's fault why he doesnt have "great" fighters in his division. IMO, Tszyu would beat any fighter in his division right now including Mayweather...wonder why he never mentions Tszyu????
Why doesnt Tszyu mention Floyd? They both realize that their isnt enough money in that fight right now even if they were on the same network. Now you put them on different networks and they have no chanc. Maybe after Tszyu has one more fight and Floyd gets a PPV fight with Gatti then it will be different. Also I think they have alot of respect for eachother. I have heard Floyd say that he wants Zoo but he never says anything bad about him and vice versa. As far as Tszyu #for# all time goes if their werent great fighters in the division then why not move up like Floyd has done twice. Their were great fighters at 147 like Oscar, Shane, Vernon, Margarito, Spinks, and Mayorga

Tszyu doesnt have to call out anyone his the champ, that's not his style anyways. However, Mayweather mentions Gatti who's extremly overrated although his fun to watch. Mayweather wont prove nothing by beating Gatti and winning a bogus belt. Tszyu would beat Mayweather, how sad that boxing fans will never get to see it happen.

Tszyu doesnt have to call out anyone his the champ, that's not his style anyways. However, Mayweather mentions Gatti who's extremly overrated although his fun to watch. Mayweather wont prove nothing by beating Gatti and winning a bogus belt. Tszyu would beat Mayweather, how sad that boxing fans will never get to see it happen.
Floyd calls out Gatti because that's the money man and a chance to get on PPV. If Zoo brought the most money then he would be trying to fight Zoo. Mayweather doesnt have to call out anyone either. He has proven himself in boxing and has a better resume in 3 different weight classes and all that in much less time. I also think the Floyd Zoo fight could happened. After the Gatti fight, Floyd will only want big fights and PPV fights