View Full Version : History Section: Your Take On The Whole Pacquiao/Mayweather Saga?


Perfect Plex
11-03-2011, 01:25 AM
I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this?

Who do you pass the blame to more for the fight not happening? Do you feel the fight will ever get made? Were would it rank in the best fights never to happen? Etc.....

Obama
11-03-2011, 02:44 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/X3oe9n1bews" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So much for not happening.

Perfect Plex
11-03-2011, 02:51 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/X3oe9n1bews" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So much for not happening.

That video dosent really prove much do. The fight is still not happening, and they aint even in talks yet.

Mannie Phresh
11-03-2011, 03:21 AM
fight hype did an accurate chronological article on the failed negotiations. basically the first negotiations were completely team pacs fault the second failed attempt is a mix of both. bob arum has lied the most in all of this though. he lied about floyd offering the a compromise of 2 weeks without random testing to pac in the first negotiations and the judge that moderated it came out and defended the truth.

JAB5239
11-03-2011, 04:29 AM
I could care less if it happens or not, there are plenty of other great fights to be made. I like Pac and I don't like Floyd, but both camps have done to much posturing, bickering, slandering and giving excuses. These guys are beyond rich and should have checked their ego's and made the fight two years ago for the fans instead of trying to one up each other.

jabsRstiff
11-03-2011, 09:20 AM
Can't really to say who is to blame....except for the system itself. Athletes today are investments, and no one wants to risk that investment. Boxers are no longer allowed to lose because a loss, while not the end, will cut that guy's marketability down quite a bit.

What I do know for sure is this, and it's something I try to let the "lay" people out there know:

These guys are not afraid of each other. If you've ever boxed or known a fighter, they do not fear getting in the ring with anyone who isn't either a whole lot bigger or on another level. Even then most fighters still would take on anyone. It is the people around them who keep them from getting it on.

Kid McCoy
11-03-2011, 10:39 AM
I did want them to fight but I've just lost all interest in it now. Even if they somehow agreed on drug testing standards they'd spend more months bickering about the purse split, weight, ring size, glove size and who knows what else.

Both deserve their share of the blame, as do the legions of promoters, managers, lawyers, advisors and other hangers on on both sides. Two huge egos incapable of reaching a compromise.

It's a sad commentary on modern boxing that there's not much incentive for them to face each other. Both would argue that their legacy is already secure, both are already rich, and they can make big money in other less dangerous fights. In other words it's not worth the risk. A real shame, for the fans and boxing as a whole.

Sugarj
11-03-2011, 11:32 AM
Initially I did blame Pacquiou. His reluctance to give blood concerned me!

But the more I think about it, I think Floyd is nervous to meet Pacquiou. Its a combination of Manny's speed, his southpaw style and I genuinely think Floyd is suspicious of Manny partaking in PEDs.

I think Pacquiou is keener to meet Mayweather than the other way round. I think Floyd would happily ride the wave of 'if he wont take the test, he cant meet me'. Floyd knows that Manny's style will not make him look good.

On the subject of testing in the final two weeks of the fight, I can understand anyone not wanting to give blood up potentially until the day before the fight. You can feel a little woosy and weak after giving blood.......and I gather that Manny is more than happy to give urine samples at any point, which should really indicate PED use. If there was to be Olympic style testing I'd want an agreement that both boxers were to be tested randomly, but at the same time as each other.....so that no one gains a perceivable advantage.

I hope the fight happens. If Manny looks good against Marquez we can honestly still say that these two are still the best pound for pound boxers in the world.

There should be a complete 50/50 purse split and no catchweights, the fight should be at 147Lbs and both should enter the ring at the same time. It is right that they should meet, the clash is certainly interesting. I personally think the fight will be boring, with both respecting each other's abilities too much and hesitating to commit, but it is about time we knew who is best.

I certainly cant pick a winner with any confidence......

IronDanHamza
11-03-2011, 02:02 PM
The fight not happening in early 2010 is obviously Pacquaio's fault.

The sole reason the fight didn't happen was because he simply refused to undergo further blood testing. People say that it was just an excuse and Mayweather would have come up with another one. In that case, Pacquiao should have called his bluff, but he didn't, meaning that the fight didn't happen because of him. And that's that.

As for the other 'negotiations' in late 2010 I would say it's both their faults. Everything was just bullsh*t just quotes from either side talking nonsense. Mayweather was on 'vacation' and Pacquaio didn't pull his weight either.

So all in all, both are at fault. And both are divas and control freaks.

joseph5620
11-03-2011, 04:34 PM
I could care less if it happens or not, there are plenty of other great fights to be made. I like Pac and I don't like Floyd, but both camps have done to much posturing, bickering, slandering and giving excuses. These guys are beyond rich and should have checked their ego's and made the fight two years ago for the fans instead of trying to one up each other.





At this point I don't care anymore either. Of course I'll watch it if it happens but I'm not looking forward to it or waiting like I was in 2010. I think it was Jeff Mayweather who said " You have to strike the iron while it's hot" when he talked about the fight two years ago. I think the iron has cooled at this point.

Off topic but I think Paquiao wins a one sided fight in the rematch with Marquez. I don't see it as an exciting fight at all like the previous two.

Scott9945
11-03-2011, 09:02 PM
I never could buy into Mayweather's enormous ego in demanding his own personal standard for drug testing. Being the best fighter in the world doesn't make you more authority than the boxing commission.

Mayweather has seen Pacquiao fight plenty of times. Either he thinks he can beat him, or he doesn't. Throwing obstacles to stop the fight from happening says a lot to me.

That being said, plenty of blame falls on Bob Arum for inflaming the entire situation.

TheGreatA
11-03-2011, 09:21 PM
Two boxers who figured out they can make as much money without risking a loss to each other. I'm guessing it will happen once they run out of options or in a worst case scenario when another one of them loses in an upset.

SirTomJones
11-03-2011, 10:01 PM
fight hype did an accurate chronological article on the failed negotiations. basically the first negotiations were completely team pacs fault the second failed attempt is a mix of both. bob arum has lied the most in all of this though. he lied about floyd offering the a compromise of 2 weeks without random testing to pac in the first negotiations and the judge that moderated it came out and defended the truth.

fight hype has clear bias towards floyd from what I see from their twitter, just saying.

IronDanHamza
11-03-2011, 11:38 PM
I never could buy into Mayweather's enormous ego in demanding his own personal standard for drug testing. Being the best fighter in the world doesn't make you more authority than the boxing commission.

Mayweather has seen Pacquiao fight plenty of times. Either he thinks he can beat him, or he doesn't. Throwing obstacles to stop the fight from happening says a lot to me.

That being said, plenty of blame falls on Bob Arum for inflaming the entire situation.

Then don't make it an obstacle.

Why does he have to be an obstacle? If they accept it, it's no longer an obstacle.

Let's say, for arguments sake, Mayweather turned down Team Pacquaio's 'demand' of 10 Million Dollars per weight Lb he comes in overweight, does that make it an obstacle? Does that in result mean Team Pac are throwing obstacles because they don't want the fight?

There's a real simple solution to this obstacle;

Just accept it. If you really want the fight, accept it.

By doing so, clear your name, and get the fight you want signed.

Two things can happen to Pac in this situation;

1. Mayweather will find another way to get out the fight.
2. The fight get's signed.

But, instead of chosing a win win situation. It's instead an obstacle, an easily avoidable one, at that.

JAB5239
11-04-2011, 12:36 AM
Then don't make it an obstacle.

Why does he have to be an obstacle? If they accept it, it's no longer an obstacle.

Let's say, for arguments sake, Mayweather turned down Team Pacquaio's 'demand' of 10 Million Dollars per weight Lb he comes in overweight, does that make it an obstacle? Does that in result mean Team Pac are throwing obstacles because they don't want the fight?

There's a real simple solution to this obstacle;

Just accept it. If you really want the fight, accept it.

By doing so, clear your name, and get the fight you want signed.

Two things can happen to Pac in this situation;

1. Mayweather will find another way to get out the fight.
2. The fight get's signed.

But, instead of chosing a win win situation. It's instead an obstacle, an easily avoidable one, at that.

I think his point was that if you thought you could win than there is no reason to make an issue in the first place.....just make the fight.

JAB5239
11-04-2011, 12:36 AM
Then don't make it an obstacle.

Why does he have to be an obstacle? If they accept it, it's no longer an obstacle.

Let's say, for arguments sake, Mayweather turned down Team Pacquaio's 'demand' of 10 Million Dollars per weight Lb he comes in overweight, does that make it an obstacle? Does that in result mean Team Pac are throwing obstacles because they don't want the fight?

There's a real simple solution to this obstacle;

Just accept it. If you really want the fight, accept it.

By doing so, clear your name, and get the fight you want signed.

Two things can happen to Pac in this situation;

1. Mayweather will find another way to get out the fight.
2. The fight get's signed.

But, instead of chosing a win win situation. It's instead an obstacle, an easily avoidable one, at that.

I think his point was that if you thought you could win than there is no reason to make an issue in the first place.....just make the fight.

Scott9945
11-04-2011, 12:41 AM
Then don't make it an obstacle.

Why does he have to be an obstacle? If they accept it, it's no longer an obstacle.

Let's say, for arguments sake, Mayweather turned down Team Pacquaio's 'demand' of 10 Million Dollars per weight Lb he comes in overweight, does that make it an obstacle? Does that in result mean Team Pac are throwing obstacles because they don't want the fight?

There's a real simple solution to this obstacle;

Just accept it. If you really want the fight, accept it.

By doing so, clear your name, and get the fight you want signed.

Two things can happen to Pac in this situation;

1. Mayweather will find another way to get out the fight.
2. The fight get's signed.

But, instead of chosing a win win situation. It's instead an obstacle, an easily avoidable one, at that.

I'd have no problem if Floyd rejected that silly weight clause. It was obviously a negotiating ploy. You would hope Commissioner Floyd's testing demands were too. It was unprecedented in the history of boxing, and since then has only happened in Mayweather fights. Pacquiao did agree to a modified limit for random blood testing, which he certainly didn't have to. And when they negotiated a second time, Pacquaio was even more acquiescent. But Floyd wasn't willing to do what it took to get it down.

Maybe I'm old school this way, but like I said before, if you think you can beat him, fight him. There is no doubt the money will be there for both of them. As a fan, I hope that Manny does what he has to so this gets done. But I can certainly understand how the most popular boxer in the world doesn't want to be dictated to and is concerned about having blood drawn too close to his biggest fight.

RubenSonny
11-04-2011, 12:53 AM
I'd have no problem if Floyd rejected that silly weight clause. It was obviously a negotiating ploy. You would hope Commissioner Floyd's testing demands were too. It was unprecedented in the history of boxing, and since then has only happened in Mayweather fights. Pacquiao did agree to a modified limit for random blood testing, which he certainly didn't have to. And when they negotiated a second time, Pacquaio was even more acquiescent. But Floyd wasn't willing to do what it took to get it down.

Maybe I'm old school this way, but like I said before, if you think you can beat him, fight him. There is no doubt the money will be there for both of them. As a fan, I hope that Manny does what he has to so this gets done. But I can certainly understand how the most popular boxer in the world doesn't want to be dictated to and is concerned about having blood drawn too close to his biggest fight.

Which is the exact same situation with Pac and his weight penalties.

Manny being the most 'popular' boxer in the world is irrelevant, Mayweather is the bigger draw no matter which way you spin it.

Scott9945
11-04-2011, 01:00 AM
Which is the exact same situation with Pac and his weight penalties.

Manny being the most 'popular' boxer in the world is irrelevant, Mayweather is the bigger draw no matter which way you spin it.

The weight penalties were a joke. If they were the actual reason the fight didn't happen Pacquiao would be scorned. The only place you ever read about this alleged penalty is on boxing message boards.

And Pacquiao being the most popular boxer in the world is "irrelevant"? In a fight negotiation? You've got to be kidding me. When it comes to international appeal, there is no comparison.

RubenSonny
11-04-2011, 10:50 AM
The weight penalties were a joke. If they were the actual reason the fight didn't happen Pacquiao would be scorned. The only place you ever read about this alleged penalty is on boxing message boards.


http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=2666054

Sounds like someone is talking poo. I read this article when it came out and I wasnt on any message boards, nothing alleged about it. Don't see you saying anything about Pacquiao aka Mr. Commissioner.

Here are some more links for Pacquiaos unprecedented penalties:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4766171

http://www.boxingscene.com/de-la-hoya-vs-pacquiao-3-million-dollar-penalty-place--15647


And Pacquiao being the most popular boxer in the world is "irrelevant"? In a fight negotiation? You've got to be kidding me. When it comes to international appeal, there is no comparison.

Yes it is, the only reason why popularity would be relevant is because it usually translates into a fighters drawing power, drawing power is all that's relevant in the fight negotiation and Mayweather is the bigger draw.

IronDanHamza
11-04-2011, 12:31 PM
I think his point was that if you thought you could win than there is no reason to make an issue in the first place.....just make the fight.

The same applies for accepting them.

I mean, it's nothing. It's a blood test, it's really nothing.

And the same applies for Pacquaio's weight penalty, does it not?

"Don't make an issue, just make the fight" Right?

jabsRstiff
11-04-2011, 12:37 PM
When Floyd watches what he believes is a roided-up Manny fighting Mosley, Margarito, Cotto, etc......does he think that fighter can beat him? I seriously, seriously doubt it. Manny being on roids (not saying he is) still doesn't make him capable of beating or seriously injuring Floyd. So, Floyd shoud take the fight, beat him, and put a huge feather in his cap for deafeating the "super" P.E.D. fighter

The_Demon
11-04-2011, 12:43 PM
If floyd geuinely wanted too fight pac then it would have happened by now,its become clear the whole PEDs thing is just a smokescreen,the fight will never happen,and its a shame

IronDanHamza
11-04-2011, 12:43 PM
I'd have no problem if Floyd rejected that silly weight clause. It was obviously a negotiating ploy. You would hope Commissioner Floyd's testing demands were too. It was unprecedented in the history of boxing, and since then has only happened in Mayweather fights. Pacquiao did agree to a modified limit for random blood testing, which he certainly didn't have to. And when they negotiated a second time, Pacquaio was even more acquiescent. But Floyd wasn't willing to do what it took to get it down.

Maybe I'm old school this way, but like I said before, if you think you can beat him, fight him. There is no doubt the money will be there for both of them. As a fan, I hope that Manny does what he has to so this gets done. But I can certainly understand how the most popular boxer in the world doesn't want to be dictated to and is concerned about having blood drawn too close to his biggest fight.

Why didn't he have to? Just do it. If that what it takes.

What did he agree to? 24 days when they were asking for 14? Why would you do that?

He didn't agree to the testing being asked for which is the point.

In late 09 when they were in negotiations it was undoubtedly and obviously Pacquaio's fault to why the fight didn't happen.

Maybe I'm old school in the sense that you should do anything to get the fight you want done. You got demands? F*ck it, I'll do whatever to get you in the ring so I can get my hands on you.

It works both ways.

I can't understand that;

1. He's not the biggest draw in this fight
2. It's literally not a big issue at all having your blood taken.

As a fan, I agree, I hope Pac does what he has to do to get this fight done because it's not a big eal taking some extra testing and it ultimately is better for the sport.

IronDanHamza
11-04-2011, 12:45 PM
If floyd geuinely wanted too fight pac then it would have happened by now,its become clear the whole PEDs thing is just a smokescreen,the fight will never happen,and its a shame

Doesn't the same logic apply to Pacquaio for not accepting them?

And if it's such a bluff, then why not call it?

jabsRstiff
11-04-2011, 12:49 PM
IMO.....this is all between Mayweather and ARUM.

Neither one wants to concede to the other. If Arum (not Manny) agrees to the drug testing, then Floyd has "won". If Floyd agrees to let it slide, then he has let (in his mind) Arum dictate things.

Ultimately, Arum does not want to give it all up to Floyd. He knows if Floyd beats Manny, then a big chunk of Manny's value goes down and Floyd's goes up. Arum cannot live with that.

IronDanHamza
11-04-2011, 12:52 PM
I'd have no problem if Floyd rejected that silly weight clause.

Why would you have no problem with that? I don't understand that.

If he didn't accept that demand, and the fight in result didn't happen, it would be over something so stupid.

Can he make weight? Yes, so why on Earth wouldn't he accept it?

Same logic applies to Pacquaio agreeing to simple testing.

If it's the reason the fight doesn't happen then just do it.


The weight penalties were a joke. If they were the actual reason the fight didn't happen Pacquiao would be scorned. The only place you ever read about this alleged penalty is on boxing message boards..

That's not true at all.

The 'alleged weight penalty' was well documented and was a demand made by Team Pacquio that was accepted with no bother by Mayweather.

joseph5620
11-04-2011, 02:34 PM
Doesn't the same logic apply to Pacquaio for not accepting them?

And if it's such a bluff, then why not call it?




This is the way I see it too. If you see this as Floyd avoiding the fight because of the test you should just as easily see this as Manny avoiding the fight for refusing the test. If not, it's a double standard. Especially when both Mosley and Ortiz have taken the test without a problem with it. And other boxers(including Nonito Donaire) have gone on record saying they would have no problem taking it.

Harry Balls
11-04-2011, 02:34 PM
these two fighters are investments, rather than pure athletes.
Neither side has wanted the fight, and they have acted accordingly with ridiculous antics.

I put the blame on both camps for sure. I don't think either side wanted it more than the other.

$BloodyNate$
11-04-2011, 02:37 PM
Their both clowns. But I feel it will happen on may 5th 2012 just because their is too much money to be made for Floyd to pass up on the fight and pac has nowhere left to run since after marquez the only fights are Bradley or mike Jones and neither should be close to fighting pac, unless pac goes for floyds leftovers again and fights Ortiz.

IMDAZED
11-04-2011, 04:06 PM
I'd have no problem if Floyd rejected that silly weight clause. It was obviously a negotiating ploy. You would hope Commissioner Floyd's testing demands were too. It was unprecedented in the history of boxing, and since then has only happened in Mayweather fights. Pacquiao did agree to a modified limit for random blood testing, which he certainly didn't have to. And when they negotiated a second time, Pacquaio was even more acquiescent. But Floyd wasn't willing to do what it took to get it down.

Maybe I'm old school this way, but like I said before, if you think you can beat him, fight him. There is no doubt the money will be there for both of them. As a fan, I hope that Manny does what he has to so this gets done. But I can certainly understand how the most popular boxer in the world doesn't want to be dictated to and is concerned about having blood drawn too close to his biggest fight.
How was it obviously a negotiating ploy?

IMDAZED
11-04-2011, 04:08 PM
Why would you have no problem with that? I don't understand that.

If he didn't accept that demand, and the fight in result didn't happen, it would be over something so stupid.

Can he make weight? Yes, so why on Earth wouldn't he accept it?

Same logic applies to Pacquaio agreeing to simple testing.

If it's the reason the fight doesn't happen then just do it.




That's not true at all.

The 'alleged weight penalty' was well documented and was a demand made by Team Pacquio that was accepted with no bother by Mayweather.
I don't know what he's talking about there. It was as real as Pacquiao choosing the ring, gloves, glove size, etc. People just believe what they want.

JAB5239
11-04-2011, 07:46 PM
The same applies for accepting them.

I mean, it's nothing. It's a blood test, it's really nothing.

And the same applies for Pacquaio's weight penalty, does it not?

"Don't make an issue, just make the fight" Right?

Right. And that's why it is both their faults for this fight taking so long to happen.

Scott9945
11-04-2011, 08:19 PM
Why didn't he have to? Just do it. If that what it takes.

What did he agree to? 24 days when they were asking for 14? Why would you do that?

He didn't agree to the testing being asked for which is the point.

In late 09 when they were in negotiations it was undoubtedly and obviously Pacquaio's fault to why the fight didn't happen.

Maybe I'm old school in the sense that you should do anything to get the fight you want done. You got demands? F*ck it, I'll do whatever to get you in the ring so I can get my hands on you.

It works both ways.

I can't understand that;

1. He's not the biggest draw in this fight
2. It's literally not a big issue at all having your blood taken.

As a fan, I agree, I hope Pac does what he has to do to get this fight done because it's not a big eal taking some extra testing and it ultimately is better for the sport.


Pacquiao agreed to the strictest drug testing ever imposed (at that time) on a title fight in the US. All he has to do is comply with the NSAC rules. You don't think he should be insulted to have these conditions thrown on him based on Floyd's lowlife father's accusations? It may not be a big issue to you, but having blood drawn too close to a fight in discomforting to some fighters. Yet he still agreed to comply and also give blood immediately after the fight. Very little margin for cheating in that period.

The two fighters are equal in drawing power, IMO. Floyd may have an edge in PPV numbers, but Pacquaio has proven he can fill a stadium, while Floyd always fights in the comfort of the MGM Grand Arena. And Pacquiao has more international appeal which makes a big difference in a fight of this magnitude. Mayweather understands this which is why they agreed to an even money split.

The bottom line is that you are berating Pacquiao for not doing what it takes to make the fight, while Floyd clearly isn't. Double standard much? If Floyd was truly confident he could beat Manny, he'd get it done already.

Scott9945
11-04-2011, 08:28 PM
Why would you have no problem with that? I don't understand that.

If he didn't accept that demand, and the fight in result didn't happen, it would be over something so stupid.

Can he make weight? Yes, so why on Earth wouldn't he accept it?

Same logic applies to Pacquaio agreeing to simple testing.

If it's the reason the fight doesn't happen then just do it.

That's not true at all.

The 'alleged weight penalty' was well documented and was a demand made by Team Pacquio that was accepted with no bother by Mayweather.


If Pacquiao didn't take the fight because of the weight demand, all the wrath would fall on him. I agree that it is ridiculous. But the two clauses are hardly the same. There is a rule that you have to make the agreed upon weight. Floyd totally exploited it when he screwed over Marquez for what was a relatively meager penalty. That is documented.


Pacquiao has never failed a drug test and still agreed to enhanced testing. He just didn't bend over and allow Mayweather to dictate the exact terms. Both these clauses were negotiating points and should have been modified to reach an agreement. I wasn't in the meetings, but I'm confident that Pacquaio would have dropped the weight demand if Floyd dropped the drug testing demand. It's plainly obvious that Floyd has had no problem making 147 anyway, so it's no concession that he'd agree to it.

IronDanHamza
11-04-2011, 08:37 PM
Pacquiao agreed to the strictest drug testing ever imposed (at that time) on a title fight in the US. All he has to do is comply with the NSAC rules. You don't think he should be insulted to have these conditions thrown on him based on Floyd's lowlife father's accusations? It may not be a big issue to you, but having blood drawn too close to a fight in discomforting to some fighters. Yet he still agreed to comply and also give blood immediately after the fight. Very little margin for cheating in that period.

The two fighters are equal in drawing power, IMO. Floyd may have an edge in PPV numbers, but Pacquaio has proven he can fill a stadium, while Floyd always fights in the comfort of the MGM Grand Arena. And Pacquiao has more international appeal which makes a big difference in a fight of this magnitude. Mayweather understands this which is why they agreed to an even money split.

The bottom line is that you are berating Pacquiao for not doing what it takes to make the fight, while Floyd clearly isn't. Double standard much? If Floyd was truly confident he could beat Manny, he'd get it done already.

And if Pacquaio wanted the fight, he'd accept the testing. It works both ways in that regard.

Where's the double standard?

I'm berating Pacquaio for not doing a simple procedure that would have ultimately got the fight signed. And is the sole reason the fight fell through the first time around.

I critisize Mayweather for the second time round, in which he didn't pull his weight the fight. With extended vacations and idiocy. On the other hand, Team Pacquaio didn't exactly pull their weight either at that time.

I have stated that time and time again and even in this thread that both are to blame.

No I don't think Pac should be insulted by being asked to do extra drug testing at all. Nor do I expect Mayweather to be insulted by over the top weight penalties.

What I do absolutely expect is for a fighter to accept utterly simple demands being asked for him to make a fight happen. Especially a fight of this magnitude.

It doesn't matter what he's willing to do. The fact is he refused to do what was being asked of him, something so simple. Which in result stopped the fight from happening.

If it was something outrageous I would understand but it's genuinely not a big deal.

IronDanHamza
11-04-2011, 08:45 PM
If Pacquiao didn't take the fight because of the weight demand, all the wrath would fall on him. I agree that it is ridiculous. But the two clauses are hardly the same. There is a rule that you have to make the agreed upon weight. Floyd totally exploited it when he screwed over Marquez for what was a relatively meager penalty. That is documented.

They are both demands that are outside of the comission's rules and both very simple asks.

One accepted, the other didn't.

[Pacquiao has never failed a drug test and still agreed to enhanced testing. He just didn't bend over and allow Mayweather to dictate the exact terms. Both these clauses were negotiating points and should have been modified to reach an agreement. I wasn't in the meetings, but I'm confident that Pacquaio would have dropped the weight demand if Floyd dropped the drug testing demand. It's plainly obvious that Floyd has had no problem making 147 anyway, so it's no concession that he'd agree to it.

Exactly. He hasn't failed a drug test. So he shouldn't have a problem with doing a few more.

It's not about being dictated to, it's about just doing it and getting on with it.

If that's what it takes to get the fight done then just do it.

Well I disagree I don't think he would. And that's beside the point anway. The fact is they both asked for specific things, both weren't big deals, and both should have been accepted if that's what it takes.

Yeah Floyd has no problem making 147. And as you said, Pac has never failed a drug test.

Conclusion;

Accept everything and let's fight.

NChristo
11-04-2011, 09:11 PM
Got bored of it a long time a go, hurrah if it happens, don't care if it doesn't.

Been too many big fights that should of been made but didn't in the past this is no exception and don't really feel any different about it compared to those fights despite the magnitude of it.

RubenSonny
11-05-2011, 06:25 AM
The two fighters are equal in drawing power, IMO. Floyd may have an edge in PPV numbers, but Pacquaio has proven he can fill a stadium, while Floyd always fights in the comfort of the MGM Grand Arena. And Pacquiao has more international appeal which makes a big difference in a fight of this magnitude. Mayweather understands this which is why they agreed to an even money split.


Actually it's not a matter of opinion. Mayweathers gates are all better than Pacquiaos, especially when you compare the stadium numbers to Mayweathers last 2 fights, which is all that matters. Pacquiao's international numbers aren't better than Mayweathers either.

The bottom line is that you are berating Pacquiao for not doing what it takes to make the fight, while Floyd clearly isn't. Double standard much? If Floyd was truly confident he could beat Manny, he'd get it done already.

Maybe, you should read the comments in this thread again.

If Pacquiao didn't take the fight because of the weight demand, all the wrath would fall on him. I agree that it is ridiculous. But the two clauses are hardly the same. There is a rule that you have to make the agreed upon weight. Floyd totally exploited it when he screwed over Marquez for what was a relatively meager penalty. That is documented.




And what was the Mr. Commissioner aka Pacquiaos excuse versus Morales, Cotto and DLH.

Scott9945
11-05-2011, 10:56 AM
And what was the Mr. Commissioner aka Pacquiaos excuse versus Morales, Cotto and DLH.

I'm generally against catchweights, but his opponents agreed to the contracts. There was no catchweight for DLH. There was one for Margarito though. Comparing catchweights to drug testing is apples and oranges anyways.

RubenSonny
11-05-2011, 12:08 PM
I'm generally against catchweights, but his opponents agreed to the contracts. There was no catchweight for DLH. There was one for Margarito though. Comparing catchweights to drug testing is apples and oranges anyways.

Actually I was referring to the weight penalties, and its not apples and oranges, you were criticizing Mayweather for making unprecedented demands beyond commission rules and Pacquiao has been guilty of the exact same thing for years now. Pacquiao could easily agree to the contract, and it wouldn't be any different from those examples Not to mention DLH was by far the bigger draw at the time of their fight and agreed to Pacquiaos unprecedented (save from his own fights) demands.

IMDAZED
11-05-2011, 12:23 PM
I'm generally against catchweights, but his opponents agreed to the contracts. There was no catchweight for DLH. There was one for Margarito though. Comparing catchweights to drug testing is apples and oranges anyways.

Catchweights maybe but for Morales, Margarito, De La Hoya, Mayweather (and who knows who else), Pacquiao has implemented his own weight penalty fees which are also under the juridisction of the residing commission. Can't have it both ways.

Scott9945
11-05-2011, 12:56 PM
Actually I was referring to the weight penalties, and its not apples and oranges, you were criticizing Mayweather for making unprecedented demands beyond commission rules and Pacquiao has been guilty of the exact same thing for years now. Pacquiao could easily agree to the contract, and it wouldn't be any different from those examples Not to mention DLH was by far the bigger draw at the time of their fight and agreed to Pacquiaos unprecedented (save from his own fights) demands.

Catchweights are hardly unprecedented. Ray Leonard somehow won a lightheavyweight title at 167 lbs about 25 years ago. I'm sure some research would reveal many cases before that.

And what demands did De La Hoya have to agree to, other than the 147 lb weight limit? It was Oscar's plan to drop down to welter way before he signed to fight Pacquiao. If he did have penalty clauses, it was likely to protect Pacquiao from being physically overmatched against a fighter who was at least two weight classes heavier. Oscar could make at least 10 million for fighting anyone. He was the one who dictated terms.

You can chide Pacquiao for the weight clauses. I personally thought the one against Cotto was chickenspit. And if you look at next weeks fight, it is Pacquiao who is submitting to a 144 lb catchweight. But catchweights and drug testing are two entirely different issues, even if it is more convenient to just dismiss them as equal.

Scott9945
11-05-2011, 12:58 PM
Catchweights maybe but for Morales, Margarito, De La Hoya, Mayweather (and who knows who else), Pacquiao has implemented his own weight penalty fees which are also under the juridisction of the residing commission. Can't have it both ways.

Actually I agree. Drop the excessive weight penalties and the enhanced drug testing, and lets just see who is the better fighter at welterweight.

Scott9945
11-05-2011, 01:18 PM
either your nuts an idiot or a retard. That little turd has a history of coming up with funny business before signing a contract. he did that to one of my personal favorites erik morales. i never forgave the punk for that. That aint just message board stuff. i think both are acting like divas but at least mayweather never wavered and stayed consistent. little pacmans terms are all over the place.

Mucho gusto. :wave:

Now please explain how Pacquiao's terms are "all over the place". Do the weight limits and/or penalties fluctuate erratically?

IronDanHamza
11-05-2011, 03:01 PM
Actually I agree. Drop the excessive weight penalties and the enhanced drug testing, and lets just see who is the better fighter at welterweight.

Or better yet, accept the excessive weight penalties and enhanced drug testing and let's see who the better fighter is at Welterweight.

IronDanHamza
11-05-2011, 03:05 PM
But catchweights and drug testing are two entirely different issues, even if it is more convenient to just dismiss them as equal.

Catchweight are.

But your own designed weight penalties? They are the same.

Both are outside of the comission.

Both are being personally asked for by their camps.

And most importantly, both are simple ask's. And should be accepted.

However, one was accepted, the other wasn't.

And these are stone cold facts. And why this is dismissed is beyond me because it's the sole reason the fight fell through in late 09.

RubenSonny
11-05-2011, 03:25 PM
Catchweights are hardly unprecedented. Ray Leonard somehow won a lightheavyweight title at 167 lbs about 25 years ago. I'm sure some research would reveal many cases before that.


Are you even reading my posts, I said weight penalties not catchweights, I never said anything about catchweights. He set the precedent for his weight penalties in the first Morales rematch.

And what demands did De La Hoya have to agree to, other than the 147 lb weight limit? It was Oscar's plan to drop down to welter way before he signed to fight Pacquiao. If he did have penalty clauses, it was likely to protect Pacquiao from being physically overmatched against a fighter who was at least two weight classes heavier. Oscar could make at least 10 million for fighting anyone. He was the one who dictated terms.


Already supplied in a link showing that Pacquiao demanded the weight penalties against DLH but you keep ignoring my points.

You can chide Pacquiao for the weight clauses. I personally thought the one against Cotto was chickenspit. And if you look at next weeks fight, it is Pacquiao who is submitting to a 144 lb catchweight. But catchweights and drug testing are two entirely different issues, even if it is more convenient to just dismiss them as equal.

Again I didn't say anything about catchweights.

IMDAZED
11-05-2011, 03:38 PM
Actually I agree. Drop the excessive weight penalties and the enhanced drug testing, and lets just see who is the better fighter at welterweight.

It appears you only agree because there is little defense for the nonsensical behavior of the Pacquiao camp. Regardless, it's irrelevant. One fighter agreed with an "excessive" demand while the other disagreed for reasons that changed from day to day. That's the bottom line. It isn't hard to see who you pin the blame on but I guess some people just can't bring themselves to the truth.

IMDAZED
11-05-2011, 03:43 PM
Catchweights are hardly unprecedented. Ray Leonard somehow won a lightheavyweight title at 167 lbs about 25 years ago. I'm sure some research would reveal many cases before that.

And what demands did De La Hoya have to agree to, other than the 147 lb weight limit? It was Oscar's plan to drop down to welter way before he signed to fight Pacquiao. If he did have penalty clauses, it was likely to protect Pacquiao from being physically overmatched against a fighter who was at least two weight classes heavier. Oscar could make at least 10 million for fighting anyone. He was the one who dictated terms.

You can chide Pacquiao for the weight clauses. I personally thought the one against Cotto was chickenspit. And if you look at next weeks fight, it is Pacquiao who is submitting to a 144 lb catchweight. But catchweights and drug testing are two entirely different issues, even if it is more convenient to just dismiss them as equal.

You go from saying weight penalty fines are excessive to providing excu...reasons why Pacquiao's are plausible. Tell us why it was ok for Pacquiao to institute a weight penalty on Erik Morales? Since apparently it's ok to make up reasons for why he did it against Oscar? To protect himself, according to your post. Floyd Mayweather would like a word with you, bud.

Scott9945
11-05-2011, 04:05 PM
Catchweight are.

But your own designed weight penalties? They are the same.

Both are outside of the comission.

Both are being personally asked for by their camps.

And most importantly, both are simple ask's. And should be accepted.

However, one was accepted, the other wasn't.

And these are stone cold facts. And why this is dismissed is beyond me because it's the sole reason the fight fell through in late 09.


I'm going to respond to just your post rather than every other one saying basically the same thing.

The two of us clearly see this from opposite perspectives. You say that they both should say yes. I say they both should say no. I wouldn't blame Floyd for refusing the excessive penalty fees, and I don't blame Pacquaio for balking at random testing that could come too close to the fight for his comfort.

I'm not going over this anymore as we're not likely to find any middle ground and I don't want to become redundant.

IronDanHamza
11-05-2011, 05:44 PM
I'm going to respond to just your post rather than every other one saying basically the same thing.

The two of us clearly see this from opposite perspectives. You say that they both should say yes. I say they both should say no. I wouldn't blame Floyd for refusing the excessive penalty fees, and I don't blame Pacquaio for balking at random testing that could come too close to the fight for his comfort.

I'm not going over this anymore as we're not likely to find any middle ground and I don't want to become redundant.

The problem is there's a big consequence if they both say no. As opposed to if they both say yes.

Both saying no doesn't get the fight done. Or in this case evidently one of the two saying no doesn't get the fight done.

On the flipside, if both say yes then the fight infact, does get done.

So I'd rather them both just say yes.

IronDanHamza
11-05-2011, 05:48 PM
It appears you only agree because there is little defense for the nonsensical behavior of the Pacquiao camp. Regardless, it's irrelevant. One fighter agreed with an "excessive" demand while the other disagreed for reasons that changed from day to day. That's the bottom line. It isn't hard to see who you pin the blame on but I guess some people just can't bring themselves to the truth.

Precisely.

I can't see how it can be seen any other way.