View Full Version : How Many ATG'S Are There ?


McGoorty
11-02-2011, 05:24 AM
HOW MANY ATG'S ARE THERE ??? -- I'm talking 1719 to 2000 A.D.This question bugs me, some posters seem to think maybe 30 to 50, some maybe 100. I think that a sport that has been around for 3 centuries has Many, many ATG's. The very question seems very important to me, just think of fighters who don't make some lists, they were awesome fighters, really fantastic fighters, but forgotten. Why is this ???.. when people who saw them and raved on about fighters who, once very famous, now seem to be forgotten.:killyou:

McGoorty
11-02-2011, 06:27 AM
For instance,...Is Sammy Mandell Great ????????????

McGoorty
11-02-2011, 06:28 AM
Jem Belcher ??

McGoorty
11-02-2011, 06:29 AM
Or let's say Owen Moran ???.... can Darcy and Mike Gibbons both be GREAT ?????

IronDanHamza
11-02-2011, 01:38 PM
Sammy Mandell was a very good fighter but I'm not sure he's an ATG. Hmmm, don't know.

It all really depends on how strict your ranking is in terms of who and who isn't an ATG. Some are much less strict than others, some on the other hand feel only the very elite are ATG fighters.

After all, the term 'All Time Great' surely has to be a difficult title to attain.

One of the ATG's being a quote that is surely prestigous and difficult to be said about someone.

Anyway, there's atleast 100 ATG's. I don't how much around there is but there is atleast 100. IMO.

The_Demon
11-02-2011, 01:43 PM
Id say between 120-150 legit ATG's,but it really is a tough question too answer,it all depends on your criteria and how strict you are with your rankings

McGoorty
11-02-2011, 02:32 PM
Sammy Mandell was a very good fighter but I'm not sure he's an ATG. Hmmm, don't know.

It all really depends on how strict your ranking is in terms of who and who isn't an ATG. Some are much less strict than others, some on the other hand feel only the very elite are ATG fighters.

After all, the term 'All Time Great' surely has to be a difficult title to attain.

One of the ATG's being a quote that is surely prestigous and difficult to be said about someone.

Anyway, there's atleast 100 ATG's. I don't how much around there is but there is atleast 100. IMO.
Mandell was the best LW for at least a couple of years, he was just an example. The idea has come about where a couple of guys told me that Darcy can only be an ATG if Mike Gibbons isn't, I vehemently disagree on that,.... they are both ATG's for sure,... maybe even Tommy, Mike's brother. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The way I see it, every era has a few fighters from each division that are ATG's... the sport began being recorded in the late 1600's, by 1719, we have our 1st true ATG, James Figg, also an ATG Cudgeler and swordsman, the next certainty is Jack Broughton, incidentally, Broughton has a claim as GOAT bare-knuckler, his record defies belief for such a rugged era, after Broughton there are at least a dozen ATG's up to 1800....... the best among them maybe the great mendoza..... the Broughton era ends in 1824 or thereabouts...... and there are 30 legendary names there at least,... Molineaux and Richmond, former slaves made good. -------------------------------------------------------------------- This is before the dawn of the great American fighters,... the first genuine US champion was Tom Molineaux,,,,,,,, LPRR has many more great names as they are closer in time to us,... there are maybe 50 greats there alone, so before the modern gloved era kicks in there are near to at least 80 great fighters,.... like our time, very hard to separate many of them, with just the most enduring names known to most here. Take that great iron man of Broughtons time, he was known to all as Buckhorse... this guy was amazing, there was Tom Tough, the prototype American croucher/slugger............ a kind of bionic LaMotta, and I haven't even gotten to John L. Sullivan. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes Dan, there are mega-greats and more down to earth ATG's....... and then lesser greats,,,,,,,, the majority of the world champions. I know I'm opening a can of worms, but we need to talk about it. We can't just write some guys off, it only takes one guy who knows his stuff to counter half of your own choices, and maybe end up with only 20 names,... well that's a bit boring at the least, as I have shown here. I think I have proved that the whole idea of lists across big chunks of time are a pointless (almost ) exercise,... and always prone to at least a bit of personal preferance....... Either there are only 10 or 20 greats,... or there are in excess of 150.. easy...... Marquis of Queensbury maybe 130 even,.... it's hard to include one brilliant fighter and exclude two who are arguably as good if not better, I for one have some flexibility on the subject.

McGoorty
11-02-2011, 02:37 PM
Id say between 120-150 legit ATG's,but it really is a tough question too answer,it all depends on your criteria and how strict you are with your rankings
I don't think anybody can just have a hard and fast rule on this, the endless debate on ATG lists here shows what I mean.... if you count up all the "top 100" fighters on this forum, we don't come up with 100 names...... more like 1000, especially with guys like our friend Trojansbaby putting in their Threepence worth.

McGoorty
11-02-2011, 03:08 PM
Greatest1942, what is your opinion on this sticky subject ????

New England
11-02-2011, 03:36 PM
honestly, i used to scoff at the term

just scoff

scoff scoff scoff, lol.


but i do understand its value as a distinction for places like this one.

it's a numbers thing, i think, for most.
you can only ahve so many fighters who are "beyond other greats"


to me a great fighter is a great fighter. if he fights great and has done great things in boxing he's a great fighter


an ATG, for me anyway, is somebody in the top 100

also, i feel that a true "ATG" must be at least competative with other great fighters of his size.