View Full Version : Penn gave Diaz a very good fight!


led
11-01-2011, 09:51 PM
But what if Nick fought a pre-Edgar Penn fighter. You think it is still the same result?

King of Sting
11-01-2011, 10:30 PM
But what if Nick fought a pre-Edgar Penn fighter. You think it is still the same result?Interesting question. Penn never amazed me at 170. He was solid at 170, but, he wasn't the fearsome force that he was at lightweight.

B.J's workrate and the fact that he was the smaller guy, those two things made him made to order for someone like Diaz.

To answer the thread question, nah, I don't think that version of B.J. would've beaten Diaz, outside of a puncher's chance

B.J's standup has never really significantly imroved through the years. How the f**k did he not have an answer for Diaz's pawing lazy jabs.

Boxingtech718v2
11-01-2011, 10:40 PM
Hell no Penn been washed up for a long time now. You can tell by his mobility being so much less than it once was. Diaz is so grossly overrated though it's funny. When GSP pulls an easy GSP victory against Diaz people will be crying foul. For this one fight I would love to see GSP really try his best to hurt a guy. Never liked Diaz big mouth and crappy attitude.

$BloodyNate$
11-01-2011, 11:29 PM
Yes. I have always loved diaz but I didn't think he would have advanced enough to beat a top 5 ww like when he last was there but he showed the world solid boxing training with pro boxers, reach and range can take u to the top in mma. I thought Penn was a better boxer but diaz He's legit and all those things plus his bjj and cardio will give gsp huge problems and where him down just like bj. Diaz and Edgar beat any bj because bj has always had the same problem. Edgar wore him out with speed and diaz with reach and cardio. With excellent striking that wore bj down instead of him wearing them down like every other opponent he whopped.

Diaz right now at this level is terrible match up for Penn. And for gsp too since diaz pace on the feet and on the ground the way he keeps attacking with put gsp in all kinds of risky spots.

led
11-01-2011, 11:31 PM
B.J's standup has never really significantly imroved through the years. How the f**k did he not have an answer for Diaz's pawing lazy jabs.

What? Penn's defense in Penn's stand up is his chin.

Hell no Penn been washed up for a long time now. You can tell by his mobility being so much less than it once was. Diaz is so grossly overrated though it's funny. When GSP pulls an easy GSP victory against Diaz people will be crying foul. For this one fight I would love to see GSP really try his best to hurt a guy. Never liked Diaz big mouth and crappy attitude.

It OT. but yes, Diaz is kinda overrated to say he will beat GSP. As I said Diaz's defense is his chin (see his fight against Cyborg lol). GSP wont go for knockdown but a takedown.

led
11-01-2011, 11:35 PM
Yes. I have always loved diaz but I didn't think he would have advanced enough to beat a top 5 ww like when he last was there but he showed the world solid boxing training with pro boxers, reach and range can take u to the top in mma. I thought Penn was a better boxer but diaz He's legit and all those things plus his bjj and cardio will give gsp huge problems and where him down just like bj. Diaz and Edgar beat any bj because bj has always had the same problem. Edgar wore him out with speed and diaz with reach and cardio. With excellent striking that wore bj down instead of him wearing them down like every other opponent he whopped.

Diaz right now at this level is terrible match up for Penn. And for gsp too since diaz pace on the feet and on the ground the way he keeps attacking with put gsp in all kinds of risky spots.

GSP again? I dont see GSP fighting fighting toe-to-toe against Diaz. Also, Diaz is a good striker. But his defense especially against leg kicks...IDK.

N!GGALAS CAGE
11-01-2011, 11:37 PM
Diaz is just all wrong stylistically for a guy like Penn.

Penn has good boxing and BJJ, but Diaz happens to be better at both. Not to mention the huge difference in gas tanks and workrate.

A prime Penn would have looked just as bad against Diaz.

If they fought at 155, it would of been more competitive especially in the early rounds, but Diaz would have still put a beating on him.

$BloodyNate$
11-02-2011, 12:11 AM
GSP again? I dont see GSP fighting fighting toe-to-toe against Diaz. Also, Diaz is a good striker. But his defense especially against leg kicks...IDK.

The thing is gsp has never fought anybody like diaz before with his reach and height except the closest would be fitch who's lengthy to but gsp is a bigger was baddet version of fitch tho fitch is more exciting then gsp currently imo but diaz is a much better boxer and yeah gsp could try leg kicks but that means being in striking range for diaz long arms to punch him. And gsp has never fought somebody as good as diaz off his back. I'd say in straight bjj bj and shields would outgrapple diaz, but in mma on their backs bj and shields aren't as good off their backs as they are dominant on top. Where diaz isn't a top guy he keeps attacking with submissions from bottom still making gsp work out of them if hes on top. And diaz has them longs arms and legs which will make them much harder to fight out of
Diaz won't fold or wear down after 3 rounds either he'll be going the same pace nonstop attacking on the feet and ground for 5 rounds so really the question is can gsp survive diaz punches on thee feet and nonstop submission attempts for 5 rounds while keeping dominant positions and hoping that's enough. Chance are I think hell get caught eventually. .

Marchegiano
11-02-2011, 12:18 AM
The whole time the fight was going on I kept thinking about Frankie. It'd be a real treat to see Frankie take on Nick. Open weight. Won't never happen, but stylistically it'd be interesting, and dramatically it'd be intensely exciting. ....ah Pride....

I'm not sure a prime BJ loses. I'm not saying he wins, but wouldn't a tired prime BJ have more then a tired old BJ?

led
11-02-2011, 12:40 AM
The thing is gsp has never fought anybody like diaz before with his reach and height except the closest would be fitch who's lengthy to but gsp is a bigger was baddet version of fitch tho fitch is more exciting then gsp currently imo but diaz is a much better boxer and yeah gsp could try leg kicks but that means being in striking range for diaz long arms to punch him. And gsp has never fought somebody as good as diaz off his back. I'd say in straight bjj bj and shields would outgrapple diaz, but in mma on their backs bj and shields aren't as good off their backs as they are dominant on top. Where diaz isn't a top guy he keeps attacking with submissions from bottom still making gsp work out of them if hes on top. And diaz has them longs arms and legs which will make them much harder to fight out of
Diaz won't fold or wear down after 3 rounds either he'll be going the same pace nonstop attacking on the feet and ground for 5 rounds so really the question is can gsp survive diaz punches on thee feet and nonstop submission attempts for 5 rounds while keeping dominant positions and hoping that's enough. Chance are I think hell get caught eventually. .

Cyborg Santos is 5.10 (i suppose) and he gave Diaz some trouble. Anyway, I dont discount Diaz its just I gave GSP the edge over him.

ƒallenloki
11-02-2011, 03:28 AM
I think Nick is just a bad style match up for BJ Penn. Wouldn't make a difference.

SLIMY RAT
11-02-2011, 06:40 AM
Erm Penn clearly won the first round

Then gassed like usual (the body shots made it even worse)

Was similar vs fitch.. he was better but the ran out of steam and got destroyed in the third.

A younger Penn probably has more in the tank and in a 3 rounder i could quite easily see him pulling out a win.

Big BRICKS
11-02-2011, 10:28 AM
BJ used to be a killer on the ground. He tried to box Diaz, like he's been doing with everyone. It seems like he kind of abandoned his ground game a little bit and that's what helped him get where he was.

Maybe if he was in his prime he could beat Diaz.

ƒallenloki
11-02-2011, 01:37 PM
BJ used to be a killer on the ground. He tried to box Diaz, like he's been doing with everyone. It seems like he kind of abandoned his ground game a little bit and that's what helped him get where he was.

Maybe if he was in his prime he could beat Diaz.

He's still a great top side grappler, but it's hard to do well against a grappler of Nick's caliber.

...and for those talking about BJ Penn being shot, he isn't.

F l i c k e r
11-02-2011, 03:21 PM
I thought the same thing after the fight. The BJ Penn that beat the living daylights out of Sanchez would have gave Nick hell.


Penn didn't look in top shape against Nick. He looked like the old BJ who was chubby/flabby. Is it the weight difference? Maybe, I don't know. But Penn wasn't in top shape.

Would Nick still win? I think so but Penn would have done a load more damage than what he did if he came like the bat out of hell he was against Diego Sanchez.

ƒallenloki
11-02-2011, 05:29 PM
I thought the same thing after the fight. The BJ Penn that beat the living daylights out of Sanchez would have gave Nick hell.


Penn didn't look in top shape against Nick. He looked like the old BJ who was chubby/flabby. Is it the weight difference? Maybe, I don't know. But Penn wasn't in top shape.

Would Nick still win? I think so but Penn would have done a load more damage than what he did if he came like the bat out of hell he was against Diego Sanchez.

MMAth doesn't work...

Plus, the Sanchez fight was 6 years ago.

F l i c k e r
11-02-2011, 06:13 PM
MMAth doesn't work...

Plus, the Sanchez fight was 6 years ago.


lol, nah. I'm saying that if he would have come in shape and with that same aggressive mind set. He'd probably give Nick hell.

Instead he seemed to try to make Nick miss rather than lay on the punishment.

He wasn't really in shape though. Two fights ago, BJ looks ripped and in shape. This fight, he looked soft and pudgy.

kaps
11-03-2011, 12:14 PM
Everyone forgets that Penn drew with Fitch just a few months back. Now he's past it and washed up? GTFO...

Sn1
11-03-2011, 12:28 PM
MMAth doesn't work...

Plus, the Sanchez fight was 6 years ago.Penn vs Sanchez was Dec 2009

Penn might of won a round against Diaz but does anyone really think he looked "on form" that night? terrible gameplan, if he even had one, looked small, fat and clueless, maybe he is done, maybe he isnt. but either way, he needs to go soul searching cause all this "id rather focus on fighting than conditioning" is wearing thin, especially when it looks like most of his losses are directly related to that.

if he is gonna lose, he should at least make a go of it :)

ƒallenloki
11-03-2011, 02:38 PM
Penn vs Sanchez was Dec 2009

Penn might of won a round against Diaz but does anyone really think he looked "on form" that night? terrible gameplan, if he even had one, looked small, fat and clueless, maybe he is done, maybe he isnt. but either way, he needs to go soul searching cause all this "id rather focus on fighting than conditioning" is wearing thin, especially when it looks like most of his losses are directly related to that.

if he is gonna lose, he should at least make a go of it :)

He was talking about the Diaz-Sanchez fight, I think.

Good post, though... He's got two losses to the champs at 155 and 170. It's a bit of a no man's land. Also, he should probably just retire. He's too lazy to get in shape and cut to 155, but he's also not disciplined to put on proper weight and fight at 170.

F l i c k e r
11-03-2011, 04:05 PM
Everyone forgets that Penn drew with Fitch just a few months back. Now he's past it and washed up? GTFO...

I just think he wasn't in shape. He probably still would have loss but we have seen better from Penn. Penn at least lets his hands go. This fight, he just took it deep.

He was talking about the Diaz-Sanchez fight, I think.

Nah. I'm talking about Penn-Sanchez.

But I meant the mentality he had in that fight. He came to deliver the punishment. This fight looked like Penn was just out there to collect a check.

dough401
11-03-2011, 04:40 PM
Hell no Penn been washed up for a long time now. You can tell by his mobility being so much less than it once was. Diaz is so grossly overrated though it's funny. When GSP pulls an easy GSP victory against Diaz people will be crying foul. For this one fight I would love to see GSP really try his best to hurt a guy. Never liked Diaz big mouth and crappy attitude.

I hear ya on the mobilty issue for Penn but he should never really been @170 ever, if u see him before a fight at that weight he is eating like an animal to put on the weight and as for GSP i know he is good at what he does but you cant believe he gonna walk through Diaz for real its good for attention if thats what u were looking for but gotta give the guy credit that kid is a beast@170..

Kimo
11-03-2011, 08:31 PM
I love BJ Penn, probably my favourite fighter in the UFC.

But he doesn't play the game. Every successfull fighter in mma nowadays goes through some sort of rigorous strength and conditioning program.

The proof is in the pudding, look at the fights where he had Marinovic in his camp, Penn was in SICK shape against Diego Sanchez.

His cardio needs to be at a top level, everybody's fighting is better without fatigue. But not only that, he needs S&C for his explosiveness.

You saw clearly against Diaz that Penn was doing well with his boxing until a point where the pace became too high for him. He also lacked serious explosiveness to be able to take Diaz down when the going got tough, which isn't rocket science Diaz lacks TDD. If he was in great shape, he could've created a nice mix of boxing and takedowns against Diaz, taking a decision.

Penn is just not willing to do it, despite having clear evidence of success and failure in his career. It's a shame.