View Full Version : Rocky Marciano is very overrated IMO


Tha Greatest
11-03-2005, 10:36 PM
Honestly...

This guy was not great...maybe in his era...

but he was Overrated!

Especially his fight with Joe Louis...Joe Louis was like a OLD OLD OLD Grandpa only fighting to pay off his taxes! He didn't want to fight...

It took Marciano 9 whole ****in rounds to KO him?

Damn...

Joe Louis would DESTROY Marciano his prime..

Da Iceman
11-03-2005, 10:39 PM
joe might win a decision not a ko

Skydog
11-03-2005, 10:48 PM
If you've actually seen their fight, Louis still gave Marciano some trouble with his jab. If you've seen Marciano's KO's and Louis's KO's, Louis's are done in a grand, perfect fashion, while Marciano's are wild, powerful punches that land good.

Da Iceman
11-03-2005, 10:50 PM
ive seen some of both but joe still couldnt hurt him

Dempsey 1919
11-03-2005, 11:00 PM
yes. he is very overrated. he is not even a heavyweight. he is a 185 pound cruiserweight. any good 200+ pound fighter in their prime would crush him!

Da Iceman
11-03-2005, 11:04 PM
don ****ell didnt

Dempsey 1919
11-03-2005, 11:12 PM
don ****ell then probably is a bum, or not a natural 200+pounds or both.

Da Iceman
11-03-2005, 11:14 PM
u just hatin on the rock

Dempsey 1919
11-03-2005, 11:52 PM
name one natural 200+pound fighter with some skill who he beat? exactly none.

TuPrincipe
11-04-2005, 01:49 AM
He was intimidating to every opponent he faced. He had so much power that he could hurt your shoulders with one single punch.

Love him or hate him he's undefeated and one of the best fighters of all time. Sure he was reckless and didn't appear to have much skill, but he was 185 pounds fighting against guys that outweighed him by at least 15 pounds. That is pretty incredible when you think about it.

fistlegend
11-04-2005, 02:17 AM
well, he lacked skill but either way he was a very good fighter had alot of power

M26
11-04-2005, 12:07 PM
Rocky Marciano had the unfortune to be fighting during a weak era. But this is not to say Marciano is overrated.

People often say "he would be too small", "he would be outweighed" or "he was too slow" when givng reasons for why Marciano would get licked by fighters of other eras. But this is what people said when Marciano was fighting as well! He was thought of as a slow, untalented and short slugger with no decent chance of becoming good, much less champion. I guess he proved them wrong...

Every time he fought somebody good, the public expected him to lose. Against Rex Layne, against Harry Matthews, against Joe Louis and against Jersey Joe Walcott. He defeated them all by ko. Some of his foes were past their primes, but this is not to say that they were bums!

Joe Louis had won his last eight fights before getting stopped by Marciano.

Jersey Joe Walcott fought the fight of his life against Marciano, and proved he was a slick, skilled and powerful foe even at 38.

Ezzard Charles was 32 and still a very good fighter when he met Marciano. Maybe fading, but he had alot of experience with more than 100 profights, and he still had the desire for the game at this point.

Archie Moore was younger than his age would suggest when fighting Marciano. After getting beaten badly by Rocky, he kept fighting for eight more years, earning a 43-3-2 record!

And in the beginning of his career, he was often thrown in the ring against much more experienced fighters. This is because he didn't have a manager for the first part of his career. So he was depending on other fighters managers to get fights. By this, he was often used as a "sitting duck" for managers trying to build their fighters. For instance, he fought undefeated Eddie Ross (26-0 with 23kos) in his fifth fight. It only took him 1 minute to dispatch of Ross.

Marciano was a fighter that defied the odds. He was short, weighed aprox. 185 lbs, was slow, had mediocre skills and started fighting as a pro at 24. This should spell disaster for him, but it didn't. With his stamina, chin, power and heart, he brawled his way to the championship belt and through six defenses, before hanging em' up.

To say Rocky Marciano was not a great fighter, is ridiculos. He was one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. It is not his fault that he fought during a less than great era, and it should not be held against him. He never ducked anyone and beat them all. Nobody has never been able to this, before or after Marciano.

I am sure he would defeat many alltime greats if he was given half a chance.

Overrated? I think not.

KidBlackie
11-04-2005, 12:53 PM
[[[but he was 185 pounds fighting against guys that outweighed him by at least 15 pounds. That is pretty incredible when you think about it.]]]
=============================

There you go again. You're completely shameless and are not in the least embarrassed that you don't know what you're talking about. The record shows approx half of Rocky's opponents weighed within a few lbs or less than him. Less than a handful had 15 or more lbs on him. All had reach on him and most were as tall or a few inches taller.

As far as the originator of this post, well, since he was too dumb to post a rating of Rocky, then his question is invalid. IBRO historians ranked Rocky in their top 10 and he had some of the best fights in history against Walcott and Charles. Even Ali liked Rocky and had his name painted on one of the big boulders at his Deer Lake training camp and Foreman and Frazier like him too.

SnoopySmurf
11-04-2005, 01:32 PM
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/SnoopySmurf/Misc_Pix/Rocky_Walcott.jpg

During his time, he was the reigning undesputed heavyweight champion of the world. The picture above is his challenge for Jersey Joe Walcott's heavyweight title. Rocky was down for the first time in his career in the first round by Jersey Joe's lethal left hook (which BTW was the same hook that earned him the title as he KO'd Ezzard Charles).

All night, Rocky ate nothing but combos, jabs and even was staggared in the 12th round (courtesy of http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w0502-pd.html). But the 13th will be forever etched into history as Rocky launched his Suzie-Q punch. A short right hook from just 12 inches away when Jersey Joe was on the ropes. Trailing on all cards, this punch was the ultimate Puncher's Chance as Jersey Joe Walcott slumped into the ropes and was counted out.

Extremely easy to hit yet he never crumbled nor slowed with exhaustion. He crouched like a hunch back, stalking his opponents sideways, always hiding his iron mallet within his right glove. Always ready to throw the devastating right punch. It was his best weapon against the sweet science of the more talented fighters of his time. If the fleet footed fighter could avoid a clubbing to his face, Rocky would punch their arms until the 8 ounces of padding could no longer be held in defense.

With what little talent and physical attributes he had, he made up for it through pure savagery, determination and sometimes elbows, headbutts and pure guts. Clinching was out of the question. This was Rocky Marciano. The Brockton Blockbuster.

(this thread was inspired by one who praised John Ruiz :p )

Kid Achilles
11-04-2005, 01:48 PM
Marciano was talented. Pretty good head movement and wasn't easy to hit from long range. He was only really dropped on the inside, by sneaky punches by Walcott and Moore.

He wasn't that quick but what handspeed he had he retained until the end of a fight. Most guys slow down as a fight goes on. The right hand he knocked Walcott out with was actually quicker than Walcott's right hand that he had started to throw. Marciano beat Jersey Joe to the punch.

Aside from the power, chin, and determination, he had other qualities that made him a great champion. At his peak he was an underrated athlete, and not the stationary target he presented to an old Joe Louis and other earlier opponents. His upper body movement by the Archie Moore fight was better than many of the other heavyweight champions.

In my opinion he was better at slipping punches at the end of his career than Joe Frazier. Frazier's defense visually looked more impressive because he always moving his head around but the reality is Joe was tagged more often by lesser fighters. I don't see prime Marciano at the top of his game ever getting caught and staggered by Ron Stander. Not if they fought ten times.

Skydog
11-04-2005, 02:55 PM
He may be overrated, but he would give many 200+ pound opponents a hard time. Like Frazier, he is relentless, but hits harder than Joe. You don't go undefeated for nothing.

Dempsey 1919
11-04-2005, 03:27 PM
He may be overrated, but he would give many 200+ pound opponents a hard time. Like Frazier, he is relentless, but hits harder than Joe. You don't go undefeated for nothing.
you go undefeated if you fight glass chin middleweights and cruiserweights like marciano did.

kapersky
11-05-2005, 12:12 PM
you go undefeated if you fight glass chin middleweights and cruiserweights like marciano did.

mm i like marciano, but can anyone honestly say they can see marciano survive with foreman for 12rounds? or guy like lewis?

Dempsey 1919
11-08-2005, 02:19 PM
mm i like marciano, but can anyone honestly say they can see marciano survive with foreman for 12rounds? or guy like lewis?
i definetely can't!

ricecrispi
11-08-2005, 07:10 PM
Foreman for 12 rounds. I don't think so but I would never bet against Marciano because he is also possibly one miracle punch from knockout Foreman who didn't have the greatest boxing skills but had great KO power.

Lewis? Now thats overrated. You ever seen the man fight. Yeah he has a great record and is very big but his is unimpressive in most of his fights and even the ones he won.
Look at his losses. Gets knocked by Rahmin and McCall.

Hurt by a declining Holyfield and didn't even knock out Holyfield when Bowe did and so did Toney. Where is all that power. All he did was jab backwards and hug for 24 rounds.

Had his hands full with Shannon Briggs and QuitX4Klitskho. Ran from David Tua. Lewis is a cunt

I never saw Marciano run from any of his opponents like a cunt and go hugging them for half the fight like its a gay and lesbian parade down sunset blvd.

Dempsey 1919
11-08-2005, 09:59 PM
Foreman for 12 rounds. I don't think so but I would never bet against Marciano because he is also possibly one miracle punch from knockout Foreman who didn't have the greatest boxing skills but had great KO power.

marciano has no chance against foreman. at all. foreman hits 5 times as hard as marciano, plus he is more skilled.

leff
11-18-2005, 10:51 AM
marciano has no chance against foreman. at all. foreman hits 5 times as hard as marciano, plus he is more skilled.

if he hit 5 times as hard as marciano he would not only kill but litteray decapitate every single one off his opponents.

and saying foreman is more skilled is complete bullocks too

Derranged
11-18-2005, 11:10 AM
if he hit 5 times as hard as marciano he would not only kill but litteray decapitate every single one off his opponents.

and saying foreman is more skilled is complete bullocks too

Yea in the 70's Foreman was not all that skilled, he was just a vicious animal. A lot of the time he just took wild swings and only pawed with the jab. His second career he was a much better BOXER. But I dont know if Marciano could handle Foremans power. Marciano came at a time when the toughest competition were way past their primes, and at that time 37 years old was more like 44 years old now because of the conditioning wasnt as good, longer rounds, fighting more fights more often and also one was allowed to take much more punishment before a fight was stopped then today.

Dempsey 1919
11-18-2005, 02:41 PM
Yea in the 70's Foreman was not all that skilled, he was just a vicious animal. A lot of the time he just took wild swings and only pawed with the jab. His second career he was a much better BOXER. But I dont know if Marciano could handle Foremans power. Marciano came at a time when the toughest competition were way past their primes, and at that time 37 years old was more like 44 years old now because of the conditioning wasnt as good, longer rounds, fighting more fights more often and also one was allowed to take much more punishment before a fight was stopped then today.

how is he not all that skilled, and he destroyed a prime frazier?

Easy-E
11-18-2005, 02:58 PM
if he hit 5 times as hard as marciano he would not only kill but litteray decapitate every single one off his opponents.

and saying foreman is more skilled is complete bullocks too

foreman was stronger than rocky, and wayyy to big for rocky

for his size, rocky was stronger and tougher than george.

Easy-E
11-18-2005, 02:59 PM
how is he not all that skilled, and he destroyed a prime frazier?

its called power

in case you didnt know, fraizer basiclly walks at you with his crablike defernse to get inside and hurtyou
foreman was too strong, too powerful and too big for fraizer.

Dempsey 1919
11-18-2005, 03:01 PM
its called power

in case you didnt know, fraizer basiclly walks at you with his crablike defernse to get inside and hurtyou
foreman was too strong, too powerful and too big for fraizer.

look he had to have some skills to beat frazier, no matter how powerful he is.

Easy-E
11-18-2005, 03:05 PM
look he had to have some skills to beat frazier, no matter how powerful he is.

obviously he was skilled, but he relied totally on his power and size than his skill.
take lennox lewis for example.
he would beat rocky and fraizer, not because hes better, because hes bigger

Dempsey 1919
11-18-2005, 03:11 PM
obviously he was skilled, but he relied totally on his power and size than his skill.
take lennox lewis for example.
he would beat rocky and fraizer, not because hes better, because hes bigger

frazier would ko lewis.

Brockton Lip
11-18-2005, 03:11 PM
I think he means technique.

Dempsey 1919
11-18-2005, 03:51 PM
I think he means technique.

alright, but foreman had skills.

Imira
11-18-2005, 04:54 PM
Well, Rocky did beat every man placed in front of him. If he had lost to any of those fighters, he'd get disrespected even more than he does now.

49 wins in a row with no defeats in his entire career is difficult to achieve. No matter what the opposition.

Kid Achilles
11-18-2005, 05:01 PM
Marciano would have no chance against Foreman and yet Frazier would murder Lennox Lewis? Frazier was a one-handed pudgy Marciano with a worse chin and a poorer defense. I don't like to discredit the greats, and Frazier is one of my favorite champions, but Marciano > Frazier. I think even he would agree with me.

The extra weight on Frazier was fat. Put him at Marciano's bf% and he weighs exactly the same as Marciano. He was not a stronger man by any stretch of the imagination. People who have Marciano caving in one round to Lennox Lewis while announcing that Frazier would fare differently astound me with their biases.

Imira
11-18-2005, 05:04 PM
Frazier did have two-fisted power. He relied on his left hook to lead and finish, but his right hand was just as powerful as his left.

Kid Achilles
11-18-2005, 05:10 PM
Frazier's right hand wasn't awful, and perhaps it was a bit above average, but it was pretty tame stuff compared to that beautiful left hook.

To put it another way, I think Marciano's left hook was better than Frazier's right.

Da Iceman
11-18-2005, 05:20 PM
marciano's whole arsenal was better than fraziers

Dempsey 1919
11-18-2005, 06:42 PM
Marciano would have no chance against Foreman and yet Frazier would murder Lennox Lewis? Frazier was a one-handed pudgy Marciano with a worse chin and a poorer defense. I don't like to discredit the greats, and Frazier is one of my favorite champions, but Marciano > Frazier. I think even he would agree with me.

The extra weight on Frazier was fat. Put him at Marciano's bf% and he weighs exactly the same as Marciano. He was not a stronger man by any stretch of the imagination. People who have Marciano caving in one round to Lennox Lewis while announcing that Frazier would fare differently astound me with their biases.

lewis was not a heavy puncher, and frazier was known to do well against big fighters, look what he did to buster mathis!

Dempsey 1919
11-18-2005, 06:43 PM
Marciano would have no chance against Foreman and yet Frazier would murder Lennox Lewis? Frazier was a one-handed pudgy Marciano with a worse chin and a poorer defense. I don't like to discredit the greats, and Frazier is one of my favorite champions, but Marciano > Frazier. I think even he would agree with me.

The extra weight on Frazier was fat. Put him at Marciano's bf% and he weighs exactly the same as Marciano. He was not a stronger man by any stretch of the imagination. People who have Marciano caving in one round to Lennox Lewis while announcing that Frazier would fare differently astound me with their biases.

uh, excuse me? frazier in his prime was 205lbs of pure muscle! he was a slightly skinnier version of mike tyson.

Kid Achilles
11-18-2005, 07:33 PM
Lewis was an extremely heavy puncher. His right hand has been one of the most feared punches in heavyweight boxing in the last ten years. Where have you been??

Also Frazier was certainly not all muscle. He was pretty soft all around in terms of his physique. He didn't have a gut or anything, but he wasn't ripped like Tyson or even Marciano at all. Look at how chubby his arms were.

http://www.how-to-box.com/boxing/files/images/frazier1.jpg

KingAbdullah
11-18-2005, 11:01 PM
Achilles, can you guess who I am?

TuPrincipe
11-18-2005, 11:17 PM
Ah...at last finally a poster who I can argue with about Joe Frazier. I've been waiting for this moment since I got here.

Smoking Joe was simply the black Marciano. He was a swarming, non-stop, perpetual motion attacker who fought from a crouch. A sturdy man with a tough jaw, powerhouse left hook (his right wasn’t bad either), and tremendous endurance. Joe used to come straight at his man bobbing and weaving as he moved in.

He fought almost exactly like Marciano. They were both brawlers in a sense and both of them trained as they fought and their gym fights were wars. They were willing to take a punch to land one of their own.

The only reason I would pick Frazier to beat Marciano in a fight is because Marciano was very prone to cuts. Other then that, Frazier was an ULTIMATE fighting machine who was a throwback to the old days.

He would beat all of the top heavy's including Mike Tyson, and Larry Holmes but He wouldn't beat Lennox Lewis because of the laser left jab and right cross. Lewis would just be too big, and too strong.

Kid Achilles Joe had amazing shoulder and arm strength. His power came mostly from his huge arm and thigh muscles.

Easy-E
11-19-2005, 02:50 AM
lewis was not a heavy puncher, and frazier was known to do well against big fighters, look what he did to buster mathis!

lennox lewis wasnt a big puncher??!!?

yeah, that settles it, you know slim to nothing about boxing

Dempsey 1919
11-19-2005, 11:41 AM
lennox lewis wasnt a big puncher??!!?

yeah, that settles it, you know slim to nothing about boxing

well, he didn't hit as hard as foreman.

Da Iceman
11-20-2005, 12:20 AM
i dont understand why some fighters have 1 punch ko power like foreman but they dont use it.

blockhead
11-20-2005, 12:43 AM
yes. he is very overrated. he is not even a heavyweight. he is a 185 pound cruiserweight. any good 200+ pound fighter in their prime would crush him!
this is exactly what makes him great. he was a small guy with a huge heart. he went out there and fought as hard as he could and he beat ass. he is overrated with the 49-0 record thing but his heart and determination are what make him a legend.

dino
11-20-2005, 01:12 AM
i agree that marciano was overrated...but also joe louis was overrated...they actually fought similar

Linx
11-20-2005, 05:40 AM
I agree that the Marciano fans who think that he beats any heavyweight alive to this day because he was undefeated, then that thinking makes him VERY overrated.

Evolution happens in every sport. Look at the track and field times of now compared to the past, the size of body builders today comapred to the past, Look at MMA and how much it has evolved of a space of less than 20 years.

The fact is Marciano was great IN HIS TIME. In his time 185 lbs wasn't that small cause the main names he beat Walcott, Charles and Moore were all former light heavyweight. The big guys he fought couldn't fight for ****, no skills at all.

If you compare him in modern times, he is small even for a cruiserweight. A good big man will always beat a good little man. A great big man will always beat a great little man.

Dempsey 1919
11-20-2005, 02:29 PM
I agree that the Marciano fans who think that he beats any heavyweight alive to this day because he was undefeated, then that thinking makes him VERY overrated.

Evolution happens in every sport. Look at the track and field times of now compared to the past, the size of body builders today comapred to the past, Look at MMA and how much it has evolved of a space of less than 20 years.

The fact is Marciano was great IN HIS TIME. In his time 185 lbs wasn't that small cause the main names he beat Walcott, Charles and Moore were all former light heavyweight. The big guys he fought couldn't fight for ****, no skills at all.

If you compare him in modern times, he is small even for a cruiserweight. A good big man will always beat a good little man. A great big man will always beat a great little man.

exactly what i'm saying.