View Full Version : Who Is The Greatest Boxer Of Alltime


VERSION1 (V1)
11-03-2005, 06:40 PM
I THINK SUGAR RAY ROBIONSON THE ALI WHAT DO YOU THINK :boxing:

Skydog
11-03-2005, 07:17 PM
Yea, in every weight class of boxing, definetly Sugar Ray Robinson.

habZ
11-03-2005, 07:26 PM
Sugar Ray Robinson all the way.
Ali right behind him :)

Skydog
11-03-2005, 10:49 PM
To me, your signature has the 3 greatest boxers of all-time. Thank god we have got a photograph of those 3.

Da Iceman
11-03-2005, 10:53 PM
1. robinson
2. ali
3. louis

Dempsey 1919
11-03-2005, 11:03 PM
i like your avatar.

Skydog
11-03-2005, 11:11 PM
1. robinson
2. ali
3. louis

Perfect. Exactly what I would have said.

Dempsey 1919
11-03-2005, 11:13 PM
i would switch 2 and 1 there if i were you.

fistlegend
11-04-2005, 02:18 AM
1)robinson
2)ali
3)louis

hard to say between ali and robinson, but if i had to choose now it wud be in that order

cple
11-04-2005, 02:37 PM
You could rate Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Harry Greb, Roberto Druan, and Sam Langford as the greatest of all-time, and you wouldn't get any complaints from me. They all have very solid arguments for being the best there ever was. I usually go with Robinson.

dempseyfan
11-04-2005, 02:41 PM
I would have to go with Robinson. However, I think he gets a little too much credit at Middleweight.

cple
11-04-2005, 02:47 PM
I would have to go with Robinson. However, I think he gets a little too much credit at Middleweight.

Robinson may not have been as consistent as he was at welterweight, but at his best, i wouldn't pick any middleweight ever (except for Greb) to beat him.

Dempsey 1919
11-04-2005, 03:29 PM
ali, ali, ali. bobody's betta!

dempseyfan
11-04-2005, 03:58 PM
I can agree with that, I just do not think that he beat all of the quality middleweights when he fought at that weight. He did not even bother fighting any the fighters in "Murderer's Row", which was a group of quality middleweights.

Dempsey 1919
11-04-2005, 04:45 PM
ali is da firat and only real 3 time champ. he is in a category all by himself.

fistlegend
11-04-2005, 04:49 PM
its hard to say but its between ali and robinson, i preferred alis style because he took sugar rays style and improved it

!!! Beowulf !!!
11-04-2005, 05:36 PM
Got to be Matt Skelton really.

Da Iceman
11-04-2005, 05:39 PM
how the hell is sam langford a great boxer he lost 46 times

habZ
11-04-2005, 07:05 PM
robinson was a 5 times champion

cple
11-04-2005, 07:22 PM
how the hell is sam langford a great boxer he lost 46 times

You have to look at more than his loss column to realize Sam Langford's greatness.

Da Iceman
11-04-2005, 07:25 PM
have you ever seen one of his fights or even a clip of him

Linx
11-06-2005, 12:27 AM
Ray Robinson (Walker Smith) is the greatest fighter of all time. He actually was a featherweight as a amateur where he won the golden gloves and to think he nearly beat Maxim for the Lightheavyweight title. At Welter, he was the man.

fistlegend
11-06-2005, 08:45 AM
well if you're saying the greatest then who else but muhammad ali :D

KidBlackie
11-06-2005, 12:49 PM
I've never seen a bigger collection of newbies on a board before.

Usually when the greatest fighters are debated, the only names that come up for the number one slot are Robinson, Pep, or Greb. Certainly Langford is often included in the top 10. Sometimes Rocky, Louis, Dempsey or Ali is mentioned, but since most of the hardest competition has traditionally been in the lower weights, heavies are usually excluded from the debate. Langford is in based not only on his longevity, his incredible comp, but the fact that he fought in all divisions from lightweight to heavy.

You boys ain't heard of any greats. Your history starts with your first bottle and you just flat ain't got the smarts to figure out the larger world which exists outside the sphere of your diapers!

Brockton Lip
11-06-2005, 01:12 PM
Ali, Robinson, Louis, and Marciano. One of those 4 no doubt.

everlast99
11-06-2005, 01:46 PM
robinson ali whitaker

jangeorg
11-07-2005, 03:07 AM
1: Muhammad Ali
2: Sugar Ray Leonard
3: Joe Louis
4: Sugar Ray Robinson
6: Marvin Hagler
7: Evander Holyfield

Verstyle
11-07-2005, 03:17 AM
i like going with boxers that fights ive seen. ALL OF THEM its not right to say some1 is the greatest cause alot of other ppl saw the fights and u saw there best fights it just starts to get regular . so im going to pick tyson since he's the one i focus on.

p.s. dont hate on me its jus my opinion since i havnt since every1 elses fight

Skydog
11-07-2005, 03:37 PM
i like going with boxers that fights ive seen. ALL OF THEM its not right to say some1 is the greatest cause alot of other ppl saw the fights and u saw there best fights it just starts to get regular . so im going to pick tyson since he's the one i focus on.

p.s. dont hate on me its jus my opinion since i havnt since every1 elses fight

Of course, I don't agree with that, but I respect your opinion and your reasoning for your opinion.

I still go with Robinson. No other man could have started in the lightweight division and have dominated everything up to light-heavyweight.

Dempsey 1919
11-08-2005, 01:46 PM
aaaliiii, ali, ali, aliiiiiiii. no body betaaaaaa!

j
11-08-2005, 02:08 PM
"i'm bad, but that man was crazy!"

- ali referring to jack johnson.


tough call, i don't think i could pick a best fighter from all of history.

Dempsey 1919
11-08-2005, 02:14 PM
"i'm bad, but that man was crazy!"

- ali referring to jack johnson.
no, i don't think so.

j
11-08-2005, 02:42 PM
what, you don't think he said that?

Dempsey 1919
11-08-2005, 03:06 PM
what, you don't think he said that?
i don't think he meant that.

j
11-08-2005, 03:25 PM
actually, in an ali's autobiography, he mentions that both him and frazier agreed that jack johnson(and joe louis) were the greatest boxers of old. i have a documentary where ali makes a 3 or four minute statement about jack. i believe it's called legends of the ring(not sure though).

just thought i'd throw that in to make it fun.

jack would most likely get my vote though.

here's a link to some decent info on him. it's a very good read:
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/jack_johnson.html

Dempsey 1919
11-08-2005, 03:33 PM
actually, in an ali's autobiography, he mentions that both him and frazier agreed that jack johnson(and joe louis) were the greatest boxers of old. i have a documentary where ali makes a 3 or four minute statement about jack. i believe it's called legends of the ring(not sure though).

just thought i'd throw that in to make it fun.

jack would most likely get my vote though.

here's a link to some decent info on him. it's a very good read:
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/jack_johnson.html
i just don't think ali would be scared to fight johnson. ali would whup up on johnson!

j
11-08-2005, 03:39 PM
good article huh.

i can repect your opinion, but ali puting a beatdown on johnson? jack would give ali the fight of his life at the least, just my opinion.

Dempsey 1919
11-08-2005, 03:52 PM
good article huh.

i can repect your opinion, but ali puting a beatdown on johnson? jack would give ali the fight of his life at the least, just my opinion.
the article was good.

and someone like frazier or larry holmes would give ali the fight of his life, not the behind the times johnson.

KingAbdullah
11-16-2005, 09:51 AM
i've seen better than Ali. Roy jones gets my vote. sixtime p4p fighter by KO poll. Should have been ten years straight.

Dempsey 1919
11-16-2005, 01:05 PM
i've seen better than Ali. Roy jones gets my vote. sixtime p4p fighter by KO poll. Should have been ten years straight.

name one fighter who weighs 210+ and moves as though he weighs 155-, besides ali?

Da Iceman
11-16-2005, 07:23 PM
joe louis is the G.O.A.T

RockyMarcianofan00
11-16-2005, 10:16 PM
name one fighter who weighs 210+ and moves as though he weighs 155-, besides ali?

just cause he can move great for 210 doesn't mean that he's the best
plus alot of that was muscle to help move him around

umm but on best fighters
probably either
Marciano
Tyson
foreman

ali is up there somewhere to i'll admit though i hate the guy i can't take his speed away from him

but the best boxers-
probably are either ali or robinson
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Easy-E
11-17-2005, 12:39 AM
just cause he can move great for 210 doesn't mean that he's the best
plus alot of that was muscle to help move him around

umm but on best fighters
probably either
Marciano
Tyson
foreman

ali is up there somewhere to i'll admit though i hate the guy i can't take his speed away from him

but the best boxers-
probably are either ali or robinson

you put foreman ahead of ali :rolleyes:

Da Iceman
11-17-2005, 07:47 AM
rockymarcianofan your avatar is cruel

RockyMarcianofan00
11-17-2005, 03:55 PM
rockymarcianofan your avatar is cruel

what do u mean out of curiousity
iand i'm not doin this just to be like an idiot i'm actually serious
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cple
11-17-2005, 04:51 PM
Even to this day, i refuse to watch Louis-Marciano ever again. Too sad a sight to see twice.

Dempsey 1919
11-17-2005, 05:57 PM
what ever muhammad ali in 1967 was the greatest athlete to ever grace the competitive threshhold.

http://www.megacalendars.com/images/1386.jpg

Da Iceman
11-17-2005, 06:56 PM
its cruel cuz joe was over the hill and he took a beating. that pic should be banned!

Dempsey 1919
11-17-2005, 07:00 PM
its cruel cuz joe was over the hill and he took a beating. that pic should be banned!

so should this one. :(

http://www.onlinesports.com/images/ssg-lh-16a.jpg

Dempsey 1919
11-17-2005, 07:03 PM
and this one. :( :(

http://www.moremoviesdirect.com/images/covers/done/60349700913.JPG

RockyMarcianofan00
11-17-2005, 08:42 PM
unfortunatley most good fighters don't know or don't want it to be over so there always hoping for that last fight to just prove they still go it and then....well they get hurt
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Da Iceman
11-17-2005, 09:24 PM
butterfly who's the guy in the first pic?

Dempsey 1919
11-18-2005, 12:30 PM
butterfly who's the guy in the first pic?

the first one is ali vs. holmes and the second is ali vs. berbick.

KidBlackie
11-19-2005, 10:22 AM
[[[[actually, in an ali's autobiography, he mentions that both him and frazier agreed that jack johnson(and joe louis) were the greatest boxers of old. i have a documentary where ali makes a 3 or four minute statement about jack. i believe it's called legends of the ring(not sure though).]]]]]
========================

I don't recall Ali ever actually rating the heavies, but he also considered Rocky one of the greatest and Louis, Johnson, and Rocky's names were painted on 3 large boulders at his Deer Lake training camp.

I think it was his Nov 74 Playboy interview where he touches on great heavies. He didn't claim he could beat them all, but figures he's up there with them. Ali is like Foreman in that he's all over the map in what he says, a walking contradiction. His "The Greatest" bio was inaccurate in some details like his alleged medal throwing incident and a really goofy recollection of a rumble with bikers that is so far over the top it seems beyond even his imagination.

Dempsey 1919
11-19-2005, 12:24 PM
[[[[actually, in an ali's autobiography, he mentions that both him and frazier agreed that jack johnson(and joe louis) were the greatest boxers of old. i have a documentary where ali makes a 3 or four minute statement about jack. i believe it's called legends of the ring(not sure though).]]]]]
========================

I don't recall Ali ever actually rating the heavies, but he also considered Rocky one of the greatest and Louis, Johnson, and Rocky's names were painted on 3 large boulders at his Deer Lake training camp.

I think it was his Nov 74 Playboy interview where he touches on great heavies. He didn't claim he could beat them all, but figures he's up there with them. Ali is like Foreman in that he's all over the map in what he says, a walking contradiction. His "The Greatest" bio was inaccurate in some details like his alleged medal throwing incident and a really goofy recollection of a rumble with bikers that is so far over the top it seems beyond even his imagination.

i read it in a biography of ali, that after winning the gold medal in '60, that in louiville he and his friend decided to go to a white-only restaurant, and that clay would wear his medal, and that the color barrier wouldn't matter if he had brought olympic gold to their home town. so when they went in, there was a black waitress at the counter that told them that she could not serve them, and she advised them to leave right away. cassius said, "but i'm the gold medal winner, look!", and he showed off his olympic medal. a big, white man came out of a separate room with a suit on and proclaimed himself to be the manager. he said that he wasn't going to serve him so he might as well leave. cassius again said, "but i'm the gold medal winner from the olympics," and again showed his medal. but the man said ,"i don't care who the hell you are, no *****s are getting served here!" and the man began to curse and swear and say all kind of racial slurs faster than clay threw punches in the ring. then clay and his friend looked over and saw a group of seemingly tough white motorcyclists. now if rumor was right, these were the same punks that for no reason beat up a black teenager a week before! the gang got up and started to walk toward the two negro youngsters. clay and his friend turned around and slowly walked out. but the gang followed them! so the two boys ran and jumped on their motorbikes and took off! the gang followed suit on their motorcycles. now i believed it was three or four men, so two went after one, while two went after the other. so what clay and his friend decided to do was to jump off their bikes suddenly and make the guy's behind them crash! so they did that and it worked for the most part but the leader of the gang, a guy nicknamed kentucky, ran after them with one of the other gang members. one of them grabbed clay and the other was going to beat him up, when clay got help from his friend! he managed to pull the other guy off of clay and then kentucky lunged after clay, and cassius knocked kentucky "all the way to kansas" lol! clay then saw the chain around kentucky neck and began to choke him with it. the man begged for mercy and clay let him go. both gang members ran away. then it hit clay. he realized that even though he made his country and his city proud by winning gold, he would still be considered a *****. he then knew that the gold medal around his neck did not mean a thing really. so there was a river nearby so he walked up to it, took the medal from around his neck, and threw it in the river!

at least that's how i know the story goes.

Heckler
11-21-2005, 02:13 AM
Ali, Louis and marciano following this... Marciano although had good power, beat his opponents using determination and sheer heart... The extent of these qualities are matched by one man, Muhammad Ali. Whatever damage marciano could inflict would not be beyond frazier and foremans, Ali would move around the periphery with marciano failing to cut off the ring... With overwhelming handspeed Ali would win on cuts or UD.

jabsRstiff
11-21-2005, 02:39 PM
its cruel cuz joe was over the hill and he took a beating. that pic should be banned!


That is an over-the-hill "Joe" in his avatar....but it isn't Louis.
It's Walcott.

j
11-21-2005, 03:45 PM
actually, in "legends of the ring" ali says, quote, "the greatest of all time" referring to jack johnson. just watched it a few hours ago. that's not me talking, that's ali.


about the olympic gold medal, from a very recent book written by muhammad ali called "the soul of a butterfly" 2004, he writes:

"over the years i had told some people i lost it, but no one ever found it. that's because i've lost it on purpose. the world should know the truth - it's somewhere at the bottom of the ohio river."

it was an easy quote to find as i have the book. it's a very interesting read.

Dempsey 1919
11-21-2005, 05:17 PM
the point is, ali is the greatest.

http://www.peterdeighan.com/images/ali.jpg

big a
11-21-2005, 08:33 PM
I thinj Joe Frazier is the greatest of all time! :boxing:

THRILLAinmanila
11-21-2005, 08:42 PM
The guy punching in my avatar

big a
11-21-2005, 08:48 PM
In fact Frazier beat Ali the frist time they fought. So he isnt the greatest, but he is a good fighter. :boxing:

Da Iceman
11-21-2005, 09:09 PM
In fact Frazier beat Ali the frist time they fought. So he isnt the greatest, but he is a good fighter. :boxing:
he's definetly top 10

RockyMarcianofan00
11-21-2005, 09:38 PM
the point is, ali is the greatest.

http://www.peterdeighan.com/images/ali.jpg

ali's only the greatest (usually) to ppl who are ignorant to the fact that he wasn't the greatest, he had great hand speed and relitivly decent strength for his size but the point is that all he did was dance around and intimidate which i actually don't wanna say, is a cheap but very effective stratgy.

but ya know i could rant and rave until forever u can't change somebody's mind u can just put the facts out there...i'll give ali one thing, i knew his name long before i knew about marciano

like 10 years before
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Dempsey 1919
11-22-2005, 06:03 PM
ali's only the greatest (usually) to ppl who are ignorant to the fact that he wasn't the greatest, he had great hand speed and relitivly decent strength for his size but the point is that all he did was dance around and intimidate which i actually don't wanna say, is a cheap but very effective stratgy.

but ya know i could rant and rave until forever u can't change somebody's mind u can just put the facts out there...i'll give ali one thing, i knew his name long before i knew about marciano

like 10 years before

fastest fighter in prime: ali

if you can't hit a guy, then strength doesn't matter!
ali is the greatest, get over the fact that he beat fighters you probably like, he is was and all-ways will be THEE GREATEST!!!

SonnyG8R
11-22-2005, 07:14 PM
Ali's got my vote, although I could see an argument for Sugar Ray Robinson.

phallus
11-22-2005, 07:28 PM
i'd say sugar ray rob, from the old boxing books i read, written by old timers who ACTUALLY saw him in his prime and all said he's the most complete fighter they've ever seen, even seeing him for myself against joey maxim ( on film of course )- when he wasn't near as good as his prime, he was just ****ing amazing...i say srr

Frazier's 15th round
11-22-2005, 07:29 PM
Joe Frazier is my hero, and I have to pick him. In the ring, especially from 1968-1971, he was a monster. Even though he wasn't that big physically, he had the biggest heart I've ever seen. His arm was bent from some kind of farming accident, so he didn't have the full range of motion. Not that it really hurt him, as it would naturally go into a vicious hook. After his greatest victory, over Muhammad Ali, he went downhill. He met Foreman after beating Daniels and Stander, and Foreman beat him down. But what I remember from the fight is the fact that Frazier kept getting right up, and getting the **** beat out of him again. Then, in 1975, he met Ali again. Despite being legally blind in one eye, and having 20/50 vision in the other, he still managed to put up an amazing effort. During the last few rounds, Ali was teeing off on him, and yet Frazier still kept coming.

Outside the ring, barring a few flaws, such as drunk driving, he was a great person. He was unfairly cast as the guy who supported the war, and ended up being despised by a lot of black America. This, of course, was due to his rival, and supposed "friend", Muhammad Ali. Ali scarred his soul. People blame Frazier for being bitter, but consider what Ali did to him. He made fun of the way he talked, looked, and acted. Frazier was getting death threats, and his kids were being harrassed at school. This is only a tiny bit of what happened. Dumb ******, Gorilla, and Ape were just some of the names that Frazier was called on a daily basis.

speed_devil
11-22-2005, 07:58 PM
Their are a few great alltimers…it is impossible to who is / was ever the best and is…!

Heckler
11-22-2005, 08:00 PM
Ali would beat marciano, its not just speed, its his footwork, his grasp on range... he would control the range, move laterally and pick Marciano off... it wouldn't be easy for Ali but its easy to recognise that he would win.

speed_devil
11-22-2005, 08:02 PM
Ali would beat marciano, its not just speed, its his footwork, his grasp on range... he would control the range, move laterally and pick Marciano off... it wouldn't be easy for Ali but its easy to recognise that he would win.

Ali would batter Marcian hands down…

Heckler
11-22-2005, 08:03 PM
Ali only tried to defeat him mentally before the fight started... Ali had great respect for Frazier following the Thrilla in Manilla and they did develop a friendship

speed_devil
11-22-2005, 08:09 PM
Ali only tried to defeat him mentally before the fight started... Ali had great respect for Frazier following the Thrilla in Manilla and they did develop a friendship

Yes but over time some of the greatest boxers form a freindship after -AFTER they bout its a common thing that always happens well most of the time.

Heckler
11-22-2005, 08:23 PM
it was more mutual respect.... Ali said this not to long ago "Joe's right (to be bitter). I said a lot of things in the heat of the moment that I shouldn't have said. Called him names I shouldn't have called him. I apologize for that. I'm sorry. It was all meant to promote the fight. ”

RockyMarcianofan00
11-23-2005, 03:55 PM
everybody can have there own opinion so i can't change that, i think marciano would win and u think ali would win, unfortunatley the fight will never happen for real,and to tell u the truth u can take all the facts and look at them or feed them into a computer it doesn't matter cause it didn't happen. i mean if u fed buster douglas and tyson into a comp at that time tyson probably would of won so u just got to go with ur opinion.
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Dempsey 1919
11-23-2005, 03:57 PM
everybody can have there own opinion so i can't change that, i think marciano would win and u think ali would win, unfortunatley the fight will never happen for real,and to tell u the truth u can take all the facts and look at them or feed them into a computer it doesn't matter cause it didn't happen. i mean if u fed buster douglas and tyson into a comp at that time tyson probably would of won so u just got to go with ur opinion.

that is very true.

speed_devil
11-23-2005, 04:02 PM
that is very true.

Agree again !

blockhead
11-23-2005, 04:36 PM
sugar ray robinson, henry armstrong, joe louis , ali

in that order. no way anyone was better than robinson.

speed_devil
11-23-2005, 04:43 PM
how do you actually know that NO1 was better

Dempsey 1919
11-23-2005, 06:52 PM
sugar ray robinson, henry armstrong, joe louis , ali

in that order. no way anyone was better than robinson.

ali is better than robinson.

blockhead
11-23-2005, 07:25 PM
ali is better than robinson.
not on his best day butterfly. look at how much robinson fought and how well. ali imitated robinson and fell short because he doesnt have the body to fight as hard and as often as robinson. most boxing historians agree with my opinion and if you took the time to get off ali's nuts and watch the videos of sugar ray you would agree as well.

RockyMarcianofan00
11-23-2005, 07:37 PM
sugar ray robinson, henry armstrong, joe louis , ali

in that order. no way anyone was better than robinson.

I'm not getting into the order but those were the best boxers maybe not the best heavyweights

i don't know about henry armstrong at all but the others were good boxers not necessarily the best heavyweights
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blockhead
11-23-2005, 07:53 PM
I'm not getting into the order but those were the best boxers maybe not the best heavyweights

i don't know about henry armstrong at all but the others were good boxers not necessarily the best heavyweights
armstrong was an amazing but little known fighter. he is highly ranked on p4p lists. the video of him is a lot of fun to watch.

Dempsey 1919
11-23-2005, 08:12 PM
not on his best day butterfly. look at how much robinson fought and how well. ali imitated robinson and fell short because he doesnt have the body to fight as hard and as often as robinson. most boxing historians agree with my opinion and if you took the time to get off ali's nuts and watch the videos of sugar ray you would agree as well.

i think i said this in another post, but i'll say it again. if they fough as they are, meaning robinson as a middleweight, and ali as a heavyweight, robinson would get crushed in one round, 'cause the size difference is too overwhelming.

however, p4p ali would still win. think about it, if sugar ray moved up to hw, then he would naturally become slower, so ali would be too fast for him. likewise, if ali moved down to middleweight, then ali would be faster and ali would still be too fast for him. so ali wins, whether it is p4p or not!

pwned :p

blockhead
11-23-2005, 08:20 PM
i think i said this in another post, but i'll say it again. if they fough as they are, meaning robinson as a middleweight, and ali as a heavyweight, robinson would get crushed in one round, 'cause the size difference is too overwhelming.

however, p4p ali would still win. think about it, if sugar ray moved up to hw, then he would naturally become slower, so ali would be too fast for him. likewise, if ali moved down to middleweight, then ali would be faster and ali would still be too fast for him. so ali wins, whether it is p4p or not!

pwned :p
your argument makes absolutely no sense. you dont understand what the p4p rankings are based on, and i doubt you have ever seen ray robinson fight. he was far faster than ali. more accurate and more powerful for his size all of these attributes make ray robinson the best p4p fighter of all time and thus the best fighter of all time which is the title of this thread. try watching more people fight other than ali and get a chance at comparing skills to weight classes if you want to "pwn" someone. you say you have read multiple books about ali and thats great ali was great but you need to do more research so you can get a broader spectrum of the history of boxing.

Dempsey 1919
11-24-2005, 12:30 AM
your argument makes absolutely no sense. you dont understand what the p4p rankings are based on, and i doubt you have ever seen ray robinson fight. he was far faster than ali. more accurate and more powerful for his size all of these attributes make ray robinson the best p4p fighter of all time and thus the best fighter of all time which is the title of this thread. try watching more people fight other than ali and get a chance at comparing skills to weight classes if you want to "pwn" someone. you say you have read multiple books about ali and thats great ali was great but you need to do more research so you can get a broader spectrum of the history of boxing.

explain how my p4p analysis makes no sense. i hit the nail right on the nose.

Punster
11-24-2005, 04:29 AM
Ali is the greatest.

Hell, he didn't even have a prime. Those years were spent in jail. He could have been absolutely incredible during those years.

rge
11-24-2005, 09:28 AM
explain how my p4p analysis makes no sense. i hit the nail right on the nose.

The biggest problem is: how can you think Ali can go down to middleweigh without problems, and even worse, be better than a middleweight? if he does that he would be too thin and without any strength.

RockyMarcianofan00
11-24-2005, 10:39 AM
The biggest problem is: how can you think Ali can go down to middleweigh without problems, and even worse, be better than a middleweight? if he does that he would be too thin and without any strength.

Agreed, i too find it hard to see Ali go down to middle weight without losing alot of strength and not having problems, i mean he was 230 u said so that means that if he was in as good of shape as u say about 100+ of that weight is muscle so i mean there ain't to much fat to lose so its gotta be muscle
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Baddest man on da planet
11-24-2005, 01:46 PM
i also say that p4p sugar ray robinson is the greatest fighter. he was faster and more powerful than ali p4p.

Da Iceman
11-25-2005, 09:24 PM
i dont recall a fight where ali was 230. in his prime he was around 215. post prime 220

Punster
11-25-2005, 10:28 PM
Wasn't he out of shape and slightly overweight for his fight with Ron Lyle?

That could be it, if it is at all true.

Dempsey 1919
11-25-2005, 11:39 PM
The biggest problem is: how can you think Ali can go down to middleweigh without problems, and even worse, be better than a middleweight? if he does that he would be too thin and without any strength.

that wasn't the point. i'm not saying if one gained or lost weight, i'm just saying if they both were in the same weight class, then ali would be faster 'cause he was very fast and he was a hw. sugar was also fast, maybe a little faster than ali, but he was a middleweight, so of course he would be faster than ali. ali was p4p the faster one, so sugar would be confused.

hellfire508
11-26-2005, 03:34 AM
Here is my under review P4P list:

Please feel free to give input, because I am still changing it around a lot.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Joe Gans
8. Benny Leonard
9. Jimmy Wilde
10. Ray Leonard
11. Sandy Saddler
12. Sam Langford
13. Stanley Ketchel
14. Marvin Hagler
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Ezzard Charles
17. Pernell Whitaker
18. Joe Louis
19. Salvador Sanchez
20. Julio Cesar Chavez

Punster
11-26-2005, 04:23 AM
In my opinion, Ali is the best fighter with Sugar Ray Robinson in a close second.

Very few people have dominated the heavyweight division the way Muhammad Ali did during the 60s and 70s. And back in the 70's, the heavyweight division actually had decent boxers so Ali had quite a bit of competition.

rge
11-26-2005, 09:52 AM
that wasn't the point. i'm not saying if one gained or lost weight, i'm just saying if they both were in the same weight class, then ali would be faster 'cause he was very fast and he was a hw.

Wow you were ultratheoric, I didn't get you the first time.

BjarniJ
11-26-2005, 12:52 PM
Sugar Ray Robinson all the way.
Ali right behind him :)
What's with Ali's right knuckle on that pic?

Yogi
11-27-2005, 03:59 AM
joe louis is the G.O.A.T

As someone who had the audacity to question Sam Langford's greatness (yes, there is footage of him available and he looks ****ing spectacular!) and then proclaims Joe Louis as the greatest fighter of all-time, you might be just a little bit pissed when you read this opinion from Dan Morgan, who's a former boxing manager inducted into the Hall-of-Fame;

"Langford, who was a scientific knocker-outer, would crowd Louis, either lead to him or counter him, and take whatever Joe could dish out. I think Sam would finish Joe in about six or seven rounds of real slugging." - (quote from John McCallum's book 'The Enclyclopedia of World Boxing Champions')

TuPrincipe
11-27-2005, 04:34 AM
As someone who had the audacity to question Sam Langford's greatness (yes, there is footage of him available and he looks ****ing spectacular!) and then proclaims Joe Louis as the greatest fighter of all-time, you might be just a little bit pissed when you read this opinion from Dan Morgan, who's a former boxing manager inducted into the Hall-of-Fame;

"Langford, who was a scientific knocker-outer, would crowd Louis, either lead to him or counter him, and take whatever Joe could dish out. I think Sam would finish Joe in about six or seven rounds of real slugging." - (quote from John McCallum's book 'The Enclyclopedia of World Boxing Champions')

You should come up with your own opinions. While I respect all of the boxing "experts" opinions, at the end of the day it is mine that I care about most.

Aren't you the same way?

Yogi
11-27-2005, 05:23 AM
You should come up with your own opinions. While I respect all of the boxing "experts" opinions, at the end of the day it is mine that I care about most.

Aren't you the same way?

Of course, my own personal opinions are by far the most important to me...no doubt about it. But for a different opinion, I'm going to trust an "expert" opinion from someone who was actually alive to see both of those fighters live and in person over someone on an boxing board...and I would also assume that 'NextRocky' character would do the same.

Now if you're asking my own opinion on who would win that matchup between Louis and Langford, I'm not sure I can get a completely accurate picture of it. Afterall, there's only two fights available of Sam's on film right now (I've seen them both), so we're kinda limited in what we can see from him...But from what I've seen from both fighters, I can certainly see that scenario of Morgan's playing out, as Langford showed himself to be very aggressive for a highly skilled boxer-puncher (Sam would often come inside of his opponent after throwing a jab/right hand combo or even after slipping a jab or straight shot from his opponent, and once he got inside his range he'd unload the bombs and wouldn't stop until his opponent was again out of range) and it'd be tough going for Louis in trying to avoid the numerous & very hard powershots from Sam. It's liable to be mostly a four-fisted shootout from close to mid range with little use for defense, and who knows what would've happened...Either one could've won.

Da Iceman
11-27-2005, 09:19 AM
As someone who had the audacity to question Sam Langford's greatness (yes, there is footage of him available and he looks ****ing spectacular!) and then proclaims Joe Louis as the greatest fighter of all-time, you might be just a little bit pissed when you read this opinion from Dan Morgan, who's a former boxing manager inducted into the Hall-of-Fame;

"Langford, who was a scientific knocker-outer, would crowd Louis, either lead to him or counter him, and take whatever Joe could dish out. I think Sam would finish Joe in about six or seven rounds of real slugging." - (quote from John McCallum's book 'The Enclyclopedia of World Boxing Champions')
that is one mans opinion, just because hes a hall of fame manager that doesnt mean he knows how it would go down in the ring.they thought ali was going to get killed by foreman. but did he ? no, that just goes to show you things dont always happen the way you thought they would

krtbuckeye
11-27-2005, 09:40 AM
The fact f the matter is that Ali is not even seen in the eyes of some boxing historians as the best heavyweight of all-time, some say Ali while others legitimately argue it is Joe Louis. But since this thread is not solely concerned with heavyweights....this is my p4p ranking

Sugar Ray Robinson
Billy Conn
Archie Moore
Gene Fullmer
Henry Armstrong

Yogi
11-27-2005, 01:03 PM
that is one mans opinion, just because hes a hall of fame manager that doesnt mean he knows how it would go down in the ring.they thought ali was going to get killed by foreman. but did he ? no, that just goes to show you things dont always happen the way you thought they would

That's only one opinion of a mythical matchup, yes, but's it's just a small example of how highly Langford was thought of during his fighting days. And those highest opinions of Langford are shared by MANY who were around during including writers, promoters, managers, trainers, etc...Charley Rose, for one, ranked Langford as the greatest Heavyweight of all-time. Heck, there's even quotes from some of the fighters who were around during Sam's time, like Harry Wills considering Langford to be "unbeatable in his prime" or Joe Jeannette considering Sam to be the "best all-around Heavyweight ever"...****, even one of the greatest Heavyweights of all-time, Jack Dempsey, is quoted as saying in 1970, "I think Sam Langford was the greatest fighter we ever had. Even at my best I don't know whether I could lick him or not."

That's only a couple of tiny examples of how highly Langford was thought of during his time, but there's plenty of info available on him if you are willing to do some reading...quotes from his time by those who saw him, fight reports, record (which two-thirds of those losses that you questioned earlier came after Sam was in his mid 30's and had already gone blind in his left eye...you conviently forgot to mention his 20+ victories against fellow HOF'ers or his numerous other wins against champions and/or top contenders who didn't make the HOF), and yes, like I said earlier there is some footage that's available of him and I also stated my opinion that he looked "spectacular!" in it. In fact, I believe I stated in another thread my opinion of Langford being the most talented/greatest looking fighter on film from the pre 1940's era (and I've seen quite a bit from before that time) and that's an opinion I will hold to.

Anyways, what's the deal with you bringing up the Ali/Foreman upset? Yeah beforehand most thought Foreman was going to win that fight and win big, so they were obviously proven wrong in that one. But, so what...I know I could, as I'm very sure you could as well, think of many different examples where the boxing "experts" predicted correct outcomes to a fight (much more often than not the pre-fight favourite usually wins), but is that really making a point?

Da Iceman
11-27-2005, 01:27 PM
can you tell me where i can see the fights? the point of that ali/foreman upset was to show you that langford might not beat joe like you think, it could be another upset

Yogi
11-28-2005, 01:47 PM
can you tell me where i can see the fights?

You mean on the internet?

If so, I wouldn't have any clue where to find them on the net. I have them on tape myself.

Dempsey 1919
11-28-2005, 03:54 PM
louis and langford would be a very good fight.

gilturnerson
01-14-2006, 06:52 PM
Henry armstrong is the only man to hold 3 titles in 3 different weight classes at the same time.Yes, Robinson did beat him but he beat a somewhat over the hill armstrong. But I would have to go with what my father always say's. And he would probably know better than me(Gil Turner) and he says Robinson. I am really stuck between armstrong and Robinson

Yaman
01-14-2006, 07:18 PM
As far as GREATEST OVERALL and not prime i know who's the greatest.

Joe Louis.

hellfire508
01-14-2006, 08:26 PM
The fact f the matter is that Ali is not even seen in the eyes of some boxing historians as the best heavyweight of all-time, some say Ali while others legitimately argue it is Joe Louis. But since this thread is not solely concerned with heavyweights....this is my p4p ranking

Sugar Ray Robinson
Billy Conn
Archie Moore
Gene Fullmer
Henry Armstrong

Billy Conn and Gene Fullmer?!?!

How come you rank them so high? Conn in number 6 on my light-heavy list, which was his best weight.

Fullmer was a great middleweight - barely top 10 though.

What did they do to make them rank higher than - for example, Roberto Duran?

hellfire508
01-15-2006, 04:59 AM
Frazier hates Ali to this day. Ali wants to be friends with Joe, and had apologized many times.

Oasis_Lad
01-15-2006, 05:14 AM
muhammad ali
suger ray robinson
joe louis
henry armstrong
marvin hagler

supaduck
01-15-2006, 08:10 AM
For me it'd be

1.Robinson
2.Ali
3.Louis
4.Leonard
5.Hagler

The Wire
01-15-2006, 08:57 AM
For me
1.) Robinson
2.) Ali
3.) Leonard
4.) Willy Pep
5.) Juan Lazcano

That last one's a joke

5.) Hagler

Yaman
01-15-2006, 10:01 AM
Frazier hates Ali to this day. Ali wants to be friends with Joe, and had apologized many times.

That's what you get for acting like a ****ing *******. Frazier didn't do anything to him and he was just making fun of him. Ali was a great guy but, he was always an ******* when it came to his opponents.

Imira
01-15-2006, 02:21 PM
The greatest boxer of all time? I won't even go there.

However I can think of a candidate...

Joe Louis
World heavyweight champion for 11 years, 252 days. Longer than any other prizefighter in any division.
25 successful title defenses. More than any other prize fighter in any division.

The best part about Louis is the fact that his opponents were always met with public approval. The general consensus wasn't; "Why is Louis fighting that guy?" when his next opponent was announced. Public approval is very important when it comes to opponents. And before anyone tries that "Bum of the Month" spin, I'll remind you that Louis got into the habit of defending his title once a month for six months straight and was always the heavy betting favorite. That's where the term comes from.

DarthJul
01-15-2006, 02:46 PM
don't forget rocky balboa :)

gLobE199
01-15-2006, 02:54 PM
hell yeah man rocky balboa ****ing ruels!!!

Dempsey1238
01-15-2006, 03:46 PM
you dont go around calling fellew blacks uncle Toms,(As Ali did Frazier.) That was the biggest insult one can do to a person like Joe Fraizer who fought for eveything.

Fraizer still hates Ali to this day.

dangerous dave
01-15-2006, 08:18 PM
1)Muhammed Ali
2)Larry Holmes
3)George Foreman
4)Joe Frazier
5)Lennox Lewis

This is a list of prime-vs-prime obviously. I can't get enough of Ali at the min, he was just simply amazing and could walk the walk after talking the best talk ever.
I think Larry was a technically brilliant fighter had the best use of a jab ever and was so close matching Marciano's winning record.
George Foreman was of course arguably the biggest puncher ever and showed what the old guys are capable of when he won the title at 45.
Joe Frazier of course had 3 amazing fights with Ali and was a worthy champion before being knocked for 6 by Foreman. Would have obviously held the belt for even longer had it not been for the best competition in hw boxing history.
Finally Lewis beat everyone he ever faced and was able to retire as champion and at the right time unlike many fighers in the past. Not a figther, a "pugilist specialist!"

Sorry for only mentioning heavyweights but thats what im into mainly

hellfire508
01-15-2006, 08:35 PM
1)Muhammed Ali
2)Larry Holmes
3)George Foreman
4)Joe Frazier
5)Lennox Lewis

This is a list of prime-vs-prime obviously. I can't get enough of Ali at the min, he was just simply amazing and could walk the walk after talking the best talk ever.
I think Larry was a technically brilliant fighter had the best use of a jab ever and was so close matching Marciano's winning record.
George Foreman was of course arguably the biggest puncher ever and showed what the old guys are capable of when he won the title at 45.
Joe Frazier of course had 3 amazing fights with Ali and was a worthy champion before being knocked for 6 by Foreman. Would have obviously held the belt for even longer had it not been for the best competition in hw boxing history.
Finally Lewis beat everyone he ever faced and was able to retire as champion and at the right time unlike many fighers in the past. Not a figther, a "pugilist specialist!"

Sorry for only mentioning heavyweights but thats what im into mainly

You need to get into the lower weight classes. There is nothing like watching Sugar Ray Robinson, or Ray Leonard, or Marvin Hagler, or Roberto Duran...

Or even today's lower weights: Gatti, DLH, Tszyu, Hatton, PBF, Taylor, Morales, Barrera...so much talent and excitement.

Dempsey1238
01-15-2006, 08:45 PM
I used to be all heavyweights lol.

But than I look for Gans, Nelson, Walker, Darcy, Ross, Benny L, Robinson, the lower weights are better figthters than the heavweights in general.

I would not have Lewis in the top 5 of the heavyweights either, as I feel Dempsey, Johnson, Marciano and others would have there way with him.

He does how ever make a lower top ten.

blockhead
01-15-2006, 09:55 PM
robinson was a 5 times champion
six times.

LS-Injection
01-15-2006, 10:19 PM
I used to be all heavyweights lol.

But than I look for Gans, Nelson, Walker, Darcy, Ross, Benny L, Robinson, the lower weights are better figthters than the heavweights in general.

I would not have Lewis in the top 5 of the heavyweights either, as I feel Dempsey, Johnson, Marciano and others would have there way with him.

He does how ever make a lower top ten.
How can you say that Lewis had a mean over-righthand……!!!

pgates123
01-25-2006, 02:15 PM
the greatest boxer of all time has to be oscar de la hoya, how does any beat his record of winning the wbc heavyweight title for 21 straight defenses against the likes of rocky marciano, jose luis castillo and angelos christianos

Oasis_Lad
01-25-2006, 02:23 PM
1:muhammad ali
2:sugar ray robinson
3:marvin hagler

juyjuy_returns
01-25-2006, 03:03 PM
1 ) Lennox Lewis
2 ) Mike Tyson
3 ) Evander Holyfield

VERSION1 (V1)
01-25-2006, 03:32 PM
1 ) Lennox Lewis
2 ) Mike Tyson
3 ) Evander Holyfield
your joking right

LS-Injection
01-25-2006, 03:45 PM
No i think he's not…

BBKing
01-27-2006, 09:58 PM
p4p I think it's Armstrong. Ali was the greatest heavyweight.

JaNnO
01-27-2006, 10:02 PM
Sugar Ray Robinson all the way.
Ali right behind him :)

that would be my vote too! ali is more popular tho coz of better technology during his times.

Tha Greatest
01-27-2006, 10:43 PM
aaaliiii, ali, ali, aliiiiiiii. no body betaaaaaa!

SHUT THE **** UP!

Dempsey 1919
01-27-2006, 10:45 PM
SHUT THE **** UP!

stop hatin' on thee greatest, fool!

http://www.sixtiescity.com/Events/Images/aliclay2.jpg

Tha Greatest
01-27-2006, 11:03 PM
stop hatin' on thee greatest, fool!

http://www.sixtiescity.com/Events/Images/aliclay2.jpg

I don't hate him.
He was a great fighter.

It's just that you mention his name multiple times, I love Ali and he was one of the greatest fighters of all time.

Had the most unbelievable physical talents, ever...
I believe Joe Louis would beat him though...

Dempsey1238
01-27-2006, 11:25 PM
Greb
Gans
Robinson.

Dempsey 1919
01-28-2006, 12:11 AM
I don't hate him.
He was a great fighter.

It's just that you mention his name multiple times, I love Ali and he was one of the greatest fighters of all time.

Had the most unbelievable physical talents, ever...
I believe Joe Louis would beat him though...

please, ali would handle louis worst than he did to liston.

blockhead
01-28-2006, 12:50 AM
please, ali would handle louis worst than he did to liston.
wow, you just made an ass of yourself again. there is no way on allah's green earth that ali would fare better against THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION EVER than he did against a dive taking turd like liston. watch some fights you ****ing moron before you start to post.

Dempsey 1919
01-28-2006, 01:23 AM
wow, you just made an ass of yourself again. there is no way on allah's green earth that ali would fare better against THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION EVER than he did against a dive taking turd like liston. watch some fights you ****ing moron before you start to post.

yeah, sure louis was the greatest. his best wins came against max schmeling, billy conn, and jersey joe watcott, while ali's biggest wins came against george foreman, sonny liston, and joe frazier. friggin' foreman, liston, and frazier were better than louis IMO.

yeah, talk about the second ali fight all you want. watch the first fight and you will see that louis would not have fared any better. liston is a bit faster on his feet that louis, is bigger, stronger, and hits harder, so ali would probably have an easier time with prime louis than prime liston. just my opinion though.

and i do watch fights, idiot. you obviously have not been doing your H.W. ali's speed and power in 1967 would be too much for joe louis at any age.

supaduck
01-28-2006, 07:45 AM
Exactly what I'd say, Ali beats Louis.

Heckler
01-29-2006, 08:34 PM
You have to look at more than his loss column to realize Sam Langford's greatness.

I think its unfair to compare different divisions. And the P4P comparisons are invalid too. If someones size changes all of sudden, say Ali... his training would be different, his speed, his conditioning... there are too many variables..... but i will anyway.

Ali - robinson was a better boxer technically yes, but ali posessed a few intangible qualities such as heart and ringsmarts which i believe give him this number one position

Robinson - Technical Master.

Louis - Technically brilliant and powerful.

Heckler
01-29-2006, 08:40 PM
please, ali would handle louis worst than he did to liston.

Dude, stop this ****. Louis would give ALI SOME REAL PROBLEMS. You wonder why people get pissed off with you and get sick of hearing about Ali? its your ****en attitude makking out that hes God. Look at Ali vs Norton, see how Norton jabs Ali onto the ropes, now imagine that with about twice the technical prowess and power... Ali in his prime, yeah he would have the speed to get away with it and win... but only after having the **** smacked out of him.

Heckler
01-29-2006, 08:46 PM
That's what you get for acting like a ****ing *******. Frazier didn't do anything to him and he was just making fun of him. Ali was a great guy but, he was always an ******* when it came to his opponents.

Ali was a great guy. However he could go too far, and be too cruel. He did it to create hype, nothing else... and he admits to this day that he took it to far. Ali wasn't perfect.

Dempsey 1919
01-30-2006, 10:44 AM
Dude, stop this ****. Louis would give ALI SOME REAL PROBLEMS. You wonder why people get pissed off with you and get sick of hearing about Ali? its your ****en attitude makking out that hes God. Look at Ali vs Norton, see how Norton jabs Ali onto the ropes, now imagine that with about twice the technical prowess and power... Ali in his prime, yeah he would have the speed to get away with it and win... but only after having the **** smacked out of him.

louis is too small, too slow, and too physically weak to give ali any real problems. frazier would give him problems, tyson would give him problems in the beginning, holmes would give him problems, maybe even norton, but never louis.

The Noose
01-30-2006, 04:25 PM
louis is too small, too slow, and too physically weak to give ali any real problems. frazier would give him problems, tyson would give him problems in the beginning, holmes would give him problems, maybe even norton, but never louis.

I think Louis is underrated.

His speed is definatly underrated.

He was incredibly good at making his oppents make mistakes and making them pay.
He shots were put together brilliantly, and his defence was very subtle but effective.

If Ali gets knocked down by Henry Cooper...Louis would have KO'd him.

But Ali at his best is too much for Louis.

Dempsey 1919
01-30-2006, 04:39 PM
I think Louis is underrated.

how is louis underrated if many people say he's the best hw ever? he's definetely not underrated, in fact he is a bit overrated cause the opponents he fought made him look better than he actually was. sure he was great, any body who can have 25 title defenses and be king of the world for 12 years deserves props, but he is not the indestructible killing machine many people say he is. there are at least 5 or 6 people in my opinion who could beat prime louis.

blockhead
01-30-2006, 04:41 PM
how is louis underrated if many people say he's the best hw ever? he's definetely not underrated, in fact he is a bit overrated cause the opponents he fought made him look better than he actually was. sure he was great, any body who can have 25 title defenses and be king of the world for 12 years deserves props, but he is not the indestructible killing machine many people say he is. there are at least 5 or 6 people in my opinion who could beat prime louis.
you are the single biggest idiot and nuthugger on boxing scene.

Southpaw Stinger
01-30-2006, 04:42 PM
If Ali gets knocked down by Henry Cooper...Louis would have KO'd him.

Just remember that Ali underated Cooper's left hook and was destroying Cooper and taunting him. The left hook that floored him came as a surprise, but he got straight up. Ali never got KO'd though.

Dempsey 1919
01-30-2006, 04:45 PM
you are the single biggest idiot and nuthugger on boxing scene.

yeah, instead of giving reasons and facts to combat my response, you resort to name calling. probably cause you can't think of anything else to say. :D

blockhead
01-30-2006, 04:50 PM
yeah, instead of giving reasons and facts to combat my response, you resort to name calling. probably cause you can't think of anything else to say. :D
yup, thats it. in reality i and most of the people here are sick of calling you out for the same bull**** about ali and how you constantly over rate fighters he beat or lost to but always cut down great fighters that he didnt like joe louis. your an ass dude, you dont know **** about this sport and it shows every time you post.

Dempsey 1919
01-30-2006, 04:56 PM
yup, thats it. in reality i and most of the people here are sick of calling you out for the same bull**** about ali and how you constantly over rate fighters he beat or lost to but always cut down great fighters that he didnt like joe louis. your an ass dude, you dont know **** about this sport and it shows every time you post.

it's just my opinion, and i do give reasons for my response. i don't just say it and don't back it up.

blockhead
01-30-2006, 04:58 PM
it's just my opinion, and i do give reasons for my response. i don't just say it and don't back it up.
your reasons are nonsense and biased. therefore they are invalid and not even worth reading anymore. watch some ****ing film on other boxers besides ali and try other weight classes too and then you will have more to talk about and you wont look like such a moron and nuthugger everytime you post.

Dempsey 1919
01-30-2006, 05:04 PM
your reasons are nonsense and biased. therefore they are invalid and not even worth reading anymore. watch some ****ing film on other boxers besides ali and try other weight classes too and then you will have more to talk about and you wont look like such a moron and nuthugger everytime you post.

yeah, sure they're biased. :rolleyes: someone saying that marciano could beat ali or foreman because he is white and he was "undefeated" IMO is biased, more biased than the posts i make. as i say before, louis was great, marciano was great, dempsey, johnson, and others around those time periods were great. but the way boxing and other sports evolve over time, do you think that on average the fghters from 60 years ago could beat the fighters say, 20 years ago? nope, so if i say that ali could beat louis and i say it's beacause ali was fast and could avoid louis' punches and all that, then i don't see why that's such a bad thing to say?

blockhead
01-30-2006, 05:08 PM
yeah, sure they're biased. :rolleyes: someone saying that marciano could beat ali or foreman because he is white and he was "undefeated" IMO is biased, more biased than the posts i make. as i say before, louis was great, marciano was great, dempsey, johnson, and others around those time periods were great. but the way boxing and other sports evolve over time, do you think that on average the fghters from 60 years ago could beat the fighters say, 20 years ago? nope, so if i say that ali could beat louis and i say it's beacause ali was fast and could avoid louis' punches and all that, then i don't see why that's such a bad thing to say?
anyone who says that marciano would beat foreman or ali, is just as biased as you are against the great fighters of the lower weight classes. and your pumping of floyd pattersons **** in other thread s while you are lowering louis is absurd. wake up expand your horizons.

Yogi
01-30-2006, 05:13 PM
louis is too small, too slow, and too physically weak

You know, Butterfly...sometimes I wonder if you've seen even one Joe Louis fight, because some of the stuff you say about him is utter nonsense. Either that, or you feel so threatened by those who think he was greater than Ali that you feel the need to downplay the talents that Louis obviously showed during his career.

At 6'2-200/205, he was not too small for Ali. If you're going to signal out only two fights from 1967 as Ali's "prime", then do the same friggin for Louis when he weighed about 207 vs. Simon & Baer, in fights where some people thought were Joe's best performances (Nat Fleischer, for one)...Fair is fair, right?

Louis also had some of the fastest & most destructive hands ever seen on a Heavyweight, and even though his foot speed doesn't look that fast (which was entirely his choice), he did have some pretty quick feet when the need arised (the fight with Max Baer shows this, as Louis showed quickness of foot in evading Baer's attacks on a couple of occasions).

And if you're going to criticize Louis' strength, you might want to watch his fight with Primo Carnera, who as a former strongman, can certainly count pure strength as one of his main attributes...Louis actually outmuscled Carnera in the trenches for much of that fight, and succeeded in pushing his much larger opponent back on a few occasions.

blockhead
01-30-2006, 05:14 PM
You know, Butterfly...sometimes I wonder if you've seen even one Joe Louis fight, because some of the stuff you say about him is utter nonsense. Either that, or you feel so threatened by those who think he was greater than Ali that you feel the need to downplay the talents that Louis obviously showed during his career.

At 6'2-200/205, he was not too small for Ali. If you're going to signal out only two fights from 1967 as Ali's "prime", then do the same friggin for Louis when he weighed about 207 vs. Simon & Baer, in fights where some people thought were Joe's best performances (Nat Fleischer, for one)...Fair is fair, right?

Louis also had some of the fastest & most destructive hands ever seen on a Heavyweight, and even though his foot speed doesn't look that fast (which was entirely his choice), he did have some pretty quick feet when the need arised (the fight with Max Baer shows this, as Louis showed quickness of foot in evading Baer's attacks on a couple of occasions).

And if you're going to criticize Louis' strength, you might want to watch his fight with Primo Carnera, who as a former strongman, can certainly count pure strength as one of his main attributes...Louis actually outmuscled Carnera in the trenches for much of that fight, and succeeded in pushing his much larger opponent back on a few occasions.

he hasnt seen louis fight, its obvious by his posts. thanks yogi

Dempsey 1919
01-30-2006, 05:26 PM
he hasnt seen louis fight, its obvious by his posts. thanks yogi

lol, i havent seen louis fight?

i'll do this in chronological order.

jack johnson vs. tommy burns 1908
jack johnson vs. stanley ketchel 1909
jack johnson vs. james jeffries 1910
jack johnson vs. jess willard 1915
jack dempsey vs. jess willard 1919
jack dempsey vs. georges carpentier 1921
jack dempsey vs. tommy gibbons 1923
jack dempsey vs. luis angel firpo 1923
jack dempsey vs. gene tunney I 1926
gene tunney vs. jack dempsey II 1927
primo carnera vs. max baer 1934
joe louis vs. charley retzlaff 1936
joe louis vs. max schmeling I 1936
joe louis vs. max schmeling II 1938
max baer vs. pat comiskey 1940
joe louis vs. billy conn I 1941
joe louis vs. abe simon II 1942
joe louis vs. jersey joe walcott II 1948
joe louis vs. ezzard charles 1950
joe louis vs. rocky marciano 1951
rocky marciano vs. jersey joe walcott I 1952
rocky marciano vs. jersey joe walcott II 1953
rocky marciano vs. roland lastarza II 1953
rocky marciano vs. archie moore 1955
floyd patterson vs. tommy jackson II 1957
floyd patterson vs. ingemmar johannson I 1959
floyd patterson vs. ingemmar johannson II 1960
floyd patterson vs. ingemmar johannson III 1961
cassius clay vs. alonzo johnson 1961
cassius clay vs. billy daniels 1962
floyd patterson vs. sonny liston I 1962
cassius clay vs. archie moore 1962
cassius clay vs. doug jones 1963
cassius clay vs. henry cooper I 1963
sonny liston vs. floyd patterson II 1963
sonny liston vs. cassius clay I 1964
floyd patterson vs. george chuvalo 1965
muhammad ali vs. sonny liston II 1965
muhammad ali vs. floyd patterson I 1965
muhammad ali vs. george chuvalo I 1966
muhammad ali vs. henry cooper II 1966
muhammad ali vs. karl mildenburger 1966
joe frazier vs. oscar bonavena I 1966
joe frazier vs. eddie machen 1966
muhammad ali vs. ernie terrel 1967
muhammad ali vs. zora folley 1967
joe frazier vs. buster mathis 1968
sonny liston vs. leotis martin 1969
joe frazier vs. jimmy ellis 1970
muhammad ali vs. jerry quarry I 1970
joe frazier vs. bob foster 1970
muhammad ali vs. oscar bonavena 1970
muhammad ali vs. joe frazier I 1971 (the greatest fight of all time)
muhammad ali vs. jurgen blin 1971
joe frazier vs. ron stander 1972
joe frazier vs. george foreman I 1973
muhammad ali vs. joe frazier II 1974
joe frazier vs. jerry quarry II 1974
george foreman vs. muhammad ali 1974
muhammad ali vs. chuck wepner 1975
muhammad ali vs. ron lyle 1975
muhammad ali vs. joe frazier III 1975
muhammad ali vs. leon spinks II 1978
larry holmes vs. muhammad ali 1980 (the saddest fight of all time )
mike tyson vs. rick spain 1985
mike tyson vs. john alderson 1985
mike tyson vs. michael jack johnson 1985
mike tyson vs. donnie long 1985
mike tyson vs. robert colay 1985
mike tyson vs. eddie richardson 1985
mike tyson vs. sammy scaff 1985
mike tyson vs. mark young 1985
mike tyson vs. mike jameson 1986
mike tyson vs. steve zouski 1986
mike tyson vs. reggie gross 1986
mike tyson vs. lorenzo boyd 1986
mike tyson vs. larry holmes 1988
mike tyson vs. michael spinks 1988
mike tyson vs. frank bruno I 1989
mike tyson vs. james "buster" douglass 1990

that's about it for the hw's!

this is from the thread which asks which fights people have.

Dempsey 1919
01-30-2006, 05:27 PM
anyone who says that marciano would beat foreman or ali, is just as biased as you are against the great fighters of the lower weight classes. and your pumping of floyd pattersons **** in other thread s while you are lowering louis is absurd. wake up expand your horizons.

lol, did i say patterson would beat louis? i think louis would ko patterson in about 3 or four rounds, so enough said on that.

Yogi
01-30-2006, 05:36 PM
do you think that on average the fghters from 60 years ago could beat the fighters say, 20 years ago?

Most ****ing definately!

Are you kidding me?

Sugar Ray Robinson, Willie Pep, Ezzard Charles, Marcel Cerdan, Ike Williams, Manuel Ortiz, Archie Moore, Jake Lamotta, Charley Burley, Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery, Sandy Saddler, Tony Zale etc., etc...

With just that group right there, I'll go to war with ANY era in boxing history, and "on average" I will certainly like my chances of coming out on top.

blockhead
01-30-2006, 05:37 PM
lol, did i say patterson would beat louis? i think louis would ko patterson in about 3 or four rounds, so enough said on that.
then you have contradicted yourself again. i cannot stand to read another one of your ****ing reatard posts. you are now on my ignore list. seeing your post is nothing more than an irritation and i feel like i have to reply to your stupidity so now i am going to make it so i cant see them at all.

Dempsey 1919
01-30-2006, 05:39 PM
then you have contradicted yourself again.

how? i have never said that patterson could beat louis. never! find a post that states that. no way in hell i would say something like that either.

The Noose
01-30-2006, 08:45 PM
how is louis underrated if many people say he's the best hw ever?

Read my post again without editing it.

Ive heard many times people saying Louis was slow.

His speed was underrated.

-EX-
01-31-2006, 01:43 AM
I'd have to say of all-time Sugar Ray Robinson.

Frazier's 15th round
01-31-2006, 05:27 AM
I wouldn't say Butterfly is the biggest Ali nuthugger around. He actually calls FOTC the greatest fight of all time, rather than the Thrilla in Manila or Rumble in the Jungle, which I've never seen any other Ali fan say. He also says that some guys could beat a Prime Muhammad Ali (as little of a chance that he gives them, at least he is realistic, unlike people who say Prime Ali would never even be touched), so I don't think he's the biggest nuthugger. Although I think he needs to give Joe Louis a little more credit. :D

Brassangel
01-31-2006, 10:46 AM
He does claim that Muhammad Ali 1967 was too fast for everybody and their gun. For some reason there was a parallel universe for a couple of fights in 67 where Ali rests comfortably on a cloud above everybody else who's crawling in the dirt. He touts this 1967 Ali while pointing out the down times of other fighter's careers. It's a one-sided affair in his world, but he does give a nugget of credit to other fighters every once and a while.

Butterfly also states that Ali could have been beaten in his prime, but not in 1967. Then he will tell you that, in every fight before that year, Ali was green. He will also say that Ali lost "all" of his speed when he returned (which is not true) in 1970. So, his prime seems to be for less than a one year span, where he could be beaten, and yet he was too fast for everybody at the same time. These are the regular comments you will see from butterfly1964 when defending Ali.

Now, since butterfly is sure to respond to this post, I will point out ahead of time that nobody is really recording your comments, so don't ask me or anyone else to list a spot where you said specific things.

Back on topic:

1. Robinson
2. Ali
3. Louis
4. About 50 others.

Keep in mind, this doesn't mean that these fighters could beat everybody under them, it's just a matter of quality wins, championship reigns, style, etc.

tjmoney
01-31-2006, 10:49 AM
Ricky Hatton










J/K dont hate too harshly now

Yaman
01-31-2006, 11:42 AM
Most succesfull boxer in the ring with accomplishments(Wich is probably how everybody judges the top 10).

1-Joe Louis
2-Muhammed Ali
3-Ray Robinson
4-Rocky Marciano
5-Mike Tyson
6-George Foreman
7-Roy Jones Jr.
8-Lennox Lewis
9-Ray Leonard
10-Marvin Hagler

Greatest boxers at their prime, fully trained, physically and mentally ready to fight.

1-Mike Tyson
2-Joe Louis
3-Muhammed Ali
4-Ray Robinson
5-Larry Holmes
6-Roy Jones Jr.
7-George Foreman
8-Rocky Marciano
9-Lennox Lewis
10-Joe Frazier

Dempsey 1919
01-31-2006, 03:54 PM
then you have contradicted yourself again. i cannot stand to read another one of your ****ing reatard posts. you are now on my ignore list. seeing your post is nothing more than an irritation and i feel like i have to reply to your stupidity so now i am going to make it so i cant see them at all.

lol, your putting me on ignore? and that really ruined my life forever, lol! :rolleyes: it's really me who should be putting you on ignore, because you seem to follow me around and flame me for no reason, even on threads not related to boxing. wow, i don't even bother you or anything. you just come on here, flame me, and now your putting me on ignore? for what? if you don't like what i write then don't read it, or come on the threads i make and start **** ****sucker! i didn't really want to stoop to your level and resort to name calling, but retards like you make me so mad and ****. so go ahead, put me on ignore, *****! i don't give a ****, you ****ing cunt. :mad:

doowopernie
01-31-2006, 09:28 PM
Did any of you have the good fortune to see Sugar Ray Robinson in his prime? He was "The Greatest". To me hands down,The Best. A fighter, a boxer, a ring technician the likes of which only come along few and far between. I can't argue with people who choose Ali,but, I certainly can and do disagree.

DooWop Ernie

czars_salad
01-31-2006, 09:32 PM
the greatest boxer of all time:

http://a1259.g.akamai.net/f/1259/5586/1d/images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/large/10104000/10104799.jpg

RockyMarcianofan00
01-31-2006, 11:58 PM
the greatest boxer of all time:

http://a1259.g.akamai.net/f/1259/5586/1d/images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/large/10104000/10104799.jpg


yea man butterbean is awesome :boxing:
________
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Dempsey 1919
02-01-2006, 12:02 AM
yea man butterbean is awesome :boxing:

haha, lol!

RockyMarcianofan00
02-01-2006, 12:12 AM
Most succesfull boxer in the ring with accomplishments(Wich is probably how everybody judges the top 10).

1-Joe Louis
2-Muhammed Ali
3-Ray Robinson
4-Rocky Marciano
5-Mike Tyson
6-George Foreman
7-Roy Jones Jr.
8-Lennox Lewis
9-Ray Leonard
10-Marvin Hagler

Greatest boxers at their prime, fully trained, physically and mentally ready to fight.

1-Mike Tyson
2-Joe Louis
3-Muhammed Ali
4-Ray Robinson
5-Larry Holmes
6-Roy Jones Jr.
7-George Foreman
8-Rocky Marciano
9-Lennox Lewis
10-Joe Frazier

i'm not trying to be a nuthugger but i think rocky marciano would be put further up that chart, and here's my reason and pls argue it if you think i'm wrong i ain't gunna get pissed, but rocky marciano never was out of shape until he retired, the only time he ever wasn't in tip top condition between fights was after he put Carmine Vingo in the Coma, when he did that, he trained a total of 2 weeks for that fight becasue the rest of the time he was either in the hospital waiting for updates on vingo's condition or in church praying for vingo. thats why he was so ****ty against lastarza. had he trained for the fight like he usually would have he would have done what he did to him in the rematch.

beside that no complaints thats a very accurate list
________
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Heckler
02-01-2006, 01:35 AM
i'm not trying to be a nuthugger but i think rocky marciano would be put further up that chart, and here's my reason and pls argue it if you think i'm wrong i ain't gunna get pissed, but rocky marciano never was out of shape until he retired, the only time he ever wasn't in tip top condition between fights was after he put Carmine Vingo in the Coma, when he did that, he trained a total of 2 weeks for that fight becasue the rest of the time he was either in the hospital waiting for updates on vingo's condition or in church praying for vingo. thats why he was so ****ty against lastarza. had he trained for the fight like he usually would have he would have done what he did to him in the rematch.

beside that no complaints thats a very accurate list

I wouldn't have rocky ANY higher then that, he was undefeated in the weakest era of boxing minus or on par with the current. If his record included ONE loss, which i believe he did... and im sure you know what match im talking about... he wouldn't be in the top 5 of any sportswriters list.

Heckler
02-01-2006, 01:37 AM
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/rocky.html

Read that, explains what im getting at very well.

Heckler
02-01-2006, 01:46 AM
Just remember that Ali underated Cooper's left hook and was destroying Cooper and taunting him. The left hook that floored him came as a surprise, but he got straight up. Ali never got KO'd though.

Ali never underrated coopers right hook. A young, naieve Clay underrated Coopers right hook.

AntonioMartin
02-01-2006, 05:08 AM
My all time favorite was Wilfredo Gomez. Ali was the greatest, of course.

fabulous
02-04-2006, 05:25 AM
its hard to say but its between ali and robinson, i preferred alis style because he took sugar rays style and improved it

:-D

Average Ali fanboy is usually clueless in boxing.
Robinson with Ali style could never be same level he was. Only in heavyweight you can get away with Ali's flawed style. Ali had talent close to Robinson's level but he didn't have his skills, his power, his technique. Only thing Ali had better than Robinson was footwork when he was dancing. But Robinson had still better classic footwork.

Yaman
02-04-2006, 08:49 AM
i'm not trying to be a nuthugger but i think rocky marciano would be put further up that chart, and here's my reason and pls argue it if you think i'm wrong i ain't gunna get pissed, but rocky marciano never was out of shape until he retired, the only time he ever wasn't in tip top condition between fights was after he put Carmine Vingo in the Coma, when he did that, he trained a total of 2 weeks for that fight becasue the rest of the time he was either in the hospital waiting for updates on vingo's condition or in church praying for vingo. thats why he was so ****ty against lastarza. had he trained for the fight like he usually would have he would have done what he did to him in the rematch.

beside that no complaints thats a very accurate list

I've thought about it and i think you have a point. Some of the fighters on my list had their flaws and weren't 100% ready to fight in their whole career like Rocky. I think this is the list.


Greatest boxers at their prime, fully trained, physically and mentally ready to fight.

1-Mike Tyson
2-Joe Louis
3-Ray Robinson
4-Muhammed Ali
5-Rocky Marciano
6-Roy Jones Jr.
7-George Foreman
8-Larry Holmes
9-Lennox Lewis
10-Joe Frazier

Da Iceman
02-04-2006, 05:13 PM
i'm not trying to be a nuthugger but i think rocky marciano would be put further up that chart, and here's my reason and pls argue it if you think i'm wrong i ain't gunna get pissed, but rocky marciano never was out of shape until he retired, the only time he ever wasn't in tip top condition between fights was after he put Carmine Vingo in the Coma, when he did that, he trained a total of 2 weeks for that fight becasue the rest of the time he was either in the hospital waiting for updates on vingo's condition or in church praying for vingo. thats why he was so ****ty against lastarza. had he trained for the fight like he usually would have he would have done what he did to him in the rematch.

beside that no complaints thats a very accurate list
gotta agree with you