View Full Version : Great Heavies-How Would They Have Fared Against The Bigger Fighters Of Today?


MasterODisaster
10-28-2011, 09:38 PM
Sorry if this has been asked before (i'm sure it has), but i'm just wondering how people think that the the all time great heavies would do against much larger and skilled fighters of today.

How would the likes of Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Marchiano, Louis, etc, etc.. do against say, the Klit Bros., Lewis, Bowe, Tyson (all prime vs. prime of course for all fighters)?

On a final note, what are the old timers opinions on Jack Johnson? I saw a great documentary on him and it was incredible! Any cool books about Jack and his life that anyone can recommend?

Scott9945
10-28-2011, 10:25 PM
On a final note, what are the old timers opinions on Jack Johnson? I saw a great documentary on him and it was incredible! Any cool books about Jack and his life that anyone can recommend?

I'd definitely recommend Johnson's autobiography. I found it fascinating and it was so funny how shameless Johnson was with his enormous ego.

JAB5239
10-28-2011, 10:32 PM
I'd definitely recommend Johnson's autobiography. I found it fascinating and it was so funny how shameless Johnson was with his enormous ego.


What I found interesting is that as a child Johnson grew up playing with white children and there was no prejudice, and this was in Texas. It wasn't till he got older that he was exposed to racism. In essence, racists created the thing they hated and feared most.

MasterODisaster
10-29-2011, 10:48 AM
Sounds like a great read, i'll look for it on Amazon and ebay. Thanks guys.

And that is weird about the racism thing when he was growing up.

Did you guys see the documentary about his, it was pretty good and had some great footage of him.

SCtrojansbaby
10-29-2011, 11:07 AM
Obviously guys like Ali and Foreman would still be greats but the Marciano's and Joe Louis' would be cruiserweights

JAB5239
10-29-2011, 01:39 PM
Obviously guys like Ali and Foreman would still be greats but the Marciano's and Joe Louis' would be cruiserweights

Joe Louis was 6'2" and trained down to 205lbs. Put him on steroids like everyone else today, let him eat till he's a pudgy little butterball, play golf every day and **** all night and he's still better than EVERY heavyweight in the world today.

DarkTerror88
10-29-2011, 07:07 PM
Joe Louis was 6'2" and trained down to 205lbs. Put him on steroids like everyone else today, let him eat till he's a pudgy little butterball, play golf every day and **** all night and he's still better than EVERY heavyweight in the world today.

Preach, :hail:


:headbang: :headbang:

GJC
10-31-2011, 11:51 AM
Obviously guys like Ali and Foreman would still be greats but the Marciano's and Joe Louis' would be cruiserweights
Holyfield and Ruiz who has been pretty competitive over the last 20 years arn't too much bigger than Louis. It ain't too hard to have an extra few steaks and "supplements" and put on 10-20 lbs you know.
Valuev totally wipes out your size argument, big HWs are not a novelty been around for 100 years and like "small" heavyweights will be around another 100 years.

McGoorty
10-31-2011, 12:05 PM
Sorry if this has been asked before (i'm sure it has), but i'm just wondering how people think that the the all time great heavies would do against much larger and skilled fighters of today.

How would the likes of Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Marchiano, Louis, etc, etc.. do against say, the Klit Bros., Lewis, Bowe, Tyson (all prime vs. prime of course for all fighters)?

On a final note, what are the old timers opinions on Jack Johnson? I saw a great documentary on him and it was incredible! Any cool books about Jack and his life that anyone can recommend?
An Article on Boxing for 1956.....1956 BOXING

"Sugar" Ray Robinson dodging a blow by "Bobo" Olson in their middleweight championship fight at Los Angeles, Calif., May 18, 1956. A few seconds after this picture was made Robinson knocked out Olson to regain the title.
Boxing in the United States continued on a steady keel during 1956, despite widespread investigations, notably in New York, Pennsylvania and California; the retirement, as undefeated world heavyweight champion, of Rocky Marciano; and the fact that for the first time in a number of years no big summer outdoor shows were held in New York city, once the stronghold of boxing.

World Championship Matches.
With the voluntary relinquishing of the heavyweight crown by Rocky Marciano on April 27, 1956, an elimination series was held to determine his successor. Floyd Patterson and Archie Moore, world light heavy-weight champion, were the finalists, a bout between them, how-ever, being held off because of an injured hand suffered by Patterson in his winning fight against Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson. The match was finally held at Chicago, Ill., on Nov. 30, and Floyd Patterson knocked out Archie Moore in the fifth round to become the new heavyweight champion of the world.
Archie Moore successfully defended his 175-lb. title by stop-ping Yolande Pompey of the British West Indies in the tenth round at the Harringay arena, London, Eng., on June 5. Moore later (July 25) knocked out James J. Parker, Canadian heavy-weight champion, in a bout in Toronto, Ont., which was advertised as for the world heavyweight championship but which was merely another elimination contest.
Ray Robinson defended his world middleweight title once knocking out Carl (Bobo) Olson in the fourth round on May 18 at Wrigley field, Los Angeles, Calif. A crowd of more than 20,000 paid $228,500 to view the fight.
Johnny Saxton regained the world welterweight title he had lost the year previously by outpointing Carmen Basilio over 15 rounds at Chicago stadium, Chicago, Ill., on March 14. The fight grossed $104.288. In a return bout, on Sept. 12, at War Memorial stadium, Syracuse, N.Y.. Basilio rewon the welterweight title by knocking out Saxton in the ninth round.
Joe Brown won the world lightweight championship by gaining a split i5-round decision over Wallace (Bud) Smith, the title-holder, at New Orleans. La.. on Aug. 24.
Sandy Saddler retained his world featherweight title by a technical knockout of Gabriel (Flash) Elorde of the Philippines in the 13th round on Jan. 18 at the Cow Palace, San Francisco, Calif. Saddler was later injured in an automobile accident which kept him inactive for a short while.
Mario d'Agata of Italy, a deaf-mute, won the world bantam-weight championship by stopping Robert Cohen at the end of the sixth round on June 29 at the Foro Italico, Rome. It. D'Agata was the first deaf-mute ever to win a world boxing championship.
Pascual Perez of Argentina, the world flyweight champion, de-fended his title three times, winning a 15-round decision from Leo Espinosa of the Philippines at Buenos Aires, Arg. (Jan. ir), winning over Oscar Suarez of Cuba by a technical knockout in 11 rounds at Montevideo. Urug. (June 30), and stopping Ricardo Valdez in five rounds at Tandil, Arg. (Aug. 3).

Boxing Hall of Fame.
Seven new members were elected to the Boxing Hall of Fame in 1956. The Hall of Fame was inaugurated in 1954 by the Ring magazine and is housed in the Ring museum in Madison Square Garden. The board of directors voted in one pioneer of the game, Peter Jackson. The Old Timers' committee elected two, George Dixon and Jem Driscoll. The modern group named four, Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross,Tommy Loughran and Jimmy McLarnin.
The following is a complete list of those who had been elected to the Hall of Fame:
Pioneer Group.***8212;James Figg, Tom Cribb, Jem Mace, Tom Sayers, Gentleman John Jackson, Arthur Chambers. John C. Heenan, William Richmond, Nonpareil Jack Dempsey, Jack Broughton, Daniel Mendoza, Tom Hyer, Young Griffo, John Morrissey, John L. Sullivan, Jack McAuliffe, William Thompson (Bendigo) and Peter Jackson.
Old Timers' Group.***8212;Stanley Ketchel, Jack Johnson, James J. Corbett, Terry McGovern, Abe Attell, George Dixon, Joe Gans, Bob Fitzsimmons, James J. Jeffries, Sam Langford, Joe Walcott and Jem Driscoll.
Modern Group.***8212;Jack Dempsey, Henry Armstrong, Harry Greb, Joe Louis, Mickey Walker, Gene Tunney, Benny Leonard, Tony Canzoneri, Timmy Mcarnin Barney Ross and Tommy Loughran......................................... Just thought this might help take you back..

McGoorty
10-31-2011, 12:07 PM
And a bonus/////////////......................................1952 BOXING

Rocky Marciano jubilant after the count which made him world heavyweight boxing champion on Sept., 1952. He defeated Jersey Joe Walcott by a knockout in the 13th round of their title match at Philadelphia, Pa.
Diminishing box-office returns at professional boxing matches during 1952 caused television to be viewed increasingly as a principal source of income for the sport. The development of theatre television was believed by many to have advanced the day when box-office receipts should become inconsequential.
At the same time, television posed a problem. Its operation was contributing to the depletion of the ranks of boxers under development. Small clubs, the incubators of boxing down through the years, found it impossible to operate without a television sponsor and the big networks sought only the prominent boxers. Since the International Boxing club of New York enjoyed prior contract privileges on every ring champion with the exception of the bantamweight and flyweight, the I.B.C. had the television field practically to itself.
In theatre television several important bouts were beamed to theatres at which admissions were charged, and at which boxing was the specific attraction. There was a distinct trend, particularly so since under such circumstances the spectacle was blacked out for home television consumption. One of the bouts affected by the blackout was the match in which Rocky Marciano, Brockton, Mass., knocked out Jersey Joe Walcott, Camden, N.J., in 13 rounds, to gain the world heavyweight title. This bout was held in Philadelphia, Pa., Sept. 23. It provided the year's most dramatic battle. Marciano, unbeaten in 43 bouts, boasting 38 knockouts in a meteoric career. increasingly as a principal source of income for the sport. The development of theatre television was believed by many to have advanced the day when box-office receipts should become inconsequential. At the same time, television posed a problem. Its operation was contributing to the depletion of the ranks of boxers under development. Small clubs, the incubators of boxing down through the years, found it impossible to operate without a television sponsor and the big networks sought only the prominent boxers. Since the International Boxing club of New York enjoyed prior contract privileges on every ring champion with the exception of the bantamweight and flyweight, the I.B.C. had the television field practically to itself. In theatre television several important bouts were beamed to theatres at which admissions were charged, and at which boxing was the specific attraction. There was a distinct trend, particularly so since under such circumstances the spectacle was blacked out for home television consumption. One of the bouts affected by the blackout was the match in which Rocky Marciano, Brockton, Mass., knocked out Jersey Joe Walcott, Camden, N.J., in 13 rounds, to gain the world heavyweight title. This bout was held in Philadelphia, Pa., Sept. 23. It provided the year's most dramatic battle. Marciano, unbeaten in 43 bouts, boasting 38 knockouts in a meteoric career. became the first unbeaten heavyweight ever to win the title as well as the first white boxer to gain the title since Joe Louis dethroned James J. Braddock in 1937 at Chicago, Ill. The match attracted 40,379 persons and box office receipts of $504,645, the year's biggest gate. An I.B.C. spokesman estimated an additional sum of $550,000 from motion pictures, and the radio-television income was said to be $125,000.
The largest crowd of the year was attracted to a light-heavyweight championship between Joey Maxim, Cleveland, O., de-fending champion, and Ray Robinson, New York, holder of the world middleweight title. This bout took place at the Yankee stadium, New York city, June 25, in a heat wave that registered 104 at the ringside, and ended with Maxim credited with a knockout victory when Robinson, victim of heat prostration, could not respond to the bell starting the 14th round. A crowd of 47,983 was reported, with receipts of $421,615. The result was a surprise since at the time the bout ended Robinson had victory well in hand. Robinson shared another of the year's large gate receipts attractions when he knocked out Rocky Graziano, Brooklyn, N.Y., a former champion, to retain his world middleweight title. This bout was fought in Chicago on April 16, before 22,264 persons who paid receipts of $252,237. Robinson had previously defended his title against Carl (Bobo) Olson, Hawaii, at San Francisco, Calif., March 13. In December the New York State Athletic commission declared Robinson's middleweight title "vacated" because of his failure to defend the championship once every six months as required by commission rules.
A total of 15 championship matches were held up to December. Five changes were recorded. Walcott had defended his heavyweight title against the former champion, Ezzard Charles, Cincinnati, O., in a 15-round bout at Philadelphia, June 5, before signing for the Marciano bout.

McGoorty
10-31-2011, 12:10 PM
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=gentleman%20john%20jackson%20boxing&source=web&cd=48&ved=0CEcQFjAHOCg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paperpast.com%2Fhtml%2F1956_b oxing.html&ei=t7euTvzOAqyaiQfwprnnDw&usg=AFQjCNFbXJ-yXLisgkPEWvPFjScYKV8W7Q&sig2=Ugsc6RRY9pvYZKpSnrWL6w

McGoorty
10-31-2011, 12:14 PM
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