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View Full Version : Who could beat a prime Pernell Whitaker?


Flo_Raiden
10-15-2011, 09:07 PM
Was there any fighter that could have beaten a prime Pernell Whitaker convincingly? 4 of Sweet Pea's losses came from either robberies or past his prime.
The only guys I see having a chance are Duran, Pryor, and Napoles but I'm not sure. What do you think?

IronDanHamza
10-15-2011, 11:11 PM
Convincingly? I'm not sure.

I think Duran could beat him, I also think Carlos Ortiz could beat him. Both at 135 and 140.

Ike Williams could beat him.

A handful of Lightweight's could beat Whitaker.

I don't think convincingly though. It would be a difficult task to be beat him in convincing fashion.

Napoles didn't do enough below 147 to convince me he could beat Whitaker so I don't agree with that choice.

Pryor I don't see beating Whitaker at all.

Boxing Bob
10-15-2011, 11:26 PM
at 135, there some guys that stand a chance. But there's not one LW through out history I'd bet money on against him.

ghns1133
10-16-2011, 02:15 AM
Convincingly? I'm not sure.

I think Duran could beat him, I also think Carlos Ortiz could beat him. Both at 135 and 140.

Ike Williams could beat him.

A handful of Lightweight's could beat Whitaker.

I don't think convincingly though. It would be a difficult task to be beat him in convincing fashion.

Napoles didn't do enough below 147 to convince me he could beat Whitaker so I don't agree with that choice.

Pryor I don't see beating Whitaker at all.

everything he said^^^

and i dont see pryor beating him at all really

Hakuna Matata
10-16-2011, 02:21 AM
Sweet Pea's first pro loss was in a 15 rounder and I'm pretty sure it was his first title shot. He wasn't exactly in his 'prime' yet though and he lost because he gassed out.

I think Floyd Mayweather at 130 or 135 vs. Sweet Pea would have been one hell of a boxing clinic.

DBSLM
10-16-2011, 03:01 AM
I think Loreto Garza would of had a good shot at 140

Left2body
10-16-2011, 04:27 AM
Since I've been watching lightweight I would say Duran has the best shot and I would actually favor Duran to beat Sweat Pea 7x out of 10. Other than Duran I think Pernell is the best 135lb fighter I have ever seen fight on live TV or in person (not counting old timers like Benny Leonard and Joe Gans.)

However the guys who would have best shot are, Arguello, Mosley and a young prime Casamayor (who is very under-rated at light weight).

SBleeder
10-16-2011, 08:58 AM
At 135, only Benny Leonard, Gans, and Duran would have beaten him consistently.

SCtrojansbaby
10-16-2011, 12:13 PM
Pacquiao would stop Pernells and beats him the worse, Pacquiao throws too many punches, has the hand speed advantage and Pernell's best punches wouldn't even make Pacquiao blink. But I think plenty of other guys beat Pernell by decision including

Oscar De La Hoya
Felix Trinidad
Aaron Pryor
Roberto Duran
Hector Camacho
Meldrick Taylor
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Sugar Ray Leonard
Tommy Hearns

and others I am probable forgetting

New England
10-16-2011, 01:08 PM
Pacquiao would stop Pernells and beats him the worse, Pacquiao throws too many punches, has the hand speed advantage and Pernell's best punches wouldn't even make Pacquiao blink. But I think plenty of other guys beat Pernell by decision including

Oscar De La Hoya
Felix Trinidad
Aaron Pryor
Roberto Duran
Hector Camacho
Meldrick Taylor
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Sugar Ray Leonard
Tommy Hearns

and others I am probable forgetting

much bigger men.

i think the discussion is generally centered around the LW division, as that was whitaker's best weight

joseph5620
10-16-2011, 01:15 PM
Sweet Pea's first pro loss was in a 15 rounder and I'm pretty sure it was his first title shot. He wasn't exactly in his 'prime' yet though and he lost because he gassed out.

I think Floyd Mayweather at 130 or 135 vs. Sweet Pea would have been one hell of a boxing clinic.

It was a 12 round fight and Whitaker was robbed. He never "gassed out".

DeepSleep
10-16-2011, 10:22 PM
Given Sweet Pea's style I don't think anyone will convincingly beat him unless they have a significant size advantage.

Hakuna Matata
10-16-2011, 10:38 PM
It was a 12 round fight and Whitaker was robbed. He never "gassed out".

You're right about the bout being 12 rounds but the fight I watched it looked like Pernell was tired in the championship rounds. I'm not saying he wasn't robbed, but I am saying that he lost the final rounds because he was gassed.
But that's just my opinion.

Capaedia
10-17-2011, 12:40 AM
Given Sweet Pea's style I don't think anyone will convincingly beat him unless they have a significant size advantage.

I'm going to go with this.

Sweet Pea does very well H2H, I believe. Actually I think most defensive boxers do but that's just me.

El Jesus
10-17-2011, 12:41 AM
I give lightweight duran the best chance, however convincingly is the problem, sweet pea rolled, ducked and dodged too many punches and guys with a high punch output were very good at looking busy as opposed to actually hitting him, therefore "convincingly" is a big issue, but i give duran a good shot just because there were times where Whitaker could actually be touched and Duran could certainly drop whitaker at 135 to even up any lost rounds on the scorcard.

nonethless. good question, the carlos ortiz at LW comes to mind but someone already said that. Manny Pacquiao at 135/130 as someone mentioned i dont think thats a particularly good mactcup for pacquiao since Whitakers jab and movement would be too much to overcome, a guy like morales showed that an accurate jab causes alot of problems for pacquiao, i dont think its favorable for him.

ghns1133
10-17-2011, 12:52 AM
duran, carlos ortiz, benny leonard at 135 maybe ike williams too

at 47 there are a good amount

Check_hooks
10-17-2011, 12:56 AM
Pacquiao knocks him out hatton style

LeG00N
10-17-2011, 01:05 AM
Pacquiao knocks him out hatton style

sometimes I think you're just trolling

but then I realize you're just a simpleton that actually believes what he says.

ghns1133
10-17-2011, 01:17 AM
Pacquiao knocks him out hatton style

go away and never come back please

SCtrojansbaby
10-17-2011, 01:34 AM
I give lightweight duran the best chance, however convincingly is the problem, sweet pea rolled, ducked and dodged too many punches and guys with a high punch output were very good at looking busy as opposed to actually hitting him, therefore "convincingly" is a big issue, but i give duran a good shot just because there were times where Whitaker could actually be touched and Duran could certainly drop whitaker at 135 to even up any lost rounds on the scorcard.

nonethless. good question, the carlos ortiz at LW comes to mind but someone already said that. Manny Pacquiao at 135/130 as someone mentioned i dont think thats a particularly good mactcup for pacquiao since Whitakers jab and movement would be too much to overcome, a guy like morales showed that an accurate jab causes alot of problems for pacquiao, i dont think its favorable for him.

Whitaker doesn't have anywhere near enough power to cause the problems that Morales did. Pacquiao has the handspeed advantage and would consistently beat Pernell to the punch when he tried to stay in and counter punch

Worst possible matchup for Whitaker

ghns1133
10-17-2011, 01:47 AM
Whitaker doesn't have anywhere near enough power to cause the problems that Morales did. Pacquiao has the handspeed advantage and would consistently beat Pernell to the punch when he tried to stay in and counter punch

Worst possible matchup for Whitaker

your assesments and oppionons on whitaker dont count

Ziggy Stardust
10-17-2011, 08:26 AM
The only fighter I'd favor over a prime Whitaker at Lightweight is Duran. Benny Leonard and Gans are 50/50 fights for Pernell as I see it. Ortiz I'd give a shot while favoring Whitaker. Nobody else comes close.

Poet

1hourRun
01-02-2016, 06:41 AM
Jan 2 - Happy Birthday "Sweet Pea".

rightsideup
01-02-2016, 08:36 PM
top 5 lightweight any one in the top five is capable of beating each other maybe as durans body and skill mature after lets say 74 or 75 could that version of duran beat pea consistantly

DJ Enerate
01-03-2016, 02:02 PM
Carlos Ortiz and Ken Buchanan could pull it off. Especially Ortiz.

Duran and Benny Leonard would beat Pea imo

ShoulderRoll
01-03-2016, 02:45 PM
If we could get a time machine and bring back the Old Master Joe Gans I'd love love to see him against a prime Whitaker.

By all accounts he was as skillfull as could be and hit exceedingly hard on top of it. Knew all the tricks in the clinch too. Probably good enough to stay with Pernell in a pure boxing match but if necessary he would be able to maul him on the inside.

James09
01-03-2016, 02:46 PM
Roberto Duran would be my 1st pick.

Scott9945
01-03-2016, 07:11 PM
Carlos Ortiz and Ken Buchanan could pull it off. Especially Ortiz.

Duran and Benny Leonard would beat Pea imo

You really think Ken Buchannan would have any chance to beat Whitaker? He didn't have the power to hurt him and his speed was inferior. I can't see where Buchannan gets any edge. Ken was a very good champion. Just not at quite that level.

billeau2
01-03-2016, 08:26 PM
If we could get a time machine and bring back the Old Master Joe Gans I'd love love to see him against a prime Whitaker.

By all accounts he was as skillfull as could be and hit exceedingly hard on top of it. Knew all the tricks in the clinch too. Probably good enough to stay with Pernell in a pure boxing match but if necessary he would be able to maul him on the inside.

Gans was a great fighter...a fighters fighter really as he was well respected by other fighting men of the day. He was indeed able to operate at many ranges and had more varied skills than Whitaker but...a match between them may be a case where because of Sweet peas defensive tactics...even though they are not as far reaching, are enough to neutralize Gans considerable range.

of course Roger Mayweather caught the pea, and Gans was good at psychological warfare, so its also possible Gans could bait Whitaker into an ill fated exchange. It would be a good fight for sure. I have never believed that a well rounded fighter, like Floyd Mayweather, for example, would have any advantage over whitaker because they could do more offensively. Whitaker's defense was so good it created his offense and he was an excellent counter puncher.

DJ Enerate
01-04-2016, 12:29 PM
You really think Ken Buchannan would have any chance to beat Whitaker? He didn't have the power to hurt him and his speed was inferior. I can't see where Buchannan gets any edge. Ken was a very good champion. Just not at quite that level.

Ken ranks very highly H2H at lightweight. I think he could maybe beat Pea on his best night. Ken was no slouch in the speed department either and had amazing lateral movement and Jab. His power is actually underrated because he fought guys with granite jaws. He managed to wobble the teak tough Laguna and knocked Duran off balance a few times. He had enough power to get Peas respect. You also have to remember that Pea doesn't have the power to hurt Ken. This would be close and go all the way. If forced to pick I would give it to Pea.

rightsideup
01-04-2016, 04:03 PM
You really think Ken Buchannan would have any chance to beat Whitaker? He didn't have the power to hurt him and his speed was inferior. I can't see where Buchannan gets any edge. Ken was a very good champion. Just not at quite that level.ken was very highly thought of after beating laguna top five p4p then he was introduced to Mr Duran. He beat Laguna who was extremely fast
but I agree pea was slick and being a southpaw would have quite the puzzle to solve,

The Old LefHook
01-06-2016, 05:40 AM
Whitaker can bedevil any lightweight. To bedevil is not necessarily to beat. He feels angles and distances like no one else. His mobility is more like Benitez than Leonard--small lines, pivots. He does not use his legs to the extent of Leonard or Hoya. He fights a tighter game, always out-angling his opponents.

Good runners might stand a good chance, guys who could pick at him from a distance, making him extend more than he wants. Buchanan and Taylor would give interesting fights.

As someone mentioned earlier, he was usually vulnerable on the cards to being outworked, even when he did the cleaner work. He would not be able to beat Duran for this reason. Armstrong would be busy, hitting a lot of air and shoulders, but making enough contact to perhaps win. Somehow you could always count on Pea to make it closer than you thought it had to be. The nature of his style produced close, hard-to-judge fights. I would have to recuse myself on Ortiz and Williams, Beau Jack and Joe Gans. Howard Davis had a chance. Camacho would possibly out maneuver him from the outside. Rosario hit hard enough to KO him, but would likely be out-positioned throughout.

billeau2
01-06-2016, 10:03 AM
Whitaker can bedevil any lightweight. To bedevil is not necessarily to beat. He feels angles and distances like no one else. His mobility is more like Benitez than Leonard--small lines, pivots. He does not use his legs to the extent of Leonard or Hoya. He fights a tighter game, always out-angling his opponents.

Good runners might stand a good chance, guys who could pick at him from a distance, making him extend more than he wants. Buchanan and Taylor would give interesting fights.

As someone mentioned earlier, he was usually vulnerable on the cards to being outworked, even when he did the cleaner work. He would not be able to beat Duran for this reason. Armstrong would be busy, hitting a lot of air and shoulders, but making enough contact to perhaps win. Somehow you could always count on Pea to make it closer than you thought it had to be. The nature of his style produced close, hard-to-judge fights. I would have to recuse myself on Ortiz and Williams, Beau Jack and Joe Gans. Howard Davis had a chance. Camacho would possibly out maneuver him from the outside. Rosario hit hard enough to KO him, but would likely be out-positioned throughout.

These skills are the very essence of what Japanese Martial Artists call Tai Sabaki... The ability to move the body in segments to counter an attack, assuming various angles without changing the body's pivot point.

I have always believed that to fight with any art one had to have some of these skills. Then there have always been guys who really developed this process. Whitaker definitely was one, Ali another. Ted Lewis was another one who would travel in fairs and let people try to hit him, as he used his neck and timing to avoid the punches.

Check out this vid. This is an example of how Tai Sabaki works in a martial arts context. One movement, one pivot, two attacks, the main thing being having the shoulders working properly to evade/attack simultaneouely, then it builds from there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDtLB_jrWdA