View Full Version : How does Calzaghe vs Hagler play out at SMW?


rorymac
10-07-2011, 08:57 PM
I don't want to see any dumb comments.

CarlosG815
10-07-2011, 09:01 PM
I don't want to see any dumb comments.

JoeyZagz by brutal ko within 3 rounds.

CarlosG815
10-07-2011, 09:02 PM
Only if he's sporting the mushroom cut though.... Clean cut Zaggy would take about 7 to put him away.

JAB5239
10-07-2011, 09:11 PM
JoeyZagz by brutal ko within 3 rounds.

Agreed. His style is all wrong for Hagler. He'd make Marvin look like Pudwill.

CarlosG815
10-07-2011, 09:13 PM
Agreed. His style is all wrong for Hagler. He'd make Marvin look like Pudwill.

Marvin WAS Pudwill compared to Zaggz.

JAB5239
10-07-2011, 09:17 PM
Marvin WAS Pudwill compared to Zaggz.

...Touche'. :notworthy

Scott9945
10-07-2011, 09:19 PM
Well I admire everyone respecting the TS' request for no dumb comments. :lol1:

JAB5239
10-07-2011, 09:31 PM
Well I admire everyone respecting the TS' request for no dumb comments. :lol1:

Couldn't be helped, it was just to much fun!

rorymac
10-07-2011, 09:33 PM
Couldn't be helped, it was just to much fun!
I'm just wondering how you think it would play out stylistically, and what problems would each fighter present the other?

Capaedia
10-07-2011, 09:34 PM
Calzaghe has nothing to keep Hagler from doing exactly as he pleases for the entire duration of the fight.

Hagler could slug him out, or he could box him to a shut-out decision.

I'll go with Hagler KO6

N!GGALAS CAGE
10-07-2011, 09:46 PM
The great Marvin Hagler would destroy Calslapnuts within 4 rounds.

And this isn't a dumb comment, I'm dead serious.

Better skills, better brawler, better man.

Better Resume!

Calzaghe got nothing on Hagler.

TBear
10-07-2011, 11:23 PM
Alan Minter.

ghns1133
10-07-2011, 11:47 PM
hagler by win

Mr Randy Watson
10-08-2011, 02:23 AM
hagler rips his head off early... how can Joe keep hagler off of him?

JAB5239
10-08-2011, 03:34 AM
I'm just wondering how you think it would play out stylistically, and what problems would each fighter present the other?

As Capaedia said, Joe has nothing to keep Hagler off and Marvin would land the cleaner, harder punches while forcing the fight. Joe's resume is crap but he's a tough fight for many in my opinion. Hagler wouldn't be one of them though in my opinion. I don't see a ko, but a clear UD.

dan_cov
10-08-2011, 03:41 AM
I don't think Joe could keep Hagler off him, it would be like watching a pitbull attack a poor defenceless old lady.

Hagler would stop Joe within 5.

dan_cov
10-08-2011, 03:44 AM
Hearns couldn't keep Hagler at bay so how the fcuk would feather-fists Joe do it?

The more I think about it the more I think Hagler takes him out very earlier because Joe was dropped numerous times throughout his career in the first few rounds & there is no way Haglers letting him off the hook.

Welsh Jon
10-08-2011, 04:06 AM
As much as I love Joe, there's no way he's winning this one.

UglyPug
10-08-2011, 04:19 AM
Calzaghe wouldn't have to "keep him off", per se - he would keep Hagler from being able to plant his feet and unload, and land cleanly on him - he would neutralize Hagler's inside game with his faster hands and better technique. . . Simple body positioning, fleetness of foot and hand, coupled with AMAZING stamina (equally rivaled by Hag's, though) would give Calzaghe enough to pull off the UD. . . It would be a rough fight, with some nice exchanges, but Calzaghe would get the better of him. . . Punch stats would read: Joey Zagz: 305/958; Hagler: 264/779.

dan_cov
10-08-2011, 04:21 AM
Calzaghe wouldn't have to "keep him off", per se - he would keep Hagler from being able to plant his feet and unload, and land cleanly on him - he would neutralize Hagler's inside game with his faster hands and better technique. . . Simple body positioning, fleetness of foot and hand, coupled with AMAZING stamina (equally rivaled by Hag's, though) would give Calzaghe enough to pull off the UD. . . It would be a rough fight, with some nice exchanges, but Calzaghe would get the better of him. . . Punch stats would read: Joey Zagz: 305/958; Hagler: 264/779.


Haha love how you put the punch stats in at the end haha quality!

UglyPug
10-08-2011, 04:24 AM
Hagler had the more brilliant career - but Calzaghe is just all wrong for him style wise.

UglyPug
10-08-2011, 04:25 AM
Haha love how you put the punch stats in at the end haha quality!


haha gotta make it as accurate, and thorough as possible!

Boxing Bob
10-08-2011, 07:46 AM
Pug, Calz has neither the power nor the boxing skills to pull off the decision. Hagler has all of the advantages. Hagler walks through his pity pat punches, puts him on his azz in rd 2, stops him in rd 8 havin won every rd easily

JAB5239
10-08-2011, 09:37 AM
Hagler had the more brilliant career - but Calzaghe is just all wrong for him style wise.

We're talking about the same Calzaghe who needed a split decision to beat Robin Reid, right? Joe's an excellent fighter, but he's never even come close to fighting someone like a prime Hagler.

#1Assassin
10-09-2011, 10:31 AM
I'm just wondering how you think it would play out stylistically, and what problems would each fighter present the other?

stylisticly hagler could counterpunch joes wide punches and break him to the body then knock him out if joe tried to box, or plain kill him if joe tried to fight.

calzaghe would be faced with the problem of being dominated, manhandled and knocked out. hagler would have to show up so i guess if there was a traffic jam or something on his way to the arena that might pose a problem.

BigStereotype
10-09-2011, 02:16 PM
I think all these early KO predictions are silly but Calzaghe wouldn't ever be in the fight. Hagler has all the skills that Calzaghe has with power and an even better chin. All wrong for Joe, even with the size advantage.

sammiza567
10-10-2011, 04:15 AM
calzaghe should not be mentioned in the same paragraph as marvin hagler.

Jury
10-10-2011, 05:04 AM
Hagler would beat Joe on the outside and the inside and I doubt it would go 10.

RubenSonny
10-10-2011, 05:55 AM
A stoppage for Hagler is definitely possible, Calzaghe had an average chin.

UglyPug
10-10-2011, 06:02 AM
calzaghe is too fast and too clever for hagler. . . he knows how to adjust, and "thinks" more in the ring. . . both of them have absolute legendary stamina, but calzaghe would be too fast and too slick. . . i know calzaghe is probably the most hated boxer there is, even more so than mayweather, but he is a beast.

CarlosG815
10-10-2011, 10:22 AM
Calzaghe shouldn't even be talked about in the same thread as Hagler. He shouldn't even be mentioned next to his name and a debate as to how a fantasy fight would play out should be 100% lopsided votes to Hagler, assuming the people know what they're talking about.

IMDAZED
10-10-2011, 11:46 AM
Calzaghe would be hitting air all night and tasting plenty of leather in return. I can't think of a single category where he has the advantage.

DarkTerror88
10-10-2011, 11:59 AM
Hagler was a brilliant counterpuncher. he slips Joes punches and counters with a straight left - right hook all night. Then later on Hagler brings out his left uppercut. *shudders*

Hagler Decision.

jjbj2
10-10-2011, 12:55 PM
Having watched a bunch of Calzaghe and Hagler matches on Youtube. Let me just bring some facts, analysis, and opinions in it.

Joe Calzaghe:

Record: 46 Wins with 32 KOs no Loss

Height: 5 feet and 11 inches

Tallest fighters he faced and won against:

Decision wins:
Mike Kessler - 6 feet and 1 inch
Bernard Hopkins - 6 feet and 1 inch
Sakio Bika - 6 feet even

KO wins:
Mario Veit - 6 feet and 3 inches by way of KO (tallest fighter Calzaghe KO'ed)
Will McIntyre - 6 feet even
Richie Woodhall - 6 feet and 1.5 inch

Analysis of Joe Calzaghe's KO rate:
Most of his KO's are against small fighters average height of 5 feet and 9 inches. Also, most of his KO rate came from tomato cans as well. I counted 15 tomato cans in his KO rate.

Tomato can - I use this reference due to the fact that when he got to those boxers they were already a beaten fighter an example is Pat Lawlor's record stood at 21 Wins and 9 Losses (4 KO losses) at Calzaghe's 18th professional fight with a regional title British Super Middleweight title.

Style of fighter:
Boxer fighter against taller fighters - he shows great restraint never to aim for KO's or toe-to-toe battle against taller fighters. Evidence of his slapping jab combinations are indicative of a boxer who has strict discipline and caution against taller fighters.

Boxer puncher against smaller fighters - he shows flair and KO penchant against smaller fighters especially against those he deems with weak power.

Also, an underrated counter puncher.

Marvin Marvelous Hagler:

Record: 62 Wins with 52 KOs with 3 Losses

Height: 5 feet and 9.5 inches

Type of Fighter:
Inside fighter.
Power puncher.
Limited ring generalship.
Strong stamina.

Tallest fighters he faced and won against:

Decision wins:
Most against smaller fighters whose heights range from 5 feet 7 inches to 5 feet 9 inches.
Roberto Duran - 5 feet and 7 inches
John Mugabi - 5 feet and 8 inches

KO wins:
Thomas Hearns - 6 feet and 1 inch
Wilford Scypion - 5 feet and 11 inches
Sugar Ray Seales - 6 feet and 1 inch

Analysis of Hagler's KO wins:
Hagler fought tomato cans as well. I am getting it out of the way. He fought tomato cans up to his first world title fight. However, the difference between Calzaghe and Hagler is that Hagler KO'ed many named and famous fighters unlike Calzaghe. Also, it needs to be pointed out though that Hagler's KO wins came from smaller fighters with the exception of Thomas Hearns and a few named fighters of that time.

Further analyzed 70% of Hagler's KO came from smaller fighters and 30% from taller fighters 5 feet and 10 inches and up.

While, 75% of Calzaghe's KO came from smaller fighters and 25% from taller fighters.

Now, remember this if Calzaghe has a KO rate of 70% against smaller fighters ranging from 5 feet and 10 inches and below then it is a good indication that he might trade it up against Hagler going toe-to-toe due to his penchant of knocking out smaller fighters. Hagler, however, has a 30% KO rate against taller fighters.

This is going to be an exciting match-up.

However, I see this as a Decision win for Calzaghe the reason is he is too tall and too big. Calzaghe spent his career as a Super Middleweight and undefeated boxer in that division as well. While Marin Hagler spent his career as a Middleweight fighting Welterweights and Junior Middleweights coming up in weight.

Think about this deeply. Calzaghe spent his career a Super Middleweight absolutely he fought boxers coming in weight against Welterweights, Junior Middleweights and Middleweights as well. Still, he is better conditioned for that division. And Calzaghe showed great ring generalship against Mikel Kessler, Roy Jones, and Bernard Hopkins. We know that Hagler struggles against boxers with good footwork and Sugar Ray Leonard helped in exposing that weakness. We also don't know what career Hagler would have if he continued boxing after his loss to Leonard. Would the boxers of that era exploit that weakness that Leonard showed and make it their blueprint in beating Hagler? Also, before Hagler fought Leonard most of Hagler's opponents were come forward boxers who traded with him and were destroyed in the exchanges.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QTir9JHXTrg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Willie Monroe chose to fight from the outside against Marvin Hagler

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fLY8x2XF2Io" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Bobby Watts did the same too.

I am beginning to think that Leonard watched these two fights to get a better idea of who was Marvin Hagler what were his weaknesses. Lastly, Leonard is taller than Hagler if the records are to be believed.

I hope I made sense in my position.

I did this having no agenda and just trying to bring a different way in discussing and analyzing how the greats of today would stand against the great of yesterday. Because if we are going by record then we have to analyze everything not just the name of the fighters.

Also, to reiterate I have Joe Calzaghe winning by decision against Marvin Hagler.

1). Joe Calzaghe will respect Hagler's strength therefore he will fight outside as he did numerous times in his boxing career against power punchers.

2). Ring generalship will be Hagler's weakness. Joe Calzaghe always fights outside against good opponents indicative of his fight against Mikel Kessler, Bernard Hopkins, and Roy Jones Jr.


I say decision because we have to consider that:

1). Hagler trained his whole career to fight in championship titles for 15 rounds so if we magically transport a Hagler of 80's against a Calzaghe of early 2000's then we have a fighter with too much stamina.

2). Also, we might see a Hagler who would relentless from Round 5 to the end throwing power punches to the body and head of Calzaghe whenever he traps and catch-up on him.

3). Then again we might have a slow footed and flat footed Hagler for 12 rounds still.

DarkTerror88
10-10-2011, 01:52 PM
Joey stops Hagler in 7, peppering him with blazing combinations against the ropes in a fight known as The Saint David's Day Massacre. Hagler never boxes again, attempts suicide twice (the second time by reclining in a La-Z-Boy and slugging whiskey shots while repeatedly striking himself, open-palmed, in the face nonstop for 32 consecutive hours until he was found by concerned neighbours who were wondering what all the slapping noises were about), is declared insane, dies in an asylum. The end.

Some nice men in white coats are going to come take you for a ride now.....

:dance: :scared:

joseph5620
10-10-2011, 03:46 PM
Having watched a bunch of Calzaghe and Hagler matches on Youtube. Let me just bring some facts, analysis, and opinions in it.

Joe Calzaghe:

Record: 46 Wins with 32 KOs no Loss

Height: 5 feet and 11 inches

Tallest fighters he faced and won against:

Decision wins:
Mike Kessler - 6 feet and 1 inch
Bernard Hopkins - 6 feet and 1 inch
Sakio Bika - 6 feet even

KO wins:
Mario Veit - 6 feet and 3 inches by way of KO (tallest fighter Calzaghe KO'ed)
Will McIntyre - 6 feet even
Richie Woodhall - 6 feet and 1.5 inch

Analysis of Joe Calzaghe's KO rate:
Most of his KO's are against small fighters average height of 5 feet and 9 inches. Also, most of his KO rate came from tomato cans as well. I counted 15 tomato cans in his KO rate.
Tomato can - I use this reference due to the fact that when he got to those boxers they were already a beaten fighter an example is Pat Lawlor's record stood at 21 Wins and 9 Losses (4 KO losses) at Calzaghe's 18th professional fight with a regional title British Super Middleweight title.

Style of fighter:
Boxer fighter against taller fighters - he shows great restraint never to aim for KO's or toe-to-toe battle against taller fighters. Evidence of his slapping jab combinations are indicative of a boxer who has strict discipline and caution against taller fighters.

Boxer puncher against smaller fighters - he shows flair and KO penchant against smaller fighters especially against those he deems with weak power.

Also, an underrated counter puncher.

Marvin Marvelous Hagler:

Record: 62 Wins with 52 KOs with 3 Losses

Height: 5 feet and 9.5 inches

Type of Fighter:
Inside fighter.
Power puncher.
Limited ring generalship.
Strong stamina.

Tallest fighters he faced and won against:

Decision wins:
Most against smaller fighters whose heights range from 5 feet 7 inches to 5 feet 9 inches.
Roberto Duran - 5 feet and 7 inches
John Mugabi - 5 feet and 8 inches

KO wins:
Thomas Hearns - 6 feet and 1 inch
Wilford Scypion - 5 feet and 11 inches
Sugar Ray Seales - 6 feet and 1 inch

Analysis of Hagler's KO wins:
Hagler fought tomato cans as well. I am getting it out of the way. He fought tomato cans up to his first world title fight. However, the difference between Calzaghe and Hagler is that Hagler KO'ed many named and famous fighters unlike Calzaghe. Also, it needs to be pointed out though that Hagler's KO wins came from smaller fighters with the exception of Thomas Hearns and a few named fighters of that time.

Further analyzed 70% of Hagler's KO came from smaller fighters and 30% from taller fighters 5 feet and 10 inches and up.

While, 75% of Calzaghe's KO came from smaller fighters and 25% from taller fighters.

Now, remember this if Calzaghe has a KO rate of 70% against smaller fighters ranging from 5 feet and 10 inches and below then it is a good indication that he might trade it up against Hagler going toe-to-toe due to his penchant of knocking out smaller fighters. Hagler, however, has a 30% KO rate against taller fighters.

This is going to be an exciting match-up.

However, I see this as a Decision win for Calzaghe the reason is he is too tall and too big. Calzaghe spent his career as a Super Middleweight and undefeated boxer in that division as well. While Marin Hagler spent his career as a Middleweight fighting Welterweights and Junior Middleweights coming up in weight.

Think about this deeply. Calzaghe spent his career a Super Middleweight absolutely he fought boxers coming in weight against Welterweights, Junior Middleweights and Middleweights as well. Still, he is better conditioned for that division. And Calzaghe showed great ring generalship against Mikel Kessler, Roy Jones, and Bernard Hopkins. We know that Hagler struggles against boxers with good footwork and Sugar Ray Leonard helped in exposing that weakness. We also don't know what career Hagler would have if he continued boxing after his loss to Leonard. Would the boxers of that era exploit that weakness that Leonard showed and make it their blueprint in beating Hagler? Also, before Hagler fought Leonard most of Hagler's opponents were come forward boxers who traded with him and were destroyed in the exchanges.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QTir9JHXTrg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Willie Monroe chose to fight from the outside against Marvin Hagler

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fLY8x2XF2Io" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Bobby Watts did the same too.

I am beginning to think that Leonard watched these two fights to get a better idea of who was Marvin Hagler what were his weaknesses. Lastly, Leonard is taller than Hagler if the records are to be believed.

I hope I made sense in my position.

I did this having no agenda and just trying to bring a different way in discussing and analyzing how the greats of today would stand against the great of yesterday. Because if we are going by record then we have to analyze everything not just the name of the fighters.

Also, to reiterate I have Joe Calzaghe winning by decision against Marvin Hagler.

1). Joe Calzaghe will respect Hagler's strength therefore he will fight outside as he did numerous times in his boxing career against power punchers.

2). Ring generalship will be Hagler's weakness. Joe Calzaghe always fights outside against good opponents indicative of his fight against Mikel Kessler, Bernard Hopkins, and Roy Jones Jr.


I say decision because we have to consider that:

1). Hagler trained his whole career to fight in championship titles for 15 rounds so if we magically transport a Hagler of 80's against a Calzaghe of early 2000's then we have a fighter with too much stamina.

2). Also, we might see a Hagler who would relentless from Round 5 to the end throwing power punches to the body and head of Calzaghe whenever he traps and catch-up on him.

3). Then again we might have a slow footed and flat footed Hagler for 12 rounds still.

That's a bunch of crap right there. Calzaghe "too tall" for Hagler lol? You're basing your analysis almost entirely on the heights from a handful of their opponents which is a weak analysis to say the least. Quality of opposition goes a lot further. And Hagler did not spend his career fighting welterweights and junior middleweights coming up. That right there tells me you are not looking at this objectively and you damn sure are not using facts.


Also, this claim that Hearns is smaller than Hagler is a myth. Hearns is natrually bigger than Hagler and actually came in heavier than Hagler for their fight. When you describe Hagler as just an "inside power puncher with limited ring generalship", it clearly shows you don't know what the hell you're talking about.Using using two fights you watched on youtube to sum up Hagler's career is ridiculous.

jjbj2
10-10-2011, 05:05 PM
That's a bunch of crap right there. Calzaghe "too tall" for Hagler lol? You're basing your analysis almost entirely on the heights from a handful of their opponents which is a weak analysis to say the least. Quality of opposition goes a lot further. And Hagler did not spend his career fighting welterweights and junior middleweights coming up. That right there tells me you are not looking at this objectively and you damn sure are not using facts.


Also, this claim that Hearns is smaller than Hagler is a myth. Hearns is natrually bigger than Hagler and actually came in heavier than Hagler for their fight. When you describe Hagler as just an "inside power puncher with limited ring generalship", it clearly shows you don't know what the hell you're talking about.Using using two fights you watched on youtube to sum up Hagler's career is ridiculous.

Well, I don't see you writing anything substantive. All you wrote pretty much is to attack me. I don't care what your opinion is about me.

You don't know anything because you just wrote a bunch of nonsense.

Support your facts.

Thomas Hearns is naturally taller than Marvin Hagler. 6'1 can't be misunderstood against a 5'9.5 fighter.

Also, Thomas Hearns is like Diego Corrales 5'10 who fought at lower weights starting from Super Featherweight and like Paul Williams at 6'1 who fought at Welterweight.

The average height of Super Featherweights are usually 5'5 to 5'8 range and Welterweight being 5'7 to 5'10. It isn't surprising to see taller men rule a division if the average height is 3 to 4 inches below them. Look at the Klitschko brothers dominance in the Heavyweight division too tall for any 6'1 fighter. You basically need a 7 feet fighter who can move like Ali and bang like Foreman to beat the Klitschko brothers.

I would say Roberto Duran at 5'7 is the better fighter because he beat a 6'1 fighter named Thomas Hearns in the Junior Middleweight division by KO and won against Iran Barkley another 6'1 fighter by SD. It means Roberto Duran being called the Hand of Stone wasn't a made up nickname.

So, height really do play a major role. Attacking me won't explain your point.

Also, telling me that Joe Calzaghe sucks as a boxer is just baseless talk. The guy went undefeated in his career, fought named fighters, and had KO power. To say Calzaghe is a bum is baseless too bad no black American beat him.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/m9SfWjk00cs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Even Hopkins trying to fight dirty by clinching and tiring Calzaghe out. No effect, Calzaghe just slapped his way out just like what he will do Hagler.

Oh look at this Leonard running in circles against Hagler.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iwvNIuqCWRM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yea, comeback to me and tell how Hagler is going to fight this Calzaghe who stood toe-to-toe against Mikel Kessler just to show you his different styles.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3-9xkXD8rbU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Joe Calzaghe can't get beat and won't be beat by a careerist Middleweight who feasted on careerist Lightweight (Duran) and Welterweight (Hearns).

Please, you get the hell out until you prove your point with facts and videos.

And stop showing me videos of Hagler going toe-to-toe against his opponents I can do that with Antonio Margarito too. Also, Hagler doesn't make a habit of clinching so I have a good case to make that Hagler will go down against a taller boxer who is a banger also. Just imagine John Mugabi at least at 5'11 like Joe and I would bet Hagler would have been TKO'ed even Hagler admitted he was gassing out, tired, and hurt in his fight against a 5'8.5 fighter.

New England
10-10-2011, 05:18 PM
hagler via kayo in the 8th or 9th

legit kayo, with joe on the ground unable to get to his feet after ten

JAB5239
10-10-2011, 05:34 PM
]I would say Roberto Duran at 5'7 is the better fighter because he beat a 6'1 fighter named Thomas Hearns in the Junior Middleweight division by KO[/B] and won against Iran Barkley another 6'1 fighter by SD. It means Roberto Duran being called the Hand of Stone wasn't a made up nickname.

You guys try and keep your debate civil, ok? I just want to point out though that Hearns is the one who ko'd Duran, not the other way around.

New England
10-10-2011, 05:46 PM
You guys try and keep your debate civil, ok? I just want to point out though that Hearns is the one who ko'd Duran, not the other way around.



i wasn't going to touch that post but i'm glad somebody did.

jjbj2
10-10-2011, 05:46 PM
You guys try and keep your debate civil, ok? I just want to point out though that Hearns is the one who ko'd Duran, not the other way around.

Got it.

Also, I apologize for spreading misinformation.

I was looking at Boxrec and mixed up the boxers' names. And just went full blast without looking at it better.

Apologies.

joseph5620
10-10-2011, 05:54 PM
Well, I don't see you writing anything substantive. All you wrote pretty much is to attack me. I don't care what your opinion is about me.

You don't know anything because you just wrote a bunch of nonsense.

Support your facts.

Thomas Hearns is naturally taller than Marvin Hagler. 6'1 can't be misunderstood against a 5'9.5 fighter.

Also, Thomas Hearns is like Diego Corrales 5'10 who fought at lower weights starting from Super Featherweight and like Paul Williams at 6'1 who fought at Welterweight.

The average height of Super Featherweights are usually 5'5 to 5'8 range and Welterweight being 5'7 to 5'10. It isn't surprising to see taller men rule a division if the average height is 3 to 4 inches below them. Look at the Klitschko brothers dominance in the Heavyweight division too tall for any 6'1 fighter. You basically need a 7 feet fighter who can move like Ali and bang like Foreman to beat the Klitschko brothers.

I would say Roberto Duran at 5'7 is the better fighter because he beat a 6'1 fighter named Thomas Hearns in the Junior Middleweight division by KO and won against Iran Barkley another 6'1 fighter by SD. It means Roberto Duran being called the Hand of Stone wasn't a made up nickname.

So, height really do play a major role. Attacking me won't explain your point.

Also, telling me that Joe Calzaghe sucks as a boxer is just baseless talk. The guy went undefeated in his career, fought named fighters, and had KO power. To say Calzaghe is a bum is baseless too bad no black American beat him.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/m9SfWjk00cs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Even Hopkins trying to fight dirty by clinching and tiring Calzaghe out. No effect, Calzaghe just slapped his way out just like what he will do Hagler.

Oh look at this Leonard running in circles against Hagler.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iwvNIuqCWRM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yea, comeback to me and tell how Hagler is going to fight this Calzaghe who stood toe-to-toe against Mikel Kessler just to show you his different styles.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3-9xkXD8rbU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Joe Calzaghe can't get beat and won't be beat by a careerist Middleweight who feasted on careerist Lightweight (Duran) and Welterweight (Hearns).

Please, you get the hell out until you prove your point with facts and videos.

And stop showing me videos of Hagler going toe-to-toe against his opponents I can do that with Antonio Margarito too. Also, Hagler doesn't make a habit of clinching so I have a good case to make that Hagler will go down against a taller boxer who is a banger also. Just imagine John Mugabi at least at 5'11 like Joe and I would bet Hagler would have been TKO'ed even Hagler admitted he was gassing out, tired, and hurt in his fight against a 5'8.5 fighter.

Hagler did not fight his entire career against fighters moving up from 147-154. Either you're misinformed or lying because that isn't true. Those are facts that I support. I've never shown you any videos of Hagler and I don't need youtube to get information on him like you tried to do (and failed). Your ridiculous claim that 2 inches in added height would have resulted in a KO win for Mugabi is beyond stupid. Hagler crushed at least 3 fighters over 6-ft tall in Fulgencio Obelmejias, Hearns, and Sugar Ray Seales. Those are facts that you requested.


And I never once said Calzaghe sucked so don't start lying. I have a lot of respect for Calzaghe but his career doesn't come close to matching Hagler's. My philosophy is if you don't know don't talk about it. And you clearly don't know what you're talking about here. The fact that you made a long post full of BS to make up for what you don't know is not respectable. And finally, Hagler was not "gassing out and hurt" against Mugabi, so stop with the lies.

Mugwump
10-10-2011, 08:39 PM
Having watched a bunch of Calzaghe and Hagler matches on Youtube. Let me just bring some facts, analysis, and opinions in it.

...

Great post. I'm not sure I agree with your conclusions but you put forward a well-constructed argument demonstrating logical thinking, evidence and plenty of effort. It makes a refreshing change from the increasing levels of brainless nonsense that gets spouted lately.

Well done. :You_Rock_

Ziggy Stardust
10-11-2011, 12:09 AM
Great post. I'm not sure I agree with your conclusions but you put forward a well-constructed argument demonstrating logical thinking, evidence and plenty of effort. It makes a refreshing change from the increasing levels of brainless nonsense that gets spouted lately.

Well done. :You_Rock_

All the "logic" in the world is worthless is your starting premises are wrong. In his case he's arguing "logically" not only from bad premises but he's also arguing about things that are irrelevant to the outcome of the matchup. Case in point: Height, the single most overrated physical trait in boxing.

Poet

DarkTerror88
10-11-2011, 12:36 AM
All the "logic" in the world is worthless is your starting premises are wrong. In his case he's arguing "logically" not only from bad premises but he's also arguing about things that are irrelevant to the outcome of the matchup. Case in point: Height, the single most overrated physical trait in boxing.

Poet

When he said Hagler was a slugger/brawler I completely ignored the rest of what he had to say.

Hagler is one of, if not THE most versatile boxers in the grand old history. With a top 5 ATG chin, 15 round stanina (and not that tired at the end neither), good speed, good power, great technique and footwork, incredible defense when counter punching. Good inside fighting. Piston jab, good hooks, great uppercuts and the ability to basically do anything in the ring. Oh and he can do all this, Left handed AND right handed.

Name me another fighter who was THIS versatile.

joseph5620
10-11-2011, 09:32 AM
Great post. I'm not sure I agree with your conclusions but you put forward a well-constructed argument demonstrating logical thinking, evidence and plenty of effort. It makes a refreshing change from the increasing levels of brainless nonsense that gets spouted lately.

Well done. :You_Rock_



When you have to guess the outcome of a fight by skimming over boxrec that speaks for itself. Claiming that Duran knocked out Hearns is not "logical" and it damn sure isn't evidence. His post was full of sh1t from the beginning and that's why he left this thread in shame. If there is any "brainless nonsense" it's when the argument is based on misinformation and lies.The effort put into it doesnt make it respectable.

Kid McCoy
10-11-2011, 12:33 PM
Also, before Hagler fought Leonard most of Hagler's opponents were come forward boxers who traded with him and were destroyed in the exchanges.

Willie Monroe chose to fight from the outside against Marvin Hagler

Bobby Watts did the same too.

I am beginning to think that Leonard watched these two fights to get a better idea of who was Marvin Hagler what were his weaknesses. Lastly, Leonard is taller than Hagler if the records are to be believed.

Monroe won a decision against Hagler in their first fight, but Hagler knocked him out in two rematches. Watts also won a decision against Hagler (for what it's worth I thought Hagler deserved to win) and Hagler KO'd him in a rematch too. Whatever issues he had with those guys, he was still getting to them.

Calzaghe's advantages here are size and a style that could bother Hagler. Hagler did beat Hearns, who won titles at 168 and 175, and Sibson and Fully Obel, who later became solid 168lbers, but never fought that high himself. Hagler has the superior skills, is a great counterpuncher, can switch hit, has a better chin, hits harder and proved himself against a higher level of opposition. If he adjusts well to the new weight he should win but Calzaghe does have the tools to pull off an upset.

Mugwump
10-11-2011, 07:27 PM
When you have to guess the outcome of a fight by skimming over boxrec that speaks for itself. Claiming that Duran knocked out Hearns is not "logical" and it damn sure isn't evidence. His post was full of sh1t from the beginning and that's why he left this thread in shame. If there is any "brainless nonsense" it's when the argument is based on misinformation and lies.The effort put into it doesnt make it respectable.

I never said I agreed with the post so there's really no need for tears.

joseph5620
10-11-2011, 07:40 PM
I never said I agreed with the post so there's really no need for tears.

You never said you disagreed with it either. In fact, you said his post was a "well-constructed argument demonstrating logical thinking, evidence and plenty of effort"


And I don't recall shedding any tears over this. Did you?

New England
10-11-2011, 08:16 PM
When he said Hagler was a slugger/brawler I completely ignored the rest of what he had to say.

Hagler is one of, if not THE most versatile boxers in the grand old history. With a top 5 ATG chin, 15 round stanina (and not that tired at the end neither), good speed, good power, great technique and footwork, incredible defense when counter punching. Good inside fighting. Piston jab, good hooks, great uppercuts and the ability to basically do anything in the ring. Oh and he can do all this, Left handed AND right handed.

Name me another fighter who was THIS versatile.



ray robinson
joe louis barrow
ray leonard
roberto duran

not bad company, really.



unbelievably well rounded boxer was hagler both in terms of his physical tool and the skillset he built around them


its my opinion that the perception that he was a brawler comes in part from the role he played as the toughest guy of the fab four

he was also seen as the largest (even though hearns finished his career as a CW and was many inches taller and a few longer in reach, and was only a WW basically as a youth,)
and some people associate that with being less skilled (being on a tier or in a group with smaller men might appear to be a sign of a lack of skill to somebody who clearly hasnt seen the man fight)


it's always easy to spot the guys who "learned" about fighters from the past by watching some highlight videos and legendary nights on HBO



to the guy who is presently getting it handed to him:

most of the regular posters here have been following boxing for more than ten years (reading, watching fights, discussing with others with real knowledge)


if you keep your eyes open (and perhaps your mouth shut,) i garantee you will learn and you will learn quickly. you also wont be the first person to show up posting with a boatload of confidence, get ripped, and never return

CarlosG815
10-11-2011, 10:32 PM
You never said you disagreed with it either. In fact, you said his post was a "well-constructed argument demonstrating logical thinking, evidence and plenty of effort"


And I don't recall shedding any tears over this. Did you?

Mugwump again trying to intervene in a thread to defend his beloved Eurofraud fighters by using big words and trying to sound intelligent, only to again sound like a buffoon.

Don't try to backtalk Mugwump, the kid is an idiot and you agreed and commended his idiocy.

jjbj2
10-11-2011, 11:48 PM
I know reading back in my posts. I jumbled up a lot of information without really revising any of it. The way I wrote my opinion was the way I would have probably said it.

Now, let me get back to the topic.

Here is Sugar Ray Leonard's opinion in how to beat Marvin Hagler as mentioned in the Ring Magazine's website:

******.com: Your thoughts on the action in Hagler's third-round knockout over Hearns?

RL: Listen, man, if Tommy would have used that jab, he would have won that fight. But the reason that I also knew that Tommy was vulnerable was that he also had a kamikaze mentality. It was a do-or-die situation for Tommy.

So Tommy would go in there without even thinking about, you know, "by the way, I'm 6-foot-2," or, "by the way, I'm very fast," or, "by the way, my jab is a thing of beauty and a thing of art."

Then you have, "my height," and, "my reach." It was like he would forget about those things that were so apparent in his skills and his dimensions. If he would have used that jab, then he would have won that fight.

I normally don't go with the hypothetical, but in that fight, it was so apparent. If Tommy Hearns had boxed Hagler, then he would have beaten Hagler. Fact. Fact. Because of his hand speed, his height.

******.com: Why was there such a contrast in the way that Hearn fought you and the way that he fought Hagler?

RL: Tommy would have beaten Hagler, but he got into this exchange mentality. You can't win against Hagler if you stand toe-to-toe and go with him punch-for-punch.

Although I thought about fighting Hagler that same way, that was my first fight plan, because I knew that Hagler had been cut a few times and I was going to use that and try to bust him up.

But Tommy would have won that fight if he had resorted to boxing. Looking back also, having seen that fight a thousand times, it looked as though Tommy's legs were not holding up against Hagler.

Tommy seemed a little off balance as if his legs couldn't hold him up. I think that Tommy knew something that we didn't know. But who is to say. His legs, remember, they just kind of folded beneath him.

I know someone mentioned that "height" is overrated in boxing. However, many boxers like Sugar Ray Leonard believes "height" plays a factor in any boxing match.

Look at how Leonard insist that Hearns would have won the fight if he just moved on the outside utilizing jabs, not get to a toe-to-toe war, use his reach and use his "height" in the fight against Hagler.

So, really my opinion is similar to Leonard's opinion that beating Hagler is all about fighting from the outside and not get suckered in a brawl. I might even have a point that Leonard did watch those two fights that Hagler lost.

Anyway, people need to be more open-minded in debates and stop the name calling because it doesn't get the discussion anywhere if people just focus on the stupidity rather than the boxing aspect of the debate.

Going back to the discussion a lot of you guys don't even consider Calzaghe as a toe-to-toe fighter but rather as a boxer fighter.

Anyway, I promise next time I post here the opinions and facts are going to be better presented. I will take my time rather than post what I am thinking right now.

Peace out, also I still like the History Section.