View Full Version : Benny Leonard vs Floyd Mmayweather-135


kendom
09-30-2011, 04:00 PM
How would this sizzling match up go down? I saw a thread like this on ESB and wanted to get the opinions of those here at boxingscene.

SplitSecond
09-30-2011, 04:14 PM
floyd would dominate the sht outta him that's how

kendom
09-30-2011, 04:38 PM
floyd would dominate the sht outta him that's how

Errmm I dont think so, Benny Leonard is a top 3 lightweight of all time with one of the greatest boxing brains of all time, no one's "dominating" anybody

ИATAS
09-30-2011, 05:00 PM
Errmm I dont think so, Benny Leonard is a top 3 lightweight of all time with one of the greatest boxing brains of all time, no one's "dominating" anybody

just because he's an all time great and top 3 or whatever doesn't mean he could beat or even be competitive with mayweather, he came from a completely different era.

I don't know how much footage exists of Benny Leonard but from what I've seen yeah he was a great fighter very skilled and crafty but I don't see any reason why floyd would have any problems with the guy.

Did he accomplish more than floyd, is he ranked higher all time? sure why not. but head to head is a different thing. For example Rocky Marciano is ranked pretty high on the all time greatest heavyweight lists that doesn't mean he would be competitive with Vitali Klitschko or Lennox Lewis or Bob Fitzsimmons would beat a prime Roy Jones etc.

kendom
09-30-2011, 05:30 PM
just because he's an all time great and top 3 or whatever doesn't mean he could beat or even be competitive with mayweather, he came from a completely different era.

I don't know how much footage exists of Benny Leonard but from what I've seen yeah he was a great fighter very skilled and crafty but I don't see any reason why floyd would have any problems with the guy.

The footage of Benny Leonard doesn't do him justice, the quality is terrible and its hard to judge his ability from it.

Did he accomplish more than floyd, is he ranked higher all time? sure why not. but head to head is a different thing. For example Rocky Marciano is ranked pretty high on the all time greatest heavyweight lists that doesn't mean he would be competitive with Vitali Klitschko or Lennox Lewis or Bob Fitzsimmons would beat a prime Roy Jones etc.

The bolded is your opinion, while I think Lewis beats Marciano, I think that he can beat Klitschko, quality of competition is an excellent way of judging a fighters ability, if he beat comp much superior to anyone Floyd ever faced at Lightweight, then why wont he be a great match-up for Floyd. Timing beats speed, and Leonard had great timing, not to mention he figured out his opponents like they were a puzzle, you only need to educate youself about Benny Leonard to know this

Miburo
09-30-2011, 05:45 PM
Eras are too different. Under the current rules, Mayweather would likely dominate.

ИATAS
09-30-2011, 05:48 PM
The bolded is your opinion, while I think Lewis beats Marciano, I think that he can beat Klitschko, quality of competition is an excellent way of judging a fighters ability, if he beat comp much superior to anyone Floyd ever faced at Lightweight, then why wont he be a great match-up for Floyd. Timing beats speed, and Leonard had great timing, not to mention he figured out his opponents like they were a puzzle, you only need to educate youself about Benny Leonard to know this

when we're talking about Benny Leonard & Floyd and their opposition, again you have to factor in the era they fought in. Leonard was fighting in the 20's and 30's. I just don't think a lot (not all) of those guys could even come close to being competitive against Floyd.

As for Marciano, yes that's a completely different topic but again comparing era's....Marciano was 5***8242; 11***8243; 185 pounds. I just don't see him competing with a 6'7" 245 pound monster in Vitali. Most the guys Marciano fought were under 200 pounds themselves and the ones that were over 200 pounds were either not that good or old like Joe Louis.

kendom
09-30-2011, 06:27 PM
when we're talking about Benny Leonard & Floyd and their opposition, again you have to factor in the era they fought in. Leonard was fighting in the 20's and 30's. I just don't think a lot (not all) of those guys could even come close to being competitive against Floyd.

Here we go, the old boxing has "evolved over the years", Kid chocolate, Harry Greb, Mickey Walker, Jimmy Mclarnin, the 20's and 30's were some of the richest eras in boxing history. In 1920 there were more professional fighters fighing in New York than they are in the whole world today, FACT Mike Silver goes into it in his book "ARC of Boxing: Rise and fall of the sweet science

As for Marciano, yes that's a completely different topic but again comparing era's....Marciano was 5***8242; 11***8243; 185 pounds. I just don't see him competing with a 6'7" 245 pound monster in Vitali. Most the guys Marciano fought were under 200 pounds themselves and the ones that were over 200 pounds were either not that good or old like Joe Louis.

Whats the difference between from the fact that today's heavyweights are even more mediocre than they were then and they fought fifteen round championship fights? Marciano had underrated defense and head movement and would force Klitschko to punch down at a crouching target, Vitali is stronger but Marciano had ridiculous stamina and bust blood vessels in his opponents arms, just saying....

Greatest1942
09-30-2011, 06:52 PM
Benny Leonard would beat the **** out of Floyd DuckWeather.

Marciano will KO Roy Jones more brutally he has ever done...

Come on guys we can throw garbage too...

Most talking here about Leonard or Marciano dont even know when they fought and how were they...

And lastly if fights are fought in Gans or Leonards era...Floyd or tdays fighters would find the ring getting smaller with each passing round...
Don't just say in todays era...the fight might be in their era with small gloves over 25 rounds...Floyd will quit after running 16 rounds max in that case...

I am tired of this **** talkers....Need a break....

dan_cov
09-30-2011, 06:55 PM
Benny Leonard would beat the **** out of Floyd DuckWeather.

Marciano will KO Roy Jones more brutally he has ever done...

Come on guys we can throw garbage too...

Most talking here about Leonard or Marciano dont even know when they fought and how were they...

I am tired of this **** talkers....Need a break....




:lol1: funny guy.

Greatest1942
09-30-2011, 07:09 PM
:lol1: funny guy.

Agreed the post became so funny I had to edit to incorporate some serious element...

What can I say I find "know all" remarks like "Floyd will do this...", etc etc immensely amusing so I try to throw some amusement in return...

Hey, atleast you can't call me selfish.:fing26::bounce:

ghns1133
09-30-2011, 07:10 PM
tough one

i dont know if benny's style is right for beating may

Greatest1942
09-30-2011, 07:18 PM
tough one

i dont know if benny's style is right for beating may


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrAs0Tyo5g
Looks okay to me ...

JAB5239
09-30-2011, 07:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrAs0Tyo5g
Looks okay to me ...

Without picking a winner here, Leonard has some of the smoothest footwork ever. How much greater would he look in hi-def and color, imagine?

SBleeder
09-30-2011, 08:24 PM
just because he's an all time great and top 3 or whatever doesn't mean he could beat or even be competitive with mayweather, he came from a completely different era.

I don't know how much footage exists of Benny Leonard but from what I've seen yeah he was a great fighter very skilled and crafty but I don't see any reason why floyd would have any problems with the guy.

Did he accomplish more than floyd, is he ranked higher all time? sure why not. but head to head is a different thing. For example Rocky Marciano is ranked pretty high on the all time greatest heavyweight lists that doesn't mean he would be competitive with Vitali Klitschko or Lennox Lewis or Bob Fitzsimmons would beat a prime Roy Jones etc.

Here we go. The old "boxing has evolved" jazz.

I suggest you check out Poet's thread, it contains a pretty compelling argument that boxing has devolved over time.

Ziggy Stardust
09-30-2011, 09:40 PM
Here we go. The old "boxing has evolved" jazz.

I suggest you check out Poet's thread, it contains a pretty compelling argument that boxing has devolved over time.

Didn't you know, like, back in Holecene era of the 1920s, like, peeps were like TOTALLY Neanderthals back then......We've, like, TOTALLY evolved since them 1920s caveman days.

Poet

New England
09-30-2011, 10:54 PM
floyd hadn't really yet discovered his style at LW

but he did have some serious tools against guys that size.
the only guy who ever really gave him issues was castillo and he and leonard's styles and physical makeup are polar opposite.


i'd pick floyd to win a somewhat clear and comfy decision in a close fight. faster hands. crisper, more accurate puncher.
lesser fighters than mayweather were able to beat leonard.


the best means of beating mayweather is not how leonard fought (though his physical strength and punching power gets underrated. he was competitive at WW late in his career and often fought as a jr WW. he also had a lot of real knockouts with his opponent on the ground.)


i think floyd would win 10 rounds out of 15
maybe 9. something to that effect.

nice fight
maybe they'd do it twice and leonard might have a better shot the second go round

nobody is getting stopped or overmatched here.

Kid McCoy
09-30-2011, 11:09 PM
i'd pick floyd to win a somewhat clear and comfy decision in a close fight. faster hands. crisper, more accurate puncher.
lesser fighters than mayweather were able to beat leonard.


Almost all of Leonard's losses anywhere near his prime were against Hall of Famers. If Mayweather had 200+ fights against Leonard's level of opposition he'd have a load of losses too. Obviously anyone can pull off an upset in a one off fight but here I go for the guy who was far, far more proven than Mayweather. Leonard by decision.

New England
09-30-2011, 11:23 PM
Almost all of Leonard's losses anywhere near his prime were against Hall of Famers. If Mayweather had 200+ fights against Leonard's level of opposition he'd have a load of losses too. Obviously anyone can pull off an upset in a one off fight but here I go for the guy who was far, far more proven than Mayweather. Leonard by decision.



i'd pick mayweather to beat britton, ritchie, dundee, and welsh as well, going off of memory and not heading to the boxrec for some extras.


these are good fighters, yes, and hall of famers, but they are still lesser fighters than mayweather.

smaller, too. with a same day weigh in floyd would have likely never even been a LW.


this thread isn't about resume, where 2011 mayweather can't hold leonard's jock, it's about picking who you think would win in a prizefight, and i pick floyd mayweather based on the styles and the fighters and how i think things would play out.

Harry Balls
09-30-2011, 11:25 PM
Here we go. The old "boxing has evolved" jazz.

I suggest you check out Poet's thread, it contains a pretty compelling argument that boxing has devolved over time.

I won't speculate on the matchup, but seriously i read these kinds of things everyday on the internet.

Yet to this day, no one has been able to tell me HOW these "advanced training techniques" or "modern nutritional science" have been put in to use for todays fighters.

If we compare how they both train and eat, it looks extremely similar. The only big difference would be that there was more athletes to compete with back in the days.

Kid McCoy
10-01-2011, 12:11 AM
i'd pick mayweather to beat britton, ritchie, dundee, and welsh as well, going off of memory and not heading to the boxrec for some extras.

these are good fighters, yes, and hall of famers, but they are still lesser fighters than mayweather.


That's a very bold statement. What has Mayweather has done to suggest he could beat those guys, let alone that they were lesser fighters than him? I don't see Leonard having much trouble with N'dou, Sosa, Corralles etc. Castillo was the best Mayweather fought at 135 and remember a lot of people thought he beat Floyd.


this thread isn't about resume, it's about picking who you would think would win in a prizefight, and i pick floyd mayweather based on the styles and the fighters and how i think things would play out.

But resume shows what a fighter is capable of. If Leonard proved himself against better fighters than Mayweather, and beat better fighters than Mayweather has beaten, then that tells me he has a good shot at beating Mayweather. In a long career precious few outboxed Leonard. His main weakness was some durability issues. Several of the big punchers he faced either KO'd him or almost did, and that's not Floyd's forte. Like I said I don't totally discount Floyd's chances here but if I was betting I'd go with the more proven fighter.

smaller, too. with a same day weigh in floyd would have likely never even been a LW.

That's a good point. I'm not sure if Floyd could have made 135 at ringside like Leonard had to, so we may have to settle for one of those dreaded catchweights.

26 and Live
10-01-2011, 12:22 AM
You're saying that KOs aren't Floyd's forte but he was a KO machine at LW. It wasn't until moving up to WW when his KO ratio declined.

New England
10-01-2011, 12:55 AM
That's a very bold statement. What has Mayweather has done to suggest he could beat those guys, let alone that they were lesser fighters than him? I don't see Leonard having much trouble with N'dou, Sosa, Corralles etc. Castillo was the best Mayweather fought at 135 and remember a lot of people thought he beat Floyd.



But resume shows what a fighter is capable of. If Leonard proved himself against better fighters than Mayweather, and beat better fighters than Mayweather has beaten, then that tells me he has a good shot at beating Mayweather. In a long career precious few outboxed Leonard. His main weakness was some durability issues. Several of the big punchers he faced either KO'd him or almost did, and that's not Floyd's forte. Like I said I don't totally discount Floyd's chances here but if I was betting I'd go with the more proven fighter.



That's a good point. I'm not sure if Floyd could have made 135 at ringside like Leonard had to, so we may have to settle for one of those dreaded catchweights.


i respect your pick and you make some good points on the issue.
i do think leonard probably goes through floyds resume at 135 results similar to floyds. corrales would have a punchers chance at 135 and would be more of a live dog than he was at 130 against mayweather when he was rumored to be very drained.

i'm not certain how floyd would do against 10-20 opponents a year, but i stand by my picks against welsh, britton, dundee, ritchie if he were only fighting twice a year and didn't have to fight them all in a row. i don't wish that on any man lol.

at 135 floyd was a very stern puncher in my opinion, though he's never been a real destroyer who sets out with the intention to stop a man. he's an opportunist.
at 130 he could flat out bang.

but still, i don't think he'd stop leonard.

wmute
10-01-2011, 06:43 AM
ppl... focus... 130 weigh in the day before = 135 same day weigh in.

certainly in this case.

helluva fight of course. Two of the smartest fighters to ever set foot on a ring. No idea what the fight would look like.

The Surgeon
10-01-2011, 09:06 AM
Im finding it hard to picture this one. Mayweather had decent pop down at 135 its worth noting and threw far more combinations than he does these days.

I dunno really, Benny is an unquestionable ATG and by all accounts a bit of a wizard in there, hell he was called The Ghetto Wizard wasnt he!? But ive really come to appreciate Floyd lately, love him or hate him his skills are undeniable and i think there's some steel in him behind all the flash. Fought in todays terms id pick Mayweather over the distance i think, baring in mind he holds a 3 inch height And reach advantage. Not that that means much but when ur fighting a guy with Floyds ability the last thing u want to be doing is giving up size aswell

JAB5239
10-01-2011, 09:16 AM
i'm not certain how floyd would do against 10-20 opponents a year, but i stand by my picks against welsh, britton, dundee, ritchie if he were only fighting twice a year and didn't have to fight them all in a row. i don't wish that on any man lol.

On talent I believe Floyd capable of hanging with almost anyone. But if he had fought back then and had to fight the same schedule that Leonard fought I have few doubts he would also have losses. His hands just wouldn't hold up with smaller gloves and the inferior medical attention of the day.

RubenSonny
10-01-2011, 10:06 AM
ppl... focus... 130 weigh in the day before = 135 same day weigh in.

certainly in this case.

helluva fight of course. Two of the smartest fighters to ever set foot on a ring. No idea what the fight would look like.

Correct, Floyd at 130 was weighing in at about lightweight and just over.

IronDanHamza
10-01-2011, 10:14 AM
I think it's a competitive fight that Leonard wins.

He isn't the Greatest Lightweight of all time for nothing, after all.

Greatest1942
10-01-2011, 11:28 AM
i'd pick mayweather to beat britton, ritchie, dundee, and welsh as well, going off of memory and not heading to the boxrec for some extras.


these are good fighters, yes, and hall of famers, but they are still lesser fighters than mayweather.

smaller, too. with a same day weigh in floyd would have likely never even been a LW.


this thread isn't about resume, where 2011 mayweather can't hold leonard's jock, it's about picking who you think would win in a prizefight, and i pick floyd mayweather based on the styles and the fighters and how i think things would play out.


If...and thats a big if...Floyd was not matched teh same way LEonard was...did not fight so often and a whole lot...

Now you hold the Ritchie fight against Leonard...man...Leonard fought almost half of Floyds total number of fight that year...it was his 7th or 8 th fight that year...if memory serves me right. He went on to fight a whole lot many times that year itself....so would Floyd have done much better under the same schedule?

My point is these are all HOFers and with the schedule Leonard maintained its natural he will drop some to competitive fighters...put Floyd in that era , with Leonards schedule, he will drop more than Leonard I bet....They were not paper HOFers by the way..many will rank as the best Floyd beat...and some will beat a Floyd fighting his 8th fight in 3 months sure.

And besides some of the loses you are naming against Leonard (with Boxwreck) were disputed there were lots of reports that gave it to Leonard also. Like you name Dundee, who was a better fighter than most Floyd faced...

But here are some fight reports you wont find in boxwreck

DUNDEE AND LEONARD FIGHT TEN TERRIFIC ROUNDS TO A DRAW DECISION.
LIGHT WEIGHTS FIGHT A DRAW; Leonard Shows Knowlegde of the Finer Points; Dundee is Speed Merchant and Keeps at It; Fast Pace Set and Continued Throughout. Lightweights.

Bear in mind he fought 14 days before and 18 days after this fight...

You might say we can go by the results, but hey if we only see the results via the record books, then Floyd is greater than SRR since he never lost...Ali is worse than Wlad or Vitaly

FRom the Video its apparent that Leonard was extremely skill full...He also had much more experience and was tried and tested....He will outfight Floyd and win a competitive bout

SCtrojansbaby
10-01-2011, 11:39 AM
Yet to this day, no one has been able to tell me HOW these "advanced training techniques" or "modern nutritional science" have been put in to use for todays fighters.

If we compare how they both train and eat, it looks extremely similar. The only big difference would be that there was more athletes to compete with back in the days.


Take a class on nutrition or sport medicine.

JAB5239
10-01-2011, 11:47 AM
Take a class on nutrition or sport medicine.

Why don't you just give us some examples?

New England
10-01-2011, 11:57 AM
If...and thats a big if...Floyd was not matched teh same way LEonard was...did not fight so often and a whole lot...

Now you hold the Ritchie fight against Leonard...man...Leonard fought almost half of Floyds total number of fight that year...it was his 7th or 8 th fight that year...if memory serves me right. He went on to fight a whole lot many times that year itself....so would Floyd have done much better under the same schedule?

My point is these are all HOFers and with the schedule Leonard maintained its natural he will drop some to competitive fighters...put Floyd in that era , with Leonards schedule, he will drop more than Leonard I bet....They were not paper HOFers by the way..many will rank as the best Floyd beat...and some will beat a Floyd fighting his 8th fight in 3 months sure.

And besides some of the loses you are naming against Leonard (with Boxwreck) were disputed there were lots of reports that gave it to Leonard also. Like you name Dundee, who was a better fighter than most Floyd faced...

But here are some fight reports you wont find in boxwreck

DUNDEE AND LEONARD FIGHT TEN TERRIFIC ROUNDS TO A DRAW DECISION.
LIGHT WEIGHTS FIGHT A DRAW; Leonard Shows Knowlegde of the Finer Points; Dundee is Speed Merchant and Keeps at It; Fast Pace Set and Continued Throughout. Lightweights.

Bear in mind he fought 14 days before and 18 days after this fight...

You might say we can go by the results, but hey if we only see the results via the record books, then Floyd is greater than SRR since he never lost...Ali is worse than Wlad or Vitaly

FRom the Video its apparent that Leonard was extremely skill full...He also had much more experience and was tried and tested....He will outfight Floyd and win a competitive bout


first bold
check the rest of my posts, Bro


and you're really getting on me for using the boxrec? moving on

second bold
this just sounds childish to me. i hope you aren't being serious and trying to build a stance on something with logic (or reversed logic, whatever you want to call it. sarcasm,) like that
i'm not being biased toward any era. i've seen plenty of film of both fighters. i'm pretty sure i've seen every mayweather fight available on film

i don't think benny leonard would win a decision against floyd mayweather in a 15 round fight. i think floyd is all wrong for him.
bigger, stronger, better boxer. i developed this opinion through my understanding of boxing. it might not be perfect, nobody's is.
not some hackneyed idea that being undefeated makes floyd the greatest fighter of all time, or that modernity is an inherently greater-making quality

i'm not some floyd fan boy, dude. ask around if you have to. i like to think i know a little bit about boxing.

i pick plenty of WW's to beat floyd
and a few LW's

leonard is not one of them

The Surgeon
10-01-2011, 12:00 PM
first bold
check the rest of my posts, Bro


and you're really getting on me for using the boxrec? moving on

second bold
this just sounds childish to me. i hope you aren't being serious and trying to build a stance on something with logic (or reversed logic, whatever you want to call it. sarcasm,) like that
i'm not being biased toward any era. i've seen plenty of film of both fighters. i'm pretty sure i've seen every mayweather fight available on film

i don't think benny leonard would win a decision against floyd mayweather in a 15 round fight. i think floyd is all wrong for him.
bigger, stronger, better boxer. i developed this opinion through my understanding of boxing. it might not be perfect, nobody's is.
not some hackneyed idea that being undefeated makes floyd the greatest fighter of all time, or that modernity is an inherently greater-making quality

i'm not some floyd fan boy, dude. ask around if you have to. i like to think i know a little bit about boxing.

i pick plenty of WW's to pick floyd
and a few LW's

leonard is not one of them

I can say u are no fan boy and a solid poster. I happen to agree Mayweather would take this one.

Out of interest who are the LW's u pick over PBF?

SCtrojansbaby
10-01-2011, 12:08 PM
Why don't you just give us some examples?

I haven't taken any nutrition or sport medicine classes. But the most basic things are better medicine, better workouts, better equipment, better doctors etc etc. Manny Pacquiao works with people who have Masters degrees from UCLA I think its safe to say they might know a few more things about the human body than the cutman from rocky

New England
10-01-2011, 12:15 PM
I can say u are no fan boy and a solid poster. I happen to agree Mayweather would take this one.

Out of interest who are the LW's u pick over PBF?


thank you champ

duran.
whitaker (i'd pick floyd at WW.)
ike williams (though i'd have the least confidence in williams of all of the men listed.)
old master gans.

a few. perhaps i could dig a few more up with some thought. i don't want to put somebody down and then come to the realization later on that i think floyd could take him.


ww's is a longer list. i put four up a few pages down in the section and i'll throw them back up here.

hearns via knockout
ray leonard decision
burley decision
robinson knockout

McGoorty
10-01-2011, 12:16 PM
floyd would dominate the sht outta him that's how
Benny would dominate the sh1t out of Floyd.

New England
10-01-2011, 12:21 PM
I haven't taken any nutrition or sport medicine classes. But the most basic things are better medicine, better workouts, better equipment, better doctors etc etc. Manny Pacquiao works with people who have Masters degrees from UCLA I think its safe to say they might know a few more things about the human body than the cutman from rocky




Lol

WHY?

you want to know how ariza learned about boxing?

a year long unpaid apprenticeship under roach

the average jamoke coming out of UCLA with a BA knows more about the surface of the moon than he does boxing.

if medicine helps out boxers it keep us from losing fighters like greb and flowers at young ages
if you blow an ACL you used to be all done
then ten years ago you were out for a year

today you're looking at 6 months

that helps out boxers who blow ACL's, or sustain injuries like robert guerrero recently with what i think was his rotator cuff
but it does not guarantee you will have better boxers



you're claiming that COLLEGES are responsible for "better boxers?"

lol, man
you really are clueless. i'm sorry to call you out.

SCtrojansbaby
10-01-2011, 12:25 PM
"Colleges"(meaning knowledge of the human body) is responsible for better athletes.

Harry Balls
10-01-2011, 12:27 PM
Take a class on nutrition or sport medicine.
so then tell me what it is current fighters to with regards to nutrition and training (except for steroids) that past eras didn't?

It should be very easy to do for you.

Scott9945
10-01-2011, 12:28 PM
Lol

WHY?

you want to know how ariza learned about boxing?

a year long unpaid apprenticeship under roach

the average jamoke coming out of UCLA with a BA knows more about the surface of the moon than he does boxing.

if medicine helps out boxers it keep us from losing fighters like greb and flowers at young ages
if you blow an ACL you used to be all done
then ten years ago you were out for a year

today you're looking at 6 months

that helps out boxers who blow ACL's, or sustain injuries like robert guerrero recently with what i think was his rotator cuff
but it does not guarantee you will have better boxers



you're claiming that COLLEGES are responsible for "better boxers?"

lol, man
you really are clueless. i'm sorry to call you out.

Also detached retinas can be repaired now. It used to be a career killer.

The Surgeon
10-01-2011, 12:28 PM
thank you champ

duran.
whitaker (i'd pick floyd at WW.)
ike williams (though i'd have the least confidence in williams of all of the men listed.)
old master gans.

a few. perhaps i could dig a few more up with some thought.


ww's is a longer list. i put four up a few pages down in the section and i'll throw them back up here.

hearns via knockout
ray leonard decision
burley decision
robinson knockout
Id agree with all of those picks too with the exception of Whitaker who i think Floyd out guns for a points win.

Nice to see Burley get some WW credit he fought close to 40 fights there and of his prime years - 1939 to 1942 he fought 27 times, of those 12 were at WW. He also beat Holman Williams among others and took Zivic to a disputed points loss - that he twice avenged.

New England
10-01-2011, 12:29 PM
"Colleges"(meaning knowledge of the human body) is responsible for better athletes.

lol not to the degree you believe evidently


competititon is responsible for better athletes.


college athletletics are more responsible than the academic work they do for creating better athletes.


academics being responsible for faster swimmers, runners, etc?
you need to turn off the "sports science" show with that little rat looking dude

cmon, bro
do you read stuff after you post it?

Harry Balls
10-01-2011, 12:31 PM
I haven't taken any nutrition or sport medicine classes. But the most basic things are better medicine, better workouts, better equipment, better doctors etc etc. Manny Pacquiao works with people who have Masters degrees from UCLA I think its safe to say they might know a few more things about the human body than the cutman from rocky
Better medicine? Is this slang for peds or what?
Of course the medical field has highly advanced since the early 1900s, but how would that influence a fighters ability to compete? It would if anything lengthen their careers, due to better injury treatment.

Better workouts. Yeah, what is that? Boxing is an extremely primitive sport, and all you'd have to do is read one of the books that maps out legendary fighters training routines and you would see theres not much new when it comes to that area.

Floyd admittedly eats chicken, steaks, rahmen noodles and twinkies.
I'm not so sure how applicable the advancements in sports nutrition is to that fact.

New England
10-01-2011, 12:33 PM
Id agree with all of those picks too with the exception of Whitaker who i think Floyd out guns for a points win.

Nice to see Burley get some WW credit he fought close to 40 fights there and of his prime years - 1939 to 1942 he fought 27 times, of those 12 were at WW. He also beat Holman Williams among others and took Zivic to a disputed points loss - that he twice avenged.



certainly a possibility
i felt that floyd would have to go out of character most to win against whitaker


and as for burley the guy was one hell of a welterweight with a good chin, great punch, and great skills
i think they go tit for tat and burley wins on the harder punches


that one might be a robbery, though, with burley's luck
and floyd's clout

RubenSonny
10-01-2011, 12:33 PM
I can say u are no fan boy and a solid poster. I happen to agree Mayweather would take this one.

Out of interest who are the LW's u pick over PBF?

I second that.

The Surgeon
10-01-2011, 12:39 PM
that one might be a robbery, though, with burley's luck
and floyd's clout

Lol very true!

In regards to Sweet Pea, Mayweather seems like he is equally great at walking a man down as he is at moving and pot shotting and his uncle Roger seemed to tag Whittaker with plenty of right hand leather, i think Floyd goes one better but hey everyone has their own opinion

SplitSecond
10-01-2011, 12:42 PM
"Colleges"(meaning knowledge of the human body) is responsible for better athletes.

wtf is wrong with this guy?

McGoorty
10-01-2011, 12:57 PM
:lol1: funny guy.
So he's a funny guy, is he ?????..... Mate when I compare your posts that I've read to the one's that he does,.... it's you that comes out looking funny. I don't always agree with some of his opinions, but when I ask him to explain himself, he goes about things smartly, and he makes sure of his facts............ The guy is a true historian, but so far I have not seen you argue your case too well,... you just make short statements and diss somebody, but you don't back up your own statements,................ I agreed with his above post, but all you could come up with a silly laughing head and just 8 letters.

SCtrojansbaby
10-01-2011, 01:08 PM
I don't understand how you can think working with people who have supreme knowledge of the human body isn't going to make you a better athlete.

New England
10-01-2011, 01:30 PM
I don't understand how you can think working with people who have supreme knowledge of the human body isn't going to make you a better athlete.




they are called trainers
they are not new to boxing. you don't need "science and technology" for that.

you don't learn how to train a fighter in a book or in a classroom. you learn by being around fighters and trainers. over time the sport has evolved in that sense.
i'm not saying it's going to hurt you to read a book, or have a doctorate

i'm saying if that's all you're going on you're going to get your fighters ass kicked

SBleeder
10-01-2011, 01:39 PM
Take a class on nutrition or sport medicine.

Only if you take a class on pre-1980s boxing.

New England
10-01-2011, 01:46 PM
Only if you take a class on pre-1980s boxing.

lol post of the month


maybe post of the year

ghns1133
10-01-2011, 01:47 PM
lulz at condom boy

McGoorty
10-01-2011, 01:56 PM
floyd hadn't really yet discovered his style at LW

but he did have some serious tools against guys that size.
the only guy who ever really gave him issues was castillo and he and leonard's styles and physical makeup are polar opposite.


i'd pick floyd to win a somewhat clear and comfy decision in a close fight. faster hands. crisper, more accurate puncher.
lesser fighters than mayweather were able to beat leonard.


the best means of beating mayweather is not how leonard fought (though his physical strength and punching power gets underrated. he was competitive at WW late in his career and often fought as a jr WW. he also had a lot of real knockouts with his opponent on the ground.)


i think floyd would win 10 rounds out of 15
maybe 9. something to that effect.

nice fight
maybe they'd do it twice and leonard might have a better shot the second go round

nobody is getting stopped or overmatched here.
You know I respect you, especially as you are a fighter (at least I think you said you were), but I don't know how you can say that May has faster or crisper punches than Benny, Benny may in fact be better in those departments. Some people think that leonard was a bit of a light puncher, he was no Lew Jenkins, but he had KO power. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I also think that there's no way he beats all of the Brittons, Dundee's, Ritchie's and all of those great fighters..... fact is that Floyd has never even met a LW in Owen Morans class, so of course he looks great against fighters who would be complete nobodies a hundred years ago. The notion that those guys were simply slower and not very athletic compared to todays boxers is simply not right. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Floyd has never lost a fight,....... but really, how many real battles has he been in ????... how many times has he been badly hurt ???.... a relevant question because all the greats are great because they can win, even when busted up and only seeing out of one eye..... I say he' is still untested against a truly great fighter,..... he's been in cruise mode 97 % of his career. We just don't know how he'll react when someone lands a bomb on him.... maybe he'll end up flat on his back. We do know however that Leonard also cruised a lot,...... but they were 20 Darby distance fights,... not Floyd's 12, and we also know that he couldn't cruise all the time because he did sometimes have a real war, and we know he had a lions heart (we don't know if Floyd does).... and we also know that benny could take very heavy blows when he had to. In fact there is no way Floyd's a top 10 LW.......... How many truly great fighters has Mayweather beaten ?...... some big names, but in my opinion they are not in the same league as a Britton or Gans... etc.

New England
10-01-2011, 02:15 PM
You know I respect you, especially as you are a fighter (at least I think you said you were), but I don't know how you can say that May has faster or crisper punches than Benny, Benny may in fact be better in those departments. Some people think that leonard was a bit of a light puncher, he was no Lew Jenkins, but he had KO power. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I also think that there's no way he beats all of the Brittons, Dundee's, Ritchie's and all of those great fighters..... fact is that Floyd has never even met a LW in Owen Morans class, so of course he looks great against fighters who would be complete nobodies a hundred years ago. The notion that those guys were simply slower and not very athletic compared to todays boxers is simply not right. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Floyd has never lost a fight,....... but really, how many real battles has he been in ????... how many times has he been badly hurt ???.... a relevant question because all the greats are great because they can win, even when busted up and only seeing out of one eye..... I say he' is still untested against a truly great fighter,..... he's been in cruise mode 97 % of his career. We just don't know how he'll react when someone lands a bomb on him.... maybe he'll end up flat on his back. We do know however that Leonard also cruised a lot,...... but they were 20 Darby distance fights,... not Floyd's 12, and we also know that he couldn't cruise all the time because he did sometimes have a real war, and we know he had a lions heart (we don't know if Floyd does).... and we also know that benny could take very heavy blows when he had to. In fact there is no way Floyd's a top 10 LW.......... How many truly great fighters has Mayweather beaten ?...... some big names, but in my opinion they are not in the same league as a Britton or Gans... etc.


i don't think mayweather's faster because of the era in which he fights
i'm going off of film for that. and again, that's only an opinion

and on the competition, you're absolutely right, floyd is tested in his own right, but in leonards context he is relatively untested.

he has, however, faced very fast guys, very hard punchers, solid boxers, etc


floyd's chin isn't 100% explored, and its actually shown to be dentable (mosley rocked him seriously, but he's a huge puncher,) but i do believe floyd would balls up if he ever really needed to

the guy works too hard in the gym to just pack it in when he's in trouble.
and if for no other reason, losing and getting knocked out is bad for business and his wallet


and on getting in the ring..
i don't get in there any more, but lets just say that when i was younger i got to the gym and didn't shy away from getting my butt kicked once in a while (i cant be showing up for my day job all busted up, lol)
i've also got family that boxed in the army and professionally going pretty far back

The Surgeon
10-01-2011, 02:19 PM
You know I respect you, especially as you are a fighter (at least I think you said you were), but I don't know how you can say that May has faster or crisper punches than Benny, Benny may in fact be better in those departments. Some people think that leonard was a bit of a light puncher, he was no Lew Jenkins, but he had KO power. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I also think that there's no way he beats all of the Brittons, Dundee's, Ritchie's and all of those great fighters..... fact is that Floyd has never even met a LW in Owen Morans class, so of course he looks great against fighters who would be complete nobodies a hundred years ago. The notion that those guys were simply slower and not very athletic compared to todays boxers is simply not right. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Floyd has never lost a fight,....... but really, how many real battles has he been in ????... how many times has he been badly hurt ???.... a relevant question because all the greats are great because they can win, even when busted up and only seeing out of one eye..... I say he' is still untested against a truly great fighter,..... he's been in cruise mode 97 % of his career. We just don't know how he'll react when someone lands a bomb on him.... maybe he'll end up flat on his back. We do know however that Leonard also cruised a lot,...... but they were 20 Darby distance fights,... not Floyd's 12, and we also know that he couldn't cruise all the time because he did sometimes have a real war, and we know he had a lions heart (we don't know if Floyd does).... and we also know that benny could take very heavy blows when he had to. In fact there is no way Floyd's a top 10 LW.......... How many truly great fighters has Mayweather beaten ?...... some big names, but in my opinion they are not in the same league as a Britton or Gans... etc.

One of the reasons i have a new found respect for Floyd is because of how he reacted in the Mosley fight when badly stunned in the second round. He showed he has some substance, some fighting guts and calm under pressure. He took the shots, rode out the storm and had Mosley on the back foot that Same damn round. He seems to react well to adversity and its his toughest fights he has shone in most. Im no fan boy and its totally True Shane was a dinosaur when he tangled with Mayweather but thats about as close to a losing as Floyds come. I dont think its fair to assume he CANT win against the odds or come through a war and adversity just because he HASN'T had to. The closest thing he has had to a war would be against Chop Chop and Burton and i think he did a great job out manning those guys.

McGoorty
10-01-2011, 02:19 PM
Take a class on nutrition or sport medicine.
"I fart in your general direction"......... thanks for your help John Cleese.

The Surgeon
10-01-2011, 02:21 PM
"I fart in your general direction"......... thanks for your help John Cleese.

Lol Now THATS Funny!

MRBOOMER
10-01-2011, 02:27 PM
Idk I think benny takes it his foot work was hella clean it would make it tough for Floyd to get off pot shots against a mover Like that what you should ask is benny vs sweet pea

McGoorty
10-01-2011, 02:30 PM
I haven't taken any nutrition or sport medicine classes. But the most basic things are better medicine, better workouts, better equipment, better doctors etc etc. Manny Pacquiao works with people who have Masters degrees from UCLA I think its safe to say they might know a few more things about the human body than the cutman from rocky
LOL... Now you tell us that you know nothing about the subject,... so why the f*** did you tell one of your superiors to find out about sports medicine. Seriously, stay out of hospitals, because you'd probably interrupt a brain surgeon during an operation, and give him your opinion on how it should be done. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I fart in your general direction".

MRBOOMER
10-01-2011, 02:39 PM
Lol very true!

In regards to Sweet Pea, Mayweather seems like he is equally great at walking a man down as he is at moving and pot shotting and his uncle Roger seemed to tag Whittaker with plenty of right hand leather, i think Floyd goes one better but hey everyone has their own opinion

That was a young Whitaker who was looking to end Roger and acting very careless at times if you take the Whitaker that rematched Jose Luis Ramirez or Nelson then I think he beats Floyd

McGoorty
10-01-2011, 02:44 PM
I don't understand how you can think working with people who have supreme knowledge of the human body isn't going to make you a better athlete.
Because it's combat, not swimming. How does a better diet make one a warrior ??.... If anybody in today's world went 6 days a week to a nutritionist and a sports physcologist, and then you gave him a shield and a sword and zapped a real live Viking from the 10th century to face him in a fight to the death. All the science in the world won't stop the Modern guy from shi1tting his pants,... and then dying a horrible gruesome death a split-second later....... oops I forgot, if they were from a thousand years ago they'd be probably only able to move as fast as a tortoise......... ----------------------------------------------------------------- Again, I fart in your general direction,... and go and get yourself a psychiatrist.

kendom
10-01-2011, 02:44 PM
I think Leonard can beat him, Leonard was a master of picking off jabs as shown in his highlight video, and its really hard to throw sustained combinations against someone when the punch you use to set it up is being blocked, Leonard's feinting skills would also cause a problem however Floyd at lightweight is fast, FAST but I think that Leonard can neutralize his speed advantage, just my opinion of course. In three fights I see Floyd winning one but Leonard winning the other two.

The Surgeon
10-01-2011, 02:45 PM
That was a young Whitaker who was looking to end Roger and acting very careless at times if you take the Whitaker that rematched Jose Luis Ramirez or Nelson then I think he beats Floyd

Yeah i guess thats true, Pernell did get a bit wild, out of character for him. Still the best Whitaker vs the best Mayweather (floyd) i like Mayweather to edge it

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2011, 03:04 PM
Yeah i guess thats true, Pernell did get a bit wild, out of character for him. Still the best Whitaker vs the best Mayweather (floyd) i like Mayweather to edge it

Whitaker all day long. This is a matchup where Mayweather doesn't even have a edge defensively.....and Whitaker generates a lot more offense then Floyd does.

Poet

McGoorty
10-01-2011, 03:05 PM
i don't think mayweather's faster because of the era in which he fights
i'm going off of film for that. and again, that's only an opinion Unflattering film quality means you don't get Leonard's true speed so it's hard to make a comparison

and on the competition, you're absolutely right, floyd is tested in his own right, but in leonards context he is relatively untested.

he has, however, faced very fast guys, very hard punchers, solid boxers, etc Undoubtedly, but they are at a lower level of ability..... Leonards contemporaries have a massive experience advantage.


floyd's chin isn't 100% explored, and its actually shown to be dentable (mosley rocked him seriously, but he's a huge puncher,) but i do believe floyd would balls up if he ever really needed to I don't question his courage and will to win. There's hurt, and then there's semi-Disneyland or full blown disneyland. It's just that he hasn't been tested to the extent where he's getting off the canvas for the third time in the evening and a bunged up and closed eye, and only half in control his senses. AND as an undefeated fighter, we don't know how he'd react after a KO loss or two.

the guy works too hard in the gym to just pack it in when he's in trouble.
and if for no other reason, losing and getting knocked out is bad for business and his wallet True, but also true for any decent professional to ever lace gloves on........ How many boxers ever intended to lose a fight anyway.


and on getting in the ring..
i don't get in there any more, but lets just say that when i was younger i got to the gym and didn't shy away from getting my butt kicked once in a while (i cant be showing up for my day job all busted up, lol)
i've also got family that boxed in the army and professionally going pretty far back

Yeah, you are a good poster,... I'm just here to keep you on your toes, you know I'd hate to see you lose your edge. :heart:

The Surgeon
10-01-2011, 03:10 PM
Whitaker all day long. This is a matchup where Mayweather doesn't even have a edge defensively.....and Whitaker generates a lot more offense then Floyd does.

Poet

I just think neither guy is gonna be winning this big, its gonna be close with alot of missing. Whitaker threw more but i think Mayweather would step to him and try and back him up, look to land right hands on the southpaw

Floyd is a couple of inches taller and has a few more inches on Pea in reach too, not a huge factor but in these close run fights (as i see it) it can be the difference. He's also the puncher

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2011, 03:20 PM
I just think neither guy is gonna be winning this big, its gonna be close with alot of missing. Whitaker threw more but i think Mayweather would step to him and try and back him up, look to land right hands on the southpaw

Floyd is a couple of inches taller and has a few more inches on Pea in reach too, not a huge factor but in these close run fights (as i see it) it can be the difference. He's also the puncher

The difference in height is irrelevant and the difference in reach is only three inches which is negligible. Whatever edge Floyd might have in power (and lets face it, even at Lightweight Floyd ISN'T a huge puncher) isn't going to be a factor here. Neither fighter is going to be able to seriously hurt the other. This is a matchup that ultimately is going to come down to who can score the most. Whitaker's huge edge in volume is going to be decisive even if you rate them even defensively (and I'd say Whitaker's defense was BETTER than Mayweather's).

Poet

The Surgeon
10-01-2011, 03:32 PM
The difference in height is irrelevant and the difference in reach is only three inches which is negligible. Whatever edge Floyd might have in power (and lets face it, even at Lightweight Floyd ISN'T a huge puncher) isn't going to be a factor here. Neither fighter is going to be able to seriously hurt the other. This is a matchup that ultimately is going to come down to who can score the most. Whitaker's huge edge in volume is going to be decisive even if you rate them even defensively (and I'd say Whitaker's defense was BETTER than Mayweather's).

Poet

I do give Pea the slight edge in D, and agree Floyd while a decent puncher was no KO Lord even at LW. I just feel though that May score's the crisper more impressive shots over the course of the fight, enough to convince the judges he deserves the nod. I dont want to say any more than that as it would make it seem i dont rate Whitaker or that i feel STRONGLY either way, when in reality i do rate Pea and dont have a strong sense either way. Id pick Floyd for the reasons given but its Pea, he is hard to pick against with any real authority. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one poet

btw did u catch that Jim Driscoll poem i put up?

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2011, 03:36 PM
I do give Pea the slight edge in D, and agree Floyd while a decent puncher was no KO Lord even at LW. I just feel though that May score's the crisper more impressive shots over the course of the fight, enough to convince the judges he deserves the nod. I dont want to say any more than that as it would make it seem i dont rate Whitaker or that i feel STRONGLY either way, when in reality i do rate Pea and dont have a strong sense either way. Id pick Floyd for the reasons given but its Pea, he is hard to pick against with any real authority. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one poet

btw did u catch that Jim Driscoll poem i put up?

What thread was it in?

The Surgeon
10-01-2011, 03:41 PM
What thread was it in?

Peerless Jim Driscoll Poem

Its on page 7, it died a quick death.... :dead1:

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2011, 03:46 PM
Peerless Jim Driscoll Poem

Its on page 7, it died a quick death.... :dead1:

Not sure how I missed it lol......Must have been one of those mornings where I'm insufficiently caffeinated :hahahaha9:

Poet

New England
10-01-2011, 05:01 PM
Yeah, you are a good poster,... I'm just here to keep you on your toes, you know I'd hate to see you lose your edge. :heart:



all fair points, homie.

and you are right
floyd has only been to semi-disneyland and that was against shane's corpse.

leonard would be the best fighter p4p he ever fought by a huge stretch


and also, the rules, ref, size of the gloves, size of the ring, would all factor in as well

who knows if floyd's little baby hands can hold up if he's gotta wear tiny gloves

SCtrojansbaby
10-01-2011, 05:03 PM
Only if you take a class on pre-1980s boxing.

I love 70s boxing(because of course most of the fights are available)

SCtrojansbaby
10-01-2011, 05:24 PM
they are called trainers
they are not new to boxing. you don't need "science and technology" for that.

you don't learn how to train a fighter in a book or in a classroom. you learn by being around fighters and trainers. over time the sport has evolved in that sense.
i'm not saying it's going to hurt you to read a book, or have a doctorate

i'm saying if that's all you're going on you're going to get your fighters ass kicked

Trainers make you a better boxer, a S&C coach makes you a better athlete as it applies to boxing. Obviously having both is better than just having a trainer.

New England
10-01-2011, 06:38 PM
Trainers make you a better boxer, a S&C coach makes you a better athlete as it applies to boxing. Obviously having both is better than just having a trainer.



it's not horrible to bring one in for a tip top boxer who needs a little bit extra (in manny's case, for example, he's moving up in weight and fighting bigger guys. ariza is certainly helpful in his career. same with the rebuilding of khan from a deerlegged LW to a strong as hell jr WW.)

but ariza didn't learn about boxing in a classroom dude
that stuff will literally get you almost nowhere alone
ariza is an asset because of his involvement for long periods of time with boxing and what he's learned from it

he didn't get out of UCLA ready to train manny pacquiao, dude.
that's literally absurd to me


but boxing training (roadwork, sparring, all your mitt and bag work, skipping rope, abs, etc) is honestly enough.

you don't see floyd mayweather (the best trained/conditioned boxer on the planet right now) using a strength coach



if he did everything he does now and added a "strength and conditioning coach" he'd be overtrained. it might sound like a crazy idea to be "overtrained" but it's certainly a real phenomenon. after many weeks of a huge workload like that the body will break down, especially as it gets older.


i call it getting dinged up
not horrible injuries, but little nagging **** (shinsplints, joint pain, hand issues, etc)
and of course you become more susceptible to the real injuries

wmute
10-01-2011, 06:45 PM
I think Leonard can beat him, Leonard was a master of picking off jabs as shown in his highlight video, and its really hard to throw sustained combinations against someone when the punch you use to set it up is being blocked, Leonard's feinting skills would also cause a problem however Floyd at lightweight is fast, FAST but I think that Leonard can neutralize his speed advantage, just my opinion of course. In three fights I see Floyd winning one but Leonard winning the other two.

but Mayweather rarely uses the jab for anything....

joseph5620
10-01-2011, 06:49 PM
but Mayweather rarely uses the jab for anything....

I was thinking the same thing. Mayweather has the best lead right hand I've seen from any fighter.

wmute
10-01-2011, 06:50 PM
the guy works too hard in the gym to just pack it in when he's in trouble.
and if for no other reason, losing and getting knocked out is bad for business and his wallet



been saying this for years now...

i think when a test will come, it will be like the final rounds of Jones-Tarver 1. Tarver has the biggest win of his life in front of him, but it's the corpse like looking Jones who digs deep inside and gets the round.

Jones and Mayweather looked untouchable for many years, because they were talented young and because they worked their butts off like no tomorrow. Just like Jones reached those two rounds with all he had in him, you better believe Mayweather will do anything to keep his zero.

Greatest1942
10-01-2011, 07:58 PM
first bold
check the rest of my posts, Bro


and you're really getting on me for using the boxrec? moving on

second bold
this just sounds childish to me. i hope you aren't being serious and trying to build a stance on something with logic (or reversed logic, whatever you want to call it. sarcasm,) like that
i'm not being biased toward any era. i've seen plenty of film of both fighters. i'm pretty sure i've seen every mayweather fight available on film

i don't think benny leonard would win a decision against floyd mayweather in a 15 round fight. i think floyd is all wrong for him.
bigger, stronger, better boxer. i developed this opinion through my understanding of boxing. it might not be perfect, nobody's is.
not some hackneyed idea that being undefeated makes floyd the greatest fighter of all time, or that modernity is an inherently greater-making quality

i'm not some floyd fan boy, dude. ask around if you have to. i like to think i know a little bit about boxing.

i pick plenty of WW's to beat floyd
and a few LW's

leonard is not one of them

I said you used Boxwreck to get those loses, which were disputed? Was I wrong...correct me when I say that you did not know that a host of newspaper disputed those decisions...I don't blame you...I did not know these things too. Don't take it personally.

I said Floyd would lose to those fighters if he maintained the same schedule, when did Floyd fight 10-12 fights a year...when you fight quality fighters in a busy schedule some will get the better of you...Do you dispute that any one what ever the quality will lose some if he faces quality opponents every 20-25 days? You box right? You should understand this.

Besides lets see two things:-
There are plenty of fighters Benny met who were bigger than him and he managed fine.

There are plenty of fighters smaller than him who I am sure can beat Floyd. Floyd might find himself fighting Benny's fight.

And yes I pick Benny to beat Floyd, and do that comfortably...and yes Floyd is not one of the few who can beat Benny...I give others a better chance.

New England
10-01-2011, 10:02 PM
I said you used Boxwreck to get those loses, which were disputed? Was I wrong...correct me when I say that you did not know that a host of newspaper disputed those decisions...I don't blame you...I did not know these things too. Don't take it personally.

I said Floyd would lose to those fighters if he maintained the same schedule, when did Floyd fight 10-12 fights a year...when you fight quality fighters in a busy schedule some will get the better of you...Do you dispute that any one what ever the quality will lose some if he faces quality opponents every 20-25 days? You box right? You should understand this.

Besides lets see two things:-
There are plenty of fighters Benny met who were bigger than him and he managed fine.

There are plenty of fighters smaller than him who I am sure can beat Floyd. Floyd might find himself fighting Benny's fight.

And yes I pick Benny to beat Floyd, and do that comfortably...and yes Floyd is not one of the few who can beat Benny...I give others a better chance.


no offense was taken
i was only taken back a bit about the part about the undefeated record, and wanted to make sure it was understood that it has little bearing on my pick or my opinion that floyd is a nightmare for any pure boxer around his size.

and yes, i'm aware that writers covering leonards fights, (and every other competitive fight,) have had different takes on who they thought won which // more rounds. and the fight with britton which in fairness shouldn't be held against him.

and certainly i also respect your point about the nature of leonards schedule.
floyd fights less than once a year at his current pace, which, especially for a 34 year old body, has huge benefits

leonards performance should obviously take into consideration the effect that schedule would have
same with his opponents, of course, they had rough schedules too.

floyd's career would look totally different if he lived 90-100 years ago, obviously

i'd expect a prime and ready leonard and mayweather for the purposes of the matchup. i think that's only fair.

hell, give benny leonard a 10 - 12 week training camp and see if he likes it
he might shine with it or he might feel rusty from the relative lack of activity.

everybody is entitled to an opinion, and i'm of the belief that floyd takes this one.

Greatest1942
10-01-2011, 10:09 PM
no offense was taken
i was only taken back a bit about the part about the undefeated record, and wanted to make sure it was understood that it has little bearing on my pick or my opinion that floyd is a nightmare for any pure boxer around his size.

and yes, i'm aware that writers covering leonards fights, (and every other competitive fight,) have had different takes on who they thought won which // more rounds. and the fight with britton which in fairness shouldn't be held against him.

and certainly i also respect your point about the nature of leonards schedule.
floyd fights less than once a year at his current pace, which, especially for a 34 year old body, has huge benefits

leonards performance should obviously take into consideration the effect that schedule would have
same with his opponents, of course, they had rough schedules too.

floyd's career would look totally different if he lived 90-100 years ago, obviously

i'd expect a prime and ready leonard and mayweather for the purposes of the matchup. i think that's only fair.

hell, give benny leonard a 10 - 12 week training camp and see if he likes it
he might shine with it or he might feel rusty from the relative lack of activity.

everybody is entitled to an opinion, and i'm of the belief that floyd takes this one.


I quoted those loses and the schedule because you brought up those loses stating Floyd could beat them.

If you give him a 10-12 week training for Floyd, Benny will spend more time watching Floyd...This man picked holes in opponents armoury quicker than most people did.

Mate I have nothing against it....if we all agreed (as I often say) this will be a dull fight...and this is a fantasy fight after all...none of us are sure

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2011, 10:12 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Mayweather has the best lead right hand I've seen from any fighter.

Watch Ali against Foreman for clinic in the lead right.

Poet

Greatest1942
10-01-2011, 10:19 PM
Watch Ali against Foreman for clinic in the lead right.

Poet

I saw a film of Mike Gibbons, his right hand was simply awesome...it seemed to me a wonderful tool...he could hit hard with it and also had a wonderful lead...a fighter truly ahead of his times.

The guy KO'd out contenders in one round with that hand and sometimes just used it as a lead...I wont comment if it was the best lead ever...but it was good if my memory serves me right

joseph5620
10-01-2011, 11:47 PM
Watch Ali against Foreman for clinic in the lead right.

Poet

I've watched it numerous times and it was impressive. But not even Ali used the lead right with the frequency that Mayweather does. Ali set everything up with his jab for the most part. Many times Mayweather will use the lead right/left hook in place of a jab. He does this in most of his fights.

Marcov
10-02-2011, 04:39 AM
Leonard outpoints Mayweather.

BennyST
10-03-2011, 09:58 PM
just because he's an all time great and top 3 or whatever doesn't mean he could beat or even be competitive with mayweather, he came from a completely different era.

I don't know how much footage exists of Benny Leonard but from what I've seen yeah he was a great fighter very skilled and crafty but I don't see any reason why floyd would have any problems with the guy.

Did he accomplish more than floyd, is he ranked higher all time? sure why not. but head to head is a different thing. For example Rocky Marciano is ranked pretty high on the all time greatest heavyweight lists that doesn't mean he would be competitive with Vitali Klitschko or Lennox Lewis or Bob Fitzsimmons would beat a prime Roy Jones etc.

From what I've seen, which is quite a bit really as there is a fair amount out there, he is better skilled than any of the guys Floyd fights today. That's not in terms of different eras or whatever, he's just better. His counters are better timed, his jab is more educated, his footwork cleaner, his defense better and he does a lot of the same stuff as Floyd does today, funnily enough.

One of his main weapons was the lead right. He used it just like Floyd does today. As a jab, as a blinder, as a counter.

With HD colour and proper film rate, he would look no different than anyone fighting today, apart from the slight stance difference.

ИATAS
10-04-2011, 08:56 PM
Here we go. The old "boxing has evolved" jazz.

I suggest you check out Poet's thread, it contains a pretty compelling argument that boxing has devolved over time.

That's not even entirely my argument. there are plenty of guys that would whoop ass from back then in today's time. I just don't think Benny Leonard is one of those guys. There are a lot of guys back then that wouldn't make it today (and vice versa for that matter!).

I just think Benny was good in his time. I don't see anything about him that strikes me as a guy that would give floyd problems.