View Full Version : My top 20 welterweights list-IMPROVED!


Pastrano
09-29-2011, 08:13 PM
Ok, now I've learned a little.:D

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sugar Ray Leonard
3. Thomas Hearns
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Jose Napoles
6. Kid Gavilan
7. Emile Griffith
8. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
9. Oscar De La Hoya
10. Carmen Basilio
11. Carlos Palomino
12. Fritzie Zivic
13. Felix Trinidad
14. Curtis Cokes
15. Jimmy McLarnin
16. Wilfred Benitez
17. Donald Curry
18. Barney Ross
19. Marlon Starling
20. Lloyd Honeyghan

SCtrojansbaby
09-29-2011, 08:16 PM
Hearns is way too high so is Palomino

Pastrano
09-29-2011, 08:18 PM
Hearns is way too high so is Palomino

Hearns woulda beaten Leonard if his stamina had been better. And Palomino was the best Mexican technician ever probably. Tommy also dethroned Cuevas easily, Pipino was one of the most feared punchers at the time.

SCtrojansbaby
09-29-2011, 08:24 PM
Hearns woulda beaten Leonard if his stamina had been better. And Palomino was the best Mexican technician ever probably.

off the top

Barrera
Lopez
Sanchez
Gonzalez
Marquez x2

all have superior technical skills

If anybody could cure there weakness they would be better that means nothing

Pastrano
09-29-2011, 08:34 PM
off the top

Barrera
Lopez
Sanchez
Gonzalez
Marquez x2

all have superior technical skills

If anybody could cure there weakness they would be better that means nothing

Which Lopez and Gonzales?? Barrera, no way. Palomino boxes his ears off, but he would be a big bite for him.:lol1: Neither Marquez brother beats him either. Rafa comes close to being as good.

IronDanHamza
09-29-2011, 09:24 PM
Barney Ross and Jimmy Mclarnin way too low.

Where's Joe Walcott?

Oscar definitely not a Top 10 WW.

Scott9945
09-29-2011, 10:03 PM
Which Lopez and Gonzales?? Barrera, no way. Palomino boxes his ears off, but he would be a big bite for him.:lol1: Neither Marquez brother beats him either. Rafa comes close to being as good.

Well the Lopez is no doubt Ricardo. Palomino wasn't nearly the classic boxer you imagine him as. His strengths were conditioning, decent power, and a rock solid chin. He often was outboxed in the early rounds and Wilfred Benitez totally outboxed him.

joseph5620
09-29-2011, 10:33 PM
Well the Lopez is no doubt Ricardo. Palomino wasn't nearly the classic boxer you imagine him as. His strengths were conditioning, decent power, and a rock solid chin. He often was outboxed in the early rounds and Wilfred Benitez totally outboxed him.

I wish Palomino and Cuevas fought when both were champions.

Scott9945
09-29-2011, 10:53 PM
I wish Palomino and Cuevas fought when both were champions.

Especially since they both fought mostly in LA. The timing was perfect, yet there was very little buzz or demand for it here.

jrosales13
09-30-2011, 02:41 AM
If Oscar is in the top 10 ATG WW list...Then the list is not IMPROVED at all.

RubenSonny
09-30-2011, 08:56 AM
If Oscar is in the top 10 ATG WW list...Then the list is not IMPROVED at all.

Its definitely improved, he had Oscar ahead of Leonard before.

SBleeder
09-30-2011, 11:50 AM
Benitez is WAY too low.

Pastrano
09-30-2011, 01:20 PM
Benitez is WAY too low.

I dunno man, I always thought he was better as a lww and lmw. He lost his biggest fight at 147, it was to LEONARD but still...not sure.

NChristo
09-30-2011, 02:36 PM
Hearns woulda beaten Leonard if his stamina had been better. And Palomino was the best Mexican technician ever probably. Tommy also dethroned Cuevas easily, Pipino was one of the most feared punchers at the time.

You put Hearns that high because IF, IF he had stamina he would've beaten Leonard ?.

You rate on things that could of happened instead of what actually happened ?.

You rank him above say Napoles who's run at Welter was 10x what Hearn's was because IF he had stamina he could've of beaten Leonard ?.

Pastrano
09-30-2011, 04:41 PM
You put Hearns that high because IF, IF he had stamina he would've beaten Leonard ?.

You rate on things that could of happened instead of what actually happened ?.

You rank him above say Napoles who's run at Welter was 10x what Hearn's was because IF he had stamina he could've of beaten Leonard ?.

My god. Hearns was BEATING Leonard until he ran out of gas! Plus he crushed Cuevas, Randy Shields, Harold Weston, Bruce Curry and Angel Espada. While its true he reached his peak as a jmw, he still rocked as a welter.

NChristo
09-30-2011, 04:55 PM
My god youre stupid. Hearns was BEATING Leonard until he ran out of gas! Plus he crushed Cuevas, Randy Shields, Harold Weston, Bruce Curry and Angel Espada. While its true he reached his peak as a jmw, he still rocked as a welter.

I'm stupid because you're rating Hearn's on what could of happened ?, right Hearn's lost, no ifs or buts, he lost and he didn't beat Leonard at Welter, that is not a name of his resume until SMW which he did win but is irrelevant here.

My god I am stupid, Hearn's resume ****s at Welter ****s all over Napoles, I mean just look at their best wins, Emile Griffith or Pipino Cuevas, I know right it's stupid even asking because Cuevas is superior in every aspect to some bum like Griffith.

Curtis Cokes ?, pfft he nothing to Bruce ****ing Curry, I mean Bruce is a hofer who got the best in a series with Luis Rodriguez

And who is Ernie Lopez ?, Randy Shields beats him silly like he did the first world class opponent he fought.

Pastrano
09-30-2011, 05:08 PM
I'm stupid because you're rating Hearn's on what could of happened ?, right Hearn's lost, no ifs or buts, he lost and he didn't beat Leonard at Welter, that is not a name of his resume until SMW which he did win but is irrelevant here.

My god I am stupid, Hearn's resume ****s at Welter ****s all over Napoles, I mean just look at their best wins, Emile Griffith or Pipino Cuevas, I know right it's stupid even asking because Cuevas is superior in every aspect to some bum like Griffith.

Curtis Cokes ?, pfft he nothing to Bruce ****ing Curry, I mean Bruce is a hofer who got the best in a series with Luis Rodriguez

Its not who they beat, but how they looked. Napoles lost to Billy Backus, not exactly a HOFer. He also got stopped by Stracey at the end of his career. Tommy looked invincible at almost every weight, that is unless his chin got checked or his stamina failed him.

NChristo
09-30-2011, 05:16 PM
Its not who they beat, but how they looked. Napoles lost to Billy Backus, not exactly a HOFer. He also got stopped by Stracey at the end of his career. Tommy looked invincible at every weight, that is unless his chin got checked or his stamina failed him.

But Napoles was winning both fights up until the stoppages, by your logic he SURELY deserves credit for them !?!?!?!?, no ?.

Napoles looked invincible until his paper thin skin got cut, his only real weakness, the same way Tommy did until his stamina or chin got checked, 2 things Napoles didn't have a problem with, I guess you wouldn't know that though since you don't seem to know that though since you clearly don't know much about Napoles' career and are looking for a way out. (Tried throwing Hearn's resume at me but I compare it too Napoles and now it doesn't matter ?)

Seeing as resume doesn't matter at all though now and only appearence I guess Tyson in 88 is the GOAT in you're opinion ?, no ?.

NChristo
09-30-2011, 05:30 PM
I guess you've seen a lot of Robinson at welter as well ?, I mean I might be stupid but judging just on how they look then putting Robinson at number 1 is questionable no ?.

Especially with the lack of footage and questionable decisions against Gavilan and Basora and others, I haven't seen the fight but the reports don't think he looked so invincible against them.


(In no way questioning Robinsons career, he is #1 Welter for me also, just having some fun)

SBleeder
09-30-2011, 05:34 PM
My god youre stupid. Hearns was BEATING Leonard until he ran out of gas! Plus he crushed Cuevas, Randy Shields, Harold Weston, Bruce Curry and Angel Espada. While its true he reached his peak as a jmw, he still rocked as a welter.

So should we rank all fighters based on their performance through the first 3/4 of a fight? The last I checked, stamina is an important characteristic of a great fighter.

Scott9945
09-30-2011, 07:08 PM
You put Hearns that high because IF, IF he had stamina he would've beaten Leonard ?.

You rate on things that could of happened instead of what actually happened ?.

You rank him above say Napoles who's run at Welter was 10x what Hearn's was because IF he had stamina he could've of beaten Leonard ?.

Yeah that doesn't work. I bet on Hearns to beat Leonard that night. The fact that he could have beaten Leonard was of little comfort and zero value to me. Putting it simply...just look at the scoreboard.

Greatest1942
09-30-2011, 07:14 PM
I think every list has some mistakes, but this has a major one in Joe Walcott...

If Trojan made this list I would not have commented.

Napoles for me, I dont want to debate is a better welter than Hearns

McGoorty
10-01-2011, 04:41 PM
Ok, now I've learned a little.:D

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sugar Ray Leonard
3. Thomas Hearns
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Jose Napoles
6. Kid Gavilan
7. Emile Griffith
8. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
9. Oscar De La Hoya
10. Carmen Basilio
11. Carlos Palomino
12. Fritzie Zivic
13. Felix Trinidad
14. Curtis Cokes
15. Jimmy McLarnin
16. Wilfred Benitez
17. Donald Curry
18. Barney Ross
19. Marlon Starling
20. Lloyd Honeyghan
No Tony DeMarco ?????, seriously I'd back him to beat some of your 20.... probably the hardest puncher or close to it.

McGoorty
10-01-2011, 04:50 PM
I think every list has some mistakes, but this has a major one in Joe Walcott...

If Trojan made this list I would not have commented.

Napoles for me, I dont want to debate is a better welter than Hearns
I didn't notice Walcott was missing, I just expected him there and did not check,... Walcott doesn't just beat the following names... He BEATS THEM !!!!!!!! and beats them big..... for starters.... Donald Curry (KO by 5),..Honeyghan, Starling, Ross (who should be some spots higher in the first place), Benitez, Cokes, De La Hoya (not top 30), and Rodriguez... and he beats Hearns and Gavilan after tough fights...... he's in any reasonable top 10.