View Full Version : A Brief History of the Cossacks


N P
10-10-2005, 09:51 PM
http://www.armymuseum.ru/kaz1_e.html
I. A Brief History of the Cossacks

Centuries ago the forefathers of the present day Cossacks settled in the steppes of the southeastern corner of Europe, bordering on the Black Sea and the Caucasian Mountains on the south, the Caspian Sea and the river Volga on the east, the forests of the Great Russian Plain on the north and the river Dniester on the west. Since the dawn of civilization these steppes had been crossed again and again by the peoples of the Great Migration. The original Cossacks were the product of an intermixture of all these peoples with the previous settlers of the Slavic race. Byzantine writers of the Tenth Century described the Cossacks as a separate people who lived on the river Don, and called them "the brave and strong people." In old Russian chronicles they were similarly described for the first time in 1261. The Don Cossacks fought on the side of the Russian Grand Duke Dimitry against the Tartars in 1380. In all the records of that period the Cossacks were described as a series of independent communities, loosely bound into larger units of a military character, entirely separate from the Russian State. The Russian historian Karamzin wrote: "Where the Cossacks came from cannot be said with certainty, but, in any event, it [their State] existed prior to the Tartar invasion of 1223. These knights lived separately, without pledging allegiance to the Russians, the Poles or the Tartars." Their tribal units, organizations similar to Scottish clans, occupied the whole area between the rivers Dniester on the West and the Volga on the East. At the head of each tribe was an Ataman, or Hetman, elected by the people; the people also elected, for a specifically limited term, the other administrative officers of the tribe: the judge, the scribe, the lesser officials, and even the clergy. Supreme legislative authority rested in the Tribal Assembly (the King, or the Rada). Executive powers were vested in the Ataman; at time of war he was the supreme commander in the field. In the absence of written laws, the Cossacks were governed by the "Cossack Traditions," the Common, unwritten law.

In the Sixteenth Century these numerous Cossack clans consolidated into two large republics: one, known as the Zaporojie, on the lower bends of the river Dnieper, sandwiched between Russia, Poland and the Tartars of the Crimea; the other, the Don Cossack State, on the river Don, separating the then weak Russian State from the Mongol and Tartar tribes, which were at that time vassals of the powerful Sultan of Turkey. Numerous Russian, Polish, Lithuanian, Turkish and other historical documents of that period contain mentions of these two states, always referring to them as sovereign republics. For instance, in 1549 the famous Czar of Russia, Ivan the Terrible, replying to a request of the Turkish Sultan to stop the aggressive actions of the Don Cossacks, stated, "The Cossacks of the Don are not my subjects, and they go to war or live in peace without my knowledge." Ten years before that, in a reverse situation, when Czar Vassily the Third asked the Sultan to curb the Cossacks, the Sultan replied. "The Cossacks do not swear allegiance to me, and they live as they themselves please."

This was the period during which the expansion of Russia intensified and the consolidation of Poland took place. Both states were enforcing the feudal system which attached peasants to the land and made them the property of the nobles. This policy, coupled with the territorial expansion of these two states and their conquest of their weaker neighbors, created a condition in which all men who did not relish the idea of becoming somebody's slave, and all who valued personal freedom, fled to the southeast and found refuge in the land of the Cossacks where they could be free. All protests and ultimatums of the Czars and the Kings to return their subjects were of no avail; the Cossacks then coined their famous motto: "There is no extradition from the Don."

Incidentally, this exodus of freedom-loving people from medieval Russia to the land of the Cossacks is the foundation for the official Russian historians' assertion that Cossackdom originated in that period, and that the Cossacks were nothing more than the hordes of Russian peasants who had run away from their masters, the Russian boyars. On this ground some Russian politicians of the later Imperial period refused to recognize the Cossacks as separate and distinct from the Russians proper as an ethnical group. At the present moment, however, this theory is supported only by the most reactionary circles of the Russian emigration, who in this respect are in perfect accord with the Kremlin. All other historians and political leaders recognize that the Cossacks, as an independent ethnic and political entity, existed long before this exodus of the freedom loving element from Muskovite Russia and the Poland of the Nobles. It should be noted, in passing, that the very word "Kazak" (Cossack) means, in Tartar "The Freeman."

The two great Cossack States of that period, the Don and the Zaporojie, constituted unique military orders whose main raison d'etre was to protect the Eastern Catholic Church from Roman Catholicism and Mohammedanism. It can be truly said that but for the fanatical resistance of the Cossacks of Zaporojie, militant Roman Catholicism would have taken over and conquered the whole of Eastern Europe, while at the same time, unless the Don Cossacks had been in its way, Mohammedanism might have become the dominant religion everywhere east of Poland.

In the course of time the Cossacks grew in numbers and became a nation of professional soldiers; they established an endless chain of posts and settlements, protecting Russian towns and villages from the raids and invasions of the militant Mongol and Tartar tribes from the south and the east. The Cossacks knew that passive defense alone could not stop and prevent these raids, and they often carried the war to the enemy. Afoot and on their swift horses, and quite often in their crude boats, they raided the settlements and camps of the neighboring Tartars of Crimea and Astrakhan; they sacked border towns and fortresses of Polcfid; at times they joined with the Poles and Crimean Tartars and waged war against various Russian Principalities; they pillaged and burned the Black Sea ports of Turkey and those of Persia on the Caspian Sea. As an example of their daring and prowess, historians recite the exploits of a band of Zaporojie Cossacks who in the Sixteenth Century penetrated the Straits of the Bosphorus, crossed the Sea of Marmora, squeezed through the Dardanelles, sailed the long Mediterranean Sea, captured the Spanish city of Saragossa, and held it against all comers for a full two years. Again, in 1696, the Don Cossacks, sailing the Sea of Azov in their flimsy rowboats, in the presence of the Russian Czar Peter the Great, met and destroyed the powerful Turkish fleet. Similarly, though much later, in 1828 the Cossacks of Zaporojie, in the war of Russia against Turkey, sailed the Black Sea in their light boats (they called them "chaikes," the seagulls) and took by assault the powerful Turkish fortress Brailov.

N P
10-10-2005, 10:54 PM
As mentioned before, during the Fourteenth, Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries the principal role of the Cossacks consisted of the protection of Russia and, occasionally, of Poland from the aggressive Mohammedan peoples. The next, the Seventeenth Century, was for them an era of colonization when the frontiers of Russia were moved southward and eastward. Originally their penetration was at the expense of the Tartars, who lived along the northern shores of the Black Sea; then they crossed the Volga and built their towns and forts in the foothills of the Urals; then the famous Ataman of the Don Cossacks, Ermak, crossed the Urals, conquered the Tartars of Siberia and "presented" that vast land to Ivan the Terrible. At the same time other Cossacks moved southward and established the Terek clan on the northern slopes of the Caucasian mountains. Following Ermak, who was killed in a skirmish with the nomads, roving Cossack bands continued their penetration eastward, until finally they discovered and colonized for Russia the remote provinces of the Far East. This process of penetration and discovery, of scouting and acquisition, is similar to the "Westward Ho" expansion in the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries in America: the same wilderness, hostile natives, hardships, and the urge to get a little further and to see what lies beyond each successive hill. Just as the discovery of the American West was made possible through the toil and sweat and blood of the intrepid bands of frontiersmen, whose names were often unknown to the settlers who followed them, so the discovery and conquest of Siberia and the Far East called for superhuman efforts — to cross mile-wide rivers, to penetrate virgin taiga forests, always short of food and amunition. It should be noted that for the most part this drive toward the broad Pacific was on the Cossacks own initiative; all they got (and that infrequently) from the Russian power was some lead and powder. Yet every newly discovered land was taken by the Cossacks in the name of the Russian Czar and "presented" to him by the conquerors. Without written commissions these men served the Czar as his diplomats, settlers and border guards.

In this process of moving the borders of the Russia State outward, the to camp on frozen tundra, always facing resistance from the aborigines, Cossacks customarily set military posts and forts, garrisoned by a few wounded and crippled men and some friendly natives; soon they would get themselves wives from among the local belles; then a town would be built around the fort, roads be laid out to the nearest forts (stanitzas) ; and finally, a new clan (voisko) would be established, guarding the new subjects of the Russian Czar and protecting the new border. Eleven such clans existed in Russia before the revolution of 1917, strung from the Black Sea to the shores of the Pacific, "eleven pearls in the crown of the Russian Emperor."

It was in 1646 that the Cossacks came to the shores of the Pacific Ocean; two years later Dejnev, a Cossack ataman, discovered the Bering Strait; within a few years the Cossacks had crossed this ribbon of water and established settlements in Alaska, Kamchatka and all through the Pacific Northwest. Still later the Cossacks, moving southward toward China, took for Russia the rich Amur, Ussuri and Maritime Provinces., establishing contact with China, Korea and Japan. In the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries the Cossack regiments were incorporated in the Russian Army, and as part of it fought against Napoleon and in the Crimea and four Turkish Wars. They bore the brunt of the struggle for conquest and possession of the Caucasus and Turkestan. When the major wars with the neighboring states were over and the borders of the Empire had become stabilized, the Cossacks were given another, not less arduous, task: to keep the new frontiers inviolate and to protect peaceful settlers from hostile actions by Turks, Persians, Afghans, Mongols and Manchus. Other Cossack regiments were strung along the borders separating Russia from her western neighbors, the Austrians and Germans. The exploits of the Cossacks in World War I are too well known to be dwelt upon here. It will suffice to state that the Cossacks were in the vanguard of the Russian Army when it was advancing and the same Cossacks were covering the army at the time of retreats. Notwithstanding such exposure, Cossack prisoners of war were so rare an event, that in 1914 and 1915 the few captured Cossacks were carried in special cages through distant Hungarian towns to show people that even Cossacks could be taken prisoners.

BLOODSHED
10-10-2005, 10:55 PM
I know about the Cossacks and the Tartars(Mongols). I read A Hero of Our Time.

Russian literature is the best.

N P
10-10-2005, 11:11 PM
Napoleon “Cossack troops is the best part of the Russian Army, their character is marked by nobility, courage and bravery”.

Leo Tolstoy “Cossacks created the Russian state”.

N P
10-10-2005, 11:16 PM
I know about the Cossacks and the Tartars(Mongols). I read A Hero of Our Time.

Russian literature is the best.


Thanks, man.

N P
10-10-2005, 11:19 PM
Mnash,

is Diego still in your p4p list?


Nice avatar BTW -- I watched the movie.

BLOODSHED
10-10-2005, 11:23 PM
Diego still is. I think no one has his resume over the last two year. Thats why. I also thought Hopkins lost to Taylor not because Taylor is the better fighter its because Hopkins starting fighting the right fight at the end of the fight.
Mnash,

is Diego still in your p4p list?


Nice avatar BTW -- I watched the movie.

N P
10-11-2005, 01:30 AM
Diego still is. I think no one has his resume over the last two year. Thats why. I also thought Hopkins lost to Taylor not because Taylor is the better fighter its because Hopkins starting fighting the right fight at the end of the fight.

how about PBF? Hopkins is good and deserves to be top 5

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 01:41 AM
I guess the Cossacks are all racists then because they all supported Germany in world war II with great vehmency.

BLOODSHED
10-11-2005, 01:46 AM
pbf is number one
hopkins two
diego 3rd/castillo/judah (undisputed champ)
how about PBF? Hopkins is good and deserves to be top 5

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 01:46 AM
bunch of racists you writing an article about. You should be ashamed or yourself.

BLOODSHED
10-11-2005, 01:46 AM
Malcolm X is a LONG but good movie.
Mnash,

is Diego still in your p4p list?


Nice avatar BTW -- I watched the movie.

N P
10-11-2005, 01:46 AM
I guess the Cossacks are all racists then because they all supported Germany in world war II with great vehmency.


Nope. Majority of the Cossack men fought for the Red Army. One of my grandfathers, a Cossack and an officer of the Red Army, died in 1944 fighting Nazis.

Some White Cossacks joined the Vlasov Army, but their numbers were small. The end for them was very tragic -- not only they but also their children and spouses were all killed by the Commies.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 01:47 AM
Nope. Majority of the Cossack men fought for the Red Army. One of my granfathers, a Cossack and an officer of the Red Army, died in 1944 fighting Nazis.

Some White Cossacks joined the Vlasov Army, but their numbers were small. The end for them was very tragic -- not only they but also their children and spouses were all killed by the Commies.

Most of them fought for Germany. I dont care what you learned in soviet grammar school. Or on TV.

N P
10-11-2005, 01:48 AM
bunch of racists you writing an article about. You should be ashamed or yourself.

you are wrong;

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 01:49 AM
I know the cossacks are used for a symbol of Ukranian nationalism.

N P
10-11-2005, 01:49 AM
Most of them fought for Germany. I dont care what you learned in soviet grammar school. Or on TV.

What an idiot. My family all fought against Nazis in WWII.

I know this not from TV or grammar school.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 01:49 AM
you are wrong;

I am afraid not. Quite alot of the soldiers of the German Garrison in Warsaw were cossacks. Because you know how much the cossacks love the Polish.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 01:50 AM
My family all fought against Nazis in WWII.

.

exactly.........

spot on I am.

N P
10-11-2005, 01:52 AM
I know the cossacks are used for a symbol of Ukranian nationalism.


are you talking about Don Cossacks, McKay ?


or is it Nichtgeflechten?

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 01:53 AM
are you talking about Don Cossacks, McKay ?


or is it Nichtgeflechten?

I am talking about cossacks.

N P
10-11-2005, 01:53 AM
exactly.........

spot on I am.



against --- did you miss that word?

N P
10-11-2005, 01:54 AM
I am talking about cossacks.


Are you talking about Don or Zaporozhie Cossacks?

You do not know what you are talking about, McKay.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 01:57 AM
Are you talking about Don or Zaporozhie Cossacks?

You do not know what you are talking about, McKay.

you keep changing the defintion of what a cossack is. I thought it was pretty cut and plain. And I am not McKay. I correspond with him via PM. But I am surely not him.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 01:59 AM
Well actually I used to correspond with the McKay to be accurate. But he hasn't been around lately.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:02 AM
you keep changing the defintion of what a cossack is. I thought it was pretty cut and plain.


Well, you thought wrong. There are or were (basically) ukrainian (Zaporozhie) and russian (Don) cossacks, and you are confusing the two. You need to read the head article before you start discussing anything.


Does this sound like Ukrainian Nationalism to you?

Napoleon “(Don) Cossack troops is the best part of the Russian Army, their character is marked by nobility, courage and bravery”.

Leo Tolstoy “(Don) Cossacks created the Russian state”.
__________________

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:03 AM
Well, you thought wrong. There are or were (basically) ukrainian (Zaporozhie) and russian (Don) cossacks, and you are confusing the two. You need to read the head article before you start discussing anything.


Does this sound like Ukrainian Nationalism to you?

Napoleon “(Don) Cossack troops is the best part of the Russian Army, their character is marked by nobility, courage and bravery”.

Leo Tolstoy “(Don) Cossacks created the Russian state”.
__________________

Ok......... They an obscure lot aint they?

N P
10-11-2005, 02:05 AM
Ok.........whatever. They an obscure lot aint they? haha


haha, Napoleon and Tolstoy can be obscure only to a German Nazi

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:05 AM
haha, Napoleon and Tolstoy can be obscure only to a German Nazi

your rhetoric is very vauge m8. That is the point. Whereas mine is not. It is fact of the matter. You like to change things as to the way they suit you. Rather to avoid factuality.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:06 AM
your rhetoric is very vauge m8. That is the point. Whereas mine is not. It is fact of the matter.


Your logic is fact of the ****, and you know it.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:07 AM
Your logic is fact of the ****, and you know it.

Nobody is talking about logic. We are talking about factuality. And how you like to change definitions as they suit your cause. No matter of what actual facts m8.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:08 AM
Though factuality and logic ideally should be hand and hand.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:08 AM
They should compliment each other as my statements do.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:08 AM
Nobody is talking about logic. We are talking about factuality. And how you like to change definitions as they suit your cause. No matter of what actual facts m8.


change definitions? bull. clarify definitions! that you know **** about.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:10 AM
change definitions? bull. clarify definitions! that you know **** about.

I say cossacks were for this. You say. Oh "those arn't real cossacks" you see there are different kinds of cossacks. And what a cossack is by your article is a long discertation of obscurity. No choice to be leery of such things m8. I would pay no attention this thread, but I follow historical matters you see. And like to see that they are clear.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:11 AM
They should compliment each other as my statements do.

and guess what all Don Cossacks have some Jewish blood from Khazars...

that might start freaking you out, McGay

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:11 AM
and guess what all Don Cossacks have some Jewish blood from Khazars...

that might start freaking you out, McGay

I am not McKay lol....

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:12 AM
Anyway no matter. I bet they dont. Have "jewish blood" from the "khazars." lol

N P
10-11-2005, 02:12 AM
I say cossacks were for this. You say. Oh "those arn't real cossacks" you see there are different kinds of cossacks. And what a cossack is by your article is a long discertation of obscurity. No choice to be leery of such things m8. I would pay no attention this thread, but I follow historical matters you see. And like to see that they are clear.


repeat is over, idiot; done with you

N P
10-11-2005, 02:12 AM
Anyway no matter. I bet they dont. Have "jewish blood" from the "khazars." hahha


www.khazaria.com

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:13 AM
repeat is over, idiot; done with you

I want to join team Russia. But I am Catholic. And not Russian or jewish. lol

N P
10-11-2005, 02:14 AM
I want to join team Russia.


Only non-morons are allowed.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:15 AM
Only non-morons are allowed.

I guess you should be banned then.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:16 AM
I guess you should be banned then.

explain...

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:16 AM
But your a gangsta russian jewish mafia insider arn't you. I still consider you a moron though. Actually much worse despite any power or money you wield. I have no respect for you. You are an animal to me.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:16 AM
But your a gangsta russian jewish mafia insider arn't you. I still consider you a moron though. Actually much worse despite any power or money you wield. I have no respect for you. You are an animal to me.


ha-ha McGay, that's you !

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:17 AM
Totally lacking humanity. Totally lacking in morality. Therefore you fail to meet what is human standard.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:19 AM
Totally lacking humanity. Totally lacking in morality. Therefore you fail to meet what is human standard.



Nazi pig ...

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:24 AM
Nazi pig ...

I am not jewish (ashkanazim). I am not a pig. quite sorry m8.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:25 AM
I am not a pig. quite sorry m8.

You are McKay.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:26 AM
It hurts ye for somebody te tell like it is for you. It will be your downfall. relying on thuggery tactics lies and rest of it. You dont believe it. You believe thuggery and lies is strentgh purity and humanity is weakness. But in time, you will learn. You know even now this to be the case. But you lie so often, so criminal in nature it is difficult for you even to think clearly to yourself let confer something to another.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:27 AM
It hurts ye for somebody te tell like it is for you. It will be your downfall. relying on thuggery tactics lies and rest of it. You dont believe it. You believe thuggery and lies is strentgh purity and humanity is weakness. But in time, you will learn. You know even now this to be the case. But you lie so often, so criminal in nature it is difficult for you even to think clearly to yourself let alone another.


Jesus Christ...

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:28 AM
I have heard real criminals. Criminals in nature on numerous occasions tell me. "you have to believe your own lies." To be propper in criminality.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:28 AM
Jesus Christ...

Correct.....

N P
10-11-2005, 02:29 AM
I have heard real criminals. Criminals in nature on numerous occasions tell me. "you have to believe your own lies." To be propper in criminality.


Please see a doctor, man. That's all I can say.

May God help you.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:29 AM
Something positive. A light runs through your cranium. Ode de Joy, it is a new day.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:30 AM
Something positive. A light runs through your cranium. Ode de Joy, it is a new day.


Just get a life... unless your purpose in life is to be a troll

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:31 AM
Please see a doctor, man. That's all I can say.

May God help you.

You wish no good upon me. May God help me at what? Becoming an ignorant slave. Becoming an agent of someone of your ilk. Will never happen.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:33 AM
RIP this thread.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:34 AM
I dont like to play meself up. But I am indeed devine. I never will go away, and I dont mean here and now. I mean for eternity. Every passing moment I grow stronger. My entity, my essence, my will, and my purpose.

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:35 AM
Never shall pass out of existance. And will restore order.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:37 AM
Are you SDW, if you claim not to be McKay?

Mark 22
10-11-2005, 02:41 AM
I know who McKay is because I have conversed with via Pm. And the guy gave me points and Karma. I dont know the other fella you speak of.

Moon
10-11-2005, 10:15 AM
Napoleon “Cossack troops is the best part of the Russian Army, their character is marked by nobility, courage and bravery”.

Leo Tolstoy “Cossacks created the Russian state”.
Count Philippe-Paul de Segur (Aide de Camp de Napolean during Russian Campaign)" ... the barbarians did not choose to attack in full force, but waited like wild animals to charge at the weakened men in the rear."
Segur was known for his objectivity and for being entirely unsentimental in his recounts of many of Napoleans Campaigns. The quote above references the cossacks destruction of the Army of Italy during the great retreat.

My guess is that Count Tolstoy never witnessed the actions of the cossacks, as Segur did many times. Napolean's words you quote are likely from his memoirs, which are simply one man's account during the waning years of his life, affected by his deep sentimentality. Recall, the cossacks never faced Napolean face-on during the Russian advance, but waited until the european army was wasting from hunger and weather during the long winter retreat.

N P
10-11-2005, 10:22 AM
Count Philippe-Paul de Segur (Aide de Camp de Napolean during Russian Campaign)" ... the barbarians did not choose to attack in full force, but waited like wild animals to charge at the weakened men in the rear."
Segur was known for his objectivity and for being entirely unsentimental in his recounts of many of Napoleans Campaigns. The quote above references the cossacks destruction of the Army of Italy during the great retreat.

My guess is that Count Tolstoy never witnessed the actions of the cossacks, as Segur did many times. Napolean's words you quote are likely from his memoirs, which are simply one man's account during the waning years of his life, affected by his deep sentimentality. Recall, the cossacks never faced Napolean face-on during the Russian advance, but waited until the european army was wasting from hunger and weather during the long winter retreat.

What a bunch of nonsense.

You are blaming Cossacks for being smart! This is just completely absurd!

What the bheck was de Segur and all the French army doing in Russia in the first place?

Maybe he and his troops went there on a tourist trip, and evil Cossacks attacked them, didn't they?

You should take a look at "War and Peace" by Tolstoy. He strongly stated how rightful he thought the Russian tactics were. Tolstoy also strongly rejected the weak-ass complaints of the French.

The invadors all deserved it, every bit of it!

N P
10-11-2005, 10:25 AM
the great retreat.
.



the great retreat? lmao




after a great campaign... lol

N P
10-11-2005, 10:38 AM
.

My guess is that Count Tolstoy never witnessed the actions of the cossacks...



This is horse**** of an enormous size.


Count Tolstoy used to be a Russian officer. He had seen Cossacks in action. Incidentally, Tolstoy also wrote "Cossacks"... a very good reading.

Moon
10-11-2005, 12:51 PM
If you are unaware of Segur, then you might be limiting your knowledge of Napolean's reign, since will have never read the numerous first-hand accounts witnessed by Segur while at Napolean's side. Recall, Segur was the Aide de Camp.

If you choose to use a quotattion from Napolean to assert anything about the cossacks, then please dig deeper than you did. How about "Troublesome insects capable only of attacking dying men and their abondoned wagons ...". Napolean cherised the leaders of the cossacks for their great ability to survive, but often had damning remarks about their lack of civility (given the stadard of the day).

Regarding Tolstoy, I was referring to Tolstoy not witnessing the actions of the "insects", except at some safe distance, where everyone is satified that the end justifies the means. If you are interested, try reading some of Tolstoy's numerous correspondence to M. Gandhi, which also contains very unflattering references to the cossacks. They're his words, not mine.

Moon
10-11-2005, 12:56 PM
the great retreat? lmao




after a great campaign... lol
Actually, it is often referred to as the "great retreat", since there has never been another of that scale in history, unless you look to the modern Germans. "Great retreat" are not my words, really. You'l have to blame a bunch of historians, inclduing Segur.

N P
10-11-2005, 01:34 PM
If you are unaware of Segur, then you might be limiting your knowledge of Napolean's reign, since will have never read the numerous first-hand accounts witnessed by Segur while at Napolean's side. Recall, Segur was the Aide de Camp.



hello? Did I say I am not aware of Segur?

N P
10-11-2005, 01:42 PM
Actually, it is often referred to as the "great retreat", since there has never been another of that scale in history, unless you look to the modern Germans. "Great retreat" are not my words, really. You'l have to blame a bunch of historians, inclduing Segur.

I know these are not your words. I do find it very entertaining though how the historians made up such a pretty name for the humiliation called "great retreat".

N P
10-11-2005, 01:49 PM
"Troublesome insects capable only of attacking dying men and their abondoned wagons ..."


The Cossacks were the paratroopers of the Russian Army, in the modern terms. They were the vaguard of the Russian Army in many wars.

They certainly did not fight the French "noble" style of war, and that's why they beat the French.

Tolstoy called this guerilla tactics used by Russians "the people's stick of war".

The Napolenic Army got what it deserved. I do not feel one bit sorry for them.

N P
10-11-2005, 01:50 PM
The French and the Nazis came to my land. They got what they deserved.

And yes Cossacks used sables and beheaded many French soldiers, which de Segur complained so much about. That was not pretty, but no war is pretty.

This is how Cossacks fought since 14th century or even earlier, and I am sorry they did not make any special adjustment to the French. I guess the French preferred to be killed by a bullet, but I do not really care. They really got what they asked for.

N P
10-11-2005, 02:05 PM
Napolean cherised the leaders of the cossacks for their great ability to survive, but often had damning remarks about their lack of civility (given the stadard of the day).



I repeat the quote for your information: "Cossack troops is the best part of the Russian Army, their character is marked by nobility, courage and bravery”.

Does "troops" read as "Cossack leaders" to you? Do not distort the quote by paraphrasing. It is simply not honest.

Civility in war? War is not civil, period. The French started it and they got what they deserved.