View Full Version : Sonny Listons power overrated?


The_One77
10-08-2005, 09:25 PM
I just thought that Liston's power was never what it was cracked up to be, 11 men went the distance with him and the only good fighters he beat within the distance were Floyd Patterson (who had a china chin anyway), Zorra Foley and Cleveland Williams, who generally lost by tko.

I don't see how this guy hits harder than Tyson, Foreman or Frazier.

THE REAL NINJA
10-08-2005, 10:27 PM
I just thought that Liston's power was never what it was cracked up to be, 11 men went the distance with him and the only good fighters he beat within the distance were Floyd Patterson (who had a china chin anyway), Zorra Foley and Cleveland Williams, who generally lost by tko.

I don't see how this guy hits harder than Tyson, Foreman or Frazier.
i agree not tyson foreman frazier lewis louis shavers alot of guys hit harder bowe maybe even holmes

M26
10-09-2005, 08:47 AM
I say Sonny Liston was among the 5 hardest punchers of all time.

Pugnacious_Z
10-09-2005, 10:27 AM
just coz ppl last the distance with sum1 doesnt mean he doesnt hit dat hard. look at vitali klitschko, all his wins except 1 are from KO or TKO, does dat mean dat he hits harder then tyson? NO. if u dont put the person in the postion to knock him, u cud have the hardest punch and it wudnt matter

kapersky
10-09-2005, 11:17 AM
just coz ppl last the distance with sum1 doesnt mean he doesnt hit dat hard. look at vitali klitschko, all his wins except 1 are from KO or TKO, does dat mean dat he hits harder then tyson? NO. if u dont put the person in the postion to knock him, u cud have the hardest punch and it wudnt matter
u are on my ignore from now

Dr.Depravity
10-09-2005, 01:05 PM
I learned something interesting about Sonny a week ago. My father In law said is was common knowlege that Sonny was a mafia fighter. He started out breaking thumbs and collecting, and was thought of as a tool by orginized crime for fixing fights. Who knows the truth.

M26
10-09-2005, 03:30 PM
I learned something interesting about Sonny a week ago. My father In law said is was common knowlege that Sonny was a mafia fighter. He started out breaking thumbs and collecting, and was thought of as a tool by orginized crime for fixing fights. Who knows the truth.

Yes, I have heard that rumor as well. I remember reading an article about Listons mafia connections. The author of this article was pretty convinced that Liston was told by the mafia to lose against Clay/Ali in both of their fights.

I think Clay whupped Liston fair and simple in 1964. In 65' it is obvious to me that Liston threw the fight. As to why, I have no clue.

Kid Achilles
10-09-2005, 03:44 PM
A prime Liston would have given Ali the toughest night of his life and could have conceivably knocked him out. Liston on his best night had all the skills and talent of a heavyweight great. People were comparing him to Joe Louis (which was never, ever done with Foreman at any point in his career). What set him back was a self destructive personality and an America that did not accept or appreciate him one bit.

No way is his power overrated. If anything, it's a bit underrated because of his relatively low KO %. You have to remember, this is a man who seriously hurt people with even his jab. He had the biggest fists of any heavyweight champion before or after him. Even a prime Tyson admitted he would have been afraid to fight Liston in an old TV special, afraid of the jab, and afraid of the hooks and uppercuts that would follow if he got by it.

Prime Liston was a monster who would have been a serious threat to any heavyweight who lived. The old guy who fought Ali in 64 and 65 wasn't even close.

Warhawk46
10-09-2005, 05:44 PM
While Sonny Listen was a very good champion, I think you are overstaing his greatness to an extent.

He had very heavy hands, but slow movement. He was flat-footed, didnt use his feet to create angles. I think this is his greatest weakness. But his jab...like running into a concrete wall!

cple
10-09-2005, 06:31 PM
In my opinion, his power is not overrated. Like Kid Achilles mentioned, his KO% isn't too entirely impressive, but that's deceptive. Liston had the power to stop nearly anyone he faced at any moment. People went into the ring with Liston fearing death. He was a badass mutha****a.

Watching Liston fight, i don't see too many glaring weaknesses. Yes, he wasn't too particularly quick, but he had decent mobility for a man his size, and fine boxing skill. Though Liston doesn't rate too very high on my "greatest heavyweights of all-time" list, he's up there on my "who-beats-who" heavyweight list.

Warhawk46
10-09-2005, 08:38 PM
That's fair. I agree he had the ability to beat nearly anyone in a given fight.

I also rate him higher in mythical match-ups than I do among the greats/

Pugnacious_Z
10-10-2005, 08:14 AM
u are on my ignore from now

ye coz ur a pufter, ur a retard, say one thing about my post dat wasnt true pufter, ur lucky ur not infront of me, i wud munch u up *****

KidBlackie
10-10-2005, 02:31 PM
Thing about Liston is that he never proved he had power against top talent. Williams and Folley didn't have the best chins and of course poor Floyd was so overmatched physically he just froze in the ring. Machen was a good boxer who lasted the distance.

I have to wonder how Liston might have fared against a Lyle or another tough powerful heavy his own size? In the end Liston is an enigma. We don't even know exactly when he was born, but he definitely had the natural physical gifts to be a great though his heart and mental attributes might be called into question.

Kid Achilles
10-10-2005, 02:51 PM
I think he did prove his top talent against opposition. He handled guys like Machen, Folley, and Cleveland Williams easily, and they were all in their primes and very good contenders. The Williams that Ali fought was damaged goods and had suffered a gunshot injury that limited his movement. He was a heavybag. The Williams that Liston faced was a dangerous hard punching heavyweight in his prime and Liston cut right through him.

I actually think Liston's resume was superior to Ali's in the 60's. He fought the guys Ali later fought, but he did it while they were young and dangerous, and he almost always knocked them out early.

Liston was very, very impressive on the way up.

KidBlackie
10-10-2005, 04:34 PM
[[[I actually think Liston's resume was superior to Ali's in the 60's.]]]
=========================

Ali's comp in the 60s was miserable save the Liston fights which may have been thrown. The point was that Williams and Folley did not have good chins no matter how good they were, and they were only good, not great or championship material. If Liston were to have to compete in the 70s or the 90s he would have much stiffer, larger, more powerful comp and likely wouldn't have fared as well.

Verstyle
10-15-2005, 06:56 AM
I think he did prove his top talent against opposition. He handled guys like Machen, Folley, and Cleveland Williams easily, and they were all in their primes and very good contenders. The Williams that Ali fought was damaged goods and had suffered a gunshot injury that limited his movement. He was a heavybag. The Williams that Liston faced was a dangerous hard punching heavyweight in his prime and Liston cut right through him.

I actually think Liston's resume was superior to Ali's in the 60's. He fought the guys Ali later fought, but he did it while they were young and dangerous, and he almost always knocked them out early.

Liston was very, very impressive on the way up.


someones really hyping up liston.tyson within 7

Kid Achilles
10-17-2005, 12:16 PM
Yes I agree. Liston knocks Tyson out in seven.

Warhawk46
10-18-2005, 07:01 PM
How can you honestly think Liston knocks out Tyson in seven?

Not likely. Liston wouldnt catch Tyson. His jab, though extremely powerful, wouldnt find Tyson enough. Remember when Tyson fought Pinklon Thomas in 1987? Boxing insiders and respected authorities said that Thomas's jab was nearly on par with Sonny Liston's. It was the same type of jab, same purpose behind it. Tyson avoided Thomas's for most of the night, and when it did land, Tyson walked through it.

The difference in the Tyson-Liston fight would be that Mike was just as big, but twice the athlete. He was leagues faster and pressured better.

Skydog
10-18-2005, 10:38 PM
Mike was just as big as Sonny? Who the hell are you kidding?

random guy
10-19-2005, 12:31 AM
just coz ppl last the distance with sum1 doesnt mean he doesnt hit dat hard. look at vitali klitschko, all his wins except 1 are from KO or TKO, does dat mean dat he hits harder then tyson? NO. if u dont put the person in the postion to knock him, u cud have the hardest punch and it wudnt matter
as crazy as that sound your right. look at foreman-ali

Warhawk46
10-23-2005, 12:30 AM
Sonny Liston was maybe 6'1", 215ish pounds, he had a long 84" reach.

Mike Tyson was 5'11", 215 lbs, 71" reach.

So yes, Tyson was nearly the same size as Liston, except for the reach. Liston used his reach to great advantage and employed a ramrod jab...however, he wasnt quick enought to find Tyson often enough with it.

Dempsey 1919
10-25-2005, 02:55 PM
Charles "Sonny" Liston is the second hardest puncher ever, slightly under George Foreman. He could knock you out with one jab! And although the Clay-Liston I bout didn't show it, he had fairly quick hands. How else would he have demolished the eluse, great Floyd Patterson twice in the first round.