View Full Version : Agree Or Disagree, Roy Jones Jr Top 30 ATG?


Perfect Plex
06-15-2011, 10:17 PM
Should Jones be in a top 30 ATG list?

Terry A
06-15-2011, 10:52 PM
Proud to cast a "Yes" vote.

raf727
06-15-2011, 11:45 PM
not even a question

SCtrojansbaby
06-16-2011, 12:53 AM
Roy has one of the great resumes in modern boxing right there with Duran, Leonard, Ali and Chavez

A+ wins :

Dominated prime hall of famers james Toney and Bernard Hopkins

B+ wins:

Dominated Montell Griffin 1, Eric Harding, John Ruiz, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Virgil Hill, Mike McCullum, Merqui Sosa.

Did not have one legit loss in his prime

JAB5239
06-16-2011, 01:09 AM
Roy has one of the great resumes in modern boxing right there with Duran, Leonard, Ali and Chavez

A+ wins :

Dominated prime hall of famers james Toney and Bernard Hopkins

B+ wins:

Dominated Montell Griffin 1, Eric Harding, John Ruiz, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Virgil Hill, Mike McCullum, Merqui Sosa.

Did not have one legit loss in his prime

His resume is not in par with the fighters you named.

Hopkins was not prime.

Jones was legitimately losing to Montell Griffin when he was DQ'd.

JAB5239
06-16-2011, 01:26 AM
Based on resume and quality of wins I am confident I could compile a list of 30 fighters who should rank higher all time than Jones, so my answer is a resounding no.

Scott9945
06-16-2011, 02:05 AM
Roy has one of the great resumes in modern boxing right there with Duran, Leonard, Ali and Chavez

A+ wins :

Dominated prime hall of famers james Toney and Bernard Hopkins

B+ wins:

Dominated Montell Griffin 1, Eric Harding, John Ruiz, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Virgil Hill, Mike McCullum, Merqui Sosa.

Did not have one legit loss in his prime

B+ wins over Gonzalez and Sosa? A+ over a weght drained Toney? That is pretty damn generous.

Barnburner
06-16-2011, 03:04 AM
Wholey disagree.

I have him Top 50.

H2H doesn't count for much on my lists though.

IronDanHamza
06-16-2011, 06:46 AM
Around the Top 40 for me.

Mr.Easy
06-16-2011, 07:54 AM
Roy Jones Jr. is definately in the top 30 all-time. He won the title in quite a few divisions and at his prime he always put on a great show, Just watch Roy's knockout dvd.

Where Roy has tainted his legacy is by continuing to fight well past his prime in which his style based primarily on speed that is no longer there similar to what happened to Sugar Ray Leonard at the end of his career. Foreman and Hopkins pack good power and depend on more timing than speed to be successful into the twilight of their careers.:boxing:

New England
06-16-2011, 08:00 AM
Based on resume and quality of wins I am confident I could compile a list of 30 fighters who should rank higher all time than Jones, so my answer is a resounding no.



you sir are asking the right questing and going about this in the right way



30 men have done more

at least 30



edit: i thought i was in nsb for some reason.... the bruins won the cup last night, so i'm not the clearest right now.


it think everybody here agrees that jones really isn't in the top 30 in terms of his accomplishments
to win his "world title" at h - dub he beat john ruiz..


he's certainly in the top 30 in terms of talent, though

cja07007
06-16-2011, 08:17 AM
You may be able to claim 30 men have done more but I cant think of 30 that were on the same level of ability as Roy. Watching a prime Roy fight is something that amazes me every time I watch it. When I just think of the best fighters Ive ever seen as in terms of what they can do in the ring in on a given night Jones has got to be top 5 at least for me.

SCtrojansbaby
06-16-2011, 08:37 AM
His resume is not in par with the fighters you named.

Hopkins was not prime.

Jones was legitimately losing to Montell Griffin when he was DQ'd.

LMAO you are a joke go watch the fight Griffin wouldn't have made it out of the 9th round

Also B-Hop was 28 and went undefeated for the next 13 years LOL if that isn't prime then what the hell is?

JAB5239
06-16-2011, 08:41 AM
You may be able to claim 30 men have done more but I cant think of 30 that were on the same level of ability as Roy. Watching a prime Roy fight is something that amazes me every time I watch it. When I just think of the best fighters Ive ever seen as in terms of what they can do in the ring in on a given night Jones has got to be top 5 at least for me.

That is why we look at quality of opposition. Jones was a wonderful fighter and as gifted as anybody I've ever seen.But I doubt he looks nearly as dominant against Micheal Spinks competition as he did against his own. And that he didn't fight that type of competition is why he cannot be rated so highly.

JAB5239
06-16-2011, 08:57 AM
LMAO you are a joke go watch the fight Griffin wouldn't have made it out of the 9th round

Also B-Hop was 28 and went undefeated for the next 13 years LOL if that isn't prime then what the hell is?

Lol, Im a joke? Im not the one in the red who makes regular claims he can't back up. The facts are the Jones was coming on at the time of the DQ, but had been out fought and out landed for the vast majority of the fight. By the way, Im still waiting on that proof of Whitaker ducking Quartey and Tito. I noticed you ran away when it came to providing actual evidence.

And Hopkins probably hit his prime about the time of the Jackson and Johnson fights. Certainly it wasn't in his 24th fight with hardly an amateur career to speak of. Get a clue son, get a clue.

The_Demon
06-16-2011, 09:09 AM
Disagree,he's top 50

IMDAZED
06-16-2011, 09:22 AM
I've never made a list that long so I'll defer to those who do. But to me, he's the best fighter I've ever seen in my lifetime. I'd say Top 30 works just fine but again, I might feel different after creating a list.

SCtrojansbaby
06-16-2011, 09:27 AM
Lol, Im a joke? Im not the one in the red who makes regular claims he can't back up. The facts are the Jones was coming on at the time of the DQ, but had been out fought and out landed for the vast majority of the fight. By the way, Im still waiting on that proof of Whitaker ducking Quartey and Tito. I noticed you ran away when it came to providing actual evidence.

And Hopkins probably hit his prime about the time of the Jackson and Johnson fights. Certainly it wasn't in his 24th fight with hardly an amateur career to speak of. Get a clue son, get a clue.

Yes you're a joke the fight at best was a draw and as I said Griffin wouldn't have made it out of the 9th.

LOL as I said before you don't want proof. Even if Pernell Whitaker came to your house and told you himself you wouldn't care you are one of those people who believes only what supports their opinion/agenda

If 28 years old with 23 fights isn't prime then what the hell is? Why was B-Hop fighting for a title against Roy if he wasn't in his prime?

Oh and except for Tyson, Roy Jones quality of competition is greater then Michael Spinks and its not even really close

IMDAZED
06-16-2011, 09:36 AM
Yes you're a joke the fight at best was a draw and as I said Griffin wouldn't have made it out of the 9th.

LOL as I said before you don't want proof. Even if Pernell Whitaker came to your house and told you himself you wouldn't care you are one of those people who believes only what supports their opinion/agenda

If 28 years old with 23 fights isn't prime then what the hell is? Why was B-Hop fighting for a title against Roy if he wasn't in his prime?

Oh and except for Tyson, Roy Jones quality of competition is greater then Michael Spinks and its not even really close

Hopkins was actually the #1 contender for the vacant IBF crown, Roy was #2. I think it's unfair to say Hopkins was in his prime but anyone who watched Jones could tell he wasn't in his prime either. Hopkins was at his peak around 1997-2000...and so was Roy. I believe the result would've been the same (probably even wider in Jones' favor). That said, I give full credit to Roy - I don't view either as being in their prime and no one was able to accomplish what Jones did (beating Hops) for at least 12 years (maybe more or never).

JAB5239
06-16-2011, 09:38 AM
Yes you're a joke the fight at best was a draw and as I said Griffin wouldn't have made it out of the 9th.

He wouldn't have made it out of the 9th is an ASSumption. That Jones legitimately lost is a FACT. Guess who the joke is on? :lol1:

LOL as I said before you don't want proof. Even if Pernell Whitaker came to your house and told you himself you wouldn't care you are one of those people who believes only what supports their opinion/agenda

People who have agenda's are the one's who refuse to show proof. I want to see it. Give me some proof and I'll give you 4 billion points. I know you won't do it because you CAN'T do it.

If 28 years old with 23 fights isn't prime then what the hell is? Why was B-Hop fighting for a title against Roy if he wasn't in his prime?

23 fights with hardly any amateur career to speak of is called inexperienced, not prime. And the fact that he was fighting for the IBF paper title just shows how weak the division was.

JAB5239
06-16-2011, 10:00 AM
Oh and except for Tyson, Roy Jones quality of competition is greater then Michael Spinks and its not even really close

Thank you for proving to everybody that beyond a shaddow of a doubt, you have no clue what you're talking about! :rofl:

IronDanHamza
06-16-2011, 10:23 AM
Thank you for proving to everybody that beyond a shaddow of a doubt, you have no clue what you're talking about! :rofl:

What does his post mean?

I don't understand what he's trying to say.

JAB5239
06-16-2011, 11:39 AM
What does his post mean?

I don't understand what he's trying to say.

He is saying Jones fought an overall better array of fighters than Spinks. Of course he will never back this up, just like he doesn't back anything else up, because he can't.

Vadrigar.
06-16-2011, 11:58 AM
Huh, was a post just deleted?

JAB5239
06-16-2011, 12:08 PM
WTH? Why delete my post?

Seems like a bait post. I'll give you a chance to give an explanation and name 100 better fighters though. GO!

$Natedatpkid$
06-16-2011, 12:19 PM
Top 20 maybe even top 10 TALENT wise kinda like Floyd. But top 40-50 resume wise.

Travdog
06-16-2011, 12:20 PM
Roy is in my top five

JAB5239
06-16-2011, 12:21 PM
Roy is in my top five

All time? Why? How?

-JUGGERNAUT-
06-16-2011, 12:27 PM
"Roy Jones barely makes my Top 100 ATG List. He is one of the most overrated fighters of All-Time".

He may not agree but that is my opinion and I have a right to it. Even Bert Sugar, a notable historian rates Roy Jones in a similar position as I.

JAB5239
06-16-2011, 12:30 PM
"Roy Jones barely makes my Top 100 ATG List. He is one of the most overrated fighters of All-Time".

He may not agree but that is my opinion and I have a right to it. Even Bert Sugar, a notable historian rates Roy Jones in a similar position as I.

Make your case than and stop whining. Name me the 90+ fighters who are better than Roy.

Forza
06-16-2011, 12:57 PM
Hardly top 50 and that is pushing it

IIIX JACK XIII
06-16-2011, 01:26 PM
I always say rate fighters on what they did NOT what they coulda, shoulda, woulda done, therefore there is no way in hell roy is top 30.im surprised how many people voted yes. tbh i dont care how good he looked against tomato cans, but overall he has a great resume but not top 30 ATG resume.

JAB5239
06-16-2011, 01:28 PM
I always say rate fighters on what they did NOT what they coulda, shoulda, woulda done, therefore there is no way in hell roy is top 30.im surprised how many people voted yes. tbh i dont care how good he looked against tomato cans, but overall he has a great resume but not top 30 ATG resume.

This is how I also look at it.

The Surgeon
06-16-2011, 04:25 PM
Roy Jones had near Super Natural Gifts in the ring, that speed was Truely blinding - he was the best fighter ive ever seen in my lifetime! Based on ability he sails into the top 30 ATG's, i mean i cannot in all honesty say there are 30 fighters who'd handle a Prime Roy Jones Jnr.

But like its been mentioned we cant rank fighters this way and in all of history id struggle to find a top 30 spot for him, mabey tho at the bottom end - he had a very good resume and his record shows how talented he was. But i think a top 40 spot is easier to claim

Terry A
06-16-2011, 05:07 PM
Roy Jones had near Super Natural Gifts in the ring, that speed was Truely blinding - he was the best fighter ive ever seen in my lifetime! Based on ability he sails into the top 30 ATG's, i mean i cannot in all honesty say there are 30 fighters who'd handle a Prime Roy Jones Jnr.

But like its been mentioned we cant rank fighters this way and in all of history id struggle to find a top 30 spot for him, mabey tho at the bottom end - he had a very good resume and his record shows how talented he was. But i think a top 40 spot is easier to claim

You bring up a good point Surgeon.

Most everybody will have men like Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, Benny leonard, etc in their top 10. After that, with so many great fighters to choose from, it starts to differ and get murkier as the list fills up. Why? I think it's because we all have certain criteria that we judge fighters on. What I may like in a fighter, someone else may prefer another trait in a fighter.

For example, I've always had an infatuation with heavy hitters. The harder they hit, the more I liked them. Someone else may prefer a more conventional style of boxer-puncher, while others may like classic boxers.

And I think that at some point, our own personal preferences in fighters will come out as we rate or rank who's who. I feel good about Roy Jones being in my top 30. Someone else may have him in their top 20. Still others may not have him in their top 50. It's all speculative anyway.

Most of the guys who post in the History section know boxing. Not everybody, but most of us do. And since we'll all have different lists of top whatever number of fighters, it goes to prove one thing.

Great minds do NOT always think alike! :D

BattlingNelson
06-16-2011, 05:18 PM
you sir are asking the right questing and going about this in the right way



30 men have done more

at least 30



edit: i thought i was in nsb for some reason.... the bruins won the cup last night, so i'm not the clearest right now.


it think everybody here agrees that jones really isn't in the top 30 in terms of his accomplishments
to win his "world title" at h - dub he beat john ruiz..


he's certainly in the top 30 in terms of talent, though
^^^^This I agree on. Talent-wise Jones is likely top 10, but the names missing from his record pulls him down. It shouldn't be that big a problem finding 30 guys with a better resumé. Not that I could be arsed though. :lol1:

IronDanHamza
06-16-2011, 05:31 PM
Anything lower than the Top 50 I can't agree with for Roy.

Roy was an excpetional talent and he did fight a whole heap of Top competition across 4 weight classes, which in itself is phenominal.

Include names like Toney and Hopkins who are both exceptional fighters in their own right to that.

TerryA makes a very good point that when you get past 20, you start ranking fighters on preferance at times. Which is why none of us will EVER have the same list.

For example, I will never have a list with Ali infront of Louis, personally. I do feel Louis is greater than Ali but considering I love Joe Louis and despise Muhammad Ali that might have something to do with the fact I believe Louis is greater. You know?

Anyway, Roy, for me, isn't a Top 30 ATG. I would have him somewhere in the Top 40, personally.

jjbj2
06-16-2011, 05:42 PM
Top 70 since we are talking All Time Great and boxers of other weight classes are accepted.

SCtrojansbaby
06-16-2011, 07:54 PM
He is saying Jones fought an overall better array of fighters than Spinks. Of course he will never back this up, just like he doesn't back anything else up, because he can't.

LOL you can't be serious thinking Spinks fought better competition then Roy.

Its not even fair to compare them Roy had twice as many fights obviously he is going to have fought WAY better competition.

Steak
06-16-2011, 08:35 PM
LOL you can't be serious thinking Spinks fought better competition then Roy.

Its not even fair to compare them Roy had twice as many fights obviously he is going to have fought WAY better competition.
Larry Holmes was better than anyone Roy fought.
and Dwight Qawi was better than any LHW Roy fought.

Im not necessarily saying that Spinks>Roy p4p, but come on.

BigStereotype
06-16-2011, 08:36 PM
Hard to say one of the 30 greatest, but easily one of the 30 best.

cja07007
06-16-2011, 08:51 PM
Im not sure if I should make a new thread on this but I would love to hear who you guys put over jones in regards to Talent and Athleticism.


Ill give a few of my own that I think may rival him.

Whitaker
Hammed
Mayweather
SSR(based on what Ive heard from early years)
SSL

I'm really pushing it here, I just thing roy was so supreamly gifted but I would love to here some more peoples opinions on it.

BigStereotype
06-16-2011, 08:54 PM
Ali, Robinson, maybe Leonard, maybe Whitaker and those last two are pushing it.

IMDAZED
06-16-2011, 09:22 PM
Im not sure if I should make a new thread on this but I would love to hear who you guys put over jones in regards to Talent and Athleticism.


Ill give a few of my own that I think may rival him.

Whitaker
Hammed
Mayweather
SSR(based on what Ive heard from early years)
SSL

I'm really pushing it here, I just thing roy was so supreamly gifted but I would love to here some more peoples opinions on it.

In terms of talent, I think there are very few that rival him. Hamed? Not a chance in hell. Not sure Pea does either. Talent-wise, his combination of power, hand speed, foot speed and reflexes was absolutely sickening. It's one of the reasons why, regardless of where you place him, he underachieved. It's almost a curse for him because he is often judged on what he did not do when what he did was extremely impressive. At 160, he was the first and perhaps only fighter to decisively beat a fighter who would soon go on to be one of the greatest middleweights ever. At 168, he shutout an undefeated champ, a prime future Hall of Famer and one of the true talents of our era. The names at 175 aren't as impressive in retrospect but he damn near wiped out the division, making 11 defenses and holding the undisputed crown forever.

Jones got caught in no-man's land at 175. The lucrative fights were either above or below him. When the Trinidad fight failed to materialize and he couldn't come to terms with Hopkins, he went way north and whitewashed a top five heavyweight who remained so many years later. All the while losing a handful of rounds. On his best day he probably beats anyone and everyone under heavyweight and a bunch of the big guys too.

crold1
06-16-2011, 09:39 PM
In terms of talent, I think there are very few that rival him. Hamed? Not a chance in hell. Not sure Pea does either. Talent-wise, his combination of power, hand speed, foot speed and reflexes was absolutely sickening. It's one of the reasons why, regardless of where you place him, he underachieved. It's almost a curse for him because he is often judged on what he did not do when what he did was extremely impressive. At 160, he was the first and perhaps only fighter to decisively beat a fighter who would soon go on to be one of the greatest middleweights ever. At 168, he shutout an undefeated champ, a prime future Hall of Famer and one of the true talents of our era. The names at 175 aren't as impressive in retrospect but he damn near wiped out the division, making 11 defenses and holding the undisputed crown forever.

Jones got caught in no-man's land at 175. The lucrative fights were either above or below him. When the Trinidad fight failed to materialize and he couldn't come to terms with Hopkins, he went way north and whitewashed a top five heavyweight who remained so many years later. All the while losing a handful of rounds. On his best day he probably beats anyone and everyone under heavyweight and a bunch of the big guys too.

68 is where he fell short. The talent was THICK there. Lots of reasons (for and against) for some of the misses there, but at the end it's still just too many for a guy his stature. At 75, he missed one and beat plenty of good fighters. 60...he was outgrowing it before he even had a belt and came to form just as a GREAT, underrated era at 60 was ending. 68 and 75 were where he was truly defined.


23 fights with hardly any amateur career to speak of is called inexperienced, not prime. And the fact that he was fighting for the IBF paper title just shows how weak the division was.

Gotta disagree there. It shows how wrong sanc bodies can be as, on merit, Hopkins was no #1 yet. Ring had him barely top ten and were right. Middleweight was still solid then (92-93) with Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan, Reggie Johnson, and John David Jackson all still big factors.

IMDAZED
06-16-2011, 10:38 PM
68 is where he fell short. The talent was THICK there. Lots of reasons (for and against) for some of the misses there, but at the end it's still just too many for a guy his stature. At 75, he missed one and beat plenty of good fighters. 60...he was outgrowing it before he even had a belt and came to form just as a GREAT, underrated era at 60 was ending. 68 and 75 were where he was truly defined.
He's defined by his entire resume, including 160, where he beat Hopkins and flattened a legitimate contender in Tate. I agree the talent was thick at super middle and he kicked things off by embarrassing the guy far and away considered the best talent in it. And also decapitated a guy by the name of Malinga who went balls to the wall with Eubank and took one of two from Benn.

crold1
06-16-2011, 10:47 PM
He's defined by his entire resume, including 160, where he beat Hopkins and flattened a legitimate contender in Tate. I agree the talent was thick at super middle and he kicked things off by embarrassing the guy far and away considered the best talent in it. And also decapitated a guy by the name of Malinga who went balls to the wall with Eubank and took one of two from Benn.

Sure. My point was that its hard to argue he missed much at 60 anyways considering the timing. Malinga is an underrated win. He still could have done much more at 68. That he didn't is one reason I'd agree with you his career can be seen as underachieving (if being one of the top 50 fighters of all time can be considered such a thing).

Travdog
06-16-2011, 11:19 PM
Roy is in my top five

15 Years of dominance, skills that have never been seen before or since.

MRBOOMER
06-17-2011, 12:54 AM
B+ wins over Gonzalez and Sosa? A+ over a weght drained Toney? That is pretty damn generous.

That weight drained crap is bull if he couldnt do it he shoulda said no.

And Sosa was his first light heavy weight fight how's that not a good b plus win? He took some bombs in that fight and came back and knocked him out in round two.

SCtrojansbaby
06-17-2011, 01:04 AM
Im not sure if I should make a new thread on this but I would love to hear who you guys put over jones in regards to Talent and Athleticism.


Ill give a few of my own that I think may rival him.

Whitaker
Hammed
Mayweather
SSR(based on what Ive heard from early years)
SSL

I'm really pushing it here, I just thing roy was so supreamly gifted but I would love to here some more peoples opinions on it.



Whitaker (No Power)
Hammed (Lacked ring IQ)
Mayweather (No Killer Instinct)
SSL (didn't have quit the power or quite the defense of Roy)

Vadrigar.
06-17-2011, 02:59 AM
Why has nobody mentioned his win over Antonio Tarver?

House of Stone
06-17-2011, 05:08 AM
The problem with jones is skill wise he easily top ten (just look at that display v Toney) but achievement wise he's not. All in all I'd have him squeezing into the top 30 ATG I mean middle/supermiddle/lightheavy/heavyweight champ is impressive(though that was only a version of the heavyweight title and not the linear one). But wins v top european guys like Collins/Eubank/Benn/Michalczewski/Calzaghe(when jones was prime) to completely dominate the weights are glaringly absent, he would have beaten them all but bottom line is he didn't (imagine if those names were on his resume instead of a bunch of contenders that nobody remembers - the guy really would be a legend)... there should have been a hopkins rematch - a superfight when hopkins was a prime long reigning middleweight champ that would have been massive ... But I think the Michalczewski one is most telling ... clearly the number two lightheavy for years during jones's era of dominance and yet jones never got it on with him to prove he really was top dog. That 'he won't come out of Germany' crap is weak he should have gone into the guys backyard and wooped him good (I bet he regrets not doing so) Maybe I'm asking a bit much of him and maybe the other guys didn't bend over backwards to make the fights but when your talking about a guy wanting to be called an ATG it is right to ask a lot of them.

lazy
06-17-2011, 05:09 AM
There is alot of greats, not enough room for all the deserve it! I have 50 in my top 30 alone!

SCtrojansbaby
06-17-2011, 05:23 AM
The problem with jones is skill wise he could even be top ten (just look at that display v Toney) but achievement wise he's not. All in all I'd have him squeezing into the top 30 ATG I mean middle/supermiddle/lightheavy/heavyweight champ is impressive(though that was only a version of the heavyweight title and not the linear one). But wins v top european guys like Collins/Eubank/Benn/Michalczewski/Calzaghe(when jones was prime) to completely dominate the weights are glaringly absent, he would have beaten them all but bottom line is he didn't (imagine if those names were on his resume instead of a bunch of contenders that nobody remembers - the guy really would be a legend)... there should have been a hopkins rematch - a superfight when hopkins was a prime long reigning middleweight champ that would have been massive ... But I think the Michalczewski one is most telling ... clearly the number two lightheavy for years during jones's era of dominance and yet jones never got it on with him to prove he really was top dog. That 'he won't come out of Germany' crap is weak he should have gone into the guys backyard and wooped him good (I bet he regrets not doing so) Maybe I'm asking a bit much of him and maybe the other guys didn't bend over backwards to make the fights but when your talking about a guy wanting to be called an ATG it is right to ask a lot of them.


I am the biggest Hopkins fan but her priced himself out of a rematch with Roy everybody knows that.

Oh and the Europe vs Roy fights were never going to happen. All those guys were making tons of $$$ in their respective markets and Roy was making tons in the US there was no incentive for them to fight each other.

I also think its funny that people on one hand cry about Roy not fighting Dariusz yet you people don't give Roy any credit for shutting out Julio Cesar Gonzalez the first man to beat Dariusz

JAB5239
06-17-2011, 05:38 AM
LOL you can't be serious thinking Spinks fought better competition then Roy.

Its not even fair to compare them Roy had twice as many fights obviously he is going to have fought WAY better competition.

My man, you gotta do some serious homework on Spinks. Mustafa Muhammad, Lopez, Marvin Johnson and Qawi are all better than ANYONE Jones beat at 175. Holmes is 10x better than Ruiz was.

The_Demon
06-17-2011, 05:39 AM
Roy is in my top five

You are welcome too your opinion,but i really was'nt surprised too see you in the red

JAB5239
06-17-2011, 05:40 AM
Gotta disagree there. It shows how wrong sanc bodies can be as, on merit, Hopkins was no #1 yet. Ring had him barely top ten and were right. Middleweight was still solid then (92-93) with Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan, Reggie Johnson, and John David Jackson all still big factors.

I have to concede the division, you're right. But I certainly don't think Hop was prime for the first Jones fight. :fing02:

SCtrojansbaby
06-17-2011, 05:59 AM
My man, you gotta do some serious homework on Spinks. Mustafa Muhammad, Lopez, Marvin Johnson and Qawi are all better than ANYONE Jones beat at 175. Holmes is 10x better than Ruiz was.

Qawi, Muhammad, Marvin Johnson and Yaqui Lopez are not any better then Montel Griffin, Mike McCullum, Antonio Tarver and Virgil Hill not to mention those Hall Famers Roy beat I think there names are Bernard Hopkins and James Toney

LOL I am done with you.

JAB5239
06-17-2011, 06:10 AM
Qawi, Muhammad, Marvin Johnson and Yaqui Lopez are not any better then Montel Griffin, Mike McCullum, Antonio Tarver and Virgil Hill not to mention those Hall Famers Roy beat I think there names are Bernard Hopkins and James Toney

LOL I am done with you.

40 yer old McCallum? Griffin? Tarver who put Roy to sleep and had him fighting scared? A green Hopkins? A weight drained Toney? :lol1:

Do your homework son. Spinks was the dominant force in a very tough light heavyweight era. Jones era at 175 was borderline dismal.

Yeah, you're done alright!

SCtrojansbaby
06-17-2011, 06:32 AM
40 yer old McCallum? Griffin? Tarver who put Roy to sleep and had him fighting scared? A green Hopkins? A weight drained Toney? :lol1:

Do your homework son. Spinks was the dominant force in a very tough light heavyweight era. Jones era at 175 was borderline dismal.

Yeah, you're done alright!

LOL yeah excuse excuse excuse, as I said you'll believe what you want

JAB5239
06-17-2011, 06:37 AM
LOL yeah excuse excuse excuse, as I said you'll believe what you want

These aren't excuses, they're facts. I can't help it if you don't know your history and want to keep wearing those rose tinted glasses. :dunno:

SCtrojansbaby
06-17-2011, 07:26 AM
These aren't excuses, they're facts. I can't help it if you don't know your history and want to keep wearing those rose tinted glasses. :dunno:

LOL you call Hopkins green yet bring up Qawi you're a joke.

Yeah Roy Jones Jr is the worst boxer to ever step in a ring that is what you want to hear right? Stop pretending to boxing fan.

Oh and by the way you're the guy who talks about proof so where is it?

IMDAZED
06-17-2011, 07:37 AM
I have to concede the division, you're right. But I certainly don't think Hop was prime for the first Jones fight. :fing02:

I think that's fair but Jones wasn't in his prime either. And truthfully, Hopkins is a fighter who is pretty damn good in or out of his prime (see: Hopkins today). Both of them progressed immensely following their first bout and I think it's because both of them gained a lot of fighting each other. Specifically, how not to be so tight in a big fight. Beating Hopkins at any stage of his career is quite an accomplishment. Beating him that decisively even moreso.

IMDAZED
06-17-2011, 07:39 AM
Sure. My point was that its hard to argue he missed much at 60 anyways considering the timing. Malinga is an underrated win. He still could have done much more at 68. That he didn't is one reason I'd agree with you his career can be seen as underachieving (if being one of the top 50 fighters of all time can be considered such a thing).

Yep, I agree completely.

JAB5239
06-17-2011, 07:42 AM
LOL you call Hopkins green yet bring up Qawi you're a joke.

Yeah Roy Jones Jr is the worst boxer to ever step in a ring that is what you want to hear right? Stop pretending to boxing fan.

Oh and by the way you're the guy who talks about proof so where is it?

Like I said, you really need to do some research. Qawi was in his 5th title defense when he fought Spinks and had already beaten Saad Muhammad twice, James Scott, Eddie Davis and Mike Rossman. Now who had Hopkins fought at the time of the first Jones fight that we could even consider comparable?

Jones was a great fighter, but he fought a lot of weak comp.

You want proof?

http://www.ibroresearch.com/?p=56

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/callis-rankings.htm

Im sure I can find plenty more showing Spinks ranked higher if you really need me to. Unlike you, I can back up what Im talking about.

IMDAZED
06-17-2011, 07:45 AM
Like I said, you really need to do some research. Qawi was in his 5th title defense when he fought Spinks and had already beaten Saad Muhammad twice, James Scott, Eddie Davis and Mike Rossman. Now who had Hopkins fought at the time of the first Jones fight that we could even consider comparable?

Jones was a great fighter, but he fought a lot of weak comp.

You want proof?

http://www.ibroresearch.com/?p=56

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/callis-rankings.htm

Im sure I can find plenty more showing Spinks ranked higher if you really need me to. Unlike you, I can back up what Im talking about.

Everyone fights a lot of "weak comp", it's who you beat that matters, no?

JAB5239
06-17-2011, 07:48 AM
I think that's fair but Jones wasn't in his prime either. And truthfully, Hopkins is a fighter who is pretty damn good in or out of his prime (see: Hopkins today). Both of them progressed immensely following their first bout and I think it's because both of them gained a lot of fighting each other. Specifically, how not to be so tight in a big fight. Beating Hopkins at any stage of his career is quite an accomplishment. Beating him that decisively even moreso.

I wouldn't really consider Jones prime either. But his amateur background and Olympic pedigree gave him a ton more experience as a fighter. Its a good win, but Hop certainly wasn't the fighter he would go on to become. It just gets me when people try to use him as an all time great when at the time he clearly wasn't.

JAB5239
06-17-2011, 07:49 AM
Everyone fights a lot of "weak comp", it's who you beat that matters, no?

I agree. But at 175 Spinks beat the better fighters. What is your opinion on the my friend?

IMDAZED
06-17-2011, 07:55 AM
I wouldn't really consider Jones prime either. But his amateur background and Olympic pedigree gave him a ton more experience as a fighter. Its a good win, but Hop certainly wasn't the fighter he would go on to become. It just gets me when people try to use him as an all time great when at the time he clearly wasn't.

Agreed, it made gave him more pedigree. But in the professionals, you aren't judged on the pedigree of your amateur career. You're judged by what you do as a pro and Jones beat Hopkins for the vacant IBF middleweight title. The win is a lot more solid then say...Salvador Sanchez beating an Azumah Nelson who had only 13 fights and eight days notice. Yet, Nelson is considered one of Sanchez' great wins. Or on a lower level, Hopkins himself beating up a 34-0 Glen Johnson. Countless examples. Do I think Hopkins was in his prime? No and neither was Jones. So there wasn't some advantage there. Both of them needed that fight to go out and kick everyone else's ass. But it's not a coincidence no one has ever been able to duplicate Jones' feat. It's a great win.

IMDAZED
06-17-2011, 07:56 AM
I agree. But at 175 Spinks beat the better fighters. What is your opinion on the my friend?

I agree lol. At 175, Spinks did beat the better contenders and, head to head, I suspect Spinks is one of the fighters that could've beaten Jones. Doesn't necessarily mean I rank him higher though but yea you're right.

IronDanHamza
06-17-2011, 08:02 AM
Of course Micheal Spinks is greater and beat better fighters at 175 as opposed to Roy Jones and I would probably lean on him to beat Jones at 175 but Jones is the greater of the two, IMO.

House of Stone
06-17-2011, 09:27 AM
lol a few heated opinions here but really anybody that argues that jones could not have done more with his imense talent is simply biased - there are just a few too many top names that should be on his resume but aren't. Ye can respond by saying crap like "you can say that about any fighter" but thats just blowing smoke ATGs are not just "any" fighters.

Scott9945
06-17-2011, 12:59 PM
That weight drained crap is bull if he couldnt do it he shoulda said no.

And Sosa was his first light heavy weight fight how's that not a good b plus win? He took some bombs in that fight and came back and knocked him out in round two.


Everyone knew that Toney was weight drained for the Jones fight. And if you say no, you don't get paid.

Sosa was a good ESPN level fighter. He simply wasn't in the same class as Roy Jones and not a top lightheavyweight.

SCtrojansbaby
06-17-2011, 04:51 PM
Everyone knew that Toney was weight drained for the Jones fight. And if you say no, you don't get paid.

Sosa was a good ESPN level fighter. He simply wasn't in the same class as Roy Jones and not a top lightheavyweight.


Weight drained my azz Roy moved up in weight to fight him not the other way around. Toney had been cutting a ton of weight for years he was fine Roy just made him look bad like he did everybody else

Oh and Sosa was a top light heavy he was coming off two wins against Prince Charles Williams at 175, he gave James Toney hell at 160, and he beat Glen Johnson at 168.

LOL you people come up with the widest excuses just so you won't have to admit that Roy is one of the top 5 in modern boxing(1970-present)

Forza
06-17-2011, 04:54 PM
Toney didn't look weight drained to me. In fact he looked great. RJJ's win over toney was one of the only things that make him not a complete fraud.

btw LHW is a terrible division

PRINCE O' PROSE
06-18-2011, 07:57 AM
Weight drained my azz Roy moved up in weight to fight him not the other way around.
:S This made no sense. Weight draining is a consequence of cutting weight, not putting weight on.



That said, I agree that the "weight drained Toney" line is overplayed.

fitefanSHO
06-18-2011, 09:43 AM
Top 30 ATG? No way.

Top 30 most overrated of all time? Easily.

Jones has been exposed and his legacy tarnished.

Toney616
06-18-2011, 09:47 AM
In order for him to be top 30, then he needed to clean out mw, smw and lhw, and prove beyond a doubt that he was the top fighter in those divisions. He didnt do that. So for me he has to be outside top 30. Maybe around top 50-60

crold1
06-18-2011, 11:34 AM
Weight drained my azz Roy moved up in weight to fight him not the other way around. Toney had been cutting a ton of weight for years he was fine Roy just made him look bad like he did everybody else

Oh and Sosa was a top light heavy he was coming off two wins against Prince Charles Williams at 175, he gave James Toney hell at 160, and he beat Glen Johnson at 168.

LOL you people come up with the widest excuses just so you won't have to admit that Roy is one of the top 5 in modern boxing(1970-present)

There is some truth in this. Toney's weight issues were always there. However, there are some versions of Toney who were just abysmal in terms of conditioning and punch output; think Tiberi, Thadzi. That Toney was not a world class fighter, at all. Considering how lacking in effort he was versus Jones, it's fair to wonder whether Jones was in with his very worst.

Not Jones's fault either way, but its a reasonable ask.

The Surgeon
06-18-2011, 11:41 AM
Great minds do NOT always think alike! :D

Lol very True Terry!

Ive been thinking about Roy's place today and ive decided that for me he is top 30 ATG too

Guy was Brilliant and his sheer domination should count for something

SCtrojansbaby
06-18-2011, 08:16 PM
There is some truth in this. Toney's weight issues were always there. However, there are some versions of Toney who were just abysmal in terms of conditioning and punch output; think Tiberi, Thadzi. That Toney was not a world class fighter, at all. Considering how lacking in effort he was versus Jones, it's fair to wonder whether Jones was in with his very worst.

Not Jones's fault either way, but its a reasonable ask.


LOL Roy made every body look like that. Its just stupid to think James Toney would come out of shape to the biggest fight of his life with consensus #1 pound for pound status at stake

Roy made everybody look bad.

Ziggy Stardust
06-18-2011, 08:43 PM
Roy made everybody look bad.

And you're making Roy Jones fans look bad :rolleyes9:

Poet

crold1
06-18-2011, 09:13 PM
LOL Roy made every body look like that. Its just stupid to think James Toney would come out of shape to the biggest fight of his life with consensus #1 pound for pound status at stake

Roy made everybody look bad.

Why is it stupid? Reports before the Jones fight had him cutting massive weight having blown up to around 200 after Williams (and there was a short window between) and he came into the ring over 180 implying massive gain overnight. It's all openly discussed on the Jones-Toney telecast as well. Toney showed up out of shape for lots of big fights. At Heavyweight, his condition varied wildly. It's part of who he was as a fighter.

Scott9945
06-18-2011, 09:31 PM
LOL Roy made every body look like that. Its just stupid to think James Toney would come out of shape to the biggest fight of his life with consensus #1 pound for pound status at stake

Roy made everybody look bad.

Toney didn't come to that fight undertrained. He just had to cut too much weight. What about this don't you seem to understand?

SCtrojansbaby
06-19-2011, 03:46 AM
Toney didn't come to that fight undertrained. He just had to cut too much weight. What about this don't you seem to understand?


Yeah and I am saying Toney always cut tons of weight only difference is Roy made him look bad.

JAB5239
06-19-2011, 05:47 AM
Yeah and I am saying Toney always cut tons of weight only difference is Roy made him look bad.

Cutting weight and struggling to make weight are two different things. If you had noticed, only 4 out of Toney's 9 fights at 168 were within the limit. THAT is struggling to make weight!

Barnburner
06-19-2011, 06:36 AM
5 pages of repeating the same stuff to someone who doesn't grasp the simple.

EMACULATE
06-19-2011, 06:45 AM
Based on resume and quality of wins I am confident I could compile a list of 30 fighters who should rank higher all time than Jones, so my answer is a resounding no.
Roy at his peak was a monster but to me the difference that keeps him out of my TOP 30 is the ability not to adapt when he lots his natural quickness. His ability to not be able to take a flush punch from Tarver and Johnson. If he wouldve worked on his Jab abd defense with his natural gifts he couldve remained near the top as Hopkins has, but he was so gifted he let the Jab and defense slip which led to what we are seeing now.

Before FLOYD ROY was my favorite fighter very entertaining and always came in great shape.

House of Stone
06-19-2011, 07:08 AM
Roy at his peak was a monster but to me the difference that keeps him out of my TOP 30 is the ability not to adapt when he lots his natural quickness. His ability to not be able to take a flush punch from Tarver and Johnson. If he wouldve worked on his Jab abd defense with his natural gifts he couldve remained near the top as Hopkins has, but he was so gifted he let the Jab and defense slip which led to what we are seeing now.

Before FLOYD ROY was my favorite fighter very entertaining and always came in great shape.

true roy worked off immese natural talent .. speed and reflexes and in his prime v the competition he was facing never had to work overly hard on the fundamentals ... how often did he throw the jab? Compare that to somebody like hopkins who had the fundamentals down to 't' Thus when they got a bit older and the speed and reactions slowed roy was no longer able to rely on his gifts to get him out of trouble and ended up getting dumped on his ass again and again whereas Hopkins still kept on winning. Roy could no longer land these miraclous almost impossible shots almost at will and without having worked so much on the basic fundamentals he was screwed.

SCtrojansbaby
06-19-2011, 07:03 PM
Cutting weight and struggling to make weight are two different things. If you had noticed, only 4 out of Toney's 9 fights at 168 were within the limit. THAT is struggling to make weight!

Toney was always struggling to make weight Roy just made him look bad

SCtrojansbaby
06-19-2011, 07:15 PM
true roy worked off immese natural talent .. speed and reflexes and in his prime v the competition he was facing never had to work overly hard on the fundamentals ... how often did he throw the jab? Compare that to somebody like hopkins who had the fundamentals down to 't' Thus when they got a bit older and the speed and reactions slowed roy was no longer able to rely on his gifts to get him out of trouble and ended up getting dumped on his ass again and again whereas Hopkins still kept on winning. Roy could no longer land these miraclous almost impossible shots almost at will and without having worked so much on the basic fundamentals he was screwed.

Got news for you fundmentals have nothing to do with it almost all great fighters begin to lose it when they are in their mid/late 30s and have 50+ pro fights.

Comparing anybody to Hopkins as far as longevity goes is stupid.

MRBOOMER
06-19-2011, 10:22 PM
[QUOTE=JAB5239;10705519]
My man, you gotta do some serious homework on Spinks. Mustafa Muhammad, Lopez, Marvin Johnson and Qawi are all better than ANYONE Jones beat at 175. Holmes is 10x better than Ruiz was.[/

The Larry holmes win for spinks don't really show anything I mean he barely beat the man and alot of people don't think he beat him I know I don't.

JAB5239
06-20-2011, 01:28 AM
Toney was always struggling to make weight Roy just made him look bad

Exactly. He made a weight drained fighter look bad. You're learning! ;)

JAB5239
06-20-2011, 01:35 AM
[QUOTE=JAB5239;10705519]
My man, you gotta do some serious homework on Spinks. Mustafa Muhammad, Lopez, Marvin Johnson and Qawi are all better than ANYONE Jones beat at 175. Holmes is 10x better than Ruiz was.[/

The Larry holmes win for spinks don't really show anything I mean he barely beat the man and alot of people don't think he beat him I know I don't.

Considering 48 others before him couldn't beat Holmes and he was the first lightheavyweight champion to move up and win the heavyweight title since (I believe) Gene Tunney almost 60 years earlier, its a very significant win in my opinion.

SCtrojansbaby
06-20-2011, 02:05 AM
Exactly. He made a weight drained fighter look bad. You're learning! ;)

Exactly the same weight drained fighter who beat McCallum, Nunn etc

JAB5239
06-20-2011, 02:17 AM
Exactly the same weight drained fighter who beat McCallum, Nunn etc

You again show your ignorance. Toney weighed in below the limit for all 3 of those fights. Im betting you can't show a shred of proof that says Toney was struggling to make weight in those fights. The Jones fight on the other hand.....well thats been covered and documented. :biggthump

SCtrojansbaby
06-20-2011, 04:51 AM
You again show your ignorance. Toney weighed in below the limit for all 3 of those fights. Im betting you can't show a shred of proof that says Toney was struggling to make weight in those fights. The Jones fight on the other hand.....well thats been covered and documented. :biggthump

LOL of course Toney was weight drained against Roy but no one else. Everybody who Roy beat was weight drained when they fought him. Roy Jones has some magical ability to make fighters weight drained he is a warlock. Roy Jones is the worst fighter of all time

IMDAZED
06-20-2011, 09:56 AM
You again show your ignorance. Toney weighed in below the limit for all 3 of those fights. Im betting you can't show a shred of proof that says Toney was struggling to make weight in those fights. The Jones fight on the other hand.....well thats been covered and documented. :biggthump

Toney always had weight issues. His whole career. The only time it was ever an excuse was when he got his ass handed to him in his prime.

JAB5239
06-20-2011, 05:33 PM
Toney always had weight issues. His whole career. The only time it was ever an excuse was when he got his ass handed to him in his prime.

The fact is that Toney was specifically struggling to make weight for the Jones fight and not the others that were pointed out. This cannot be changed. I do on the other hand think Jones would have beaten him regardless of this issue. But to pretend it didn't happen and that James was at his best is simply untrue.

IMDAZED
06-20-2011, 06:02 PM
The fact is that Toney was specifically struggling to make weight for the Jones fight and not the others that were pointed out. This cannot be changed. I do on the other hand think Jones would have beaten him regardless of this issue. But to pretend it didn't happen and that James was at his best is simply untrue.

How do you know he didn't struggle with weight for other fights? The man was struggling with weight from day one. That's why he moved up to 168 in the first place. And even then, he was taking interim fights above the LHW limit. He always struggled with weights. It was only an issue when he got his ass kicked. But either way, it's irrelevant. The win doesn't lose anything so debating the weight doesn't mean much.

$Natedatpkid$
06-20-2011, 06:16 PM
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pWIqZKhNY90" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

JAB5239
06-20-2011, 06:42 PM
How do you know he didn't struggle with weight for other fights? The man was struggling with weight from day one. That's why he moved up to 168 in the first place. And even then, he was taking interim fights above the LHW limit. He always struggled with weights. It was only an issue when he got his ass kicked. But either way, it's irrelevant. The win doesn't lose anything so debating the weight doesn't mean much.

Im talking about the specific fights with the other 3 fighters who were pointed out.

And yes,I believe it does take a little bit away from the win. Through out history fighters wins have been detracted from because their opponents weren't at their best., this fight should be no different in my opinion.

IMDAZED
06-20-2011, 08:41 PM
Im talking about the specific fights with the other 3 fighters who were pointed out.

And yes,I believe it does take a little bit away from the win. Through out history fighters wins have been detracted from because their opponents weren't at their best., this fight should be no different in my opinion.
Well I'm glad you added the opinion part. Because, for better or worse, Jones moved up a division and shut out an undefeated future HOF'er in his prime. And that my friend, is fact.

Wild Blue Yonda
06-21-2011, 02:02 AM
If he is, he'd be the only man in the top-30 who spent a third of his career fighting garbagemen, police officers, members of the fire brigade, & school teachers.

Of course not. Try top 70-80, & then, only on hypothetical matchings, not resume. Not even near to it.

House of Stone
06-21-2011, 03:29 AM
to stroj ... you should be able to have a discussion witout calling people who respectfully disagree "stupid" it's a bit like having a debate and trying to correct your opponent's grammer because you can't correct his argument ... that sort of thing may be run of the mill in NSB where spotty teenagers pick fights with eachother - but the history section here is where the real fans hang.

Anyway IMO Jones really didn't do as much as he could have with the talent he had, and thats the bottom line ... imagine the fights we would get if somebody like Cotto who is up for fighting anybody anytime had Roy's talent? If Jones wanted to confirm himself as the supreme kingpin of the modern era he COULD have done. He should have made it his business to make the top fights happen. He should have pushed himself to the limit when he was at his best so people could really see what he could do ... I wish he fought Hopkins again when both were prime wish he fought Calzaghe when both were prime etc ...he should have fought Collins and Darius etc ... would he have gotten the wins? ... sure ... did he? ... No ... and it hurts his ATG status no two ways about it.

SCtrojansbaby
06-21-2011, 04:29 AM
If he is, he'd be the only man in the top-30 who spent a third of his career fighting garbagemen, police officers, members of the fire brigade, & school teachers.

Of course not. Try top 70-80, & then, only on hypothetical matchings, not resume. Not even near to it.

LOL Roy's resume ranks right up there with Duran Ali Leonard and Chavez as the best of the past 30-40 years

Unprecedented Dominance lost maybe 30 rounds in his first 50 fights

A+ wins
Dominated HOFers in their prime Toney and Hopkins

B+ wins
Dominated top 5 contenders Sosa Griffin McCallum Gonzalez Ruiz Harding Hill etc

JAB5239
06-21-2011, 04:44 AM
LOL Roy's resume ranks right up there with Duran Ali Leonard and Chavez as the best of the past 30-40 years

Unprecedented Dominance lost maybe 30 rounds in his first 50 fights

A+ wins
Dominated HOFers in their prime Toney and Hopkins

B+ wins
Dominated top 5 contenders Sosa Griffin McCallum Gonzalez Ruiz Harding Hill etc

You're truly turning into the forum joke with posts like this. Jones resume isn't even close to the guys you mentioned and several others on top of it. AND thats only going back the last 30 or 40 years!

House of Stone
06-21-2011, 04:50 AM
LOL Roy's resume ranks right up there with Duran Ali Leonard

:bsflag: :bsflag: :bsflag:

SCtrojansbaby
06-21-2011, 05:59 AM
LOL here it is laid out for you, Roy's resume is right there with those guys.

Leonard
A+ wins Benitez Hearns Duran 2
A wins Hagler
B+ wins Kalule Lalonde

Only loss in his prime is to Duran no shame in that. Not much depth in his resume but obviously has 4 great wins put hm over the top.

Duran
A+ wins Leonard(the best win on the list)
A- wins Marcel Dejesus 3 Buchannon
B+ wins Moore Palomino Dejesus 2

Quit against Leonard I don't hold that too much against him but the first Dejesus fight knocks him down a little bit IMO

Chavez
A+ wins Camacho
A- wins Rosario Taylor
B+ wins Taylor 2 Ramirez Haugen Martinez Mayweather 1

Got beat by Randall he was a just past his prime but Chavez avenged the loss I won't count either fight. Overall a very deep resume

Roy
A+ wins Hopkins Toney
B+ wins Sosa Griffin McCallum Gonzalez Ruiz Hill

No legit losses in his prime. Very deep resume featuring 2 A+ wins

JAB5239
06-21-2011, 06:14 AM
LOL here it is laid out for you, Roy's resume is right there with those guys.

Leonard
A+ wins Benitez Hearns Duran 2
A wins Hagler
B+ wins Kalule Lalonde

Only loss in his prime is to Duran no shame in that. Not much depth in his resume but obviously has 4 great wins put hm over the top.

Duran
A+ wins Leonard(the best win on the list) Buchannon
A- wins Marcel Dejesus 3
B+ wins Moore Palomino Dejesus 2

Quit against Leonard I don't hold that too much against him but the first Dejesus fight knocks him down a little bit IMO

Chavez
A+ wins Camacho
A- wins Rosario Taylor
B+ wins Taylor 2 Ramirez Haugen Martinez Mayweather 1

Got beat by Randall he was a just past his prime but Chavez avenged the loss I won't count either fight. Overall a very deep resume

Roy
A+ wins Hopkins Toney
B+ wins Sosa Griffin McCallum Gonzalez Ruiz Hill

No legit losses in his prime. Very deep resume featuring 2 A+ wins

I'll say both Toney and Hopkins are A- wins. How you ever came to the conclusion Sosa, Griffin and Gonzales are anything more than c+ wins is beyond me. And YES Roy has a legitimate loss to one of those C+ fighters. Jones may have been coming on at the time of his (legitimate DQ) but he was out landed up to that point by Griffin who also had the better connect percentage. McCallum was 114 years old at the time he fought Jones. He was so old he actually learned to box from Joe Gans.

seopower
06-21-2011, 06:40 AM
i agree with you

SCtrojansbaby
06-21-2011, 06:46 AM
I'll say both Toney and Hopkins are A- wins. How you ever came to the conclusion Sosa, Griffin and Gonzales are anything more than c+ wins is beyond me. And YES Roy has a legitimate loss to one of those C+ fighters. Jones may have been coming on at the time of his (legitimate DQ) but he was out landed up to that point by Griffin who also had the better connect percentage. McCallum was 114 years old at the time he fought Jones. He was so old he actually learned to box from Joe Gans.

I don't know why I am doing this but I will.

Sosa was a very tough fighter he gave Toney hell at 160, beat Glen Johnson at 168 and he had just beaten Prince Charles Williams and was considered to be a top 5 light heavyweight.

Griffin was coming off a win against Toney but I agree he was more of a C+/B level fighter but Roy knocked him out in the first round which is why its a B+ win

Gonzalez beat Dariusz giving him his first loss you can complain about Roy not fighting dariusz and then at the same time not give Gonzalez credit for being a B level fighter. And of course Roy shut him out in very impressive fashion which is why its a B+ level win.

McCallum was old as hell but was still a top 5 light heavyweight who narrowly lost his belt to Tiozzo. Old as he was McCallum had never been dominated before and Roy shut him out in impressive fashion.

I have already gone over the BS DQ. Griffin faked the KO because he knew he wouldn't have made it out of the round. Oh and as far as who was up it was a close fight not as clear as you make it out to be.

Oh and I am not responding to you again on the subject so say your usual crap about where is the proof and how everybody was weight drained or not in there prime blah blah.

JAB5239
06-21-2011, 07:25 AM
I don't know why I am doing this but I will.

Sosa was a very tough fighter he gave Toney hell at 160, beat Glen Johnson at 168 and he had just beaten Prince Charles Williams and was considered to be a top 5 light heavyweight.

Griffin was coming off a win against Toney but I agree he was more of a C+/B level fighter but Roy knocked him out in the first round which is why its a B+ win

Gonzalez beat Dariusz giving him his first loss you can complain about Roy not fighting dariusz and then at the same time not give Gonzalez credit for being a B level fighter. And of course Roy shut him out in very impressive fashion which is why its a B+ level win.

McCallum was old as hell but was still a top 5 light heavyweight who narrowly lost his belt to Tiozzo. Old as he was McCallum had never been dominated before and Roy shut him out in impressive fashion.

I have already gone over the BS DQ. Griffin faked the KO because he knew he wouldn't have made it out of the round. Oh and as far as who was up it was a close fight not as clear as you make it out to be.

Oh and I am not responding to you again on the subject so say your usual crap about where is the proof and how everybody was weight drained or not in there prime blah blah.

You've used triangle theories to try and legitimize your position, excused McCallum being 114 years old, and offered ZERO proof (as usual) of Griffin faking getting hit while down. I wouldn't want to respond again either with this weak argument.

Roy is in the top 50 p4p all time. If it was based on the most naturally gifted he'd be in the top 5. Bottom line is he sports a weak resume compared to true top 30 fighters to be ranked that high. To bad because he had the talent to get there, he just didn't make all the fights.

Ziggy Stardust
06-21-2011, 11:24 AM
Duran
A+ wins Leonard(the best win on the list)
A- wins Marcel Dejesus 3 Buchannon
B+ wins Moore Palomino Dejesus 2

Quit against Leonard I don't hold that too much against him but the first Dejesus fight knocks him down a little bit IMO

More proof you don't know jack sh1t. DeJesus is by and large considered an ATG Lightweight.

Poet

McGoorty
07-26-2011, 04:46 PM
Based on resume and quality of wins I am confident I could compile a list of 30 fighters who should rank higher all time than Jones, so my answer is a resounding no.
Yeah I agree with Jab, you can have him there but who do you take out ? Packey McFarland, Canzoneri, Walker ? there are just so many, an ATG list takes all decades into account, boxing didn't begin with Ray Robinson in the late 30's and I think you could rate Roy's opposition overall about 3 out of 10, actually most of his fights bored me so he's not in the top 30 most exciting fighters ever. I respect people who hold him high though.

bojangles1987
07-26-2011, 05:30 PM
His resume doesn't allow it, but I don't think there are 30 fighters better than Roy all time.

Mugwump
07-26-2011, 05:48 PM
LOL Roy's resume ranks right up there with Duran Ali Leonard and Chavez as the best of the past 30-40 years

[fx: cough! splutter!!]

Walt Liquor
07-26-2011, 10:34 PM
I think roy should be somewhere around 30-40. But ive never made a list.

I have bhop higher out of active fighters, and manny neck n neck.

IronDanHamza
07-26-2011, 10:58 PM
Yeah I agree with Jab, you can have him there but who do you take out ? Packey McFarland, Canzoneri, Walker ? there are just so many, an ATG list takes all decades into account, boxing didn't begin with Ray Robinson in the late 30's and I think you could rate Roy's opposition overall about 3 out of 10, actually most of his fights bored me so he's not in the top 30 most exciting fighters ever. I respect people who hold him high though.

McFarland, Canzoneri and Walker are definitely greater than Roy Jones.

And there are easily another 27 who are also greater, easily.

I'm pretty stunned shocked at the poll results.

The_Demon
07-27-2011, 12:10 AM
McFarland, Canzoneri and Walker are definitely greater than Roy Jones.

And there are easily another 27 who are also greater, easily.

I'm pretty stunned shocked at the poll results.

Im stunned too,some of the guys from NSB must have voted without giving any reason

Their are 50+ guys with a resume better than jones',thats says a lot

McGoorty
07-27-2011, 04:50 AM
McFarland, Canzoneri and Walker are definitely greater than Roy Jones.

And there are easily another 27 who are also greater, easily.

I'm pretty stunned shocked at the poll results.
Iron Dan the demon and me are unanimous, Jones not top 30 or even 50, I wouldn't have him in front of Darcy, Hagler, Basilio, Loughran, Bat Nelson, Gans, Leonard I may even have Mayweather in front of Jones but a long way in front of the "Golden Boy" oscar ( notice the lower case ), in fact there's only one definite Top 50er from this century and we all know who that is ( filipino ). I will post more names ASAP.