View Full Version : How hard did Marciano hit compared to heavyweights like Foreman, Liston, Shavers


kendom
06-13-2011, 03:25 PM
Some say his power is overrated, others say he was the hardest hitter of them all, i heard stories about his power able to lift 1000 pounds is there truth to this? in comparison to the heaviest hitters like Foreman Liston, Tyson and Shavers how hard did he hit

New England
06-13-2011, 03:30 PM
well he was markedly small for a HW champion


he had little arms, a small base, smallish bones (again, in HW champion terms)


he did, however, put everything humanly possible into his punches, so much so that he would literally throw himself to the ground when he got into the sport.


p4p i would say that he's a very hard puncher at the absolute least.
additionally, he was able to knock men out from round 1 to round 15, which tyson, shavers, and some of the other historic great HW punchers could not.


i would rank his power below the men you mentioned merely because of the size

im going off the top of my head, but i don't think rocky had a longer reach than 70 inches. i don't feel like looking it up, but it believe his reach was 68 inches. thats only an inch longer than pacquiao, four inches shorter than mayweather, about seven inches shorter than martinez, etc.
you just cant generate as much leverage and force with a body that small as you can with a body like liston, or foreman, with much longer arms, bigger shoulders, a wider base, more height for leverage, and obviously more weight to transfer

kendom
06-13-2011, 03:33 PM
well he was markedly small for a HW champion


he had little arms, a small base, smallish bones (again, in HW champion terms)


he did, however, put everything humanly possible into his punches, so much so that he would literally throw himself to the ground when he got into the sport.


p4p i would say that he's a very hard puncher at the absolute least.
additionally, he was able to knock men out from round 1 to round 15, which tyson, shavers, and some of the other historic great HW punchers could not.


i would rank his power below the men you mentioned merely because of the size

im going off the top of my head, but i don't think rocky had a longer reach than 70 inches
you just cant generate as much leverage and force with a body that small as you can with a body like liston, or foreman, with much longer arms, bigger shoulders, a wider base, and more height for leverage.

Wouldnt small arms be a ind of advantage as you can throw short compact punches hard to avoid?

Pastrano
06-13-2011, 03:35 PM
He's there with Tyson and Liston approximately. Not quite as hard puncher as Shavers and Foreman, but not that far from them either.

New England
06-13-2011, 03:37 PM
Wouldnt small arms be a ind of advantage as you can throw short compact punches hard to avoid?

in terms of punching power, in a word, no. a development of an understanding of punching power doesn't come overnight certainly.


bigger arms are associated with larger men, obviously
higher weight classes
etc.
harder punchers generally




think of it like bringing a bigger gun to a gunfight
or a larger stick to a stickfight

or sword to a swordfight

are you gonna do more damage winging a dagger around at your opponents breastplate or are you going to go at him with a two handed sword with some length and leverage?

Joeyzagz
06-13-2011, 03:50 PM
He hit harder than Vitali for sure.

Not sure if hed make top 10 but definitely far above the average Heavyweight.

The Surgeon
06-13-2011, 03:52 PM
Marciano had ROCKS for fists and could hurt u in any round as NE pointed out which is a huge advantage

Im no size whore but in truth his lack of it hurts him here, all the guys mentioned hit harder imo but p4p he might well best them all

Forza
06-13-2011, 04:15 PM
He had slightly bigger 1 punch power than Tyson. Shavers, liston and foreman got him beat though. He just wasn't big enough to hang with those giants in terms of pure power.

SBleeder
06-13-2011, 04:17 PM
Your poll choices make the flawed assumption that Shavers and Foreman hit harder than Liston. I'll give you Shavers, but Liston definitely hit harder than George in my book.

kendom
06-13-2011, 04:28 PM
Your poll choices make the flawed assumption that Shavers and Foreman hit harder than Liston. I'll give you Shavers, but Liston definitely hit harder than George in my book.

Why? a boxing commentator says that he had never seen anyone hit a heavy bag like Foreman including Sonny Liston and Big Georges knockouts just seem more devastating, could Liston take out Frazier the way Foreman did? he could but it wouldnt be as devastating or short in my opinion, maybe 3rd or 4th round.

$BloodyNate$
06-13-2011, 04:45 PM
Still can't get over the shots he hit Louis and Walcott with. The man was nasty. I think he's definitely somewhere up there. Definitely better then the average heavyweight.

barfly12
06-13-2011, 04:49 PM
and George hit much harder. No comparison.

Ziggy Stardust
06-13-2011, 05:18 PM
well he was markedly small for a HW champion


he had little arms, a small base, smallish bones (again, in HW champion terms)


he did, however, put everything humanly possible into his punches, so much so that he would literally throw himself to the ground when he got into the sport.


p4p i would say that he's a very hard puncher at the absolute least.
additionally, he was able to knock men out from round 1 to round 15, which tyson, shavers, and some of the other historic great HW punchers could not.


i would rank his power below the men you mentioned merely because of the size

im going off the top of my head, but i don't think rocky had a longer reach than 70 inches. i don't feel like looking it up, but it believe his reach was 68 inches. thats only an inch longer than pacquiao, four inches shorter than mayweather, about seven inches shorter than martinez, etc.
you just cant generate as much leverage and force with a body that small as you can with a body like liston, or foreman, with much longer arms, bigger shoulders, a wider base, more height for leverage, and obviously more weight to transfer

It's more complicated that.....I'll get into it a bit more with you when I got a bit more time. Just to say for the time being that most of a puncher's power is generated by the legs not the arms :)

Poet

New England
06-13-2011, 05:44 PM
It's more complicated that.....I'll get into it a bit more with you when I got a bit more time. Just to say for the time being that most of a puncher's power is generated by the legs not the arms :)

Poet



we can get into it later certainly in more detail


for the purposes of elaborating on post that the young man put up (that punching power would be greater coming from smaller arms because they would find space,) i felt it appropriate to tell him that larger arms, generally of course, and on the whole, generate more power


larger arms are generally are on larger bodies
with larger legs, hands, etc


and i do agree certainly, especially in terms of the base, legs are important for generating power

after all, you are essentially transferring weight over space



to address the young man's post, the idea was to say that a bigger stick generally is going to hit harder if they are moving the same speed

and that bigger men generally punch harder.

Pastrano
06-14-2011, 07:29 AM
and George hit much harder. No comparison.

Not really. If you look at his fights with Peralta and Lyle, he had problems putting them both away. Peralta even went the distance with him once, he had balls.:boxing: I think even tho George had heavier hands, Rocky's punches were more effective perhaps. He KNEW how to hit and inflict damage, Foreman was more a crude slugger.

Marchegiano
06-14-2011, 08:56 AM
in terms of punching power, in a word, no. a development of an understanding of punching power doesn't come overnight certainly.


bigger arms are associated with larger men, obviously
higher weight classes
etc.
harder punchers generally




think of it like bringing a bigger gun to a gunfight
or a larger stick to a stickfight

or sword to a swordfight

are you gonna do more damage winging a dagger around at your opponents breastplate or are you going to go at him with a two handed sword with some length and leverage?

Look **** up before you post. If you had you'd know your blatantly wrong here. I am obviously biased in Rocco's favor, and it seems like everytime I defend my champ I get some red K and called troll. in the spirit of not trolling I'm not talking about Rocco's power against any others'...just size.

The first. Bigger body means bigger hands. Larger hands means bigger dispersion of power, meaning an easier to absorb shock blow......does the flat side or round side of a ball-peen do more damage? Also...inertia takes effect...you require more power to move...period, and unfair amount more. This is lost energy( law of conservation of energy boy-o). The op's question is can Rocky hit harder...has little to do with weather the answer is subjective to trajectory....but there's no solid basis to claim anyone bigger can out throw him in his trajectory....really your asking does Tyson's perfect punch beat Rocky's.....not so much can Tyson throw Rocky's punches harder....the answer is no to the latter was given before either men ever threw....it's no, and as you get smaller it gets harder for Mike. See how much force you can generate with the range of motion a toddler has....my nephew hits harder again Law of Conservation of Energy....scientific Newtonian law...you really ain't smart enough to beat it. Second. There is NO BAD body type. If your larger than your perfect trajectory is nice and large. A small man works on the inside. I'll word it like this. Short=inside fighter Tall= outside fighter. Third: the sword comment is absolutely horrid....really? a Two hand-er eh? The long sword (one handed) dominated the sword era...No, you don't simply grab the biggest sword and call it damaging. You grab the extension of yourself with the sharpest blade. Another point in swords that relates: The Shinogi-Zukuri, a curved long sword, used by samurai can cut much more than any straight sword regardless of weight. The reason being dispersion of energy...of the lack of it.
.....really terrible outlook on sword play....just terrible

New England
06-14-2011, 09:10 AM
Look **** up before you post. If you had you'd know your blatantly wrong here. I am obviously biased in Rocco's favor, and it seems like everytime I defend my champ I get some red K and called troll. in the spirit of not trolling I'm not talking about Rocco's power against any others'...just size.

The first. Bigger body means bigger hands. Larger hands means bigger dispersion of power, meaning an easier to absorb shock blow......does the flat side or round side of a ball-peen do more damage? Also...inertia takes effect...you require more power to move...period, and unfair amount more. This is lost energy( law of conservation of energy boy-o). The op's question is can Rocky hit harder...has little to do with weather the answer is subjective to trajectory....but there's no solid basis to claim anyone bigger can out throw him in his trajectory....really your asking does Tyson's perfect punch beat Rocky's.....not so much can Tyson throw Rocky's punches harder....the answer is no to the latter was given before either men ever threw....it's no, and as you get smaller it gets harder for Mike. See how much force you can generate with the range of motion a toddler has....my nephew hits harder again Law of Conservation of Energy....scientific Newtonian law...you really ain't smart enough to beat it. Second. There is NO BAD body type. If your larger than your perfect trajectory is nice and large. A small man works on the inside. I'll word it like this. Short=inside fighter Tall= outside fighter. Third: the sword comment is absolutely horrid....really? a Two hand-er eh? The long sword (one handed) dominated the sword era...No, you don't simply grab the biggest sword and call it damaging. You grab the extension of yourself with the sharpest blade. Another point in swords that relates: The Shinogi-Zukuri, a curved long sword, used by samurai can cut much more than any straight sword regardless of weight. The reason being dispersion of energy...of the lack of it.
.....really terrible outlook on sword play....just terrible


lol you're silly and i'm not even going to bother.

barfly12
06-14-2011, 12:54 PM
Unlike Foreman, Shavers, and to a lesser degree Tyson, Marciano could hit just as hard in the 13th round as he could in the first and second. He never got tired, never got weaker. He carried his power throughouot the whole fight. No one else can say that.

Control-
06-14-2011, 02:44 PM
I don't think he hit quite as hard as Shavers or Foreman but he's one of the top 10 hardest punches in history in my view.

phallus
06-25-2011, 02:38 PM
Still can't get over the shots he hit Louis and Walcott with. The man was nasty. I think he's definitely somewhere up there. Definitely better then the average heavyweight.

Unlike Foreman, Shavers, and to a lesser degree Tyson, Marciano could hit just as hard in the 13th round as he could in the first and second. He never got tired, never got weaker. He carried his power throughouot the whole fight. No one else can say that.

what barfly said is what i was going to say, i can't think of any other fighter that hit as hard in the last round as he did in the first, anybody that can knock out a bigger man in the late rounds with 1 right hand is a devastating puncher. marciano's punches broke bones

nomadman
06-25-2011, 04:21 PM
what barfly said is what i was going to say, i can't think of any other fighter that hit as hard in the last round as he did in the first, anybody that can knock out a bigger man in the late rounds with 1 right hand is a devastating puncher. marciano's punches broke bones

I can think of a couple: Frazier, Wlad, Tua. But yeah, Marciano had great consistency in his power level throughout a fight. It's one of the things that made him so dangerous and exciting.

Miburo
06-25-2011, 04:33 PM
Given his small stature he was a brutal puncher.

nomadman
06-25-2011, 04:48 PM
P4P Marciano was a brutal puncher. Massive fists linked to short squat arms which he swung like wrecking balls throughout the course of a fight. Regardless of what anyone said about him at the time, the effect his punches had on his opponents speaks for itself. He would achieve genuine one-punch knockouts. He would break bones and smash faces in. Very few fighters in history can claim to be able to do the same, and to have done it time and again like the Rock has. That puts him high on my list of P4P punchers.

But...

He was a small man fighting relatively small men themselves. Shavers, Liston, and especially Foreman and Tyson routinely fought much bigger men, and in Tyson's case achieved a body of knockouts as brutal as anyone in the business. Whilst it's impossible to ever know for certain, I'd hazard a guess that all four men punched harder than him, not necessarily in a P4P sense, but objectively measured. Marciano has a few things going for him however:

- As several have already pointed out, he maintained his power throughout the course of the fight. Shavers's and Tyson's power drastically seemed to drop off in the later rounds.

- He had very good timing and underrated accuracy. Foreman may have possessed more brute power but he would too often just crudely club you to body and head till you fell down.

- He constantly put himself in a position to launch his whole bodyweight into shots. In lieu of his small size that's a great compensating factor.

- He developed his whole style around the ability to land fight stopping shots. The whole bobbing and weaving, wide base, low centre of gravity always allowed him to swing from the hips with massive force.

I'll say this. Whilst I don't think his raw power was as great, if I were to make a study of how to punch hard, I'd rather use Marciano as my model than any of the above, barring perhaps Tyson; though Tyson's style was extremely energy draining and relied on physical talents that the average person doesn't possess. Marciano's style was tiring too (hence his insane conditioning program) but I think it's more applicable to a fighter looking to maximise his punching power. He got the most out of his body every single time. Guys like Foreman tended to coast on their power, whilst fighters like Shavers didn't always apply their power in the best possible way to ending the fight.

I've refrained from posting in the poll as it assumes things that I don't agree with, and is worded in a way that makes one feel disrespectful if you pick option four (which is what I would have gone for).

Greatest1942
06-27-2011, 03:58 AM
P4P Marciano was a brutal puncher. Massive fists linked to short squat arms which he swung like wrecking balls throughout the course of a fight. Regardless of what anyone said about him at the time, the effect his punches had on his opponents speaks for itself. He would achieve genuine one-punch knockouts. He would break bones and smash faces in. Very few fighters in history can claim to be able to do the same, and to have done it time and again like the Rock has. That puts him high on my list of P4P punchers.

But...

He was a small man fighting relatively small men themselves. Shavers, Liston, and especially Foreman and Tyson routinely fought much bigger men, and in Tyson's case achieved a body of knockouts as brutal as anyone in the business. Whilst it's impossible to ever know for certain, I'd hazard a guess that all four men punched harder than him, not necessarily in a P4P sense, but objectively measured. Marciano has a few things going for him however:

- As several have already pointed out, he maintained his power throughout the course of the fight. Shavers's and Tyson's power drastically seemed to drop off in the later rounds.

- He had very good timing and underrated accuracy. Foreman may have possessed more brute power but he would too often just crudely club you to body and head till you fell down.

- He constantly put himself in a position to launch his whole bodyweight into shots. In lieu of his small size that's a great compensating factor.

- He developed his whole style around the ability to land fight stopping shots. The whole bobbing and weaving, wide base, low centre of gravity always allowed him to swing from the hips with massive force.

I'll say this. Whilst I don't think his raw power was as great, if I were to make a study of how to punch hard, I'd rather use Marciano as my model than any of the above, barring perhaps Tyson; though Tyson's style was extremely energy draining and relied on physical talents that the average person doesn't possess. Marciano's style was tiring too (hence his insane conditioning program) but I think it's more applicable to a fighter looking to maximise his punching power. He got the most out of his body every single time. Guys like Foreman tended to coast on their power, whilst fighters like Shavers didn't always apply their power in the best possible way to ending the fight.

I've refrained from posting in the poll as it assumes things that I don't agree with, and is worded in a way that makes one feel disrespectful if you pick option four (which is what I would have gone for).

Here's what LaStarza had to say about Rocky.

On fighting Rocky Marciano: "I won the first fight. Everyone thought I won the first fight except the referee. One judge scored it for me, the ref and the other judge gave it to Marciano. All the newspaper guys gave me the decision.

"The second fight, ruined me. It was easy at first. Then in maybe the sixth round I blocked a punch with my left arm and my left was gone. I blocked one of his right hands and that was it. I hurt that arm in training and when I blocked that punch I damaged blood vessels in my arm. I stood there and took a beating until the 11th. "If I had one word to describe Rocky it would be relentless. I would throw a right hand, he would throw a right hand. But the difference was Rocky would throw 10. He didn't hit me the hardest, but he hit me the most often. Don't get me wrong, Rocky was a great fighter. He was tough and he never stopped throwing punches."

Ohh...Rocky faced only small guys ? I am not a Rocky fan. But this is streching it.

He fought---

6'4 254lb jerry jackson - KO 1

6'3 230lb big bill wilson - TKO 1

6'3 220lb Johnny shkor- KO 6

6'5 215lb patrick connelly - KO 1

6'2 214lb Joe Louis - KO 8

Small men right? All of these would have weighed 230-240 in Mikes era. (Many already did).

Mike weighed around 220. And yes he took on bigger guys. But what were those bigger guys ? Were Berbock,Tillis , Green, much better thabn an Old lOuis, Walcott, rex layne, Vingo etc. Tyson's 27 fight pre-title opposition?

268 CAREER KO LOSSES !!!I am not a fan of Peek a boo style. In a long fight it is detrimental. And later on you can never be the same. It took some one with the physical assets of Tyson to pull it off.

But compliments on the post over all. I just think Mike hit hard but not so hard as most make it out to be. He was great however at putting in combos with speed and accuracy.That was his forte. No one except Louis did it with more power ,precision and speed. But his one shot power was great but nothing over the top.

OLD JUD
06-27-2011, 06:57 AM
.................................................. .................................................. ......He was a small man fighting relatively small men themselves. Shavers, Liston, and especially Foreman and Tyson routinely fought much bigger men, and in Tyson's case achieved a body of knockouts as brutal as anyone in the business. Whilst it's impossible to ever know for certain, I'd hazard a guess that all four men punched harder than him, not necessarily in a P4P sense, but objectively measured. Marciano has a few things going for him however:

- As several have already pointed out, he maintained his power throughout the course of the fight. Shavers's and Tyson's power drastically seemed to drop off in the later rounds.

Shavers was a one trick pony, crude boxing skills, poor stamina, but a lethal puncher.

-
He had very good timing and underrated accuracy. Foreman may have possessed more brute power but he would too often just crudely club you to body and head till you fell down.

Agreed.

.

Here's what LaStarza had to say about Rocky.

On fighting Rocky Marciano: "I won the first fight. Everyone thought I won the first fight except the referee. One judge scored it for me, the ref and the other judge gave it to Marciano. All the newspaper guys gave me the decision.

"The second fight, ruined me. It was easy at first. Then in maybe the sixth round I blocked a punch with my left arm and my left was gone. I blocked one of his right hands and that was it. I hurt that arm in training and when I blocked that punch I damaged blood vessels in my arm. I stood there and took a beating until the 11th. "If I had one word to describe Rocky it would be relentless. I would throw a right hand, he would throw a right hand. But the difference was Rocky would throw 10. He didn't hit me the hardest, but he hit me the most often. Don't get me wrong, Rocky was a great fighter. He was tough and he never stopped throwing punches."

Ohh...Rocky faced only small guys ? I am not a Rocky fan. But this is streching it.

He fought---

6'4 254lb jerry jackson - KO 1

6'3 230lb big bill wilson - TKO 1

6'3 220lb Johnny shkor- KO 6

6'5 215lb patrick connelly - KO 1

6'2 214lb Joe Louis - KO 8

Small men right? All of these would have weighed 230-240 in Mikes era. (Many already did).

Mike weighed around 220. And yes he took on bigger guys. But what were those bigger guys ? Were Berbock,Tillis , Green, much better thabn an Old lOuis, Walcott, rex layne, Vingo etc. Tyson's 27 fight pre-title opposition?

268 CAREER KO LOSSES !!!I am not a fan of Peek a boo style. In a long fight it is detrimental. And later on you can never be the same. It took some one with the physical assets of Tyson to pull it off.

But compliments on the post over all. I just think Mike hit hard but not so hard as most make it out to be. He was great however at putting in combos with speed and accuracy.That was his forte. No one except Louis did it with more power ,precision and speed. But his one shot power was great but nothing over the top.

Rocky might well have fought bigger men, but what about the quality of the men you have listed? Should a geriatric Joe Louis be regarded as a creditable opponent?

And a quick comment about Earnie Shavers punching power, from the ONLY man to face both Earnie Shavers and Mike Tyson.......Larry Holmes.

'When Tyson hit me, it was like being hit by a sports car, when Shavers hit me, it was like being hit by a TRUCK!'

'Nuff said..........

Greatest1942
06-27-2011, 07:59 AM
Rocky might well have fought bigger men, but what about the quality of the men you have listed? Should a geriatric Joe Louis be regarded as a creditable opponent?

And a quick comment about Earnie Shavers punching power, from the ONLY man to face both Earnie Shavers and Mike Tyson.......Larry Holmes.

'When Tyson hit me, it was like being hit by a sports car, when Shavers hit me, it was like being hit by a TRUCK!'

'Nuff said..........

Question for your enuff said? Where the hell you saw me questioning Shavers power?

Louis was good enough at that stage to be a top contender. Watch his videos. Dont go by prototypes. He was certainly better than the Holmes Tyson beat.

Those guys I named were big men. Question was did Rocky did beat any big men? I listed some. Now you have come up with quality. Okay. Except an old retired Holmes and a light heavy Spinks who did Tyson beat? Like I said Tyson's 27 fight pre-title opposition?

268 CAREER KO LOSSES !!! Some of the guys Tyson beat eneded up with losing records. I can assure you those guys were not much worse.

Shavers hits the hardest of the people listed. No doubts about that. Was Marciano a harder hitter than Shavers? No way. Foreman was a more of a clubbing puncher not the type who will put u to sleep with his punches, but the type who will club you down. Was he stronger than Rocky? Hell yea. Punching power potential? George. One punch KO power? Rocky.

Rocky might be a slightly weaker puncher than Shavers , Tyson , Foreman due to him being slower. Where did you see anything that I wrote against it. But telling that he never fought bigger opponents and Tyson was better because he beat bigger opponents is not true either.

OLD JUD
06-27-2011, 08:41 AM
Question for your enuff said? Where the hell you saw me questioning Shavers power?

Louis was good enough at that stage to be a top contender. Watch his videos. Dont go by prototypes. He was certainly better than the Holmes Tyson beat.

Those guys I named were big men. Question was did Rocky did beat any big men? I listed some. Now you have come up with quality. Okay. Except an old retired Holmes and a light heavy Spinks who did Tyson beat? Like I said Tyson's 27 fight pre-title opposition?

268 CAREER KO LOSSES !!! Some of the guys Tyson beat eneded up with losing records. I can assure you those guys were not much worse.

Shavers hits the hardest of the people listed. No doubts about that. Was Marciano a harder hitter than Shavers? No way. Foreman was a more of a clubbing puncher not the type who will put u to sleep with his punches, but the type who will club you down. Was he stronger than Rocky? Hell yea. Punching power potential? George. One punch KO power? Rocky.

Rocky might be a slightly weaker puncher than Shavers , Tyson , Foreman due to him being slower. Where did you see anything that I wrote against it. But telling that he never fought bigger opponents and Tyson was better because he beat bigger opponents is not true either.

Before you get too hysterical lets clear one issue up, I DID NOT CLAIM THAT YOU QUESTIONED Shavers punch power........OK?

I simply commented on Shavers power, and YOU have misunderstood that.
And lets be clear on one thing, physical size of opponent is irrelevant, it's the size of the fight within the opponent that counts, better to have a win over a 'Live' 5' 10" opponent than a 6' 4" 'Stiff'...................

Greatest1942
06-27-2011, 08:49 AM
Before you get too hysterical lets clear one issue up, I DID NOT CLAIM THAT YOU QUESTIONED Shavers punch power........OK?

I simply commented on Shavers power, and YOU have misunderstood that.
And lets be clear on one thing, physical size of opponent is irrelevant, it's the size of the fight within the opponent that counts, better to have a win over a 'Live' 5' 10" opponent than a 6' 4" 'Stiff'...................

Ha ha...dont wry I wont go hysterical from comments in an internet forum.:nono:

I thought I read you asking the quality of those big men. So replied. Some one posted that Marciano was a small guy who beat small guys like himself. While Tyson regularly beat guys bigger than him. And then I replied, you asked their qualities. So I had to go into a bit of depth about some of the big guys others beat.:headbang:

The last part of my post was regarding the "Quality " of bigger gusy crushed by Mike.

Yea, I never bothered about size much, some really do unfortunately. Good to know that you feel the same

OLD JUD
06-27-2011, 08:55 AM
Ha ha...dont wry I wont go hysterical from comments in an internet forum.:nono:

I thought I read you asking the quality of those big men. So replied. Some one posted that Marciano was a small guy who beat small guys like himself. While Tyson regularly beat guys bigger than him. And then I replied, you asked their qualities. So I had to go into a bit of depth about some of the big guys others beat.:headbang:

The last part of my post was regarding the "Quality " of bigger gusy crushed by Mike.

Yea, I never bothered about size much, some really do unfortunately. Good to know that you feel the same

No problem pal, point taken and understood.
I don't want to fall out with any of the sensible guys on here, and you obviously know your game!:D

Rolaz
06-27-2011, 09:28 AM
Why not examine their record?

Rocky Marciano:
49 Wins (43 knockouts, 6 decisions), 0 Losses, 0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Marciano
KO percentage = 87.75%

George Foreman:
76 Wins (68 knockouts, 8 decisions), 5 Losses (1 knockout, 4 decisions),
0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Foreman
KO Percentage = 89.47%


Sonny Liston:
50 Wins (39 knockouts, 11 decisions), 4 Losses (3 knockouts, 1 decision), 0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Liston
KO Percentage = 78%

Ernie Shavers:
74 Wins (68 knockouts, 6 decisions), 14 Losses (7 knockouts, 7 decisions), 1 Draw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnie_Shavers
KO Percentage = 91.89%

MANIAC310
06-27-2011, 09:43 AM
Why not examine their record?

Rocky Marciano:
49 Wins (43 knockouts, 6 decisions), 0 Losses, 0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Marciano
KO percentage = 87.75%

George Foreman:
76 Wins (68 knockouts, 8 decisions), 5 Losses (1 knockout, 4 decisions),
0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Foreman
KO Percentage = 89.47%


Sonny Liston:
50 Wins (39 knockouts, 11 decisions), 4 Losses (3 knockouts, 1 decision), 0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Liston
KO Percentage = 78%

Ernie Shavers:
74 Wins (68 knockouts, 6 decisions), 14 Losses (7 knockouts, 7 decisions), 1 Draw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnie_Shavers
KO Percentage = 91.89%


because their opponents weren't on the same level..

Greatest1942
06-28-2011, 03:54 AM
Why not examine their record?

Rocky Marciano:
49 Wins (43 knockouts, 6 decisions), 0 Losses, 0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Marciano
KO percentage = 87.75%

George Foreman:
76 Wins (68 knockouts, 8 decisions), 5 Losses (1 knockout, 4 decisions),
0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Foreman
KO Percentage = 89.47%


Sonny Liston:
50 Wins (39 knockouts, 11 decisions), 4 Losses (3 knockouts, 1 decision), 0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Liston
KO Percentage = 78%

Ernie Shavers:
74 Wins (68 knockouts, 6 decisions), 14 Losses (7 knockouts, 7 decisions), 1 Draw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnie_Shavers
KO Percentage = 91.89%

KO percentage should always be calculated by this formula fights won by KO/ Total fights * 100.

Try this and you will see that Shavers has probably less KO percentage than Foreman or Marciano.

Dont go by Liston's KO percentage. He was a boxer puncher. He tried to box behind his jab . He was not the type of Foreman, who wanted to KO guys ASAP. No. But Liston was extremely strong, eventually his power would hurt his opponent. He was a very strong puncher. Sometimes stats can be misleading.

Yes their opponents were not all on an even peg, but they never are. They destroyed the best they faced (Foreman, Marciano, Liston). Thats all that should count.

Omega-Red
06-28-2011, 05:21 AM
LOL Marciano went 10 rounds with a mediocre fighter named Ted Lowry who often fought at 172, 174 pounds, and couldn't Ko him.

Query? Does anyone here think that even the best 175 pound fighter (which Lowry was not) would survive 10 rounds against Foreman or Tyson?

How long did Spinks last against Tyson? How long did Bob Foster last against Frazier, who didn't even hit as hard as Foreman.

It's a bit absurd to make a direct power comparison here. Now for his size, Marciano hit fairly hard.

kendom
06-28-2011, 07:09 AM
LOL Marciano went 10 rounds with a mediocre fighter named Ted Lowry who often fought at 172, 174 pounds, and couldn't Ko him.

Query? Does anyone here think that even the best 175 pound fighter (which Lowry was not) would survive 10 rounds against Foreman or Tyson?

How long did Spinks last against Tyson? How long did Bob Foster last against Frazier, who didn't even hit as hard as Foreman.

It's a bit absurd to make a direct power comparison here. Now for his size, Marciano hit fairly hard.

Good point, unlike punchers like Tyson and Foreman Marciano often lacked the ability to blow his opponents out early, he often broke them down with barrages of punches and took a lot of time to warm to the task, look at the fact that he took 9 rounds to brush off Don ****ell, he was a poor starter, which is why i think he would have lost to Tyson and Foreman, he started too slow, he wouldnt last against the early round blitzing of Tyson.

Greatest1942
06-28-2011, 07:28 AM
LOL Marciano went 10 rounds with a mediocre fighter named Ted Lowry who often fought at 172, 174 pounds, and couldn't Ko him.

Query? Does anyone here think that even the best 175 pound fighter (which Lowry was not) would survive 10 rounds against Foreman or Tyson?

How long did Spinks last against Tyson? How long did Bob Foster last against Frazier, who didn't even hit as hard as Foreman.

It's a bit absurd to make a direct power comparison here. Now for his size, Marciano hit fairly hard.

LOL!!!!

Heard the names Roberto Davila, Levi Forte ? Foreman could not KO them either.


George weighing almost 220 pound could not KO a man named Gregorio Peralta. Not Lowry. BTW Foreman outweighed Peralta by as much or more than Marciano outweighed Lowry by. Peralta spent much of his career at light heavy too. Jimmy Young though a good boxer wasnt a big heavy too. George won vs Young did he?

Tyson ? Do you know Mitch Green. Tyson could not KO Mitch Green.

Tillis ?James Tillis past his prime and a decent journeyman lost a close decision to Tyson. Tillis never beat a top 10 heavyweight in his career and was KO'd 11 times. Funny Tyson could not Ko a guy others did 11 times.

Larry Sims ? The guy who was stopped by a 42 year old Shavers in one round. Tyson took 3.

Frazier beat Foster ? Okay . Foster got beat by almost every heavy he faced. And Rocky beat Archie Moore a great light heavy whose career at heavy is light years ahead of Foster.

See its not so difficult to dish your great Tyson or Foreman either.