View Full Version : The brutal power of Earnie Shavers.


BattlingNelson
06-12-2011, 04:18 PM
I stumbled on this vid about Earnie Shavers. It shows some of the best punches he landed in his career. What a wallop he carried. One of the shots in the vid is a brutal right that lands perfectly on the jaw of Ali. How he took that one is just aweinspiring.

Check this vid. It's good stuff on arguably one of the 3 hardest punchers in history.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/chIurKnmX60" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Vadrigar.
06-12-2011, 04:25 PM
There's some others too:

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6oVgH6sIBuc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="360" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x71zo2"></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x71zo2_earnie-shavers_sport" target="_blank">Earnie Shavers</a> <i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/TheGreatA" target="_blank">TheGreatA</a></i>

Shabba Rank$
06-12-2011, 04:35 PM
What do you think of the Julian Jackson vs Earnie Shavers p4p hardest puncher argument bat?

BattlingNelson
06-12-2011, 04:44 PM
What do you think of the Julian Jackson vs Earnie Shavers p4p hardest puncher argument bat?
This p4p is so subjective man, but in straight concussive one punch KO-power I have to go with Jackson. But then again. Watching the power Shavers generates on some of those shots. It's a real spectacle.

Judging from your avatar I suspect you agree with my pick? :lol1:

Marcov
06-12-2011, 05:10 PM
Shavers was one of the most dangerous heavies I have ever seen. Too bad their aren't any like him today.

Shabba Rank$
06-12-2011, 05:23 PM
This p4p is so subjective man, but in straight concussive one punch KO-power I have to go with Jackson. But then again. Watching the power Shavers generates on some of those shots. It's a real spectacle.

Judging from your avatar I suspect you agree with my pick? :lol1:

Yes.....

Caught me red handed...

:lol1:

$BloodyNate$
06-12-2011, 06:37 PM
Can't go wrong with a method man song in the highlight :rofl:

Dude was pretty fierce!

Ziggy Stardust
06-13-2011, 01:43 AM
Shaver's right + Wlad's chin = Call the morgue :hypnotised9:

Poet

The Surgeon
06-13-2011, 01:52 AM
Shaver right + Wlad's chin = Call the morgue :hypnotised9:

Poet

Lol Earnie could actually Miss and STILL KO Wlad! Thats the type of power The Acorn packed!

Ziggy Stardust
06-13-2011, 01:59 AM
Lol Earnie could actually Miss and STILL KO Wlad! Thats the type of power The Acorn packed!

The wind from Shaver's right might be enough to shatter Wlad's glass :chuckle9:

Poet

JAB5239
06-13-2011, 04:39 AM
This post is directed at both Poet and JUGGERNAUT....Im tired of having to babysit and delete post after post of flaming, baiting and insulting posts in what was a good thread. If it persists I have no problem losing either of you. Usually I send these messages in private, but I think everyone needs to know I am not going to play favorites and that I am serious. If you guys want to insult each other like children than take it to the thunderdome.

nomadman
06-15-2011, 08:03 PM
I like Shavers, but his one punch power is rather overrated and based more on testimony than on actual video evidence. Not that I'm dismissing what Holmes, Ali et al said, but the fact remains that they not only withstood his best shots, but went on to beat him. His cleanest high profile knockout remains the uppercut he hit Ellis with; most of his other knockouts came from accumulation damage or TKOs where he caught and hurt an opponent and followed up with a barrage of shots that ended the fight. A large number of his "KO" vids contain knockdowns of fighters who went on to beat him (Lyle, Holmes, Tillis) which is odd considering the wealth of brutal stoppages that a man with Shavers's reputation must have had. Heavy handed guy though, and anyone who can rock Ali and put down Holmes and Lyle (albeit temporarily) deserves respect. I just don't think he's the devastating puncher he's made out to be.

Ziggy Stardust
06-15-2011, 09:35 PM
I like Shavers, but his one punch power is rather overrated and based more on testimony than on actual video evidence. Not that I'm dismissing what Holmes, Ali et al said, but the fact remains that they not only withstood his best shots, but went on to beat him. His cleanest high profile knockout remains the uppercut he hit Ellis with; most of his other knockouts came from accumulation damage or TKOs where he caught and hurt an opponent and followed up with a barrage of shots that ended the fight. A large number of his "KO" vids contain knockdowns of fighters who went on to beat him (Lyle, Holmes, Tillis) which is odd considering the wealth of brutal stoppages that a man with Shavers's reputation must have had. Heavy handed guy though, and anyone who can rock Ali and put down Holmes and Lyle (albeit temporarily) deserves respect. I just don't think he's the devastating puncher he's made out to be.

And Lennox couldn't KO Tua or Holyfield but I doubt it would lead you to question his power. Point is, a great chin beats a great punch.....there's no way Shavers was KOing Ali or Holmes given their chins, just as there was no way Lennox was KOing Tua or Holyfield given theirs. The truth is, against his better opponents, it was Shavers deficiencies in other areas that got him beat by guys like Lyle and Quarry. A one-dimensional power merchant (ask Tua about this) generally loses to his top opposition because those fighters are able to avoid their power and do their own damage. If anything is overrated it's punching power in general as a major trait for fighters: There's just too many other traits that are more important (like chin).

Poet

Forza
06-15-2011, 09:39 PM
I like Shavers, but his one punch power is rather overrated and based more on testimony than on actual video evidence. Not that I'm dismissing what Holmes, Ali et al said, but the fact remains that they not only withstood his best shots, but went on to beat him. His cleanest high profile knockout remains the uppercut he hit Ellis with; most of his other knockouts came from accumulation damage or TKOs where he caught and hurt an opponent and followed up with a barrage of shots that ended the fight. A large number of his "KO" vids contain knockdowns of fighters who went on to beat him (Lyle, Holmes, Tillis) which is odd considering the wealth of brutal stoppages that a man with Shavers's reputation must have had. Heavy handed guy though, and anyone who can rock Ali and put down Holmes and Lyle (albeit temporarily) deserves respect. I just don't think he's the devastating puncher he's made out to be.

Agreed. Where are all the 1 punch knock outs? The guy was nothing special. Of course ali and holmes said he hits hard, he gave them both a tough fight. Both ali and holmes make up things on the go and change their mind everyday.

nomadman
06-16-2011, 06:09 AM
And Lennox couldn't KO Tua or Holyfield but I doubt it would lead you to question his power. Point is, a great chin beats a great punch.....there's no way Shavers was KOing Ali or Holmes given their chins, just as there was no way Lennox was KOing Tua or Holyfield given theirs. The truth is, against his better opponents, it was Shavers deficiencies in other areas that got him beat by guys like Lyle and Quarry. A one-dimensional power merchant (ask Tua about this) generally loses to his top opposition because those fighters are able to avoid their power and do their own damage. If anything is overrated it's punching power in general as a major trait for fighters: There's just too many other traits that are more important (like chin).


I'm not arguing that Lennox was the hardest puncher ever, but he does have the sort of wealth of brutal knockouts which, IMO, Shavers is lacking given the fearsome reputation he's ascribed. Compare the Rahman KO with the Ellis KO. Which is the more impressive? Compare the Tyson KO to the Bugner stoppage or the blowout of Golota where Golota's eyes were reeling in their sockets to the impressive but not superhuman stoppage of Norton. Again, which were the more impressive? Shavers's power was way above average, no doubt, but nothing that I've seen of him on tape leads me to believe that he was one of the hardest punchers to ever lace them up.

Regarding the Holyfield and Tua fights, sure their chins no doubt helped them survive to the end, but a number of other factors were involved that can't simply be put down to their superior resilience. Firstly, one has to take into account that Lennox wasn't just a one dimensional knockout artist. He would explode with punches if he saw an opening, but he would also be content to sit back and use his superior reach and jab to outbox you if he saw fit. He did that for large stretches against a number of opponents, including Holy and Tua, and in Holy's case his agressive combination attacks further nullified Lennox's aggression. Secondly, especially against Tua, Lennox was extremely wary of engaging too much for fear of catching a sleeper. Had Tua not posed the danger he did he would have been little more than a punching bag, and I wouldn't have been surprised to have seen Lennox finish him.

With Shavers it's a lot simpler, for the fact that he was, by and large, a pretty one dimensional knockout artist. The options of boxing and taking it into the later rounds didn't really exist for him, due both to the crudity of his technique, and his iffy stamina. It was all out or nothing, and the general pattern of his fights esentially boiled down to, "can you withstand my barrage of punches or not?" A surprisingly large number of fighters could, which again has to call into question his ATG power rep, at least against other similar fighters like Tua. Were Lennox to adopt a similar strategy he might have had a lot more early round knockouts, but he would also have probably had a lot more losses. It was a gamble he wasn't prepared to pay.

nomadman
06-16-2011, 06:31 AM
And Lennox couldn't KO Tua or Holyfield but I doubt it would lead you to question his power. Point is, a great chin beats a great punch.....there's no way Shavers was KOing Ali or Holmes given their chins, just as there was no way Lennox was KOing Tua or Holyfield given theirs. The truth is, against his better opponents, it was Shavers deficiencies in other areas that got him beat by guys like Lyle and Quarry. A one-dimensional power merchant (ask Tua about this) generally loses to his top opposition because those fighters are able to avoid their power and do their own damage. If anything is overrated it's punching power in general as a major trait for fighters: There's just too many other traits that are more important (like chin).

Just to address this point separately: I don't think any one physical trait can be said to be categorically above another; it all depends on secondary traits and the style of the fighter you're fighting. But given the choice between just power and chin I'd pick power. No one is immune to the knockout, and sooner or later even the best chins crack (there's also the issue of PD, but we'll leave that to the side for the moment).

RubenSonny
06-16-2011, 11:35 AM
I like Shavers, but his one punch power is rather overrated and based more on testimony than on actual video evidence. Not that I'm dismissing what Holmes, Ali et al said, but the fact remains that they not only withstood his best shots, but went on to beat him. His cleanest high profile knockout remains the uppercut he hit Ellis with; most of his other knockouts came from accumulation damage or TKOs where he caught and hurt an opponent and followed up with a barrage of shots that ended the fight. A large number of his "KO" vids contain knockdowns of fighters who went on to beat him (Lyle, Holmes, Tillis) which is odd considering the wealth of brutal stoppages that a man with Shavers's reputation must have had. Heavy handed guy though, and anyone who can rock Ali and put down Holmes and Lyle (albeit temporarily) deserves respect. I just don't think he's the devastating puncher he's made out to be.

:rofl::rofl: this ****ing clown, the same guy who was claiming Samuel Peter to be some massive puncher.

BattlingNelson
06-16-2011, 05:07 PM
:rofl::rofl: this ****ing clown, the same guy who was claiming Samuel Peter to be some massive puncher.
Go for the subject and not the man please. He presented a fair argument for his opinion. There are other places where you can flame.

RubenSonny
06-16-2011, 05:30 PM
Go for the subject and not the man please. He presented a fair argument for his opinion. There are other places where you can flame.

Fair enough, poor showing on my part.

House of Stone
06-17-2011, 04:43 AM
Shavers had great power but he was NOT a great fighter. I guess his best win was against Norton who went down like a sack of spuds against heavy handed fighters but even guys like Ron Lyle and Jerry Quarry and a well past it Ali had too much for him. His power is undeniable, he put down and hurt some top guys like holmes ... but he didn't beat them. How many on that impressive KO record were bums? How many were real top guys ...

GF of Boxing
06-17-2011, 10:03 AM
I have to give what Ali, Holmes, Norton, and Lyle said about Shavers's power some credibility. Just look at all the punchers they have faced in their careers. Especially Ali. Ali been in the ring with Liston, Bonavena, Williams, Frazier, Foreman, Lyle, Norton, Chuvalo, and Shavers. Those are some very notable punchers. And if Ali said (who I believe had one of the greatest chins in boxing History) that Earnie is the hardest puncher he ever faced, then to me thats saying something.

Ziggy Stardust
06-17-2011, 12:07 PM
Shavers had great power but he was NOT a great fighter. I guess his best win was against Norton who went down like a sack of spuds against heavy handed fighters but even guys like Ron Lyle and Jerry Quarry and a well past it Ali had too much for him. His power is undeniable, he put down and hurt some top guys like holmes ... but he didn't beat them. How many on that impressive KO record were bums? How many were real top guys ...

And that's the whole point: Shavers wasn't a great fighter and great power won't make you one. Power alone isn't going to beat top competition outside of a fluke.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
06-17-2011, 12:24 PM
Just to address this point separately: I don't think any one physical trait can be said to be categorically above another; it all depends on secondary traits and the style of the fighter you're fighting. But given the choice between just power and chin I'd pick power. No one is immune to the knockout, and sooner or later even the best chins crack (there's also the issue of PD, but we'll leave that to the side for the moment).

That's just it: The best chins don't crack bottom line. You can get stopped by the ref for taking too many punches, stopped on cuts, stopped by an injury, retire in your corner.....no one is immune from THOSE kind of KOs but in those cases the power/chin contest isn't the issue. Watch Hagler walk right through Hearns' best shots, watch Ali take the best of Liston and Foreman (yes both landed on the button a few times) without cracking. Hell, see if you can dig up LaMotta Vs. Satterfield. They've had these matchups throughout boxing history where a fighter with a great chin and no punch was matched up with a fighter with a glass jaw and a big punch: Guess who wins the vast majority of the time? The chin.

Truth be told, you could cut Lennox's power in half and he'd still be a damn good fighter; you double his power and it wouldn't make him much better than he already was. Give him Lennox a chin and he jumps 5 spots on my all-time list (and I suspect a number of others' lists as well).

Fight fans in general are too damn obsessed with power. I know it stems from the fact that punchers are entertaining but entertaining doesn't mean squat when it comes down to the brass tacks of who's a great fighter and who isn't. Who wins and who loses.

Poet

nomadman
06-18-2011, 08:07 PM
I have to give what Ali, Holmes, Norton, and Lyle said about Shavers's power some credibility. Just look at all the punchers they have faced in their careers. Especially Ali. Ali been in the ring with Liston, Bonavena, Williams, Frazier, Foreman, Lyle, Norton, Chuvalo, and Shavers. Those are some very notable punchers. And if Ali said (who I believe had one of the greatest chins in boxing History) that Earnie is the hardest puncher he ever faced, then to me thats saying something.

Of course this has to factor into the argument, but IMO people put too much stock into what fighters say and don't pay enough attention to what actually went on in the fight. Briggs said that Vitali hit harder than Foreman and Lennox, Botha said that Mighty Mo (a kickboxer) hit harder than Tyson. In both cases I find their claims hard to believe. Do I think they're lying? Not necessarily, but in the case of Briggs, Big Vit was hitting him with flush shots all night and didn't put him down once. Lennox stopped him. How does that work?

With Shavers you have such a large number of fighters saying similar things about his power, which lends more weight to the claim, but the fact still remains that Ali, Holmes, Lyle, Tillis and Cobb all survived his best shots and went on to beat him. And in Norton's case I'd wager good money that Cooney hit him a darn sight harder than Shavers did. He certainly had him in a much worse state and did so with fewer punches. I don't doubt that Shavers hit them all pretty damn hard for them to say such things about him in the first place, but I simply can't square their words with the evidence of my own eyes. Expecially in Holmes's case, Tyson dropped him with an almost identical shot to the one that put him down against Shavers. The difference was that Tyson went on to get the stoppage where Shavers did not (and for anyone that wants to bring up Larry's age here, bear in mind that this was the only time he was ever stopped, and that he went on to fight at a high level for another decade more).

I'll always bear in mind what fighters have to say about another fighter's power and take it into consideration when forming my opinion. But I'll never let it be the sole decider. And without the quotes I find that Shavers really doesn't have a strong enough body of stoppages to convince me that he was one of the hardest punchers of all time. Though I do admit that he has a ton of really exciting knockouts.

nomadman
06-18-2011, 08:11 PM
That's just it: The best chins don't crack bottom line. You can get stopped by the ref for taking too many punches, stopped on cuts, stopped by an injury, retire in your corner.....no one is immune from THOSE kind of KOs but in those cases the power/chin contest isn't the issue. Watch Hagler walk right through Hearns' best shots, watch Ali take the best of Liston and Foreman (yes both landed on the button a few times) without cracking. Hell, see if you can dig up LaMotta Vs. Satterfield. They've had these matchups throughout boxing history where a fighter with a great chin and no punch was matched up with a fighter with a glass jaw and a big punch: Guess who wins the vast majority of the time? The chin.

Truth be told, you could cut Lennox's power in half and he'd still be a damn good fighter; you double his power and it wouldn't make him much better than he already was. Give him Lennox a chin and he jumps 5 spots on my all-time list (and I suspect a number of others' lists as well).

Fight fans in general are too damn obsessed with power. I know it stems from the fact that punchers are entertaining but entertaining doesn't mean squat when it comes down to the brass tacks of who's a great fighter and who isn't. Who wins and who loses.

I have to disagree with the idea that chins can't crack. I've just seen too many instances of guys people thought were KO proof getting stopped later on in their careers because they absorbed too much punishment early on. Of course the "cracking point" is different for each fighter, and some fighters retire before it's reached. Others find subtle ways to negate the power as they go on. But look at a guy like Andrade who absorbed sickening punishment against Kessler. I don't think there's a better example of a fighter who gets (or got) by on just his insane chin. This guy would regularly get hit flush with huge bombs without visible effect. Then he gets dropped and stopped in four by Bute.

A great chin is a great asset just as great power is, but any trait in isolation is going to be more hindrance than good because you'll end up relying on it too much, and like all things in life it's a finite resource.

Ziggy Stardust
06-18-2011, 08:41 PM
I'll address this post tomorrow. Apologies, but I'm a bit knackered and am going to bed.

No problemo :boxing:

Poet

Mugwump
06-18-2011, 09:16 PM
I asked Earnie Shavers who was the hardest puncher he ever faced when he worked in Liverpool. He surprised me by saying Randall Cobb.

nomadman
06-19-2011, 06:38 AM
I asked Earnie Shavers who was the hardest puncher he ever faced when he worked in Liverpool. He surprised me by saying Randall Cobb.

That's interesting. Cobb's punches didn't look like they could crack an egg in that fight (an exaggeration, but they really didn't look that hard).

young_robbed
06-19-2011, 10:56 AM
Way Overrated

Ziggy Stardust
06-19-2011, 12:25 PM
That's interesting. Cobb's punches didn't look like they could crack an egg in that fight (an exaggeration, but they really didn't look that hard).

Other fighters have said Cobb couldn't bust an egg with a hammer. In Shaver's case it was probably more a matter of being way older and less able to take punches than he used to.

Poet

Mugwump
06-19-2011, 06:33 PM
That's interesting. Cobb's punches didn't look like they could crack an egg in that fight (an exaggeration, but they really didn't look that hard).

It was a body punch that broke two ribs. Quite badly too. Multiple fractures - not a hairline or a clean break.

He said he never felt a punch as hard as that - from anyone.

nomadman
06-19-2011, 07:06 PM
It was a body punch that broke two ribs. Quite badly too. Multiple fractures - not a hairline or a clean break.

He said he never felt a punch as hard as that - from anyone.

Understandable, given that bones were broken. Briggs suffered a broken orbital bone, a broken nose and I think a broken cheekbone from Vitali which might have led to him saying what he said. I sometimes wonder to what extent such injuries might cloud one's judgement regarding the power of their opponent's punches, since I'd guess that you're more likely to remember damage like that sustained over a long period of time than you are if your lights are just put out with one shot.

nomadman
06-19-2011, 09:14 PM
Just to return to the topic for a moment:

Whilst I think Shavers's one hit power was overstated, one thing which I think gets underrated, or perhaps overlooked, is his rather good combination punching. He was extremely adept at mixing it up to both body and head, and would come at you from both sides and from all angles. He had a brutal left body shot/overhand right that often caught a lot of opponents out, and which accounted for a good degree of his success. If he found you hurt or against the ropes he'd constantly club you to the body with hard right hooks, which had the effect of lowering your guard to his big bombs upstairs.

I also consider his left hook to be one of the better hooks, power wise, the division has seen. People talk about how crazy Holmes was to get up from the big right that Earnie landed on him in their second fight, but I'm personally more flabbergasted at how Lyle got up from that killer left that dropped him in the second. Lyle looked totally out of it, the way Izon looked against Tua.

Unforntunately Shavers's power and technique dropped way off once he lost his steam, but in the early rounds he was a bad dude.

them_apples
06-20-2011, 01:59 AM
Of course this has to factor into the argument, but IMO people put too much stock into what fighters say and don't pay enough attention to what actually went on in the fight. Briggs said that Vitali hit harder than Foreman and Lennox, Botha said that Mighty Mo (a kickboxer) hit harder than Tyson. In both cases I find their claims hard to believe. Do I think they're lying? Not necessarily, but in the case of Briggs, Big Vit was hitting him with flush shots all night and didn't put him down once. Lennox stopped him. How does that work?

With Shavers you have such a large number of fighters saying similar things about his power, which lends more weight to the claim, but the fact still remains that Ali, Holmes, Lyle, Tillis and Cobb all survived his best shots and went on to beat him. And in Norton's case I'd wager good money that Cooney hit him a darn sight harder than Shavers did. He certainly had him in a much worse state and did so with fewer punches. I don't doubt that Shavers hit them all pretty damn hard for them to say such things about him in the first place, but I simply can't square their words with the evidence of my own eyes. Expecially in Holmes's case, Tyson dropped him with an almost identical shot to the one that put him down against Shavers. The difference was that Tyson went on to get the stoppage where Shavers did not (and for anyone that wants to bring up Larry's age here, bear in mind that this was the only time he was ever stopped, and that he went on to fight at a high level for another decade more).

I'll always bear in mind what fighters have to say about another fighter's power and take it into consideration when forming my opinion. But I'll never let it be the sole decider. And without the quotes I find that Shavers really doesn't have a strong enough body of stoppages to convince me that he was one of the hardest punchers of all time. Though I do admit that he has a ton of really exciting knockouts.

yo be fair though, accuracy has a lot to do with it. Although I don't doubt Vitali is a heavy puncher, I don't believe his claims. He tooks Vitalis best shots all night long and actually at times didn't seem to care. He ran like Hell from Foreman. Got stopped by Lewis.

but like I said, accuracy had a lot to do with it. Almost everyone in the 90's said Foreman hit them the hardest. Only difference is, you saw his punches coming and often enough took them on the forehead or side of the head rather than the chin.

Watching shavers, he does look like a very very hard puncher. When you have sparred you tend to notice things that cannot be explained. Shavers does look like he packs a huge wallop.