View Full Version : Is Jake Lamotta The Best Body Puncher Of All Time?


Perfect Plex
06-10-2011, 11:29 PM
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Terry A
06-11-2011, 02:47 AM
The 1st thing I think of when Jake LaMotta is mentioned is his chin. Then his constant body punching. That was an integral part of every one of his fights.

When I think of body punching, the 1st name that comes to mind is Mike McCallum.

When I think of the hardest body shots I ever seen, Cooney caving in Ron Lyles ribs comes to mind 1st. It's only a slight exaggeration to say that it looked like Cooney's glove went into Lyle's ribs up to the laces!

The cleanest body shot I ever saw was RJ KO Virgil Hill.

Cooney & Jones were good body shotters (is that a word?) but not as accomplished as LaMotta & McCallum.

I also would throw in Ruben Olivares, Julio C. Chavez & Frazier.

Without digressing any more, my two choices for best ever body puncher is between LaMotta & McCallum. I've seen & read about LaMotta's famed body attack but I've seen more of McCallum's body of work (pun intended).

Can I vote that LaMotta is tied for best body puncher of all time with McCallum?

I'll go ahead & vote "No" on the basis that McCallum had an equally ferocious body attack as the Bull but he has the edge in power. I think he hit harder, punch for punch. And hard punchers always have a special place in my heart. :luvbed:

The_Demon
06-11-2011, 02:53 AM
Id say no,Terry A mentioned the first 3 names that popped into my head-McCallum,Frazier and Chavez,although Lamotta is certainly up there

Mickey Ward comes too mind also,for a guy that was pretty average in most areas he threw a wicked liver shot

NChristo
06-11-2011, 03:14 AM
Carlos Palomino was imo the best body puncher.

SCtrojansbaby
06-11-2011, 04:28 AM
Roy Jones Jr

JAB5239
06-11-2011, 05:50 AM
Roy Jones Jr

How is Jones the best of all time? One great shot does not make a fighter a great body puncher.

The Surgeon
06-11-2011, 06:11 AM
How is Jones the best of all time? One great shot does not make a fighter a great body puncher.

There is no way he's even a consideration for best body puncher, none. But Virgil Hill body KO aside Roy still has a very good body attack, Hopkins said the hardest shot he ever took was a Jones body shot and in fights like Prince Badi Ajamu and Clinton Woods for example his body punching was the biggest factor

JAB5239
06-11-2011, 06:28 AM
There is no way he's even a consideration best body puncher, none. But Virgil Hill body KO aside Roy still has a very good body attack, Hopkins said the hardest shot he ever took was a Jones body shot and in fights like Prince Badi Ajamu and Clinton Woods for example his body punching was the biggest factor

Im not taking anything away from Roy, he could go to the body. But it wasn't his best asset and he rarely used it to soften an opponent up rather relying on his incredible speed and reflexes to get the job done. Great body puncher break a man down by going to the body, and as you said, Jones simply can't be considered among those who did that as their bread and butter.

The Surgeon
06-11-2011, 06:43 AM
Im not taking anything away from Roy, he could go to the body. But it wasn't his best asset and he rarely used it to soften an opponent up rather relying on his incredible speed and reflexes to get the job done. Great body puncher break a man down by going to the body, and as you said, Jones simply can't be considered among those who did that as their bread and butter.

Yeah it seems we are on the same page here JAB, i just wanted it noted Jones was "good" at going to the body.

Lamotta was great but he wouldnt get my vote as Historys Premier body puncher.

Barn
06-11-2011, 07:48 AM
Maybe not up their with the top tier but, Arguello.

The Smash
06-11-2011, 09:48 AM
The left hook to the liver is the most beautiful punch in boxing.

The Surgeon
06-11-2011, 10:00 AM
The left hook to the liver is the most beautiful punch in boxing.

When delivered correctly it takes some beating, one of my favs too

Ward vs Sanchez, Cotto vs Quintana, Gatti vs Dorin.... u get the picture!

Monkz
06-11-2011, 10:04 AM
I wouldn't say the best but he's definitely up there. JCC get's my vote.

The Smash
06-11-2011, 10:22 AM
When delivered correctly it takes some beating, one of my favs too

Ward vs Sanchez, Cotto vs Quintana, Gatti vs Dorin.... u get the picture!

Juan Manuel Marquez was doing orgasmic things with his against Katsidis. He brings that to the table against Manny and we've got a fight.

I always thought Limon had a good body attack, too.

IronDanHamza
06-11-2011, 12:09 PM
The 1st thing I think of when Jake LaMotta is mentioned is his chin. Then his constant body punching. That was an integral part of every one of his fights.

When I think of body punching, the 1st name that comes to mind is Mike McCallum.

When I think of the hardest body shots I ever seen, Cooney caving in Ron Lyles ribs comes to mind 1st. It's only a slight exaggeration to say that it looked like Cooney's glove went into Lyle's ribs up to the laces!

The cleanest body shot I ever saw was RJ KO Virgil Hill.

Cooney & Jones were good body shotters (is that a word?) but not as accomplished as LaMotta & McCallum.

I also would throw in Ruben Olivares, Julio C. Chavez & Frazier.

Without digressing any more, my two choices for best ever body puncher is between LaMotta & McCallum. I've seen & read about LaMotta's famed body attack but I've seen more of McCallum's body of work (pun intended).

Can I vote that LaMotta is tied for best body puncher of all time with McCallum?

I'll go ahead & vote "No" on the basis that McCallum had an equally ferocious body attack as the Bull but he has the edge in power. I think he hit harder, punch for punch. And hard punchers always have a special place in my heart. :luvbed:

Great post.

Loved the inclusion of Ruben Olivares who is genuinely one of the best body punchers of all time and often gets slept on.

The Surgeon
06-11-2011, 12:59 PM
I wouldn't say the best but he's definitely up there. JCC get's my vote. Seems like an obvious choice but thats for good reason, i tend to agree Chavez could well be the best ive seen

The Surgeon
06-11-2011, 01:02 PM
Juan Manuel Marquez was doing orgasmic things with his against Katsidis. He brings that to the table against Manny and we've got a fight. I always thought Limon had a good body attack, too. Brilliant wasnt it, i hadnt seen him use it to that effect prior to Katsidis but i hope he brings it to the table vs Manny, i think Pac while an all round tough nut takes a head shot better than a body shot, Margs had him hurt pretty bad not long ago and i know it was light years ago and he's a different beast now but that time he got KO'd to the body sticks with me.

New England
06-11-2011, 01:57 PM
joe frazier deserves mention

he's about as consistent as anybody i can remember with his body attack

and he got going slow and ended up smoking by the end of the fight, the best plan off attack for a body puncher, considering the nature of the damage and its effect over time


and he was a HW, where true infighting/body snatching is more difficult because of the danger of making your way inside



the "best" body puncher is debatable, and everybody has brought up some good ones
my favorite is probably joe frazier

The Surgeon
06-11-2011, 02:03 PM
Its a shame Tyson let his body punching take a back seat, he looked like being a bit special in that department on his way up....

I still class him as a very good body puncher, he hurt alot of guys to the body and set things up from that but even i cant put him in the Frazier League, not even nearly...

IronDanHamza
06-11-2011, 02:10 PM
Its a shame Tyson let his body punching take a back seat, he looked like being a bit special in that department on his way up....

I still class him as a very good body puncher, he hurt alot of guys to the body and set things up from that but even i cant put him in the Frazier League, not even nearly...

He's a great body puncher, no question.

His fight with Tyrell Biggs was a body punching exhibition.

IronDanHamza
06-11-2011, 02:11 PM
Roberto Duran is one I don't think has been mentioned yet.

#1Assassin
06-11-2011, 02:13 PM
lamotta isnt even close to being the best bodypuncher ever. simply going to the body alot doesnt make u a great bodypuncher, a great bodypuncher is accurate and sets up his punches downstairs skillfully. lamotta was busy to the body but he really used brute strenght and pressure to break ppl down rather than busting them up with accurate well timed body punching.

mccallum is always the first fighter on my mind when it comes to bodypunching, he would dissect his oponents with clever shots downstairs without leaving his head exposed and take punches in return.

i just watched mayweather-judah a few hours ago, thats a great example of effective bodypunching. mayweather in general is one of the best bodypunchers in recent years but ppl dont recognize it. they think someone winging a bunch of wide hooks to the body and hitting nothing but elbows is good bodypunching.

New England
06-11-2011, 02:14 PM
Its a shame Tyson let his body punching take a back seat, he looked like being a bit special in that department on his way up....

I still class him as a very good body puncher, he hurt alot of guys to the body and set things up from that but even i cant put him in the Frazier League, not even nearly...




absolutely

tyson was a bone breaker


i bet dudes pissed blood and all that good stuff when he was done with them
scary power

he knocked lots of guys out by setting them up to the body and getting their hands to drop as well



if his fights in his prime were longer we would have seen his opponents wearing down from the body work as well, instead of just covering their ribs while a quick kayo punch comes up top

New England
06-11-2011, 02:23 PM
lamotta isnt even close to being the best bodypuncher ever. simply going to the body alot doesnt make u a great bodypuncher, a great bodypuncher is accurate and sets up his punches downstairs skillfully. lamotta was busy to the body but he really used brute strenght and pressure to break ppl down rather than busting them up with accurate well timed body punching.

mccallum is always the first fighter on my mind when it comes to bodypunching, he would dissect his oponents with clever shots downstairs without leaving his head exposed and take punches in return.

i just watched mayweather-judah a few hours ago, thats a great example of effective bodypunching. mayweather in general is one of the best bodypunchers in recent years but ppl dont recognize it. they think someone winging a bunch of wide hooks to the body and hitting nothing but elbows is good bodypunching.


body punching is about breaking a man down and limiting his legs

mayweather doesn't really fight in the traditional sense of a break you down type body puncher


yes, he's effective with it because he's mastered distance


but to dismiss lamotta's bodypunching and cite mayweather's as more effective is pretty ridiculous


who has mayweather broken down?
lamotta gave ray robinson fits, bro
he beat him in his prime.



you want to know how effectively mayweather's body punches wear a man down?
he couldn't stop juan manuel marquez, a career FW



mayweather's just not active or close enough for the majority of his fights (especially early to the middle of the fight, when you must invest in the body to have it's effect show up later in the fight,) for me to consider him anywhere close to "the greatest body puncher ever"

especially after discounting lamotta lol

#1Assassin
06-11-2011, 02:42 PM
body punching is about breaking a man down and limiting his legs mayweather doesn't really fight in the traditional sense of a break you down type body puncher yes, he's effective with it because he's mastered distance but to dismiss lamotta's bodypunching and cite mayweather's as more effective is pretty ridiculous who has mayweather broken down? lamotta gave ray robinson fits, bro he beat him in his prime. you want to know how effectively mayweather's body punches wear a man down? he couldn't stop juan manuel marquez, a career FW mayweather's just not active or close enough for the majority of his fights (especially early to the middle of the fight, when you must invest in the body to have it's effect show up later in the fight,) for me to consider him anywhere close to "the greatest body puncher ever" especially after discounting lamotta lol

i never said mayweather is a better bodypuncher than lamotta. i said mccallum is a better bodypuncher than lamotta. i said floyd is one of the best bodypunchers in recent years.

i only mentioned floyd bcuz alot of ppl arent as familiar as they should with mccallum meanwhile everyone seen floyd fight. i just watched floyd fight judah like two hours ago and was specificly impressed with his bodypunching which was fresh in my mind when i read this thread, it was nothing but an example.

and btw bodypunching is about hitting ppl in the body (duh) which is one of many ways to break someone down. lamotta broke ppl down with pressure as much as his bodypunching, pressure doesnt count as bodypunching. floyd doesnt pressure his oponents but that doesnt make his bodypunchbing less impressive in its own right.

i primarily discount lamotta bcuz he left his face wide open when he went to the body, if he didnt have such a great chin he wouldnt have been able to get away with that and he still lost fights bcuz of it. a truly great bodypuncher or jabber or left hooker or whatever finds a way to land his blows without getting hit. i dont consider face first brawlers the best bodypunchers, i will always favor guys like mccallum and duran who can do the same work without taking punches in return.

B.U.R.N.E.R
06-11-2011, 04:45 PM
The fan in me wants to say Barerra or Mayweather but its Mike McCallum. They didnt call him the body snatcher just because it sounded good.

IronDanHamza
06-11-2011, 04:54 PM
The fan in me wants to say Barerra or Mayweather but its Mike McCallum. They didnt call him the body snatcher just because it sounded good.

Mayweather can certainly rip a body shot when he choses to but we are talking accorss the entire history of Boxing which is incredibely deep.

Mayweather doesn't belong in this discussion at all. Fan or not.

The Surgeon
06-11-2011, 05:01 PM
Mayweather can certainly rip a body shot when he choses to but we are talking accorss the entire history of Boxing which is incredibely deep. Mayweather doesn't belong in this discussion at all. Fan or not. Im with u Dan, Floyd has a great stiff left to the body, can whip the right in and is sneaky on the inside too but there is, when u consider the great depth of body punchers across HISTORY, no room for Floyd Mayweather as a consideration

The Surgeon
06-11-2011, 05:07 PM
absolutely tyson was a bone breaker i bet dudes pissed blood and all that good stuff when he was done with them scary power he knocked lots of guys out by setting them up to the body and getting their hands to drop as well if his fights in his prime were longer we would have seen his opponents wearing down from the body work as well, instead of just covering their ribs while a quick kayo punch comes up top Im just lookin at ur sig there NE and thought id mention G-man, Clearly not an ATG body blaster but he was mean down there and dosnt get much credit for it.

And yeah u raise a fair point, Tysons Body work often didnt get the chance to take effect or even get going! Boom! Game Over lol

B.U.R.N.E.R
06-11-2011, 05:08 PM
Mayweather can certainly rip a body shot when he choses to but we are talking accorss the entire history of Boxing which is incredibely deep.

Mayweather doesn't belong in this discussion at all. Fan or not.

I wouldnt go that far. Hes an underrated body puncher. Its an aspect of his game that is way too overlooked. Hes clearly not the best ever in that category but I cant see a list of 50 Top body punchers and Little Floyd not making it. No way.

Off topic some more fighters whose body attack is too underrated is Hatton and Mickey Ward.

The Surgeon
06-11-2011, 05:10 PM
He's a great body puncher, no question. His fight with Tyrell Biggs was a body punching exhibition. *Urrrrrgh, uhhhh!* Woman gestures lol

IronDanHamza
06-11-2011, 05:16 PM
I wouldnt go that far. Hes an underrated body puncher. Its an aspect of his game that is way too overlooked. Hes clearly not the best ever in that category but I cant see a list of 50 Top body punchers and Little Floyd not making it. No way.

Off topic some more fighters whose body attack is too underrated is Hatton and Mickey Ward.

I'm going to have to strongly but respectively disagree on that notion.

Floyd Mayweather is a good body puncher and an underrated body puncher.

But there is simply no way he is within the Top 50 Body punchers of all time.

As for Hatton and Ward, both are pretty good body punchers but nothing special IMO.

Ward's left hook to the body was good but a little overrated in my honest opinion.

IronDanHamza
06-11-2011, 05:19 PM
*Urrrrrgh, uhhhh!* Woman gestures lol

I have a long playlist of many many fights being played throughout the day if I'm in the house.

Tyson - Biggs is one of them.

You can genuinely hear Biggs making those 'woman like gestures :lol1:

Classic Mike.

B.U.R.N.E.R
06-11-2011, 05:22 PM
Crap howd I forget Chavez.

:pat:

Bob Fitzsimmons as well. Heck what about Gerald McClellan. He was stopping dudes in the first round with that left hook to the body.

I might be in the minority but when a fighter commits to the body I love it. Seems kind of old school imo. Might explain why I have been on my Chavez Jr high lately kid attacked Zbiks body like an old vet. Zbiks hands and feet were too fast so the kid chopped him up to the body took his legs from him.

I just thought of something else. You know how fighters drop their hands and let their opponents punch them in the face? Has any fighter ever tried to do that but by letting them punch them in the body? If so please tell me so i can watch that lol

Steak
06-11-2011, 05:44 PM
Carlos Palomino hit the body the hardest p4p.

Chavez consistantly broke opponents down the body better than almost anyone else, and could mix it into his overall offense so smoothly. rare to see opponents actually get thrown out of the ring by a body shot.

McCallum was one of the best at sneaking in body shots around the guard while not getting tagged.

LaMotta was one of the most persistant body attackers

guys that get overlooked a litte for their body attack...Thomas Hearns, Roy Jones, Whitaker and Ray Robinson. imo Robinson's second best punch was his right hook to the body, damn he could get some leverage behind it.
Roberto Duran is one I don't think has been mentioned yet. definitely. A respectable share of his knockouts came primarily from body punches, but theyre overlooked sometimes. He used an effective body attack in every one of his significant victories.

SCtrojansbaby
06-11-2011, 06:05 PM
Im not taking anything away from Roy, he could go to the body. But it wasn't his best asset and he rarely used it to soften an opponent up rather relying on his incredible speed and reflexes to get the job done. Great body puncher break a man down by going to the body, and as you said, Jones simply can't be considered among those who did that as their bread and butter.


LOL you need to go back and watch some fights Roy destroyed guys with his body attack. The signature combos he Roy used to fight off the ropes always featured 2-3 HARD body shots and if his opponent tried to force the action and make it an inside fight Roy almost went exclusively to the body.

Most top body puncher through 100+ body punches a fight, Roy does equal damage just landing 20 of them.

The Smash
06-11-2011, 06:07 PM
Tommy Hearns had a hellacious left hook to the body.

JAB5239
06-11-2011, 07:16 PM
LOL you need to go back and watch some fights Roy destroyed guys with his body attack. The signature combos he Roy used to fight off the ropes always featured 2-3 HARD body shots and if his opponent tried to force the action and make it an inside fight Roy almost went exclusively to the body.

Most top body puncher through 100+ body punches a fight, Roy does equal damage just landing 20 of them.

Besides the one punch Hill fight, who was Roy "destroying" with his body punching? Please, educate me. :lol1:

JAB5239
06-11-2011, 07:18 PM
Tommy Hearns had a hellacious left hook to the body.

He's another fighter who could have been among the best yet shouldn't be because of the consistency of his attack. When he focused on it though the guy could chop down tree's.

SCtrojansbaby
06-11-2011, 08:50 PM
Besides the one punch Hill fight, who was Roy "destroying" with his body punching? Please, educate me. :lol1:

Off the top of my head

Clinton Woods
Bernard Hopkins
Merqi Sosa
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
Montel Griffin 1
Glen Kelly
Fernando Castro

JAB5239
06-11-2011, 09:21 PM
Off the top of my head

Clinton Woods
Bernard Hopkins
Merqi Sosa
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
Montel Griffin 1
Glen Kelly
Fernando Castro

Wow, thats a pretty big list. You should have no problem picking out rounds where Jones used a concentrated body attack to soften his opponents up. Of course you won't because you can't. As I've said, Jones relied on speed and reflexes and threw the occasionally sensational body shots.

How many body punches can you count in this video?

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FWcY0tt0xQo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

SCtrojansbaby
06-11-2011, 09:31 PM
LOL as I said earlier Jones doesn't need to throw a ton of body shots he can be just as effective landing 5-10 a round like he did against Sosa

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RztFkl61-4I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

JAB5239
06-11-2011, 11:06 PM
LOL as I said earlier Jones doesn't need to throw a ton of body shots he can be just as effective landing 5-10 a round like he did against Sosa


And you're missing the point of being a great body puncher...it is to break an opponent down. Jones breaks opponents down with his speed, he doesn't wear them out to the body which is exactly why 5-10 body punches a fight doesn't make him great at that aspect. He was capable and at times landed some excellent punches downstairs, but he is no where close to the best body punchers ever. How do you even think he can compare to the likes of Chavez, Duran and Arguello.....its ludicrous.

Terry A
06-12-2011, 05:01 AM
Wow, thats a pretty big list. You should have no problem picking out rounds where Jones used a concentrated body attack to soften his opponents up. Of course you won't because you can't. As I've said, Jones relied on speed and reflexes and threw the occasionally sensational body shots.

How many body punches can you count in this video?

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FWcY0tt0xQo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


No matter how many times I watch that video, it's always incredible. How in the world does anyone stand all the heat that RJ in his prime fired?

Thanks for posting it.

Rockin'
06-12-2011, 05:05 AM
I'd put the Body Snatcher in front of Lamotta, McCallum was that good.

I also loved to watch Thomas Hearns when he'd go to work on a guys body, the most beautiful left hook to the body... it was like watching an artist at work............Rockin':boxing:

JAB5239
06-12-2011, 05:25 AM
I'd put the Body Snatcher in front of Lamotta, McCallum was that good.

I also loved to watch Thomas Hearns when he'd go to work on a guys body, the most beautiful left hook to the body... it was like watching an artist at work............Rockin':boxing:

If Hearns had more focus on the body he'd easily be up there with the best ever. Rarely do you see a guy with his length rip to the body like that that!

junior gong
06-12-2011, 05:33 AM
Mike McCallum was a brilliant body puncher, and although he doesnt seem too popular in these forums, Ricky Hatton deserves an honorable mention when talking about great body punchers. La Motta's body attack was relentless and for me its a toss up between him and McCallum as for who I would rate the highest.