View Full Version : How Great A Win Is John Ruiz For Roy Jones Jr?


Perfect Plex
06-08-2011, 12:58 PM
How much of a great win is this for Roy Jones? Whats yout take on it?

JAB5239
06-08-2011, 02:04 PM
How much of a great win is this for Roy Jones? Whats yout take on it?

Decent, but thats it. He beat a heavyweight contender who held a paper title.

Ziggy Stardust
06-08-2011, 02:05 PM
It's meaningless. A hum drum win over a fighter EVERYONE knew was by far the weakest of the Alphabeltholders.

Poet

BattlingNelson
06-08-2011, 04:17 PM
Probably his second best win after Toney. Beating a top HW was a very good win even though Ruiz, as poet pointed out, was the weakest beltholder he could challenge.

nomadman
06-08-2011, 06:33 PM
It was a pretty good win and Jones stepped up and made it look easy (which is difficult to do against Ruiz, whatever you may think of him as a fighter). I would rate the Toney and Hopkins wins above it, though.

Perfect Plex
06-08-2011, 06:40 PM
Ruiz Ranking When Jones Beat Him
#5

Ruiz's Pre Wins Before Jones Fight
-Julius Francis
-Jimmy Thunder
-Tony Tucker
-Evander Holyfield
-Kirk Johnson (32-0)

Ruiz's Post Wins After Jones Fight
-Hasim Rahman
-Fres Oquendo
-Andrew Golota
-Jameel McCline

young_robbed
06-08-2011, 07:34 PM
It's okay, but only "okay" because Jones was moving up.

bojangles1987
06-08-2011, 09:31 PM
It's impressive that he did so as easily as he did. Ruiz ended up being one of the better heavyweights post Lewis.

Just like Hopkins beating Pascal though, it was the accomplishment more than the opponent.

fitefanSHO
06-08-2011, 09:43 PM
Ruiz was a handpicked nobody, beating him did not make Jones a real Heavyweight CHAMPION. :sleeping:

Steak
06-08-2011, 09:58 PM
I wouldnt necessarily call it great at all.

but, lets be fair, it was a quality win. people **** on Ruiz, but the fact of the matter is that he was a top heavyweight for a solid 10 or so years, from the first Holyfield fight till Haye took him out not too long ago. granted, the division has been pretty terrible, but still.

Ruiz was very very clearly not the true HW champ, so you may as well throw that silly 'Roy Jones became HW champ' stat out the window. but, Ruiz was legitimately one of the best guys in the division, and when you combine Roy moving up in weight its a very solid win.

Scott9945
06-09-2011, 12:54 AM
It's impressive that he did so as easily as he did. Ruiz ended up being one of the better heavyweights post Lewis.

Just like Hopkins beating Pascal though, it was the accomplishment more than the opponent.

Yes. When a smallish light heavyweight easily beats a top 5 heavyweight, it is impressive.

Then again, relatively speaking, it wasn't as impressive as Billy Conn's KO loss in the first Joe Louis fight.

Ziggy Stardust
06-09-2011, 02:37 AM
people **** on Ruiz, but the fact of the matter is that he was a top heavyweight for a solid 10 or so years.

Ranked Heavyweight yes, top Heavyweight no. If not for the machinations of Don King, Ruiz wouldn't have cracked the top-5 at any point in his career. He got his rankings not for what he did in the ring but because he was King's only toehold in the Heavyweight division.

Poet

The Surgeon
06-09-2011, 06:51 AM
I rate it as a very good win, not because Ruiz was some killer - he wasnt! Though he was in the end a two time HW Belt holder so as bad as the division was/is he was one of the better ones and that in its self is alarming.

I rate it because Roy was outweighed so heavily, was a former MW champ and had completely skipped the CW division. A feat that hadnt be matched in over 100 years remember, tho as we all know Fitz did it for THE HW championship and not an ABC strap.
Lets not act as if it was a formality now because alot of people felt Roy couldnt live with the size and stregth, hw power. It was a fight, but in the end Jones made it look oh so easy. Very Impressive.


Still as Scott pointed out and i agree, not as impressive as Billy Conns losing effort against the Brown Bomber.....

IMDAZED
06-09-2011, 08:40 AM
I wouldnt necessarily call it great at all.

but, lets be fair, it was a quality win. people **** on Ruiz, but the fact of the matter is that he was a top heavyweight for a solid 10 or so years, from the first Holyfield fight till Haye took him out not too long ago. granted, the division has been pretty terrible, but still.

Ruiz was very very clearly not the true HW champ, so you may as well throw that silly 'Roy Jones became HW champ' stat out the window. but, Ruiz was legitimately one of the best guys in the division, and when you combine Roy moving up in weight its a very solid win.
Agreed. His last hurrah. That he moved up about 15lbs and was still outweighed by about 30lbs make it very impressive. I don't count the paper title because that's what it was and it's irrelevant. It doesn't take away fromt he feat as Ruiz was a top five heavy for a long time.

SCtrojansbaby
06-09-2011, 10:43 PM
A B+ level win considering up until that point Ruiz made everybody look bad and Roy completely DOMINATED him.

$BloodyNate$
06-09-2011, 11:01 PM
I'd actually give it an A. Only because it was a jump up to Heavyweight. Ain't no A+ though because it was the weakest belt holder. If he beat Lennox that would be an A+, but I think Ruiz alone is an A just because he was a midddleweight that went all the way up to heavyweight, skipped Crusierweight. That was a pretty gangsta as Hopkins would put it :boxing:

Terry A
06-10-2011, 01:24 AM
Roy Jones was my favorite fighter from the last 20 years so I was pretty darn happy when he won.
Ruiz was never an easy fight for anybody, let alone for someone jumping 2 weight classes UP to face him.

I thought it was his best win in his career. Toney & Hopkins were better AFTER they fought RJ. The Trinidad fight was his next biggest win, IMO.

The flip side is that the Ruiz fight was probably the last time Jones was at a peak. His career has been on skid row most of the time since then.

SCtrojansbaby
06-10-2011, 01:26 AM
Roy Jones was my favorite fighter from the last 20 years so I was pretty darn happy when he won.
Ruiz was never an easy fight for anybody, let alone for someone jumping 2 weight classes UP to face him.

I thought it was his best win in his career. Toney & Hopkins were better AFTER they fought RJ. The Trinidad fight was his next biggest win, IMO.

The flip side is that the Ruiz fight was probably the last time Jones was at a peak. His career has been on skid row most of the time since then.


LOL I think its time for you to stop posting

Terry A
06-10-2011, 01:34 AM
LOL I think its time for you to stop posting

Not quite yet SC.

You don't think that beating Felix Trinidad that close to his 3 losses wasn't big for him? If he would have lost that fight, he may have retired right there.
That win was mentally important for him.

Besides Ruiz, Toney or Hopkins, who do you think was his next biggest win?

TintaBoricua
06-10-2011, 03:08 AM
Not quite yet SC.

You don't think that beating Felix Trinidad that close to his 3 losses wasn't big for him? If he would have lost that fight, he may have retired right there.
That win was mentally important for him.

Besides Ruiz, Toney or Hopkins, who do you think was his next biggest win?

Trinidad was a big name, but that was nothing more than a fake revival of Jones' career. He vanished into obscurity after his three straight losses to try and rebuild himself and then came up and got a fight with Trinidad...who was coming back after 2 and a half years of inactivity...at 170 pounds! Tito's highest weight was at 160 where he fought guys like Hopkins and Joppy. After those losses he came back down to 154 to fight with Mayorga and Winky Wright.

That was not Trinidad. I never gave Jones credit for that win because I knew it was not going to be competitive from the moment it was signed.

To answer the question: What about Mike McCallum?

SCtrojansbaby
06-10-2011, 05:14 AM
Hopkins
Toney
Ruiz
Griffin
McCallum
Hill
Harding
Gonzalez
Del Valle
Sosa
Johnson
Tarver
Woods
Castro
Grant

All of them bigger wins then Trinidad

Ziggy Stardust
06-10-2011, 01:56 PM
LOL I think its time for you to stop posting

I think it's time for you to STFU.

Ziggy Stardust
06-10-2011, 02:02 PM
Not quite yet SC.

You don't think that beating Felix Trinidad that close to his 3 losses wasn't big for him? If he would have lost that fight, he may have retired right there.
That win was mentally important for him.

Besides Ruiz, Toney or Hopkins, who do you think was his next biggest win?

Just ignore Trojanman. He's the section's village idiot anyway.

The problem with the Tito fight is that while it may well have been huge for Jones on a personal level it wasn't big in the overall scheme of things. Worse, it gave a misleading impression of what Jones still had left. I remember in the aftermath of the fight Jones fans were trumpeting that "the old Roy was back" when in truth it was just Old Roy fighting an opponent with even less left in the tank than Jones had.

Poet

Terry A
06-10-2011, 02:46 PM
Just ignore Trojanman. He's the section's village idiot anyway.

The problem with the Tito fight is that while it may well have been huge for Jones on a personal level it wasn't big in the overall scheme of things. Worse, it gave a misleading impression of what Jones still had left. I remember in the aftermath of the fight Jones fans were trumpeting that "the old Roy was back" when in truth it was just Old Roy fighting an opponent with even less left in the tank than Jones had.

Poet

Poet, I was thinking what an important win the Trinidad fight was for Jones at that time in his career, but you correctly pointed out something that I didn't even think about. That win over Tito prompted Jones to think he had more left then he really did and, in effect, caused him to keep getting beat on.
I remember how much I wanted Jones to win that fight so that he would fight on & we'd get to see him in action more times. Upon reflection, it may have been better had he lost that fight.
I don't know how I missed that in the first place.

Thanks for writing another insightful post.

Ziggy Stardust
06-10-2011, 02:56 PM
Poet, I was thinking what an important win the Trinidad fight was for Jones at that time in his career, but you correctly pointed out something that I didn't even think about. That win over Tito prompted Jones to think he had more left then he really did and, in effect, caused him to keep getting beat on.
I remember how much I wanted Jones to win that fight so that he would fight on & we'd get to see him in action more times. Upon reflection, it may have been better had he lost that fight.
I don't know how I missed that in the first place.

Thanks for writing another insightful post.

Thanks for the kind words! I was thinking more in terms of fan perception but you're quite right about Jones drawing the same wrong conclusions.....to the detriment of his health. It kind of proves that a fighter's capacity for self-deception is right up there with that of their hard-core fans. It reminds me of when the hard-core Ali fans swore up and down that Ali was going to beat Holmes.....and I think Ali believed it too. You can fool yourself, you can fool your fans, but you can't fool Father Time.....he ain't buying it.

Poet

Terry A
06-10-2011, 03:37 PM
It kind of proves that a fighter's capacity for self-deception is right up there with that of their hard-core fans. It reminds me of when the hard-core Ali fans swore up and down that Ali was going to beat Holmes.....and I think Ali believed it too. You can fool yourself, you can fool your fans, but you can't fool Father Time.....he ain't buying it.

Poet[/COLOR][/QUOTE]


I hate to admit this publically, but I gotta tell the truth. When Ali fought Holmes, my head says Holmes has an easy night because Ali was so advanced in age & his skills were so degraded. But in my heart, I wanted Ali to pull out yet another miracle. Nothing against Larry, I actually liked him a lot. But come on, this was Muhammad Ali! We grew up watching him beat Frazier, Norton, Foreman. You could never bet against him.

I remember watching the first few rounds and Ali looked so bad that I was trying to figure out if Ali was acting that bad so as to lull Holmes down and then after a few rounds, Ali would suddenly flip some kind of secret turbo-charge switch and do another Foreman on Holmes.

Instead, it just got worse. The great Muhammad Ali was empty. When it's gone, it's gone.

THE REED™
06-10-2011, 03:39 PM
It's meaningless. A hum drum win over a fighter EVERYONE knew was by far the weakest of the Alphabeltholders.

Poet

Meaningless eh.





























Yeah.

Ziggy Stardust
06-10-2011, 03:48 PM
Meaningless eh.

Yeah.

Yeah. It would be like Michael Spinks moving up and lifting a belt from Trevor Berbeck rather than Larry Holmes. Everyone would be saying "So fvcking what? It's Trevor Berbeck." Same thing with Ruiz. It doesn't hurt Jones but it doesn't do a damn thing for his legacy either. Did anyone have any doubts Jones would beat Ruiz? I sure as hell didn't and I expected it to be easy and it was: It was John Fvcking Ruiz ffs.

Poet

THE REED™
06-10-2011, 03:49 PM
Sure thing.

Ziggy Stardust
06-10-2011, 03:51 PM
Sure thing.

Come on Reed: Did YOU have any doubts Jones was gonna cruise in that fight?

Poet

THE REED™
06-10-2011, 03:53 PM
Come on Reed: Did YOU have any doubts Jones was gonna cruise in that fight?

Poet

It doesn't matter who I think will win... You still get credit for it.

I think Floyd is going to dominate Pac... just because I think that, when he does it.. he still gets ****in credit for it, FFS.

Same thing with Ortiz... Floyds gonna cruise in that fight... he still gets credit.

Sure, Ruiz was a title holder... Roy was also a LHW, who came from MW.. and was still outweighed by 30lbs on fight night.

It's not JUST who he faced, but him coming from MW to do it.

How MUCH credit can be debated... MEANINGLESS, is ridiculous to me.

THE REED™
06-10-2011, 03:54 PM
The Ruiz win, and the Prince Badi Ajamu win are basically equals.

It's ridiculous to even type it.

Ziggy Stardust
06-10-2011, 04:01 PM
It doesn't matter who I think will win... You still get credit for it.

I think Floyd is going to dominate Pac... just because I think that, when he does it.. he still gets ****in credit for it, FFS.

Same thing with Ortiz... Floyds gonna cruise in that fight... he still gets credit.

Sure, Ruiz was a title holder... Roy was also a LHW, who came from MW.. and was still outweighed by 30lbs on fight night.

It's not JUST who he faced, but him coming from MW to do it.

How MUCH credit can be debated... MEANINGLESS, is ridiculous to me.

How the hell does winning easily against a fighter you're EXPECTED to win against easily enhance your legacy? To my mind it doesn't hurt you but doesn't help you either......you're simply doing what's expected and no more.

As for the weight thing. People put WAY to much stock in weight. I'm sorry but bigger does NOT equal better. There have been FAR too many cases over the course of boxing history were the noticably smaller guy destroys the bigger fighter. And Jones hadn't been a Middleweight for YEARS. He had been well established at Light-Heavy for years and was not a Middleweight anymore.

Poet

THE REED™
06-10-2011, 04:03 PM
Alright bro, Ill leave you to your opinion...debating the Ruiz win as absolutely meaningless is a waste of time to me.

Ziggy Stardust
06-10-2011, 04:04 PM
Same thing with Ortiz... Floyds gonna cruise in that fight... he still gets credit.

Uh......no. Ortiz in NOT an opponent one gets credit for beating.....Not when you're a fighter with the status Mayweather has.

Poet