View Full Version : Rating Joe Gans


JAB5239
06-06-2011, 10:40 PM
Gans is a fighter I've always ranked in the top 3 lightweights all time in spite of not knowing much about his competition. My reasoning was that no way does a black man at that time build such an incredible record and the testimonials of his incredible skills. I can take ranking Gans, Leonard and Duran in any order (I personally rank Leonard first based on his incredible lightweight resume) but the more I learn about Gans the more impressed I am with his competition and dominance. In your opinion should Gans rate over Leonard? Was he more dominant than Duran? In what order do you rank the 3 of them and why?

talip bin osman
06-06-2011, 11:32 PM
joe gans has the advantage of being in a tougher era... (i know its not a proper criteria) but being in a tougher era wherein you have to fight once or twice every week, travel by train, then fight on the same day against fellow luminaries like battling nelson, langford, walcott, sullivan for 40 rounds under the scorching sun is something that cant be ignored...

JAB5239
06-06-2011, 11:47 PM
joe gans has the advantage of being in a tougher era... (i know its not a proper criteria) but being in a tougher era wherein you have to fight once or twice every week, travel by train, then fight on the same day against fellow luminaries like battling nelson, langford, walcott, sullivan for 40 rounds under the scorching sun is something that cant be ignored...

Very true. But Benny Leonard also fought under these conditions. I think its going to take a lot more research to separate the two and come to a conclusive answer. At least for me.

Scott9945
06-07-2011, 12:01 AM
Of all the old time footage (pre 1920) I've watched, nobody has impressed me more than Gans. He looks like a guy who you can plug into any era and still be in the top two lightweights.

talip bin osman
06-07-2011, 12:03 AM
Very true. But Benny Leonard also fought under these conditions. I think its going to take a lot more research to separate the two and come to a conclusive answer. At least for me.

i agree... but u know what jab? when reading some newspaper accounts of fights like in gans' era, i cant help but be skeptical about these oldskool reporters whether they are exaggerating or not...

i guess thats the problem every historian faces becoz they just rely on eyewitness accounts...:)

Barn
06-07-2011, 03:48 AM
I have Gans 11 P4P. Second and LW, following B. Leonard.

He's a fighter I love watching, some of the things he does are real clever but, I've never seen before.

JAB5239
06-07-2011, 04:43 AM
I have Gans 11 P4P. Second and LW, following B. Leonard.

He's a fighter I love watching, some of the things he does are real clever but, I've never seen before.

I love Duran, but it seems like these two are leaving him in the just the more you know about them.

IronDanHamza
06-07-2011, 05:45 PM
I think Gans is an arguable Top 10 ATG and a unquestionably Top 5 LW.

BattlingNelson
06-07-2011, 06:06 PM
Very true. But Benny Leonard also fought under these conditions. I think its going to take a lot more research to separate the two and come to a conclusive answer. At least for me.
Leonard never fought a 45 round fight. That sort of distance fights was over at his day as far as I know. I dont even think he did a 20 rounder.


As for the question well Gans record kinda speaks for itself, but it is worth noting that the fact that Gans was black meant that he sometimes/often had to carry his opponents to be able to get work ie. he had to not look too dominant. I think I also read somewhere that he threw a fight at one time to be able to get a titleshot or something. I'm sure some in this forum kknows more about this than I do though.

JAB5239
06-07-2011, 06:25 PM
Leonard never fought a 45 round fight. That sort of distance fights was over at his day as far as I know. I dont even think he did a 20 rounder.


As for the question well Gans record kinda speaks for itself, but it is worth noting that the fact that Gans was black meant that he sometimes/often had to carry his opponents to be able to get work ie. he had to not look too dominant. I think I also read somewhere that he threw a fight at one time to be able to get a titleshot or something. I'm sure some in this forum kknows more about this than I do though.

He threw the fight with Terry McGovern in order to get a rematch with Frank Erne. McGovern would never grant Gans a rematch.

BattlingNelson
06-07-2011, 06:42 PM
He threw the fight with Terry McGovern in order to get a rematch with Frank Erne. McGovern would never grant Gans a rematch.
Yep that's the one Jab. McGovern. :fing02: