View Full Version : Everyone Agree, Pernell Whitaker Is Greater Than Chavez?


Perfect Plex
06-06-2011, 03:44 PM
I think so, does everyone agree with my statment. If not explain?

IronDanHamza
06-06-2011, 04:01 PM
I agree...

young_robbed
06-06-2011, 04:12 PM
yep. I would agree too.

Pastrano
06-06-2011, 05:15 PM
Nope, definitely not. Whitaker was a greater defensive fighter than Chavez, but when all things are taken into consideration, Chavez had a better record and he was a more complete fighter. Main difference is, Chavez HAD power. He also beat Meldrick Taylor, whom Whitaker either avoided or just never got to fight, but he should be glad he never did in Meldrick's prime. Chavez's prime was already at its end when he fought Sweet Pea. And as we know, it was a stylistic nightmare-matchup for JCC. His compatriot Ramirez beat Whitaker only because Whitaker for some reason refused to fight in that match.:p

IronDanHamza
06-06-2011, 05:17 PM
Nope, definitely not. Whitaker was a greater defensive fighter than Chavez, but when all things are taken into consideration, Chavez had a better record and he was a more complete fighter. Main difference is, Chavez HAD power. He also beat Meldrick Taylor, whom Whitaker either avoided or just never got to fight, but he should be glad he never did in Meldrick's prime. Chavez's prime was already at its end when he fought Sweet Pea. And as we know, it was a stylistic nightmare-matchup for JCC. His compatriot Ramirez beat Whitaker only because Whitaker for some reason refused to fight in that match.:p

No suprises here.

Remarkabley poor post.

Barn
06-06-2011, 05:23 PM
I agree whole heartedly. Pea around 17, Chavez around 35.

The Surgeon
06-06-2011, 05:41 PM
For me Pea is definately the greater fighter and im big on Chavez.....

SBleeder
06-06-2011, 05:54 PM
Completely agree.

Whitaker is in my top 15, Chavez barely top 25.

Steak
06-06-2011, 06:13 PM
of course. Chavez was an outstanding fighter, but Whitaker just overall was flat out more accomplished, not to mention he beat Chavez when they fought.

Pastrano
06-06-2011, 07:38 PM
No suprises here.

Remarkabley poor post.

Yes, if you are a Pernellhugger that is. Fortunately I am not.

joseph5620
06-06-2011, 07:55 PM
Yes, if you are a Pernellhugger that is. Fortunately I am not.

But unfortunately you're a biased hater and history revisionists..No different from Sonny.

Boxing Bob
06-06-2011, 08:54 PM
H2H I think Whitaker could beat Chavez at any point of their careers. Resume wise its very close with maybe a slight edge to Chavez. Pastrano, if you don't think Pea got robbed vs Ramirez then I'm losing all respect for you. Do you really believe that bull***** you posted or are you anti- American?

young_robbed
06-06-2011, 09:14 PM
Yes, if you are a Pernellhugger that is. Fortunately I am not.

No, that was an awful post. :bs2:

JAB5239
06-06-2011, 09:18 PM
Yes, if you are a Pernellhugger that is. Fortunately I am not.

I can't stand watching Whitaker. Didn't really liked how he acted either. But there is no doubt in my mind he rates higher than JCC. He's the better fighter with the better accomplishments.

IronDanHamza
06-06-2011, 09:49 PM
Yes, if you are a Pernellhugger that is. Fortunately I am not.

There are biased people then there are people who claim Whitaker-Ramirez 1 wasn't a robbery.

You are the latter.

$BloodyNate$
06-06-2011, 10:35 PM
Totally different level of fighter where talking about here. I actually tend to feel Chavez is alil overrated, but not too much, mostly only by his fans.

LMAO at "Pernell is lucky he didn't fight a prime Melderick Taylor. That's just another easy comfortable decision win by like 3-4 rounds or even more for Pernell.

Pastrano
06-07-2011, 10:28 AM
No, that was an awful post. :bs2:

There are biased people then there are people who claim Whitaker-Ramirez 1 wasn't a robbery.

You are the latter.

Idiots. Piss off. You will choke anyone's voice which says anything else but that Whitaker was a GOD! Piss off once again.

IMDAZED
06-07-2011, 10:38 AM
of course. Chavez was an outstanding fighter, but Whitaker just overall was flat out more accomplished, not to mention he beat Chavez when they fought.

End thread.

studentofthegam
06-07-2011, 04:07 PM
I think Chavez gets overrated in general. Of couse I agree Whitaker is ranked higher but the more I watch Chavez the more respect I have for his determination. But this isnt a toughness ranking and on skill and impressiveness Sweet Pea is that guy.

IronDanHamza
06-07-2011, 05:38 PM
Idiots. Piss off. You will choke anyone's voice which says anything else but that Whitaker was a GOD! Piss off once again.

I have addressed this a million times.

Why do you presume anyone who praises Whitaker is a Whitaker nuthugger?

But when I say Carlos Ortiz should be ranked higher than him at Lightweight you praise me?

A Whitaker nuthugger, I am not.

Call me a Monzon or Arguello nuthugger than I understand the argument but Whitaker? I am not.

Ziggy Stardust
06-07-2011, 06:35 PM
I'm waiting for Trojanman to make an appearance telling us how Whitaker isn't an ATG :chuckle9:

Poet

sweetpea87
06-07-2011, 06:36 PM
Whitaker is greater than everyone.

The Surgeon
06-07-2011, 06:39 PM
Whitaker is greater than everyone.

That u Max???

The Surgeon
06-07-2011, 06:41 PM
I'm waiting for Trojanman to make an appearance telling us how Whitaker isn't an ATG :chuckle9:

Poet

Stop it. Just stop it. No such person can actually exist.......... can they!?

Ziggy Stardust
06-07-2011, 07:06 PM
Stop it. Just stop it. No such person can actually exist.......... can they!?

Sadly, it's true.....it boils down to him being another butt-hurt Chavez fan who's still pissed off that Sweet Pea pwned his idol :rolleyes9:

Poet

young_robbed
06-07-2011, 07:07 PM
Idiots. Piss off. You will choke anyone's voice which says anything else but that Whitaker was a GOD! Piss off once again.

Please tell me when I said Whitaker was a god. Because everyone here is just saying Pernell is better then Chavez. and he is. You're probably one of the only ones that thinks otherwise.

So **** off.

Vadrigar.
06-07-2011, 07:09 PM
Apart from everything else Whitaker has beaten Chavez, therefore he is greater.

Ziggy Stardust
06-07-2011, 07:09 PM
Please tell me when I said Whitaker was a god. Because everyone here is just saying Pernell is better then Chavez. and he is. You're probably one of the only ones that thinks otherwise.

So **** off.

If Whitaker was white Pastrano would be touting him as the GOAT :chuckle9:

Poet

IronDanHamza
06-07-2011, 07:09 PM
Please tell me when I said Whitaker was a god. Because everyone here is just saying Pernell is better then Chavez. and he is. You're probably one of the only ones that thinks otherwise.

So **** off.

Anyone that says Whitaker is a good fighter is a Whitaker nuthugger to him.

Same goes for Hagler.

The guy actualy tries to claim Whitaker wasn't robbed against Ramirez in the first fight.

That's the kind of level we are talking about here.

jtiger777
06-07-2011, 07:19 PM
Sweet pea is greater imo but chavez was a freakin beast and an atg

and pernell beat him fair n square while he was still at the top of his game!!!!

Wild Blue Yonda
06-07-2011, 08:32 PM
I think there is at least a case for Chavez, here, but then I've always been a huge admirer of long-drawn unbeaten streaks (consistency, IMO, is immensely under-rated in how difficult it can be to pull off at the top level), especially the kind which sees you do in several excellent (if not quite all-time great) rivals, the likes of Rosario, Mayweather, Ramirez, Camacho & co, all of whom fell to Chavez.

That said, Whitaker bested him mighty easily head-to-head, & although neither were at their absolute best for that fight (each peaked as 135lbers, IMO), the fight was a little more advantageous to Whitaker going in. Still, Sweet Pea had the beating of JC Superstar at any weight IMO, was the better pure fighter & would've defeated more legends through history. I wouldn't say he accomplished more than Chavez did, however. This doesn't tell the whole story mind, but Chavez had a winning run at one stage which was not all that far off double the amount of fights which composes Whitaker's entire career! Food for thought, if nothing else.

I would have to say Whitaker is greater, but Chavez has something of a case to be rated higher, at least if you focus heavily on accolades.

joseph5620
06-07-2011, 09:23 PM
I think there is at least a case for Chavez, here, but then I've always been a huge admirer of long-drawn unbeaten streaks (consistency, IMO, is immensely under-rated in how difficult it can be to pull off at the top level), especially the kind which sees you do in several excellent (if not quite all-time great) rivals, the likes of Rosario, Mayweather, Ramirez, Camacho & co, all of whom fell to Chavez.

That said, Whitaker bested him mighty easily head-to-head, & although neither were at their absolute best for that fight (each peaked as 135lbers, IMO), the fight was a little more advantageous to Whitaker going in. Still, Sweet Pea had the beating of JC Superstar at any weight IMO, was the better pure fighter & would've defeated more legends through history. I wouldn't say he accomplished more than Chavez did, however. This doesn't tell the whole story mind, but Chavez had a winning run at one stage which was not all that far off double the amount of fights which composes Whitaker's entire career! Food for thought, if nothing else.

I would have to say Whitaker is greater, but Chavez has something of a case to be rated

higher, at least if you focus heavily on accolades.




Well thought out great post. One thing I'll add in Whitaker's favor is that his career progressed at a much faster rate than Chavez. I believe Whitaker fought for the title after only 14 fights. And he should have won a wide decision regardless of Pastrano's ridiculous view on it. With that said, Chavez may have had more fights but Whitaker had a far better quality of opponents ratio.

SCtrojansbaby
06-07-2011, 10:06 PM
LOL Pernell dreams of being half the fighter Chavez was

JAB5239
06-07-2011, 10:12 PM
LOL Pernell dreams of being half the fighter Chavez was

Yet he kicked his ass for 12 rounds. Go figure.

SCtrojansbaby
06-07-2011, 10:16 PM
Yet he kicked his ass for 12 rounds. Go figure.

Yep Chavez moved up in weight and still Pernell couldn't beat him

JAB5239
06-07-2011, 10:26 PM
Yep Chavez moved up in weight and still Pernell couldn't beat him

Kicking his ass and not getting the decision are two vastly different things. And forget about that whole moving up thing like Pea had some sort of advantage. They were both at 135 when they were each 20 years old so their growth was similar. In top of that JCC had the height advantage. :lol1:

crold1
06-07-2011, 10:37 PM
Kicking his ass and not getting the decision are two vastly different things. And forget about that whole moving up thing like Pea had some sort of advantage. They were both at 135 when they were each 20 years old so their growth was similar. In top of that JCC had the height advantage. :lol1:

Let's also remember Pea had been at 47 all of ONE fight prior, Chavez had been a class above Whitaker (40 over 35) for years before Pea stopped off at 40 for a couple of fights AND they fought at a catchweight in the Alamodome. Moved up is a technicality. Pea clowning Chavez for a solid eight or nine of 12 rounds was the reality.

Chavez controlled that show (which is why Whitaker walked on HBO for a night to make it). If he had wanted it at 40, Pea would have fought him there. Chavez wanted to win that 4th.

Ziggy Stardust
06-07-2011, 10:38 PM
Stop it. Just stop it. No such person can actually exist.......... can they!?

Ahem. I was saying:
LOL Pernell dreams of being half the fighter Chavez was

Wild Blue Yonda
06-08-2011, 04:45 AM
Well thought out great post. One thing I'll add in Whitaker's favor is that his career progressed at a much faster rate than Chavez. I believe Whitaker fought for the title after only 14 fights. And he should have won a wide decision regardless of Pastrano's ridiculous view on it. With that said, Chavez may have had more fights but Whitaker had a far better quality of opponents ratio.

Of course, in fairness to Chavez, your quality of opponent ratio has to drop if you have a career spanning 100-plus bouts, compared with Whitaker's 40-odd. However, thats a fine point about Whitakers career progression being much swifter and though I was aware of it, it escaped my memory this time. Nice catch, although again in Chavez's defense, making it as an unknown from Mexico doesnt lend itself to the same career trajectory as an Olympic-pedigree gold medallist from an all-time US team. Not that such a thing detracts from Whitakers rapid advancement --- that was excellent. I just think Chavez never had the same chance to prove such greatness, even if he couldve done no grander with the opportunity.

RubenSonny
06-08-2011, 04:53 AM
Half of Chavez undefeated streak were no hopers, why should he get credit for that? Whitaker is clearly the greater fighter.

Steak
06-08-2011, 05:21 PM
Half of Chavez undefeated streak were no hopers, why should he get credit for that? Whitaker is clearly the greater fighter.

Chavez fought a lot of no hopers, but also during his undefeated streak he beat over 15 quality opponents. no easy feat, and he does deserve credit for that.

but the thing that kind of seals it for Whitaker is that Whitaker too should have been undefeated, up till at least the first Rivera fight. I dont think theres any doubt that Whitaker should have beaten Ramirez and Chavez and just got terrible decisions. and Whitaker beat a huge amount of top competition during that period.

Whitaker didnt have as many title defenses at Lightweight as certain other lightweight champs, but if you analyze it pretty much every single title defense of his was over good or great competition.

Wild Blue Yonda
06-08-2011, 08:46 PM
The only fights Whitaker clearly lost, in my book, were Trinidad & Bojorquez, at the absolute finish line of his tattered career.

He at best was marginally out-pointed by a younger, fresher De La Hoya (I've usually had Whitaker losing by one point, or thereabouts), I thought he squeaked by Rivera first-time out, & he obviously won fights with Ramirez & Chavez going away.

The_Demon
06-09-2011, 10:49 AM
Of course Whitaker is the greater fighter,anybody who says otherwise clearly has an agenda