View Full Version : Has There Ever Been Worst USA Heavyweight's Than Today?


Perfect Plex
06-03-2011, 07:59 PM
Well? Has USA ever had as bad a HW division as this?

The best USA Heavyweights are the following.

The Top Tier USA Heavyweights
-Eddie Chambers
-Chris Arreola
-Tony Thomspon
-Kevin Johnson

Rest Of USA Heavyweights
-Franklin Lawrence
-Evander Holyfield
-Ray Austin
-Hasim Rahman
-Cedric Boswell
-Michael Grant
-Shannon Briggs
-Oliver McCall
-Derric Rossy
-James Toney
-Seth Mitchell
-Maurice Harris
-Jason Estrada
-Monte Barrett
-Johnathon Banks
-Chazz Witherspoon
-Dominick Guinn
-Travis Walker
-DaVarryl Williamson
-Jason Gavern
-Bowie Tupou
-Manuel Quezada

Wild Blue Yonda
06-03-2011, 08:20 PM
I don't believe there's been a worse period, no. Not personally. I can't remember one so abysmal in my lifetime (& for Americans, there was a lot of bemoaning being done during the 80's, let me tell you), & looking back through history, I can't find another timeframe where it looks as shallow as today.

They're not even simply mediocre --- many of them are grossly out-of-shape, too. I mean, of all fundamentals to get down for a boxer, you'd expect keeping in-shape to be top of your list, & we're not talking about guys who just don't seem to have the lungs for the distance (like a De La Hoya, for instance), we're talking about men fighting for millions of dollars, & their own name & history, who are in worse ostensible shape than your everyman in the street. It only compounds their already glaring flaws.

fitefanSHO
06-03-2011, 08:23 PM
For sure, this is as bad as it has ever been.

Where have all the Larry Holmes' gone?

fordhamboxing
06-03-2011, 08:47 PM
For sure, this is as bad as it has ever been.

Where have all the Larry Holmes' gone?

The NBA and NFL.

nomadman
06-04-2011, 05:36 AM
I don't believe there's been a worse period, no. Not personally. I can't remember one so abysmal in my lifetime (& for Americans, there was a lot of bemoaning being done during the 80's, let me tell you), & looking back through history, I can't find another timeframe where it looks as shallow as today.

They're not even simply mediocre --- many of them are grossly out-of-shape, too. I mean, of all fundamentals to get down for a boxer, you'd expect keeping in-shape to be top of your list, & we're not talking about guys who just don't seem to have the lungs for the distance (like a De La Hoya, for instance), we're talking about men fighting for millions of dollars, & their own name & history, who are in worse ostensible shape than your everyman in the street. It only compounds their already glaring flaws.

There's definitely been a clear and marked decline in the quality of American heavyweights in the last ten years, and I'm not buying the whole "it's only because the Eastern Europeans are dominant" argument either. Even were you to take the EEs out of the equation, I don't think you could hide the generally sorry state of the American scene. Chambers has skills and a bit of bottle, but I just can't see him being anything more than a tough B fighter in the 90s, someone who wouldn't totally disgrace himself in the ring against the top guys, but wouldn't win against them either. Johnson also has a bit of skill, but he's a totally negative nancy with no power. Thompson is just awful. He makes comeback Foreman look like Roy Jones. Even in his heyday I doubt he'd be anything more than a tough but very beatable journeyman, and probably wouldn't have seen a sniff at the title unless he was very, very lucky. Arreola at least has the good grace to be exciting, and seems to be making an attempt to get into shape, but that can't disguise his absolutely crude and barely-above-clubfighter skills. He's not the absolute worst, but the fact that some people are calling him the best American heavyweight is quite sad and revealing. The rest of the boxers on that list are either terrible, or terrible and way past their prime.

I won't be unrealistic and pine for the next Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe etc, but for gawd's sake can't we at least have a new Tommy Morrison or something?

nomadman
06-04-2011, 05:37 AM
The NBA and NFL.

An unprovable and hackneyed supposition.

The Smash
06-04-2011, 06:33 AM
Well? Has USA ever had as bad a HW division as this?

The best USA Heavyweights are the following.

The Top Tier USA Heavyweights
-Eddie Chambers
-Chris Arreola
-Tony Thomspon
-Kevin Johnson

Rest Of USA Heavyweights
-Franklin Lawrence
-Evander Holyfield
-Ray Austin
-Hasim Rahman
-Cedric Boswell
-Michael Grant
-Shannon Briggs
-Oliver McCall
-Derric Rossy
-James Toney
-Seth Mitchell
-Maurice Harris
-Jason Estrada
-Monte Barrett
-Johnathon Banks
-Chazz Witherspoon
-Dominick Guinn
-Travis Walker
-DaVarryl Williamson
-Jason Gavern
-Bowie Tupou
-Manuel Quezada

I honestly thought about 6 boxers in that second list were dead.

Welsh Jon
06-04-2011, 06:49 AM
They're not even simply mediocre --- many of them are grossly out-of-shape, too. I mean, of all fundamentals to get down for a boxer, you'd expect keeping in-shape to be top of your list, & we're not talking about guys who just don't seem to have the lungs for the distance (like a De La Hoya, for instance), we're talking about men fighting for millions of dollars, & their own name & history, who are in worse ostensible shape than your everyman in the street. It only compounds their already glaring flaws.


I wonder if for some this is deliberate, do some look at the klitschko brothers and think they need to weight 250 lbs + to compete? American based Cuban Odlainder Solis weighted around 220-230lbs as an amateur, but as a pro he ballooned up to over 280lbs at one point. Even for his biggest ever pro fight vs Vitali he was nearly 250lbs. And once fat boy went down fat boy couldn't get up. If he had the dedication to be a top class amateur athlete, why couldn't he sustain it as a pro? Have the Klits made everyone thing bigger is better in the heavyweight division, or are the majority of heavyweights, particulary American-based one simply lazy?

nomadman
06-04-2011, 07:14 AM
I wonder if for some this is deliberate, do some look at the klitschko brothers and think they need to weight 250 lbs + to compete? American based Cuban Odlainder Solis weighted around 220-230lbs as an amateur, but as a pro he ballooned up to over 280lbs at one point. Even for his biggest ever pro fight vs Vitali he was nearly 250lbs. And once fat boy went down fat boy couldn't get up. If he had the dedication to be a top class amateur athlete, why couldn't he sustain it as a pro? Have the Klits made everyone thing bigger is better in the heavyweight division, or are the majority of heavyweights, particulary American-based one simply lazy?

Whilst I think there's a kernel of truth in thinking that being heavier improves your punch resistance, I simply think most of these fighters are just plain lazy. For Arreola this is certainly true, and he's not shied away from admitting it. As for Solis, I think that with Cubans especially their lifestyles are so harsh and their training regimes so strictly regimented growing up that once they defect they get overwhelmed by the amount of things they can do (I can eat fast food! I can party till the early hours!!) that they can't maintain that discipline on their own. That's my theory at least. Don't know how closely it holds to the truth of the matter. Regardless, it results in the same outcome: grossly out of shape athletes.

I really don't see that there's any reason to be big to compete. The Klits themselves are only around the 240lb mark, relatively lean for such big men. A six foot three 230lb -ish fighter would have a 10lb weight disadvantage, but would have the advantage of being able to compete at a high level and maintain good movement around the ring. That's far preferable to any possible improvement in punch resistance; look where that got Shannon Briggs after all.

TBear
06-04-2011, 07:42 AM
I remember in the 70's people were complaining about how bad the heavyweight division was.
I remember the same of the 80's
I remember the same of the 90's
I remember the same of the 2000's

If they did it now, finally I would say they are right!

Daddy T
06-04-2011, 09:36 AM
yup the American heavyweight scene consists of nothing but a long line of lazy bums who a hungrier for burgars than belts

nomadman
06-04-2011, 09:44 AM
yup the American heavyweight scene consists of nothing but a long line of lazy bums who a hungrier for burgars than belts

I think that's unfair to Chambers who, out of any of Wlad's recent opponents, made a genuinely strong effort to prepare himself for a title shot, with back to back wins over Peter and Dimitrenko. He's also game for another shot, and following his disappointing loss to Povetkin has kept in fighting shape.

The same might also be true of Arreola soon, though time will tell on that one.

The Smash
06-04-2011, 10:07 AM
You're sure that Rahman is still alive? I want proof.

Perfect Plex
06-04-2011, 11:54 AM
Bump!!!!!!!!!

$BloodyNate$
06-04-2011, 11:57 AM
I think that's unfair to Chambers who, out of any of Wlad's recent opponents, made a genuinely strong effort to prepare himself for a title shot, with back to back wins over Peter and Dimitrenko. He's also game for another shot, and following his disappointing loss to Povetkin has kept in fighting shape.

The same might also be true of Arreola soon, though time will tell on that one.

I agree I think Chambers is legit. Sucks he faced the wrong Klitschko, I think he would box the ears off of Vital. Arreola need to fight Wlad. Tired of the Klitschko brothers cherry picking style match ups.

RubenSonny
06-04-2011, 12:03 PM
With the exception of being weight drained, going above your natural weight decreases punch resistance. The Briggs fight just proved that Vitalis power is overrated.

Perfect Plex
06-04-2011, 01:10 PM
I watched Tony Thompson's last fight, and he was truley one of the slowest fighters I have ever seen in the history of boxing. It was like he was fighting in slow motion.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zyjXi5_mmYg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

sweetpea87
06-04-2011, 01:30 PM
It seems like one of the worst, if not the worst Heavyweight division ever.

nomadman
06-04-2011, 03:43 PM
I remember in the 70's people were complaining about how bad the heavyweight division was.
I remember the same of the 80's
I remember the same of the 90's
I remember the same of the 2000's

If they did it now, finally I would say they are right!

It seems like one of the worst, if not the worst Heavyweight division ever.

Thread is about American heavyweights, not the division as a whole.

Perfect Plex
06-04-2011, 03:44 PM
Yeah USA ONLY!

Steak
06-04-2011, 04:23 PM
I watched Tony Thompson's last fight, and he was truley one of the slowest fighters I have ever seen in the history of boxing. It was like he was fighting in slow motion.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zyjXi5_mmYg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

whatever man, Tony was out of shape. He would beat Haye and Vitali.

Tony beats Chambers, getting him a title shot.
Haye KOs Wladimir
Tony TKOs Haye
Vitali steps up and loses to Thompson by decision.

THOMPSON=UNDIPUTED HEAVYWEIGTH CHAMPION AND GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT OF HIS ERA.

nomadman
06-04-2011, 04:34 PM
whatever man, Tony was out of shape. He would beat Haye and Vitali.

Tony beats Chambers, getting him a title shot.
Haye KOs Wladimir
Tony TKOs Haye
Vitali steps up and loses to Thompson by decision.

THOMPSON=UNDIPUTED HEAVYWEIGTH CHAMPION AND GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT OF HIS ERA.

Goes back in time, beats Ali by SD
Joe Louis comes forward in time
Tony KTFO Louis
Lennox steps up and loses to Thompson by braid-off

THOMPSON=UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION AND GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT OF ALL TIME!!!

:You_Rock_

Perfect Plex
06-04-2011, 05:44 PM
whatever man, Tony was out of shape. He would beat Haye and Vitali.

Tony beats Chambers, getting him a title shot.
Haye KOs Wladimir
Tony TKOs Haye
Vitali steps up and loses to Thompson by decision.

THOMPSON=UNDIPUTED HEAVYWEIGTH CHAMPION AND GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT OF HIS ERA.

Steak, out of interest why are you such a big fan of Thompson? Nothing worng with it, but just seems like a odd fighter to be a big fan of.

Steak
06-04-2011, 05:48 PM
Steak, out of interest why are you such a big fan of Thompson? Nothing worng with it, but just seems like a odd fighter to be a big fan of.you actually named it. hes just one of the oddest fighters to be a fan of. Big and has an akward style, doesnt hit hard and is pretty slow, has no real national or cultural backing...no one would really go out of their way to be a fan of him.

fighters like that deserve at least one diehard fan. screw these guys that are really successful and have a big backing, they have enough fans.

I went ahead and became a fan when someone stole his shoes before one of his fights, and he had to borrow someones from the audience. that was enough of a reason.

Perfect Plex
06-04-2011, 05:50 PM
you actually named it. hes just one of the oddest fighters to be a fan of. Big and has an akward style, doesnt hit hard and is pretty slow, has no real national or cultural backing...no one would really go out of their way to be a fan of him.

fighters like that deserve at least one diehard fan. screw these guys that are really successful and have a big backing, they have enough fans.

I went ahead and became a fan when someone stole his shoes before one of his fights, and he had to borrow someones from the audience. that was enough of a reason.

:lol1: Good reason I guess. Is it true he never started boxing until his mid 20's

Steak
06-04-2011, 05:52 PM
:lol1: Good reason I guess. Is it true he never started boxing until his mid 20's
yup. same with Nate Campbell, who I used to be a fan of(still sort of am, not sure if he wants to continue fighting), and Dwight Muhammad Qawi, who is one of my favorite fighters of all time.

Perfect Plex
06-04-2011, 05:53 PM
yup. same with Nate Campbell, who I used to be a fan of(still sort of am, not sure if he wants to continue fighting), and Dwight Muhammad Qawi, who is one of my favorite fighters of all time.

Yeah I like Campbell. Gonna start a thread about Qawi's resume in a bit. :)

The Smash
06-04-2011, 06:25 PM
Maurice Harris? I was sure Jefferson killed him years ago.

nomadman
06-04-2011, 07:16 PM
you actually named it. hes just one of the oddest fighters to be a fan of. Big and has an akward style, doesnt hit hard and is pretty slow, has no real national or cultural backing...no one would really go out of their way to be a fan of him.

fighters like that deserve at least one diehard fan. screw these guys that are really successful and have a big backing, they have enough fans.

I went ahead and became a fan when someone stole his shoes before one of his fights, and he had to borrow someones from the audience. that was enough of a reason.

Yeah I get that. I was sort of a (quasi) fan of John Ruiz's just purely out of perversely thinking that there would surely be no one mad enough to actually be a fan of his. I still find it hard to really hate the guy, though I do find myself going a bit weak at the knees whenever I rewatch a fight of his.

New England
06-04-2011, 08:45 PM
An unprovable and hackneyed supposition.





i don't want to be a dick, but are you very familiar with the NFL or NBA?



there's more talent on one team than you'll find in the entire american HW division, bro


i'm just telling you like i see it


you're talking about guys who are 6'9", seven feet tall

86, 88 inch reaches
265 lbs fit as hell

nobody like them has ever boxed.
premium athletic talent in the states is very rarely steered toward boxing in 2011 when you are talking about a big man
they see football, basketball, baseball on the television, not boxing
they see these guys making 10, 15, 20 million dollars a year
they play the sports for their schools growing up
they get scholarships to top universities take their games to the next level



why are the klitschko's so dominant? it's the size. size over 12 rounds of boxing is an advantage
their size isn't a coincidence, obviously.




it might be best to talk about it in terms of another sport


imagine if all the massively talent players that play soccer around the world went in a time machine and started boxing when they were young


do you really think that none of them are going to be successful or that the talent pool in boxing wont go up?




now take the NBA, where the AVERAGE PLAYER is 6'9" (for those who don't know feet and inches [and there's nothing wrong with that]) six nine is over two meters

or the NFL, where the average player is 6'3 (just a hair under two meters tall) and while they are all built up in manners that boxers are not, many are well over 250 lbs of athletic man




do you really think the talent pool isn't going to skyrocket in the american HW division if you take every one of those guys and start them into boxing?
the division is largely void of talent, and it's competitors aren't even willing to show up in shape

ray louis probably works harder in the gym in the offseason than an american plodder works preparing for his title shot
there is no comparing the drive and desire of the crop of talent


you obviously wouldn't pump out an army of undeniably superior superfighters
but you'd have a boatload of huge talented men in the sport with the hunger to get to the very top of one of the most competitive professional landscapes on the planet, the NFL and the NBA



id bet money that you'd save the division in america out of that crop of talent
im not saying its inevitable
or that hard work and traditional boxing pathways from youth wouldn't be necessary
i'm saying if you apply that drive and talent in those huge numbers to boxing instead of football and basketball as youth and into boxing as adults you'd see a superior division coming out of america and it really shouldn't be up for debate

fordhamboxing
06-04-2011, 09:55 PM
An unprovable and hackneyed supposition.

Unprovable? Why did Tommy Z stick with the NFL and not his true passion (boxing) again? He gave up on his passion for his secondary sport of choice why?

Daddy T
06-06-2011, 11:10 AM
whatever man, Tony was out of shape. He would beat Haye and Vitali.

Tony beats Chambers, getting him a title shot.
Haye KOs Wladimir
Tony TKOs Haye
Vitali steps up and loses to Thompson by decision.

THOMPSON=UNDIPUTED HEAVYWEIGTH CHAMPION AND GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT OF HIS ERA.

thompson couldn't beat eggs

Daddy T
06-06-2011, 11:13 AM
I think that's unfair to Chambers who, out of any of Wlad's recent opponents, made a genuinely strong effort to prepare himself for a title shot, with back to back wins over Peter and Dimitrenko. He's also game for another shot, and following his disappointing loss to Povetkin has kept in fighting shape.

The same might also be true of Arreola soon, though time will tell on that one.

chambers is okay ... okay being the perfect description ... he'd have had a better shot against vitali than wlad ... imo slick boxer could give vitali the run around

New England
06-06-2011, 04:40 PM
chambers is okay ... okay being the perfect description ... he'd have had a better shot against vitali than wlad ... imo slick boxer could give vitali the run around



you seen vitali's fight with kirk johnson?

he slicked his way into the second round before getting clobbered
that's obviously a ten year old example, but i don't think it's too far off in terms of a blueprint fight.

jjohnson perhaps used footspeed more than chambers, who relies on fast hands and reflexes.



a real slickster would have a hell of a time trying to outpoint a man who holds so many physical advantages and has such a solid mastery of distance


you'd need eye catching punches or volume. you aren't going to wear him down or tire him out without pressing the action, he's too economical
and chambers doesn't have eye catching stuff, so he'd have to spend lots of time in and out of vitali's wheelhouse trying to work hard enough to win the rounds

Barn
06-06-2011, 05:31 PM
Absolutely terrible, America is famous for his Heavyweights, with most of my Tp 20 being American.

The Top HW's of the era are usually American. They've had Sullivan - Jeffries - Johnson - Dempsey - Louis - Marciano - Liston - Ali - Frazier - Holmes - Tyson. Only with the rise of Lennox Lewis, and then the Klitchko's did Americans fall out of the HW scene and be "great"(although they still had Holy.)

So I think it's a recent trend and I have no idea when it will stop as it's like nothing experienced before.

New England
06-06-2011, 05:42 PM
Absolutely terrible, America is famous for his Heavyweights, with most of my Tp 20 being American.

The Top HW's of the era are usually American. They've had Sullivan - Jeffries - Johnson - Dempsey - Louis - Marciano - Liston - Ali - Frazier - Holmes - Tyson. Only with the rise of Lennox Lewis, and then the Klitchko's did Americans fall out of the HW scene and be "great"(although they still had Holy.)

So I think it's a recent trend and I have no idea when it will stop as it's like nothing experienced before.




you hit it on the head, burner

it makes perfect sense for american athletic talent with real size to head into other sports
they're steered in that direction literally from birth.


this trend isn't going anywhere


sure, you might have one or two supremely talented and large young people going to boxing, but for every one of them there's thousands heading to play college level basketball and football.
if you don't make it in boxing you have literally nothing
if you don't make it out of collegiate football or basketball or baseball you at least have a college degree and your ticket to middle class living for the rest of your life

not to mention nobody is punching these guys in the face at state university


hell, certain positions in basketball (shooters mostly) are like a walk in the park compared to a day at the office as a pro boxer
baseball players sit around and chew gum and tobacco

football players do take a beating, but the glory american football teams and players are a part of is assumed to be worth it for aspiring young players
the superbowl is the biggest single event in the country every year
hundreds of millions of people stop what they are doing and tune in and have a party of it

nomadman
06-08-2011, 06:28 AM
chambers is okay ... okay being the perfect description ... he'd have had a better shot against vitali than wlad ... imo slick boxer could give vitali the run around

Chambers would give Vitali a lot more problems that Wlad, and make him look pretty bad at times, but I still feel he'd ultimately get outpointed. Chambers fights too much out of a shell, and that doesn't give him the best opportunities to counter punch. He also tends to stand still in one place too often and rely on his head movement to avoid punches, another no no against Vitali. On the other hand, he has excellent speed and timing on his shots and a keen boxing brain. But I still think there's a bit too much going against him there.

nomadman
06-08-2011, 06:58 AM
Unprovable? Why did Tommy Z stick with the NFL and not his true passion (boxing) again? He gave up on his passion for his secondary sport of choice why?

One (not very good) boxer whose professed "passion" for boxing is clearly only skin deep doesn't exactly prove your point. Any more than Sonny Bill Williams proves that all the best Australasian heavies are going into rugby.

If someone wants to be a boxer they become a boxer, and stick with it. But even supposing you're right, what of it? Sergio Martinez could have become a professional soccer player where he'd no doubt have earned a hell of a lot more money for a lot less physical abuse. He chose to become a boxer instead (at the age of 20) and is now P4P no 3 in the world.

See here's a perfect example of an athlete from a mainstream sport going into boxing at a relatively late age and succeeding at the highest level. So why don't you hear any SA or European boxing fans moaning that all the best welterweights, middleweights and supermiddleweights are going into soccer? They have a far better case for saying so.

My guess is because it would smack of whiney excuse making.

Ziggy Stardust
06-08-2011, 02:13 PM
So why don't you hear any SA or European boxing fans moaning that all the best welterweights, middleweights and supermiddleweights are going into soccer? They have a far better case for saying so.

Maybe they are.....then again, can you really call guys who play a girl's sport "athletes"? :thinking9:

Poet

K-DOGG
06-08-2011, 03:17 PM
no....:no:

nomadman
06-08-2011, 06:29 PM
Maybe they are.....then again, can you really call guys who play a girl's sport "athletes"? :thinking9:

Whether you consider soccer a "girl's" sport or not is irrelevant if we're talking about potential talent. Even if you're not, there are more than a few examples of failed soccer players taking up a combat sport at a relatively late age and going on to compete at a high level, and even become champions. More so than failed NFL or NBA players at any rate.

As for whether they're "athletes," try playing the sport to find the answer to that question.

New England
06-08-2011, 07:38 PM
Maybe they are.....then again, can you really call guys who play a girl's sport "athletes"? :thinking9:

Poet



the diving turned me away from soccer for a long time, along with the sort of sporting culture that comes with it. i don't really get it in the least, other than the fact that there is one referee for a field larger than an american football field, and the rules are strict and the play requires serious monitoring.


however, i will say that the men who play european soccer are some of the best athletes that the world has to offer.

soccer is the worlds game, and only the best of the best athletes can rise to the top due to the worldwide competition

in the average game a midfielder will run 6, 7, 8 miles
there are usually no subs for top tier players
the games are 90 mins long and play very rarely stop for long periods


it's a supremely athletic game



i do understand what you are saying, of course, these men are not playing a sport that is violent. there is no way to say for certain how well their athletic gifts will hold up when somebody is trying to murder them

it took maravilla martinez more than a decade to be able to deal with an antonio margarito type, even though martinez is the world class athlete and margarito's best asset is his ability to get hit in the face

and martinez still doesn't react well to being hit in the face (even though he's shown he's got heart.)



unrelated notes:
zdeno chara has some fast hands and he's wearing elbow pads when he fights (chara is a 6'9" 260 lb czech defenseman on the boston bruins. he's a beast.)

maybe some great HW's, lhw's and CW's (maybe even big MW's too,) are playing hockey




the next great canadian HW champion is playing hockey in minnesota.
quote me on that

:rofl:



seriously, though, for big men, other sports will suck away the talent pool from boxing in the states for the foreseeable future. these sports are just bigger than boxing and have a greater pull on big men.


if you're a world class talent level BW, though, nobody is drafting you to the NBA, and we get to see you fight.
thank you nonito donaire for not being 6'10 and 245 with lean muscle

nomadman
06-08-2011, 09:31 PM
My major beef with this whole NBA/NFL argument is that it just assumes that the US is the only country in the world in which big money sports are sucking potential talent away from boxing. Name me a country in which boxing is far and away the number one professional money paying sport and I'll give you green k. Far as I know there aren't any, and boxing will always suffer a dearth of talent to whatever the sport of the masses might be, be it American football, European football, Cricket or Ping Pong, simply by virtue of sheer numbers. And if you're talking potentials, then the toughness of any of those sports becomes irrelevent.

New England
06-08-2011, 10:09 PM
My major beef with this whole NBA/NFL argument is that it just assumes that the US is the only country in the world in which big money sports are sucking potential talent away from boxing. Name me a country in which boxing is far and away the number one professional money paying sport and I'll give you green k. Far as I know there aren't any, and boxing will always suffer a dearth of talent to whatever the sport of the masses might be, be it American football, European football, Cricket or Ping Pong, simply by virtue of sheer numbers. And if you're talking potentials, then the toughness of any of those sports becomes irrelevent.




if we're talking about the HW division in the argument the key factor is the size of the men in the NFL and NBA

the rim in the NBA is more than 3 meters off the ground. most of the guys in the NBA are well over 2 meters tall.

for scale
lennox lewis would be medium sized and truthfully on the small side in the NBA. every night he'd be playing against guys who were taller and longer and stronger than he was. every night. i am not exaggerating. almost every team in the league has at least one guy who would be a head taller and 40 lbs heavier than lennox in his prime (about 235)

25 year old lebron james is bigger than lennox lewis was at his largest, lebron is 265 lbs and he looks like he was chipped out of a block of new hampshire granite

it's really something you've got to see (i'm assuming you aren't from the states here, i don't mean to be a dick)


the nfl and the nba have athletes that are almost exclusively HW

i can think of a few other sports that operate almost exclusively with 200+ lb men in fighting shape
certainly not with money and talent like the NBA and NFL



i think the main argument is that the HW division has historically been dominated by the states
and now that other sports put boxing in the backseat for big men, the lack of american dominance in the sport is evidence that the other american sports are diluting the division and robbing boxing of its next great american champion


it's not set in stone that a great american HW champion will ever come around again