View Full Version : Tyson's Talents Are Way Overrated


Skydog
09-28-2005, 09:16 PM
Okay, first and foremost, Mike Tyson is without a doubt a good boxer. He hit hard, had quick hands, and had a solid chin. At one time, he was one of my favorite boxers.

But then pieces of **** on this site come and just make me want to go against him. People say he can hit the hardest, has a very good chin, and is the greatest of all-time.

First of all, no way in hell does Tyson hit the hardest. Liston, Cooney, and Marciano (to name a few) could all hit harder than Tyson. And then, of course, you have George Foreman. I've actually heard people say Tyson hit harder than George. First of all, George lifted Joe Frazier off of his feet with and uppercut. And that was an uppercut with no body or ground behind it. That was Foreman just throwing his arm upwards. That's ****ing power. Tyson always used his full body when throwing an uppercut, but I never saw him knock anyone off of their feet! Joe Frazier, Joe Louis, and Jack Dempsey hit just as hard as Tyson. Frazier hit Chuvalo with a left hook that TORE HIS ****ING EYE OUT OF IT'S SOCKET. Tyson's left hook can't compare to the feroctiy and fire of Joe's left hook. Louis and Dempsey's handspeed is better than Tyson, with just as much power. Louis's uppercuts were much more brutal than Tyson's.

People have said that Tyson has a better chin than Joe Frazier. This almost as bad as saying that he hit as hard as Foreman. Joe went 42 rounds with Ali, who hit much harder than most people thought and was nailing Joe with some of the hardest and fastest combinations he's ever thrown in those 3 fights. He never floored Joe once. Joe was hit a few times by Quarry's deadly right, but it didn't shake him and he beat the hell out of him. Bonavena floored Joe twice, but Joe went another 8 rounds and won the fight. If you want to criticize Joe for his performance against George, it was only the hardest hitting champion of all-time. No big deal. Tyson has fought Holyfield and Douglas, both of who are not considered punchers, and was beaten to a pulp by them. Tyson quit to ****ing Kevin McBride.

Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey, and Rocky Marciano would all have given Tyson a hell of a beating and would have pounded respect for them into his mind with their fists.

I'm sorry that these people have stripped my feelings towards Tyson down to this, but these Tyson fanatics have driven nothing but anger and hate towards Tyson, which I don't like because he was a great boxer.

datneggajeep
09-29-2005, 12:06 AM
Okay kid your insane, have you ever watched Tyson really fight? his technique was outrageous, he had such good form. Tyson is the hardest puncher of all time dude, like I said his form was really good. If you watch Foreman fight, he just used arm power, tyson used his entire body, Tyson has got some huge legs!

KidBlackie
09-29-2005, 01:39 AM
Tyson fans are as delusional as his critics are.

FACT: Tyson was the youngest, most dominating heavy in history coming up. Even the boxing old timers who tend to poopah the latest champion admitted that Tyson was the best they had ever seen.

No, Tyson did not hit the hardest. He relied on blazing combos to fell his opponents. Yes, Tyson was one of the most skilled heavies in history. He certainly had more skills than Ali. Yes, Tyson also had great natural talent. Yes, Tyson became a mental misfit who lost his focus and stopped training properly and spent his best prime years in prison.

What more does anyone need to know?

Hunna
09-29-2005, 02:43 AM
true, danks for da post

Pugnacious_Z
09-29-2005, 03:14 AM
all i can say is GO EAT A DICK skydog, ur dumb, dats it. marciano is 85kg, tyson was 100kg, marcian is nowhere near as powerful, and dum ****s like u which there are many say he got beaten by buster and evander meanign dat he has weak chin. remember, anyman can knock u if he gets 500+ punchs on u, roy jones only been dropped twice, now are u gona sya he has steel chin? IDIOTS< MUTHAFUKER

UntouchableM2
09-29-2005, 10:04 PM
Tyson is the hardest puncher of all time

^^^^^^^^^^

Skydog
09-29-2005, 11:52 PM
All of you are just Tyson nuthuggers that think he can do everything. HE CAN'T. All of you have ruined Tyson for what he really was.

Skydog
09-29-2005, 11:53 PM
Marciano CAN hit harder than Tyson. He was one of the most intense punchers of all-time. His right on Walcott in their first fight is one of the most brutal things ever caught on tape.

Pugnacious_Z
09-30-2005, 12:31 AM
stop talkin sht skydog, no fighter dat lived 70+ yrs ago cud match heavyweigth these days, they fuken suckes, now ur gona tell me jack johnson hit harder then tyson,

Kid Achilles
09-30-2005, 02:46 PM
no fighter dat lived 70+ yrs ago cud match heavyweigth these days, they fuken suckes,

Do you work on your stupidity, or is it a God given talent?

Warhawk46
09-30-2005, 06:59 PM
Skydog,

Are you honestly a retard, or just trying to start arguments?

Is Tyson the hardest puncher of all-time? Probably not.

Was he once one of the best of all time? Yes.

How can you tell me Dempsey, Marciano, Louis, Foreman, etc...all hit much harder than Tyson?? You have no ****in way of knowing you dumb****.

The same applies to people that say Tyson hit the hardest...there is no ****in way to tell.

But people like Skydog piss me off because they come on here actin like big **** and think they ****in know everything...and then just make themselves out to sound stupid.

I'm sure he is not as dumb as he sounds; yet he is no where near as smart as he thinks he is.

Pugnacious_Z
09-30-2005, 10:37 PM
kid achiles, ur mums talents got me dis smart ***get ****, get any fighter from 70yrs old, wont be **** today and if u think dat aints true, ur a retard ***

Kid Achilles
10-01-2005, 01:35 AM
kid achiles, ur mums talents got me dis smart ***get ****, get any fighter from 70yrs old, wont be **** today and if u think dat aints true, ur a retard ***

Here's a little math lesson for you, you ****ing imbecile.

2005 (the current year in case you're too big of a twat to realize) - 1955 (the year Marciano fought his last fight) = 50 years.

So tell me once again, you ****ing ****, how Marciano fought seventy years ago. You're so ****ing stupid you can't even do a simple math equation.

You argue like an idiot (going straight for my mother just like the average middle schooler and mispelling "******"), type like an idiot, I'm pretty sure you'd even look like a ****ing idiot. You're an idiot. I don't think I've seen a hint of class or intelligence by you since you submitted your first post here. Even Tommyhearns's posts ocassionally showed the semblance of some kind of thought process once you looked past the racist bull**** and terrible paragraph structure. But you, you're one of a kind. When I say straight up you're the dumbest person I've encountered on this forum, I truly mean it. I'm not kidding.

I don't know what else to say. I guess you can't help it but um, try not to be a moron?

kapersky
10-01-2005, 06:59 AM
kid achiles, ur mums talents got me dis smart ***get ****, get any fighter from 70yrs old, wont be **** today and if u think dat aints true, ur a retard ***
fu ******. eat **** and drink piss because u seem to not use your brain anyway. one more bull****ing post from you i will report it. you and tommyhearn should die

Pugnacious_Z
10-01-2005, 08:02 AM
eat a fukin dick kapersky, ur lashing out now coz ur bf kid achiles said sumthing u loser, most of youse are losers who get bullied with ur low confidence, i bet u any money, i wud be smarter then both u puffs at one time, marciano is a small ass whiteboy dat was good for his age, not compared to big guys this era, even ruiz wud give him trouble so Eat A Dick

Kid Achilles
10-01-2005, 01:09 PM
eat a fukin dick kapersky, ur lashing out now coz ur bf kid achiles said sumthing u loser, most of youse are losers who get bullied with ur low confidence, i bet u any money, i wud be smarter then both u puffs at one time, marciano is a small ass whiteboy dat was good for his age, not compared to big guys this era, even ruiz wud give him trouble so Eat A Dick

Face the facts, you're the one who keeps bringing up dicks and "***gets". It's a little odd, don't you think? Do you see any of the rest of us talking about dick in our posts? You should see someone about that.

May I suggest a male escort?

kapersky
10-01-2005, 04:08 PM
eat a fukin dick kapersky, ur lashing out now coz ur bf kid achiles said sumthing u loser, most of youse are losers who get bullied with ur low confidence, i bet u any money, i wud be smarter then both u puffs at one time, marciano is a small ass whiteboy dat was good for his age, not compared to big guys this era, even ruiz wud give him trouble so Eat A Dick
u eat dick, ever wonder why marciano was undefeated?, ****** u so dumb

iwagh911
10-01-2005, 05:23 PM
I don't really think these fighters can fairly be compared. However, all of them were great and were classics with their ups and downs. Just my 2cents..


Haha and guys chillout, through this thread alone I think a innocent youngin' has learned quite a lot of naughty words...just something to think about heh.

Skydog
10-01-2005, 06:05 PM
Marciano hit harder than Tyson.

Warhawk46
10-02-2005, 04:43 PM
Why insist on being ignorant?

You dont know if he hit harder, there is no way to tell.

If I had to bet, I would say Tyson could hit harder because he was 30 lbs heavier in his prime (215 lbs) as opposed to the 185 lbs of Marciano.

However, I am not going to say something as definate as "Tyson could hit harder than Rocky" because that would be ignorant and arrogant...there is simply no way to know for sure.

However, you seem to have no problem talking in absolutes. Unfortunately, you are only making yourself look dumb. Either you are really such an egotistical prick, or you are trying to incite arguments (which has happened, judging by the language being thrown around in this thread).

Kid Achilles
10-02-2005, 05:14 PM
The only one who is inciting arguments here is Pugnacious, a loud mouthed punk who wouldn't have the balls to say a fraction of the stuff he says on this forum in person. Look through some of his posts and you'll see all kinds of twisted ****. Rape threats even. He doesn't deserve respect from any of us.

Pugnacious_Z
10-03-2005, 01:22 AM
eat a dick achiles, u ***** ass ***get, id beat u with words or in person with my fists

Kid Achilles
10-03-2005, 01:52 AM
Right, all 150 pounds of you.

Verstyle
10-03-2005, 02:17 AM
u said cooney can hit harder then tyson i have no comment on the rest of bull**** u said. and tyson has lifted people of there feet i think u need to see the eddie richardson fight for an example.(cause when u get carried halfway across the ring. i think thats something there

Skydog
10-04-2005, 10:19 PM
Launching someone horizontally is much different than straight up off of their feet. And let's not forget that George's uppercut was just an arm punch.

I would shudder to think what he would do to little Mike if he wounded up and put his whole body into one of those uppercuts.

Warhawk46
10-05-2005, 12:59 AM
Except for the fact that Tyson was nearly as heavy as Foreman...what you dont realize is just how dense Tyson was...he was built like a tank.

Tyson weighed 215-220 lbs during his prime
Foreman was 220-230 lbs (give or take a few)

Tyson was so much more compact, a real wrecking ball
Foreman was considered a monster when he first fought, but he was really the size of a lot of guys when Tyson ruled.

But, really both men had iron fists. Foreman was just so damn slow...every punch looked like a haymaker.

hellfire508
10-05-2005, 08:12 AM
Tyson fans are as delusional as his critics are.

FACT: Tyson was the youngest, most dominating heavy in history coming up. Even the boxing old timers who tend to poopah the latest champion admitted that Tyson was the best they had ever seen.

No, Tyson did not hit the hardest. He relied on blazing combos to fell his opponents. Yes, Tyson was one of the most skilled heavies in history. He certainly had more skills than Ali. Yes, Tyson also had great natural talent. Yes, Tyson became a mental misfit who lost his focus and stopped training properly and spent his best prime years in prison.

What more does anyone need to know?

Ali would have destroyed Tyson. No questions asked. Not only would Ali dance circles around him, landing furious combinations, but he would probably stop Tyson late. Either by the ref, or by Tyson quitting, when he hits Ali with his best shot and Ali just keeps dancing. Tyson was awesome. But the truth is, he is no Muhammad Ali, and would be beaten by alot of fighters.

KidBlackie
10-05-2005, 09:49 AM
[[[Ali would have destroyed Tyson. No questions asked.]]]
======================

Hmmm, well, Ali fans are as delusional as Tyson fans, though usually not as ugly. Ali was a very beatable fighter matched up with the right opponent. Any fighter can be beat.

Regardless, the thread is who is more skilled, not who can beat who. Tyson had more traditional boxing skills than did Ali who relied primarily on his natural attributes and style.

Verstyle
10-05-2005, 11:28 AM
Launching someone horizontally is much different than straight up off of their feet. And let's not forget that George's uppercut was just an arm punch.

I would shudder to think what he would do to little Mike if he wounded up and put his whole body into one of those uppercuts.


ok then mike tyson vs. mark young. he uppercuted him and he flew a quarter of the ring back and fell into the ropes and was knocked out cold. and yes both feet were off the ground. so he did left lift him across the ring literally u cant deny that cause its on video. so whatcha gotta say bought that. and george decided to throw arm punches dont make it seem like o if he threw them like tyson he woulda flew in the third row cause obviousl he wasnt good at full body punches cause he was was he woulda thrown them. it would make since. duhhhhhh!!!!!!! and im still flored about cooney hittin harder then tyson,hey if thats the case i can hit harder then big george foreman. and even if cooney did hit harder no one ever talked about his power like they did frazier george, tyson, and shavers. so maybe his power was so great that it couldnt be talked about cause of fear of bad karma. :)

Kid Achilles
10-05-2005, 01:25 PM
Why are you floored by the theory of Cooney hitting harder than Tyson? Did you ever see any of his knockouts? Norton and Lyle had passed their primes but the punches he unloaded on them were unreal. I would not be surprised if his left hook had more force behind it as Tyson's. Remember that there were a lot of extremely hard hitting heavyweights throughout history. Tyson's power alone was not what made him stand out as a unique fighter. It was his reflexes and upper body movement, coupled with his handspeed.

Warhawk46
10-06-2005, 09:23 PM
True, it was not Tyson's power that made him special. Lots of fighters have a huge punch...Tyson was great because of his defense (movement) his accurate and technically precise punching ability, and his incredibly fast combinations.

As an added bonus, during his prime he also had a helluva work ethic. Unfortunately, he got lazy after he split with Rooney and it showed in his lackluster performance against Bruno...a foreshadowing of Douglas.

Lucky466
10-07-2005, 12:23 PM
stop talkin sht skydog, no fighter dat lived 70+ yrs ago cud match heavyweigth these days, they fuken suckes, now ur gona tell me jack johnson hit harder then tyson,


Congradulations that is by far the undisputed king of retarded statements for the year hands down. Lets just give this guy the trophey the contest is over I dont care how many more months are left in this year.

Pugnacious_Z
10-08-2005, 12:02 PM
lucky, go fuk urself and suk off kid achiles while ur at it pufter, id drop both of youse 1 vs 2, i bet any of youse $1000 i can hit harder then youse so dont speak **** b4 u get ur chin checked

chopper77
10-10-2005, 05:01 PM
I always said he could be beat if the guy who fought him fought like they were in a phone booth. When you watch the Douglas fight, Buster fought him perfectly. Lots and lots of straight punches.

Muchmoore
10-17-2005, 09:02 PM
Tyson is one of the best ever, without a doubt. The only people who say different are haters, and people with a neutral opinion ALWAYS say hes a great.

Dempsey 1919
10-25-2005, 03:05 PM
i would say mike tyson was a little overrated by the mid 90s. but in the mid and late 80s it was awesome. He copied to the letter the same style used by first Dempsey, Marciano, and finally Smokin' Joe. He had all the earmarks of a heavyweight great.

catskills23
08-28-2006, 06:25 PM
Tyson might not of being the hardest puncher ever but he was defintely the hardest puncher of his era and one the hardest hitters in heavyweight history . Sparring partners who sparred with mike tyson , david tua and lennox lewis have said that tyson hit harder . james tillis said that tyson hit harder than shavers and michael spinks said tyson hit harder than cooney . Before the first holyfield fight tyson knocked a punching bag straight fron the celling . they then had to tie it to the wall of the building and everytime mike hit the bag the building shook . If thats not supernatural power i dont know what is .

Dye
08-28-2006, 06:33 PM
Okay kid your insane, have you ever watched Tyson really fight? his technique was outrageous, he had such good form. Tyson is the hardest puncher of all time dude, like I said his form was really good. If you watch Foreman fight, he just used arm power, tyson used his entire body, Tyson has got some huge legs!
you a damn fool

Dye
08-28-2006, 06:34 PM
Tyson might not of being the hardest puncher ever but he was defintely the hardest puncher of his era and one the hardest hitters in heavyweight history . Sparring partners who sparred with mike tyson , david tua and lennox lewis have said that tyson hit harder . james tillis said that tyson hit harder than shavers and michael spinks said tyson hit harder than cooney . Before the first holyfield fight tyson knocked a punching bag straight fron the celling . they then had to tie it to the wall of the building and everytime mike hit the bag the building shook . If thats not supernatural power i dont know what is .
NO, sparring partners of Tyosn and Morrison guess what they said

Verstyle
08-28-2006, 06:55 PM
tyson skills overrated hahahaha

RAESAAD
08-28-2006, 06:57 PM
Tyson had an incredible moment in history.......nothing more.He is a top 20 alltime guy I suppose.

Hard Boiled HK
08-28-2006, 10:34 PM
tyson skills overrated hahahaha

Versatile, who do you personally think are the top 3 heavyweights of all time?

Hard Boiled HK
08-28-2006, 10:36 PM
stop talkin sht skydog, no fighter dat lived 70+ yrs ago cud match heavyweigth these days, they fuken suckes, now ur gona tell me jack johnson hit harder then tyson,

You've been to school, right? Did they teach you how to count?

Verstyle
08-28-2006, 10:39 PM
Versatile, who do you personally think are the top 3 heavyweights of all time?


from what i seen and not what ppl go by i would have to say 1.ali,2.louis,3.tyson

jason100x
08-28-2006, 10:45 PM
Tyson was NOT overrated at his peak. After the comeback from prison, you could certainly argue that he was overrated, maybe even as early as the Frank Bruno fight.

Smokin'
08-28-2006, 10:49 PM
Note to everyone:
Stop saying Tyson lacked the mental attitude and all that ****. All fighters fight to win .. it's human nature. Tyson just wasn't that good.

Verstyle
08-28-2006, 11:01 PM
Tyson was NOT overrated at his peak. After the comeback from prison, you could certainly argue that he was overrated, maybe even as early as the Frank Bruno fight.


exactly peak tyson was not. im glad some1 with boxing knowledge can come on here and shed some light. well ne way the tyson after his prime was only rated so high cause ppl still thought he had it like he did in his prime,plus he was a 1 punch ko artist also

Hard Boiled HK
08-28-2006, 11:08 PM
What's with all the hate for Tyson? I just don't see the reasoning.

Smokin'
08-28-2006, 11:10 PM
Versa: 'prime' Tyson only fought security guards and police officers.

Verstyle
08-28-2006, 11:12 PM
Versa: 'prime' Tyson only fought security guards and police officers.

*sigh* ....

Verstyle
08-28-2006, 11:13 PM
What's with all the hate for Tyson? I just don't see the reasoning.


thats how it always has been,u should know this ahaha. he jus has that kind of personality of love him or hate him

sleazyfellow
08-29-2006, 01:16 AM
tysons talents were not overrated...like many said after his comeback from prison u could say that, but not back when i was a kid he was the ****

Piggu
08-29-2006, 01:19 AM
all i can say is GO EAT A DICK skydog, ur dumb, dats it. marciano is 85kg, tyson was 100kg, marcian is nowhere near as powerful, and dum ****s like u which there are many say he got beaten by buster and evander meanign dat he has weak chin. remember, anyman can knock u if he gets 500+ punchs on u, roy jones only been dropped twice, now are u gona sya he has steel chin? IDIOTS< MUTHAFUKER
Everything in the bold is completely pointless type.
anyman can knock u if he gets 500+ punchs on u, roy jones only been dropped twice, now are u gona sya he has steel chin?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
FIXED VERSION

hellfire508
08-29-2006, 06:11 AM
all i can say is GO EAT A DICK skydog, ur dumb, dats it. marciano is 85kg, tyson was 100kg, marcian is nowhere near as powerful, and dum ****s like u which there are many say he got beaten by buster and evander meanign dat he has weak chin. remember, anyman can knock u if he gets 500+ punchs on u, roy jones only been dropped twice, now are u gona sya he has steel chin? IDIOTS< MUTHAFUKER

While I definately agree on the chin part, Tyson had an excellent chin, I very much disagree on the power part.

Valuev almost weighs 150kg, does that mean he hits harder than Tyson? By your logic, it does! Dempsey and Marciano were freaks of nature in terms of power for their size. Size does NOT determine power. Ali weighed more that Dempsey.. so he must hit harder right?

Cutthroat
08-29-2006, 09:02 AM
Okay, first and foremost, Mike Tyson is without a doubt a good boxer. He hit hard, had quick hands, and had a solid chin. At one time, he was one of my favorite boxers.

But then pieces of **** on this site come and just make me want to go against him. People say he can hit the hardest, has a very good chin, and is the greatest of all-time.

First of all, no way in hell does Tyson hit the hardest. Liston, Cooney, and Marciano (to name a few) could all hit harder than Tyson. And then, of course, you have George Foreman. I've actually heard people say Tyson hit harder than George. First of all, George lifted Joe Frazier off of his feet with and uppercut. And that was an uppercut with no body or ground behind it. That was Foreman just throwing his arm upwards. That's ****ing power. Tyson always used his full body when throwing an uppercut, but I never saw him knock anyone off of their feet! Joe Frazier, Joe Louis, and Jack Dempsey hit just as hard as Tyson. Frazier hit Chuvalo with a left hook that TORE HIS ****ING EYE OUT OF IT'S SOCKET. Tyson's left hook can't compare to the feroctiy and fire of Joe's left hook. Louis and Dempsey's handspeed is better than Tyson, with just as much power. Louis's uppercuts were much more brutal than Tyson's.

People have said that Tyson has a better chin than Joe Frazier. This almost as bad as saying that he hit as hard as Foreman. Joe went 42 rounds with Ali, who hit much harder than most people thought and was nailing Joe with some of the hardest and fastest combinations he's ever thrown in those 3 fights. He never floored Joe once. Joe was hit a few times by Quarry's deadly right, but it didn't shake him and he beat the hell out of him. Bonavena floored Joe twice, but Joe went another 8 rounds and won the fight. If you want to criticize Joe for his performance against George, it was only the hardest hitting champion of all-time. No big deal. Tyson has fought Holyfield and Douglas, both of who are not considered punchers, and was beaten to a pulp by them. Tyson quit to ****ing Kevin McBride.

Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey, and Rocky Marciano would all have given Tyson a hell of a beating and would have pounded respect for them into his mind with their fists.

I'm sorry that these people have stripped my feelings towards Tyson down to this, but these Tyson fanatics have driven nothing but anger and hate towards Tyson, which I don't like because he was a great boxer.


Marciano? You've got to be kidding me, he couldn't hit for ****. Tyson almost punched twice as hard as him, and that is a FACT no an opinion

SquareCircle
08-29-2006, 09:58 AM
Yes, Tyson was one of the most skilled heavies in history. He certainly had more skills than Ali.

kill yourself.

dans0123
08-29-2006, 10:00 AM
I don't know if Tyson hit harder than Marciano or vice versa. How can anyone who hasn't taken their punches. All I know is that Tyson was a devastating finisher with the ability to knock any great heavyweight out with one clean punch. His attacks were also measured and calculated, putting all his power into each shot, whether it was to the body, the side of the head, or the chin. Second to his finishing skills were his defensive skills. Tyson kept his hands up and rarely got caught with clean shots. If he did, he had a granite chin to back it up. As far as his footwork goes, he never danced and rarely tried to win by decision. However, if his defensive skills didn't disappear we may be looking at a heavyweight in the top three all time.

King Koyle
08-29-2006, 10:45 AM
Prime Tyson was a thing of beauty.His physical skills were great.It's his mental skills that were lacking.

King Koyle
08-29-2006, 10:51 AM
Marciano? You've got to be kidding me, he couldn't hit for ****. Tyson almost punched twice as hard as him, and that is a FACT no an opinion

Marciano lacked in skills and technique.But he certainly was a hard puncher.He wouldn't have got very far if he wasn't.

Demorak
08-29-2006, 02:42 PM
What's with all the hate for Tyson? I just don't see the reasoning.
I think its because of all the nuthuggers, they overrate Tyson to the extrem but I can understand because when I didnt know a thing about boxing I thought Tyson was the best ever too.

Tyson is a top 10 without a doubt I have him around 6 myself.

KingDosia
08-29-2006, 04:30 PM
Okay, first and foremost, Mike Tyson is without a doubt a good boxer. He hit hard, had quick hands, and had a solid chin. At one time, he was one of my favorite boxers.

But then pieces of **** on this site come and just make me want to go against him. People say he can hit the hardest, has a very good chin, and is the greatest of all-time.

First of all, no way in hell does Tyson hit the hardest. Liston, Cooney, and Marciano (to name a few) could all hit harder than Tyson. And then, of course, you have George Foreman. I've actually heard people say Tyson hit harder than George. First of all, George lifted Joe Frazier off of his feet with and uppercut. And that was an uppercut with no body or ground behind it. That was Foreman just throwing his arm upwards. That's ****ing power. Tyson always used his full body when throwing an uppercut, but I never saw him knock anyone off of their feet! Joe Frazier, Joe Louis, and Jack Dempsey hit just as hard as Tyson. Frazier hit Chuvalo with a left hook that TORE HIS ****ING EYE OUT OF IT'S SOCKET. Tyson's left hook can't compare to the feroctiy and fire of Joe's left hook. Louis and Dempsey's handspeed is better than Tyson, with just as much power. Louis's uppercuts were much more brutal than Tyson's.

People have said that Tyson has a better chin than Joe Frazier. This almost as bad as saying that he hit as hard as Foreman. Joe went 42 rounds with Ali, who hit much harder than most people thought and was nailing Joe with some of the hardest and fastest combinations he's ever thrown in those 3 fights. He never floored Joe once. Joe was hit a few times by Quarry's deadly right, but it didn't shake him and he beat the hell out of him. Bonavena floored Joe twice, but Joe went another 8 rounds and won the fight. If you want to criticize Joe for his performance against George, it was only the hardest hitting champion of all-time. No big deal. Tyson has fought Holyfield and Douglas, both of who are not considered punchers, and was beaten to a pulp by them. Tyson quit to ****ing Kevin McBride.

Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey, and Rocky Marciano would all have given Tyson a hell of a beating and would have pounded respect for them into his mind with their fists.

I'm sorry that these people have stripped my feelings towards Tyson down to this, but these Tyson fanatics have driven nothing but anger and hate towards Tyson, which I don't like because he was a great boxer.

Tysons skills over rated? Hmm. The world fell in love with Tyson because he was somthing that they have never seen. I stress never. Cus Demato "who consequently trained Ali" was so amazed with the raw talent of a young Tyson he dove head first into this kids career without even thinking about it. Would you have the balls to say you know more about fighting skills than Cus?
Teddy Atlas loathed Tyson due to his arrogance. But has never downed his Skills, Would you also argue with Teddy Atlas? It's easy to talk **** about Iron Mike now he threw it all away. Yes the likes of Frazier, Foreman, Ali, Liston, Dempsy and Marciano had some impressive talents, but each individualy, Who besides Mike did it all? Answer none of them. Frazier and Foreman had the power Mike did Not the speed. Same for Liston and Marciano. Ali while faster on his feet and with his hands didn't hit as hard. Tysons legacy. his power came so fast and so percise. The world was in Awe So was you. It's easy to hate him now, but b real. Nothing has been over rated about the baddest man on the planet. "why did they give him that name"

Piggu
08-29-2006, 05:40 PM
kill yourself.
We can help him.

Piggu
08-29-2006, 05:41 PM
I think its because of all the nuthuggers, they overrate Tyson to the extrem but I can understand because when I didnt know a thing about boxing I thought Tyson was the best ever too.

Tyson is a top 10 without a doubt I have him around 6 myself.
Yeah like when they say "Tyson Easily Outboxes Muhammmad Ali over the 15-round distance, using his legs to outmanuever Ali."

catskills23
08-29-2006, 05:53 PM
Marciano? You've got to be kidding me, he couldn't hit for ****. Tyson almost punched twice as hard as him, and that is a FACT no an opinion

how is it a fact?.

Piggu
08-29-2006, 05:54 PM
how is it a fact?.
I know huh? Stats Please.

The Noose
08-29-2006, 06:36 PM
But then pieces of **** on this site come and just make me want to go against him.


I'm sorry that these people have stripped my feelings towards Tyson down to this, but these Tyson fanatics have driven nothing but anger and hate towards Tyson, which I don't like because he was a great boxer.

So because people say obviously stupid things about Tyson, ur opinion of him lowers?
Sorry, but thats stupid.

If i kept saying Ali had five legs, would u start to believe he only had one?

U should have more faith in ur own opinions and not let niave posters sway u.

Dye
08-29-2006, 07:25 PM
What's with all the hate for Tyson? I just don't see the reasoning.
because he is a jackass that when frustrated bites ears or trys to break peoples arms

K-DOGG
08-29-2006, 07:36 PM
Okay, first and foremost, Mike Tyson is without a doubt a good boxer. He hit hard, had quick hands, and had a solid chin. At one time, he was one of my favorite boxers.

But then pieces of **** on this site come and just make me want to go against him. People say he can hit the hardest, has a very good chin, and is the greatest of all-time.

First of all, no way in hell does Tyson hit the hardest. Liston, Cooney, and Marciano (to name a few) could all hit harder than Tyson. And then, of course, you have George Foreman. I've actually heard people say Tyson hit harder than George. First of all, George lifted Joe Frazier off of his feet with and uppercut. And that was an uppercut with no body or ground behind it. That was Foreman just throwing his arm upwards. That's ****ing power. Tyson always used his full body when throwing an uppercut, but I never saw him knock anyone off of their feet! Joe Frazier, Joe Louis, and Jack Dempsey hit just as hard as Tyson. Frazier hit Chuvalo with a left hook that TORE HIS ****ING EYE OUT OF IT'S SOCKET. Tyson's left hook can't compare to the feroctiy and fire of Joe's left hook. Louis and Dempsey's handspeed is better than Tyson, with just as much power. Louis's uppercuts were much more brutal than Tyson's.

People have said that Tyson has a better chin than Joe Frazier. This almost as bad as saying that he hit as hard as Foreman. Joe went 42 rounds with Ali, who hit much harder than most people thought and was nailing Joe with some of the hardest and fastest combinations he's ever thrown in those 3 fights. He never floored Joe once. Joe was hit a few times by Quarry's deadly right, but it didn't shake him and he beat the hell out of him. Bonavena floored Joe twice, but Joe went another 8 rounds and won the fight. If you want to criticize Joe for his performance against George, it was only the hardest hitting champion of all-time. No big deal. Tyson has fought Holyfield and Douglas, both of who are not considered punchers, and was beaten to a pulp by them. Tyson quit to ****ing Kevin McBride.

Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey, and Rocky Marciano would all have given Tyson a hell of a beating and would have pounded respect for them into his mind with their fists.

I'm sorry that these people have stripped my feelings towards Tyson down to this, but these Tyson fanatics have driven nothing but anger and hate towards Tyson, which I don't like because he was a great boxer.


I'm going to keep this brief...for a change. :)

1. Don't let your loathing of fanatics cloud your vision.

2. Mike was THAT talented.

3. He did not hit as hard as Foreman or Shavers; but his power was above average.

4. His speed was well above average...possibley close to being on par with Ali's and Patterson's; and his speed is what generated his power.

5. His chin was well above average. This was apparent after he quit moving his head as much and began taking more shots....and, yes, it was better than Frazier's.

6. His defense and head-movement in his prime was superb; he was very hard to hit....which left countering openings against his opponents...one of his strengths.

7. Mike Tyson had the physical talent to be the GOAT; believe it. His mental instability eventually did him in. Once his core emotional support group evaporated or was dispersed, he was left with himself and a group of leeches who he neither trusted, believed in, or helped him. He was naked and alone against the world; and he just wasn't strong enough to maintain momentum without support.....but the talent was there.

Hard Boiled HK
08-29-2006, 10:24 PM
Marciano? You've got to be kidding me, he couldn't hit for ****. Tyson almost punched twice as hard as him, and that is a FACT no an opinion

Well damn, that's a fact? Define "fact". List three references that states this as a "fact".

By the way, don't ever be a lawyer. You won't impress the jury.

Kid Achilles
08-29-2006, 11:33 PM
Marciano? You've got to be kidding me, he couldn't hit for ****. Tyson almost punched twice as hard as him, and that is a FACT no an opinion

You're a ****ing moron, please get off the site. That was such a moronic comment that you should be banned immediately before your stupidity spreads to anyone else. What you said is like calling Ali slow and heavy footed or saying Marvin Hagler had a glass jaw.

Verstyle
08-29-2006, 11:42 PM
i cant lie,alot of tyson fans on here make us regular tyson fans look like idiots. like when they say he hit the hardest and the best ever and all that. im probably the biggest tyson fan on here and i know thats not TRUE.

Cutthroat
08-29-2006, 11:47 PM
I don't know if Tyson hit harder than Marciano or vice versa. How can anyone who hasn't taken their punches. All I know is that Tyson was a devastating finisher with the ability to knock any great heavyweight out with one clean punch. His attacks were also measured and calculated, putting all his power into each shot, whether it was to the body, the side of the head, or the chin. Second to his finishing skills were his defensive skills. Tyson kept his hands up and rarely got caught with clean shots. If he did, he had a granite chin to back it up. As far as his footwork goes, he never danced and rarely tried to win by decision. However, if his defensive skills didn't disappear we may be looking at a heavyweight in the top three all time.


They measured thier punches before, Tyson almost got twice of what Marciano did, back then they didn't have much of a chin. You gotta remember that.

Kid Achilles
08-29-2006, 11:49 PM
You are so right. So many of Tyson's fans give him a bad name with their ridiculous comments and downright hateful remarks to other heavyweights from years past. The ironic thing is Tyson worshipped guys like Louis, Marciano, Frazier and Dempsey, hell he has ten times the historical knowledge I have, maybe a hundred times (Tyson is really a walking boxing history encyclopedia, it's almost freakish how well he knows the dates and everything) and would probably cuss out anyone who would talk **** about these guys.

Kid Achilles
08-29-2006, 11:51 PM
They measured thier punches before, Tyson almost got twice of what Marciano did, back then they didn't have much of a chin. You gotta remember that.

Marciano was recorded at something like 1150 whereas Tyson was in the 1200-1300 range. I hardly call that twice the punching power of Marciano.

Verstyle
08-29-2006, 11:55 PM
the ppl that say tyson is the greatest and so on and so on,only goes by his kos and 1 of the only guys they can remember and somewhat pay attention to.

NJFighter91
08-30-2006, 12:09 AM
You are so right. So many of Tyson's fans give him a bad name with their ridiculous comments and downright hateful remarks to other heavyweights from years past. The ironic thing is Tyson worshipped guys like Louis, Marciano, Frazier and Dempsey, hell he has ten times the historical knowledge I have, maybe a hundred times (Tyson is really a walking boxing history encyclopedia, it's almost freakish how well he knows the dates and everything) and would probably cuss out anyone who would talk **** about these guys.I was watching an interview with Tyson, Leanard, and Ali aired in the 80's and when they asked Tyson about Ali's favorite fight, he knew the fight by date, location, everything. Pretty freakish just like you said.

hellfire508
08-30-2006, 02:17 AM
These are the sort of ignorant posts that **** me so much, from Tyson fans.

All I know is that Tyson was a devastating finisher with the ability to knock any great heavyweight out with one clean punch.

Please. One clean punch on any fighter? So, he didn't land a clean punch on Holyfield? Douglas? Bonecrusher Smith? Tucker? Get a clue. Guts like Chuvalo wouldn't even take a step back after getting nailed flush from Tyson. Foreman barely made him blink!

Marciano? You've got to be kidding me, he couldn't hit for ****. Tyson almost punched twice as hard as him, and that is a FACT no an opinion

A FACT? Ok bud. Keep your wet dreams to yourself.

It's easy to talk **** about Iron Mike now he threw it all away. Yes the likes of Frazier, Foreman, Ali, Liston, Dempsy and Marciano had some impressive talents, but each individualy, Who besides Mike did it all? Answer none of them.

Note: Tyson wasn't complete either. He lacked heart, a VITAL ingredient.

all i can say is GO EAT A DICK skydog, ur dumb, dats it. marciano is 85kg, tyson was 100kg, marcian is nowhere near as powerful, and dum ****s like u which there are many say he got beaten by buster and evander meanign dat he has weak chin. remember, anyman can knock u if he gets 500+ punchs on u, roy jones only been dropped twice, now are u gona sya he has steel chin? IDIOTS< MUTHAFUKER

Weight does not determine power, as I said earlier. Valuev does not hit harder than Tyson, despite weighing one and a half Tysons!!


Yes, Tyson was one of the most skilled heavies in history. He certainly had more skills than Ali.


Really? He certainly did, did he?

They measured thier punches before, Tyson almost got twice of what Marciano did, back then they didn't have much of a chin. You gotta remember that.

Really? Prove to everyone about these tests. That's right, you cant! Rumour has it Marciano was measured on a PSI machine, and clocked in at over 1000PSI... but that rumour can't be substantiated as far as I know. But you "know" all these facts, so provide evidence please.

Oh, and since when didn't they have chins back then? I guess having a good chin develops over time right? Taking a punch is mostly to do with motivation, and I guess fighters have gotten hungrier since then, right? :rolleyes:



Guys like Kid Achilles and Versatile are right... they are Tyson fans, and they get a bad name because of ignorant people like the ones I have quoted.

Verstyle
08-30-2006, 02:31 AM
tyson did have heart.with douglas he fought for 10 rounds of getting his ass kicked,he had to be knocked the **** out to quit.vs. ruddock he had the heart to continue although ruddock was doing everything that ppl say could beat a tyson(not afraid,coming foward,hitting back),first holyfield fight he was gettin his ass handed to him for 11 rounds before the tko, a person would no heart would of stopped trying already,vs. lewis once again he got his ass beat for 8 rounds and stood and took it while tryin to fight back,all these fights were lopsided but he still fought(besides ruddock). now fights where i can say the heart lacked was 2nd holyfield fight when he bit his ear,williams fight although he had a knee injury he should have fought threw it alot more then what he did instead of practically quiting,and vs. mcbride when he said **** it. thats only 3 times, alot of u guys make it seem like he's been heartless his whole career.

hellfire508
08-30-2006, 05:31 AM
He had heart, but it was nothing compared to Frazier, or Holyfield, or Ali, or Marciano. Therefore he was not complete.

catskills23
08-30-2006, 09:26 AM
Marciano was recorded at something like 1150 whereas Tyson was in the 1200-1300 range. I hardly call that twice the punching power of Marciano.

how do you know tyson punch was 1200-1300.

Dempsey 1919
08-30-2006, 09:37 AM
Tyson's talents are definetely not overrated. I think some people might overrate his power, but that's about it. tyson was a great fighter.

catskills23
08-30-2006, 01:35 PM
i cant understand how people can dimiss tysons phenominal power . i have seen punch stats of tyson punching at 1450 psi .Foreman 1600 psi . Some of his opponents have said that he dosent hit that hard and it was reckoned that bruno was the hardest puncher in the divsion but tests show that tyson hit harder than bruno and bruno is a massive puncher.

Verstyle
08-30-2006, 01:37 PM
He had heart, but it was nothing compared to Frazier, or Holyfield, or Ali, or Marciano. Therefore he was not complete.


heart is heart. he only showed no heart in like 3 matches compared to over 60

hemichromis
08-30-2006, 01:53 PM
i cant understand how people can dimiss tysons phenominal power . i have seen punch stats of tyson punching at 1450 psi .Foreman 1600 psi . Some of his opponents have said that he dosent hit that hard and it was reckoned that bruno was the hardest puncher in the divsion but tests show that tyson hit harder than bruno and bruno is a massive puncher.

people keep throwing around numbers that are apparently 'punching power' but no one so far has offered ANY evidence to prove it!

catskills23
08-30-2006, 02:55 PM
people keep throwing around numbers that are apparently 'punching power' but no one so far has offered ANY evidence to prove it!

well bruno was considered a harder puncher than tyson but tests were done on bruno and tyson and tyson was found to punch harder.

Verstyle
08-30-2006, 03:00 PM
well bruno was considered a harder puncher than tyson but tests were done on bruno and tyson and tyson was found to punch harder.


PROVE IT SHOW ME EVIDENCE

The Noose
08-30-2006, 03:10 PM
There is no evidence.
People thought Bruno with his size, weight, and muscle probably had heavier punches, which was probably true since in their second fight Bruno weighed almost 2 stone heavier.
But Tyson wasnt a power puncher like Foreman and Shavers, he relied on speed and leverage, plus his timing and combinations were very important to his KOs.

Also Tyson was a great counterpuncher. He knew where and wen to hit an opponent, and needed great technique (somthing he lost later in his career) whereas Foreman or Bruno had power in everything they threw. They had much heavier solid shots.

catskills23
08-30-2006, 04:23 PM
this is bruno one

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...st_uids=3936571

this is tyson one


http://ps2.gamezone.com/news/05_20_02_08_21PM.htm

here is your evidence.

Dirt E Gomez
08-30-2006, 04:28 PM
heart is heart. he only showed no heart in like 3 matches compared to over 60

Hah... you seem to be mistaking losing with Heart. You have to be tested or in trouble to truly show heart. Tyson, in his career only had a handful of opportunities to show hear and he is definately below .500 in those opportunities to show it.

The Noose
08-30-2006, 04:35 PM
this is bruno one

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...st_uids=3936571

this is tyson one


http://ps2.gamezone.com/news/05_20_02_08_21PM.htm

here is your evidence.

"Could this be the reason why 68% of the population believes that they would only last one minute in the ring with Tyson?"

Amazing how stupid people are.

Oh, and the first link didnt work for me.

Dempsey 1919
08-30-2006, 04:47 PM
"Could this be the reason why 68% of the population believes that they would only last one minute in the ring with Tyson?"

Amazing how stupid people are.

Oh, and the first link didnt work for me.

the first link didn't work with me either.

catskills23
08-30-2006, 05:02 PM
Why do you believe that tysons power is overrated?. Tyson didnt hit as hard as foreman or shavers but other than those 2 guys no heavyweight in history hit harder .

Dempsey 1919
08-30-2006, 05:11 PM
Why do you believe that tysons power is overrated?. Tyson didnt hit as hard as foreman or shavers but other than those 2 guys no heavyweight in history hit harder .

liston hit harder, lyle hit harder, possibly cooney, bruno, briggs, etc.

catskills23
08-30-2006, 06:04 PM
liston hit harder, lyle hit harder, possibly cooney, bruno, briggs, etc.

take bruno off the list . tests show tyson hit harder . Liston maybe . Cooney no michael spinks said tyson hit harder. why is briggs on that list?.

Cutthroat
08-30-2006, 06:29 PM
take bruno off the list . tests show tyson hit harder . Liston maybe . Cooney no michael spinks said tyson hit harder. why is briggs on that list?.


Yep, Tyson hit twice as hard as Bruno

Cutthroat
08-30-2006, 06:30 PM
Marciano was recorded at something like 1150 whereas Tyson was in the 1200-1300 range. I hardly call that twice the punching power of Marciano.

Tyson hit over 1,700, I've seen a vid. of him doing it

Cutthroat
08-30-2006, 06:33 PM
wald klischko is 1100psi
joe frazier is 850psi
joe louis is 980psi
earnie shavers is 1600psi+

Dye
08-30-2006, 06:40 PM
take bruno off the list . tests show tyson hit harder . Liston maybe . Cooney no michael spinks said tyson hit harder. why is briggs on that list?.
you are the same guy saying i dont know **** because i said that Pinklon thomas and Ruddock and Dave Jaco all said Tommy Morrison hit harder and now your saying it does say something, i knew it did how could it not you know when you get hit who hits harder

Southpaw Stinger
08-30-2006, 07:31 PM
Heres a good vid on Earnie Shavers dishing out tremendous power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F-_wMveVig

Verstyle
08-30-2006, 07:31 PM
Hah... you seem to be mistaking losing with Heart. You have to be tested or in trouble to truly show heart. Tyson, in his career only had a handful of opportunities to show hear and he is definately below .500 in those opportunities to show it.

getting your ass kicked and being hurt and dazed isn't in trouble? haahahhaa think about it

Dye
08-30-2006, 07:38 PM
Heres a good vid on Earnie Shavers dishing out tremendous power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F-_wMveVig
cool video thanks :)

The Noose
08-30-2006, 08:49 PM
Is there a difference between who hit harder and who had the more powerful punch?
Like i said before, Tyson didnt hit as hard as Foreman, Shavers etc, but he KO'd opponents with speed and timing.

IMO Tyson and Joe Louis are the best heavywieght punchers. Meaning their technique was excellent.

catskills23
08-31-2006, 05:33 AM
wald klischko is 1100psi
joe frazier is 850psi
joe louis is 980psi
earnie shavers is 1600psi+

those are figures you got off ring magazine who tested them but i dont recall them testing tysons punching power

Zigga
09-01-2006, 07:51 PM
Tyson was amazing when he was trained by cus and teddy and rooney, during this time he was one of the greatest no dout, threw lots of viciuos combos, excellent head movement even fought south paw sometimes.

Afeter prison he was never the graestest. I felt he always looked for the big shots too much and stopped moving his head like he used to. Didnt work the jab as much either. All round skills were not jaw dropping like they used to be.

When people talk about tysons heart every one has there own subjective interpretation of what heart is. My interpretation of heart describes tyson as not realy having one. Sure he took beatings but he never came back from one. Whenever it got tuff sure he hung in there a while but never came strong after punishment. Also imo Tyson was not the hardest hitter of all time.

BmoreBrawler
09-01-2006, 10:33 PM
I dont see anyone in boxing history beating Tyson in his prime, besides Ali if he somehow stayed out of the corner. How do you beat a man who can punch through any block or parry and render defense meaningless?

Heckler
09-01-2006, 11:01 PM
I dont see anyone in boxing history beating Tyson in his prime, besides Ali if he somehow stayed out of the corner. How do you beat a man who can punch through any block or parry and render defense meaningless?

You neutralise him in the clinches? You move laterally thus removing the oppurtunity for him to get his feet set? keep him turning? Foreman could punch through defences more sucessfully than Tyson ever did or could. So as soon as Ali get's trapped in a corner its over? ROFL... Ali is a master at neutralizing and minimizing the damage an attack inflicts whilst on the ropes.

Verstyle
09-01-2006, 11:44 PM
You neutralise him in the clinches? You move laterally thus removing the oppurtunity for him to get his feet set? keep him turning? Foreman could punch through defences more sucessfully than Tyson ever did or could. So as soon as Ali get's trapped in a corner its over? ROFL... Ali is a master at neutralizing and minimizing the damage an attack inflicts whilst on the ropes.


thats sounds good buuuuuuuuuuut when ever ppl do that to me i jus turn south paw and pop him,i have seen tyson do this also in the tyrell biggs fight

Abe Attell
09-01-2006, 11:48 PM
Marciano CAN hit harder than Tyson. He was one of the most intense punchers of all-time. His right on Walcott in their first fight is one of the most brutal things ever caught on tape.


He doesn't hit the hardest, agreed: I would say Shavers, Foreman, to name a small few, hit harder...even Tyson mentioned in an interview he thought Shavers and Foreman hit harder.
For MARCIANO, IN MY OPINION, HE DOES NOT HIT AS HARD AS TYSON...THAT GUY IS OVERRATED BY ITALIANS AND OTHER WHITES: he had great power for his weight, but it was not on the level of the top Heavyweights...it was great for a light-heavyweight/crusierweight which he really was. He fought lightheavyweights and cruiserweights, though he was on this level so I don't blame him.
Oh, I am of partial Italian decent so "F" off if you want to call me a racist, I am just being honest.
His one punch KO is as overrated as Tyson's, except Tyson's one punch was harder. I would say that Marciano was more of a accumulation power puncher, and for Tyson, his punch was more for stunning you with one punch.
Both fighters are not on the level of Foreman.

Tyson's chin was great, if it wasn't, he would of been knocked out a lot faster the way he fought after leaving Rooney. For him not getting back up to win after being knocked down, just furthers what I stated: it was his ability to absorb incredible amounts of punishment, refusing to go down, espeically fro flash knockdowns which he only suffered once against Holyfield which was more from being off balance...by the time you knocked him down, he usually took so much punishment, so many punches right on the chin, that there is no way you can come back.


For his speed: a 220lb fighter, he was the fastest in my opinion, especially for Power Punchers. Ali was probably faster, but weighed less, and didn't throw for power...if you know anything about boxing, you can throw faster when you throw flurries instead of throwing bombs.

The one big negative: I will use a quote from SportsCentury documentary...sorry if I don't know the guys name, but this was his quote, "Tyson was only as good as the program you put in him".

Abe Attell
09-02-2006, 12:00 AM
Why insist on being ignorant?

You dont know if he hit harder, there is no way to tell.

If I had to bet, I would say Tyson could hit harder because he was 30 lbs heavier in his prime (215 lbs) as opposed to the 185 lbs of Marciano.

However, I am not going to say something as definate as "Tyson could hit harder than Rocky" because that would be ignorant and arrogant...there is simply no way to know for sure.

However, you seem to have no problem talking in absolutes. Unfortunately, you are only making yourself look dumb. Either you are really such an egotistical prick, or you are trying to incite arguments (which has happened, judging by the language being thrown around in this thread).

but you can take an educated guess: take Tommy Hearns for example, one of the biggest punchers in his division, yet how many would argue he hit harder than Holyfield?
Holfield may not be the biggest puncher as a heavyweight, but in my opinion, and hopefully others, I lean towards Holyfield on this one for power

Abe Attell
09-02-2006, 12:04 AM
Ali would have destroyed Tyson. No questions asked. Not only would Ali dance circles around him, landing furious combinations, but he would probably stop Tyson late. Either by the ref, or by Tyson quitting, when he hits Ali with his best shot and Ali just keeps dancing. Tyson was awesome. But the truth is, he is no Muhammad Ali, and would be beaten by alot of fighters.


Tyson without Rooney, and especially D'Amato, agree, but mostly after his prison sentence...even after his loss with Douglas he did get back into decent shape and have a bit of his old head movement back, though not nearly as good. After prison, I don't know what that was.

I will say he stood a chance against Ali for these reasons:
Tyson, though perceived to be weak mentally, was not so with Rooney and D'Amato in his head. D'Amato would of told him to ignore the bull**** out of Ali's mouth, and Tyson would of listened. D'Amato always claimed he knew how to beat Ali, he just needed the fighter to do so. Tyson had the ability to throw fast, sharp, powerfull, combinations, while sprinting forward, and with Ali moving backwards with his hands down, it would be more in Tyson's favor for this action.
I remember watching the show "Duke it Out" with Ali and D'Amato and Ali asked D'Amato something on the lines of "how in the world is Frazier going to beat me"...of course this was no longer the same Ali that beat Liston, but D'Amato showed
him (Ali) how he could be stopped...pretty funny since D'Amato looked very fast, especially for an old guy, with Ali responding, "Frazier don't move that fast"

The worst fighter would of probably been Foreman...Ali was the other problematic opponent for Tyson in a fantasy matchup, but I have a little more confidence in Tyson winning against Ali than someone like a prime Foreman. People like to talk about Foreman's big, wide, hooks that came from South America, but it would be his uppercut that would of probably been his best weapon against Tyson.

Verstyle
09-02-2006, 12:05 AM
its funny how u guys quote skydog since he hasnt posted here since last year.ahaaha

BmoreBrawler
09-02-2006, 12:45 AM
You neutralise him in the clinches? You move laterally thus removing the oppurtunity for him to get his feet set? keep him turning? Foreman could punch through defences more sucessfully than Tyson ever did or could. So as soon as Ali get's trapped in a corner its over? ROFL... Ali is a master at neutralizing and minimizing the damage an attack inflicts whilst on the ropes.

Tyson had the SPEED to counter any strategy, and I dont know what Ali would have done after 2-3 body shots from tyson in a corner. Ali's speed and accuracy could have beat tyson in the middle of the ring though.

Cutthroat
09-02-2006, 01:32 AM
I think Marciano was overrated too, not because of his race or the color of his skin but because of the level of comp. back in the day. You're talking over 60 years ago, guys are WAY bigger and stronger than they would've been that long ago. And yes, it's more likely that if you lift more you can punch harder. A guy who can only bench 100 won't beat a guy who can bench 300. They didn't have the training techniques we have today, they were sort of "Primitive" compared to what boxers do today. Marciano wouldn't last in his prime against boxers today, his record at best would be with at least 10 lossess. He was good back then, he wouldn't be able to handle the level of comp. today. He wasn't that hard of a puncher, it's just that people had weak chins back then.

Verstyle
09-02-2006, 01:41 AM
I think Marciano was overrated too, not because of his race or the color of his skin but because of the level of comp. back in the day. You're talking over 60 years ago, guys are WAY bigger and stronger than they would've been that long ago. And yes, it's more likely that if you lift more you can punch harder. A guy who can only bench 100 won't beat a guy who can bench 300. They didn't have the training techniques we have today, they were sort of "Primitive" compared to what boxers do today. Marciano wouldn't last in his prime against boxers today, his record at best would be with at least 10 lossess. He was good back then, he wouldn't be able to handle the level of comp. today. He wasn't that hard of a puncher, it's just that people had weak chins back then.


u will recieve so much **** for that comment

Cutthroat
09-02-2006, 02:06 AM
I know but it's the truth :cool:

Piggu
09-02-2006, 02:08 AM
I think Marciano was overrated too, not because of his race or the color of his skin but because of the level of comp. back in the day. You're talking over 60 years ago, guys are WAY bigger and stronger than they would've been that long ago. And yes, it's more likely that if you lift more you can punch harder. A guy who can only bench 100 won't beat a guy who can bench 300. They didn't have the training techniques we have today, they were sort of "Primitive" compared to what boxers do today. Marciano wouldn't last in his prime against boxers today, his record at best would be with at least 10 lossess. He was good back then, he wouldn't be able to handle the level of comp. today. He wasn't that hard of a puncher, it's just that people had weak chins back then.
Well if Marciano was around now, wouldn't he also be bigger and stronger?

Cutthroat
09-02-2006, 02:10 AM
Well if Marciano was around now, wouldn't he also be bigger and stronger?


I'm talking if like somehow we made a time machine and everything :P. Marciano would definatley be bigger if he had the equipment boxers have these days. I'm comparing Rocky's skills to boxers skills today

Cutthroat
09-02-2006, 02:14 AM
It's like this...


Body builders back then:

http://galeriekulturistiky.webz.cz/arnold/Arnold%2011.jpg


Body builders today:

http://www.strangesports.com/images/content/110714.jpg

...

Abe Attell
09-02-2006, 02:29 AM
Tyson had the SPEED to counter any strategy, and I dont know what Ali would have done after 2-3 body shots from tyson in a corner. Ali's speed and accuracy could have beat tyson in the middle of the ring though.


I think it was Shavers who mentioned that the one thing he was able to do was hit Ali with the right because Ali tended to drop his hand after he jabbed.

Who knows, both fighters were something in their prime.

Abe Attell
09-02-2006, 02:40 AM
I think Marciano was overrated too, not because of his race or the color of his skin but because of the level of comp. back in the day. You're talking over 60 years ago, guys are WAY bigger and stronger than they would've been that long ago. And yes, it's more likely that if you lift more you can punch harder. A guy who can only bench 100 won't beat a guy who can bench 300. They didn't have the training techniques we have today, they were sort of "Primitive" compared to what boxers do today. Marciano wouldn't last in his prime against boxers today, his record at best would be with at least 10 lossess. He was good back then, he wouldn't be able to handle the level of comp. today. He wasn't that hard of a puncher, it's just that people had weak chins back then.


I understand what you are trying to say, but guys back then were strong. Recent Studies have shown that Testosterone levels have dropped in men. Why? If I had to take a guess it is because the "Old timers" were working in the fields, docks, steel-mills, iron masons, etc. Guys were strong even though their physical appearence may not have reflected the same look as the fighters today because of the nutrition, exact weight lifting for increasing size, and "Supplements" (for some) ;)

Take even the "Steroid" users like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Franko Columbu: Arnold was much bigger, but he wasn't stronger than Franko. Your Genes, which can enable you to have higher levels of hormones than the "normal" male, and the muscle fibers you are born with in your body, have a lot to do with how strong you are.

Abe Attell
09-02-2006, 02:41 AM
"F" Steroids though, we are talking about "Natural" athletes


Eugene Sandow is one of my favorite "Natural" bodybuilders...he wasn't just built and shredded, but he was incredibly strong

Eugene at only 19 years old


http://www.sandowmuseum.com/SandowEugen19.jpg

catskills23
09-02-2006, 05:04 AM
It's like this...


Body builders back then:

http://galeriekulturistiky.webz.cz/arnold/Arnold%2011.jpg


Body builders today:

http://www.strangesports.com/images/content/110714.jpg

...

holy **** when did bodybuilders start to look like that . that dude must be the strongest guy on earth hes bigger than a ****in bull . if that guy boxed he would literally decapitate any heavyweight boxer.

Southpaw Stinger
09-02-2006, 07:53 AM
holy **** when did bodybuilders start to look like that . that dude must be the strongest guy on earth hes bigger than a ****in bull . if that guy boxed he would literally decapitate any heavyweight boxer.

First off, Muscles do not equate punching power. You can get these heavily built guys and they throw weak ass punchers.
And second, do you think that pic is genuine?

Temporary
09-02-2006, 08:11 AM
stop talkin sht skydog, no fighter dat lived 70+ yrs ago cud match heavyweigth these days, they fuken suckes, now ur gona tell me jack johnson hit harder then tyson,

Maybe not, but he plays some SWEET hippy music.


Tyson is overrated by his fans, underrated by his critics....quite funny actually.

Kid Achilles
09-02-2006, 08:50 AM
I think Marciano was overrated too, not because of his race or the color of his skin but because of the level of comp. back in the day. You're talking over 60 years ago, guys are WAY bigger and stronger than they would've been that long ago. And yes, it's more likely that if you lift more you can punch harder. A guy who can only bench 100 won't beat a guy who can bench 300. They didn't have the training techniques we have today, they were sort of "Primitive" compared to what boxers do today. Marciano wouldn't last in his prime against boxers today, his record at best would be with at least 10 lossess. He was good back then, he wouldn't be able to handle the level of comp. today. He wasn't that hard of a puncher, it's just that people had weak chins back then.

What the hell are you talking about? People did not have worse chins back then. A fighters chin is purely genetic and has nothing to do with strength or musculature. The modern athlete with weight training is not going to take a better punch than a version of said athlete who fought in the 50's, at a more natural weight, who didn't use modern strength training methods. That is one of the more ludicrous things I've heard on this forum and that's really saying something.

kadyo
09-02-2006, 08:58 AM
Okay, first and foremost, Mike Tyson is without a doubt a good boxer. He hit hard, had quick hands, and had a solid chin. At one time, he was one of my favorite boxers.

But then pieces of **** on this site come and just make me want to go against him. People say he can hit the hardest, has a very good chin, and is the greatest of all-time.

First of all, no way in hell does Tyson hit the hardest. Liston, Cooney, and Marciano (to name a few) could all hit harder than Tyson. And then, of course, you have George Foreman. I've actually heard people say Tyson hit harder than George. First of all, George lifted Joe Frazier off of his feet with and uppercut. And that was an uppercut with no body or ground behind it. That was Foreman just throwing his arm upwards. That's ****ing power. Tyson always used his full body when throwing an uppercut, but I never saw him knock anyone off of their feet! Joe Frazier, Joe Louis, and Jack Dempsey hit just as hard as Tyson. Frazier hit Chuvalo with a left hook that TORE HIS ****ING EYE OUT OF IT'S SOCKET. Tyson's left hook can't compare to the feroctiy and fire of Joe's left hook. Louis and Dempsey's handspeed is better than Tyson, with just as much power. Louis's uppercuts were much more brutal than Tyson's.

People have said that Tyson has a better chin than Joe Frazier. This almost as bad as saying that he hit as hard as Foreman. Joe went 42 rounds with Ali, who hit much harder than most people thought and was nailing Joe with some of the hardest and fastest combinations he's ever thrown in those 3 fights. He never floored Joe once. Joe was hit a few times by Quarry's deadly right, but it didn't shake him and he beat the hell out of him. Bonavena floored Joe twice, but Joe went another 8 rounds and won the fight. If you want to criticize Joe for his performance against George, it was only the hardest hitting champion of all-time. No big deal. Tyson has fought Holyfield and Douglas, both of who are not considered punchers, and was beaten to a pulp by them. Tyson quit to ****ing Kevin McBride.

Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey, and Rocky Marciano would all have given Tyson a hell of a beating and would have pounded respect for them into his mind with their fists.

I'm sorry that these people have stripped my feelings towards Tyson down to this, but these Tyson fanatics have driven nothing but anger and hate towards Tyson, which I don't like because he was a great boxer.
maybe you should ask him to give one punch in the chin...

catskills23
09-02-2006, 09:55 AM
First off, Muscles do not equate punching power. You can get these heavily built guys and they throw weak ass punchers.
And second, do you think that pic is genuine?

what makes you think that pic isnt genuine?.

Southpaw Stinger
09-02-2006, 09:58 AM
what makes you think that pic isnt genuine?.

Theres been a lot of these photoshopped as of late. The right hand and head don't match and it's obviously been blown up.

Either way, these guys are just a mass of steroids, purely for show. They can barely walk at a decent pase and there movements are restricted. Definatly not fighting material.

The Noose
09-02-2006, 10:59 AM
thats sounds good buuuuuuuuuuut when ever ppl do that to me i jus turn south paw and pop him,i have seen tyson do this also in the tyrell biggs fight

He did turn lefty quite a bit, but some fighters who gave Tyson trouble, or at least frustrated him were guys who moved and knew wen to clinch.
People like Tillis, and Thomas, gave him movement and clinched at the right time.
They used their jab to break his rhythm. And his attacks became less aggresive and his energy level seemed to drop off.

But i think alot of it was Tyson becoming a bit bored, and losing focus. Against Thomas in the last round he burst into life and KO'd him.

I think Ali could take his body shots as did most of Tysons opponents, and his chin was good enough to not get KO'd.
But id like to see if Ali could land enough without being countered. I think he could.

The Noose
09-02-2006, 11:03 AM
what makes you think that pic isnt genuine?.

Photoshop!!

Its ****ing obvious no one could get that big. The guy wouldnt be able to walk let alone lift weights.

And look at the background. The image has been moved and stretched out using photoshop. Just look at how big his ****ing veins are! lol

Kid Achilles
09-02-2006, 11:07 AM
Very touched up-ey in my opinion. Clearly a photoshop, and not even a good one.

Cutthroat
09-02-2006, 12:42 PM
What the hell are you talking about? People did not have worse chins back then. A fighters chin is purely genetic and has nothing to do with strength or musculature. The modern athlete with weight training is not going to take a better punch than a version of said athlete who fought in the 50's, at a more natural weight, who didn't use modern strength training methods. That is one of the more ludicrous things I've heard on this forum and that's really saying something.


You're going to have a better chin if you take a punch from a 6'2 250lb monster than if you were to get hit back then by a 200lb guy. A fighter's chin is purely genetic? So you're saying that if James Toney NEVER fought in his life (He does have a great chin since he's never been Ko'd before), and just suddenly decided to fight classess below his weight like the welterweight champion of the world that he wouldn't get knocked out by one punch? Bull.

Cutthroat
09-02-2006, 12:44 PM
Very touched up-ey in my opinion. Clearly a photoshop, and not even a good one.


That was an exaggeration lol, I just wanted find a pic. of a big guy now days and how they looked then.


Here, this one is real:

http://www.toneatronic.com/tone/images/bodybuilderems.jpg

Kid Achilles
09-02-2006, 12:52 PM
You're going to have a better chin if you take a punch from a 6'2 250lb monster than if you were to get hit back then by a 200lb guy. A fighter's chin is purely genetic? So you're saying that if James Toney NEVER fought in his life (He does have a great chin since he's never been Ko'd before), and just suddenly decided to fight classess below his weight like the welterweight champion of the world that he wouldn't get knocked out by one punch? Bull.

Please rephrase what I put in bold, as I don't think I can understand what you meant to say. Toney's chin is what it would be if he never boxed if that's what your asking.. A fighter's chin is a result of their bone structure, and the viscosity of the fluid surrounding their brain. Of course a hypothetical unskilled Toney would get the **** beaten out of him if he tried fighting a world champion with no prior boxing experience, but that has nothing to do with his chin.

Kid Achilles
09-02-2006, 12:56 PM
Also as to what you are saying about 250 pound fighters and whatnot, guys in the 200-220 pound range hit harder and more explosively than the heavier but slower men. The huge guys just can't get all of their weight into their punches like the smaller heavyweights can. Remember, Foreman, Tyson, and Shavers were all in the 210-220 range.

I'd rather get hit barefisted by 270 pound Jameel McCline than a 190-200 lb powerhouse Dempsey or Louis or a 220 pound Tyson.

Abe Attell
09-02-2006, 12:59 PM
You're going to have a better chin if you take a punch from a 6'2 250lb monster than if you were to get hit back then by a 200lb guy. A fighter's chin is purely genetic? So you're saying that if James Toney NEVER fought in his life (He does have a great chin since he's never been Ko'd before), and just suddenly decided to fight classess below his weight like the welterweight champion of the world that he wouldn't get knocked out by one punch? Bull.


Foreman was 220+ in his prime and I bet he could hit harder than Jameel McCline and Shannon Briggs. Just look at the Russian Valuev, the guy doesn't seem to hit as hard as Lennox, Wlad, Tyson, etc.

A "Chin" is part genetic and part getting used to taking punches...if you don't have a "chin" you are probably not going to go to far as a fighter...certain things you are just born with, and like I said before "F" these steroid frauds.

Abe Attell
09-02-2006, 01:02 PM
Also as to what you are saying about 250 pound fighters and whatnot, guys in the 200-220 pound range hit harder and more explosively than the heavier but slower men. The huge guys just can't get all of their weight into their punches like the smaller heavyweights can. Remember, Foreman, Tyson, and Shavers were all in the 210-220 range.

I'd rather get hit barefisted by 270 pound Jameel McCline than a 190-200 lb powerhouse Dempsey or Louis or a 220 pound Tyson.


yup...the fact is, humans can only get so big before it hurts their performance

The Noose
09-02-2006, 01:04 PM
You're going to have a better chin if you take a punch from a 6'2 250lb monster than if you were to get hit back then by a 200lb guy. A fighter's chin is purely genetic? So you're saying that if James Toney NEVER fought in his life (He does have a great chin since he's never been Ko'd before), and just suddenly decided to fight classess below his weight like the welterweight champion of the world that he wouldn't get knocked out by one punch? Bull.

U said Marciano was overrated because his opponents werent as big as they are now. Therefore he looked more impressive that he was.

But he still fought men bigger than himself, as Tyson did. If u say that he couldnt handle the heavies of today because they are bigger and stronger now, then u are saying that Louis, Dempsey etc are ALL overrated.

As for chins, bigger size doesnt equal better chins. Marciano had a great chin, and he was smaller than most of his opponents.

Verstyle
09-02-2006, 01:48 PM
He did turn lefty quite a bit, but some fighters who gave Tyson trouble, or at least frustrated him were guys who moved and knew wen to clinch.
People like Tillis, and Thomas, gave him movement and clinched at the right time.
They used their jab to break his rhythm. And his attacks became less aggresive and his energy level seemed to drop off.

But i think alot of it was Tyson becoming a bit bored, and losing focus. Against Thomas in the last round he burst into life and KO'd him.

I think Ali could take his body shots as did most of Tysons opponents, and his chin was good enough to not get KO'd.
But id like to see if Ali could land enough without being countered. I think he could.

i think vs.bonecrusher smith is the best 1,he did it perfect,he jus didnt punch

micky_knox
09-02-2006, 04:25 PM
tyson was awesome and deserves to be rememberd as one of the greatest of all time.........

:boxing:

vandiar
09-02-2006, 06:05 PM
lmfao @ tysons talents being overrated.

Abe Attell
09-02-2006, 10:46 PM
U said Marciano was overrated because his opponents werent as big as they are now. Therefore he looked more impressive that he was.

But he still fought men bigger than himself, as Tyson did. If u say that he couldnt handle the heavies of today because they are bigger and stronger now, then u are saying that Louis, Dempsey etc are ALL overrated.

As for chins, bigger size doesnt equal better chins. Marciano had a great chin, and he was smaller than most of his opponents.


I actually consider Louis and Dempsey as better fighters.

All three fighters would be bigger in todays game, but Louis and Dempsey would handle the weight much better than Marciano in my opinion. Dempsey was so used to making such a light weight that he continued to stay at such a weight, even though is body frame seemed to be to big for such a low weight

catskills23
09-05-2006, 03:04 PM
Tyson hit over 1,700, I've seen a vid. of him doing it

dont listen to this guy he is a lying mother****er . i searched all over the net for this so called video and there is no ****in video. the guy says he cant even remember the site he saw this video on. he is full of **** .

SquareCircle
09-10-2006, 03:15 PM
from what i seen and not what ppl go by i would have to say 1.ali,2.louis,3.tyson

whnat the **** man? seriously, what the FUC? Tyson at #3? Get off the nugthugging, it's starting to annoy me which is a shame cuz you are a pretty cool poster.

Verstyle
09-10-2006, 03:27 PM
whnat the **** man? seriously, what the FUC? Tyson at #3? Get off the nugthugging, it's starting to annoy me which is a shame cuz you are a pretty cool poster.


i rate on what I see not what ppl say.if i havnt seen those other ppl really fight but 1 match how can i myself rate them high.think about that. i dont go by what ppl say i go by what i see.

SquareCircle
09-10-2006, 03:29 PM
i rate on what I see not what ppl say.if i havnt seen those other ppl really fight but 1 match how can i myself rate them high.think about that
liston should be in front of tyson...

you gotta think about how easily tyson was defeated and how he ducked foreman etc and place his ass at 8

Verstyle
09-10-2006, 03:34 PM
liston should be in front of tyson...

you gotta think about how easily tyson was defeated and how he ducked foreman etc and place his ass at 8


i really havnt seen liston fight so how can i rate him higher then tyson?and did u see how easily ali defeated liston? and what does ducking have to do with placement?if that was the case alot of ppl would be outta place. and please remember its my opinion and no1 can change that. once again i dont rate ppl i really havnt seen fight

T.N.T
09-10-2006, 05:44 PM
lmfao @ tysons talents being overrated.

Without being a ***** i must say every great fighter has been overated its just natural.

BmoreBrawler
09-10-2006, 07:42 PM
Without speed, everything tyson did besides the left hook was garbage. when he had unparallelled speed early in his career he could have beaten anyone. A slow tyson has too many physical and mental deficiencies to overcome.

Verstyle
09-10-2006, 07:45 PM
Without speed, everything tyson did besides the left hook was garbage. when he had unparallelled speed early in his career he could have beaten anyone. A slow tyson has too many physical and mental deficiencies to overcome.


ahahahaaha. so his defense sucked and his ability to cut off the ring also?and his ability to go either southpaw or orthodox and have almost equal power?

BmoreBrawler
09-10-2006, 08:24 PM
ahahahaaha. so his defense sucked and his ability to cut off the ring also?and his ability to go either southpaw or orthodox and have almost equal power?

Dont you understand that as Tyson's speed declined so did everything else? Why did his Defense suck after he got slow? Why did his ability to switch styles become irrelevant once he lost his ablity to rush guys? Everything was based on the speed, and without that Tyson was basically nothing, just a short, strong jeremy bates-style guy.

When Tyson DID have his speed, he could have beaten anyone ever in boxing.

Verstyle
09-10-2006, 08:26 PM
Dont you understand that as Tyson's speed declined so did everything else? Why did his Defense suck after he got slow? Why did his ability to switch styles become irrelevant once he lost his ablity to rush guys? Everything was based on the speed, and without that Tyson was basically nothing, just a short, strong jeremy bates-style guy.

When Tyson DID have his speed, he could have beaten anyone ever in boxing.


he defense sucked cause he tried jus rushing guys with 1 hitter quiters,and he didnt lose his ability to rush guys he jus stopped doing it cause he was looking for the big shot.if u look at his sparring and him hitting the mitts in his late 30s u can still see the speed there.

BmoreBrawler
09-10-2006, 08:32 PM
Punch speed, yes, but not enough leg speed to make the peekaboo style effective. He couldnt move and was forced to catch jabs instead of slip them and use the hook.

Verstyle
09-10-2006, 08:33 PM
Punch speed, yes, but not enough leg speed to make the peekaboo style effective. He couldnt move and was forced to catch jabs instead of slip them and use the hook.


ok i'll give u that 1

The Noose
09-10-2006, 09:00 PM
Im not sure Tysons decline was about his speed.

IMO it was more about his style or technique. The way he would set up his attacks. Against Bruno, his first fight without Rooney, he made the big mistake alot of KO fighters do. He believed he could KO him with one shot. And didnt use his jab properly.

At his best Tyson wouldnt stand in front of his opponents, he would hardly ever be static. He would move forward, moving his head and wait for his opponents to throw a jab, thats wen Tyson would strike. Maybe with his own jab or right hand.

Tyson stopped doing that wen Rooney left. He was very poor against Ruddock in their rematch. Before he went to prison.

BmoreBrawler
09-10-2006, 09:36 PM
good points, although i would argue that those mean that either tyson CHOSE to not use his speed and eventually lost it, or he just didnt have it anymore. I would say that before prison he began to lose his style, though after prison he had to weight lift and for other reasons too lost his speed.

Verstyle
09-10-2006, 09:46 PM
good points, although i would argue that those mean that either tyson CHOSE to not use his speed and eventually lost it, or he just didnt have it anymore. I would say that before prison he began to lose his style, though after prison he had to weight lift and for other reasons too lost his speed.


reason why i dont lift weights,along with me not wanting to look all huge. i have very fast hands for my size and i wanna keep it like that without gaining more muscle

Abe Attell
09-10-2006, 11:17 PM
liston should be in front of tyson...

you gotta think about how easily tyson was defeated and how he ducked foreman etc and place his ass at 8


But when was he defeated and WHY?

It's about knowing the details that makes you smart.



Imagine if I were to say, "Tyson beat Holmes easily, so Larry Holmes sucks because Tyson was beaten easily"
or
"Holmes beat Ali with no trouble, but since Holmes lost to Tyson (who was beaten easily, they all suck"

Abe Attell
09-10-2006, 11:23 PM
Without speed, everything tyson did besides the left hook was garbage. when he had unparallelled speed early in his career he could have beaten anyone. A slow tyson has too many physical and mental deficiencies to overcome.


WTF kind of **** is that...Well without Power what would Foreman be...without Speed what would Carl Lewis be?...without intelligence what would Einstein be...without agility what would Willie Pepe be...get my point?

You can't cancel out a "natural" ability like that

Tyson still had incredible accuracy in his prime, and that takes loads of work, so how is that "Garbage"?
His jab is also very underrated...just because he didn't throw it the same amount of Ali and Holmes, doesn't mean his jab didn't work.

Abe Attell
09-10-2006, 11:27 PM
Punch speed, yes, but not enough leg speed to make the peekaboo style effective. He couldnt move and was forced to catch jabs instead of slip them and use the hook.


If Tyson used the exact "peek-a-boo" style that Floyd and Jose used he wouldn't have used his legs like he did, he would just plot...Tyson used the peek-a-boo better than they did because he improved it based on his own natural abilities, one being his abilty to move quickly with his feet to make up the difference.

The Noose
09-10-2006, 11:29 PM
good points, although i would argue that those mean that either tyson CHOSE to not use his speed and eventually lost it, or he just didnt have it anymore. I would say that before prison he began to lose his style, though after prison he had to weight lift and for other reasons too lost his speed.

I think that the reason he was beaten by Douglas wasnt his lack of speed, it was his lazy unfocused approach. Rooney wasnt there to keep him focused or tell him to try different things (body shots, jabs etc).
I dont think much cghanged after the Douglas fight except he landed big shots early or against Ruddock he fought back well, unlike in the Douglas fight.

IMO it wasnt that he chose not to use his speed, but his speed was only effective wen he threw combinations or countered. Which he stopped doing.

I just think the biggest factor in his rapid decline was Rooney not being in his corner. Against Thomas Tyson got lazy and let Thomas into the fight. Rooney had to 'wake' him up, and only then did Tyson explode in the 6th to KO Thomas.

Abe Attell
09-10-2006, 11:45 PM
Without Rooney, Tyson declined fast...
Rooney used to always yell instructions to Tyson as he was fighting, that was key to Tyson winning as well...I don't want to take anything away from Tyson since he was the one with the ability and talent, but sometimes if you have a great trainer that works for you, it could make all the difference in making a fight easier.

A great quote from the SportsCentury was "Tyson was as good as the program you put in him" - not sure who said it so I will have to go back and check when I get time.


Just check out Rooney yelling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jp0-7FuiJk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUtAMOzvKZA


I think the Tucker fight is a good example of Mike having an "off" day and Rooney kicking him in the ass to keep him moving...all fighters/athletes have off days, on this day it happened to Mike, but Mike still won...I think if it weren't for Rooney thought, Mike would of had a lot more trouble...I also like the way Mike was back then with Rooney: after the fight Tyson looked disappointed and said so to Larry Merchent...he was never really satisfied with his performances back then because Rooney, who learned from Cus, taught this way, "you can always do better"...When Mike had that attitude around him, he was incredible, but when he got that Don King "I am the best, nobody is better" bull**** in his mind, he declined.

BmoreBrawler
09-11-2006, 12:21 AM
WTF kind of **** is that...Well without Power what would Foreman be...without Speed what would Carl Lewis be?...without intelligence what would Einstein be...without agility what would Willie Pepe be...get my point?

You can't cancel out a "natural" ability like that



Um, tysons leg speed was obviously not a natural ability. why? because he lost it.

BmoreBrawler
09-11-2006, 12:22 AM
If Tyson used the exact "peek-a-boo" style that Floyd and Jose used he wouldn't have used his legs like he did, he would just plot...Tyson used the peek-a-boo better than they did because he improved it based on his own natural abilities, one being his abilty to move quickly with his feet to make up the difference.

yep. and once he lost that speed his whole style went to crap.

And as far as his loss to douglass, the guy just didnt train at all, plus like yall said trashing rooney was a HUGE mistake.

Verstyle
09-11-2006, 12:30 AM
Um, tysons leg speed was obviously not a natural ability. why? because he lost it.


honestly he jus never used it again. i've never seen him try to use it again after his prime

Southpaw Stinger
09-11-2006, 08:57 AM
honestly he jus never used it again. i've never seen him try to use it again after his prime

Maybe he didn't have the stamina or the fleet footedness to use it again?

Yaman
09-11-2006, 12:25 PM
Maybe he didn't have the stamina or the fleet footedness to use it again?

I think he didnt have the effort for it, and his style changed a lot.

Madcow
09-12-2006, 01:54 AM
No doubt that Tyson was overrated. He was a physical phenom who came along at a weak point in heavyweight history. The sad truth is that Tyson lost to the first person who fought back (Buster Douglas) and proceeded to lose to everyone with a heart and a back bone after that.

Ali runs rings around Tyson and makes him quit on his stool.

Marciano and Louis out-gut Tyson and K.O. him.

Etc, etc, etc....

Tyson probably doesn't even belong on a top 10 all-time heavyweight list.

Abe Attell
09-12-2006, 05:39 AM
No doubt that Tyson was overrated. He was a physical phenom who came along at a weak point in heavyweight history. The sad truth is that Tyson lost to the first person who fought back (Buster Douglas) and proceeded to lose to everyone with a heart and a back bone after that.

Ali runs rings around Tyson and makes him quit on his stool.

Marciano and Louis out-gut Tyson and K.O. him.

Etc, etc, etc....

Tyson probably doesn't even belong on a top 10 all-time heavyweight list.

WOW great post :rolleyes:

So by your logic, Mike went 37 straight fights without a fighter fighting back :confused: I can't believe people wouldn't be pissed that the other guy didn't throw any punches.

Tyson was probably more likely to "lay down" without guidance, true, but with strong people around him, Tyson did well.
That's why I liked that quote from Sports-Century on Tyson,
"Mike Tyson is only as good as the program you put into him".

Even post Rooney, and after he got his ass kicked by Douglas, Mike did seem like he at least tried to regain his stature, though not getting back with Rooney would forever keep his skills at a low point. You don't think fighter's were gunning for him after his defeat with Douglas? how did he still manage to win?


When Mike was with Rooney, how many losses did he have?

If you can't notice the difference between Mike with Rooney and Mike without Rooney, then it shows that you can't be objective.


this is a good interview
http://tysontalk.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=532


Oh, Marciano also came at a time when the division was "Weak", the fighters he faced, Charles, Moore, Walcott, it wasn't like they were undefeated or haven't been knocked out before...I also wouldn't call these guys "Heavyweights"

The Noose
09-12-2006, 03:38 PM
True.

To say "Tyson gets beat by anyone who fights back or stands up to him" is total bull****.

Tillis fought well against Tyson, as did Tucker. The young hungry Tyson kept on the pressure and broke them down. He didnt just rely on a big punch, but used his jab and outworked them.

The same with Biggs. Who tried to move and box but Tyson's pressure soon tired him out.

Also, after the Douglas fight, Ruddock truly believed he could beat Tyson, and Tyson fought back well both times.

After prison he fought nobodies, and just look at the way Holyfied was able to push Tyson back so easily. He had game plan, no technique, and no real fight in him anymore.

Madcow
09-12-2006, 04:13 PM
...I'm talking about a legit fighter with a legit chance who wasn't pissing in his pants by the Mike Tyson "legend."- and Don't even begin to tell me that at leat 95% of his early opponents weren't buying into the Tyson myth and ready to be eaten alive by the opening bell- or using their experience to just stay alive to see the end of the fight. Hell, even a quality guy like Spinks was ready to take a seat ASAP and Damn Bruce Seldon was KO'd buy a punch to the 'fro. Hype lasts a long time and even brainwashes some intelligent people into thinking that a good fighter was a great one.

Tyson was a fun fighter to watch, but he was like the charcters from the Wizard of Oz- No Heart, No Brain and No Courage. And when his physical gifts were drying up and there was no one to whisper advice in his ear, he was brought down to his proper level. A great fighter is characterized by all aspects of his career- early in his prime as well as later on when he's a bit slower. Look at Ali as an example of greatness. 5 years, no matter how dominant, do not make a great career.

Still, his physical gifts place him maybe in the top 20.

Abe Attell
09-12-2006, 05:10 PM
Ask yourself, why were they scared?

How are "legends" built?

Mike’s talent was what made them scared.

Lets not forget that having "Fear" is normal, and it is those that are able to conquer there fear(s) that allow them to have a chance at succeeding.

"A character from the Wizard of Oz" ???...If Mike had no heart, courage, brain, etc. how the hell did he win 37 straight fights, including becoming the youngest Heavyweight Champion in history?


No heart? why try to fight on in the Douglas fight after getting your ass kicked in round after round...when he was knocked down, why get up?

In the Bruno fight, he was staggered, yet he fought back...the same was true in the Ruddock fight...in the Holyfield fight he was "out on his feet" at the end of the 10th, but came out the next round.


"5 years doesn't make a great career"
Sandy Koufax :D

The Noose
09-12-2006, 05:15 PM
...I'm talking about a legit fighter with a legit chance who wasn't pissing in his pants by the Mike Tyson "legend."- and Don't even begin to tell me that at leat 95% of his early opponents weren't buying into the Tyson myth and ready to be eaten alive by the opening bell- or using their experience to just stay alive to see the end of the fight. Hell, even a quality guy like Spinks was ready to take a seat ASAP and Damn Bruce Seldon was KO'd buy a punch to the 'fro. Hype lasts a long time and even brainwashes some intelligent people into thinking that a good fighter was a great one.

Tyson was a fun fighter to watch, but he was like the charcters from the Wizard of Oz- No Heart, No Brain and No Courage. And when his physical gifts were drying up and there was no one to whisper advice in his ear, he was brought down to his proper level. A great fighter is characterized by all aspects of his career- early in his prime as well as later on when he's a bit slower. Look at Ali as an example of greatness. 5 years, no matter how dominant, do not make a great career.

Still, his physical gifts place him maybe in the top 20.

Buster Douglas was a legit fighter?
He was a 40-1 underdog.
As for his early opponents buying into a myth...there was no myth early on. He built a reputation due to his 19 W 19 KO record. They were KO'd. No excuses.

No one believed Tyson was a great fighter because of the Seldon fight. It wasnt Tysons fault that Seldon pissed himself and pussied out.

Your quote..."The sad truth is that Tyson lost to the first person who fought back (Buster Douglas) and proceeded to lose to everyone with a heart and a back bone after that." Like i said, he fought back well against Ruddock, and after prison was shot.

But ur rite.

A great fighter needs to be great for more than a few years.
BUT at his best he was great, he just never proved it against a worthy opponent.

Abe Attell
09-12-2006, 05:17 PM
He burned out mentally, but it is understandable...it wasn't from fighting inside the ring either, it was the **** he had to deal with outside.

It was his fault for getting rid of Rooney


I stated before as an "idea", IF YOU WERE IN YOUR EARLY 20'S, CHAMPION OF THE WORLD, AND YOU DON'T WANT TO FIGHT ANYMORE, HOW DO YOU GET OUT?

Tyson's flaws may have been mental, but it does take mental strength to step into the ring and fight

The Noose
09-12-2006, 05:32 PM
As good as Tyson was, ive never known a fighter so dependent on his corner.

I think alot of people get confused between post-prison Tyson, and 1980's Tyson.
Its not just hype, or wishful thinking. In the last week i got his whole career. Every fight, from beginning to end. All full fights.
And i forgot how good he was.

Its easy to see it now, the change in him as he got older. But he really was that good wen he was young IMO.

Abe Attell
09-12-2006, 05:38 PM
true...Tyson seemed very reliant on his corner...I think a lot had to do with the way he was raised and having not been able to have those key years where your "Father" is supposed to teach you how to be a "Man"...Tyson was still a work in progress when D'Amato died.

A good quote from D'amato goes something like this
"I am not successful when my fighter becomes a Champion, but it is when my fighter becomes a Champion, and is able to stand on his own two feet without my help...it is when my fighter doesn't need me anymore, that I am successful"

Just look at the two examples, Floyd Patterson and Joes Torres, both street kids that went and learned from D'amato...they were D'amato's finished products, Tyson was not finished.


In the military it is the same thing: the drill instructor is there to break you down, then rebuild you. It is his job to make sure you can stand on your own to feet without his help when there is a war.

A "Father" is supposed to do the same thing

The Noose
09-12-2006, 05:50 PM
Yea, but alot of fighters come from the street and didnt have somone like Cus to be a mentor.
I think Tyson was very lucky.

Its strange. Tyson at times acts like a moron and talks ****, he's like a kid. Then at othet times he says things which are more intelligent and insightful than any other sportsman athlete i can think of.

Anyway.
Getting bacjk to the topic.
Tysons talenst arent overrated. But maybe his place as a great fighter is.

Abe Attell
09-12-2006, 06:07 PM
When talking about "All time great" status, he was more of a "could have been" instead of a "Was" when looking at his entire career


In some way it is unfair when you look at others that are considered "all time greats", but I guess that is how it works by the majority of views

BmoreBrawler
09-12-2006, 07:06 PM
Most of Tyson's highly rated status coming from the public is due to the WAY he beat his opponents and what he was doing in the ring. It it hard to concieve that a Prime-tyson bum-rush could be stopped by any boxer in history, really. Maybe a slugger like a modern-era Marciano could take the punishment and fight back, but anyone who goes into defensive mode had better forget it.

The Noose
09-12-2006, 10:22 PM
Most of Tyson's highly rated status coming from the public is due to the WAY he beat his opponents and what he was doing in the ring. It it hard to concieve that a Prime-tyson bum-rush could be stopped by any boxer in history, really. Maybe a slugger like a modern-era Marciano could take the punishment and fight back, but anyone who goes into defensive mode had better forget it.

I think Louis would have nailed him.

Madcow
09-13-2006, 02:13 AM
Ali would've made him look foolish. Louis would've KO'd him.

But to add my last two cents: Tyson was a great physical specimen that ruled almost by sheer physical prowess, but there has to be more. It's like a young pitcher with nothing but a 100 Mph fastball; you may be dominant for awhile, but if you don't develop a breaking ball then you'll get tagged eventually.

Roy Jones dominated a weak division on solely his physical ability..was he great?

Prince Naseem Hamed looked dominant for the first couple of years...was he great?

Again, I enjoyed watching Tyson fight, but his straight-ahead style would've been picked apart easily by an expereienced, disciplined fighter. And not the Pinklons', Bonecrushers', Tillis' of the world.

"???...If Mike had no heart, courage, brain, etc. how the hell did he win 37 straight fights, including becoming the youngest Heavyweight Champion in history?"

Sometimes athletes are bigger or stronger or faster than the rest. Physical ability will take you far in a career, but it takes more to be considered one of the greats.

Abe Attell
09-13-2006, 07:41 AM
Louis is actually one of my favorite fighters, if not my favorite, but he held his hands to low.

Ali had a good chance, but Ali did hold his hands low, held them down when moving back to avoid punches, and he tended to drop his left after using it to jab...Tyson was a fighter that put punches in combinations with speed and power, while moving forward very quickly...Tyson would most likely be able to make up room, so it would be very dangerous for Ali.


Saying Tyson was like a pitcher that only had a "100 mph" fastball is a terrible analysis...maybe it is fine for Foreman, but not Tyson...Tyson was able to bob and weave, throw punches in bunches, and throw every punch in the book, including a sharp jab when he used it. Tyson didn't get hit all that much early in his career when he lived in the gym, and he didn't throw one shot bombs like later on.

How many Heavyweights today do you see throwing constant body punches?
Tyson did.




I wonder, what do you think of Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano, and Joe Frazier?



Sometimes athletes are bigger or stronger or faster than the rest. Physical ability will take you far in a career, but it takes more to be considered one of the greats

Wow, I guess they should leave Shaq and Wilt out of the Hall of Fame...only if they would of developed the ability to shoot Free-throws and shoot more than a foot away from the baseket, they would of been considered "Great" :rolleyes:

So should I cross out George Foreman on my "All time Great" list as well?

Should we also dismiss Sprinters (in the Olympics), like Jesse Owens?


What about Ali? Did this guy ever learn how to properly box? or how about body punching, he didn't seem to throw many of those.
You see, Ali also had a great gift, GENETICS...his ability to take a shot to the chin helped him many times...his ability to absorb punches to the body, though through hard work of course, might have more to do with his thick torso, and waist.

Franko
09-13-2006, 10:13 AM
I find it amazing sometimes how much Tyson can be under rated, but sometimes i think people base their opinions on the Tyson we saw after his incarceration, otherwise, their knowledge is poor. When Mike Tyson was at his best he reigned over a division that was obviously far far better than it is today IMO, and at that time Tyson beat some very good fighters who were just unfortunate enough to be around at the same time as him i.e. Tony Tucker, James Smith, Mitch Green, Tyrell Biggs etc. As has been mentioned, it is hard to determine who is/was the hardest puncher in heavyweight history (and from what i read i didn't see Ernie Shavers mentioned), but what i do believe is that Tyson certainly is one of the greatest concussive punchers i have ever seen, and at his best i believe he would be capable of beating any fighter in heavyweight history, or at least he would be more of threat than some people on this thread seem to believe.

Smokin'J
06-08-2008, 12:55 AM
Okay, first and foremost, Mike Tyson is without a doubt a good boxer. He hit hard, had quick hands, and had a solid chin. At one time, he was one of my favorite boxers.

But then pieces of **** on this site come and just make me want to go against him. People say he can hit the hardest, has a very good chin, and is the greatest of all-time.

.

when you talk about chins, mention Jake Lamotta

makaveli_uk
06-08-2008, 07:15 AM
**** off Tyson was the greatest.

T-97
06-08-2008, 10:01 AM
**** off Tyson was the greatest.

Take it you havnt heard of Muhammed Ali then :ugh:

them_apples
06-08-2008, 11:36 AM
How are Tyson's abilities overrated? He unified all 3 belts. He also beat some stiff competition, not as good as Ali's competition or Holyfields competition but it was still very good. I would pick a Prime Tyson over Ali in a heart beat based on styles alone.

I think his power is a bit overrated though, the guy wasn't that big, while no doubt he hit very hard I don't think he hit the hardest.

randy johnson
06-12-2008, 01:25 AM
Okay, first and foremost, Mike Tyson is without a doubt a good boxer. He hit hard, had quick hands, and had a solid chin. At one time, he was one of my favorite boxers.


Amusing Tyson has a solid chin but he was knocked out 5 times?Some fool said Marciano punched harder? (Well know you are white because no black,hispanic,latino or asian would ever say some 180 pound piece of dirt could punch harder than any decent 220 real heavyweight)Then some fool said Tyson was the hardest puncher or all time (Probably a black guy for those who think i pick on a skin color.I just tell it how it is.Most people are racial biased but i am not i am just logical)How many of you fought Tyson?Well Holyfield did and said Foreman punched harder so i will take his word over some fanboy.
If you read my post about Tyson you would of seen me say this before.I hate Tyson....he is a coward and a woman beater but Tyson would of destroyed any fighter before Ali.No glass chin guy like Louis or some 180 pound bum like Marciano would make it past one round with Tyson.Styles make fights some people say and I don't see how Ali would be able to beat Tyson seeing how much trouble Ali had with the slower Joe Frazier.
On the other hand any decent sized 6'4 or so fighter with a good chin and good boxing ability and some punching power would always give Tyson or any other 5.10 or so fighter problems.Tyson kind of used his jab when he was in his prime but that would never work against taller fighters who used theirs as well.Tyson was also knocked out 5 times in his career.I know Tyson fanboys will say it took alot of punches to knock him out but he point is he was stopped.Foreman fought from 38 to 48 and took alot of punishment in some of those fights and was never knocked down.Another thing is Lewis,Holyfield, and Douglas were and are older than Tyson so if you are going to say he was past his prime then so were they.Another thing is punching power doesnt go away because you are in your 30s.Your speed may leave you...your stamina and maybe even your chin in some fighters but not your power.Tyson landed punches on McBride and couldn't hurt him yet on the other than Foreman was able to knock out Moorer at 45 hurt Holyfield when he was 42 and hurt Briggs when he was 48 and all of those fighters were better than McBride.
We also know that fighters like Bruce Seldon and Clifford Etienne probably took dives for Tyson so who can say other Don King controlled heavyweights didnt take a dive for Tyson?Look at his early opponents and you will see he fought bum after bum after bum padding his record but his fans will pretend he fought world class fighters from the get go.Tyson was overrated but so are most boxers including my favorite fighter George Foreman.The only difference is even when Foreman was older people respected Foremans power.Foremans chin was great enough to him to fight to almost 50 and not be knocked out by bums like Kevin McBride.

sleazyfellow
06-12-2008, 02:07 AM
Okay, first and foremost, Mike Tyson is without a doubt a good boxer. He hit hard, had quick hands, and had a solid chin. At one time, he was one of my favorite boxers.


Amusing Tyson has a solid chin but he was knocked out 5 times?Some fool said Marciano punched harder? (Well know you are white because no black,hispanic,latino or asian would ever say some 180 pound piece of dirt could punch harder than any decent 220 real heavyweight)Then some fool said Tyson was the hardest puncher or all time (Probably a black guy for those who think i pick on a skin color.I just tell it how it is.Most people are racial biased but i am not i am just logical)How many of you fought Tyson?Well Holyfield did and said Foreman punched harder so i will take his word over some fanboy.
If you read my post about Tyson you would of seen me say this before.I hate Tyson....he is a coward and a woman beater but Tyson would of destroyed any fighter before Ali.No glass chin guy like Louis or some 180 pound bum like Marciano would make it past one round with Tyson.Styles make fights some people say and I don't see how Ali would be able to beat Tyson seeing how much trouble Ali had with the slower Joe Frazier.
On the other hand any decent sized 6'4 or so fighter with a good chin and good boxing ability and some punching power would always give Tyson or any other 5.10 or so fighter problems.Tyson kind of used his jab when he was in his prime but that would never work against taller fighters who used theirs as well.Tyson was also knocked out 5 times in his career.I know Tyson fanboys will say it took alot of punches to knock him out but he point is he was stopped.Foreman fought from 38 to 48 and took alot of punishment in some of those fights and was never knocked down.Another thing is Lewis,Holyfield, and Douglas were and are older than Tyson so if you are going to say he was past his prime then so were they.Another thing is punching power doesnt go away because you are in your 30s.Your speed may leave you...your stamina and maybe even your chin in some fighters but not your power.Tyson landed punches on McBride and couldn't hurt him yet on the other than Foreman was able to knock out Moorer at 45 hurt Holyfield when he was 42 and hurt Briggs when he was 48 and all of those fighters were better than McBride.
We also know that fighters like Bruce Seldon and Clifford Etienne probably took dives for Tyson so who can say other Don King controlled heavyweights didnt take a dive for Tyson?Look at his early opponents and you will see he fought bum after bum after bum padding his record but his fans will pretend he fought world class fighters from the get go.Tyson was overrated but so are most boxers including my favorite fighter George Foreman.The only difference is even when Foreman was older people respected Foremans power.Foremans chin was great enough to him to fight to almost 50 and not be knocked out by bums like Kevin McBride.

P4P marciano did hit harder than tyson, thats not really a question. Louis did not have a glass chin either, yes he did get knocked down but he usually recovered real nice and could come back and win (unlike tyson). You say some fighters took dives in tysons fights? Thats just ignorant. Alot of greats fight so called bums, its called cleaning out the division. Primes are diffrent for diffrent fighters, being young doesnt mean youre in your prime automatically, look at archie moore, jersey joe, and others.

Boogie Nights
06-12-2008, 02:23 AM
P4P marciano did hit harder than tyson, thats not really a question. Louis did not have a glass chin either, yes he did get knocked down but he usually recovered real nice and could come back and win (unlike tyson). You say some fighters took dives in tysons fights? Thats just ignorant. Alot of greats fight so called bums, its called cleaning out the division. Primes are diffrent for diffrent fighters, being young doesnt mean youre in your prime automatically, look at archie moore, jersey joe, and others.
P4P has nothing to do with it, how do you detrmine punching power by P4P when their styles were similar. however you gonna cut it, tyson hit much harder than marciano did

it bothers me when people say that marciano hit so hard blah blah blah

rocky was a good puncher, but tyson and pretty much any good puncher above 200 pounds hits harder

and also rocky marciano was overated when it comes to placing him in top 5. he deserves to be top 15 there.

Genman1988
06-12-2008, 03:36 AM
There was someone who said 'power never leaves you when your 30, only speed and everything else..'

Thats true to a certain extent. For guys like Foreman that was very true. He relied on pure raw power generated from the weight behind his punch.

Tyson on the other hand is really a tiny heavyweight. His 'knockout power' came from technique and being able to wind up and land fast, with guys not knowing where any of the punches were coming from. So while theyre trying to figure out where the first 2 came from, the 3rd 4th and 5th hit them and knock them out :) If he threw his shots in the manner of big George, he wouldnt have knocked many guys out.

Now, seeing as the explosive speed that he had when he was young has left him...he could no longer connect a 4 punch combo with max velocity, and his single bombs werent enough to knock guys out because they could expect them and survive. Great great example of this is the Danny Williams fight (youtube 'best fight on the internet')

He could have become the floyd mayweather of the heavyweight division with his exemplary defensive skills and counterpunching ability... but chose not to! (I guess he thought people knew him as 'kid dynamite' early rounds knockout animal, if he went against that persona and tried to box a 12 round decision he would get ridiculed and told to retire because he doesnt have it anymore. I personaly think that would have been awesome...)

Boogie Nights
06-12-2008, 03:44 AM
There was someone who said 'power never leaves you when your 30, only speed and everything else..'

Thats true to a certain extent. For guys like Foreman that was very true. He relied on pure raw power generated from the weight behind his punch.

Tyson on the other hand is really a tiny heavyweight. His 'knockout power' came from technique and being able to wind up and land fast, with guys not knowing where any of the punches were coming from. So while theyre trying to figure out where the first 2 came from, the 3rd 4th and 5th hit them and knock them out :) If he threw his shots in the manner of big George, he wouldnt have knocked many guys out.

Now, seeing as the explosive speed that he had when he was young has left him...he could no longer connect a 4 punch combo with max velocity, and his single bombs werent enough to knock guys out because they could expect them and survive. Great great example of this is the Danny Williams fight (youtube 'best fight on the internet')

He could have become the floyd mayweather of the heavyweight division with his exemplary defensive skills and counterpunching ability... but chose not to! (I guess he thought people knew him as 'kid dynamite' early rounds knockout animal, if he went against that persona and tried to box a 12 round decision he would get ridiculed and told to retire because he doesnt have it anymore. I personaly think that would have been awesome...)
did you just compare tyson to mayweather? i've got to say, no offense, but that's the most ****ed up comparisson ive ever heard in my life

them_apples
06-12-2008, 04:10 PM
Marciano was recorded at something like 1150 whereas Tyson was in the 1200-1300 range. I hardly call that twice the punching power of Marciano.

LOL

Marciano never recorded over 1000 lbs of force, If I recall he hit at about 920 give or take a few.

Tyson hasn't been recorded but I have heard rumors of 1350 and 1600, both I haven't seen any legit resources..just those numbers show up a lot.

Marciano did hit hard, but not as hard as Tyson. Marciano could have been a freak of punching power, but so was Tyson. Tyson was bigger and more powerfully built.

You never felt like Marciano was just going to suddenly hit a guy and win, with Tyson you anticipated after every punch.

Mike Tyson's skills were NOT overrated. If anyone thinks this they are dissing Cus d'amato. Cus D'amato dumped a wealth of boxing knowledge on Tyson and turned him into a killing machine. Cus himself said Tyson was his greatest accomplishment and was the reason for him living. Cus is not stupid, he's seen old timers fight and newer fighters.

I can safely say Tyson was NOT the hardest puncher of all time, but he still hit DAMN hard and should definitely make the top 10 punchers list.