View Full Version : Trying to expand my boxing knowledge...


TintaBoricua
05-31-2011, 01:27 AM
So now that my Summer vacation started and with my free time, I finally decided to really stop for a moment and start looking at fighters' records and achievements. I've been looking around boxrec and absolutely enjoying going around and sifting through records and seeing all sorts of things. Don't get me wrong, I've been reading, watching, and writing about boxing ever since I became enamored around 2007. I've even buying career sets and books and whatnot, completely absorbed it.

Anyway, getting to the point, I've always heard that when discussing the top Puerto Rican fighters, it [usually] boils down to: Gómez, Benítez, and Trinidad.

So given my free time, I naturally decided to start looking at the fighters' records, comparing, contrasting, and whatnot.

This is what I was able to come up with.

HUGE NOTE: Feel free to disagree. Again, I've watched a lot of fights and tune in to fights as much as I can, but I'm VERY green compared to some history buffs, but believe me when I tell you that I'm very much interested in learning AS MUCH AS I CAN ABOUT THE SPORT.

Point out anything that looks out of place, and feel free to tell me...which one was the best Puerto Rican fighter? Because based on what I saw, I'm torn between Gómez and Benítez...but leaning slightly towards Benítez.

As always, thank you for the support and I love reading your posts, feel free to agree or disagree!

Wilfredo Gómez (44-3-1, 42KO’s)

1. Most significant achievement: 24 title defenses by KO(Longest KO winning streak in history while defending a belt), 32 straight knockouts (3rd longest in boxing history)

2. Most significant win: Carlos Zarate (52-0, 51KO’s)- TKO5

3. Championship belts: 122 (24 title defenses), 126 (0 title defenses), 130 (0 title defenses)

4. Notable wins: Lupe Pintor (TKO14), Royal Kobayashi (TKO3), Juan Laporte (UD)

5. Notable losses: Salvador Sánchez (TKO8 ), Azumah Nelson (KO11), and Alfredo Layne (TKO9)

*Salvador Sánchez was Gómez’s first opponent at 126 lbs, Gómez was never defeated at 122 lbs.

**Three of Gómez’s losses were by KO/TKO, two of which came against a highly touted Salvador Sánchez and a solid contender in Azumah Nelson (who lost to Sánchez himself by TKO in the 15th).

***Wifredo Gómez was a boxer-puncher with power in both hands, primarily the straight right and left uppercut. He was a good body puncher, could fight on both the inside and outside, but had a tendency to take a lot of punishment as his career progressed and he was very prone to swelling. Unquestionable heart, he always fought to the bitter end.
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Wilfred Benítez (53-8-1, 31KO’s)

Most significant achievement: Youngest champion in boxing history (age 17 in his 25th pro fight)

Most significant win: Roberto Durán (74-2, 57KO’s)- UD12

Championship belts: 140 (two title defenses), 147 (two title defenses), 154 (three title defenses)

Notable wins: Carlos Palomino (UD12), Maurice Hope (TKO12), Carlos Santos (UD10)

Notable losses: Sugar Ray Leonard (TKO12), Thomas Hearns (MD15), Matthew Hilton (KO9)

* Wilfred Benítez’s first two losses came against two all-time great fighters in Leonard and Hearns. His first loss against Leonard was a questionable stoppage.

**Four of Benítez’s losses were via KO/TKO, one of which occurred because of an ankle injury, and another one occurred while Benítez was ahead on all scorecards during the 7th.

***Benítez was a fighter with decent power but preferred boxing. He could fight on the inside and was slippery enough to dodge punches. His greatest strength lied in his defense and frustrating opponents with his slickness. Benítez was the kind of fighter who you could corner and still make you miss.
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Felix Trinidad (42-3-0, 35KO’s)

1. Most significant achievement: 40 straight wins before facing first loss

2. Most significant win: Fernando Vargas (20-0, 18KO’s)- TKO12

3. Championship belts: 147 (15 title defenses), 154 (2 title defenses), unified titles in both

4. Notable wins: Luis Ramón Campas (TKO5), Oscar de la Hoya (MD12), Pernell Whittaker (UD12)

5. Notable losses: Bernard Hopkins (TKO12), Ronald Wright (UD12), Roy Jones, Jr. (UD12)

*Trinidad had one punch knockout power at 147 and was undefeated at this weight class. He managed to carry his power up to 154 and remained undefeated there as well, though his power at 160 is questionable.

**Trinidad was most susceptible to knockdowns in the early rounds of a fight, but had a tendency to fight with greater ferocity when knocked down.

***Trinidad was only knocked out once in 3 fights, in his third weight class, against all-time great Bernard Hopkins. However, he was thoroughly outpointed in all three of his losses and was unable to adapt in these three fights. His third loss was against Jones, Jr. in a fight where Tito came out of retirement after two-and-a-half years, fighting for the first time above 160.

Steak
05-31-2011, 01:47 AM
dont forget about Carlos Ortiz. for whatever reason the guy is the most overlooked of Puerto Rican greats, but he was a hell of an accomplished fighter, and arguably better than the guys you mentioned(and thats saying something).

TintaBoricua
05-31-2011, 02:02 AM
dont forget about Carlos Ortiz. for whatever reason the guy is the most overlooked of Puerto Rican greats, but he was a hell of an accomplished fighter, and arguably better than the guys you mentioned(and thats saying something).

You know what? I had Carlos Ortiz in the back of my mind the whole time I was looking at these three fighters but I completely ignored him. I'm going to to boxrec again and take a look at his record.

IronDanHamza
05-31-2011, 03:23 AM
It's Carlos Ortiz, for me.

I have him as a #4 Lightweight too. Exceptional fighter.

$Natedatpkid$
05-31-2011, 03:46 AM
Trinidad is ****in watch to watch. I don't think I've ever seen a boring Trinidad fight so he's definitely the person I'd start out with. He was a damn good fighter and one of the most exciting.

IronDanHamza
05-31-2011, 03:48 AM
Trinidad is ****in watch to watch. I don't think I've ever seen a boring Trinidad fight so he's definitely the person I'd start out with. He was a damn good fighter and one of the most exciting.

Tito is an exciting fighter but there is simply no argument for him being the greatest Puerto Rican fighter of all time.

Much greater fighters have come from there.

$Natedatpkid$
05-31-2011, 03:52 AM
Tito is an exciting fighter but there is simply no argument for him being the greatest Puerto Rican fighter of all time.

Much greater fighters have come from there.

hahaa man I didn't even read most of that. Just the title and the fighters. I thought he was goina look up all of em and decided, I'm just saying Trinidfad is exciting as ****, definitely would start with him just for fun ha.

The Surgeon
05-31-2011, 04:49 AM
Its Gomez for me, What a Fighter he was! :boxing:

The Surgeon
05-31-2011, 04:53 AM
Tito is an exciting fighter but there is simply no argument for him being the greatest Puerto Rican fighter of all time.

Much greater fighters have come from there.

I dont think he is either Dan but the guy was Great as well as exciting, look at all the Gold Medalists, champions, undefeated fighters ect he crushed. Many on the island feel he is their greatest so he does have some sort of claim.

Just to clarify tho i dont rate him above 3

IronDanHamza
05-31-2011, 06:14 AM
I dont think he is either Dan but the guy was Great as well as exciting, look at all the Gold Medalists, champions, undefeated fighters ect he crushed. Many on the island feel he is their greatest so he does have some sort of claim.

Just to clarify tho i dont rate him above 3

I really can't see how. I can't see an argument for Tito.

Ortiz, Gomez and Benitez are so clearly greater than him.

Tito's a surefire HOF no question but he is an arguble ATG IMO whereas the other 3 are clear ATG's.

Tito has a solid resume and beat some very good fighters but I really cannot see an argument for how he is greater or even as great of those 3 ATG's.

Marcov
05-31-2011, 06:33 AM
Gomez is my #1.

One fight that never gets mentioned and would not make this list is Wilfredo Vazquez. He wasn't unbeatable but he won some big fights and if he was fighting today he would be a star. I also enjoyed the career of Edwin Rosario.

TintaBoricua
05-31-2011, 11:34 AM
There is no disputing that Trinidad was one of the most exciting fighters to watch, but it'd be shame to dismiss Gómez as he was probably just as exciting, if not more in those times.

My father always says that if Gómez had been fighting today (with all the countdown shows, 24/7s, etc.), Gómez would've been an enormous star.

His 32 STRAIGHT knockouts, and over 20 title defenses at 122 (all by knockout) alone gives him some sort of claim to fame. That record has yet to be shattered (the long string of knockouts in the title defenses).

I watched Gómez's career set and he rarely went the distance. His knockout ratio was an impressive 88% (if you take losses and the draw into account).

Benítez on skill aone sets up a lot of "what ifs" because he was just that talented. Youngest champion ever, "The Radar" was given that nickname because he had an uncanny ability to slip punches effortlessly. Sugar Ray Leonard in an interview once said that he had never missed so many punches in a fight than when he fought Wilfred Benítez. I think that was on Ringside: Sugar Ray Leonard (on espn classic).

He lost eight times and was stopped in four, however one of them was because of an ankle he messed up during a fight and another was in the final round against Ray Leonard. In my opinion, the stoppage was a bit premature and the champion should've been given the benefit of the doubt but no shame in losing to an undefeated Sugar Ray Leonard. He also lost a MD to an undefeated Hearns, which is also impressive. His win over Durán came when Durán only had two losses. The fact that he tangled with three of the four great fighters in the 80's merits a lot of acclaim. His skill, coupled with his results against these fighters means that, to me, he edges Gómez and Trinidad.

But by no means is Gómez or Trinidad bad fighters. They are all great. I just think Benítez has an edge.

As for Carlos Ortiz, I took a look at his record. There was a period there in his career where he fought a string of fighters with high wins and very few losses. Interesting to note that he fought Flash Ellorde twice (the Filipino) and knocked him out twice, both in the fourteenth round.

He lost seven times, only once by stoppage at the end of his seventeen-year career where he retired on his stool against Ken Buchanan (yes, THAT Ken Buchanan).

But this is what's interesting, five of his seven losses were either by majority decision or split decision.

He was only clearly outpointed once in the final fight of a trilogy with Duilio Loi (104-2-7).

Carlos Ortiz was a solid fighter, no doubt.

fitefanSHO
05-31-2011, 12:24 PM
I gotta go with either Wilfredo Benitez or Esteban DeJusus

Both guys were good enough to beat ATG Roberto Duran.

That's enough for me. :boxing:

Ziggy Stardust
05-31-2011, 12:38 PM
I've always considered the 1980s as having the Fab-FIVE with Benitez included in that mix. Benitez and Ortiz are clear ATG fighters in my book (though I really to need to make it a point to watch more of Ortiz if I can find the fights). To my mind, Trinidad and Gomez are borderline ATGs at best, near greats at worst. It just seems to me there's a big gap between Benitez and Ortiz on one hand, and Trinidad and Gomez on the other. Gomez is one of my favortite fighters to watch btw.....I don't think I've ever seen him in a stinker.

Poet

jrosales13
05-31-2011, 01:30 PM
El campeon de Cupey Alto. Is my favorite of all time. In my heart he's the GOAT

TintaBoricua
05-31-2011, 02:03 PM
I've always considered the 1980s as having the Fab-FIVE with Benitez included in that mix. Benitez and Ortiz are clear ATG fighters in my book (though I really to need to make it a point to watch more of Ortiz if I can find the fights). To my mind, Trinidad and Gomez are borderline ATGs at best, near greats at worst. It just seems to me there's a big gap between Benitez and Ortiz on one hand, and Trinidad and Gomez on the other. Gomez is one of my favortite fighters to watch btw.....I don't think I've ever seen him in a stinker.

Poet

I honestly can't see Trinidad being on par with those two, at least resumé-wise.

I have to give it to Tito, though. He was as tough and as strong as they come. He could get knocked down, but I don't think I've ever seen Trinidad being wobbled longer than five or ten seconds. His recuperative powers were amazing to behold. The worst thing you could do is knock him down, he'd just get right back up and improve his fighting. The only moment I can recall where Tito was legitimately stunned (the kind of state where he looks like he's seen a ghost) was when Hopkins knocked him down.

He got to his feet almost at the count of 10 but he was going to be knocked out by Hopkins had his dad not stepped in.

Again, Trinidad could be hurt, but he was ferocious and had such a hard chin and so much heart that he could stabilize himself quickly.

Ziggy Stardust
05-31-2011, 02:37 PM
I honestly can't see Trinidad being on par with those two, at least resumé-wise.

I have to give it to Tito, though. He was as tough and as strong as they come. He could get knocked down, but I don't think I've ever seen Trinidad being wobbled longer than five or ten seconds. His recuperative powers were amazing to behold. The worst thing you could do is knock him down, he'd just get right back up and improve his fighting. The only moment I can recall where Tito was legitimately stunned (the kind of state where he looks like he's seen a ghost) was when Hopkins knocked him down.

He got to his feet almost at the count of 10 but he was going to be knocked out by Hopkins had his dad not stepped in.

Again, Trinidad could be hurt, but he was ferocious and had such a hard chin and so much heart that he could stabilize himself quickly.

Tito's two biggest problems were that he was one dimensional offensively (a lot of big punchers are) and he was too damned easy to hit. Those things really cost him against Hopkins and if not for idiotic judging would have cost him against De La Hoya.

Poet

Steak
05-31-2011, 02:43 PM
Trinidad didnt do a large varity of things, but what he did do worked like hell. he murdered people with that left hook, and his right hand was nothing to scoff at either. His style was interesting too because he put on a lot of pressure, and yet had a low work rate.

The number of times he went down and got back up to win amazes me when I think about it. lets see...Cortes, Stephans, Campas, Carr, Lueshing, Reid, Vargas, Mayorga...am I missing anyone? the guy sure was fun to watch.
EDIT: I remeber hearing that he was down 7 times in his career prior to fighting Troy Waters so...Yeah, I must be missing someone.


I think I might go over Ortiz's career in detail in the near future, its a shame that such a great fighter gets overlooked so often. I guess thats bound to happen when two of Puerto Ricos greats were dynamite punchers and Benitez was the youngest ever world champ and a defensive master...

Ziggy Stardust
05-31-2011, 02:46 PM
I think I might go over Ortiz's career in detail in the near future, its a shame that such a great fighter gets overlooked so often.

Please do! I haven't watched nearly enough of Ortiz to get a really good grasp of his abilities.

Poet

IronDanHamza
05-31-2011, 02:56 PM
Please do! I haven't watched nearly enough of Ortiz to get a really good grasp of his abilities.

Poet

Carlos Ortiz is a great great fighter.

I have looked over his career in more detail before. He fought ALOT of Top competition and his LW reign is truley exceptional.

IronDanHamza
05-31-2011, 03:05 PM
For me Ortiz and Benitez are the greatest Rican fighters but I also think Gomez is a great fighter.

Trinidad I have as a boarderline ATG. Below those guys.