View Full Version : Roy Jones vs Cassius Clay


Toney616
05-27-2011, 01:04 PM
If these guys were the same size (any weight class) how do you think there styles would match up?

P4P comparisons:
Physical:
Power: Jones
Handspeed: Equal

Technical:
Footwork: Clay
Jab: Clay
Defense:Equal
Offense: Jones (Jones gets the edge due to counterpunching)

Intangibles:Equal

Blueprint fight: ?

Jones from Toney I
Clay from Liston I

BigStereotype
05-27-2011, 01:08 PM
Similar fighters but Ali had more chutzpah and when the talent is the same, that's really where you have to look. Ali wins it on pure balls.

Toney616
05-27-2011, 01:22 PM
Similar fighters but Ali had more chutzpah and when the talent is the same, that's really where you have to look. Ali wins it on pure balls.
lol:rofl:
His intangibles were rock solid, no doubt about that

I'm trying to think of a blueprint fight, but cant think of one, can you recommend any?

mikeyh1015
05-27-2011, 01:27 PM
LOL, U guys are dumb .... Roy JONES destroys Cassius by 12 rd UD. POP POP Pops on cassius face. Ali's slow ass wont hit ROY. I hate how you guys give old school fighters credit just to show that u guys have boxing knowledge. Roy Would Embaress cassius a youg strong Cassius then they would say : "oh he was a bumb"

Toney616
05-27-2011, 01:28 PM
LOL, U guys are dumb .... Roy JONES destroys Cassius by 12 rd UD.
Nobody destroys Cassius Clay

BigStereotype
05-27-2011, 01:38 PM
lol:rofl:
His intangibles were rock solid, no doubt about that

I'm trying to think of a blueprint fight, but cant think of one, can you recommend any?

I can't really think of one because they were both unique super-athlete fighters. Since neither one of them ever fought a guy on each other's level (and I think that h2h, they're extremely similar), it's hard to point to a fight and say that it looks like that.

mikeyh1015
05-27-2011, 01:42 PM
Nobody destroys Cassius Clay
Okay? Embaresses the hell out of him.

Barn
05-27-2011, 03:03 PM
Clay by late stoppage. Clay is known foor his great heart and ability to dig deep. This is what wins him the fight.

BigStereotype
05-27-2011, 03:07 PM
Okay? Embaresses the hell out of him.

Based on what, exactly? Who embarrassed Ali?

The Surgeon
05-27-2011, 03:26 PM
Clay wins a fencing match

Ziggy Stardust
05-27-2011, 03:26 PM
Roy Jones at the end of a fight versus ANY version of Ali:
http://www.livefight.com/images/pages/1250849979jones-knocked-out.jpg

The Surgeon
05-27-2011, 03:31 PM
Roy Jones at the end of a fight versus ANY version of Ali:
http://www.livefight.com/images/pages/1250849979jones-knocked-out.jpg I wish someone could delete all images of Roy like that! Sadly it seems as there will be more to come anyways..... :crying:

BigStereotype
05-27-2011, 03:34 PM
LOL, U guys are dumb .... Roy JONES destroys Cassius by 12 rd UD. POP POP Pops on cassius face. Ali's slow ass wont hit ROY. I hate how you guys give old school fighters credit just to show that u guys have boxing knowledge. Roy Would Embaress cassius a youg strong Cassius then they would say : "oh he was a bumb"

Do you have even the slightest grasp of the English language? This is really troubling if your ass was able to graduate from school. Your parents really must not have been all that concerned with biology, though, because they clearly overrated genetic diversity and underrated the effects of twinbreeding.

Ziggy Stardust
05-27-2011, 03:39 PM
I wish someone could delete all images of Roy like that! Sadly it seems as there will be more to come anyways..... :crying:

I hate doing it cuz I like Roy, but these nuthuggers force me dish out the hard medicine :(

PS. I wish Roy would face facts and retire before any more pics like that get taken :forgetaboutit9:

Poet

Steak
05-27-2011, 03:42 PM
trying to predict fights where you make fighters the same size is a bit ridiculous. you just cant do it, its WAY to theoretical.

but if youre saying the Clay that won a gold medal in the Olympics at LHW vs prime LHW Roy...thats actually pretty interesting.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O8eqAve3sZw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheHolyCross
05-27-2011, 03:45 PM
trying to predict fights where you make fighters the same size is a bit ridiculous. you just cant do it, its WAY to theoretical.

but if youre saying the Clay that won a gold medal in the Olympics at LHW vs prime LHW Roy...thats actually pretty interesting.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O8eqAve3sZw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

i'd heavily favor roy in that case

New England
05-27-2011, 03:46 PM
If these guys were the same size (any weight class) how do you think there styles would match up?

P4P comparisons:
Physical:
Power: Jones
Handspeed: Equal

Technical:
Footwork: Clay
Jab: Clay
Defense:Equal
Offense: Jones (Jones gets the edge due to counterpunching)

Intangibles:Equal

Blueprint fight: ?

Jones from Toney I
Clay from Liston I


the same size thing doesn't seem fair to me


when roy was a hw or when he was walking in to the ring after weighing in as a LHW he would have been similar in weight to clay early in his pro career when he weighed as low as 188, or during his 60's title run, when he weighed as low as 201 and was always around the general area of 205


upon checking for a second time roy was 193 against ruiz (i thought he was about 200-205)
at any rate, i'd say 60's ali and roy jones would be about the same size in terms of the weigh
and if roy is fighting as a HW he's fighting as a hw (against a hw of similar size in young ali)
size is part of the equation

The Surgeon
05-27-2011, 03:47 PM
I hate doing it cuz I like Roy, but these nuthuggers force me dish out the hard medicine :(

PS. I wish Roy would face facts and retire before any more pics like that get taken :forgetaboutit9:

Poet

Lol its what u do man, Boxing Scene's very own regulator!

Dont look likely im affraid....
Surprising as Jones always struck me as a man who was Very much aware of the dangers of boxing

TheHolyCross
05-27-2011, 03:50 PM
Lol its what u do man, Boxing Scene's very own regulator!

Dont look likely im affraid....
Surprising as Jones always struck me as a man who was Very much aware of the dangers of boxing

i remember roy in his prime always reminding me how he wasn't going to fight for much longer, nevermind way past his best becuase he didn't want to end up like mcclellan

it's ironic

MRBOOMER
05-27-2011, 07:36 PM
The only thing y'all forget was roys body punching skills he'd zap the legs off ali or if he lands one of those dumb left hooks when Ali drops the right hand for is uppercut.

But idk over a decision I take Ali cause it's gotta be a 15 rounder;)

But I think jones would hurt him and get him out to the body.

Kinda like Virgil hil and jones I see that liver or broken rib kinda thing happening.

P.S. Not comparing Virgil to Ali except it would possibly happen...

Ziggy Stardust
05-27-2011, 11:01 PM
Lol its what u do man, Boxing Scene's very own regulator!

Dont look likely im affraid....
Surprising as Jones always struck me as a man who was Very much aware of the dangers of boxing

Yeah, sometimes you just got to take out the trash before it stinks the joint up :cool9:

Poet

The Surgeon
05-28-2011, 03:45 AM
i remember roy in his prime always reminding me how he wasn't going to fight for much longer, nevermind way past his best becuase he didn't want to end up like mcclellan

it's ironic

He didnt even wanna hurt guys sometimes incase THEY ended up like Gerald! Jones has done alot for G man since the Benn fight but he hasnt gone to visit him, he said he wouldnt do that until he retires..... I think he needs to take that trip NOW and remind himself of what can happen in that ring he calls home

Toney616
05-28-2011, 05:57 AM
He didnt even wanna hurt guys sometimes incase THEY ended up like Gerald! Jones has done alot for G man since the Benn fight but he hasnt gone to visit him, he said he wouldnt do that until he retires..... I think he needs to take that trip NOW and remind himself of what can happen in that ring he calls home
He has visited him a number of times. He confided it to Manny "big mouth" Steward, who told Kevin Mitchell, the sports writer for The Guardian newspaper

Toney616
05-28-2011, 06:00 AM
trying to predict fights where you make fighters the same size is a bit ridiculous. you just cant do it, its WAY to theoretical.
True.
I wanted to have the Clay from Liston 1 (210) vs Jones at lhw (come fight night 182), but the size difference is way too much

but if youre saying the Clay that won a gold medal in the Olympics at LHW vs prime LHW Roy...thats actually pretty interesting.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O8eqAve3sZw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I don't think that's fair, matching a pro against an amateur

The Surgeon
05-28-2011, 07:34 AM
He has visited him a number of times. He confided it to Manny "big mouth" Steward, who told Kevin Mitchell, the sports writer for The Guardian newspaper

Really? Thats news to me, and makes it even more surprising......

Toney616
05-28-2011, 07:41 AM
Really? Thats news to me, and makes it even more surprising......
Its covered in War, Baby: The glamour of violence. The same book I used to make my McClellan thread

Devroy Jones
06-01-2011, 01:48 AM
Clay would beat RJJ at rapping.
Clay would beat RJJ in the ring
Clay would beat RJJ in looks
Clay would beat RJJ in ****iness/style/technique/arrogance........

Now, do u realize who i voted for?

Barn
06-01-2011, 03:04 AM
Clay would beat RJJ at rapping.
Clay would beat RJJ in the ring
Clay would beat RJJ in looksClay would beat RJJ in ****iness/style/technique/arrogance........

Now, do u realize who i voted for?

:ugh:..............

Oselav
06-01-2011, 09:56 AM
If Clay can survive a round with Liston blind, he can do the business on Jones.
If Clay/Ali can't be KO'd by Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Shavers or Williams, hard to envisage Jones taking him down.
When the fight gets into the trenches Clay would just want it more. It's why he has the greatest h/w resume ever while Jones' excellent career will have an asterisk next to it for the fights he didn't take and the easy pay days he did take.

right_hand_lead
06-01-2011, 02:21 PM
The only thing y'all forget was roys body punching skills he'd zap the legs off ali or if he lands one of those dumb left hooks when Ali drops the right hand for is uppercut.

But idk over a decision I take Ali cause it's gotta be a 15 rounder;)

But I think jones would hurt him and get him out to the body.

Kinda like Virgil hil and jones I see that liver or broken rib kinda thing happening.

P.S. Not comparing Virgil to Ali except it would possibly happen...

Hurt Ali to the body? The same Ali that took repeated punches from George Foreman? Ali has one of the great chins/bodies of HW history. And this is coming from a Roy & Ali fan.

Barn
06-01-2011, 03:32 PM
Ali took Fraziers body punches all night (him being one of the best body punchers in history.)

GrandpaBernard
06-01-2011, 05:12 PM
Ali is an iron chinned hero. We don't know how good Roy's chin is.

NChristo
06-01-2011, 05:24 PM
:ugh:..............

My exact thought when I read it :lol1:.

right_hand_lead
06-01-2011, 05:40 PM
Ali is an iron chinned hero. We don't know how good Roy's chin is.

Yah we do - See Tarver, Johnson, Green, Lebedev..Granted, not a prime Roy.

TheHolyCross
06-01-2011, 05:42 PM
He has visited him a number of times. He confided it to Manny "big mouth" Steward, who told Kevin Mitchell, the sports writer for The Guardian newspaper

what's with the bryan brannon avatar

MRBOOMER
06-02-2011, 02:34 AM
Hurt Ali to the body? The same Ali that took repeated punches from George Foreman? Ali has one of the great chins/bodies of HW history. And this is coming from a Roy & Ali fan.

Yeah you forget neither one of these men had the speed of jones while Ali could take those big thudding ones question I can he take the suddness of roys it's the ones you don't see that hurt. And Cassius clay he was a skinny lil dude in the beginning of his career so it's possible. I classify them completely different in my head but sadly I didn't type that.

Them being Cassius and Ali.

MRBOOMER
06-02-2011, 02:39 AM
I also think it would be boring and pot shoting all night. But all I know is someone gonna have a messed up body and somebody gonna look like they got slapped with a brick.

Toney616
06-02-2011, 01:45 PM
what's with the bryan brannon avatar
The Jones-Brannon fight was hilarious. Seeing Brannon's face now always makes me laugh

Toney616
06-02-2011, 01:47 PM
Yah we do - See Tarver, Johnson, Green, Lebedev..Granted, not a prime Roy.
Strangely his punch resistance really seemed to fall off post Ruiz. Back in his hey day it was pretty solid. He took bombs from Sosa and didnt flinch

Toney616
06-02-2011, 01:54 PM
I also think it would be boring and pot shoting all night. But all I know is someone gonna have a messed up body and somebody gonna look like they got slapped with a brick.

Ali never went to the body. He was basically a head hunter and his bread and butter was the left jab and right cross. He pulled back from punches though, like Jones does sometimes. I think Jones would have a lot of success with his leaping left hooks. I can't see how you can avoid them by pulling back.
Jones's counterpunching would give Ali fits as well. He fients at you, waits for you to react, than lands a shot at the opening you presented by reacting to his feint. In other words he is countering you, without you having to throw a punch.

On the flip side Ali's jab was top rate and he could use it to try and keep Jones on the outside, so he could land his right crosses.Ali has a rock solid chin and solid intangibles so no version of Ali ever gets stop by anybody

MRBOOMER
06-02-2011, 05:16 PM
Yeah I don't see the left hook landing upstairs to well the straight right actually because ali's ability to see left hooks was great but he turned into right hands the only hook I see landing is if he drops his right all the way for the uppercut like how Frazier knocked him down.

Ziggy Stardust
06-02-2011, 05:32 PM
Ali never went to the body. He was basically a head hunter and his bread and butter was the left jab and right cross. He pulled back from punches though, like Jones does sometimes. I think Jones would have a lot of success with his leaping left hooks. I can't see how you can avoid them by pulling back.
Jones's counterpunching would give Ali fits as well. He fients at you, waits for you to react, than lands a shot at the opening you presented by reacting to his feint. In other words he is countering you, without you having to throw a punch.

On the flip side Ali's jab was top rate and he could use it to try and keep Jones on the outside, so he could land his right crosses.Ali has a rock solid chin and solid intangibles so no version of Ali ever gets stop by anybody

The thing is, though, is that Roy's usual advantage over his opponents in hand and foot speed disappear in this matchup. In many ways the two of them are mirror images of each other.....with one big difference: Ali has proven durability and punch resistance in that weight class while Jones does not. The blueprint for this fight? Ali-Patterson: In Patterson Ali faced an opponent who could match him in hand and foot speed and Ali had his way with him.

Poet

bojangles1987
06-02-2011, 05:43 PM
Similar fighters but Ali had more chutzpah and when the talent is the same, that's really where you have to look. Ali wins it on pure balls.

I couldn't have put it better myself. They couldn't be more similar looking at tangible attributes, it's all about Ali having one of the most indomitable winning spirits in sports history.

MRBOOMER
06-02-2011, 06:05 PM
The thing is, though, is that Roy's usual advantage over his opponents in hand and foot speed disappear in this matchup. In many ways the two of them are mirror images of each other.....with one big difference: Ali has proven durability and punch resistance in that weight class while Jones does not. The blueprint for this fight? Ali-Patterson: In Patterson Ali faced an opponent who could match him in hand and foot speed and Ali had his way with him.

Poet

But not his akwardness which woulda caused problems for Ali I believe

Ziggy Stardust
06-02-2011, 06:11 PM
But not his akwardness which woulda caused problems for Ali I believe

Ali was equally as awkward as Jones.

Poet

Barn
06-02-2011, 06:22 PM
Ali was equally as awkward as Jones.

Poet
If not more.

MRBOOMER
06-02-2011, 07:13 PM
Ali was equally as awkward as Jones.

Poet

So then don't you think that would kinda x each other out?

Ziggy Stardust
06-02-2011, 07:15 PM
So then don't you think that would kinda x each other out?

I believe that was the point I was making.

Poet

MRBOOMER
06-02-2011, 11:20 PM
I believe that was the point I was making.

Poet

Well I misunderstood

Toney616
06-04-2011, 07:53 AM
The thing is, though, is that Roy's usual advantage over his opponents in hand and foot speed disappear in this matchup.
Has Jones ever faced an opponent with better footspeed than himself?

In many ways the two of them are mirror images of each other.....with one big difference: Ali has proven durability and punch resistance in that weight class while Jones does not.
If noticed that as well. I think Jones Sr used Ali's style as the blueprint for training his fighters.

The blueprint for this fight? Ali-Patterson: In Patterson Ali faced an opponent who could match him in hand and foot speed and Ali had his way with him.

Poet
I was thinking maybe the Ali-Doug Jones fight could be used as a blueprint

House of Stone
06-04-2011, 08:26 AM
well this match up is a bit too wierd - the idea of shrinking ali to jones's size or increasing jones to ali's size just doesn't work imo cause you are effectively changing the fighters if you made jones ali's size then its not really jones and if you make ali jones's size then its not really ali ... the only way you get them at the same/similiar size is either prime LH jones against an amateur Cassius Clay from the olympics which isn't a fair fight (one of the best LH of modern times v an amateur) ... or take the jones from the ruiz fight against say the prime clay of the liston fights which again is a completely one sided joke (a guy from a once off heavyweight excursion against a bum champ versus possibly the greatest heavyweight of all time)