View Full Version : I love to stir this pot up so tell me.......


studentofthegam
05-26-2011, 12:24 PM
Is there an ATG in history that Floyd Mayweather Jr. can possibly beat or may even be a favorite against. Ive heard people give lesser fighters a decent shot but why not Money? Im talking the best atleast top 20 to 30. I would like some honest answers. I think the brother can squabble with anyone in history so my opinion is sort of worthless to this conversation but you guys can give me something to talk about.

IronDanHamza
05-26-2011, 12:30 PM
I personally think he would be favourite to beat almost anyone at 130Lbs.

studentofthegam
05-26-2011, 12:36 PM
I personally think he would be favourite to beat almost anyone at 130Lbs.I must say thats not what I epected as the first comment. At 130 I dont see anyone beating him. What about 140? Not too many fights but he looked good.

NChristo
05-26-2011, 12:44 PM
He stands high in h2h standards imo, though most people are putting him against boxers that are at Welter though which is not his best weight.
He is still very capable at Welter but not against the best of all time, I'd still give him the advantage against a lot though.

Depends on your ATG list, I give him a good chance / make him a favourite against everyone at SFW e.g Alexis Arguello, who I know tends to rank high on lists.

A fight with Azumah Nelson would be amazing, first time I've thought about it actually.

Your opinion isn't 'worthless', Floyd is a intelligent boxer and would imo give most some kind of trouble, especially with his defense and adaptability that he has shown.

Of course though all a fantasy fight is is just that, fantasy, tend not too spend too much time on them unless one really interests me.

IronDanHamza
05-26-2011, 01:11 PM
I must say thats not what I epected as the first comment. At 130 I dont see anyone beating him. What about 140? Not too many fights but he looked good.

At 140 physically he looked exceptional but we really haven't seen enough of him there to judge IMO. He holds his own with most but I would probably favour alot against him but I haven't given it much thought. Guys like Tszyu and Pryor I would lean on Mayweather in.

At 135, it's just so deep of a division I just see alot of guys beating him at that weight. Even though Floyd is a good Lightweight physcially again. Guys like Duran, Whitaker, Ortiz, Williams etc I would favour over Mayweather.

Then again I would favour Floyd over ATG Lightweights like Buchanan, Brown etc I would favour Mayweather over so it works both ways I guess. But the guys I consider THE best Lightweights of all time and alot of ATG I would naturally favour over Mayweather but not all of them.

I 147 I favour alot over him, especially if it's their natural weight class. It isn't really a fair comparison to me. I believe he beats the less natural guys there like Prime Oscar and Prime Mosley and guys like that but natural Welterweight's like Griffith, Hearns, Leonard etc I give him little chance at all against personally, it's just not really a fair matchup in my view.

The same obviously goes for Jr Middleweight.

New England
05-26-2011, 03:57 PM
I personally think he would be favourite to beat almost anyone at 130Lbs.



not armstrong, pep, saddler, arguello, and sanchez in my book. not by a long shot
after all, 130 lb floyd mayweather was young and relatively green.


however, floyd would have a tremendous advantage in size over most other 130 lbers in history. he's got traditional WW dimensions in terms of his height and reach and shoulders
with a same day weigh in and a 5-10 fight per year schedule floyd would have never fought as any thing less than lightweight, even early in his career.



all that being said, floyd was a very special fighter at 130 and 135, and would have likely had similar success had he gone with a lengthy tenure at 140

studentofthegam
05-26-2011, 08:30 PM
He stands high in h2h standards imo, though most people are putting him against boxers that are at Welter though which is not his best weight.
He is still very capable at Welter but not against the best of all time, I'd still give him the advantage against a lot though.

Depends on your ATG list, I give him a good chance / make him a favourite against everyone at SFW e.g Alexis Arguello, who I know tends to rank high on lists.

A fight with Azumah Nelson would be amazing, first time I've thought about it actually.

Your opinion isn't 'worthless', Floyd is a intelligent boxer and would imo give most some kind of trouble, especially with his defense and adaptability that he has shown.

Of course though all a fantasy fight is is just that, fantasy, tend not too spend too much time on them unless one really interests me.I only say worthless because I think he beats a lot of them even at WW. I feel like a lot of the guys that peeps pick to destroy him like Hearns, Duran and Hagler couldnt make the proper adjustments to win. Duran probably stands the best chance because he could change it up some. Hagler I think would get picked off for 12 rounds. I see him attacking Hearns and not letting the length take over and Tommy doesnt exactly have an iron chin. When guys talk Chavez and prime Mosley's beating him I draw the line because its a tier down in ATG's. I think those are spankings.

studentofthegam
05-26-2011, 08:32 PM
not armstrong, pep, saddler, arguello, and sanchez in my book. not by a long shot
after all, 130 lb floyd mayweather was young and relatively green.


however, floyd would have a tremendous advantage in size over most other 130 lbers in history. he's got traditional WW dimensions in terms of his height and reach and shoulders
with a same day weigh in and a 5-10 fight per year schedule floyd would have never fought as any thing less than lightweight, even early in his career.



all that being said, floyd was a very special fighter at 130 and 135, and would have likely had similar success had he gone with a lengthy tenure at 140

I dont know bruh. I think he destroys Arguello and bullies Pep.

Ziggy Stardust
05-26-2011, 08:42 PM
I dont know bruh. I think he destroys Arguello and bullies Pep.

^^^^^ :rofl9::rofl9::rofl9::rofl9:

IronDanHamza
05-26-2011, 08:46 PM
^^^^^ :rofl9::rofl9::rofl9::rofl9:

I know you don't do new weight classes but for the sake of argument how do you see Mayweather Jr Vs Arguello going at 130 Lbs, Poet?

lazy
05-26-2011, 08:53 PM
Mayweather fans refuse to believe this and I am not trying to offend you, but the truth is Mayweather is and has been the most protected fighter and a win over the limited Corrales(RIP) does not mean greatness. Imagine if it had been a prime Julio C. Chavez in there instead of the overrated Jose Luis Castillo.

New England
05-26-2011, 08:57 PM
I dont know bruh. I think he destroys Arguello and bullies Pep.


since when has floyd been a destroyer or a bully?

Steak
05-26-2011, 08:58 PM
I dont know if you would consider Arguello as top 30, but if you do, I think Mayweather would beat him.

Arguello was a fantastic fighter, offensively one of the best ever, but Mayweather was flat out a terrible style matchup for him, based on Arguello's fights aganst Violmar Fernandez and Ernesto Marcel, who used a lot of defense and potshotting to annoy Arguello. Mayweather has those tools.

Arguello was also rangy and thin, and Mayweather in the past has done very well against those types of opponents. ie Corrales and Genaro Hernandez. no, Arguello is not a Corrales or Hernandez, but I have no doubt that Mayweather would be able to control distance well and decision Arguello in a 117-111 ish type of fight.

Ziggy Stardust
05-26-2011, 09:11 PM
I know you don't do new weight classes but for the sake of argument how do you see Mayweather Jr Vs Arguello going at 130 Lbs, Poet?

Mayweather was much more active at the lower weights than his is at Welter. Even so, I think he starts to run after the Arguello right clocks him. Think Rosario Vs Camacho. Put in judges from the 1970s who actually penalize you for those kind of tactics and I think Floyd runs and potshots his way to a decision loss. Arguello may find Floyd difficult to land on but given that I think Floyd's workrate is going to go in the tank after he gets hit it's not going to matter.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
05-26-2011, 09:18 PM
I dont know if you would consider Arguello as top 30, but if you do, I think Mayweather would beat him.

Arguello was a fantastic fighter, offensively one of the best ever, but Mayweather was flat out a terrible style matchup for him, based on Arguello's fights aganst Violmar Fernandez and Ernesto Marcel, who used a lot of defense and potshotting to annoy Arguello. Mayweather has those tools.

Arguello was also rangy and thin, and Mayweather in the past has done very well against those types of opponents. ie Corrales and Genaro Hernandez. no, Arguello is not a Corrales or Hernandez, but I have no doubt that Mayweather would be able to control distance well and decision Arguello in a 117-111 ish type of fight.

Annoying and beating are two different things though. I can easily see Arguello being annoyed as hell by Willie Pep but I still see that as a pretty even fight.

I think, though, what it boils down to is we have differing views on just how much style matchups determine the outcome of a fight. As I see it, the better fighter usually wins regardless of the style matchup. He may have difficulties because of it (ie Holmes vs Norton), but he still usually ends up winning (as Holmes did). To my mind, style matchups that are determinitive are rare (short-armed swarmers against Foreman and Liston being the one that comes to mind).

Poet

IronDanHamza
05-26-2011, 09:33 PM
Mayweather was much more active at the lower weights than his is at Welter. Even so, I think he starts to run after the Arguello right clocks him. Think Rosario Vs Camacho. Put in judges from the 1970s who actually penalize you for those kind of tactics and I think Floyd runs and potshots his way to a decision loss. Arguello may find Floyd difficult to land on but given that I think Floyd's workrate is going to go in the tank after he gets hit it's not going to matter.

Poet

Like you (or so I presume) Arguello is one of my favourite fighters, infact, he is my favourite fighter. And I think he is trouble for ANYONE in that weight class and his right hand could decapitate anyone in that weight class.

But I think Mayweather will be a tough fight for Arguello. Mayweather has never tasted Arguello-like power and if he were to, who knows how he would react. But, he has handled power at that weight before so I guess that one we won't ever know.

Like you, I agree the better fighter usually wins. But, I personally won't dismiss the fact that some people outright struggle with a certain style. And I think Arguello would have alot of problems with Floyd Mayweather Jr at that weight.

For me it's 50/50. But that's just me.

I think Arguello and Floyd are a handful for a lot of fighters at that weight class (only if you count 130 as a weight class)

Rockin'
05-26-2011, 09:40 PM
Somebody said that Mayweather bullies Hearns in a fight, sh*t! Mayweather gets buried by Hearns at 147 and after the fight he is no longer able to pronuonce the words p.e.d drug testing........Rockin':boxing:

Steak
05-27-2011, 12:05 AM
Annoying and beating are two different things though. I can easily see Arguello being annoyed as hell by Willie Pep but I still see that as a pretty even fight.

I think, though, what it boils down to is we have differing views on just how much style matchups determine the outcome of a fight. As I see it, the better fighter usually wins regardless of the style matchup. He may have difficulties because of it (ie Holmes vs Norton), but he still usually ends up winning (as Holmes did). To my mind, style matchups that are determinitive are rare (short-armed swarmers against Foreman and Liston being the one that comes to mind).

Poet
perhaps, and its all speculation in the end.

but I saw Fernandez and Marcel not only annoy Arguello, but beat Arguello fighting defensively and potshotting. Mayweather is definitely better than both those fighters, not only in the above mentioned catagories but overall. So personally I would have Mayweather beating Arguello.

I put a lot of emphasis on style matchups. I know you dont, but I guess thats just different philosophies regarding boxing.

JAB5239
05-27-2011, 06:09 AM
I only say worthless because I think he beats a lot of them even at WW. I feel like a lot of the guys that peeps pick to destroy him like Hearns, Duran and Hagler couldnt make the proper adjustments to win. Duran probably stands the best chance because he could change it up some. Hagler I think would get picked off for 12 rounds. I see him attacking Hearns and not letting the length take over and Tommy doesnt exactly have an iron chin. When guys talk Chavez and prime Mosley's beating him I draw the line because its a tier down in ATG's. I think those are spankings.

Hearns couldn't make the proper adjustments? The guy was NEVER outboxed and had a combination of speed, size and power that Floyd has never had to deal with. He's the worst possible match up for Floyd.

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 01:01 PM
Mayweather fans refuse to believe this and I am not trying to offend you, but the truth is Mayweather is and has been the most protected fighter and a win over the limited Corrales(RIP) does not mean greatness. Imagine if it had been a prime Julio C. Chavez in there instead of the overrated Jose Luis Castillo.Im not offended. It was the whole point of the thread because I know the popular opinion. So who could he have a decent dance with. And who could or should he have fought in place of either of the two (Corrales,Castillo)?

since when has floyd been a destroyer or a bully?He was pretty vicious at the lower weights. People always forget that. Sure he had rough time with Castillo but name the other close fight he had? I cant remember one. Definitely not below 140.

Hearns couldn't make the proper adjustments? The guy was NEVER outboxed and had a combination of speed, size and power that Floyd has never had to deal with. He's the worst possible match up for Floyd.I think Floyd would force him to crank the action up by working in and out or potshotting as its called. Hearns seemed really vulnerable and tense when he got a little frustrated. Not to mention that beard of his was not the worst but questionable. If Floyd gets you frustrated then its a done deal.

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 01:06 PM
^^^^^ :rofl9::rofl9::rofl9::rofl9:Real adult man. One of a kind you are.

SplitSecond
05-27-2011, 01:19 PM
Mayweather was much more active at the lower weights than his is at Welter. Even so, I think he starts to run after the Arguello right clocks him. Think Rosario Vs Camacho. Put in judges from the 1970s who actually penalize you for those kind of tactics and I think Floyd runs and potshots his way to a decision loss. Arguello may find Floyd difficult to land on but given that I think Floyd's workrate is going to go in the tank after he gets hit it's not going to matter.

Poet

when has he ever started to run after getting clocked?
if he's gonna run it's gonna be part of his gameplan
and start from round one

from what i've seen, catching him usually gets him to move foward

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 01:23 PM
when has he ever started to run after getting clocked?
if he's gonna run it's gonna be part of his gameplan
and start from round one

from what i've seen, catching him usually gets him to move fowardIts a myth. Sometimes people say he's never been hit? They can never show me all these fights where he turned tail and ran. It just sounds right because he doesnt get hit much which I thought was half of the objective. But its different strokes for different folks.

Steak
05-27-2011, 01:25 PM
I cant imagine Mayweather beating Hearns in any scenario. Hearns was nearly impossible to outbox, as shown in his performances againt Benitez, Hill and Leonard, and was a death trap against most stalking fighters, as shown in his fights against Cuevas and Duran.

to walk down Hearns you had to be exceptionally durable and one of the toughest ****ers around. Barkley and Hagler were able to do it, but people forget Barkley was getting murdered to the body and was badly cut within 2 rounds, and that Hearns broke his right hand on Haglers head, rocking and cutting him.

and Barkley was huge for a middleweight. the guy went on to have success at LHW and even close his career at HW with some stoppage wins, despite being pretty much shot and out of shape.

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 01:31 PM
I cant imagine Mayweather beating Hearns in any scenario. Hearns was nearly impossible to outbox, as shown in his performances againt Benitez, Hill and Leonard, and was a death trap against most stalking fighters, as shown in his fights against Cuevas and Duran.

to walk down Hearns you had to be exceptionally durable and one of the toughest ****ers around. Barkley and Hagler were able to do it, but people forget Barkley was getting murdered to the body and was badly cut within 2 rounds, and that Hearns broke his right hand on Haglers head, rocking and cutting him.

and Barkley was huge for a middleweight. the guy went on to have success at LHW and even close his career at HW with some stoppage wins, despite being pretty much shot and out of shape.So Mayweather isnt tough enough? I guess thats where we differ. He may be spoiled but when he gets hit he wants it back. I could definitely see Hearns rocking him a little early but Floyd in deep water with healthy hands is not what most fighters care to deal with.

Steak
05-27-2011, 01:34 PM
So Mayweather isnt tough enough? I guess thats where we differ. He may be spoiled but when he gets hit he wants it back. I could definitely see Hearns rocking him a little early but Floyd in deep water with healthy hands is not what most fighters care to deal with.
Mayweather is tough, sure. but I dont think hes nearly as tough or durable as prime Iran Barkley or Marvin Hagler...and you certainly dont think Mayweather hits as hard as either of them, do you?

and even then, those two went through hell to beat Hearns. Not much longer and Barkley would have been gone, and that was the only time I can think of that Hagler was ever actually hurt by a punch.

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 01:42 PM
Mayweather is tough, sure. but I dont think hes nearly as tough or durable as prime Iran Barkley or Marvin Hagler...and you certainly dont think Mayweather hits as hard as either of them, do you?

and even then, those two went through hell to beat Hearns. Not much longer and Barkley would have been gone, and that was the only time I can think of that Hagler was ever actually hurt by a punch.No I dont think Floyd hit as hard as those guys. I just think his timing and accuracy would make up for that against Hearns. When I talk toughness I see this in FMJ. For all the tactics that have been used against him I cant remember one time when Floyd even had a short conversation with a ref about what a guy did to him. He just adjusts accordingly. Its a mental toughness that gets him over the hump against most guys.

Steak
05-27-2011, 01:51 PM
No I dont think Floyd hit as hard as those guys. I just think his timing and accuracy would make up for that against Hearns. When I talk toughness I see this in FMJ. For all the tactics that have been used against him I cant remember one time when Floyd even had a short conversation with a ref about what a guy did to him. He just adjusts accordingly. Its a mental toughness that gets him over the hump against most guys.Barkley is one of the toughest fighters Ive ever seen, period. I think mentally Floyd is very strong, but definitely not on the level of Barkley.

and its not just about toughness, its about durability as well. guys like Hagler and Barkley could soak up damage like nothing and keep going. And take into account they were taking this damage from natural Middleweights, a weight that Mayweather has never fought at. And Hearns still ****ed them up badly before getting caught by a few hard punches(with the kind of power that Mayweather flat out doesnt have).

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 01:54 PM
Barkley is one of the toughest fighters Ive ever seen, period. I think mentally Floyd is very strong, but definitely not on the level of Barkley.

and its not just about toughness, its about durability as well. guys like Hagler and Barkley could soak up damage like nothing and keep going. And take into account they were taking this damage from natural Middleweights, a weight that Mayweather has never fought at. And Hearns still ****ed them up badly before getting caught by a few hard punches(with the kind of power that Mayweather flat out doesnt have).Well you can have that because Floyd dont take punishment. Thats not the way to go. Now keep it real Barkley just had a hard ass head. It wasnt mental toughness. It was strictly physical.

Steak
05-27-2011, 02:02 PM
Well you can have that because Floyd dont take punishment. Thats not the way to go. Now keep it real Barkley just had a hard ass head. It wasnt mental toughness. It was strictly physical.
Barkley ate devastating body shots from Hearns and kept coming forward to win, fought through nasty cuts to win, and would continue fighting through hailstorms of punishment even when he knew he was outgunned as shown in his fights with Toney and Nunn. I mean, this is a guy who was laughing in the 3rd or 4th round of his fight with Toney, and thats arguably Toney's most brutal display of his career. The guy was constantly in firefights, and did it for fun.

I have to admit, I never thought Id hear Barkley's toughness questioned. When have you ever had reason to doubt the guys tenacity?

and how exactly do you think that Floyd would not take punishment if hes trying to walk down Hearns...? His high guard style only goes so far, and if dont try to dig in with it(Floyd is always more methodical about it) then youre going to be outboxed and outfought like Benitez and Hill.

joseph5620
05-27-2011, 02:07 PM
I cant imagine Mayweather beating Hearns in any scenario. Hearns was nearly impossible to outbox, as shown in his performances againt Benitez, Hill and Leonard, and was a death trap against most stalking fighters, as shown in his fights against Cuevas and Duran.

to walk down Hearns you had to be exceptionally durable and one of the toughest ****ers around. Barkley and Hagler were able to do it, but people forget Barkley was getting murdered to the body and was badly cut within 2 rounds, and that Hearns broke his right hand on Haglers head, rocking and cutting him.

and Barkley was huge for a middleweight. the guy went on to have success at LHW and even close his career at HW with some stoppage wins, despite being pretty much shot and out of shape.

I don't see Mayweather beating Hearns either. But I do see him beating Arguello for the same reasons you pointed out. At 130 Mayweather would have been a very tough match up for any 130 pound fighter in history and it would be hard to pick against him there. 147 is another story. That's not his best weight and I don't see him beating Hearns there.

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 02:20 PM
Barkley ate devastating body shots from Hearns and kept coming forward to win, fought through nasty cuts to win, and would continue fighting through hailstorms of punishment even when he knew he was outgunned as shown in his fights with Toney and Nunn. I mean, this is a guy who was laughing in the 3rd or 4th round of his fight with Toney, and thats arguably Toney's most brutal display of his career. The guy was constantly in firefights, and did it for fun.

I have to admit, I never thought Id hear Barkley's toughness questioned. When have you ever had reason to doubt the guys tenacity?

and how exactly do you think that Floyd would not take punishment if hes trying to walk down Hearns...? His high guard style only goes so far, and if dont try to dig in with it(Floyd is always more methodical about it) then youre going to be outboxed and outfought like Benitez and Hill.Barkley is tough. No question. I just think it was physical toughness not mental fortitude. He was just the guy in the neighborhood no one really wanted to fight because he wouldnt quit. I say that as a compliment.

Steak
05-27-2011, 02:26 PM
Barkley is tough. No question. I just think it was physical toughness not mental fortitude. He was just the guy in the neighborhood no one really wanted to fight because he wouldnt quit. I say that as a compliment.
wouldnt quit=mental toughness to me...but...Im pretty much done with this topic.
I don't see Mayweather beating Hearns either. But I do see him beating Arguello for the same reasons you pointed out. At 130 Mayweather would have been a very tough match up for any 130 pound fighter in history and it would be hard to pick against him there. 147 is another story. That's not his best weight and I don't see him beating Hearns there.
There are very few fighters who could have beaten Mayweather at 130lbs. Off the top of my head I only think I would pick Julio Cesar Chavez over him, but even then thats not exactly a guarentee.

Ziggy Stardust
05-27-2011, 04:14 PM
when has he ever started to run after getting clocked?
if he's gonna run it's gonna be part of his gameplan
and start from round one

from what i've seen, catching him usually gets him to move foward

He started to run like a little b1tch after the first De La Hoya JAB landed ffs :floyd9:

You guys need to save ***** crap for NSB.....do your verbal fellating of Floyd over there.

Poet

SplitSecond
05-27-2011, 05:01 PM
He started to run like a little b1tch after the first De La Hoya JAB landed ffs :floyd9:

You guys need to save ***** crap for NSB.....do your verbal fellating of Floyd over there.

Poet

when was this? all i see is functional movement

and regarding the "*****" insult, first time i've been called that, despite usually being branded as a floyd hater

look, im not even saying i think floyd would win
so there's no need to get your panties in a bunch

New England
05-27-2011, 05:16 PM
i like floyd as much as the next man but tommy hearns would retire him
he's probably the last WW in history that mayweather could beat, or even fight and remain healthy.

tommy hearns would fold floyd like a napkin. they are a different class of WW.
he'd keep him at the end of his punches and eventually drop the right hand. lights out.
if he somehow remains upright he's not making it out of the round.



like jab said, tommy hearns is the last guy on earth you want to try and outbox given his dimensions and power

he can knock your jab down and put his right hand over it (and he's got the best right hand ever thrown at WW and nobody comes close)
he's got a great jab of his own
and he remained tall


given floyd's nature, i seriously doubt he would come back

tommy via kayo after maybe six rounds. real honest to goodness kayo. he'd pick up where shane left off and violently snap floyds head around till he went out.
and floyd would announce his retirement after the fight

studentofthegam
05-27-2011, 08:38 PM
He started to run like a little b1tch after the first De La Hoya JAB landed ffs :floyd9:

You guys need to save ***** crap for NSB.....do your verbal fellating of Floyd over there.

PoetHe's been winning for 14 years so I think it qualifies as a part of history buddy. Ive seen you do a little fellating yourself.

Ziggy Stardust
05-27-2011, 11:58 PM
He's been winning for 14 years so I think it qualifies as a part of history buddy.

Irrelivent. It's your abject nuthugging that belongs in NSB and out of here. NSB is for ignorant fan-bois like yourself.


Ive seen you do a little fellating yourself.

Oh please list the fighters you've seen me nuthug :hahahaha9: Was it the Ali who I personally dislike but point out as the Heavyweight GOAT? Or prehaps it's Frank Bruno who I've made no secret about the fact that I like but also who I point out was no where near a championship caliber fighter? Or maybe it was when I say Robinson was the p4p GOAT.....something the VAST majority of boxing historians (real ones, you know the type that publish books and sh1t aka peeps that know a sh1t load more about boxing than YOU do) agree with me on. Maybe it was those fighters? :rofl9:

Poet

studentofthegam
05-28-2011, 12:26 AM
Irrelivent. It's your abject nuthugging that belongs in NSB and out of here. NSB is for ignorant fan-bois like yourself.




Oh please list the fighters you've seen me nuthug :hahahaha9: Was it the Ali who I personally dislike but point out as the Heavyweight GOAT? Or prehaps it's Frank Bruno who I've made no secret about the fact that I like but also who I point out was no where near a championship caliber fighter? Or maybe it was when I say Robinson was the p4p GOAT.....something the VAST majority of boxing historians (real ones, you know the type that publish books and sh1t aka peeps that know a sh1t load more about boxing than YOU do) agree with me on. Maybe it was those fighters? :rofl9:

PoetYou really think you're some kind of genius history judge and jury? You admit this. As long as everybody agrees to jock the same guy its cool right. And anybody who defends Floyd against any great fighter before the year 1998 is not worthy of an opinion. If I said Hagler gives SRR a run for his money some would disagree but we could still have a sensible conversation. But If I were to say Floyd could win 4 rounds against Hearns its the ultimate sin? Can you just voluntarily ignore me from now on? And I'll do the same "Oh Great One"?LoL. Damn 12 year old kid.

F l i c k e r
05-28-2011, 12:33 AM
Hearns couldn't make the proper adjustments? The guy was NEVER outboxed and had a combination of speed, size and power that Floyd has never had to deal with. He's the worst possible match up for Floyd.


I agree with this somewhat. Hearns was a big dude so that is his number 1 advantage. Then his jab was fierce and his right straight was deadly. Basically I think he would follow ODLH's game plan but try to ice Floyd with the right hand more often.

The thing is, Floyd may be able to figure out such a linear game plan with relative ease(2-3rnds max). He figured ODLH's game plan but was never threatened so he let ODLH continue with jabbing at his shoulder.

With Hearns I think Floyd will watch for the right straight more so than lean agaisnt the ropes like he did with ODLH. Then probably slip into the angles and one-shot him like he did with Corrales(taller guy similarity).

So, end result imo is Hearns by shocking kayo if it's a 15er or Floyd by decision if it's a 12er.

F l i c k e r
05-28-2011, 12:39 AM
i like floyd as much as the next man but tommy hearns would retire him
he's probably the last WW in history that mayweather could beat, or even fight and remain healthy.

tommy hearns would fold floyd like a napkin. they are a different class of WW.
he'd keep him at the end of his punches and eventually drop the right hand. lights out.
if he somehow remains upright he's not making it out of the round.



like jab said, tommy hearns is the last guy on earth you want to try and outbox given his dimensions and power

he can knock your jab down and put his right hand over it (and he's got the best right hand ever thrown at WW and nobody comes close)
he's got a great jab of his own
and he remained tall


given floyd's nature, i seriously doubt he would come back

tommy via kayo after maybe six rounds. real honest to goodness kayo. he'd pick up where shane left off and violently snap floyds head around till he went out.
and floyd would announce his retirement after the fight


lol, I can totally see that happening except the last part. The big difference there is, Mosley threw a MMA haymaker and got lucky. Hearns throws technical efficient punches, not MMA haymaker stuff.

Floyd would have to either walk right into the right hand like a dumb ass or somehow not have the reflexes that is more than likely, only second to Pernell whitaker.

Ziggy Stardust
05-28-2011, 12:44 AM
You really think you're some kind of genius history judge and jury? You admit this. As long as everybody agrees to jock the same guy its cool right. And anybody who defends Floyd against any great fighter before the year 1998 is not worthy of an opinion. If I said Hagler gives SRR a run for his money some would disagree but we could still have a sensible conversation. But If I were to say Floyd could win 4 rounds against Hearns its the ultimate sin? Can you just voluntarily ignore me from now on? And I'll do the same "Oh Great One"?LoL. Damn 12 year old kid.

I got better idea: How bouts you slither out this section and go back to NSB before another reg makes you look like a fool.....something that happens every time you try and "debate" one. Remember I tried to have an "adult" conversation with you? Remember how you turned b1tch and acted like kid that just got an F on his test? It's right there in type for anyone to read. I gave you a chance and you decided to pull the proverbial b1tch moves. After that you can be certain I'll never treat you as anything other than an ignorant fvck that needs slapping. You made your bed now lay in it :bottle:

Poet

studentofthegam
05-28-2011, 12:58 AM
I got better idea: How bouts you slither out this section and go back to NSB before another reg makes you look like a fool.....something that happens every time you try and "debate" one. Remember I tried to have an "adult" conversation with you? Remember how you turned b1tch and acted like kid that just got an F on his test? It's right there in type for anyone to read. I gave you a chance and you decided to pull the proverbial b1tch moves. After that you can be certain I'll never treat you as anything other than an ignorant fvck that needs slapping. You made your bed now lay in it :bottle:

PoetAll I remember is you bringing up Bobick like it was some priceless piece of information and the rest was irrelevant fluff. Like I said then. Like I said to your buds that tried to defend you. And the same sh*t thats going on right now. You cant run me anywhere boy. Its a computer screen. Please try to focus on that small bit of information. B8tch move? Coming from a guy who uses ignore. I dont use ignore nor do I use Red K's. You know how grown men in touch with reality do things or maybe not.

JAB5239
05-28-2011, 08:52 AM
I agree with this somewhat. Hearns was a big dude so that is his number 1 advantage. Then his jab was fierce and his right straight was deadly. Basically I think he would follow ODLH's game plan but try to ice Floyd with the right hand more often.

The thing is, Floyd may be able to figure out such a linear game plan with relative ease(2-3rnds max). He figured ODLH's game plan but was never threatened so he let ODLH continue with jabbing at his shoulder.

With Hearns I think Floyd will watch for the right straight more so than lean agaisnt the ropes like he did with ODLH. Then probably slip into the angles and one-shot him like he did with Corrales(taller guy similarity).

So, end result imo is Hearns by shocking kayo if it's a 15er or Floyd by decision if it's a 12er.

I disagree bro. You gotta remember that Hearns was a vicious body puncher and would bring Floyds hands down, especially if he tried staying on the ropes like he often did with Oscar. Floyd is a tough kid and would probably find a way to survive, but he'd be in defensive mode and take a serious beating. You can't beat Hearns by pot shotting him, you have to bull him around. I just can't see Floyd doing that.

Ziggy Stardust
05-28-2011, 11:54 AM
All I remember is you bringing up Bobick like it was some priceless piece of information and the rest was irrelevant fluff. Like I said then. Like I said to your buds that tried to defend you. And the same sh*t thats going on right now. You cant run me anywhere boy. Its a computer screen. Please try to focus on that small bit of information. B8tch move? Coming from a guy who uses ignore. I dont use ignore nor do I use Red K's. You know how grown men in touch with reality do things or maybe not.

In theory grown men don't continuously display their ignorance on the internet the way you do.....but you still do it. And btw, there's a diverence between irrelivent and someone lacking the basic brain power to comprehend. In the case of the Bobick example it's a rock solid case of you displaying the latter.

Poet

joseph5620
05-28-2011, 12:24 PM
I disagree bro. You gotta remember that Hearns was a vicious body puncher and would bring Floyds hands down, especially if he tried staying on the ropes like he often did with Oscar. Floyd is a tough kid and would probably find a way to survive, but he'd be in defensive mode and take a serious beating. You can't beat Hearns by pot shotting him, you have to bull him around. I just can't see Floyd doing that.








This is how I see it going too. I'm a strong admirer of Mayweather's skills but I also know how good and complete Hearns was at welterweight. Hearns could take you out with one shot either to the head or body. Or he could pick you apart with his jab from the outside. It took Sugar Ray Leonard to beat him there and he was thoroughly outboxing Leonard.




There has not been a welterweight since Leonard that I would pick over Hearns at 147.




This is one of my favorite Hearns fight that you raerely hear about or see. This is some of the best body punching you'll ever see.


<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/779oevnc3xM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Barn
05-28-2011, 02:25 PM
You really think you're some kind of genius history judge and jury? You admit this. As long as everybody agrees to jock the same guy its cool right. And anybody who defends Floyd against any great fighter before the year 1998 is not worthy of an opinion. If I said Hagler gives SRR a run for his money some would disagree but we could still have a sensible conversation. But If I were to say Floyd could win 4 rounds against Hearns its the ultimate sin? Can you just voluntarily ignore me from now on? And I'll do the same "Oh Great One"?LoL. Damn 12 year old kid.

That's very probable in my opinion.

studentofthegam
05-28-2011, 03:05 PM
That's very probable in my opinion.I definitely think its possible.

Barn
05-28-2011, 04:37 PM
I definitely think its possible.
People get mesmerised by the WW Sugar Ray Robinson but, tend to forget the MW version wasn't exactly unbeatable, especially facing ATG's such as Hagler or Monzon.

young_robbed
05-28-2011, 04:47 PM
Yeah I'd pick Mayweather over Arguello.

RubenSonny
05-28-2011, 04:48 PM
People get mesmerised by the WW Sugar Ray Robinson but, tend to forget the MW version wasn't exactly unbeatable, especially facing ATG's such as Hagler or Monzon.

True, I'd favor a few middleweights in the first meeting....:)

studentofthegam
05-28-2011, 04:59 PM
Yeah I'd pick Mayweather over Arguello.Most say Arguello. And thats where it usually ends. What do we really think of Arguello is the question.

joseph5620
05-28-2011, 05:03 PM
Most say Arguello. And thats where it usually ends. What do we really think of Arguello is the question.






I would pick Mayweather over Arguello. But not Hearns.

young_robbed
05-28-2011, 05:19 PM
Most say Arguello. And thats where it usually ends. What do we really think of Arguello is the question.

Well if you pick Arguello then you're assuming that Arguello lands consistently on Floyd. I don't see it happening. I think Floyd takes away the jab and doesn't allow Arguello to set up.

Barn
05-28-2011, 06:10 PM
True, I'd favor a few middleweights in the first meeting....:)
Hagler and Monzon weren't exactly slouches in re-matches.

studentofthegam
05-28-2011, 06:27 PM
Well if you pick Arguello then you're assuming that Arguello lands consistently on Floyd. I don't see it happening. I think Floyd takes away the jab and doesn't allow Arguello to set up.

When it comes to Arguello I sincerly believe people fell in love with the man he was and really dont analyze his boxing. I see Arguello as having above average power, a big heart and very little ability to adapt in the ring. A much greater man than a boxer. I guess thats why it doesnt hold much weight to pick a fighter as a favorite over him. Thats got to be the reason it rolls off peoples tongue so easily when it comes to Mayweather.