View Full Version : A question to those who were following boxing for at least 15 years...


TintaBoricua
05-22-2011, 12:53 PM
First off, it's me again with another question regarding perceptions and thoughts going into another megafight from the past. I wasn't following boxing as I started in late 2006, but having become enamored with the sport, and given Hopkins' recent win, here is my question:


In 2001, when Hopkins and Trinidad faced off to compete for the undisputed middleweight title, what were your thoughts on the fight? How was it perceived by the general media (or the experts) on how it would play out? I was only 15 at the time, and the only thing I can recall was my mother (a huge Tito fan) saying that Tito was going to get thrashed because Hopkins was a "prison man." I can't remember what my father had to say prior to the fight, though I should've paid attention because he was an avid follower of the sport, and still is. Another thing I can recall from the day of the fight was my parents in the other room and my mom going "Ayyyyy, Titooooooooo..." during the fight. That's the only thing I can remember. :rofl:

Were there any Hopkins fans here? Did anybody believe he would stick around for any longer. Looking back on it, either his victory over Trinidad or last night's victory were probably his biggest WINS to date (not accomplishments, WINS), though feel free to disagree.

I just would like to hear some stories and anecdotes coming into this fight and/or reactions when Hopkins knocked out Trinidad. I mean, I can appreciate and comprehend how big that was, but it's a shame I wasn't around to follow the sport, that would've probably been one of those spine-tingling moments for me, considering Tito was a young, undefeated, power-punching fighter in Madison Square Garden with a legion of followers...and he gets outboxed, embarrassed, outgunned, and mauled for 11 rounds...and then to punctuate it, Hopkins knocks him out in the last round for an incredible last round KO...and the guy is 35, where in many cases a boxer at this age is on his way out or way past it. Un-freaking-believable...and he is STILL around.

This is the kind of stuff that you'd get lynched for if you had predicted it back in 2000 way before Hopkins came into the spotlight...

Boxing Bob
05-22-2011, 01:09 PM
going into the fight Trinidad was on a undefeated and on a tear. Don King had put together a middleweight tournament designed to make Tito the king of that class. Originally BHop wasn't even invited. But magically he signed with King and he was in. Hopkins beat Kieth Holmes to add the WBC belt to the IBF belt he already had. Titi destroyed Joppy for the WBA belt and the match was set. In one of the press conferences, Hopkins ripped a Puerto Rican flagges from Titos hand and stomped on it. Lotsa bad blood going into the fight. Tito was the heavy favorite. I remember thinking at the referees instruction, I can't remember anyone looking straight accross at Tito. I thought the fight was very one sided,and it seemed like Tito fought his tipical fight, but Hopkins had an answer for everything he had. The pro Tito crowd seemed to steadily dye down as Hopkins raked him with good shots from the 6th to the bell. It was one of those fights that made you think, if these guys fought 10 times, Hopkins would win them all. And I was a huge Tito fan then!

SCtrojansbaby
05-22-2011, 01:41 PM
I think most hardcore fans knew Hopkins should of been the favorite. I think asking ANY former welterweight to be competitive against B-Hop in there 2nd fight at middleweight is simply to much to ask.

oc9979
05-22-2011, 01:49 PM
I think most hardcore fans knew Hopkins should of been the favorite. I think asking ANY former welterweight to be competitive against B-Hop in there 2nd fight at middleweight is simply to much to ask.

I agree with you.

JAB5239
05-22-2011, 02:02 PM
I think most hardcore fans knew Hopkins should of been the favorite. I think asking ANY former welterweight to be competitive against B-Hop in there 2nd fight at middleweight is simply to much to ask.

By destroying Joppy, Trinidad proved himself as capable a middleweight as any at the time.

IronDanHamza
05-22-2011, 02:05 PM
Tito looked impressive against Joppy. That made alot of people believe he could hang with Hopkins at Middleweight and size wouldn't be a factor. They were wrong.

At the time, people weren't really aware what Bernard Hopkins was capable of. Tito was already known well for his brutal KO power.

The fight with Tito really defined Hopkins career. It made everyone step up and realise that this guy is a great fighter.

Tito was the betting favourite but alot of people could see it was a bad style match up but the same has occured over and over again with Bernard. They keep making him the underdog for some reason.

fitefanSHO
05-22-2011, 02:35 PM
As I recall, there was ALOT going on in the world at that time which took my attention off of boxing but in the buildup to that fight, I remember there being a general belief that Trinidad was going to win and assert himself as the best middleweight in the world. Hopkins at that point, was not nearly as appreciated as he is today, I think some people even wanted to see him lose so that maybe he would go away. Didn't work out that way tho, I always thought Trinidad was a tad overrated, and I thought Hopkins would outpoint him, the KO was a surprise to me.

joseph5620
05-22-2011, 02:51 PM
By destroying Joppy, Trinidad proved himself as capable a middleweight as any at the time.






It's funny how so many people overlook that. I can remember a lot of people picking Trinidad too. He was the favorite and unbeaten at that time.

The Surgeon
05-22-2011, 03:54 PM
I was just away to turn 16 but was already a big fan and a HUGE Tito fan, i was seriously worried for him but then i always was i even thought Joppy might beat him! Totally gutted but not surprised, at least not totally surprised anyway. Trinidad was a monster but he came up against a big strong MIDDLEWEIGHT who happened to fight the fight of his hall of fame career that night, it was a victory in its self that skinny Trinidad went as far as he did on hindsight, Felix has mad heart.

New England
05-23-2011, 09:16 PM
going into the fight Trinidad was on a undefeated and on a tear. Don King had put together a middleweight tournament designed to make Tito the king of that class. Originally BHop wasn't even invited. But magically he signed with King and he was in. Hopkins beat Kieth Holmes to add the WBC belt to the IBF belt he already had. Titi destroyed Joppy for the WBA belt and the match was set. In one of the press conferences, Hopkins ripped a Puerto Rican flagges from Titos hand and stomped on it. Lotsa bad blood going into the fight. Tito was the heavy favorite. I remember thinking at the referees instruction, I can't remember anyone looking straight accross at Tito. I thought the fight was very one sided,and it seemed like Tito fought his tipical fight, but Hopkins had an answer for everything he had. The pro Tito crowd seemed to steadily dye down as Hopkins raked him with good shots from the 6th to the bell. It was one of those fights that made you think, if these guys fought 10 times, Hopkins would win them all. And I was a huge Tito fan then!


this about sums it up


if they fought 10 times hopkins would win a dozen


bernard was a three or four to one dog
tito was at the height of his powers and was supposed to dethrone bernard and start making some serious cash with don king (bernard was never a huge draw on the tele or in the box office because of his style and lack of flair, and tito was supposed to take over)


people had been writing him off since before trinidad
wild as that seems

then he fought some mo dudes, including joppy, de la hoya , and beastman eastman, before losing to Jermain taylor in '05 in the summer



if you had told me that bernard would outlast taylor in '05 i would have advised you to get checked out by a doctor


and here we are

Scott9945
05-23-2011, 09:57 PM
It's funny how so many people overlook that. I can remember a lot of people picking Trinidad too. He was the favorite and unbeaten at that time.

I'm pretty sure he was rated just behind Roy Jones on most P4P lists when the fight was made. It was a legitimate upset when Hopkins won so dominantly.

Holtol
05-24-2011, 12:31 AM
I favored Hopkins in the fight for sure. Part of it was likely the way Oscar was able to out box Trinadad. Not a big fan of Hopkins but I have allways had a lot of respect for his ability to win fights.

bojangles1987
05-24-2011, 06:21 AM
SO many people picked Trinidad. I wasn't as hardcore a fan as now, but I remember that because it was supposed to be Tito's crowning achievement to top his career off. People were shocked when Hopkins beat his ass.

Looking back, we all should have known.

studentofthegam
05-24-2011, 10:07 AM
By destroying Joppy, Trinidad proved himself as capable a middleweight as any at the time.Trinidad should have never tried to carry that weight. He looked much much slower. If you think beating Joppy was huge then........WoW just Wow. Joppy was a puppet to make Tito look good.


I do remember a lot of people picking Trinidad and I thought "Yall must be out of your damn mind". Trinidad, to me was just a good fighter not a great one. The severe overrating had me laughing my ass off when he took the fight with BHop. Tito was never great against guys with good D. Throw in the size and I had Hopkin blowing him out just like he did.

IronDanHamza
05-24-2011, 11:53 AM
Trinidad should have never tried to carry that weight. He looked much much slower. If you think beating Joppy was huge then........WoW just Wow. Joppy was a puppet to make Tito look good.

You mean dismantling the #2 ranked Middleweight wasn't impressive to you?


I do remember a lot of people picking Trinidad and I thought "Yall must be out of your damn mind". Trinidad, to me was just a good fighter not a great one. The severe overrating had me laughing my ass off when he took the fight with BHop. Tito was never great against guys with good D. Throw in the size and I had Hopkin blowing him out just like he did.

In hindsight maybe, but at the time, no one expected Tito to get walked over like he did. Even with the vast size and skill disadvantage.

Tito was vastly more hyped than Hopkins was.

madmadworld
05-24-2011, 12:29 PM
nice thread
with good comments
was Hopkins fan long before this fight and wanted him to win and did he ever deliver.

JAB5239
05-24-2011, 05:44 PM
Trinidad should have never tried to carry that weight. He looked much much slower. If you think beating Joppy was huge then........WoW just Wow. Joppy was a puppet to make Tito look good.


I do remember a lot of people picking Trinidad and I thought "Yall must be out of your damn mind". Trinidad, to me was just a good fighter not a great one. The severe overrating had me laughing my ass off when he took the fight with BHop. Tito was never great against guys with good D. Throw in the size and I had Hopkin blowing him out just like he did.

Joppy was the second best fighter in the division, so the win WAS meaningful. I never said it was huge though, only that he "proved himself as capable a middleweight as any at the time."

Boxing Bob
05-24-2011, 06:16 PM
let me get this ***** straight, Tito was a 4-1 favorite but everyone who reads this post knew Hopkins was going to win? BS! Almost every boxing fan(me included) though Tito was gonna whip his ass.

Scott9945
05-24-2011, 08:59 PM
let me get this ***** straight, Tito was a 4-1 favorite but everyone who reads this post knew Hopkins was going to win? BS! Almost every boxing fan(me included) though Tito was gonna whip his ass.

Thanks for telling the truth. It's just like all the people who supposedly knew that Calzaghe would beat Lacy and Barrera would beat Hamed. Fight results like this serve as a lesson on how to pick winners.

CarlosG815
05-24-2011, 09:02 PM
Thanks for telling the truth. It's just like all the people who supposedly knew that Calzaghe would beat Lacy and Barrera would beat Hamed. Fight results like this serve as a lesson on how to pick winners.

Without question I knew that Barrera was going to beat Hamed. Without a doubt. My uncle and I watched that fight and leading up to it we had zero doubts that he would win.

I am having a hard time remembering but wasn't Barrera being picked by most boxing analysts?

Scott9945
05-24-2011, 10:13 PM
Without question I knew that Barrera was going to beat Hamed. Without a doubt. My uncle and I watched that fight and leading up to it we had zero doubts that he would win.

I am having a hard time remembering but wasn't Barrera being picked by most boxing analysts?


Some boxing people definitely picked Barrera, but I doubt it was most. I am sure that he was a solid 3-1 underdog going in, so clearly more people were picking Hamed. Unbeaten fighters are almost always overbet.

Ziggy Stardust
05-24-2011, 10:47 PM
let me get this ***** straight, Tito was a 4-1 favorite but everyone who reads this post knew Hopkins was going to win? BS! Almost every boxing fan(me included) though Tito was gonna whip his ass.

Casual fans always overrate punchers. I know better that. I picked Hopkins and I made sure the 'Ricans I worked with at the time ate a TON of crow. Put a one dimensional big puncher in against an equally talented all-around fighter an I'll take the all-around fighter every trip of the train. And if you didn't think Hopkins was at LEAST equal to Tito in talent than you weren't following Hopkins too closely back then.

Poet

El Jesus
05-24-2011, 11:47 PM
this one is tough, shortly after this fight was delayed i was deployed to afgahnistan. i didint get to see the fight. i had just joined the military.

ill be honest, i only remembered hopkins for having lost to roy jones and also having been a little old to me at the time, i figured titos youth and power would overcome hopkins press conference antics.

i didint see the fight until about 2004 sadly. when i found out tito was knocked out i was shocked. i couldnt believe it to be honest. at this time though, i wasnt really into middleweight though, i was more into what was going on at lightweight and welter and below. 2001 was a decent time for those divisions, so hopkins title reign meant little to me.

either way i wont lie, i was nothing less than shocked when i found out via phonecall.

El Jesus
05-24-2011, 11:48 PM
Some boxing people definitely picked Barrera, but I doubt it was most. I am sure that he was a solid 3-1 underdog going in, so clearly more people were picking Hamed. Unbeaten fighters are almost always overbet.

i had naseem beating barrera because i didint think much of barrera at the time and i also thought he was just a step away from being shot since i constantly saw him going to war. i didint see how barreras chin would stand up to hamed.

yes i was wrong.

studentofthegam
05-25-2011, 10:08 AM
You mean dismantling the #2 ranked Middleweight wasn't impressive to you?




In hindsight maybe, but at the time, no one expected Tito to get walked over like he did. Even with the vast size and skill disadvantage.

Tito was vastly more hyped than Hopkins was.I never thought much of Tito and still dont. Im just telling you what I thought at the time.
Damn I cant be right because you took the same POV of the people that were calling me crazy back then. I expected an ass whoopin and Hopkins delivered. And Joppy was never above par.

IronDanHamza
05-25-2011, 11:33 AM
I never thought much of Tito and still dont. Im just telling you what I thought at the time.
Damn I cant be right because you took the same POV of the people that were calling me crazy back then. I expected an ass whoopin and Hopkins delivered. And Joppy was never above par.

Tito was never going to do well with a fighter like Hopkins, especially with the size advantage. That's apparent now, but at the time, we weren't really aware that Hopkins was that good.

Joppy wasn't the best Middleweight in the world but he had held his Top 5 slot for quite a while and no one ever dismantled him like Tito did. Which made it clear Tito was more than a capable Middleweight. That's all.

Bushbaby
05-26-2011, 11:09 PM
Tito was favored to win.He was also supposed to unify 160,become undisputed & move up in weight to face Roy Jones for pfp supremacy.B-Hop & about 10% of boxing fans didn't feel that way.

TintaBoricua
05-30-2011, 06:35 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed reading all your posts, guys.

I wish I had money to buy ring magazines and read experts' picks at the time and see what they had to say after huge upsets.

I've been getting a little fix going over to ESPN and reading post-fight articles where upsets occurred. I just remembered that I should check out what analysts had to say after Calzaghe beat Lacy silly.

La_Vibora
05-31-2011, 12:17 PM
Yes Tito was definitely the big time favorite at that time, especially after the way he destroyed Joppy. I remember as a Tito fan that I wanted him to avoid B-Hop at all cost, I told people that it would basically be a duplicate of Tyson-Holyfield and that Hopkins wasn't going to allow him to land any big shots. At that time there was talk about him fighting Joppy then going on to fight Roy Jones and then retire. I was hoping that he would stick to that plan as it would have been a win-win scenario for him. If he had by some miracle won, he would have been put up there with Ray Robinson as he fought pretty much all the best fighters of that era at the time, while if he lost as expected then no one would have criticized him as he wasn't suppose to win that fight anyway and would have gotten alot of credit for just taking the fight. Interesting to think how different his legacy would have been.

IMDAZED
05-31-2011, 01:28 PM
Tito was never going to do well with a fighter like Hopkins, especially with the size advantage. That's apparent now, but at the time, we weren't really aware that Hopkins was that good.

Joppy wasn't the best Middleweight in the world but he had held his Top 5 slot for quite a while and no one ever dismantled him like Tito did. Which made it clear Tito was more than a capable Middleweight. That's all.

Agreed. Joppy was considered the second best welter at the time and I think that ranking was right. The way Tito dismantled him was shocking. And I was a big Tito fan. I picked Tito to win going into the Hopkins fight. It took me about eight rounds to realize what was going on. Up until then, I was still waiting for Tito to land that one punch to turn it around. By the ninth, I was in awe. Not a fan of Bernard but that is one fight I watch over and over. Such a masterful performance.

studentofthegam
06-01-2011, 09:14 AM
Agreed. Joppy was considered the second best welter at the time and I think that ranking was right. The way Tito dismantled him was shocking. And I was a big Tito fan. I picked Tito to win going into the Hopkins fight. It took me about eight rounds to realize what was going on. Up until then, I was still waiting for Tito to land that one punch to turn it around. By the ninth, I was in awe. Not a fan of Bernard but that is one fight I watch over and over. Such a masterful performance.Fellas we gotta be consistent. Now yall are playing with the numbers to fit the argument. How good was Joppy really? I never hear about Joppy in the tough opponent category except when it has to do with Tito. Joppy was a product of a par at best division and thats also the same thing that holds Bernard from the elites in boxing history with his historic defenses.

New England
06-01-2011, 09:48 AM
Fellas we gotta be consistent. Now yall are playing with the numbers to fit the argument. How good was Joppy really? I never hear about Joppy in the tough opponent category except when it has to do with Tito. Joppy was a product of a par at best division and thats also the same thing that holds Bernard from the elites in boxing history with his historic defenses.


the fact remains that he was considered one of the best mw's around at the time and he earned it


he was a solid professional fighter and a real MW. he never weighed much less than 160 throughout his career. he could punch

he beat the only guy who had beat him at the time, twice, once via stoppage.
he held a world title and over the course made many defenses against guys who obviously weren't of a historic tier, but earned shots at world titles.


he's a solid win, at any rate
not many longtime WW's would be able to dispatch of him in 5 rounds

tito was a special offensive talent



and since when is bernard hopkins not a historic elite?

IMDAZED
06-01-2011, 11:08 AM
Fellas we gotta be consistent. Now yall are playing with the numbers to fit the argument. How good was Joppy really? I never hear about Joppy in the tough opponent category except when it has to do with Tito. Joppy was a product of a par at best division and thats also the same thing that holds Bernard from the elites in boxing history with his historic defenses.

Huh? Regardless, Joppy was considered the #2 MW in the world.

bojangles1987
06-01-2011, 12:36 PM
Fellas we gotta be consistent. Now yall are playing with the numbers to fit the argument. How good was Joppy really? I never hear about Joppy in the tough opponent category except when it has to do with Tito. Joppy was a product of a par at best division and thats also the same thing that holds Bernard from the elites in boxing history with his historic defenses.

Still, he was at the very least a top flight middleweight that had never been utterly destroyed like that. It proved Tito was a capable middleweight. Not like Tito was blown up and unproven, if not for Hopkins Trinidad ends up the undisputed middleweight champion.

studentofthegam
06-01-2011, 04:58 PM
the fact remains that he was considered one of the best mw's around at the time and he earned it


he was a solid professional fighter and a real MW. he never weighed much less than 160 throughout his career. he could punch

he beat the only guy who had beat him at the time, twice, once via stoppage.
he held a world title and over the course made many defenses against guys who obviously weren't of a historic tier, but earned shots at world titles.


he's a solid win, at any rate
not many longtime WW's would be able to dispatch of him in 5 rounds

tito was a special offensive talent



and since when is bernard hopkins not a historic elite?What Im saying is with Hopkins' track record he should be atleast top 5 all time. Years of reign and 20 straight defenses and now the oldest champion in history. Im willing to bet he's not in any of your top 10 all time. Why? Because of a lack luster division in which he dominated. I dont know guys. I just remember thinking that people were just getting lost in the hype then and even more now.

IronDanHamza
06-02-2011, 10:52 AM
What Im saying is with Hopkins' track record he should be atleast top 5 all time. Years of reign and 20 straight defenses and now the oldest champion in history. Im willing to bet he's not in any of your top 10 all time. Why? Because of a lack luster division in which he dominated. I dont know guys. I just remember thinking that people were just getting lost in the hype then and even more now.

I'm not sure where you're lost but all we're saying is Tito proved he was a cpapable Middleweight by beating the #2 ranked Middleweight in very impressive fashion.

And was an excellent win for Hopkins.

That's all.